2487 - Economy Shrinks In Trump's First 100 Days; GOP War on Social Security w/ Martin O'Malley

Summary

Episode Summary: The Majority Report with Sam Seder - Episode 2487

Title: Economy Shrinks In Trump's First 100 Days; GOP War on Social Security w/ Martin O'Malley
Host: Sam Seder
Guest: Martin O'Malley, Former Social Security Commissioner under President Biden, Former Governor of Maryland, and Former Mayor of Baltimore
Release Date: April 30, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 2487 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder, host Sam Seder delves into the troubling economic indicators emerging during President Donald Trump's first 100 days in office and examines the Republican Party's concerted efforts to undermine Social Security. The episode features an in-depth conversation with Martin O'Malley, a seasoned political figure and former commissioner of the Social Security Administration under President Biden.

Economic Downturn Under the Trump Administration

Sam Seder opens the episode by highlighting the stark economic challenges faced during the initial phase of Trump's presidency. The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) has experienced negative growth for the first time since the COVID-19 pandemic, signaling a potential recession on the horizon.

"Congratulations. The GDP hits negative growth for the first time since COVID the degrowth president. We are halfway to that Trump recession."
[00:19] Sam Seder

This economic contraction is attributed to several factors, including Trump’s convoluted approach to tariffs, especially those affecting the automotive industry. Despite initial promises, the administration's backtracking on tariffs has left manufacturers and the broader economy in a state of uncertainty.

GOP's Assault on Social Security

The core of the episode centers on the Republican Party's aggressive moves to dismantle Social Security, a cornerstone of American social safety nets. Martin O'Malley provides expert insights into the multifaceted attacks aimed at the program.

Staffing Cuts and System Strain

O'Malley details how the GOP has significantly reduced staffing within the Social Security Administration (SSA), leading to deteriorating service metrics and operational inefficiencies.

"Congress, particularly House Republicans, had reduced Social Security staffing to a 50 year low even as baby boomers like me swelled the ranks of their beneficiary customers to a new all time high every day."
[24:19] Martin O'Malley

These cuts have resulted in longer wait times for beneficiaries, both those applying for retirement benefits and those seeking disability insurance. The reduction in personnel hampers the SSA's ability to process benefits efficiently, exacerbating the socioeconomic impact on seniors and their families.

False Claims of Fraud and Waste

A significant part of the GOP's strategy involves propagating misinformation about Social Security. O'Malley dismantles these claims, emphasizing that allegations of rampant fraud are unfounded.

"Elon Musk said famously... he did with Fox News... 40% of everybody who calls Social Security is a fraudster. Total, complete lie."
[41:07] Martin O'Malley

He further explains that improper payments constitute less than half a percent of total disbursements, debunking the notion that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Instead, these alleged fraudulent activities are minimal and do not threaten the program's financial stability.

Potential Financial Insolvency

O'Malley warns of the looming threat of Social Security's insolvency, primarily driven by tax code changes that limit contributions from higher earners. Since 1983, the cap on taxable income has remained stagnant, now excluding a significant portion of the wealthy from contributing to the system.

"In 1983, it was 90% of the nation's income was touched by the Social Security tax. And today it's closer to 84%. That difference is why it's being depleted 15 years earlier than they had thought."
[33:14] Martin O'Malley

This reduction in the taxable base accelerates the depletion of Social Security's trust fund, pushing the date of potential insolvency up by 15 years. O'Malley underscores the urgency of addressing income inequality and adjusting the tax cap to ensure the program's longevity.

Legislative Attempts to Undermine Social Security

The GOP has introduced several legislative measures aimed at weakening Social Security, including attempts to repeal student loan repayment plans and impose restrictive work requirements for Medicaid recipients. These actions not only jeopardize the financial foundation of Social Security but also disproportionately affect vulnerable populations.

"This is insanity. It's absolute insanity. It's insanity that they are publicly showing us this is what they think is sufficient."
[10:57] Sam Seder

O'Malley criticizes these legislative maneuvers as shortsighted and detrimental to the well-being of millions of Americans relying on Social Security for their livelihood.

Consequences and Public Impact

The dismantling of Social Security poses severe consequences for current and future beneficiaries. O'Malley highlights how reduced staffing and administrative inefficiencies could lead to delayed or interrupted benefits, pushing more seniors into poverty and increasing the financial burden on younger generations.

"If they liquidate it, you're the ones that lose because the people currently getting benefits, they're getting the benefits. But if you've been paying in for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, kiss that goodbye."
[61:16] Martin O'Malley

The public's trust in Social Security is further eroded by these GOP tactics, potentially leading to widespread disenchantment with the political process and decreased voter turnout among affected demographics.

Steps Forward and Conclusions

In wrapping up the discussion, O'Malley calls for immediate action to protect and fortify Social Security. He advocates for legislative reforms to remove the taxable income cap, ensuring that higher earners contribute a fair share to the system. Additionally, he urges the public to stay informed and actively participate in the political process to safeguard their benefits.

"This is a people moment... People need to call their congresspeople, whether they're Democrats, Republicans or senators, Democrats, Republicans, and they need to call the White House because what our members need to see is a rising level of people that are rightly outraged and concerned."
[58:25] Martin O'Malley

Sam Seder echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the critical role of public advocacy in countering the GOP's assault on Social Security.

Conclusion

Episode 2487 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder provides a comprehensive analysis of the economic downturn under President Trump and the Republican Party's strategic attacks on Social Security. Through the knowledgeable insights of Martin O'Malley, listeners gain a clear understanding of the challenges facing Social Security and the urgent need for legislative and public action to preserve this vital institution. The episode serves as a compelling call to action, urging Americans to stand against policies that threaten their financial security.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sam Seder [00:19]: "Congratulations. The GDP hits negative growth for the first time since COVID the degrowth president."

• Martin O'Malley [24:19]: "Congress, particularly House Republicans, had reduced Social Security staffing to a 50 year low even as baby boomers like me swelled the ranks of their beneficiary customers to a new all time high every day."

• Martin O'Malley [41:07]: "Elon Musk said famously... he did with Fox News... 40% of everybody who calls Social Security is a fraudster. Total, complete lie."

• Sam Seder [10:57]: "This is insanity. It's absolute insanity. It's insanity that they are publicly showing us this is what they think is sufficient."

• Martin O'Malley [61:16]: "If they liquidate it, you're the ones that lose because the people currently getting benefits, they're getting the benefits. But if you've been paying in for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, kiss that goodbye."

• Martin O'Malley [58:25]: "This is a people moment... People need to call their congresspeople... and they need to call the White House because what our members need to see is a rising level of people that are rightly outraged and concerned."

Additional Resources

For more information on Social Security and ways to get involved, listeners are encouraged to visit Majority.FM and follow ongoing discussions on The Majority Report platforms.

Transcript

[Sam Cedar]

You are listening to a free version of Majority Report with Sam Steder. To support the show and get another 15 minutes of daily program, go to majority SM please.

[Emma Vigeland]

The majority Report with Sam Cedar.

[Sam Cedar]

It is Wednesday, April 30, 2025. My name is Sam Cedar. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, Downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today, Martin O'Malley, former Social Security commissioner under President Biden. As a former governor of Maryland, perhaps one of the candidates who could have won in 2016. And no, it's not my birthday just because he's on. It is day 101, although there's I guess some controversy is day 100, day 101 of Donald Trump's administration. And congratulations. The GDP hits negative growth for the first time since COVID the degrowth president. We are halfway to that Trump recession. Meanwhile, Trump backtracks on tariffs for carmakers in the most convoluted way possible. Good news. Federal judge in Vermont freeze. Mohsen Madawi, one of the Colombia students who was arrested because of his pro Palestine protest. He was the one who went for his citizenship tester application and and was arrested there. Trump falls on his face as Kilmar Abrego Garcia's tattoos are explained to him. House Republicans set to repeal six student loan repo replayment plans, potentially adding hundreds of billions of dollars to student debt. And the latest Republican scheme to cut Medicaid for their billionaire tax giveaway. Pretend work requirements are not cuts. With 100 new measles cases over the past week. RFK Jr tells parents do your own research. U.S. postal Service now spying on Americans in search of potential undocumented immigrants. Senate Republicans in a push to pass anti Semitism awareness act added a religious exemption to antisemitism. It's okay if you're a Christian. Twitter lost 11 million EU you in the past five months and Trump flouts his violating of the Supreme Court. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome ladies and gentlemen. Emma's out today. Got a lot to get to. Just got an image saying apparently Hakeem Jeffries is reportedly trying to stop members from visiting El Salvador. Fascinating.

[Matt Binder]

But he will rap with Cory Booker on the steps of Congress about, you know, civil rights leaders gone by. It's it those words should turn to ashes and people like his mouth.

[Sam Cedar]

It's, it's amazing that the irony is not. It's just amazing how wed they are. This is off topic but The James Carvel piece when he wrote a couple of months ago, do nothing because it'll help Democrats. It was. Dave Weigel had tweeted out that he had reread it. Maybe this, I don't know, last week, I can't remember. But Carvel completely ignored the Wisconsin Supreme Court race in his assessment of important races that were coming up for Democrats. It's so blinkered. It is so backwards. We have a clip of Stephen lynch, who is, you know, threw his name in for the. For Gerry Connolly's now vacated position as Chair of House Oversight and. Or I should say minority Leader of House Oversight, where he is admonishing a voter who's saying, like, you're not doing enough. And he's like, I'll do it. I get to say what I'll do. We'll play that clip later.

[Matt Binder]

Just one note, since you brought up James Carville. He helped. Palantir might have heard of it. Peter Thiel's surveillance company come in undercover of night with a multimillion dollar contract in New Orleans. Critics believe the program was kept secret because American Southerners value their privacy and would have inspired backlash.

[Sam Cedar]

And guys gotta eat.

[Matt Binder]

He was leaving.

[Emma Vigeland]

Guys gotta eat.

[Matt Binder]

And we're supposed to act like he's a.

[Sam Cedar]

Come on, Matt.

[Emma Vigeland]

Come on.

[Matt Binder]

The suspension of disbelief on this.

[Sam Cedar]

Come on, man.

[Matt Binder]

I can't do it.

[Sam Cedar]

Guys gotta eat.

[Matt Binder]

I can't do it, man. That is privacy international.org can't buy that.

[Sam Cedar]

Cajun popcorn with your good looks.

[Matt Binder]

Palantir, secretive predictive policing program in New Orleans.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, okay.

[Matt Binder]

But, yeah, he's a Democrat. Let's listen to him. What he has to say about, you know, how Democrats should win.

[Sam Cedar]

What's more, I see you got an iPhone.

[Matt Binder]

Capitalism there.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. Okay, come on now. I got there. I'm just. I'm seething. I'm exhausted. And it's really just my anger that is keeping me propped up in this chair. Right.

[Matt Binder]

It's only Wednesday, too.

[Sam Cedar]

I know it. So, good news that Mohsen Madawi was released from prison. And also kudos to Ed Markey and those Democrats from Massachusetts who actually expended some energy in drawing attention to this case. The fact that Chuck Schumer is saving all of his energy to insist there's not going to be a $20 car tax. I mean, car. Car prices are going up thousands of dollars because of these tariffs.

[Emma Vigeland]

Even.

[Sam Cedar]

Even after Donald Trump's, like, backtracking and the idea that this guy's putting out of. Put up the Chuck Schumer video. I'm sorry. Is just so grotesque. It is so grotesque that when guys like Markey, Jim McGovern, where Van Holland is going down to El Salvador, Frost and a couple others Democrats in the House are going down to El Salvador. This is what we get out of Chuck Schumer. This is, this is his big production. We're going to talk to the kids by putting up this crazy video. Watch how angry I can get about a $20 car tax. A $20 car tax that was proposed by the Republic. They backed off this, but. And my guess is Schumer found out that they were already backing off it. And he's like, let's cut the video quick. Here we go. And this is one of those classic things like, this isn't made up. Wait, next time say action before the camera rolls go. Of all the crazy things the Republicans.

[Emma Vigeland]

Want to do, now they want a car tax? Hell no.

[Sam Cedar]

Of all the crazy.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's called a clap back.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, my God, Are you serious? I mean, put aside. Let's play one more time so we can mock the production of this. But the, and this is a, you know, and granted I was a professional director. You learn to say action and then what you want to do is you also, you ask the editors, hey, can we cut this so that it doesn't look like he's going from a full stop standing? Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Binder]

I'd love to see all these like TV shows where they walk and talk, where they actually start the scene from a complete stop and then have to get in motion.

[Sam Cedar]

But let's break down. I want you to just think as you hear him say these words, of all the crazy things Republicans are doing. They are imprisoning immigrants for protesting. They are getting rid of Social Security numbers for immigrants. They are separating. They're sending kids with cancer and not giving their parents an opportunity to have them stay in this country. They are assaulting every agency we have. They're trying to fire 90% of the people. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. They got the head of Health and Human Services when we're getting burgeoning measles epidemic, saying, do your own research. You've got Donald Trump last night on ABC saying, I don't care about what the Supreme Court says. I mean, on and on and on and on. And what he's saying is, of all the things that the Republicans are doing, this one, the car tax for $20 is when I'm going to say, hell no. This is insanity. This is absolute insanity. It's insanity. Not just because of what they're not doing. It's insanity that they are publicly showing us this is what they think is sufficient. The Democratic leadership is so sclerotic. It's just, it's, it's mind blowing. Go ahead, play this again. Of all the crazy things the Republicans.

[Emma Vigeland]

Want to do, now they want a car tax. Hell no.

[Sam Cedar]

Of all the crazy things the Republican. I just, it's just, I mean this is not what we were going to cover. It's just, this is so shocking. This is so shocking because somebody sat around whoever worked in his office, him, somebody, somebody thought this is how we rise to the moment. A $20 car tax.

[Matt Binder]

Twitter's gonna love this.

[Sam Cedar]

A $20 car tax. This is the one that we're going to show the real emotion on. This is the one where you're going to slam your hands together and show that you have vigor and that you're ready to fight. No more of this mealy mouth, strongly worded letter. Now we're going to do a 12 second video on the car tax. The $20 car tax. I mean, what are you just like what anybody sit down and make a list of the top 20 things that the Republicans have done in the past four months. I mean, could you even get remotely close to there right now trying to figure out how they're going to cut $800 billion out of Medicaid? This is just, it's crazy. It's crazy. This guy needs to step down. He needs to step down. Someone just wrote me, Sam, you have to understand. The Bailey's own a dozen car dealerships. Oh, I just. All right, let's talk about something more important. Donald Trump was on ABC television last night. We have a lot of clips from this, but this is the one of the ones that it's most shocking and also makes Chuck Schumer releasing a video about A$20. A proposed $20 car tax to look so ridiculous. Chuck Schumer a month and a half ago was on Chris Hayes Angley. When we get into a constitutional crisis, and the constitutional crisis, right, is when the President of the United States does not listen to the courts. Now, we've seen this over and over again in this case of Brigo Garcia. But here in what remember what the Supreme Court said, You need to get him back from El Salvador and you need to listen to the lower court saying, show us what you're doing every day because they're claiming they can't do it. And here's Donald Trump saying, oh no, I can.

[Martin O'Malley]

One man in one court order. Kilmar Abrego Garcia. He's the Salvadoran man who crossed into this country illegally, but who is under a protective order that he not be sent back to El Salvador. Your government sent him back to El Salvador and acknowledged in court that was a mistake. And now the Supreme Court has upheld an order that you must return him to facilitate his return to the United States. What are you doing to comply? Well, the lawyer that said it was a mistake was here a long time. Was not appointed by us. Should not have said that. Should not have said that. And just so you understand, the person that you're talking about, you know, you're making this person sound. This is a MS.13 gang member, a tough cookie, been in lots of skirmishes, beat the hell out of his wife, and the wife was petrified to even talk about him. Okay? This is not an innocent, wonderful gentleman from Maryland. I'm not saying he's a good guy. It's about the rule of law. The order from the Supreme Court stands. Into our country illegally. You could get him back. There's a phone on this desk.

[Sam Cedar]

I could.

[Martin O'Malley]

You could pick it up and all the power of the presidency. You could call up the president of El Salvador and say, send him back right now. And if he were the gentleman that you say he is, I would do that. But the court has ordered you to facilitate that. I'm not the one making this decision. We have lawyers that want to do this, but the buck stops. No, no, no, no. I follow the law. You want me to follow the law. If I were the president that just wanted to do anything, I'd probably keep them right where says what the law is. Listen, I was elected to take care of a problem that was. It was a unforced error that was made by a very incompetent man. A man that turned out to be incompetent that you always said was wonderful, great, genius. Right? And now you find out, all of the media, now they're saying what a mistake they made.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay? I mean, we don't need to hear the rest of this. He just said, yes, I could. I could, but I'm not going to. I mean, how much clearer can it be? How much clearer can it be? He's just admitted that not only are they doing nothing to get Gilmore Abrego Garcia back, but that he could get him back. And you got Chuck Schumer talking about a $20 gar car. This. This is the constitutional crisis. This is where the President, United States has just openly said that he is willing to defy the Supreme Court and he could he can comply easily. In a minute we're going to be Talking to Martin O'Malley, former commissioner of the Social Security administration under President Biden, also the former governor of Maryland. Couple of words from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by a Liquid iv. I really don't have to say that much about this. I drink this stuff every day. If you watch the show the it's the way I get hydrated. Summer's here. You need to stay hydrated. Frankly, in winter you need to stay hydrated. Visit liquid IV.com maximize your summer plans with sugar free hydration featuring the new raspberry lemonade hydration multiplier. Get 20% off your first order with code majority rep at checkout. Majority rep at checkout. This is great. Comes in little packets. You can travel with them. They're great for travel because you get dehydrated on the plane. Like I say, I drink a bottle or two of this every day on days when for whatever reason I forget and I leave it in the fridge or I mean that's basically it. I feel it at the end of the day. What are we, 90% water? I have no idea. I feel like I'm like 2% water. But this stuff keeps me hydrated. They got a bunch of different flavors. Acai berry, lemon, lime, pina colada. I'm super into the sugar free stuff right now. Raspberry lemonade, white peach, Rainbow Sherbert. One stick plus 16 ounces of water hydrates you better than water alone. It's powered by liv hydro science which apparently is just a optimized ratio of electrolytes, vitamins, clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. Three times the electrolytes of leading sports drink. Eight essential vitamins and nutrients always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. Get ready for summer with extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV. When you go to Liquid IV.com use the code majority rep Majority rep and check out that's 20% off your first order with code majority rep@liquid IV.com we'll put that link in the podcast and YouTube descriptions. Also these days you got the government trying to sell your data. Now with Donald Trump. Tech companies want to know everything about you. You got shadowy data brokers making a that are compiling detailed profiles of you on of your online activity, selling it to marketers, other corporate interests. They're not selling a product. They are of course selling you. But you don't have to let them. There's a way to keep your browsing history truly private, and I use it every day. It's an app called ExpressVPN. Want to thank ExpressVPN for supporting the majority report? Here's the deal. Visit expressvpn.com/majority. You get an extra four months free. The easiest way, or one of the easiest ways for data brokers to track is through your IP address, which of course, also reveals information about Your location. With ExpressVPN, your IP address is hidden. It makes it much more difficult for data brokers to monitor, track, and monetize your private online activity. And for me, the big thing is that ExpressVPN also encrypts 100% of your network traffic, keeps your data safe from hackers. When you're on public WI fi, I use it now. I just use it all the time because sometimes you walk around, you get connected to a public WI fi, you don't even realize it. But certainly, you know, like when I'm in airports, malls, wherever it is, it works on all your devices. Phones, laptops, tablets, more. Just one tap, one tap of a button and you're on. You're protected. Super easy to use. Get the habit of doing it. And that way you stay private, you stay secure. Protect your online privacy today by visiting expressvpn.com majority. That's E X P R E-S S vpn.com majority. You get an extra four months free. Expressvpn.com majority all right, quick break. When we come back, Martin O'Malley, former Social Security commissioner under President Biden. We'll be right back. We are back. Sam Cedar on the majority part. Emma Viglin is out today. Any person who has watched this show probably more than once over the past 20 years knows how excited I must be today to talk to the former commissioner of Social Security, also, of course, former governor of Maryland and former mayor of Baltimore, Martin O'Malley. It's a pleasure to have you on the program.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hey, thank you. Good to be with you.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's start with, you know, just backing up. I mean, give folks a sense. Social Security started in 1936, and essentially we had at that time somewhere between 70% and 90% of our seniors were living in poverty. Today, that number is 10%. And those are people who more often than not will have just not earned enough over the course of their careers under Social Security to be kept out of poverty. Today, it keeps nearly 40% of our seniors out of poverty.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's right.

[Sam Cedar]

And obviously, if you go up to 133%, 140% of poverty. And it also keeps people my age from having to bail out their parents in Social Security. So just give us a sense of like, of, of, of the staffing over the years. I mean in the administration of Social Security, what has the history of that been like?

[Emma Vigeland]

Sure, the. Well, as you mentioned, Sam, Social Security is the most successful and impactful anti poverty program that the United States has ever enacted. It is for 90 years without missing a monthly payment. Social Security has not only lifted all of those seniors out of poverty, but also it's one of the most impactful programs for lifting children out of poverty because there's survivor benefits and there's all sorts of people who we've seen in the public arena who have been beneficiaries of that. Richie Neal, Tim Walls. So Social Security, I was asked to go to Social Security not because it was doing well, but because Paul Ryan too, I should say Paul Ryan, I did not know that. I was just in racing Wisconsin, speaking of Paul Ryan for a town hall on Social Security. So I was asked to go to Social Security by the Biden administration, by President Biden, not because Social Security was doing well, but because they were struggling. Over the last nine years, Congress, particularly House Republicans, had reduced Social Security staffing to a 50 year low even as baby boomers like me swelled the ranks of their beneficiary customers to a new all time high every day. And so all of, if you think about it like an insurance company, all of their customer facing metrics were headed in the wrong way in terms of timeliness. The wait time on the telephone and when you call the 800 number, the wait time if you apply for retirement benefits to get into pay status, the wait time largest ever in terms of the disability insurance aspect of the program, you know, that was signed into law by Dwight Eisenhower. If you're injured on the job, you can apply for insurance. So you get insured by working the requisite quarters not only against, you know, living out your golden years in poverty, but also if you know you are unable to work because of an accident on the job or something like that. So all of those things were headed in the wrong direction and the reason they were was because of the reductions in staffing. So with a new what we might call agile for government regimen that we called security stat, those folks at Social Security nonetheless were able to sprint up that downward moving escalator and get everything moving in a better direction. Until the election happened. And now Elon Musk with a chainsaw has been going after this agency and already has reduced by 7,000 people. I think they were at when I left after the election, they were at about 55,000. So they have already cut 7,000. Paying them our money, by the way, Sam, paying them with our money to quit and get out. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. And I think they're going to go down to 10,000. I mean they're going to lose even, they're going to get rid of even, even more than that. And as a result, all of the service metrics are going in the wrong direction again. You're seeing intermittent outages on their website and the other systems that sit atop that old cobalt green screen data system that has your earnings in mind since our first job. And ultimately this is going to cascade. And I do believe that we're headed for a system collapse at Social Security and that will involve the interruption of benefits. I don't know for how long and I hope I'm wrong, but it hasn't happened in 90 years. But they're headed to make it happen. Now.

[Sam Cedar]

I want to talk about the end game. You know, Donald Trump has said that he doesn't want to touch Social Security, but I think it's probably more accurate to say he doesn't want to be blamed for touch and Social Security. Let's talk about insolvency because it seems to me it's a two pronged attack, right? On one hand you got Elon Musk out there saying stuff like it's a Ponzi scheme. This, of course, is something that we've heard from Republicans for literally 90 years from the day after it was instituted. The first, I think 1936 Republican platform was against Social Security. And the latest thing is it's just not going to be there, et cetera, et cetera. This is, you know, we've been talking about this. Well, I mean, 20 years ago, George W. Bush is in the treasury going like it's just IOUs, it's just paper, it doesn't mean anything. Talk to us about the 1983 deal, Greenspan and Reagan and the anticipation of where we are now, the trust fund and the challenges not on a operational level, but in terms of a funding level going forward.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, there's a couple, there's a number of big lies that these guys have been spewing. As you pointed out, Sam, some of them are as old as the program itself. A couple of the big lies are it's a Ponzi scheme and it's going bankrupt. The other big lie is it's never, ever worked. So let's let me parse both of those. One person on a cable news show said to me when she heard me say that, look, we're headed to a system collapse in the next 90 days. She said, oh, we've been hearing that forever about Social Security going bankrupt. And it's still, they always say that and it's never happened. Let's separate the two things for a second and then I'll, you know, go to the heart of your question on the, on the solvency thing. There is a very real and imminent threat right now of system collapse because they have cut in half the number of people that keep their IT systems going. This is an agency that is all staffing people, helping people, and all IT systems. And when you exit, people that used to maintain those systems and understand how they're built, connected, architected, if you will, if you want to use that tech verb, you know, old cars have to be maintained and old computer systems have to be maintained. They've just shown 50% of the people that used to do that out the door. So that's a very real imminent threat. And if you're somebody for whom that check is the only difference between you living with dignity or you living under a bridge, that's a big deal. So one of the, but the, in addition to the big lies that illegal immigrants get, Social Security, which they don't, they're prohibited by law, or the big lie that dead people are stealing our checks, there's 20 million of them. Simply not true. Let's unpack a little bit. This solvency thing and bankruptcy thing. Social Security operates on a 75 year forecast. I don't operate on a 75 year forecast. Sam, I'm guessing you don't operate on a 75 year forecast, but Social Security does. And periodically Congress has to make an adjustment in order to keep it on that 75 year forecast. So that's what happened back in 1983. Congress made certain adjustments to the program because they saw that baby boomers of my generation whose parents came home from World War II and had a lot of kids were going to be coming to retirement age and they needed to build up a surplus reserve that would be large enough to cover the retirement lifespan of, of us baby boomers. And so that's what they did. When we hear people say Social Security is going to go bankrupt in 2035, that's not actually what they mean. It gets a lot of clickbait Lots of people want to read those stories, but what they're actually talking about is that surplus reserve, which is going to be depleted sooner than they thought back in 1983. And the reason for that is because of income inequality. In other words, changes that happened to the tax code after 1983 that moved more of the earned income in America for the next 40 years into the hands of the super wealthy in our country. And out of the range that Social Security, out of the bracket, if you will, that would have those dollars pay into Social Security.

[Sam Cedar]

In other words, in 1983, it was 90% of the nation's income was touched by the Social Security tax. And today it's closer to 84%.

[Emma Vigeland]

Correct. And that difference. Very well, you've done your homework. That difference is why it's being depleted 15 years earlier than they had thought. Totally solvable problem, not unlike the customer service crisis they're creating. That, too, is a solvable problem. And most people are surprised. I was just with a number of Democratic senators earlier this morning, and most people are surprised, as I've done these town halls, to realize that you only pay into Social Security on the first 170,000 of your income. And that's probably because most of the people coming to these town halls don't make a lot more than 170,000. So as a practical matter, that means that somebody that's a bus driver or a school teacher or works at McDonald's pays all through the year, whereas somebody like Warren Buffet or Elon Musk only pay for like two seconds after the ball drops on New Year's in Times Square and they're done. So that's why Democrats like John Larson from Connecticut, Sheldon Whitehouse in the Senate have introduced bills with a lot of co sponsors that say we should take that cap off of Social Security for the highest earners. Where do you reinstitute. Where does that start? 400,000. Biden, President Biden would indicate. Others have said 500,000. Some have said 250,000. Whatever it is, most Americans believe it's not fair and it's not right that there should be this kind of higher windfall on Social Security when we don't have that. When it comes to Medicare, there's no point where you stop paying into Medicare on every dollar earned above whatever it is.

[Sam Cedar]

Just to be clear. So if I'm making about $170,000 a year, I'm paying about $10,000 in Social Security tax. If I'm making $17 million a year, I'm paying $10,000 into Social Security tax.

[Emma Vigeland]

And that's better way of saying it than I said it. And I've been through a lot more town halls on this than you have.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, feel free to take that. Feel free to, to use that. So you've addressed the, the dead people, you've addressed the fact that there's folks who are 150 years old collecting Social Security. Trump has moved, I think it was just yesterday, maybe it was reported today to essentially dissolve the Social Security Advisory Board. And I know this is late breaking, but could you tell us, like, the relevance of that? Because that was an important, it seems to me, and it's a bipartisan board.

[Emma Vigeland]

But it seems to me that it's firm, too.

[Sam Cedar]

Senate, Senate confirmed. And it certainly, back when there was this fight to privatize Social Security under George Bush in 2005, that board was, it wouldn't play a huge role, but it played enough of a role for people to understand and to basically provide some information as to, there's a lot of talk here. And to be clear, at that time, they were saying, you know, the trust fund's going to run out in 2032. We're in a, we're, we're in a dire straits here. And like you've explained, trust fund runs out, we're still going to get 83% of our benefits. It's just a matter of lifting that cap and getting back to a consistent amount of the nation's income that's touched by Social Security tax. But what do you make of that board? Like, it seems to me these are all moves to sort of like till the ground, as it were, for actual cuts to Social Security or a privatization scheme.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, they seem to be, they're very intent on wiping out the, the umpires, the referees of the game, if you will, that can call balls and strikes on solutions, things that are solutions, things that are not solutions, things that are a real problem in terms of, you know, the operation of the agencies and things that are just outright falsehoods. So I think this is the latest in a succession. On day two in office, he did away with all of the inspectors general for every agency and department in the United States, including Social Security, the largest domestic program and the only one that actually runs a surplus of $2.6 trillion. Once they put their own puppet commissioner in charge of Social Security, that was President's Weekend. He was a guy five down in the hierarchy there who was actually put on administrative leave pending an investigation into illegally sharing our personal data with the.

[Sam Cedar]

Dudek is That his name?

[Emma Vigeland]

That is his name. And so in his first short week on the job, because it was after President's week, he only had four days, industrious guy that he is, he did away with the division called the Division of Analytics, Oversight and Review. These are the people that safeguard program integrity, that guard against improper payments, that you know, examine 50% of all of the allowances in terms of disability. And now you have this. And at the same time they're unleashing all of these false fraud claims. You know, the zombie apocalypse, illegal immigrants, the scandal that non citizens who enter the country illegally should get Social Security cards even though Elon Musk himself got one because it's required by law if you enter legally.

[Sam Cedar]

We make billions off of that. Right, we make billions off of that because a lot of those people don't end up collecting Social Security, they just pay in.

[Emma Vigeland]

Correct. In fact, in terms of the so called illegal immigrants, they pay in $25 billion a year that they'll never see a dime of. So this latest bit with doing away with the advisory board, which has its own staff by the way, and frequently does, I guess you would call them audits, studies, looks at how the program is operating and gives its own independent bipartisan sort of, you know, focus lens on aspects of the program that need to be addressed, fixed, shorn up, whatever it might be. So this is part of the ongoing, the ongoing pattern of these guys. They are, if there are no, if there are no people to call balls and strikes, then you know, the truth can be anything they assert that it is. And so I think that's why they want to do away with the advisory board. It's a mistake. They shouldn't do it. It served the agency and the people of the United States well. But this is who they are. They're trying to get rid of anybody that can be an independent arbiter and call the, and call falsehoods for what they are and assert the truth.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's talk about, you know, the contention that, that Musk had, that there's a fraud and waste in, in the agency. The improper payments. You mentioned that. My understanding is that about two thirds of improper payments, which still represent a tiny, tiny.0 something percentage of payments are, are clawed back. And I think like, you know, any business that anybody operates to have that type of like minimized loss would be, people would be bragging about it. But just give us an overview of that.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sure. The year after year, the inspector general audits as well as you know, we have our own Social Security Also has an outside auditor that we rotate. I still say we. That's rotated, like, every four years. So when I was there, it was Ernst and Young, I think, in their second year. Prior to that, it was Grant Thornton. So year after year, not only the internal before they did away with that Department of Analytics, review and Oversight, but our own internal audits, as well as the inspector general, as well as those, you know, big accounting firms, found that Social Security is actually very, very accurate, that the error rate was around 1%, sometimes a little bit more, sometimes a little bit less. And when we say error, we don't mean just fraud. We mean the improper payments. So Social Security has to calculate in order to get the right amount to the right person at the right time. That's 73 million calculations that you have to make. And sometimes, especially if somebody is in a position where, say you apply at the age of 62 for benefits and you want to continue to work, there is an offset if you earn too much. And so that can create situations of overpayments. There are also times when we make mistakes and the agency makes an overpayment and we have to, according to Congress, do our level best to reclaim that overpayment. They're also underpaying where we fail to pay people as much as their owed. That happens most commonly in ssi, Supplemental Security Income. But to your question about the fraud, the incidence of fraud at Social Security is less than 1/2 of 1%. It is a very, very small amount. Elon Musk said famously in one of his courageous interviews that he did with Fox News. He said that 40% of everybody who calls Social Security is a fraudster getting through on the 800 number to steal your direct deposit information. And it goes on all day and all night, and everybody sees it, and nobody does everything about it. Total, complete lie. The incidents of people calling that 800 number who are successful fraudsters is actually one out of every 3,100, which means 0.00032. So the notion that Social Security is rife with fraud, zombie apocalypse, dead people doesn't happen. I mean, we get automatically alerted by. We have contracts with the 50 states and the territories. So whenever there's a death certificate that's recorded, we get notified of that right away. You know what else we do, Sam? Ever since, like, 10 years ago, if somebody stops billing Medicare and they're over a certain age, that's an alert to us that, you know, maybe a miracle happened, but maybe something else has happened and there's a delay in Us getting that death certificate. And when the inspector general looked at that notion of dead people getting checks, they found roughly like 800 a year. And usually we catch up with the death within a month or two. So Social Security. Let me kind of talk a little bit also, Sam, about the waste and inefficiency thing, because that's another big lie.

[Sam Cedar]

People know I would do this for about 15 hours today.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. So if you think of Social Security like an insurance company, Social Security's overhead once, until about nine years ago, their overhead was 1.2% overhead per the amount of benefits they pay every year. That ratio of overhead TO benefits pay 1.2% when it operated well. That's now been reduced to less than 1%. But anyway, back to the comparison. If you compare that 1.2% when they operated well with a high level of customer service, that would make it the most efficient insurance company probably in the world. All state the good hands people, they have an overhead of 19%. Liberty Mutual, Liberty Biberty, they have an overhead of 23% overhead. So this notion that somehow Elon in his genius Doge Boys and all of them Madhala see mentioned that Social Security or MEM that they are going after all of this waste in this agency, they have not found the waste that they claim they found. What they want to do is get their hands on that 2.7 trillion in reserve. And so they have to wreck its reputation, wreck its customer service in order to turn enough people against the agency so that then they can get away with robbing it. But it is not an agency that has ever been bloated or wasteful. It's one of the most efficient insurance companies when it's operated well. And Congress will hopefully get them back to 1.2% if the Doge people and Trump don't wreck it before them.

[Sam Cedar]

I want to talk about that 2.7 trillion because I am old enough to remember when Al Gore was talking about a lockbox and everybody was sort of. Well, I just remember the general response to that being like, what's he talking about? And I think we've, we found out five or six years later when George Bush wanted to privatize it. But talk about the implication like there's, there seems to be two different sort of like reasons outside of just general ideology that they feel this is socialism that Republicans go after. This one is because that's a big pool of money that could offset tax cuts for the rich. And then it's also a big pool of money that if Wall street got Their hands off of could lard up with fees and whatnot. Talk about both those elements of why there's this sort of hunger to undermine Social Security.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, I don't entirely understand why they're going after this agency as viciously as they are. I suppose a part of it could be ideology. We've heard Elon Musk say that he believes that empathy is the greatest weakness in the Western mind. Most Americans would not agree with that statement. Most Americans think that the greatness of our country is determined by the amount of care and concern we show and have an empathy we have for one another. And there is no act of that's, you know, in law that is more impactful and has been for generations than Social Security. So I suppose it's partly ideological. It was debated, I am told, back in 1983, and by the way, I was in, you know, senior in high school or just a freshman in college. And all my friends and I would say to each other, then it's not going to be there for us. And here I am 62, Sam, and now I can apply. So it was debated back then that, well, maybe we should take part of this surplus reserve that we're going to build up to cover the baby boomers and maybe we should invest it in the market. And they debated that and they decided, no, we don't want to invest it in the market. And it was, I'm told that it was actually Republican Congress people that did not want that amount of money being manipulated by politicians in the federal government, whoever the president of the United States might be, that would then make politically driven investments with it. So they required that it all be put in the safest form of investment, which is treasury bonds. Full faith and credit of the United States of America. I've served as governor, and so I know that our own state pension systems, you know, part of those do get invested in the market. Part of those also get invested in treasury bonds. But for Social Security, they're the only agency that actually runs a surplus. Far from taking adding to the national deficit, Social Security actually lends the federal government money in the form of buying those treasury bonds. And then every year, now that the baby boomers are passing through the retirement age, the difference between the money that comes in in a given year and the money that has to go out to cover the baby boomers is taken, as anticipated, from that surplus reserve. Now, right around the same time, they started going after Social Security with all of these big lies about it, trying to undermine its reputation, its waste, its fraud Abuse all of this horse hockey. President Trump signed an executive order asking his treasury secretary and his commerce Secretary to come up with a plan for a sovereign wealth fund. And that sovereign wealth fund, if you read the executive order and not many people did, is an effort by the sovereign. I think they meant sovereign in terms of the government rather than capital S, like the new king of America. It would be a fund, though, that would allow him to invest wherever he might like with an account that is not necessarily something he has to go through Congress to get approval to invest and to spend. So, you know, we can twist ourselves into pretzels wondering what their ultimate goal is, why they want their hands on that. You indicated. And some Congress people have said, yeah, they want it to make tax cuts for the very wealthy permanent and they've got to find a big chunk of it in order to do that. That could be, I don't know, with assurance, I can't really say. I can say with some assurance though that they've probably taken 90% of the actions necessary to crater this agency and to interrupt benefits for the first time in 90 years. And it's, that threat is very real, it's very current and it's very present. And perhaps what they want to do is actually to precipitate an emergency, then declare a presidential emergency and then maybe be able to get away with things that otherwise they'd have to get through Congress. I'm imagining now.

[Sam Cedar]

That doesn't seem terribly implausible, frankly. One, one last thing as we talk about this, and I should also say that like, you know, I remember in the wake of the financial crisis, there were a lot of states that had a lot of problems because their pension funds, I mean, this is, you know, Social Security as, you know, one leg of a three legged stool. And those pension funds in a lot of states, they got crushed because of the, in the wake of the financial crisis and in, in a lot of instances in private sector, you see people anticipating certain amount of returns. It, it opens the door to putting less in. So if you got, you know, the urgency to fund these things, I mean, if I was to, you know, we put in the stock market, we're going to get 12% returns and I say that we're getting 12%. Then all of a sudden, 30 years down the line, we have a huge, huge shortfall. It's a great way to cut it. But one of the things I'm curious about, you know, you've talked a lot about Elon Musk's assault here. The other sort Of, I guess, tip of the spear in attacking these agencies. And it's almost as if we've seen, you know, wave one hit the beach. And behind that is Russell Vogt and the Heritage foundation in the Project 2025 folks. Doge, in some ways it seems to me, slowed their roll and you know, created a lot of opportunity for legal challenges. Do you have any, do you anticipate another wave of this, of these assaults or is it just going to be ongoing if they put their people in place enough at the agency and around it so that this assault is sort of just going to be self perpetuating? Or do you anticipate anything coming from like the Russell vote Nicks, if you will, going after Social Security?

[Emma Vigeland]

The, I mean the, they pretty much wiped out the Senior Executive service at Social Security. They took the nine regions and there were about 120 people in the Senior Executive Service. They took the nine regions, they consolidated those nine regional headquarters from SSA down to just four. And they put a lot of political people in place. I mean the agencies being entirely run by political people and the CIO who claims that they're going to be switching to a whole new system, that they're going to leave the COBOL system behind in the next 30 days, I think this is, and there's been litigation and we usually, and usually the plaintiffs are prevailing like a federal judge ordered the DOGE people to stay out of the database, but they really don't care. They know that the courts don't have an army and they seem to just be, they seem to be bringing on the constitutional challenge of a court ordering them to stop doing something in this case. And they just kind of say, well, make us. She said stay out. She wanted the DOGE people to stay out of the personal data that's there in the, in the computer system at Social Security. And not only did they fail to get out, but they just gave people different titles within the agency in order to kind of play cutesy around the judge's order. And now for the first time ever, they've actually been marking people as dead that they know to be a lie inside the Social Security database. And Sam, that's a crime. It is a crime to knowingly put to falsify a federal record, especially one that other federal agencies as well as private agencies rely upon. And that's what they've done at least 6,000 times. I'm told they're going to go up to 10 million more and they will claim it's just, oh, they're just Cleaning up records. But when I was in at a town hall in Wisconsin recently, there were two women who raised their hands when this topic came up and they said, I've had a friend, I have a friend who was wrongly marked as dead. And I asked both of them, when did that happen? They said within the last two weeks. So they are mucking around and causing a lot of pain. And if they can, they started off with those 6,000 saying that it was just repeat violent offenders, non citizens, but those 10 million are a lot more than that. So I think this is going to be a grind, my friend. I don't think that they've slowed down one iota. I think they want to crater this agency. I think they want to precipitate an emergency so then they can do whatever their, their next step is. And, and that will involve somebody making money on, on the pain that they inflict. And it's not going to be pretty. I think the one thing that can save us, though, there was an article yesterday that of all the many cruddy things that Donald Trump's done in his first hundred days, none is getting the blowback from the democracy, from the people. Quite like Social Security, it was the number one polling negative. And I do believe that the White House has noticed that.

[Sam Cedar]

And that really is, I mean, all that we can do at this point is just let the people understand the dynamics at play. And if something goes really, really sideways and as service deteriorates, that people understand why.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes, and I think they are, I mean, the people are going to have to save us on this one. I mean, at some of these town halls, it's interesting, you know, people get very angry that the Republican members of Congress don't come to the town halls. And then they, and sometimes they get angry with the Democrats for not putting a halt to all of this stuff by next Thursday. But as Emanuel Cleaver pointed out, I was at a town hall for him and Congressman from Kansas City, and he asked the audience, as they were expressing their frustration, why can't you stop this right now? Where's the constitutional safeguard? He said, this is a people moment. He said, you know how many people, you know how many Congress people stood with Martin Luther King on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, on the march on Washington? Not one. There's a lot of congresspeople. Hakeem Jeffries has told all his members to go back home, hold town halls on Social Security. But this is a people moment, and people need to call their congresspeople, whether they're Democrats, Republicans or senators, Democrats, Republicans, and they need to call the White House because what our members need to see is a rising level, not a blip, but a constantly rising level of people that are rightly outraged and concerned that they've had their customer service for Social Security that they have paid in for their whole lives, cut so badly and mess with so badly that they can't access their benefits. People paid for their, People paid for their customer service at the same time that they paid for their benefits. And right now, Elon Musk and Donald Trump are cutting that, that service, and there's no, there's no good reason for it.

[Sam Cedar]

Commissioner Martin O'Malley, former Social Security commissioner, also former governor of Maryland and mayor of Baltimore, and one of the people I think could have won the 2016 election against Donald Trump. Thank you.

[Emma Vigeland]

We would have beat him.

[Sam Cedar]

Sam, I've been saying that for about eight years. Really appreciate your coming on today and good luck with it. And I appreciate the work you're doing in holding these town halls and letting people know this stuff.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hey, thank you, Sam. Great spending some time with you. Thanks for your interest in this. It's important. Hey, can I say one other thing? Younger people, younger people, if they turn this, if they liquidate this and turn this into a Ponzi scheme, you're the ones that lose because the people currently getting benefits, they're getting the benefits. But if you've been paying in for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, kiss that goodbye. If they liquidate it. So young people, you're the ones that they're about to rip off. Don't let them. Thank you.

[Sam Cedar]

Appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right, folks, gonna head into the. Well, I guess really, what is the, the second fun half for me today, the first half was pretty fun. Nassau county spokesperson. Do you actually think he could have beat Trump? You know, I mean, I've said it jokingly for, for a long time. I, My sense is, is that any, that, that, that Clinton was uniquely ill suited to beat Donald Trump. I think she would have beaten Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz or whomever, whoever, big time losers, clown car that was there. But Clinton was. I mean, I don't, I'm not a big fan of her politics. There's a lot of things about her fan. But just on paper, her resume was about as good as you can get to be president. Right? I mean, she was there as first lady, she was there as Secretary of State. She had been first lady of governor, she was a lawyer, she had been a senator. I Mean, she had a tremendous, varied, she had a great cv. When you're looking at, you know, job applicants and you look at that cv, you just be like slam dunk. The problem is that's what she ran on. And you cannot get into a person to person fight with Donald Trump, particularly at that time because you just, she walked into a basically what was a trap and she didn't run on policies in the way that someone who was not going to come in and say like I'm deserving of this position. Right. Like, I mean that's, that was what her campaign ultimately was about.

[Matt Binder]

She was so obviously corrupt by money. And she lost because that she lost union vote worse than Biden and Harris did.

[Sam Cedar]

And you look at her policy platforms, they were, they were you know, above like replacement level. But you'd have to go and find those. And most people don't go and do.

[Matt Binder]

That just to correct myself. Biden and Harris won union voters. Clinton lost him.

[Sam Cedar]

And so this was, you know, and I think a lot of that was also the TPP and the Trans Pacific Partnership that Obama held on to for a long time. But because she was from that administration and of course there was like a 40 year cottage industry to create, you know, maybe make her the most demonized figure from the Democratic Party at that time. Now I don't know if Martin O'Malley could have won in 2020, but in 2016 I was basically my argument was like replacement level Democrat who doesn't come in with those liabilities could have been, I think Bernie Sanders would have absolutely rolled Trump.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Matt Binder]

Unless the party got in his way. And I'll just correct myself one more time. Clinton also won with union households, but just by 8%. The smallest since Mondale versus Reagan.

[Sam Cedar]

Lori's guy, how, when and who and why was the Social Security cap put in? I believe it's been there not at $170,000 since its inception. I'll double check on that. But the, the important point is, is that for the vast majority of that time the 90 years Social Security was in touched upon 90 I think to like 94% of U.S. income of wages earned because 94 of it was under the cap. And that 5 or 6%, that 5 or 6% makes a big difference in underfunding it.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yep.

[Sam Cedar]

Social Security featured a taxable maximum in 1937. Payroll taxes applied to the first $3,000 in earnings. 2011 it was the first 106,000. And now I think it's like 172 or three somewhere around there Randy, Andy, half of Obama's convention speech in 2016 was promoting the TPP, a losing issue for the Democratic Party. And I would also say, yes, the cap is on individual, not family. I will also say that someone not in the Obama administration because I have a feeling Obama made it clear to Clinton, like, if it wasn't for me, Joe Biden would be running because Biden wanted to run in 2016. And I think she felt that she owed Obama that. So there was a lot of things that conspired to Clinton's loss that I think any generic candidate wouldn't have been subject to, not, not the least of which misogyny. All right, just a. Oh, the hires. When is your debate with Ethan Klein? I don't know if it's debate. What's going on there? I think, I mean, it's happening this afternoon at 4pm Eastern Live. I'm not perceiving it necessarily as a debate. It's really more like I'm just go. I'm not 100% sure.

[Matt Binder]

Wellness check.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm not 100% sure what what exactly what is. But I don't necessarily perceive it as a debate per se. But I think Ethan wants to know my disposition on on Israel and Zionism, what's happening? So it's your support that makes the show possible. You can become a [e-mail] when you do, you not only help the show survive and thrive, you get the free show free of commercials. And then you get the fun half so much. Your support really is hugely important to us. There may come a day where Trump decides time for time for YouTube to shut things down. Yeah, look nasty. Made fun of Tim Pool. And Tim's a good guy. We just had him in the White House the other day. He did the Maryland man hoax. Yeah, if you do the Maryland man hoax, I mean, I don't like misinformation. We got a story about them doing this Paramount. It wouldn't take. We don't need to pay. They don't have to come to us for a $60 million suit to intimidate us. I got news for you. That number's a little bit lower. Just one day, I'll come on fire sale on all the mugs, all the.

[Matt Binder]

Hats, some old cables.

[Sam Cedar]

Vintage RCA and FireWire 4149 or something. Cables that we have in the office. We've got to move them all, folks. We got to move them all.

[Matt Binder]

Mike Lindell is going to be an embassy.

[Sam Cedar]

Exactly. Also just coffee, co op, fair trade coffee, hot Chocolate. Use the coupon code. Majority. Get 10 off. Get the majority Port blend. We will. Oh, Matt, what's happening with Left Reckoning last night?

[Matt Binder]

Left Reckoning, Vincent Bevins talking about his piece on the landless workers movement in Brazil. Also, I did an extended little meditation on how to end a witch hunt. Samuel Sewell, one of the judges in the Salem witch trials five years later, after the witch trials, stood up in church and said, I'm sorry and I want all the shame for having done what I've done. It's one of the things to be. People talk about American pride, American duty. I think it's one of the better instances of courage. And I think people should look towards history for courage in this moment. So patreon.com left Reckoning to support the show, folks.

[Sam Cedar]

See you in the fun half three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months from now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're going to look back and go like, wow.

[Emma Vigeland]

What?

[Sam Cedar]

What is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hold on.

[Sam Cedar]

Hold on for a second. Emma. Welcome to the program. Fun path. What is up, everyone? Fun path. No. M. Keen, you did it. Fun Path.

[Emma Vigeland]

Let's go, Brandon.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's go, Brandon.

[Emma Vigeland]

Fun crap.

[Sam Cedar]

Bradley, you want to say hello?

[Matt Binder]

Sorry to disappoint everyone. I'm just a random guy.

[Sam Cedar]

It's all the boys today.

[Emma Vigeland]

Fundamentally false. No. I'm sorry. Women.

[Sam Cedar]

Stop talking for a second. Let me finish.

[Martin O'Malley]

Where is this coming from?

[Sam Cedar]

Dude? But. Dude, you want to smoke this? 7A. Yes.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hi. Me? You think?

[Sam Cedar]

Yes. Is this me?

[Emma Vigeland]

Is it me?

[Sam Cedar]

It is you.

[Emma Vigeland]

If it's me. Oh, it's me.

[Sam Cedar]

I think it is you. Who is you. No sound every single freaking day. What's on your mind?

[Emma Vigeland]

We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm gonna discuss my life.

[Emma Vigeland]

Libertarians.

[Sam Cedar]

They're so stupid. Though common sense says of course. Gobbledygook. We nailed him. So what's 79 plus 21? Challenge. Matt, I'm positively quivering. I believe 96. I want to say 8 5, 7, 2, 1 0.

[Matt Binder]

35.

[Sam Cedar]

5 011%.

[Matt Binder]

3, 8, 9, 11 for a second.

[Sam Cedar]

$3,400. $1,900. 5, 4. $3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game. Actually, you're making me think what? But, but let me say this.

[Emma Vigeland]

You call it satire, Sam goes satire.

[Sam Cedar]

On top of it all. My favorite part about you is just like every day, all day, like, everything you do. Without a doubt. Hey, buddy. We see you. All right, folks, folks, folks. It's just the week being weeded out, obviously. Yeah. Sun's out, guns out. I. I don't know. But you should know, people just don't.

[Matt Binder]

Like to entertain ideas anymore.

[Sam Cedar]

I have a question. Who cares?

[Matt Binder]

Ouchet is enabled, folks.

[Sam Cedar]

I love it.

[Emma Vigeland]

I do love that.

[Sam Cedar]

Gotta jump. Gotta be quick. I gotta jump.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'm losing it, bro.

[Sam Cedar]

2:00, we're already late, and the guy's being a dick.

[Emma Vigeland]

So screw him.

[Sam Cedar]

Sent to a gulag.

[Emma Vigeland]

Outrageous.

[Sam Cedar]

Like, what is wrong with you?

[Emma Vigeland]

Love you.

[Sam Cedar]

Bye. Love you. Bye.