2520 - Israel's West Bank Annexation; Trump's ICE Gestapo w/ Jasper Nathaniel, Brad Lander

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Majority Report with Sam Seder – Episode 2520 Title: Israel's West Bank Annexation; Trump's ICE Gestapo Host: Sam Seder Release Date: June 18, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 2520 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder, host Sam Seder delves into two significant and pressing issues: the complete annexation of Israel's West Bank and the controversial actions of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) under former President Donald Trump's influence. The episode features insightful interviews with Jasper Nathaniel, a writer for Infinite Jazz and The Baffler, and Brad Lander, the Comptroller of New York City and a mayoral candidate facing ICE detention.

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Part 1: Israel's West Bank Annexation with Jasper Nathaniel

Guest: Jasper Nathaniel, Writer @InfiniteJazz.substack.com & The Baffler

Key Topics Covered:

1. Overview of the Annexation Process

   • Jasper Nathaniel discusses the historical context and the recent culmination of Israel's annexation of the West Bank.
   • Quote: “[...] the annexation of the West Bank is complete.” ([Sam Seder, 00:17])

2. Role of Basil Smotrich in the Annexation

   • Smotrich, Israel's Finance Minister and a pivotal figure in the annexation, leveraged his dual roles to facilitate the process.
   • Quote: “Smotrich had to undercut the military system to take over more land and force Palestinians off the land.” ([Jasper Nathaniel, 39:10])

3. Legal Implications and Area Divisions

   • The podcast explores the division of the West Bank into Areas A, B, and C, as established by the Oslo Accords.
   • Jasper explains how Smotrich's policies are eroding these divisions to effectively annex the entire West Bank.
   • Quote: “He understands that moving security into an umbrella term helps accelerate annexation.” ([Jasper Nathaniel, 28:55])

4. Impact on Palestinian Communities

   • Detailed discussion on the displacement and marginalization of Palestinians, including restrictions on building bomb shelters and increased settler aggression.
   • Quote: “Outposts are being established systematically, terrorizing Palestinian communities until they leave.” ([Jasper Nathaniel, 40:39])

5. Future Prospects and International Response

   • Analysis of potential international backlash and the destabilizing effects of a fragmented Palestinian territory.
   • Quote: “It's becoming harder to argue for a two-state solution as the landmass fractures into smaller territories.” ([Jasper Nathaniel, 43:47])

Notable Highlights:

• Jasper Nathaniel provides a comprehensive breakdown of the Decisive Plan initiated by Smotrich in 2017, outlining three dire options for Palestinians: assimilation as second-class citizens, self-exile with financial compensation, or extermination.
• The discussion underscores how Smotrich's technocratic maneuvering within the Israeli government has effectively nullified military and legal barriers to annexation.
• Jasper emphasizes the role of legislative changes that allow Israeli laws to supersede the Hague Convention and Geneva laws in the West Bank, facilitating the annexation process.

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Part 2: Trump's ICE Gestapo and Brad Lander's Detention

Guest: Brad Lander, New York City Comptroller and Mayoral Candidate

Key Topics Covered:

1. Incident Overview

   • Brad Lander recounts his recent detention by ICE agents while acting as a "friend of the court" to support individuals facing expedited removal.
   • Quote: “[...] no charges have been brought against me and the case is under review.” ([Brad Lander, 52:33])

2. Changes in ICE Policies

   • Discussion on the Department of Homeland Security's shift towards dismissing asylum cases, leading to expedited removals without due process.
   • Quote: “Previously, individuals would have a credible fear hearing, but now their cases are dismissed immediately.” ([Brad Lander, 56:26])

3. Due Process Concerns

   • Brad highlights the erosion of the rule of law, emphasizing the lack of legal representation and the absence of judicial warrants in detentions.
   • Quote: “The judge tells you you have 30 days to appeal, but you don’t know how to, and you're leaving without any due process.” ([Brad Lander, 61:17])

4. Political Dynamics and Reactions

   • Analysis of the divide within Democratic leadership, contrasting progressive fighters like Lander with more moderate or compromised figures like Eric Adams and Andrew Cuomo.
   • Quote: “The line right now is not between progressives and moderates. It's between fighters and fakers.” ([Brad Lander, 73:10])

5. Call to Action and Support for Immigrants

   • Brad urges listeners to support organizations like Immigration ARC and to participate in nonviolent protests to uphold democratic principles.
   • Quote: “We insist on the rule of law. We show up and bear witness.” ([Brad Lander, 74:44])

Notable Highlights:

• Brad details the harrowing experience of attempting to escort families being forcibly removed, highlighting systemic abuses and the urgent need for legal reforms.
• He criticizes Mayor Eric Adams and former Governor Andrew Cuomo for their perceived inaction and complicity with ICE policies.
• The discussion underscores the importance of grassroots activism and legislative support to counteract the aggressive immigration enforcement tactics.

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Closing Remarks

Sam Seder wraps up the episode by reinforcing the gravity of both Israel's annexation of the West Bank and the stripping away of due process in U.S. immigration policies. He emphasizes the need for continued activism, informed voting, and supporting progressive candidates and organizations fighting against these oppressive measures.

Final Quote: “This is how close we are to getting sucked into this [conflict with Iran].” ([Sam Seder, 16:22])

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Key Takeaways

• Israel's Annexation: Led by Basil Smotrich, Israel has systematically dismantled legal and military barriers to annex the West Bank, resulting in the displacement and subjugation of Palestinian communities. This move undermines international laws and the feasibility of a two-state solution.

• U.S. Immigration Crisis: Under Trump’s influence, ICE has adopted more aggressive policies that bypass due process, leading to expedited removals of immigrants without fair hearings. This shift represents a significant erosion of democratic principles and the rule of law in the United States.

• Political Implications: Both topics highlight deep-seated political struggles—whether it’s the consolidation of power in Israel or the internal divisions within the Democratic Party in the U.S.—and the critical need for informed and active participation in combating these injustices.

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Resources Mentioned

• Jasper Nathaniel's Work:

  • Infinite Jazz Substack: infinitejazz.substack.com
  • The Baffler Article: "The Annexation of the West Bank is Complete"

• Brad Lander's Initiatives:

  • Immigration ARC: Supporting legal assistance and accompaniment for immigrants facing expedited removal.

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This summary provides an in-depth overview of Episode 2520 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder, capturing the essential discussions, insights, and critical viewpoints presented by the guests.

Transcript

[Emma Vigeland]

You are listening to a free version of the Majority Report. Support this [e-mail] and get an extra hour of content daily.

[Sam Seder]

It is Wednesday, June 18, 2025. My name is Sam Seder. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, Downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today, Jasper Nathaniel, [e-mail] and in the baffler writing the annexation of the west bank is complete. Also on the program, New York City Comptroller mayoral candidate Brad Lander in the wake of his well publicized detention by ICE yesterday. Also on the program today, Donald Trump says the United States may or may not strike Iran.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's it's good to know he's decisive leader.

[Sam Seder]

Iran warns the United States to stay out as it lines up its attack lines in the Middle East. Meanwhile, Supreme Court upholds the Tennessee ban on gender affirming care for minors. Also not only going to have implications on the 22 other states that have such a ban, could potentially set up a ban on gender affirming care for anybody. Fed is expected to leave rates unchanged. Senate passes its crypto so called genius act unleashing a huge threat to our financial system. I believe it was 18 Democrats who were set to vote for that Trump EPA seeking to reverse a ban on asbestos. Yes, asbestos. John Fetterman to vote against Tim Kaine's war powers resolution because blood thirstiness never takes a day off. JD Vance begs the Republican Senate to pass the reconciliation rich giveaway bill by next week. And a truck carrying an M1 tank after the Trump army parade kills a pedestrian in downtown Washington D.C. meanwhile, Taco Trump gives TikTok another extension.

[Emma Vigeland]

What is this bull?

[Brad Lander]

Come on.

[Sam Seder]

No side deals with TikTok. Alex Jones accused of hiding money from Sandy Hook parents. And a new documentary that exposes Jim Jordan's role in the Ohio state predator cover up is released on hbo. Max all this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen.

[Emma Vigeland]

It is news day Tuesday, but we had. Well, no, it's not. I came in on Tuesday. It's hump day.

[Unknown]

Dang it.

[Sam Seder]

Yep. So close. So close.

[Unknown]

You kind of lost. I think you lose a trademark if you.

[Sam Seder]

That is.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh my God. My pay is being cut in half.

[Sam Seder]

So close.

[Emma Vigeland]

Just with one mistake.

[Sam Seder]

Things were going so well around here. We were all, we were starting two minutes early today and there it goes. I just a couple of things I just want to a little house cleaning up front. On Wednesday of next week, we will have Chase Strangio, who argued that case in front of the Supreme Court that was decided today. It's the Scarmetti case, if I'm not mistaken. This has is going to have really broad implications for trans folk across the board because at the center of this case was an argument that in some way reverses Bostock, that discrimination that has that could not take place but for issues of sex or gender was prior to this case found illegal. So we will be talking to Chase on Wednesday about that. Obviously, we have a lot of stuff to get to the one of the biggest stories of the 50 biggest stories that we have going on in addition to the reconciliation bill David Dayan will be in Friday. We will be talking about that. Bill then is of course the potential for the United States to get involved in a war with Iran and it is creating some fissures on the right. I think we talked about this yesterday. The reason why we're seeing these fissures is because I think of the size and the nature of the size of the right wing media now and the nature of media writ large because many of these fissures existed in the run up to the Iraq war, but they were much more marginalized. But now marginal fissures can push to the center more because of the nature of social media.

[Emma Vigeland]

Tucker, Fox News used to be the only show in town with all that funding behind it. And you have Tucker Carlson is backed by Elon Musk's money here, right? He has his show on on X. You got I mean the Daily Wire is falling apart, but you have the PBD guys. Who knows how much money they're getting from right wing sour. There's just a lot of them. You can be a little bit more bespoke with your right wing reactionary content now.

[Sam Seder]

And we should say, you know, I think I mentioned this yesterday, Jeanine Garofalo, I had co hosted with Tucker CARLSON Back in 2003, whatever the name of Crossfire. And Tucker Carlson at that time was promoting the Iraq war, but he wasn't really into it, I think was the quote that I heard about their conversation backstage. And he later on a radio program like a morning zoo show called the Iraqis Monkeys and said I don't care.

[Unknown]

About that semi literate, I think was.

[Sam Seder]

And so his lack of interest in engaging in that part of the world has been consistent. Not necessarily for reasons that you might agree with, but just because rooted in.

[Emma Vigeland]

Bigotry, as is all of the right wing Isolationism, whereas I don't want to waste my time with these dirty, you know, people in the Middle east basically is fundamentally what they'll say or if it's rooted in this kind of like anti Semitic conspiracy theory that the Jews are starting all the wars.

[Sam Seder]

100% understand you can be, you can have an issue with Israel because it is an ethno nationalist state running an apartheid regime, among other problems, or you can have an issue with Israel because you see as a Jewish nation because they don't have a problem. These people did not have a problem with South Africa. I can, I can assure you of that.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yep.

[Unknown]

Tucker literally told Trump about the South Africa white genocide conspiracy theory in 2018. Trump tweeted, thanking him for bringing it to his attention.

[Emma Vigeland]

And now we're bringing over white refugees from there.

[Sam Seder]

Nevertheless, nevertheless, particularly in a run up to war, any type of fractures are helpful. And you know, like we say, a broken clock is right twice a day. You still don't want to carry around that clock to tell you time. But this was an interesting exchange with Tucker Carlson and his fellow podcaster Ted Cruz, who also moonlights at a senator.

[Ted Cruz]

How many people live in Iran, by the way?

[Brad Lander]

I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population.

[Ted Cruz]

You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple.

[Brad Lander]

How many people live in Iran?

[Ted Cruz]

92 million.

[Sam Seder]

Okay. Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

How could you not know that?

[Brad Lander]

I don't sit around memorizing population tables.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.

[Brad Lander]

Why is it relevant whether it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million?

[Sam Seder]

Now this is, this is where Ted Cruz, law school student, lawyer, former moot court debater is, is pretty good. Why is it relevant whether it's 80 million or 90 million or 100 million? I get news for you. It had Tucker said it's 16 million, Ted Cruz would have said, what difference does it make? It 16 million, 20 million, 18 million.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Sam Seder]

Ted Cruz had no idea that, that Iran was so large. Absolutely. I would, I will go to my grave. I will tell you that had Tucker Carlson said it's 20 million, that Ted Cruz would not have batted an eye and would have said what's the difference? 20, 21, 25 should have made him guess.

[Emma Vigeland]

It was, it was interesting to see also the glee on Tucker's face where he feel like, feels like he got him, but he did. The reason it's relevant is, as Tucker Carlson said, you're calling for Regime change in this country, which was also the almost identical to the calls prior to the Iraq war, which is half the size of population and a fourth in the size of geography.

[Ted Cruz]

Because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.

[Brad Lander]

Why is it relevant whether it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million?

[Sam Seder]

Why?

[Ted Cruz]

Because if you don't know anything about the country.

[Brad Lander]

I didn't say I don't know anything about.

[Ted Cruz]

Okay. What's the ethnic mix of Iran?

[Brad Lander]

They are Persians and predominantly Shia. Okay.

[Ted Cruz]

You don't know anything about Iran.

[Sam Seder]

So. Okay.

[Brad Lander]

I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran.

[Ted Cruz]

You're a senator who's calling.

[Brad Lander]

You're the one who claims anything about the country. No, you don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump. Who can't figure out.

[Sam Seder]

I don't know why. We should probably do a little breaking news here. 90 million people trying to kill Donald Trump.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

That's the nature of the country. The entire country trying to kill Donald Trump. Also, why are they doing that?

[Unknown]

History lesson. Maybe because we did an assassination on one of their top leaders.

[Emma Vigeland]

This should. This. There's no basis for this. Claim the shooter. There's no evidence seen that the shooter was more than a lone wolf trying to make a name for himself. But this is him, a PAC awash in AIPAC money. Ted Cruz doing Netanyahu's bidding, trying to appeal to Donald Trump's messiah complex that apparently he's completely bought into, that he now has a mandate from God that saved him, like the reporting says, that that is what he truly believes after the assassination attempt. So he's trying to appeal to his ego here. Yeah, God did that. Right. And it could work. That's what's scary. Because Trump has no moral character.

[Sam Seder]

Well, the irony is, is that I am quite convinced, although I'm not ex. Exactly sure of this, that Trump at one point did reference George Bush, George W. Bush wanting to invade and overthrow Saddam Hussein because Saddam Hussein had a plot to kill George Herbert Walker Bush. I mean, I would never protect my dad, but me. Wait a second. All right, go back just a little bit. Senator.

[Ted Cruz]

Who's calling?

[Brad Lander]

You're the one who's the one who.

[Ted Cruz]

Claims about the country.

[Brad Lander]

No, you don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump.

[Ted Cruz]

I'm not saying that.

[Brad Lander]

Who can't figure out if it's a good idea to kill General Soleimani and You said it was bad.

[Ted Cruz]

They're trying to murder Trump.

[Brad Lander]

Yes, I do.

[Ted Cruz]

Because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation. And if they really believe that they're.

[Brad Lander]

Carrying out military strikes today. You said Israel was right with our help. I said we. Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, this. You're breaking news here because the US Government last night denied. The National Security Council spokesman, Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity.

[Brad Lander]

We're not bombing them. Israel's bombing them.

[Ted Cruz]

You just said we were.

[Brad Lander]

We are supporting Israel.

[Sam Seder]

Thanks.

[Brad Lander]

You're a senator.

[Ted Cruz]

If you're saying the United States government is. We're with Iran right now. People are listening.

[Sam Seder]

God, honestly, like, it is fun to watch Tucker Carlson's creepy, petty cackle, weird cackle deployed against someone who is equally creepy, cackling and loathsome. I mean, this is. If there was ever a moment where we should play the drop, let them fight. This is it.

[Emma Vigeland]

You know, when you see. This is your face when you accidentally reveal state secrets on Tucker Carlson's program. Do you remember this?

[Unknown]

That was that the porn that Ted like.

[Emma Vigeland]

So that was that woman making that face. That's my joke for the day.

[Sam Seder]

Oh, all right.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, he just revealed that we were involved, which Trump is denying.

[Sam Seder]

It's the royal way. It's the royal way, as in me.

[Emma Vigeland]

And the Israel lobby, the 51st state.

[Sam Seder]

I mean, this is first off, I mean, aside from fact that Tucker Carlson tricked Ted Cruz into admitting that we the United States, or maybe he means his family is involved in helping the Israelis bomb Iran. Iran. This. I mean, this is so dangerous. Because if Iran is in the position of not being able to pretend that the United States is not involved in this, they're going to have domestic pressure to attack U.S. assets, and then Donald Trump is going to attack. I mean, that is where we're at at this point, unfortunately. You know, Ted Cruz may be considered enough of a joke, and Tucker Carlson's program is considered enough of a joke that this was not going to be taken seriously. But this is how. This is how close we are to getting sucked into this. And Donald Trump is obviously, like, going back and forth. It depends on, you know, which of his last advisers he will be talking to. You know, Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity are going to have to duke it out in some arena or something. But we are very, very close to getting sucked into this.

[Emma Vigeland]

And the reason the size of the country so relevant is because of how much of a boondoggle Iraq was. Just compare it and Iraq, we killed up to a million people. Like this was such the fact that this country's memory hold. This is crazy. And what Trump is hearing from Netanyahu is Hezbollah is severely weakened. Syria, their Assad was toppled, who was allied with the Iranians and with the Russians and that this is the time to strike. This has been the wet dream of neocons since the pre Iraq War days. And what he's hearing from Netanyahu and all of those other hawks in his administration, which, you know, whatever he can be swayed is now's the time to strike. And that's why it's so important that because we're not in power right now. It's only the Republicans in the House and Senate. If Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene are going to say don't do this, we have to take it for right now.

[Sam Seder]

All right, in a moment we're going to be talking to Jasper Nathaniel, writer at Infinite Jazz Substack, writing also in the Baffler huge piece. The annexation of the west bank is complete. But first a word from our sponsor. Delete Me is a product that I've been using for now 10 years in some respects for obvious reasons. Now with even more reasons. But originally I was using this because I wanted to make it more difficult to dox me. There I said it. I don't know why I had to be so hesitant to say that. But you know, we're in a controversial. Our job is a little bit controversial and I like to make fun of right wing people and sometimes some of those people, you know. Anyways, Delete Me makes it quick, easy and quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time where when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. Delete Me knows your privacy is worth protecting. Sign up, provide Delete Me with exactly what information you want deleted and their experts take it from there. Delete Me sends you regular personalized privacy reports showing what info they found, where they found it and what they removed. Plus you even occasionally get stuff from other brokerage sites that say we have received a request to remove your data. If this is not you, you know. And because Delete Me is constantly doing this on your behalf, I want to thank Delete Me for sponsoring today's episode with Delete Me. I protect both my personal privacy, my family's privacy, privacy of my business, etc. Etc. Also inhibits the ability of scammers and Internet fishers from finding sort of extra information about you. Even if it's just like your email and your name that they send you an email. Hey, it's, you know, TD bank and Sam and your, your, your account needs some attention here. Put your credit card number at, in at this link and if you're, you know, you're, if you're lucky, you realize like I don't have an account at TD Bank. TD bank, what's going on? Or if you happen to be unlucky, like I do have an account there. Oh gosh, I should click on this. Bye bye. So you can take control of your data. Keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me. It's now at a special discount for you. Get 20% off your delete Me plan by texting the word majority to 64,000. The only way to get 20% off is to text majority to 64,000. That's majority to the number 64000 message. And data rates may apply. We'll put the, put that information in the podcast and YouTube descriptions. Going to take quick break. We'll be right back with Jasper Nathaniel and then later in the program, New York City comptroller and mayoral candidate Brad Lander.

[Unknown]

It.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Sam.

[Sam Seder]

We are back. Sam Cedar, Emma Vigland on the Majority Report. Want to welcome back to the program Jasper Nathaniel. He is a [e-mail] want to recommend this newsletter to everyone. We'll put that link in the podcast and YouTube description and you can see.

[Emma Vigeland]

It down below if you're watching on, on YouTube, folks.

[Sam Seder]

Oh great. Wherever there it is right down there. And also has a piece in the Baffler. The annexation of the west bank is complete. Jasper, welcome to the program. Just starting off, we know that Donald Trump made promises to Miriam Adelson in 2020 and that was I will move the Capitol or we will recognize the United States will recognize Jerusalem as the Israeli capital. He ended up, at one point I think he said I gave her the Golan Heights just as like a, like a bonus gift. And this time around she gave him about $120 million for the promise of supporting the annexation of the West Bank. And in the meantime, the Israelis have basically been gearing up to this, you know, arguably for 30 or 40 years, but certainly more intensely over the past five.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah, I mean do we think Donald Trump can point to the west bank on a map? Is there any chance at all? I mean I honestly, I think that.

[Sam Seder]

For Trump.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

He just, it just doesn't even cross his mind. So I think that when, like, you hear Smotrich talk about this huge opportunity now that Trump is president, to basically have sovereignty over all, you know, what they call Judea and Samaria. And I don't know that it's like an ideological thing as much as it's just as I write in this piece, the idea of the west bank remaining the part of the sort of Palestinian state when that two state solution finally comes around was just like the sort of central tenet needed for Western governments to maintain this fiction that there was a second Palestinian or that there was a Palestinian state coming. And Trump doesn't even pay lip service to that. So I think that Smoter and the right wingers are basically just like, okay, time to go nuts.

[Sam Seder]

All right, well, let's tell us who, for folks who don't know who is the finance mentor, Bazelle Smotrick.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah. Basil Smotrich. He's. He grew. He actually was born in the Goan Heights in a settlement there, and now he lives with his family in a settlement in the West Bank. I mean, I'll put it this way. He was one of these sort of extremist settlers that you see on TV today, like, or on, on the Internet in videos, like, raiding Palestinian villages, throwing rocks, lighting their cars and homes on fire. That's what he grew up doing. And he's open, very open about that. But when he was younger, there was actually sort of an adversarial relationship between the settlers and the military in many cases, because the military wanted to maintain order and Smoter Rich was at odds with them. And he was arrested several times, actually, and even charged with, I think, support for terrorism, but don't hold me to that. And then he became a lawyer and he started a group whose job was to basically fight the state of Israel when it ruled against constructing illegal outposts or settlements and that sort of a thing. So he's been fighting against the state his entire life. Basically, fast forward, he becomes a politician, he's a member of the Knesset, and then he becomes the finance minister at the end of 2022, when Netanyahu basically was forced to form a coalition with these, like, extremist parties in order to come back into power. That's the background on him. I can get into sort of like what's happened since then, if you want.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, I guess I'm a little bit curious if you could flesh out, Jasper, how the religious fundamentalist extremist in Israel, like, is it overstated to say that they were in opposition recently? I'm not talking about when Smotrich was coming up, because since October 7, the alliance of the most religious fundamentalist Israelis and these far right parties and Likud has been fairly seamless. I mean, you hear some palace intrigue and drama, but largely they've been a unified front in both the genocide in Gaza and then the annexation of the West Bank.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

That's, that's true for the most part. But actually right up until they struck Iran, the coalition was pretty much at its most fragile point it's been in years, specifically because Netanyahu obviously wants this forever war. But they're running out of troops, reserves, don't want to show up anymore. They were getting ready to basically abolish this rule that said that the ultra orthodox yeshiva students don't have to serve like everybody else. So they were getting ready to hand out draft cards to all these people in yeshiva studying yeshivas. And some of the religious members of the Knesset were basically rebelling against it. And there was just a no confidence vote. I can't remember if it was right before or right after the Iran strikes, but he was right before Thursday, the.

[Sam Seder]

Thursday before the strikes.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah. And you know, perhaps they knew what was coming, but I think like for all intents and purposes, they've been a unified front across pretty much everything.

[Sam Seder]

Just before we go into what Smotuk has been doing, and on some level, like I think what we're seeing is there has been a decades long project to create facts on the ground where they will put, where Israel will create settlements that will just make it harder to make an argument that this, that this land can be returned to Palestinians. That, and to sort of almost like break some of the social structure of Palestinians living in the West Bank. And that has accelerated at an incredible rate over the past particularly like four or five years. But give us a sense of how the Israeli government works so that we can understand how Smotrick has been able to position himself and has been given the authority to essentially almost in some ways unilaterally go ahead doing this. And I want to make it clear I'm not saying that there isn't culpability to go across the Israeli leadership because they have willingly gone along with it, but he is sort of almost politically protected on some level and been in a unique position to implement this project.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah, no, I mean this is, this has been pretty well reported in Israel and there's been a little bit of reporting of it in the US but not nearly enough because most people that I talk to who are following all this pretty closely actually are not even aware of this sort of reverse coup that the smoterch pulled off. So basically when Israel occupied the West bank in 1967 after the Six Day War, they began a formal military occupation which is actually like an internationally recognized status. And because of that there are actual legal obligations to adhere to the laws from the Hague Convention and Geneva. And those laws in essence say that the occupying power is temporarily administrating the territory and must protect the well being of the occupied residents. So they're not allowed to do anything that is against the well being of the residents or anything that would form like a temporary, excuse me, a permanent presence of Israel there. And so I want to be very clear, like the military occupation in the west bank is unspeakably cruel. I've witnessed it firsthand. I mean, of course, I'm sure all of your listeners are very familiar with this and they uphold just a brutal apartheid regime. But in a strange way, the military occupation has provided some insulation against these really expansionist politicians in Israel. Because every move that the Smotriches, the settlers, want to make, to expand settlements, to change laws, all these things they'd have to contend with the lawyers with the military who are, you know, I'm not going to say they're pro Palestine, but these are loyals, excuse me, these are lawyers and they're like at least nominally adhering to a set of laws. And I'll say the military, you know, it's certainly full of ideologues now, and I'm sure it always has been, but they are not the same. The people who have run the military in Israel are not these like die hard messianic figures like Smotrich who think that it's, you know, their purpose on earth to take over the West Bank. They're there to basically rule with an iron fist, to maintain order. And so all that is to say that when Smotrich wanted to begin his sort of takeover of the west bank, he understood that what he had to do was undercut that system of military rule, because that's what was posing all these different obstacles. So right after the election in 2022. So in early February 2023, Smoturch forms an agreement with then Defense Minister Yoav Gauand. It's sort of unclear exactly where the pressure was coming from on Gauandt to do this, although again, like it was a very fragile coalition. Smotrich had a lot of power at that point. But they form an agreement to make Smotrich an additional minister in The Ministry of Defense, like, that's his actual title. So you've got the Minister of Defense, which was gaunt at the time, is now Katz. And then you had the additional minister in the Ministry of Defense, which was Smotieric. And Smoteric was given power over this newly created organization inside the Defense Department called the Settlement Administration, which was basically created to just own all things related to the settlements and to just route everything away from the military and to these political appointees that Smotrich was making while still being nominally under this sort of military structure. So that's the basic, like, structural change he created.

[Sam Seder]

And we should also say he's also the Finance Minister at this time, outside of the Defense Department or the IDF structure. So he has a separate, like, base of power, if you will. He controls. He's like, basically the Secretary of the Treasury. And so he's got this sort of like. He's approaching this from, like, almost two. From two different angles.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah, there's this quote during a conference, I think it was last June. He's speaking at one of these, like, settler conferences that was not open to the public, but it leaked. And he's talking about how he's been able to get just this inordinate amount of funding to go into building settlements, into settlement roads, into illegal outposts, basically, like just a disproportionate amount of Israel's state federal budget went into the settlements. And he explains it by saying. He makes a joke. He says the Minister of Finance and the. The Minister of Finance and the additional Minister of Defense know each other. So somehow there was budget. And what he's saying is they're both me. So I make the call for what we're going to do. I confirm the budgets we routed all the way from the military lawyers. And yeah, he's been able to just basically go nuts.

[Sam Seder]

So the way in which. Talk about the division of the west bank into sort of three different categories, A, B and C, because that seems to be the sort of his backdoor way of getting out from under, of choosing which areas in which there is not the same sort of, like, restrictions from a military perspective.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah, I think that the way I'll. The way it's helpful to think about this is like there's. He has two different fronts on this. This war against what I'll call the military occupation, which is really what it is. So one front is basically eroding the green Line that separates Israel from the occupied West Bank. And what that actually means is all of the laws that currently govern Israel they're passing all this legislation now to make those laws govern the west bank as well, which again, is not what it's supposed to be. This is a military occupation. It's not part of the state of Israel. But now all these different laws in Israel are also laws in the west bank, which is in effect, annexation. So that's sort of part one of it. Part two of it is from the inside, which is what you're describing, Sam. Basically, after the Oslo Accords, two in the mid-90s, they divide the west bank into Areas A, B and C. Area A is ruled in theory entirely by the Palestinian Authority. Security and administrative stuff. Area B is Palestinian Authority administered, but IDF and PA joint security. And then Area C, Israel controls everything. But Israel doesn't own that land. They don't own any of it, or they're not supposed to at least. And so part of what they're doing now, like the big news in the last week or so, is they're, they're doing this land registration process. So what that basically means is that the Israeli government is auditing land rights across all of Area C in the west bank, which is 60% of the west bank, and all of the deeds that are owned by actual Palestinians, which most of them date back to Jordanian rule, they're just no good in the eyes of Israel. Of course, PA deeds are no good in the eyes of Israel. So any land that's not currently registered, in other words, any land that's registered to Palestinians, Israel is now just naming state land. So what that means is that all this area, all this land in Area C is now basically becoming Israeli land. And so a lot of the laws that they're passing and the policy initiatives to your question, Sam, are about just having Israel like take over full control of Area C. But then a lot of the laws also are about trying to sort of undermine that division too. So allowing them to treat Area B and Area A the same way that they would treat Area C. That makes sense.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, it does make sense. And I'm curious if you could just explain. I know you've been to the west bank often and done reporting there on the ground. Like one, what this, what the slow rolling annexation looks like in practice. But two, even prior to like this escalation post October 7th, this was in process is my understanding, where Palestinians would try to get recourse via the Israeli court system. And it was almost universal every single time. The Israeli courts, who for some reason have dominion over this, even though it's supposedly Palestinian territory, would always side against Palestinian claims of their deeds and their land rights and basically say, no, actually, this gets to be. Your house is Israeli now.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah. It's hard to imagine why the Israeli court system would be prejudiced against the Palestinians, but suffice to say, you're right, Emma. Like, all this started before October 7th. I mean, it's been going on for decades, but it really escalated at the end of 2022 when this new government came in. And, you know, the judicial coup that there were huge protests in Israel before the war, a lot of that was about, like, undermining the judiciary system's ability to have oversight over law so that this government could just, like, make all the calls. After October 7, though, a couple things happened. One of them is that, again, like, legally, according to international law, Israel has the right to act in accordance with security in the west bank. So after October 7th, Smoturch basically takes this idea of security and broadens it to encompass any activity at all by the Palestinian Authority, which is the governing body over Palestinians in the West Bank. And so based on that, they're able to stop construction, to do demolitions, to go into areas A, B and C and conduct military operations. So they basically just like, turn security into an umbrella term is the first thing. The second thing is that, frankly, like, to the extent that people in Israel cared about the settlement movement and were against it, they just, at the very least, stop paying attention to what was happening there. And just, you know, that that is basically what Smotrich has really capitalized on, is understanding that not only people stop paying attention, but they'll do anything for security. And like, the settlers in the west bank really frame themselves as, like, the security buffer between Israel and Jordan and the rest of the Middle East. And basically, just everything that's happened since October 7th, there's nothing really categorically new. Everything's just gotten much worse. And so what that means is, like, one tangible example. Outposts, which are basically illegal settlements, even by Israeli law, which used to get occasionally torn down by the military. Smoterich and Ben GVIR actually just actually like, put a stop to that. So now settlers can go from outposts wherever they want, and they're doing it systematically, like, right next to Palestinian communities, and then they go and terrorize them until they leave. And I think, like, over 60 communities have actually picked up and left since then. So that's just like, one tangible thing. Obviously, movement restrictions have gotten much worse. The settlement building is just. I mean, I called him my piece a period of abundance, because they have essentially Just gotten rid of every check and balance to be able to just build whatever they want from a settlement perspective. So I don't want anybody to think that like Smoturch came in and started all this. This had been going on for a while, but he did sort of an extraordinary job of getting rid of all the obstacles in the way so that they could just take over more land and force the Palestinians off the land.

[Sam Seder]

And we should say that at least in the immediate wake of the October 7 attack, people were pointing to the removal of IDF soldiers from the Gaza border to the west bank to enforce the appropriate expropriation of property that Smoke was involved in leading up from 2022 into 2023, because they were basically committing programs, for lack of a better word, at that time. And the military was there to essentially protect the perpetrators of those. All right, we just, we have just a little bit of time. Tell us about E1 and this project. Because this seems to be sort of the. I don't want to say the coup de grace, but this seems to be the sort of the big physical, the culmination of this notion of facts on the ground.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah, E1 is a very like, strategic pot of land that basically extends from East Jerusalem, which is like technically just outside the west bank on the west, and then it goes through Jerusalem directly to a settlement. And then what it does is it cuts off East Jerusalem, Palestinian East Jerusalem, from the west bank, and it cuts off the Palestinian villages in the northern occupied west bank from the southern occupied West Bank. So it's a strip of land that basically would take the three ostensibly Palestinian administered parts of East Jerusalem and the west bank and just cut them off from each other in the same way that Gaza is cut off from the west bank, basically. And because of that, it's been for various reasons, like very taboo for Israel to do any building there. In other words, like the Western governments that support Israel almost unconditionally, but again, need to maintain that idea of a potential two state solution, have forbidden Israel from building any one. And there's actually an instance when in 2023, I think. Yeah, in July 2023. So a couple months before October 7th, Smoter tried to start building there. And the Biden administration actually rebuked them and said, you can't do that. And they backed off. And so it's been like actually in the works for 30 years. Like it was Yitzhak Rabin who initially had the idea, you know, the great progressive Israeli leader. And so now basically they're doing it and they're getting ready to start building settlements. There's, it'll be the biggest settlement expansion in decades. And it is again, it's going to effectively just turn the west bank into even more of a patchwork than it already is of Palestinian territory. And I guess at that point we'd be talking about four or five Palestinian states. So maybe a six state solution in the end.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. I mean this is what I just feel like gets so missed in and increasingly less so because obviously the brutality in Gaza is hopefully waking some people up. But like the fracturing of the landmass in and of itself is a way to undercut the idea of a Palestinian state. There was a, like Zach Beauchamp of Vox maybe 10 years ago wrote that he thought that there was a bridge between Gaza and the west bank, which is not true. But like that, that's the reason that there's no bridge or no connection is because it's much harder to create a state when they're, when they're divided into five, six little smaller territories.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah, and let me just make like put a fine point on that. Smoterich. No, he's, he's very savvy. He's not like, I think Ben Gabir is a big idiot and he's been effective in various ways. But Smoturch is, is much more sort of like technocratic and behind the scenes. And he said many, many years ago that he thought like announcing that Israel had annexed the west bank would be a mistake because that could trigger blowback from the US from different Western states. So what he basically said is we need to establish facts on the ground, like you said Sam, but, but not just like in the form of building and construction, but also in the form of laws so that all of the laws of Israel apply to the west bank as well. So that when we're out of power, as in if one day, you know, the left of Israel is actually able to get its act together and rule Israel, you know, a fantasy perhaps. But even if that were to happen, they would have an entirely new legal infrastructure to contend with in order to like reverse everything that happened that, that essentially de facto annexed the West Bank.

[Sam Seder]

So with that in mind, I mean Smotrik has basically there are three things that can happen to the Palestinians. They can get absorbed into Israeli society, I guess, but presumably as second class citizens.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, for example, like there was a report that they're not even letting the Palestinians of Israel into bomb shelters right now.

[Sam Seder]

Yes. And we should also say there is also, I have been Asked in a debate once, did you know that there are no bomb shelters in Gaza? It also seems that even within the context of Israel and certainly within the west bank, there are bomb shelters because. Not because they're made privately, but because the Israeli government provides money for it. And in Palestinian communities that are occupied, they're, they are not allowed to build bomb shelters.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Not only at this point.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, but so there are three things. One is the, they will get absorbed into Israeli society as second class citizens. Two is they will just decide to leave because their lives have been made so miserable. Self deport, I guess, although it's not really deporting, it's really self exile.

[Emma Vigeland]

Being, being cleansed, Being ethnically cleansed. Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

And. Or they' die. And we've seen that project take place in Gaza is. But are we like the, the interesting thing about Smotrick saying he doesn't want to sort of publicly say that we're annexing the west bank at one point the argument that Israel is not an apartheid state, which is still sort of like, I mean it's gaining more traction, is gaining more traction in Israel for that matter. But every time they do this, it becomes more and more clear. There is a single state sort of that exists right now and it just so happens that it has second, third, fourth class citizens depending on which, how they're situated in Palestinian areas.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah, I mean the three step process or the three options that you're describing actually dates back to a 2017 proposal that Smoturch put forth called the Decisive Plan. And the idea was like it's time to take decisive action in the west bank to establish sovereignty. And yeah, the three choices that Palestinians would be left with after having all these new facts on the ground was number one, yeah, they could accept their role basically as like colonial subjects more or less and you know, like devote themselves to the state of Israel, pledge allegiance, number two, actually generously, Israel would pay them to leave, to go somewhere else. And they really emphasize this to make the point that like they're, you know, benevolent, they're not just going to kick them out, they're going to pay them to go move somewhere else. And option three is they fight death. And I think that, you know, like a lot of people ask like when is it going to happen, you know, when is, when is this civil war going to or when is the war going to break out in the west bank or when are they going to ethnically cleanse it? And I think that the point that that sort of misses is that, I mean it's really just it's happening, it's happening in real time. And I think Smochoric is very aware of the fact that everybody's looking at Gaza now, everybody's looking at Iran. And yes, we hear these sort of one off stories of these settler attacks or, you know, you hear about the siege on the refugee camps in the west bank, but the sort of bigger picture that they have completely undermined the legal structure that separates the west bank from Israel while like ramping up the violence and essentially getting rid of any enforcement against violent Israelis in the West Bank. They have effectively annexed it. I mean, it is Israeli territory now. And the Palestinians there, the lucky ones, so to speak, are living as subjects.

[Sam Seder]

What did he call it, the decisive what?

[Jasper Nathaniel]

The decisive plan.

[Sam Seder]

And that's a fascinating way to get around having to say, like final, the final solution.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

Jasper Nathaniel, we will put a link to this piece in the Baffler and also a link to your Substack newsletter, which I can't encourage people to sign up for more. That's at infinitejazz.substack.com thanks so much for your time today.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Okay, thanks a lot, Sam and Emma, Take care.

[Sam Seder]

All right, folks, we're going to take a quick break and in a moment, we'll be back with Brad Lander. He is the New York City comptroller and candidate for New York City mayor in the upcoming primary and also, I guess facing charges for attempting to request a warrant from ICE agents in New York City yesterday. We'll be right back after this.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Sam.

[Sam Seder]

Foreign we are back. Sam Cedar, Emma Vigeland on the Majority report. Joining us now, comptroller of New York City and mayoral candidate Brad Lander. And Brad, before the the, the break, I had said that you were facing charges because of what took place yesterday. Just explain to us what the status is. I think a lot of people have seen certainly on this program we played it the footage of ICE agents essentially wrestling you and grabbing you behind destroying your suit coat buttons and whatnot. But what exactly is the situation in terms of charges right now?

[Unknown]

No charges have been brought against me and I'm told that the case is under review and we'll have to see what happens. You know, but the individual that I was walking out with, Edgardo, he, we presume is in ICE detention. He has no lawyer. You know, he theoretically has 30 days to appeal the decision, but he doesn't know how to do that or have any lawyer or means to do it. So I'm going to be just fine. I'm a lot more worried.

[Sam Seder]

I just want to. Yeah, just want to start with what were you doing there? And I know this is not the first time you've been doing this, but what were you doing? You working with an organization? Just walk us through what the situation was.

[Unknown]

I was serving as what's called a friend of the court through an organization called Immigration arc. That's a coalition that has attorneys and others and then asks volunteers to come observe immigration court proceedings. Things changed about three weeks ago when DHS started doing this, what they call dismissing cases, which sounds good, but it is not good. It actually strips people of their status and makes them subject to expedited removal. That's what happened to that Bronx high school student, Dylan Contreras. And once it started happening, Immigration ARC encouraged more people to come sit in the courtroom, bear witness, and if people have that happen to them, escort them out of the building. So I've done it now three times, three weeks ago, two weeks ago and yesterday, five of the seven times I've done it, I'm happy to say I was able to escort the individual or the family. Yesterday I escorted a family of four, Latino family with a four year old and a five year old, afraid they were going to get, you know, grabbed and able to escort them out of the building. And, you know, that that's what I wanted to happen every single time with Edgardo as well.

[Sam Seder]

Just to reiterate this, this change in policy, because there you have an immigrant who is trying to apply for citizenship or I should say legal status in this country there, in fact, during this process, they are, there's no better way to describe them as being legal.

[Unknown]

I mean, they are doing everything right. These are people who crossed at the border and then immediately presented themselves to border patrol, were given a case number, were given a date to appear in court, mostly have filed asylum applications and showed up at their hearing with the expectation that they'd have a chance to get on a path to get their case heard. Do they have credible fear of repression if they return to their country? Yes. I mean, these are people who are following the legal process that is laid out under international and U.S. law. And instead of us following that process, what the Department of Homeland Security is doing is stripping away their status and deporting them without ever giving them a credible fear hearing, giving them a lawyer or providing them just any of the basics of due process. So like when we say democracy is being ripped away, the rule of law is being eroded, that's what's happening in our immigration courts. Right now, and that's why immigration ARC asks people to be there.

[Emma Vigeland]

But so they dismiss the case. Right. Just to give people a sense, they dismiss the case and then why you're there and other people who are trying to help their neighbors is because they need an escort. Because ICE agents are waiting in many instances outside of the courtroom and taking them away.

[Unknown]

Yeah. In the elevator lobby. So, yes, you know, it's just. Imagine there's an elevator lobby and then there's a hallway and the hallway has courtrooms off it. And you don't know the judge says, okay, your case is dismissed next. And then that person walks out of the courtroom into the hallway, and then when they turn the corner into the elevator lobby, there's a gaggle of masked, non uniformed, non identifying ICE and federal agents who grab them. And so the idea of an escort is to give them a little information about what has just happened in court and what is likely to happen and to try to provide an escort who hopefully will be able to just walk with them, you know, through to the elevator and downstairs. And five of the seven times I've done it, that did happen, which was.

[Sam Seder]

Great, but two times and just I just woke. So people understand when it's dismissed is what would have happened five weeks ago would have been that they appeal this or that or five weeks ago they.

[Unknown]

Would not have dismissed. This is new, that they are dismissing people's cases. Previously you would be going along the path of an asylum application. They would say, okay, we're, you know, in another case last week I was with, I was sitting in the courtroom where a couple and they severed the cases. Even though they came together and they removed him. Well, they didn't, you know, they, they dismissed his case. She got a court date a year and a half from now. So her case was not dismissed. That's what normally would have happened is come back in 18 months, bring a lawyer, and we'll start the process essentially of considering your asylum application. And that's what was happening for people. And now what they've started doing by dismissing the cases is never give you that chance and just move to expedited removal. Expedited removal, as I understand it, was something that previously had only happened at the border, that they would do it at the border, but that if you got a court date and moved into the U.S. you and filed your asylum application, you would then have a credible fear hearing and get due process going. Changing that, doing the dismissal and moving immediately to expedited removal. As I understand it, you know, five weeks ago, was not a standard or significant process and has now become.

[Sam Seder]

I want to.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. Can I just really quickly ask you, Brad, just like, why. Why the judges are going along with this? If you. If. I mean, if the. If the government is asking this, shouldn't the judge be having an even hand here?

[Unknown]

Some judges do. I will say I have been in courtrooms. I was in one courtroom last week with a guy named Abu Bakr from Algeria, and the judge refused to dismiss the case. The judge gave Abu Bakr a little chance to explain why he's afraid of being deported back to Algeria. He explained why. The judge said, it sounds like you should have a real, credible fear hearing and your asylum case should be heard. He refused to dismiss the case.

[Emma Vigeland]

Case.

[Unknown]

And then he said to Abu Bakr, I am denying the government's motion, but I can't promise that they won't arrest you when you walk out of the building. So, yes, now other judges are not doing anything like that. The judge yesterday whose courtroom I was in was extremely rude to me, was extremely rude to reporters, yelled at us for just trying to come into the courtroom totally silently and listen and observe. And in one case yesterday did such a poor job of explaining to the individual what his rights were that the government lawyer spoke up and said, you, Honor, I don't think you said, you have the opportunity to appeal the case. Like, that's how bad this is. Like the government lawyer, the DHS lawyer, was correcting the judge in order to preserve, you know, the legal integrity of the hearing. It felt like a kangaroo court. And some judges are objecting. I had a different judge who kind of quietly directed me to another courtroom, And I don't know enough about, you know, which immigration judges are which and why. Some care about the rule of law, and some seem to be going along with increasingly Gestapo tactics. But. But it looks to me like that.

[Sam Seder]

And these are administrative judges, not, you know, Article 3 judges here. And we should say that if there was a process where someone could have theoretically filed their appeal before they get out into that hallway, they would be protected theoretically from these ICE agents.

[Unknown]

I mean, this is one of the things when you just think about the Orwellian stuff that's going on here, like the fact that the judge tells you you have 30 days to appeal, but knows you don't have a lawyer you have, doesn't tell you where or how to appeal, and knows you're about to be picked up by an ICE agent who's going to put you in detention with no way of getting connected to Anyone who could help you exert that. Right. Like, it really makes you want to throw up.

[Sam Seder]

Let's look at this footage, because then the other question is, is, like, what authority did these guys? And frankly, whoever these guys are, they're just, as far as I can tell, they're dressed like they're, you know, providing service at a Banana Republic clothing store.

[Emma Vigeland]

Except they're masks, so you can't see who they even are.

[Sam Seder]

Let's take it a little bit further in here. And. Yeah, okay, so people watch. And. And then I want to ask you about, like, you know, what authority do they have to detain you in this instance, and what the requirements are for them to present in terms of an authority both to detain you and to detain the Edgardo who you were working with. This is not legal to take. Judicial warrant.

[Emma Vigeland]

Please don't put him in the elevator and then claim you have the warrant for him.

[Sam Seder]

I will let go when you show.

[Unknown]

Me the judicial warrant.

[Sam Seder]

Where is it? Back. Step back. Step back, please. Step back. Step back, guys. Step back. Step back. You don't have the authority to arrest US Citizens.

[Unknown]

I'm standing right here in the hallway. I have to see the judicial warrant.

[Sam Seder]

Okay. And so you're. You're getting cuffed by some T shirted guys. They're big, they're strong. I can understand how that. How that happens. What? Like when you went with them in the elevator and then to whatever, you know, room they kept you in for a couple of hours, is my understanding. I mean, and they clearly knew who you were. I think it's been reported that they said, should we take the comptroller? Comptroller. So they clearly knew who you were. They didn't need to put you in cuffs at that point because we can see that they've been able to take this person away. Like, what. Tell us what happened after that and who they were. What authority?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I didn't get a lot of information. I mean, they. After that, they took me to first one floor and then a second, and I just sat in a room basically for four hours. And I, you know, I did not get interviewed or get much information, so. And, you know, you heard the questions I was asking. First I was asking to see the judicial warrant by which they were removing Edgardo, and then I was challenging their authority to arrest me, but I did not get a lot of information. You know, mostly I just sat in a room with a nice police officer.

[Sam Seder]

Minding me for four hours, and they're still sort of like, Contemplating whether they're going to. And we should say my understanding after talking to some immigration people is that a judicial warrant is only necessary if they're going into someone's home or car. In this instance, they don't need that warrant because the immigration, or I should say the ICE lawyer is in the other room, knows what their status is and they can, they can do this expedited removal. Give me what is your perspective?

[Unknown]

Let's actually spend a minute on this. This is someone who we did let in, you know, who we did give a court date to, who we allowed to file an asylum applic. So how it can be true that they can then, even though that person might have spent a year or 18 months here and was on path in a legal system to having their credible fear hearing, can all of a sudden become a non person such that no judicial warrant is needed and it's only ISIS word that removes him and well, no one will ever see him again. It may be that that's what is allowed in some way, but, but that's what we're talking about when we talk about like the rule of law being undermined.

[Sam Seder]

What is the mechanism to challenge this? Like, I mean, do we even have. We have. It doesn't. It feels like this is such a, we're in such a gray area that we don't even know how we would go about challenging this.

[Unknown]

This is why I was there, you know, like this is like you try to show up at the places where you think things are happening that need to be called out. And yes, I don't know, he theoretically has a 30 day appeal process according to the judge, but no one has any idea what it is and he doesn't have any ability to exercise it. And that is what I was trying to do was just insist that he deserves some due process that he is being denied and it's happening to thousands of people. Which is why I'm glad that Congress members Jerry Nadler and Dan Goldman went down there today. I hope other elected officials will show up and do this. I encourage other New Yorkers to volunteer. With immigration ARC and people all around the country. I was glad to be out in the streets for the no Kings March, you know, this weekend with 100,000 New Yorkers and millions of people around the country. If you want to do more, here's something else you can do.

[Sam Seder]

Well, you mentioned that two congressmen come down to the federal building, check this out. Where, where is, where is our senators on this? Have you heard from Chuck Schumer on this at all.

[Unknown]

I mean, you know, I was without my phone for four hours, and I'll be honest, I have not caught up fully on my texts. And, you know, a lot of elected officials have reached out to me, and, look, the governor came down there and helped me get released and said she's designating $50 million more so that immigrants facing deportation proceedings in New York will have lawyers, which is great, because, you know, it would have been way better for Edgardo than me would have been a lawyer. So I'm glad that the state's going to provide more funding. I want the city. I've been pushing for the City Council in its negotiations with the mayor, as they conclude the budget negotiations over the next 10 days to put up at least another hundred million dollars so that, you know, folks will have attorneys when they're in court. Five of the other mayoral candidates in my race showed up yesterday, and I think that is great. Andrew Cuomo did not show up, but he did at least, I guess, put a statement out. I mean, bonkers, like, corrupt, compromised. Eric Adams showed one more time that he's on the side of Donald Trump and not New Yorkers.

[Sam Seder]

Eric Adams, basically, as far as I know. I think the tweet or the statement was something to the effect of, like, you know, don't mess with, you know, federal police, I guess.

[Unknown]

Eric Adams made very clear. He is on the side of the officers who arrested me and the officers who are officers who detained and are deporting Edgardo and ICE and Donald Trump and how New York got. So, you know what? He is bringing shame upon himself and upon our city. Luckily, we get to get rid of him. Him as mayor. Barry.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, and I don't. I don't want to, you know, like, the. In terms of Cuomo, I don't want to give him too much credit, but we do know that in 2018, many of his donors and, you know, we haven't seen the breakdowns, but many of his donors benefit and profit off of ice's work in this way because they. They are private detention. They. They have detention facilities. So. So this guy is wrapped up in that.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, and this was so clear on the debate stage last week. You know, I made a lot of criticisms of him about the sexual harassment, which he has clearly done and never taken accountability for, about sending people to their deaths in nursing homes and lying about it. And I had invited one of those families there. The thing that caught him most off guard was when I raised this issue about these immigrant subway cleaners. That he had forced the MTA to hire during the pandemic, to do deep cleaning of the subway cars, but then cheated out of their wages and healthcare. And my office is pursuing the prevailing wage claim because that's what we do in the controller's office, and we're gonna win a couple million dollars for a few hundred subway cleaners. But what was fascinating was what he said on the stage was, if they are illegal immigrants, those are the words he used to basically, it's somebody else's fault. But, like, that's what's in his head is, you know, I'm nervous that it's gonna be discovered that I took advantage of what he thinks of in his head as illegal immigrants for his own hygiene theater. Like, that's who he is. And yes, I mean, his super PAC's got a million dollars from DoorDash because DoorDash wants to buy the mayoralty so that they can rip rights away from immigrant delivery workers who, thanks to a law I passed, have get a living wage in New York City. So, yes, he, you know, yesterday got it right to say my arrest was wrong, but he will not defend immigrant New Yorkers. He's got a track record of abusing them.

[Emma Vigeland]

And DoorDash also was found by Letitia James, the state New York State Attorney General, to have stolen tips that New Yorkers thought they were providing to DoorDash workers. But I am the statement. Cuomo didn't come down there, but he put out some statement about ICE abuse. And it occurs to me that it sounds like it would be more likely that that statement. He would have sounded more like Eric Adams if he were in office. Right. There's this sense that I think the solidarity with you and Zoran Mamdani and other the cross endorsing to say don't rank Cuomo, it's pushed him a little bit to take some positions that I don't think are actually sincere. But it's interesting to see this divide. I want to return to this a little. Our top ranked Democrat in the House is from New York State. Our top ranked Democrat in the Senate is from New York State. And as of recording this, neither of them seem to have come to your defense. And Kathy Hochul, she came down there. Good for her. But there seems to be really this divide between people that want to fight Donald Trump and who are aggressive about it and people that want to cower away from it. And in a primary right now, we know that the former is what the New Yorkers and what Democrats broadly around the country want Right now, can you just speak about that dynamic emerging state? Yeah.

[Unknown]

Greg Cassar, who's the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and a Congress member from Texas, is a good friend of mine from some work we did together when we were both City Council members. And he says, you know, the line right now is not between progressives and moderates. It's between fighters and fakers. And, yes, you can see that right now, you've got folks like me and Assemblymember Mamdani and others who are out there fighting for the rights of all New Yorkers. And you have fakers like Andrew Cuomo, who wants to say on stage, I'll poke my finger into Donald Trump's chest, but you could tell he's faking. He's never risked anything for someone other than himself in his whole life. So it's straightforward that he wants to, like, be redeemed for his sins, but he's not gonna stand up and fight for immigrant New Yorkers or anyone other than his donors and himself. And, yes, I think this is an important time for Democrats to show which side of that line they're on. Will you stand up and fight for the rule of law? Fight for due process? Fight for the 40% of New Yorkers who are. Who are immigrants? Now, look, I did have this conversation with the governor as I was going out, because we have to find a way to fight, and we don't want to give Donald Trump an excuse to say, now we're sending in the National Guard. He wants to strike fear into immigrant families. He wants to try to undermine Democratic leaders, and he wants to stoke conflict and then have an excuse to send in, like, ratchet it up.

[Sam Seder]

So.

[Unknown]

But this is where nonviolent tactics are the perfect ones to use. Like, we insist on the rule of law. We show up and bear witness. We put our bodies on the line, but we do it in that tradition of nonviolence, of witness. And it's unfortunate to live at a time where that is what is necessary. But that is what I was proud to do yesterday. It's how I would govern as mayor, and it's what I hope more people will do.

[Sam Seder]

One final question. I've had this question literally for decades. Comptroller. Why comptroller? Why not controller?

[Unknown]

So I believe it is appropriately pronounced controller, and that it is a weird French misspelling of an English word. But, yes, some people propose to change it to just Chief Financial Officer. But, you know, I'm lucky to have the job of trying to protect the retirement security of teachers and municipal Workers.

[Sam Seder]

I like controller I just didn't never knew that about the dad.

[Unknown]

You've already way too controlling so don't go with that.

[Emma Vigeland]

There you go.

[Sam Seder]

Well controller of New York City mayoral candidate Brad Lander. Thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. And we will put a link also to immigrant arc. Sounds like a great organization and I would imagine needs a lot of volunteers increasingly. Thanks so much for your time today.

[Unknown]

Great thank you.

[Emma Vigeland]

Thank you so much.

[Sam Seder]

All right folks, that is I am blown away by the comptroller controller thing.

[Emma Vigeland]

I had no idea I'm going to use comptroller. I just like it. I like it a little added flair. I just on the heels of this I early voted yesterday. I'm going to be away on election day and I ranked Brad Lander number two feel very very good about that. I think people if you're in New York you have to rank all five slots. You have to rank five and you've got to make sure that none of them are Andrew Cuomo and ranked Zoron. I'm sorry Brad. He's phenomenal. That's why I ranked him number two. But we have to rank Zoron number one Right now there's two people who have the opportunity to win this race and Brad Lander has been a great good soldier standing behind Zo wrong with that understandings and you know I mean.

[Unknown]

I think he's the clear number two clear anybody else even comes close. The rest of the three are just sort of who can I get on that? That's not Cuomo.

[Emma Vigeland]

I think we were a little critical of some of his like house his rent freeze half stepping for a little while but like over but that's that's long gone at this point given how Adrian Adams has cozied up to doordash and to like you know not criticized ice race. There's clearly in my view a number two in this race 100% but I'm.

[Sam Seder]

Still just can't get over this. I've been saying controller for decades.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's actually pronounced Lynn Cheney.

[Sam Seder]

There you go. Exactly deep cut.

[Unknown]

It's not that deep cut. We make them.

[Sam Seder]

It's not really a deep cut but I'm saying if it was clipped if people just go watch watch the clip of the the interview and then all of a sudden Lynn Cheney comes up after comptroller. But yes that's what makes me so sophisticated. Charlie jerk says reminder to everyone no matter where you live, please phone bank for Zoran this week latest poll has him down by 10, I think it is in the final ballot. I want to just, I, well, I want to just be consistent with what I've been saying since the beginning. You have good polars who come out with good polls. But the, at the end of the day, the difficult thing in this environment and in this dynamic, I would imagine it's very hard to assess who's going to come out for this election. Like creating the likely voter model in this environment. I mean it's gotten even more complicated now with the, with the Lander stuff. I mean in terms of like is going to be difficult. So I would not get discouraged whatsoever. And really, at the end of the day, what difference does it make what the poll says at this point? Go and, and get your neighbors to vote, get your friends to vote. Do not rank Andrew Cuomo. That's number one. But fill out all five of the lines there because that will help essentially keep Cuomo out of office.

[Emma Vigeland]

If people are curious. I posted this yesterday, but this was my ranking. Zoran Mamdani 1. Brad Lander 2. Michael Blake 3. Adrian Adams 4. Zellner Myre 5. I put Blake at 3 because he cross endorsed with Zoron and Adams's kind of pivot to criticizing him recently and also taking some shady super PAC money. Wasn't thrilled with that so I put her at four. And then also I think Jumani Williams for public advocate is a great choice still. And Justin Brannon for comptrollers since Bradlander is running for mayor controller.

[Sam Seder]

Folks, it's your support that makes this show possible. You can become a member @join the MajorityReport.com when you do, you not only get the free show free of commercials, you also get the fun half. Why wouldn't you do this? Where are you getting. What? Like what? Where are you getting a three hour daily show like this? Good luck then.

[Unknown]

Rogan.

[Sam Seder]

Well, Rogan, I guess. Rogan. It's our.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's us or Rogan.

[Sam Seder]

Rogan's not daily, is he? He's a few days a week.

[Unknown]

Yeah, seriously, not daily, but three.

[Sam Seder]

But I mean not of three hours with Douglas Murray.

[Unknown]

Not quite the fun half.

[Sam Seder]

Exactly. He doesn't do politics every day. Right. He mixes it in with Bono and.

[Unknown]

The some, you know, supporter of racist.

[Sam Seder]

You know, like race science. And then, you know, a musician or billionaire. Yeah, a billionaire or an athlete.

[Unknown]

Venture capitalist.

[Sam Seder]

We should mix it up. Just coffee, co op, fair trade coffee, hot chocolate. Use the coupon code. Majority get 10% off. Left reckoning.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I left reckoning last night. Had Two great interviews. One with Adam Gaffney about the costs of the big, beautiful billionaire, bailouts, Medicaid cuts, and also Hannah Hab. 2 on Tigray and Ethiopia and Eritrean politics. So check that out.

[Sam Seder]

Patreon.com Hassan's on for 14 hours a day. But let me. Give me a break. We'll see where he is in 25 years. See if we could even get up in the morning, for that matter. All right, see you in the fun half. Three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months from now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're going to look back and go like, wow. But what is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second. Hold on. Hold on for a second. Emma, welcome to the program. Hey, Matt. Boo. Fun. What is up, everyone? Fun path.

[Emma Vigeland]

No.

[Sam Seder]

Me. Keen.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

You did it.

[Sam Seder]

Fun path.

[Emma Vigeland]

Let's go, Brandon.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Let's go, Brandon.

[Sam Seder]

Bradley, you want to say hello?

[Unknown]

Sorry to disappoint everyone.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

I'm just a random guy.

[Sam Seder]

It's all the boys today.

[Unknown]

Fundamentally false.

[Emma Vigeland]

No. I'm sorry. Women.

[Sam Seder]

Stop talking for a second and let me finish.

[Emma Vigeland]

Where is this coming from? Dude?

[Sam Seder]

But. Dude, you want to smoke this? 7A. Yes. Hi. Me. You sink. Yes. Is this me? Is it me? It is you. If it's me.

[Brad Lander]

Oh, it's me.

[Sam Seder]

I think it is you. Who is you. No sound. Every single freaking day. What's on your mind?

[Jasper Nathaniel]

We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'm gonna guess my life.

[Sam Seder]

Libertarian. They're so stupid. Though. Common sense says of course.

[Emma Vigeland]

Gobbledygook.

[Sam Seder]

We nailed him.

[Emma Vigeland]

So what's 79? 21 challenge.

[Sam Seder]

Man. I'm positively quivering.

[Unknown]

I believe 96. I want to say.

[Sam Seder]

8572-1035-5011-0389-11. For instance.

[Emma Vigeland]

$3,400. $1,900. 54.

[Sam Seder]

$3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game. Actually.

[Emma Vigeland]

You're making think less.

[Unknown]

But.

[Sam Seder]

But let me say this.

[Unknown]

You call satire.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sam goes satire on top of it all.

[Sam Seder]

My favorite part about you is just like every day, all day, like everything you do. Without a doubt. Hey, buddy. We see you. All right, folks, folks, folks.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's just the week being weeded out. Obviously.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah. Sun's out, guns out. I, I, I don't know.

[Emma Vigeland]

But you should know.

[Sam Seder]

People just don't.

[Unknown]

Like to entertain ideas anymore.

[Sam Seder]

I have a question. Who cares?

[Unknown]

Our chat is enabled, folks.

[Sam Seder]

I love it.

[Emma Vigeland]

I do love that.

[Sam Seder]

Got to jump. Got to be quick. I got to jump. I'm losing it, bro. Two o' clock. We're already late and the guy's being a dick. So screw him. Sent to a gulag.

[Emma Vigeland]

Outrageous.

[Sam Seder]

Like, what is wrong with you?

[Brad Lander]

Love you.

[Ted Cruz]

Bye.

[Sam Seder]

Love you.

[Jasper Nathaniel]

Bye.

[Sam Seder]

Bye.