2504 - Trump's Brutal Big Billionaire Bill w/ Ryan Grim

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Majority Report with Sam Seder Episode: 2504 - "Trump's Brutal Big Billionaire Bill"
Host: Sam Seder
Guest: Ryan Grim
Release Date: May 23, 2025

---

Introduction

In episode 2504 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder, host Sam Seder engages in a comprehensive discussion with Ryan Grim, co-founder of Dropsite News and co-host of Breaking Points. The episode delves into the Trump administration's latest budgetary and policy maneuvers, highlighting their implications on education, healthcare, and economic landscapes in the United States.

Key Topics Discussed

1. Trump's Budget Resolution and Its Implications

Sam and Ryan begin by analyzing the recently passed budget resolution in the House, noting it as one of the most significant upward redistributions of wealth in the country’s history.

• Quote: Ryan Grim states, “They know they only have another year and a half and that's it before things start to like, gum up the works. And they're just going for it now.” [29:41]

The discussion highlights the aggressive nature of the budget cuts, which target essential services like Medicaid, climate initiatives, and food assistance programs.

• Quote: Sam Seder remarks, “I don't feel like I've ever seen anything quite like this in terms of what they're attacking, you know, what they're cutting. This is massive.” [30:37]

2. Impact on Rural Healthcare

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on how Medicaid cuts are poised to devastate rural hospitals, many of which are already operating on thin margins.

• Quote: Ryan Grim emphasizes, “It's awful. It's a vicious cyclical effect where... those employers move out of that area.” [32:18]

They discuss the potential for widespread hospital closures in rural areas, leading to decreased access to healthcare and economic decline in these communities.

3. Harvard University’s Decertification of International Students

The episode examines the Trump administration's move to revoke Harvard University's certification for its student and exchange visitor programs, effectively barring international students from attending.

• Quote: Sam Seder explains, “As a result of your refusal to comply with multiple requests... you have lost this privilege.” [10:01]

Emma Vigeland adds context by highlighting the administrative inconsistencies in the revocation letter, suggesting it’s a politically motivated crackdown rather than a lawful action.

4. Republican Strategies and Long-Term Consequences

Ryan Grim and Sam Seder discuss the Republican strategy of implementing severe budget cuts and regulatory changes, aiming to weaken Democratic strongholds and reshape the political landscape.

• Quote: Ryan Grim notes, “This time they're taking it to the next level... they're destroying that class of these classes of people and these communities.” [38:10]

They explore how these strategies might backfire by dismantling the very support systems that sustain Democratic constituencies.

5. Executive Actions on Pharmaceutical Pricing

The conversation shifts to Trump's executive order aimed at lowering pharmaceutical prices, which Republicans are attempting to codify into law through the reconciliation package.

• Quote: Ryan Grim explains, “If this goes into law... offer every single person all sorts of discount.” [40:14]

The discussion critiques the feasibility and potential loopholes of this policy, suggesting it may not effectively lower drug prices as intended.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sam Seder: “I don't feel like I've ever seen anything quite like this in terms of what they're attacking, you know, what they're cutting. This is massive.” [30:37]

• Ryan Grim: “It's awful. It's a vicious cyclical effect where... those employers move out of that area.” [32:18]

• Sam Seder: “As a result of your refusal to comply with multiple requests... you have lost this privilege.” [10:01]

• Ryan Grim: “This time they're taking it to the next level... they're destroying that class of these classes of people and these communities.” [38:10]

• Ryan Grim: “If this goes into law... offer every single person all sorts of discount.” [40:14]

Insights and Analysis

Throughout the episode, Sam Seder and Ryan Grim provide critical analysis of the Trump administration's policies, emphasizing their far-reaching impacts on vulnerable populations and institutional integrity. They argue that the aggressive budget cuts and policy reversals are not only unsustainable but also strategically designed to dismantle Democratic support bases and weaken societal structures that counterbalance Republican dominance.

The discussion on Harvard’s international student program serves as a case study for broader government overreach and the misuse of administrative authority to achieve political ends. The guests draw parallels between these actions and historical instances of political suppression, suggesting a concerning trend toward authoritarianism.

Conclusions

The episode concludes with a somber reflection on the potential long-term consequences of the Trump administration's policies. Sam Seder and Ryan Grim express concern that these actions may lead to irreversible damage to critical sectors such as healthcare and education, while also exacerbating political polarization and undermining democratic institutions.

They call for increased awareness and resistance to these policies, urging listeners to support organizations fighting against governmental overreach and to stay informed about the legislative changes shaping the nation's future.

Final Thoughts

Episode 2504 of The Majority Report offers a thorough examination of the Trump administration's latest legislative and policy initiatives, providing listeners with a detailed understanding of their implications. Through insightful dialogue and critical analysis, Sam Seder and Ryan Grim shed light on the challenges facing American society and the political strategies that may shape its trajectory in the coming years.

---

Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions of the episode.

Transcript

[Sam Cedar]

Folks, can you believe that Memorial Day, the unofficial start of the summer, nearly here. Where has the time gone? Perhaps maybe in just the hours and hours of scrolling on Twitter at night. Blue sky. Anyways, our friends@sunsetlake sebede.com know that even though the weather is nice, it doesn't mean your stress and anxiety just magically go away.

[Emma Vigeland]

Ain't that the truth.

[Sam Cedar]

That's why they're offering our listeners a special deal now through May 26th. That means you got three days. You can save 35% on all Saba diet tinctures when you shop with code memorial to five. The word memorial, the number 25, that's memorial followed by 25. All one word. That includes their regular formers, formulas, their sleep tinctures, even their pet tincture. Doesn't matter whether you're working on being kinder to yourself this summer or need a little help managing the stress of wedding season. Yeah, or travel. Or keeping your pet relaxed on a summer road trip. Or your kids. Or maybe your kids. Sunset Lake Saba Day has got something for everyone. For me, my go to, as you know, is their Good Night oil. That has helped my sleep trip tremendously. But I still love the regular Saba Day. You have various forms of strength and flavors. It's an easy way. I find it the best way to take it. Drop it right under the tongue. Deal with the kids a little better. Deal with your family members. No offense to any family members listening, of course I'm not talking about you. The sale ends May 26th at midnight. So don't wait. Stock up on your favorite tinctures during the sale. Head over to sunsetlakesabade.com use the code memorial25 for 35% off all Saba Day tinctures. Now is the time to try that Good Night oil. Trust me, Seba Day and Seba and I don't know why I said that. See their terms See their site for terms and conditions. Now time for the show.

[Ryan Grim]

The Majority Report with Sam Cedar. Where every day casual Friday. That means Monday is casual. Monday, Tuesday casual Tuesday, Wednesday casual Hump day, Thursday casual Thirs, that's what we call it. And Friday casual Shabbat. The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.

[Sam Cedar]

It is Friday, May 23, 2025. My name is Sam Cedar. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Ryan Grim, co founder of Dropsite News, also co host of Breaking Points. Breaking Points Meanwhile, Trump regime bars international students from attending Harvard. Harvard sues for the obvious infringement on First Amendment rights. Republicans reconciliation bill, one of the largest upward redistribution of wealth in our country's history. If not the. Meanwhile, Trump calls for 50% tariffs on Europe. I don't know if he had a bad glass of Chablis.

[Emma Vigeland]

He doesn't drink, so. So probably a bad McNugget or something.

[Sam Cedar]

Also calls for 25% tariff on Apple unless they make their phones in this country at a cost of approximately 55% more.

[Matt Binder]

Thank you very much, Tim. Apple.

[Sam Cedar]

The FTC drops its suit against Pepsi and Walmart pricing. It's really just pardoning them for obvious lawbreaking. And to distract begins an investigation of media matters.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yikes.

[Sam Cedar]

Supreme Court allows Trump to fire heads of independent agencies without cause, cutting against almost 90 years of precedent. However, federal judge upholds the temporary injunction against Trump's mass firings. And another judge blocks the DOE firing, saying that it effectively is shutting down the agency, which he's not authorized to do. Also, Elise Slotkin, remember her?

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Is that her name? Alyssa Slotkin?

[Emma Vigeland]

Who cares? You're doing the Elise Stefanik Alyssa Slotkin mix up. It's classic.

[Sam Cedar]

Yep.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Senator Slotkin of Michigan, Chuck Schumer's favorite, joined Senate Republicans after their override of the parliamentarian to block California's waiver to have zero emission targets. D.C. a woman arrested for spitting on Ed Martin when he was acting U.S. attorney is really. Poll shows overwhelming support amongst Israelis for ethnic cleansing in Gaza. This As Israel kills 50 Palestinians in drone attacks overnight. All this and much, much more on today's Majority Report. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. It is casual Friday. Yeah. So to speak. We were not casual, incidentally, about our delay here. People should understand that we had. Technically, we've had a tough technical week.

[Matt Binder]

Yes, it's like Apollo 13 in here.

[Ryan Grim]

Yep.

[Sam Cedar]

But we made it.

[Emma Vigeland]

We're here.

[Sam Cedar]

Matt's ingenuity saved us from these massive companies failure.

[Matt Binder]

A MacGruber.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, God knows what their valuation is relative to ours. Except for we show up every day. Incidentally, we'll be off on Monday for Memorial Day.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes, we will.

[Sam Cedar]

And no show, right? That is our tradition. Right? We don't do a show on Memorial Day.

[Matt Binder]

I completely overlooked this. But it's nice to have the three day weekend sprung on me.

[Emma Vigeland]

I know. Well, it's convenient. It feels like it should be next weekend, but it's not. It's this weekend.

[Sam Cedar]

Very early. Undoubtedly, you've heard the news. I mean, understand what's going on here in terms of Harvard, Harvard was, I think, the first university to fight back when the Trump administration wanted them to kowtow to the administration. Remember, this is also a function the administration. I don't know if they fell into this or this was, you know, this was an active strategy. I would probably imagine the latter. They did you ever print that out for me? We can read it here. I'll be able to see it. The Trump administration has been using, in part, this notion that there was rising anti Semitism on campuses and the agenda of Zionist ideology in this country to stifle criticism of Israel and their act of genocide. And that became the fig leaf in which they were basically extorting law firms and universities over the past, I guess, five months now. Harvard was one of the early or the first, one of the biggest, certainly universities to balk at that. Then we started to have some law firms who said, we're not going to. We're not going to capitulate to your insistence that we fund immigration attacks on people. And so the administration's obviously been looking for ways to deal with this. Here is a letter written to.

[Emma Vigeland]

To Harvard.

[Sam Cedar]

Harvard from Homeland Security, Harvard Student and exchange visitor program decertification. I'm writing to inform you that effective immediately, Harvard University student and exchange visitor program certification is revoked. Something like 25% of Harvard students, I would imagine, across both undergraduate and graduate are foreign.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yep, it's around. So it's like a fourth of their student body. 6,800 international students at Harvard.

[Matt Binder]

And they often pay full price.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, they end up subsidizing other students there in some respects. As I explained to you in April, it's a privilege to enroll foreign students, and it's also a privilege to employ aliens on campus.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's psychotic.

[Sam Cedar]

All universities must comply with the DHS security requirements, including reporting requirements under student exchange visitor programs, to maintain this privilege. As a result of your refusal to comply with multiple requests to provide DHS pertinent information while perpetuating an unsafe campus environment that is hostile to Jewish students, promotes pro Hamas sympathies and. And employees racist diversity, equity and inclusion policies, you have lost this privilege. None of what they're outlining, incidentally, is in any way criminal or like, I don't know that any of this is statutory.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right, that's my question. Well, I was trying to look into it a little, but we can touch on that after we get done with this insane letter.

[Sam Cedar]

The revoke the revocation of your student and exchange visitor program certification means that Harvard's prohibited from having any aliens on F or J non immigrant status for the 2025, 2026 school year. This decertification also means that existing aliens on F or J non immigrant status must transfer to another university in order to maintain their non immigrant status. This action should not surprise you, and it is an unfortunate result of Harvard's failure to comply with simple reporting requirements.

[Emma Vigeland]

So here she goes into this timeline.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, just want to say this sentence. I mean, I don't know who's writing these letters, but that sentence is not consistent with what they said in the first paragraph. This action is a result of Harvard's failure to comply with simple reporting requirements. And as we go back up, there were others that they claim that it's an unsafe campus, employs racist diversity equity inclusion policies, promotes pro Hamas sympathies. No, she says down here, this is just a function of reporting requirements.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right?

[Kristi Noem]

Right.

[Sam Cedar]

So within three paragraphs, they have contradicted themselves.

[Emma Vigeland]

She's admitted that. It's not just that, it's also the their speech.

[Sam Cedar]

On April 16, 2025, I requested records pertaining to non immigrant students enrolled at Harvard University, including information regarding misconduct and other offenses that would render students inadmissible or removal. Harvard's counsel provided information that he represented as responsive to my request.

[Emma Vigeland]

It was not, and I. Harvard's suit against the federal government today addresses this. And this seems to be kind of where the core of this. The. Their case rests on. Harvard did produce the information that they asked for within the timeline, and she essentially admits it. Kristi Noem. And says that the information was not responsive to her request without providing any evidence. And so they. They give her the information. DHS says it's insufficient, and then they revoke the student exchange visa authority, regardless. So this is just a mafia shakedown.

[Sam Cedar]

As a courtesy that Harvard was not legally entitled to. The acting DHS general counsel respond on my behalf afforded Harvard another opportunity to comply. Harvard again provided insufficient response. Consequences must follow to send a clear signal and all universities that want to enjoy the privilege of enrolling foreign students that the Trump administration will enforce the law, root out the evils of anti Americanism and anti Semitism in society and campuses. Head to the second page where we can see the laws that she's citing. Obviously, there are laws that she can point to. Here it is. Please be advised that materially false, fictitious or fraudulent information may subject you to criminal prosecution. Other stuff. Wait, what? Okay, so she's referring to the law that says you can't lie to us when you send us information. But she's not referring to the law that they already broke. I expect full and complete responses to the following request. Any and all records, whether official or informal, in the possession of Harvard University regarding illegal activity, whether on or off campus, by a non immigrant student enrolled in Harvard University for the last five years.

[Matt Binder]

It's a crazy request.

[Sam Cedar]

A non immigrant seems to be all the students. Right. I mean, if I'm a citizen, I'm a non immigrant student.

[Matt Binder]

So I think of myself a non immigrant.

[Sam Cedar]

But I wonder if that's what they meant or if they just meant people who are here on visas that aren't immigrating.

[Ryan Grim]

Right.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, it's unclear because this was written by a three year old.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yep.

[Sam Cedar]

Any and all records of any regarding dangerous or violent activity, whether on or off campus, by a non immigrant student enrolled at Harvard University in the last five years. Like the idea that they would keep record. I don't know, maybe they do.

[Emma Vigeland]

But they also have a duty to protect their students from the federal government.

[Sam Cedar]

I would imagine there's privacy.

[Matt Binder]

I mean, look at the way Shipman got booed by Columbia.

[Emma Vigeland]

They're opening themselves up to massive liability with their student body by violating their privacy because of this stupid ass letter from Kristi Noem.

[Matt Binder]

If you're an international student, why would you go to a school that is willing to give all this information to the Trump administration?

[Emma Vigeland]

No, of course you won't, and they're not. And good for Harvard for standing up here. They have the endowment to do it.

[Sam Cedar]

Regarding deprivation, the same request regarding deprivation of rights of other classmates or university personnel, whether on or off campus. Any and all disciplinary records of all non immigrant students. Any and all audio or video footage of any protest activity. Signed Kristi Noem.

[Emma Vigeland]

There you go. Footage of the protest activity. So plea. You're going to comply with us while we violate the free speech rights of your student body or we're basically going to go for your purse? Because that's as we. We touched on it just a second ago. These international students tend to pay full price, including room and board. So this is a hit at Harvard's finances, which is what they're trying to do, what it's designed to do. And it's clear that we haven't talked too much about it, but there was reporting a few days ago in the New York Times about how the Heritage foundation, which was behind Project 2025, has this separate project called Project Esther Esther that's using the same tactics to crack down on the pro Palestinian movement that are being used in Project 2025 and it seems like this is very much out of the playbook of what was outlined in that.

[Sam Cedar]

There is a question and someone just Im about. The specific law that protects students education records is ferpa, the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act. FERPA requires written consent from parents or eligible students before their education records can be disclosed to third parties. It is unclear to me like what whether education records constitute any records held about the student by and the educational institution. But nevertheless it's quite clear that there is no legal basis for what they're asking for because they don't even cite a law. Here is Kristi Noem on Fox News trying to explain this on themselves.

[Kristi Noem]

They have promoted and allowed violent activity on campus. They have allowed anti Semitism participation with CCP and Chinese infiltration and influence on their campus and they haven't protected their students. So we have given them multiple opportunities to share criminal activity with us backgrounds on these students to let us conduct the oversight into this program that is our responsibility.

[Sam Cedar]

And posit, incidentally, apparently all these students can go enroll in another college and they'll be fine. Yeah, we have all these scatter, these Hamas, Hamas Chinese, these China, Hamas agents.

[Matt Binder]

The chicom Islamists and as long as.

[Sam Cedar]

They go to a different college, they'll be okay. Is that what like for sure, Sam.

[Matt Binder]

That'S what we're saying. Okay.

[Emma Vigeland]

Also I really liked the they're under.

[Sam Cedar]

The cone of protection by Cornell University.

[Emma Vigeland]

I liked the the beginning when she talked about how violent they are. And they're the whole B roll that Fox News is showing. This is this giant protester that says protest, that says let Gaza live. And then also now here, stop the genocide divesting.

[Matt Binder]

That's kind of violence against investors.

[Kristi Noem]

Yep, Graham, that is our responsibility. And they have refused to do so. So today I sent them a letter that said they will no longer be allowed to participate in this student exchange visitor program. And that's up to 27% of their enrolled students students. So it's significant. Any foreign student that wishes to get an education in this country that is attending Harvard and not participating in this criminal activity, they will have to find another university to go to because Harvard has chosen instead to not protect their students and to allow this kind of violent and discriminatory action continue.

[Emma Vigeland]

So as you mention violence. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

And the law that they have violated, the law of privilege, I don't know what it is.

[Emma Vigeland]

Words are not violence. Words can be hateful, but words are not violence. They bombs are violence.

[Matt Binder]

And especially not words that are like stop the genocide and divest from Israel. That's actually the opposite of violence.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right, But I mean, I don't know why she even needed to write that letter. Couldn't Trump have just done habeas corpus and all of this could have been solved? I've been told by her that that's a presidential authority.

[Sam Cedar]

Habeas. Habeas corpus. Corpus.

[Matt Binder]

Habeas chicken nugget 10 piece.

[Sam Cedar]

So Harvard is, I mean, they, they immediately filed suit and it's going to be interesting to see what happens when some of like the, the biggies, like apparently the future Queen of Belgium just finished her freshman year at Harvard. No word on whether she's a secret chicom.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hamas.

[Sam Cedar]

Hamas. Anti Semite, Anti Semite plant, Secret plant or whatnot.

[Matt Binder]

Sleeper cell.

[Sam Cedar]

Sleeper cell. But I would imagine at one point there's gonna be people there. And where's that Bill Ackerman guy? Didn't he. Is that what his name is?

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, he's thrilled about this.

[Ryan Grim]

He loves it.

[Emma Vigeland]

This is what, his money. He was a big Trump donor. He was having to bankroll this himself back in the day with Harvard, where he was putting out LED doxing trucks outside of the campus with the names and photos and information of the students there. Now he's got a Project Esther to.

[Matt Binder]

Do it and he does all this stuff tweeting from the elliptical, apparently.

[Sam Cedar]

There you go.

[Emma Vigeland]

And by the way, project Brain Drain. Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

What's going on in this country right now?

[Emma Vigeland]

And just got to say, this is disgusting. And it's not making Jewish students safe, it's making them unsafe to continue to use them for the Trump administration's fascist actions. Absolutely disgusting. To continue to conflate anti Zionism and anti Semitism for this authoritarian crackdown.

[Sam Cedar]

It's incredibly dangerous.

[Matt Binder]

I saw three young Orthodox boys walking on my way to work this morning. They had anti Zionism. Anti. Anti Zionism is not anti Semitism placards. Good for them.

[Sam Cedar]

Quick words from our sponsor, then we'll be talking to Ryan Grim more than ever. Delete me. Makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. More and more online partisans, nefarious actors, will find this data and use it to target political rivals, civil servants, even outspoken citizens. Citizens posting their opinions online. I mean, you look at all the enforcement, frankly, by the, you know, ice, it's all the low hanging fruit.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

The one thing about these fashy types, they are super lazy and so, you know, going to A broker on online. That's the first place they're going to be looking for info, to be totally honest with you. But I mean that's not. People use this for different reasons. With Delete Me you can protect your personal privacy or the privacy your business from doxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited. As you can imagine, this is a product that I love and one frankly I've been using for I think about 10 years. Way before they ever became a sponsor. It's just they will update every month. They will go and scrub your information from these data brokers and they keep doing it because data brokers keep repopulating it and they'll send you a an email digest of everything they've gotten out so you can get rid of all the stuff from your family and whatnot. Like some of these data broker sites are nuts. They will follow where you have lived for your entire life. They will follow your relatives. It is honestly sort of shocking and I want to thank Delete Me for sponsoring today's episode. With Delete Me I protect both my personal privacy, privacy of this business, frankly. Also members of my family. You can take control of your data. Keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for you. Get 20% off your delete me plan by texting majority to 64,000. The only way to get 20% off is to tax majority to 64,000. That's majority 6 to 64000 majority 64,000. Message and data rates apply. We'll put the link in the podcast in the YouTube descriptions. Also another product I was using for years before they became sponsors, Fast Growing Trees. It is the biggest online nursery in the U.S. thousands of different plants, over 2 million happy customers. They have everything that you need for your yard and frankly your indoor plants as well. They got fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs. They got fig trees you can put in your house. They got avocado trees they can put in your house. They got all sorts of other plants and stuff like that. But I like to, I like my plants to get a little back. Fast Growing trees makes it easy to get your dream yard order online. Get your plants delivered directly to your door in just a few days without ever having to leave home. They have an alive and thrive guarantee. It ensures your plants arrive happy and healthy. You no longer have to go to the box store, put the stuff in your car, have it dump all over the place and they only have like three different options. On an apple tree you can get Korean pear Trees you can get, I get those lilac blue meringues that bloom like two weeks ago and then will bloom again in July. You can get plums and peaches, but like 40 different plums, 40 different types of peaches. They got wolfberries. They got, you can't believe it, stuff you've never even heard of. They got a 14 point quality checklist ensures you're getting the best quality plants. You can talk to a plant expert about your soil type, your landscape design, how to take care of your plants, everything else you need, no green thumb required. If you want to do your own research, they have a resource center full of tips and advice from plant experts to help you learn more about your yard's needs. So use their zone finder, find out what works in your area. I would, I would anticipate maybe things getting a little warmer, sadly. Anyways, Fast growing Trees has the best deals, up to half off select plants and other deals. Our listeners of our show get 15% off your first purchase when using the code majority at checkout. That's an additional 15% off fast growing trees.com use the code majority at checkout. Fast growing trees.com code is majority. Now's the perfect time to plant use majority save today offer valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions apply. We'll put the link in the podcast in the YouTube description. Quick break. Ryan Grim it. We are back. Sam Cedar, Emma Viglin on the majority report. Joining us now.

[Emma Vigeland]

Ryan Grimm.

[Sam Cedar]

Brian Grimm. I just saw Ryan, I just saw your email. Your text me. Sorry. Oh, and Ryan Grimm, he is the co founder of drop site and also the co host of Breaking Points.

[Ryan Grim]

There you go. Lovely to be here, guys. How y' all doing?

[Sam Cedar]

All right? Good.

[Emma Vigeland]

Doing well.

[Sam Cedar]

Dress down this week for us.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, well, you try to keep you on your toes.

[Emma Vigeland]

He can't wear the Windsor knot anymore because he gets roasted last night.

[Ryan Grim]

That's true.

[Sam Cedar]

He was wearing a suit. He looked good.

[Emma Vigeland]

Now you look horrible.

[Sam Cedar]

We just played.

[Ryan Grim]

My hair looks good today. I feel like I'm having a good hair day.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's start with the budget because that's the, I mean there's so much stuff going on, it's, it's crazy. It feels like we got, we had like a week or so of stuff like being a little bit slower but, but the pace of stuff has moved up again and I don't know, this week I really got the sense of like this is not, this is going to what it's going to be until, until the midterms and I Think like the budget. The fact that this budget resolution, or I should say now the bill passed in the House, I think is indicative of the way that the Republicans in the Trump administration perceive this. I feel like they know they only have another year and a half and that's it before things start to like, gum up the works. And they're just going for it now.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, they, and they did this in 2017 too. And, and I think they had the same sense and correctly because they did lose the house in, in 2018 and they just, they went for it, they did this massive tax cut and then by this, this fluke of Trump's history, you know, he happens to get to be back into office as that 10 year window, you know, is, or as the window is expiring so that he gets, he gets to be the one to, to re up it into, you know, a longer term bill.

[Sam Cedar]

The cuts to Medicaid. I mean, you've got all these like, sort of like frontline Republicans who are like, this is gonna kill us and this and whatnot. And it doesn't seem like they care at all. I mean, the New York Times has a great breakdown though, of all of these cuts that are happening. I mean, the biggest cuts.

[Emma Vigeland]

To.

[Sam Cedar]

Essentially our government functioning is Medicaid, climate stuff and food essentially. Like, I mean, they're just going headlong. I don't, I don't feel like I've ever seen anything quite like this in terms of what they're attacking, you know, what they're cutting. This is massive. And it also seems like it's going to trigger sequestration, which is a nice little gift for Obama that keeps on giving and, and that's going to cut another $500 million from Medicare.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah. No, they're going for. Because if they want tax cuts of the size that they're going for, you have to cut into the bone. You like Elon Musk, you know, thought, you know, I guess he maybe, I don't know if he believed it or not, but a lot of people believed the propaganda that just going after, you know, transgender mice research would get you to what you need to do, like get somebody smart in there who, you know, doesn't care like, and he's going to take a chainsaw to it and then we can, you know, cut massively cut the deficit and do tax cuts. And that just turns out to be a misunderstanding of what the government is like if you, you have to destroy significant chunks of it if you want to cut money out of it. Doesn't necessarily mean it's actually even going to cut the spending that much. You know, people are still going to get sick and use hospital services whether you give them Medicaid or not.

[Emma Vigeland]

But it seems like there's going to be a lot of closures of hospitals in rural areas. We were covering this a little bit yesterday, but like something like the. There's half of rural hospitals are operating already on negative margins.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, it's awful.

[Emma Vigeland]

The Medicaid eligibility and enrollment, the expansion. There was a stat that rural hospitals in Medicaid expansion states are over 60% less likely to close than the ones that haven't expanded because of how important Medicaid is in these rural, poorer areas. It's going to have deep effects on the constituents, like almost directly that a lot of these Republicans represent.

[Ryan Grim]

You sound like Steve Bannon. He's been.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, please, Ryan.

[Ryan Grim]

He's been saying. He's been saying that exact thing. Yeah, he's, he's been warning and, and there are a lot of Republicans who know this. And your point is a good one because it's not just people who will lose access to their coverage through Medicaid. It will then have this ripple effect of closing substantial numbers of rural hospitals. And it's hard to just, it's hard to overstate just how damaging it is to a community to lose the hospital because it has this vicious cyclical effect where if there are some, you know, decent jobs left in that area, the employers have a much harder time attracting people to move to that rural area if there's no hospital within like 45 minutes. And so then those, those employers move out of that area as, as well. We're seeing like, very small colleges, you know, collapsing all over the country as well. That, that, that also has the same vicious cycle effect on, on these rural communities. And then you're just left with just the people who can't leave.

[Sam Cedar]

There is a. CBS did a good thing on it. I thought I forgot to put it in the, the, the, the audio pulse today. But this is going to have devastating. I mean, it was just a story of somebody who, like, you know, somebody had a stroke. They have a hospital 15 minutes from them. And when this hospital goes away, because it will, because of these Medicaid cuts, the nearest, possibly 45 minutes to an hour away and that guy's dead. That's it. I mean.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And companies don't want to move there. Then, like, nobody wants to locate there.

[Sam Cedar]

You don't have a local hospital. You're not going to, you know, you're not going to be able to get employees.

[Ryan Grim]

And I'm talking about small companies like a small 5 to 10 person, like they don't, they're not, they're going to leave too.

[Sam Cedar]

Is there like, you know, it's, it's stunning to me because I think part of what the bet is by the Republicans is that a, we're going to be able to do this and we'll get a, we'll get, we'll get voted out in a year and a half, but we could be back in four years, could be back, you know, they.

[Ryan Grim]

Don'T, you know, they don't respect Congress.

[Sam Cedar]

Anyway and it's going to, you know, move in this direction. But I also think that there's a confidence that they have like the narrative, we can shape the narrative as to what happened here. Like you know, in two to four years, five years, 10 years in that town that basically dries up because the hospital's gone. Who's going to tell that story when that is any different? They're all going to be just still watching Fox. Fox is not going to cover that story. It's going to be DEI or whatever the next iteration of it is. There's nobody telling this story. There's no local media there. They're not, they're just not hearing this story.

[Ryan Grim]

The worse things have gotten economically in rural America over the last 30 to 40 years, the more Republican it has gotten. So it's, they're, they're not like, they don't have any political worries at all about that. In fact, as, as these rural communities collapse, the things that I'm talking about leaving, you know, businesses, you know, with people making six figures, hospitals and, and small colleges, when those close up shop, the people that overwhelmingly worked at those not, not exclusively but like at least 50, 50 are Democrats because, and you know, you always see in rural America, even a candidate who is R plus 50 district still means, you know, they got 70, you know, there's still 30, right. 25, 30 of the people are Democrats. It's it, it when those communities collapse, it's often the Democrats who are collapse, who are collapsing first because now Democrats are more middle, middle and upper middle class and, and educated professionals. So as, as they leave the area, you know, paradoxically becomes, as it gets worse because of these Republican policies, it becomes more of a Republican stronghold.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean that's the failure of the Democrats then. That's the, that's. So you can sum up what this Republican strategy is, is banking on Democratic weakness, which unfortunately is, has been a Pretty good bet for basically my entire.

[Ryan Grim]

Lost money yet on it.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, there's a crazy dynamic between Democrats relying on Republic policy to defeat them themselves in many respects in elections. Whereas Republicans look for material ways of increasing their ability to get elected. You know, like super intense gerrymandering.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Or, you know, redistricting in such a way that cuts out.

[Ryan Grim]

And this time they're taking it. They're taking it to the next level. This time they're, they are just smashing the foundations of the Democratic coalition. You know, going after universities, government workers, you know, the educated professional class. Like they are, like they're just going right for them. They're, they're destroying that class of these classes of people and these communities.

[Sam Cedar]

Say something positive.

[Ryan Grim]

It's Memorial Day weekend. I'm going to take Monday off.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, I think I'm gonna be filling in for you on Tuesday. I might be coming on Breaking Points, so that'll be fun.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, I heard about that. Very cool. Who are you going to be with? Emily.

[Emma Vigeland]

With Crystal. With Crystal. Or maybe Emily, too. I'm not sure, but yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

All right, let me see if I.

[Emma Vigeland]

Have a schedule, something to look forward to.

[Matt Binder]

Individual level, things are looking up.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

We can all, we can all have front row seats to this catastrophe. How does that count as.

[Sam Cedar]

What do you think? You know, it just, I mean, I think it's, I can ask you what's going to happen in the Senate, and I think we both know it's going to pass. I mean, this is all going to.

[Ryan Grim]

Version of it for sure. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

And there may be some nibbling around the edges.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, here's something nice. They're trying to codify Trump's executive order on lowering pharmaceutical prices in this reconciliation package.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay.

[Ryan Grim]

Like that's, it's in there. That's good.

[Sam Cedar]

And do you think that's going to survive the Senate?

[Ryan Grim]

I think so, because they, they desperately need the CBO savings. Like it's, it'll say, you know, on paper and in the real world, it will save, you know, Medicare and Medicaid hundreds of billions of dollars and then they can use that to pay for their tax cuts.

[Emma Vigeland]

But is that codified? Like Trump's pharmaceutical executive order, if I recall, was about. He was mad that Europe, Europe and Canada was paying less for our drugs, but he had it in the reverse where it wasn't that the US Pharmaceutical companies should lower their prices, but that. That they need to be paying more in Canada and Europe. So what? He's such a stupid thought what he's.

[Ryan Grim]

What he's saying accurately, is that, you know, if, that, if this goes into law, that in the U.S. they, you pay the lowest sticker price anywhere else in the world. What the pharmaceutical companies will do is they will slight, slightly raise their prices in Europe and elsewhere. And so that will then subsidize them having to lower prices here in the United States. So it is, it is pitting us against the rest of the world. Right now we do pay more than anybody else. So you can. So the effect will likely be that there would be some increase around the world or, or what they'll do is they'll game it and they'll raise their sticker prices, but then they'll offer every single person all sorts of discount.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, discounts in there. I mean, that's the thing is it could theoretically not even lower prices here because it's a big walk around. A walk around in terms of workaround to make it look like their prices are higher in Europe when in fact they're not, as opposed to us getting cheap medicine. It's just relative to the rest of the world. Meanwhile, nobody's gonna come here anymore for healthcare, it seems to me, because we're gonna have such a brain drain with all that's going on with these that, you know, they're not gonna be able to brag that like princes come here from around the world to get healthcare. We have the best in the world.

[Ryan Grim]

That's gonna end right when we're deporting all the nurses. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

So let's talk about this. This. I mean, I think, like, the Senate is going to fall in line. There was a lot of surprise when that first budget resolution passed months ago. And there does not seem to be a reckoning as to why people were surprised about that. The implication was like, Republicans are going to break from Trump on this. Is there any indication that the people who are saying in the Democratic Party, like, this is where, you know, the fever is going to break? It's not going to break. Like, like what is it going to take for them to understand where this is headed?

[Ryan Grim]

Maybe they are, maybe they're seeing it now. I don't know. Like, you know, because they moved it, they did move it through the House. And I have a little extra reporting from Trump's meeting. You know, how, you know, he met with the Republicans and the Freedom Caucus. It seems pretty clear the Freedom Caucus leaked this part where Trump said, freedom Caucus are my guys. Leave them alone. And that was read as like, you know, maybe the Freedom Caucus will Gum this thing up. And then they didn't. Trump's full quote to the entire conference was, love the Freedom Caucus. They're my guys. Leave them alone. Live. They love. Live free or die. You can also vote for this bill or you will die. So they left that out when they, when they leaked that part about how much Trump loves them. But it takes like, you know, Trump is willing to threaten them publicly.

[Sam Cedar]

Is that, what is the understanding, what is the understanding on the Hill as to, like, Elon Musk? I mean, you know, from the outside, it looks like Elon Musk is gone. Right, Right. I mean, and because he lost in Wisconsin, but at the same time, he traveled with Trump to the Middle East. He's still there. He's just, like, laying low. And I suspect his plans to spend all this money in 2026, or at least in the primaries to maintain party discipline has not gone away. And I suspect that a lot of these people know that, too. I mean, are you hearing, like, what is, what do Republican lawmakers who are concerned about a primary probably more than a general for the vast majority of them. Right. I mean, the vast majority of them are in safe Republican districts. The real fear is a primary. What is, what are they saying about this?

[Ryan Grim]

Right. He said, he said, you know, Musk said he's going to, you know, spend less money. You know, he's done with the political spending. But people in, like, in Washington, they still, they still see him there. He's, he's not the front and center guy like he was. Like he was. He's not considered to be the co president anymore, but he's still understood to be in this, in the inner circle, and he's understood to be there with the checkbook if Trump needs him to be. Because, you know, these relationships can work both ways. You know, you know, Musk might have thought that he was going to own Trump by spending $300 million, but in many ways, Trump owns him because of all of the relationships that.

[Sam Cedar]

Too big to fail.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. So, and, and it's a too big to fail relationship both ways. So if, if Trump goes him and is like, look, Chip Roy over here is giving me grief. I need 10 million in this super PAC. Musk is putting 10 million in that super pack. So, so the, the, this, the, the fear that he inspired is still there.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, I don't think that's gone away. I mean, I think Wisconsin may have made it clear that he can't be public about it, but the money's the money at the end of the day.

[Ryan Grim]

He's seen his polling numbers. He's not like, unlike Biden, they can't keep him from forever.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

One of the things that they're going to try and do in the Senate is to change the baseline of our spending. As it stands now, at the end of 2025, the Trump tax cuts expire absent new legislation and under scoring rules. That's what. Because this new legislation wouldn't apply until 2026. That is the baseline with them expiring. And in that instance, then it looks like when you add new tax cuts that you're essentially spending more. As far as like the accounting is concerned, the bill costs more because you don't have the same revenue. And Republicans are talking about going around the parliamentarian and just deciding, no, we're doing a different way of accounting, which is we're pretending like the tax cuts are permanent already and therefore this is revenue we're not getting and therefore it doesn't count against the way we score the budget. And for the bird rule, which is also sort of like, if you're going to go around the parliamentarian for one thing, why wouldn't you do it for another? It seems to be, you know, strange in that way. And they just went around the parliamentarian. Let's talk about this because Elise Slotkin or Alyssa Slotkin has basically, you know, voted with the Republicans after they essentially sidestepped the parliamentarian. Do you know this story?

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. This is around whether or not, whether or not the CRA applies to a waiver or not in the parliamentarian said it doesn't.

[Sam Cedar]

The Congressional Review Act.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. Which, which, yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Gives Congress the opportunity to reverse rulings that were made by the prior administration within the last six months. And not only does it reverse it, it means you cannot reinstitute this rule without like a two thirds Congress vote in the affirmative going forward. So it's like a, not only a reversal, it's like a punishment as well.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah. Right. And so. Right. And so Republicans wanted to get rid of this waiver that the Biden administration had given to California to do something around environmental regulations. Was it they wanted to raise their.

[Sam Cedar]

CAFE standards so that they could get to zero emissions, I think it was by 2035 or something or somewhere around there essentially have all electric cars.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. And so Republicans said we want to get, we want to undo this waiver. And Elizabeth McDonough, the parliamentarian, said, no, you can't do that. It's got to, it's a rule. You got to do it. It's a rule Not a waiver. And Republicans were like, okay, thanks for your advice. We're not going to take it. And they voted to overrule her, which they should. Like, that's on a matter of not talking about the policy, but as a matter of principle. That's what we were all saying Democrats should do to the parliamentarian back in 2021. Okay, thank you. You're a Senate staffer. We appreciate your analysis. We are the elected senators. This is what we're going to do. And just, you know, so thanks. You know, parliamentarian doesn't make a ruling. Like she kind of aggregated to herself this, like this fake authority to quote, make a ruling with the, with the minimum wage. One was the apex of her fake power where she released one sentence to Schumer that said the Bird rule does not apply, you know, cannot be waived for the minimum wage or whatever. Just one sentence. And Schumer did actually say to her, bro, like you got to do, you got to give us a memo. Like, you're, you can't just rule. You're not, you're not a judge that just bang gavels this in.

[Sam Cedar]

But he didn't put in fighters. A reason, right?

[Ryan Grim]

I didn't, I need a memo for the Baileys. But he's, she was right and he was wrong in the sense that if, if they're not going to overrule her and they're just going to take whatever she says. She is the judge. She's like, they're allowing her to be the judge. And you can say like Chuck Schumer didn't want to do the minimum wage. So that's why he was okay with it. And it's a learned, you know, helplessness. So that, so that the Baileys don't get mad at Chuck for not raising minimum wage. She can explain to them. But yes. So now. So, you know, after that she started writing at least like one page memos about like here why you can and can't do stuff. And the Republicans, to their credit, are like, thanks for this. Appreciate it. We're going to go a different way and we're going to put it to a vote on the floor. The other thing is Schumer might have, would have probably lost these votes even if he put it on the floor. Because you'd have people like Pat Leahy. She's this parliamentarian's from Vermont. Pat Leahy loved her. Well, that's the thing. How dare you overrule the parliamentarian. You know, I've been here since 1970.

[Sam Cedar]

That Alyssa Slotkin in any shape or form would ever vote for a bill like in that situation with the $15 minimum wage if it ever comes up. She wouldn't say like the parliamentarian says we can't do this. But she voted for this. You know and obviously, you know, for her justification. It's like some type of Detroit.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, 100%. Yeah. Oh yeah. I understand her vote. They make a lot of gas powered vehicles in Michigan. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Like that when California state votes.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

We're only doing EVs. The rest of the, they're such a big economy. They impact.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Other states and I, yeah, like I.

[Ryan Grim]

Understand her vote from a Michigan perspective. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Meanwhile this is, she is been anointed by Chuck Schumer as the future of the Democratic Party. I mean that piece when, when he said like I'm tapping you to do the response to Donald Trump. No word from Chuck Schumer on this. Is he still a senator?

[Ryan Grim]

Still a senator, still there.

[Sam Cedar]

I haven't heard much from him. It's not like going on now. I'm just curious. I haven't heard much from him so I was just curious.

[Ryan Grim]

He laid a little low.

[Emma Vigeland]

He's licking his wounds because of that 17 approval rating and the guitar did.

[Ryan Grim]

Not go as as hoped for. They also have a, you know, Michigan contested Michigan Senate race. And so you know, Schumer's not going to say anything that could be used against whoever the Michigan Senate hopeful is.

[Emma Vigeland]

Pelosi just endorsed Haley Stevens though. If I, if I, if I read that correctly. Let me just make sure that that's true.

[Ryan Grim]

Track.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. Hold on.

[Matt Binder]

But Nancy Pelosi endorses Stevens in Michigan Senate race.

[Ryan Grim]

What a surprise. Yeah, that tracks.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. Well she is, she's a pack's favorite candidate. And Mallory, to be fair though she's.

[Sam Cedar]

Under the age of so that is a break in tradition. But yeah, the Democratic Party, she's like.

[Emma Vigeland]

Especially very, very court courting a PAC aggressively like almost to the point where she's going out of her way to make this her more central to her candidacy. Then of course Abdul Al sayad or Mallory McMurro anyway. Well, yeah, because frustrating.

[Ryan Grim]

She understands.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

She understands that APAC is already going to be keeping its eye on Abdul Al Said and also Mallory because she's considered to be kind of a progressive right is immediately suspect when it comes to Israel, Palestine from APEX perspective. So as she has previously in her house race has gotten enormous APAC support. So she's, she's barking up the right tree.

[Emma Vigeland]

Gross.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's talk a Little bit about what, what we've seen. You know, Israel seems to be completely. Now. I mean, it's not like they had any type of restraint before, but they are, they're. They have just. They're being relentless and feels like now they have unfettered, like an unfettered lane, as it were, to do this ethnic cleansing. There was a poll that came out in Haaretz, I think, overnight or yesterday, showing massive support for ethnic cleansing in Gaza amongst the Israeli population. Trump doesn't seem to be terribly concerned about this. There was a brief moment where it looked like that they had made some negotiations with maybe, you know, the Saudis or maybe the UAE was like, you got to do more for Gaza. And it got him to say there should be more food to Gaza. And so the Israelis let in, like, half a dozen trucks. Woefully insufficient to keep kids from starving. We, you know, 50 people killed overnight. The family that we've had on from time to time, who've started a bakery in Gaza and have started to attempt to do a kindergarten, they just lost nine, maybe 11 people in a drone attack last night.

[Emma Vigeland]

We'll put a link to that fundraiser in the. Just.

[Ryan Grim]

That's not the Dardu family.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no, it is the. The Al Dogma family. They were killed east of Khan Eunice. And undoubtedly, you know, children. I mean, it's just.

[Ryan Grim]

Yes, it's, it's ramping up. And this week, and I, I have it as my pinned tweet right now, this comment, comment from Bezel Smotrich, the finance minister, which is just truly extraordinary. I can read his quote. He says, the IDF is finally conducting a campaign against the civilian rule of Hamas and not just focusing on the military infrastructure. We are eliminating ministers, officials, money changers, and elements of the economic and governmental system, unquote. And the Gaza Ministry of Health just announced that 12 ICU nurses were assassinated this week, some in targeted strikes on their homes, with their families. So the attacks on journalists and medical professionals have ramped up. And he's. And so Smotrich is saying that it is now official Israeli policy that they're targeting civilians and the entire civilian infrastructure.

[Sam Cedar]

And, you know, there's no, you know, where is the Arab leadership? I mean, where is. There's no. There is no. There seems to be no pushback. There seems to be, you know, short of like France, UK and Canada, I mean, short of Yemen, no one. There doesn't seem to be any entities, sovereign entities, that are. That are saying stop or slow or anything.

[Ryan Grim]

Right. Yeah, even the, Even The Qataris, you know, you know what, they, they made a lot of private comments to Trump and Witkoff. But you know, MBS sitting next to him, NBZ sitting next to him, the Amir of Qatar sitting next to him and having the cameras on them. None of them, none of them said a word.

[Emma Vigeland]

We had David Hearst of Middle East Scion yesterday and he wrote a piece kind of talking a little bit about.

[Ryan Grim]

That.

[Emma Vigeland]

The lack of support from Arab leaders in the region. And this is what we kind of suspected was likely to happen with Donald Trump. Yeah, maybe talking to people that the Biden administration was unwilling to do. But he's talking to them so he can get cold card cash in his hands. And Hearst made this point, this is a second generation of leaders in this region that are more removed from Oslo and more removed from the negotiation process of the 90s. And they are the kids of those people and they just care about getting rich. Right. So like we've also, the United States via our funding these undemocratic leaders in the region, we've kind of, we have succeeded in removing them from the will of the civilian populations that they rule over. And so they're kind of, they're very much like Trump. Right. Trump is a lot more like those guys than he is even a Benjamin Netanyahu or a Republican back here because they just care about getting wealthy via being in power.

[Ryan Grim]

Well, Netanyahu is not unlike them either. Sure, yeah, we, we just don't cover that element of it much in, in the Western press. But yeah, Netanyahu is theoretically constrained by.

[Sam Cedar]

Theoretically more constrained by popular opinion in Israel. But now we see where popular opinion in Israel is and.

[Ryan Grim]

Right.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, you know, yes, 70, 80% of the Israeli population now you know, saying forced displacement and ethnic cleansing, I mean however they phrase it.

[Ryan Grim]

But if you poll the population, they'll also say that if, if there's a deal to end the war and release all the hostages, they'll take that too. It's a kind of schizophrenic situation.

[Sam Cedar]

The thing is like how did that, how is there no awareness in Israel that, that the Hamas has offered this. That right there. Take it multiple occasions.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. For a year now, going back to maybe November, like 23.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. But then I question sometimes like you know, in polling it's just people aren't always honest. Right. I mean there's like you'll sometimes pollster.

[Ryan Grim]

Will contradict themselves here what motivated you.

[Emma Vigeland]

To vote for Trump or something. And people will, sometimes people will just say the economy. Cuz it Sounds smart. Although in this election, I definitely think, you know, the economy was the number one issue. But yeah, I mean, I'm just saying that Netanyahu, he's more like Dick Cheney. Just the financial interests, I think, of Trump here are there was hope that potentially this could open up a door. But right now the Palestinians are just being forgotten because everybody's more focused on getting. On getting rich right now.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah. And I think they would like to see this ended and be able to normalize relations, but they're not willing to take even the smallest amount of risk associated with that.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, it's a. It's a horror show. Lastly, let's just talk about a little bit about the. I don't know, there was a big story. One of the things that we're seeing over the course of the past week, starting with like a story in the Times about building some type of democratic communications infrastructure and ostensibly about, like, you know, people in our space a little bit.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Matt Binder]

I got an announcement to make.

[Sam Cedar]

I. Matt is leaving the show. He came in today in a Bugatti and no explanation.

[Ryan Grim]

Came in in a Honda and left in a Bugatti.

[Sam Cedar]

He had some type of side hustle, he said, with like, Edward Gregorian. Well, he had some type of side hustle. Armagowan making T shirts and just all drop shipped from things. I gotta be honest, I didn't even read the piece. I mean, because I, you know, like, I couldn't bring myself to. But it's fascinating to me. We see that article at the beginning of the week. We. By the end of the week, not only do we watch like the authoritarianism in terms of universities, we watched the FTC drop more or less giving a pardon as opposed to like dropping a lawsuit. I mean, it's quite clear there was some type of like, price collusion with Pepsi and Walmart. Probably some type of monopsonistic relationship. And then they're going after media matters, the ftc, ostensibly for, like, covering or driving, you know, advertisers away from Twitter or X or Musk is.

[Ryan Grim]

Musk is suing them into oblivion over that.

[Sam Cedar]

He's already been suing them into oblivion. And we watch, you know, the head of the ADL go and blame the murder of these two Israeli diplomats in D.C. on Hasan, asking for him to deplatformed.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, insanity.

[Sam Cedar]

And it's, I want to say, interesting, fascinating, but it's also rather disturbing. Like, this is the level of aggression. I mean, part of this is also a function of the. The D.C. excuse me, the New York City mayor race. It's being weaponized here as well for various reasons. What's your, like, how concerned are you getting these days? My ad, my read for delete me, I mean.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh no, I missed that.

[Sam Cedar]

Jeremy give you the coupon code?

[Ryan Grim]

Jeremy and I were on Chapo yesterday and they asked us the same question when we, the more, the more you get asked that, the more concerned you, the more. Yes. You know, we're, we're, we're building up our legal and you know, financial base to, to withstand hopefully whatever we can. You know, one of the major threats would be, you know, coming after our nonprofit status. But, and there's an organized campaign by some, some Zionist agitators to, to do that. But you know, we're, we're primarily subscriber and small donor based which most of those people are not like itemizing their taxes and writing off their, their small contributions to drop site. So even if they succeeded in, in that element of it, it wouldn't, it wouldn't destroy us there. You know, there's, but you know, it's a many, you know, there are many fronts on which they're, on which they're assaulting. It's also, you know, they have a, they have a moment in time, I think. Like, I don't, I, I don't think they're going to be able to lock the system down. Maybe I'm wrong about that. And if they do, then all bets are off. But I feel like the pendulum might still swing back against them.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I mean, this is the thing is that like, it does feel like there is, you know, they're in a getaway car. I mean, that's why, you know, I started this conversation talking about the budget like this is not a budget you would pass. If you were thinking about we've got a shot to win in 2026. This is a budget you pass where you say we're not going to win in 2026. Whatever we do now, we have to do so extreme that they won't be able to reverse anything, you know, by 2028. And maybe we'll have a second bite at the apple or whatnot. Like we've got to go for it. And I get the sense that the administration has a similar perspective on this, both on their assault of all the agencies. We can screw this up. We can, we can, we can, we can inflict this harm deep enough across as many places that regardless of what, you know, a Democratic led Congress comes in, even if we overestimate their willingness to be contentious and do investigations that we can do this stuff that even the specter of us returning is enough to you know, have this long term impact or you know, for that matter like, like we're talking about in these rural districts where they will never have the information that like wait a second, why did that hospital close?

[Ryan Grim]

Oh they won't. Or they won't have any, any outlet to express opposition to it because there won't be a like viable alternative.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigeland]

To vote for anyway because they're so deep red.

[Sam Cedar]

That's the thing is like I keep thinking like, you know, I. Two weeks ago I was in your mindset of like they're going to run out of time. But then the machine starts to crank up again and it feels like they're going for it. I mean, you know they're, that is the way that they all operate and it is a series of like little mini trumps everywhere. They all have, they're all trying to, you know, push the needle and you know, we just played, you know, what's her Face from DHS Christy Noemi. That letter feels like it was written like they didn't even run it through AI. Like it honestly feels like it was written by an intern.

[Ryan Grim]

Just banged it out.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, they just banged it out and they don't even care. They just know that they can just like drop bombs and she's up there, you know, who knows who's sitting in her office just like let's do this and see, you know.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, yeah. So if and when an opposition ever does take place, you know, take back power, it will be a dramatically different country. But I do feel like the getaway car analogy hopefully is correct. Like give given if it's either that or locking down long term control. You know, if these are guys who are in, in the safe of the bank and they know the cops are coming in, you know, four minutes and they're just grabbing everything they can and fleeing. That's awful. But that's what I mean about eventually, you know, they're gone now there's a lot of rebuilding to do and a lot, a lot will be destroyed beyond repair. But that, that means that there at least could be an opportunity to, to live another day.

[Sam Cedar]

How effective do you think it would be if there was members of Congress in the Democratic caucus who were saying things like this is law breaking and when we get into office, which we're going to, and you know this, it'll happen. It won't happen tomorrow, but it's going to happen one day. We're going to hold people to account. Like, I mean, we need to start hearing talk this way because if they're operating like they're grabbing every buck they can in the bank safe, there should be not only like sirens, but there should be some like, implication that like when the sirens get there, you know we're going to arrest you.

[Ryan Grim]

Like you might get away now, but like when we find you.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, right.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah. There's a, there's a tracker in that bag. I don't think they have the courage to say that because immediately DOJ will start investigating them for whatever. IRS will start coming after them now. So I think they'd rather just, I think they're, they all just want to lay low. They're all worried about personal and political implications.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, but that's also why they're going after people like lowest hanging fruit, immigrants, students that are here on visas, that have.

[Ryan Grim]

That's why they charged a member of Congress with assault.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yep, that's true. And that judge.

[Ryan Grim]

To let them know.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're working their way up. But it's very much like Stephen Miller is a bit of an ideological child of Roy Cohn. Like, I mean, some of the stuff with the red scare and the McCarthyism of these attacks on these students, it very much feels to me like a full circle moment for Trump's kind of political trajectory.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, no, he's a revolutionary. He's going for it.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yep.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, Ryan, real pleasure always going over this stuff with you.

[Ryan Grim]

Always a pleasure.

[Emma Vigeland]

Thanks, Ryan.

[Sam Cedar]

I feel like there was like a, I don't know, a three month period during the Biden administration where things were fun to talk about.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, almost six months up through the like Afghanistan withdrawal.

[Sam Cedar]

I would say February, the first six months of, of probably of 2021.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Ryan Grim]

Get that child tax credit. Yeah. Good times.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I guess maybe we get there every like four or five years maybe, if we're lucky. Ryan Graham will of course put a link to drop site. The work you guys are doing there is amazing. We spoke to Jeremy Scahill the other day or I guess maybe a week ago. I have no idea. And just the, the work you guys are doing is really crucial and it really is just not replicated anywhere. Really appreciate the work you're doing.

[Ryan Grim]

You know, our Middle east bureau chief, Sharif, I don't know if you know him. Sharif Abdel Kadus, just an incredible talent and like the stuff that he's able to, he and Jeremy, that they're able to produce alongside these reporters in Gaza is just profoundly so it's like, the best journalism, like, anywhere right now. It's amazing.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's amazing.

[Sam Cedar]

The, the breaking points. I mean, that type of stuff, that's a dime a dozen where you have.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, that's fine. Whatever.

[Sam Cedar]

The two hosts go back and. Yeah, but, but that is what it is.

[Matt Binder]

People should do it.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, Everybody. All it takes is, like, some IKEA stuff in the background and then you're, you're, you're golden.

[Ryan Grim]

But this is literally Ikea stuff.

[Sam Cedar]

Exactly. Well, this one, too, we put a gel on it, so that's what. That's all that takes. But I really appreciate the work. And we'll put a link to both Ryan Grimm. Just want to remind folks, again, we'll put this back up the. The bakery and day school. My understanding is that they lost. They lost. One of the kids going to the day school was killed by Israel the past couple of days. But they are, you know, attempting in this environment to, you know, provide food to the extent that they can and teach kids to the extent that they can. There. The. The short link is bit.ly gza. Not Gaza, but GZA Bakery, basically, because I think I forgot to put an A in there. But it's GZA Bakery. But we will put a link at Majority FM and in the podcast and YouTube go and help them raise funds to provide some schooling for kids there in what must be just an incredibly. I don't even know. I mean, I don't know how you. Hellish, hellish, hellish environment. I really don't know how many of the Valdagma family who are listed there were killed overnight near Khan Yunis by an Israeli drone attack. But, you know, it's awful. It is what it is. But we will put that link there and any support you can give, obviously, will be incredibly appreciated by those folks there, and they're doing what they can. All right, we're going to take a quick break, head into the fun half. Do our best. Tough week for fun.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's been tough.

[Sam Cedar]

Your support obviously helps this show continue on. I'd rather you give it to the Gaza Bakery and Future Flowers today. But, you know, keep that in mind with all the, you know, the media that you have out there, you know, place like drop site, that they are supported by their members and that they are supported by small donations that are not incumbent upon their tax status is really important because so much of what the Trump administration is doing is attempting to intimidate people. So much of what, you know, folks like the, you know, supposed Anti Defamation League is trying to do is intimidate people, get them to shut up and not report on this stuff, not amplify this stuff. I mean we don't really do reporting per se. What we do is just try and amplify the work of reporters. You know, whether we have them on the show or we're reading their, their reporting. And you know, eventually they'll get to us, but they want to get to the reporters in the bigger fish as, as a way of, of, of making an example of them. So you know, be conscious of, of organizations that you're supporting and understand how much your support to them means in terms of their ability to, to feel like, okay, they could come after our advertisers or they could attempt to deplatform us or something like this. But you know, if there is a, if you have a close relationship to your audience, it makes it much harder for them to come after you and you know, chill your, whatever it is that you have to say. So keep that in mind out there. And again we will put that link to the Gaza Bakery and the future Flowers Day school at Majority fm. Also just coffee co op Fair trade coffee. Use the coupon code. Majority get 10% off. Matt left reckoning.

[Matt Binder]

Yeah, left reckoning. On Sunday talked to Arun Ano on the Tamil genocide in Sri Lanka as well as India, Pakistan. I'm going to release that for everyone I think this weekend. And Dr. Chip Gibbons of Defending Rights and Dissent, which is another, which is, I mean I think compares favorably to definitely fire. Org and even the ACLU in terms of defending people's rights and working with congress people toward that end. But we talked about their coverage of Project Esther and uses of immigration law to clamp down on protests and long history of that. So check that out.

[Sam Cedar]

Patreon.com liftrecord See you in the so called fun half. You are in for it. All right folks. 646-257-3920 See you in the fun half. Are you ready? Who sent us this Anarchy.

[F]

Alpha males are back, back, back, back, back. Boy is back. And the alpha males are back, back.

[Sam Cedar]

Just as delicious as you could imagine.

[F]

The alpha males are back, back, back, back, back, back. And the alpha males are back, back.

[G]

Back, back Just want to degrade the white man.

[F]

Alpha males are back, back.

[Sam Cedar]

I take all of the two by.

[F]

Alpha males are back, back, back, back.

[Sam Cedar]

Snowflake says what?

[F]

The alpha males are back.

[G]

You are a madman.

[F]

And the alpha males are back, back.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh no.

[Sam Cedar]

Sam Cedar. What a wow.

[Ryan Grim]

What a nightmare. Nightmare.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. Or a couple of them. Just put them in rotation.

[G]

DJ, dinner.

[Matt Binder]

Well, the problem with those is they're like 45 seconds long, so I don't know if they're enough of a break.

[Ryan Grim]

That's nonsense.

[G]

See, white people doing drugs that look worse than normal white people. And all white people look disgusting.

[F]

And the alpha males psych them them.

[Sam Cedar]

Snowflake says, what, what, what, what? What? What?

[Ryan Grim]

What?

[Sam Cedar]

What, what, what, what, what, what, what.

[Ryan Grim]

What, what, what, what?

[F]

A hell of a lot of bank. A hell of a lot of bank. A hell of a lot of bank.

[G]

Okay, I'm making stupid money.

[F]

Hell of a lot of bank. A hell of a lot of bank. All lives matter.

[Matt Binder]

Have you tried doing an impression on a college campus?

[G]

I think that there's no reason why reasonable people across the divide can't all agree with this.

[Ryan Grim]

Psych.

[F]

And the alpha males are back, back, back, back, back, back and the Africans are black, black, black, black, black, African and the alpha males are black, black, black, black, black, black and the Africa.

[G]

See Donald Trump out there. Doesn't a little part of you think that America deserves to be taken over by jihadists? Keeping it 100. Can't knock the hustle. Come up, up them. Them things I do for the bigger game plan. By the way, it's my birthday. My birthday. Happy birthday to me, Jew boy.

[Sam Cedar]

I have a thought experiment for you.

[F]

And the alpha males are back, back Africans. Black, black alpha males are black, black Africans.

[G]

Come on, come on, come on. Someone needs to pay the price for blasphemy around here.

[Sam Cedar]

I am a total.