The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3540 – "The Trillion Dollar War Machine" w/ Benjamin Freeman
Date: December 8, 2025
Guest: Ben Freeman (Quincy Institute, co-author of The Trillion Dollar War Machine)

Overview

In this episode, Sam Seder interviews Ben Freeman, the Director of the Democratizing Foreign Policy Program at the Quincy Institute and co-author of The Trillion Dollar War Machine: How Runaway Military Spending Drives America into Foreign Wars and Bankrupts Us at Home. The conversation explores the ongoing growth and pervasive influence of the U.S. military-industrial complex—from economic incentives and political entrenchment to media complicity and emergent tech-sector influence. They also examine prospects for reform, generational attitudes, and possibilities for change.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Origins and Evolution of the Military-Industrial Complex

[26:06 – 29:33]

• Seder begins with Eisenhower’s 1961 warning about the “military-industrial complex,” initially the “military-congressional-industrial complex.”
• Freeman explains Eisenhower envisioned an “iron triangle”—a mutually reinforcing relationship between Congress, the Pentagon, and defense corporations.
  • “In those over 60 years since, we've seen that system expand well beyond those few players and really encompass everything you can possibly think of from sporting events to Hollywood, the gaming industry, the tech sector, you name it.” – Ben Freeman [27:23]

World War II’s Legacy: From Necessary Arms to Perpetual Machine

[28:00 – 29:33]

• The U.S. transformed civilian industry to produce war materials during WWII; after the war, the defense apparatus didn’t shrink.
• “You couldn't just flip a switch and turn this gigantic war machine off... when you have all that infrastructure in place, you need wars to justify it.” – Ben Freeman [28:08]
• The system self-perpetuates, generating new “monsters” or threats to continue justifying its budget.

Incentive Structures: Congressional Districts and Local Economies

[29:37 – 32:49]

• Freeman details how defense contractors strategically distribute production and jobs, ensuring every congressional district benefits.
  • Example: The F-35 program claims jobs in 48 states and almost every congressional district. Freeman calls this the “self-licking ice cream cone” dynamic.
  • “You vote against this program, you're voting against jobs at home.” – Ben Freeman [31:16]
• This widespread economic entanglement makes it politically risky for any legislator to oppose Pentagon spending—even critics of militarism like Bernie Sanders.

Defense Industry Consolidation in the 1990s

[32:49 – 35:12]

• The Clinton-era "peace dividend" period led to mergers, consolidating power among a few “prime” contractors: Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon, and General Dynamics.
• The post-Cold War era saw the privatization of military operations, exemplified by enormous wartime contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
  • “Now 54% of the military’s budget goes not to the troops, it goes to contractors.” – Ben Freeman [35:12]

Lethal Lobbying and Political Influence

[35:39 – 38:17]

• Massive industry spending on lobbying—over $100 million/year—and think-tank funding crowds out reform voices.
  • “They have nearly two lobbyists for every member of Congress... they're spending tens of millions a year on think tanks.” – Ben Freeman [36:30]
• Media, entertainment, and even sports are co-opted. Example: Defense industry ads in the Super Bowl, military cooperation with blockbuster films like Top Gun 2.

Media Complicity and “Selling the War Machine”

[38:29 – 41:41]

• The mainstream media rarely scrutinizes or questions defense contractors due to lucrative advertising revenue.
• Retired military talking-heads and think-tank staff, often funded by defense contractors, further reinforce the pro-war narrative.
  • “At the end of the day, these are war profiteers... but the reason they're nice is because very often they're making multimillion dollar ad buys for these networks.” – Ben Freeman [40:35]

The Silicon Valley Shift: Tech Enters the War Machine

[41:41 – 46:46]

• Historical Pentagon seed money helped build Silicon Valley, but until recently, tech companies were wary of defense contracts.
• The Trump era and beyond: New “defense tech" entrepreneurs (Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Palmer Luckey) challenge the old primes with unmanned systems, AI, and surveillance platforms.
  • "A rising Pentagon budget is lifting all boats. The old guard primes... and the new defense tech startups... are getting more and more money too. But I don't think that can go on forever." – Ben Freeman [45:10]

Soaring Budgets and Political Inertia

[46:46 – 48:02]

• The Pentagon’s annual budget first surpassed $1 trillion in 2025.
  • “Our book went from being prophecy to just being descriptive about the world we live in now.” – Ben Freeman [47:02]
• Entwined interests mean unchecked growth is likely to persist.

Reform—Where to Start?

[48:02 – 54:23]

• Seder presses Freeman for the "weak points" in the sprawling war machine: Overseas U.S. military bases, especially in non-voting territories, are the easiest targets for cuts.
  • “You try to cut a base in [the U.S.]...they’re going to raise hell. You can't make the same argument for an overseas military base.” – Ben Freeman [49:00]
• Expensive, outdated systems like the F-35 and aircraft carriers are also ripe for reduction.

Foreign Lobbying and Geopolitical Pushback

[51:13 – 52:11]

• When U.S. bases abroad are targeted for closure, host governments hire U.S. lobbyists (including ex-members of Congress) to keep the money flowing.

Inefficiency, Oversight Failures, and Boogeymen

[53:14 – 54:23]

• The Pentagon has never passed an audit; billions are spent on contractor stock buybacks rather than defense.
• The justification for the vast budget depends on constantly manufactured “existential threats.”
  • “You can't justify a trillion dollar military budget without having monsters in the world, whether they’re real or imaginary.” – Ben Freeman [54:36]

Generational Change, U.S-Israel Policy, and Public Sentiment

[55:56 – 58:31]

• Israel is the top recipient of U.S. military aid, and Gaza has served as a testing ground for U.S. weapons.
• A generational shift: Younger Americans are more skeptical of militarism, distrusting the system and favoring reinvestment in domestic needs.

Antiwar Alliances Across Political Lines

[58:31 – 61:39]

• Though there are some anti-interventionist Republicans, the alliance is inconsistent; votes matter most, not rhetoric.
  • “If you look at the votes...are they still supporting this system or not?” – Ben Freeman [60:05]
• A few standouts, like Thomas Massie, have cooperated on specific reforms, but overall, antiwar sentiment on the right remains limited.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On self-perpetuating defense spending:
  “When you look at the build up to World War II... what we didn’t realize is that when the war ended, the industry wasn’t going to turn away. You couldn’t just flip a switch and turn this gigantic war machine off.” – Ben Freeman [28:08]

• On congressional pressure:
  “You’re not going to bite the hand that feeds you... you’re not going to go after those jobs in your own district.” – Ben Freeman [31:20]

• On lobbying power:
  “They have nearly two lobbyists for every member of Congress.” – Ben Freeman [36:30]

• On media capture:
  “These are war profiteers. But the reason they’re nice is because very often they’re making multimillion dollar ad buys for these networks." – Ben Freeman [40:35]

• On Pentagon tech and the rise of Silicon Valley:
  “If you think about [the F-35 program’s timeline] in the tech space, we didn't have iPhones when the F-35 first started… for the longest time, the tech sector said, ‘We're not going to work with you, DoD.’ But that's all changing with this administration.” – Ben Freeman [43:20]

• On potential for reform:
  “I love the overseas bases as a good first place to start because... you can’t make the same argument for an overseas military base.” – Ben Freeman [49:00]

• On manufactured threats:
  “You can't justify a trillion dollar military budget without having monsters in the world, whether they're real or imaginary.” – Ben Freeman [54:36]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction and opening news items: [02:14–16:12]
• Freeman interview begins: [25:31]
• Eisenhower and origins of military-industrial complex: [26:06]
• World War II legacy and perpetual war economy: [28:00]
• Congressional incentives and F-35 example: [29:37]
• Industry consolidation and privatization (1990s onward): [32:49]
• Lobbying, think tanks, and media influence: [35:39]
• Hollywood and media capture: [38:29]
• Tech sector’s entry into defense contracting: [41:41]
• Budget growth and current inertia: [46:46]
• Where and how to cut the war machine: [48:02]
• Foreign lobbying and pushback: [51:13]
• Efficiency, audits, and waste: [53:14]
• Creating threats to justify budgets: [54:23]
• Shifts in public opinion and Israel’s role: [55:56]
• Transpartisan alliances and viability: [58:31]
• Wrap-up and closing thoughts: [61:41]

Final Thoughts

Ben Freeman’s book and this interview argue the military-industrial complex is not just a bloated bureaucracy, but an entrenched economic engine, political juggernaut, and cultural force. It requires continual "monsters" to sustain itself and invests heavily in shaping every institution that might challenge its narrative. While the system seems almost impervious to change, Freeman suggests cuts abroad, shifts in generational attitudes, and targeted legislative cooperation could eventually chip away at this trillion-dollar machine.

Book plug:
"The Trillion Dollar War Machine: How Runaway Military Spending Drives America into Foreign Wars and Bankrupts Us at Home" by William Hartung and Ben Freeman [61:41]

Listen to the full interview for more details and context.