3544 -Candace Owens, Tim Pool, Charlie Kirk; The Right-Wing Conspiracy Snake Eats its Tail w/ Will Sommer

Summary

---

The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3544 – Candace Owens, Tim Pool, Charlie Kirk: The Right-Wing Conspiracy Snake Eats Its Tail

Date: December 12, 2025
Guest: Will Sommer (Senior reporter at the Bulwark; Author, False Flag newsletter)
Hosts: Sam Seder, Emma Vigeland

Episode Overview

This episode explores deep turmoil and infighting within the contemporary right-wing media and political sphere. Hosts Sam Seder and Emma Vigeland are joined by journalist Will Sommer to analyze the ongoing "civil war" on the right, centered around conspiracy theories, social media infighting, and dramatic shifts in conservative media power dynamics—particularly in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death and subsequent conspiracy theories promoted by Candace Owens. The conversation also covers the weakening grip of Donald Trump on the Republican establishment, the collapse of consensus on right-wing messaging, and the gender dynamics fueling certain parts of this turmoil.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Right-Wing Civil War: The Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk Nexus

• The right-wing is experiencing a chaotic civil war, especially intensified by the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
• Candace Owens is at the center, pushing dramatic conspiracy theories surrounding Kirk's killing, creating new rifts.
• Other right-wing figures (Tim Pool, Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk’s widow Erica Kirk) are attempting to counter Owens, but with little effect.

“Right now there is kind of this massive right-wing civil war...the hottest part at the moment is the fight over Candace Owens.” — Will Sommer [28:39]

---

2. Infighting and the Conspiratorial Spiral

• Right media personalities are turning on each other and imitating the conspiracy-mongering tactics they've used against the left, now targeting one another.
• Tim Pool, for instance, mirrored Candace Owens's paranoia after an (alleged) attack at his compound, accusing Owens of working for unnamed interests.

“Who's she working for? Who is Candace Owens working for? Don't you think it's a little weird?” — Tim Pool (clip discussed by hosts) [31:19]

• Owens and others continue exploiting the lack of official information on Kirk’s death to spin elaborate theories, much like QAnon previously did.

“She just sort of weaves this web that I think a lot of people are buying into, even though it doesn’t really make a lot of sense.” — Will Sommer [40:26]

---

3. The Power Vacuum, Money, and Motivation

• The vacuum left by Kirk’s assassination and Trump’s declining power is driving infighting; media figures are vying for influence, notoriety, and lucrative audience segments.
• Owens’ financial independence from traditional GOP donor channels especially irks peers whose funding is at greater risk.

“Trump is on his way out...so you have to then start positioning yourself to 2028. As a result, people are kind of picking out their positions and fighting over that.” — Will Sommer [38:10]

---

4. Turning Point USA Crisis and the Fracturing Base

• With Kirk gone, Turning Point USA struggles to maintain its grip—messages from conservative grassroots show rising distrust, fueled by Owens’s theories.
• The organization's initial bread-and-butter—persecuting “leftist” professors and campus liberals—has faded into paranoia and accusations among insiders.

“Now that he’s gone…and you’ve got those … that’s doing a show, one of whom is Blake Neff…every tweet… is just all these people saying, you know, when will you reveal, you know, why Charlie was murdered for turning on Israel?” — Will Sommer [43:17]

---

5. Conspiracy Culture Consumes Itself

• The hosts note the irony: right-wing commentators who built their followings on conspiracy theory are now trapped by the same dynamics, as their audience expects constant, escalating drama.
• Matt Walsh, Chris Rufo, and others express dismay at the “psychodrama,” but can't police the boundaries they helped erase.

“They want to be doing the conspiracy theories, but aimed at the left… now they’re mad that the tactics have been turned inward by Candace Owens.” — Will Sommer [60:40]

---

6. Gender Dynamics and Candace Owens’s Audience

• Candace Owens appeals largely to a female, nontraditional conservative demographic, drawing in viewers through “book club” formats and lifestyle/celebrity content, not just politics.
• Her narrative style, akin to “true crime” and daytime TV, allows her to build a powerful, independent brand—a rare feat among right-wing personalities.
• Candace positions herself (and is perceived) as a sort-of “female Alex Jones,” with a highly emotional, performance-driven delivery.

“I think her audience is probably majority women…there are only sort of a handful…who are really aimed at women, I guess Brett Cooper…” — Will Sommer [66:01]

---

7. Religion, Identity, and Right-Wing Media’s Shapeshifting

• The episode explores how personas like Charlie Kirk became more overtly religious—as a strategy to appeal to base voters and major conservative donors (especially after his death).
• The friction over identity (Jewish, evangelical, Catholic) within Turning Point USA has fueled further Discord.

“There’s all this weird stuff about, like, what was Charlie Kirk’s religion?... Candace Owens has claimed he was on the verge of converting to Catholicism.” — Will Sommer [49:17]

---

8. Unintended Consequences: QAnon and Conspiracy-Addicted Audiences

• The episode connects the Kirk/Owens drama to the broader right’s embrace of QAnon thinking: the “soldiers for God,” rescue fantasies, and endless amateur sleuthing online are addictive for audiences, and increasingly essential to right-wing influencers' success.
• Candace fills the “Q” role: interpreting clues, inviting user submissions, and stringing together elaborate plots.

“Now you have, in the place of Q, you have Candace Owens…” — Will Sommer [54:54]

---

9. The Nick Fuentes Factor and White Supremacist Undercurrents

• Nick Fuentes’s relationship to the broader infighting is explored—right-wing organizations are wary of antagonizing his base, and his presence looms large over the current fragmentation.
• Attempting to distance from Fuentes while not alienating his followers is a persistent dilemma for conservatives.

“I think people are kind of scared of the groypers…perhaps they see Candace Owens as a way they can assert some power and at least try to police the boundaries…” — Will Sommer [69:34]

---

10. Where Does the Right Go from Here?

• Owens has been challenged to a live “debate” at Turning Point USA, but it is unlikely she'll attend. Paranoia (including fears she’ll be “assassinated”) pervades her fanbase.
• The ongoing Kirk murder trial, Trump’s fading influence, and money flowing to new influencers suggest continued fragmentation and conflict for the right, with no clear path to resolution.

“As Trump wanes…the economic incentives are incredibly good for someone like Candace…more people are going to start splitting and making these sort of politically counterproductive conspiracy theories.” — Will Sommer [62:30]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

On Right-wing Paranoia Eating Its Own:

“It is fascinating—because it really feels like a snake eating its own tail at this point.”
— Sam Seder [29:18]

Tim Pool’s Paranoia Satirizing Candace Owens:

“Who's she working for? Who is Candace Owens working for?”
— Tim Pool (quoted by Sam Seder and Will Sommer) [31:19]

On Candace Owens’s Influence:

“She’s very much like a female Alex Jones. Her incentive structure is very different than the rest of these Republican influencers. And I think that’s part of why they’re so mad at her.”
— Emma Vigeland [39:09]

On Gender in the Audience:

“Candace returns a lot to saying, you know, I don't want my children to live in a world run by pedophiles. That's kind of a refrain…”
— Will Sommer [65:24]

On Conservative Media’s Conspiracy Addiction:

“The right-wing media apparatus is…currently getting consumed by conspiracy, psychodrama, and tabloid conflicts. If left unchecked, it’ll turn the audience into the equivalent of a third-world click farm.”
— Chris Rufo (post discussed at [59:17])

On QAnon’s Lasting Impact:

“There was this sense...the religious aspect of QAnon…you’re rescuing children for God...and all you have to do is go online and post and watch YouTube videos.”
— Will Sommer [54:54]

---

Important Timestamps

• 06:49 — Discussion of Trump’s collapsing approval numbers and GOP gerrymander pressures
• 10:40 — Recap of Indiana gerrymander defeat, threats by Trump Jr. and J.D. Vance
• 28:39 — Will Sommer introduction; overview of right-wing media civil war
• 34:01 — Background on Milo Yiannopoulos and his (mis)adventures
• 41:47 — Turning Point USA’s struggle with post-Kirk leadership and Candace’s attacks
• 54:54 — How QAnon culture is being replicated in the Kirk/Owens drama
• 60:40 — “Snake eats its tail” dynamic and Chris Rufo commentary
• 66:01 — Discussion of Candace Owens’ gender-skewed audience and its implications
• 69:34 — Nick Fuentes’s persistent complicating presence on the right

---

Conclusion

The “civil war” inside the right-wing sphere has reached new levels of public spectacle and dysfunction, fueled by conspiracy culture and collapsing political authority. Figures like Candace Owens, Tim Pool, and Nick Fuentes are remaking the rules, driven by a radicalized online audience and intense competition for influence and money. Will Sommer and the hosts agree: the fragmentation will likely accelerate, reshaping conservatism in ways that may have long-term consequences, with Trump’s irrelevance looming ever larger and the future of right-wing media up for grabs.

---

For more:
Follow Will Sommer’s "False Flag" newsletter.
Full episode available at Majority.FM

---

Transcript

[Sam Cedar]

Hey folks, today's episode is brought to you by one of my favorite sponsors. Probably actually my favorite sponsor, to be honest with you. I'm of course talking about sunsetlakesabaday.com use the code left is best, you get 20% off. Why would you use the code left is best for 20% [e-mail] well, of course, because maybe you need to relax, maybe you need to sleep. Maybe you need to have a little bit of fun with their Saba day with some tehte say. Or maybe you want to give somebody a gift for, for the holidays. Maybe you want to give them some Seba day coffee or Seba day fudge. Or actually the tinctures or maybe it's the moisturizer. Because your legs, for whatever reason this time of year get extremely dry. No other part of your body does. And you get itchy in the middle of the night and you want to use some of their seven day lotion, either the menthol or the unscented.

[Emma Vigeland]

You got to check those calves.

[Sam Cedar]

It's honestly I don't know what it is. It's the calves. It's the only part of my body. It's like I've insured them with Lloyd's of London. Or maybe you want to buy your sab a day from a company that has great business practices. $20 minimum wage, mostly employee owned. Or maybe it's because you want one with great farming practices, no pesticides. All of their SEBA is third party tested. They practice regenerative farming so they take care of the soil. Or maybe you want to support a company that is a movement partner. They have donated tens of thousands of dollars to things like refugee resettlement, strike relief funds to the Vermont Food Bank. I just saw they sent it to us. We ended up donating tens of thousands of dollars with them. With the last prisoner project, Carceral reform, the list goes on and on. It's a great company, it's a great product and you get it for 20% off. Left is best. And now time for the show the Majority Report with Sam Cedar. Where every day's casual Friday. That means Monday is casual. Monday, Tuesday casual Tuesday, Wednesday casual hump day. Thursday casual Thirs, that's what we call it. And Friday, casual Shabbat. The Majority Report with Sam Cedar. It is Friday, December 12, 2025. My name is Sam Cedar. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa on the program today, Will Sommer, senior reporter at the Bulwark, author of the False Flag newsletter. Also on the program today, Trump JD Vance's threats failed to convince Indiana to gerrymander alleged Charlie Kirk killer to appear in court for the first time today. House votes to repeal Trump's order to end union rights for federal workers as Mike Johnson loses control of the. The floor. I was going to say loses his mojo. His mojo. Trump's HUD investigating Boston. Yeah. Trump's hud. Trump's HUD investigating Boston for alleged housing discrimination against white people. Trump signs an EO to force the DOJ to sue states that regulate AI also to agencies to cut federal funding to those same states. Meanwhile, a federal judge orders FEMA to to reissue canceled disaster mitigation funding. Probably a good idea. And strike three as Trump's DOJ once again fails to convince a grand jury to indict Tish, James and Comey for that matter. Meanwhile, US Preparing to hijack more Venezuelan ships. And simultaneously US Threatens sanctions if the ICC does not put pledge to not prosecute Donald Trump. White House signals they will complete the Biden reclassification of Cannabis to Schedule 3. All this and so much more on today's Majority Report. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. It is casual Friday. Let me get this fixed here. It is casual Friday, ladies and gentlemen, but there's so much, things have been gotten increasingly crazy. Will Sommer is going to be here today to to to sort of track how insane things have gone on the right. It is, it is fascinating to watch them go off the rails like this.

[Emma Vigeland]

We're even like the House releasing those photos of Jeffrey Epstein and Trump now and Bill Gates and stuff like that's almost it just, it's not even at the top of the headlines because we might be going to, you know, war with Venezuela, for example.

[Sam Cedar]

And we should say, I mean that was the, that's the House Democrats that, that released that information. But it adds just another sort of stirring of the pot. We'll get to all this with Will Sommer. But the other really relevant thing that happened yesterday, on one hand we have the sort of the right wing media world falling apart. We have Donald Trump's polling plummeting. I mean just full on plummeting. He's at 30. Is it 36% approval rating.

[Emma Vigeland]

You want to pull that up now?

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, let's just pull that up.

[Emma Vigeland]

The AP stuff. Let's, I mean this was just absolutely stunning here. The AP NORC had a poll here where they looked at Trump's handling of the economy and then also on immigration, two major issues, and compared it to March 2025 when they asked the same questions. So let's just put this up here. You, you can see on the economy, Trump's overall approval rating is at 31%. On the economy, I mean, this is unheard of in my lifetime for a Republican president. I feel like, I'm not sure maybe at the end of Bush's.

[Sam Cedar]

I think it's the lowest maybe. I mean, when Bush's approval rating got into like the mid-30s, we were in real sort of like new territory territory.

[Emma Vigeland]

Stan. Stick on that though for a second, Matt, because look at that with Republicans though. They're down nine points from March. Only 69% of Republicans approve of his handling of the economy. That's like the lowest I've ever seen for him on one particular issue with Republicans. Is that crazy to say?

[Sam Cedar]

I don't know, to be honest with you, but it's low. But the bottom line is Donald Trump is getting into like sort of uniquely low approval territory.

[Emma Vigeland]

Can we just show that final one then? At least on immigration, he's fallen.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's get to that. But let's get to the immigration one later.

[Emma Vigeland]

But his overall Approval is at 30, 36% according to this, and only 74%, 74% of independents disapprove.

[Sam Cedar]

And so he's in deep doo doo. Now, I don't know if that's the only reason that Indiana, the lawmakers refused to do it. My suspicion is, and this is, you know, Donald Trump and the White House about, I want to say about four or five months ago, started to make a very dramatic push to get Republican controlled state houses around the country to redistrict. They did it in Texas despite the fact that it was racially gerrymandered. Supreme Court reversed the lower court's ruling that it was racially gerrymandered. And we should say the reason why people thought it was racially gerrymandered is because the DOJ sent the Texas a letter saying you should racially gerrymander this. And so that was one of the clues, nevertheless, that gerrymander is going to stand. But the idea was that there's going to be multiple states and there's going to be a gerrymander war. So California passes a referendum to gerrymander in response to Texas. But then the Republicans were counting on two new seats in Indiana. And it turns out that the speaker in the Indiana state House was not interested in that. And I suspect it is because a lot of them are not up for reelection. They don't think Trump's going to be around too much longer and that some of the incumbents were like, well, if you're going to gerrymander to get rid of these Democratic districts, you're going to take away my cushion in my seats. And I'm not interested in that because the Indiana Republicans already control the state anyways, so there's really no massive benefit for them. And I think they think they're going to lose the Congress this round go round as well. And none of the incumbents want to be in that position. But the violence that they were threatened with. Let's just hear this report.

[Matt]

This is from WTHR.

[WTHR Reporter]

That was the final vote. So that means 21 Republicans joined the 10 Democrats to end the mid decade redistricting debate. And this came more than three hours after three hours of passionate speeches on both sides of this issue for the Republicans in support of the bill. They argued this map would boost the Republican voice in Congress. But the ones who voted no say this would take away the voice of the voters.

[Will Sommer]

I believe the bill on its face is unconstitutional.

[Sam Cedar]

I've done my very best to quietly and respectfully listen to the people I represent. And I'm confident that my vote reflects the will of my constituents.

[WTHR Reporter]

So that last center you just heard from, that is Senator Greg Good. And you may remember just a few weeks ago, he received the first swatting attempt out of all of the senators that we have reported on. And he was a major swing vote throughout the entire debate. No one really knew what side he was going to end up on because he was pretty quiet on that. He ended up voting no. One of the 21 Republicans who voted no. So since this bill died, okay, there.

[Sam Cedar]

Were multiple swattings of these Indiana state senators. There was multiple threats issued against them, like for physical violence against them. And here's One threat from J.D. vance. And this is important because if you think that Donald Trump is not going to be around, you got to worry about J.D. vance. And this is number eight. Here is J.D. vance retweeting and carrying on Donald Trump's threat. Put this up. Donald Trump Jr. Donald Trump Jr. Sorry, Rod Bray. So Donald Trump Jr. Said if Indiana Republicans side with these never Trumpers to do the dirty work of Democrats, I'll be spending a lot of time in Indiana next year campaigning against every single one of them. These Rhino consultants sabotaging MAGA need to be rooted out of the gop.

[Emma Vigeland]

This isn't, by the way, the consultants. What are you talking about? Like the Heritage foundation was making this push. The Trump super PACs are behind these threats against these lawmakers to go after them. This wasn't money on their side. In fact, it's actually the opposite. The Trump, like super PAC machine was threatening the lawmakers that weren't acquiescing.

[Sam Cedar]

Put up the JD Vance tweet. Rod Bray, the Senate leader in Indiana, has consistently told us he wouldn't fight redistricting while simultaneously whipping his members against it. That level of dishonesty cannot be rewarded in the Indiana Republicans need to choose a side. Now, this was, this was just before the vote, I think, or right after. And here is Heritage Action. Like Emma said, this is the Heritage Foundation. This is the most important prominent right wing conservative Republican think tank. President Trump has made it clear to Indiana leaders if the Indiana Senate fails to pass the map, all federal funding will be stripped from the state. Roads will not be paved. Guard bases will close, major projects will stop. These are the stakes. And every no vote will be to blame. Well, here's the fascinating part. Now let's see them put up. I mean, first off, none of those senators, first off, none of those senators are up for reelection in 2026. Now, Trump Jr. I don't know if he bothered not to sort of look that up. Maybe he doesn't have Google, maybe he doesn't have ChatGPT or whatever it is.

[Matt]

I mean, he has mirrors, he just doesn't use them.

[Sam Cedar]

Exactly. And, and they're kicked up. The real question is, is Donald Trump going to follow through on those threats? Because obviously the Indiana lawmakers weren't worried about it, not enough to do his bidding. And this is going to show that he is, even to those Republicans, a total paper tiger, at least in terms of the threats. Who knows what the constituents will do to them. But I think if they don't go right after Donald Trump, they're in no threat from their constituents. And this is how it starts to break apart. And so it's going to be. And J.D. vance is on record there saying, this cannot stand. Well, what are you going to do about it, Chief?

[Matt]

Yeah, it stood. So what?

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly. Right. Call their bluff. And then there was also that he was trying to get Kansas to do this. They're not gonna redistrict them that way. I think Nebraska and New Hampshire too, they've already rejected his demands. And I think that when we look back at this time period, we will see that Epstein vote as the pivotal moment for Trump because it showed the base really breaking from him on one particular issue. I mean when you see the polling on his handling of that case, he loves to talk about an 8020 issue. That's a real damn 8020 issue. People don't like it. And so he showed himself to be a paper tiger then in being unable to whip those votes and calling every Republican. And they tried for a long time getting Mike Johnson to not seat Representative Grialva for weeks and weeks to try to engage in this cover up. But in the end the dam had to break and Trump was unable to get his way. And it really feels like since then, and then of course paired with this horrible economic situation and the polling that's resulted from that, he's just been falling apart and he's already in lame duck territory. I mean I don't want to speak too. That's what it feels like.

[Sam Cedar]

I think he was in lame duck as soon as they got their tax cuts. Because again, what's left of their agenda? Nothing. Nothing? Yeah, there is no, there's nothing left of their agenda. Like what? Like what? Name me one thing that Republicans are talking about passing or running on or whatever it is. They have no agenda. I mean there's nothing. And I wonder too. Mike Pence was a former governor of Indiana. You know, he wasn't terribly popular when Donald Trump picked him as governor. I think his approval rating was around 40% in 2015. But I imagine he still has some friends in the Indiana state government, who knows. But a very interesting story. In a moment we're going to be talking to Will Sommer who is a senior reporter at the Bulwark has author of False Flag newsletter has been covering this. Like the right wing, I don't know, what do you call it?

[Emma Vigeland]

Ecosystem.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, media ecosystem for years. And we'll talk about the other pillar of the Republican party that is falling apart. But first a couple of words from our sponsors. You want to think about a thoughtful gift. This is going to be. This is sort of like a one actually is thoughtful. It's about self care and with neutral fall you can give the gift of stronger and faster growing hair. An ideal gift for anyone who deserves a boost of confidence. Science backed support. Heading into the new year, Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. It's trusted by over one and a half million people. Sees thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months. And the reason why that's a good gift is, you know, people sometimes are just reluctant to try these things and Nutrafol doesn't have the side effects as those sort of mainstream drugs. Which is why I started taking it about, I don't know, almost two years ago, maybe now a year and a half. And at first it was because we had it around the office from back in the day where they had asked us to be a sponsor. At the time, I was like, I don't, I don't need to take this. And others in the office were not interested. And, but I started taking it because I started feeling like a little bit of like a thinning up here and it's been great. My hair is, I feel the difference. And really my hair at this, at my age, like, that's one of the few things I got going for me. So this holiday season, neutral falls the perfect gift for people on your list. Your mom or your aunt. Em and I both know women who have had a lot of success with this. Your dad, a new mom friend who has told you about hair shedding. Also yourself or anyone looking to support their overall hair health. It's probably not something you ever thought of as a gift, but they're going to be thanking you later. Gifting something that someone actually needs is thoughtful and impactful way to show you care. Nutrafol makes it easy. It's thoughtful, practical and meaningful. Give the gift of confidence this holiday season with Nutrafol. Whether you're treating yourself or someone else on your list visibly healthier, thicker hair is the gift that keeps on giving. Right now, Nutrafol is offering our listeners 10 bucks off your first month subscription, plus free shipping. When you go to Nutrafol.com, use the promo code TMR10. That's Nutrafol.com, promo code TMR10. All one. Well, no spaces, the letters TMR, the numerals 10 for $10 off. We will put that in the podcast and YouTube description. Also sponsoring the program today. Doesn't matter whether you're shopping for your brother, your sister, an activist, maybe someone who lights their farts on fire. Give the gift that refuses to be lame, that refuses to pick a lane. Hello. Tushy Bidet is the perfect gift to indulge every personality on your list. Tushy Bidet is a daily techie luxury that's refreshingly practical and easy to use. Getting a bidet is a revelation. Honestly, it changes so much about your day. Why are you embarrassed about this? Look, that's the thing that people don't really understand. I had no idea what a bidet was growing up. I had no idea what a bidet was. I just have a quick question. When you say people light their farts on fire, is that implying that they're on fire and the bidet is putting them out? I don't know exactly why Tushy's copy is not always like, you know, but I don't know. That was a samism. No, no, that wasn't me. But, but the, the but I read it just because I know that Emma's gonna groan. But I'm telling you, a bidet is great. Tushy is the everyday luxury bidet that instantly transforms your bathroom habits and bottom health for life. And you don't need to go out and spend $1,500 on it. Like Tim Pool's bidet, which incidentally I ruined. This is much better because it attaches to your toilet and if you literally, if you've ever changed a toilet seat, you can do this. It takes about honestly 10 minutes and now they've got like upgraded versions. The Tushy wave instantly modernizes your daily routine and bathroom with a super sleek seat plus two separate front and rear nozzles for the most complete clean. It also features a soft close live lid and that seats a slam proof for gentle luxurious finish. Every Tushy bidet easily attaches to your existing toilet without the need for additional plumbing. This is daily decadence with practical results. Tushy pristinely removes 99% of bacteria while protecting your natural skin barrier thanks to one natural ingredient, water. When your hands get dirty, you don't just take a dry piece of paper and wipe them off. You use water. It's easy to use, sit, cleanse and dry using the built in hair dryer. Air dryer I should say. That's right. Cleaning yourself after using the bathroom is now hands free. Every hello Tushy bidet comes with a 30 day hassle, free return and a 12 month warranty. Want to thank Tushy for sponsoring this episode and my cleaner pump. Remember a a hole is only a dirty word if you wipe for a limited time. Our listeners get 10% off their first bidet order. When you use the code TMR at checkout, it's 10% off your first bidet order at hello tushy.com with promo code TMR and one more sponsor for the day. And you know a lot of cleaning that's going on. Obviously during the holiday season you got people over and maybe you get your washing your dishes. Do you want to have, you know, eating microplastics? No. Do you want to have to like Lug big jugs of cleaners and dishwashing fluid and laundry detergent and back from the supermarket. No, you don't. You want to make things easy and healthier around your house. Blue Land. I have switched all of my cleaning products to Blue Land. Around my house and the office, Blueland products meet the highest standard of clean. They're effective yet gentle on people and the planet. In fact, Blueland was named an EPA Safer Choice Partner of the year. From cleaning sprays and toilet bowl cleaner to dishwasher in laundry detergent tablets, Blueland's formulas are 100% microplastic free. They are made with certified clean ingredients, free from chlorine bleach, free from harsh chemicals that are safe to use around my cat, my kid, my plants. I don't do very well with the plants though. But that's not because of Blue Land. You're going to love not having to choose between the safe option and what actually gets your home clean. So we use Blueland's hand soap in the office. We use it in my house. You can get all sorts of different festive smelling products. I of course go for the, for the fragrance free. But I use Blueland dishwasher tablets at home. In the office we use Blueland dishwasher powder. You know, for just washing the mugs. I use Blueland laundry tablets. I use Blueland toilet tablets. I mean all of this stuff is just great and easy to store. Less expensive than the stuff you buy at the supermarket. I'm telling you, this is, this is, this is a no brainer. Stock up on your sustainable cleaning products for yourself or to give a beautiful sustainable gift to your friends and family this holiday season. Go to blueland.com/mainvance save up to 30% during Blueland's holiday sale. Don't wait. They only do this once a year. That's 30% off of during Blue Lands holiday sale by going to blue land.com/majority blue land.com/majority for 30% off. Now is the time to stock up for the year. Quick break. When we come back, will Summer senior reporter Bulwark author of the False Flag newsletter. Be right back.

[Emma Vigeland]

It.

[Sam Cedar]

Sam. It. We are back. Sam Cedar Emma Vigland on the Majority Report. Want to welcome back to the program Will Summer, senior reporter at the Bulwark, author of the False Flag newsletter and Will I guess we're about two weeks away from Christmas or somewhere around there and it's almost as if like Christmas started significantly earlier for you based upon what has been going on. And this is Extraordinary. Give us like sum it up if you can, because we have three hours a day and I still feel like we can't fully explain this or capture it.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, sure. I mean so right now there is kind of this massive right wing civil war that is going in a lot of different directions. But kind of the hottest part at the moment is the fight over Candace Owens. So Candace Owens, you know, Prageru, former Charlie Kirk acolyte, now she's this massively successful YouTuber and she has been really making grist out of the Charlie Kirk murder for got three months now. I mean she really got into these conspiracy theories and has sort of had the feel to herself. And finally in the past two weeks, people like Tim Pool and now Erica Kirk, Charlie Kirk's widow, have said enough is enough and they're trying to stop her. And let's just say I don't think it's working so far.

[Sam Cedar]

No, it doesn't seem to be. But let's like this is, it is fascinating because it really feels like a snake eating its own tail at this point. And it's doing it with the sort of the. Let's, let's play this. Tim Pool responding to Candace Owens. Okay. And I think we play maybe in the past couple of days what Tim Pool is responding to. But Candace Owen has been. And Tim Pool went at it. Tim Pool claims that he was shot at. His compound is shot at now. I've been to his compound. I am shocked. There's only one road that goes by it. It's in the middle of nowhere. I'm shocked that there isn't like, and.

[Emma Vigeland]

We figured this out yesterday that it's deer hunting season like literally right now down there.

[Matt]

Yeah. Gun season started at the end of.

[Sam Cedar]

Two years before this. He also complained about people shooting at him at this exact same time of year.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

That's amazing. That's amazing. I didn't realize that that's amazing. But so he claims he shot at and he got very, very indignant about it. Like I don't know if I've ever seen Tim Pool as mad except for like when maybe when Emma went on his show and sort of embarrassed him a little bit. But I don't know if I've ever seen him more mad than that. And Candace Owen just calmly pulled him apart in her video. I also should say I think she's lunatic and but here is Tim Pool responding to her. This is clip number 15. I've gotten a bunch of emails, shocking revelations and I've gotten people coming to me and talking about what she really does. And I want answers. I want answers. Who's she working for? Who is Candace Owens working for? Don't you think it's a little weird?

[Emma Vigeland]

Can you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. First of all, I just have to say shout out to Nathan Robinson. That's the current affairs piece that he wrote that Tim is reading from. So secondly, he's copying her.

[Sam Cedar]

That's the point. I mean, so we'll Doing the cadence.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, he's.

[Sam Cedar]

He's almost verbatim copying what she said. But the problem is. And I want you to speak to this. We know this because we follow this stuff, but most of his audience probably doesn't know that he's doing a satire because this is what he's doing every other day of the year.

[Will Sommer]

Yes. I mean, the idea that Tim Pool will now play the character of a maniac who is, like, paranoid and, you know, convinced that. That there are threats around every corner. I mean, as you said, that's what he talks about all the time. You know, he's. He's really. He's trying to fake the funk here. I mean, he's kind of trying to steal her charisma and, you know, kind of talk slowly and, you know, raise these questions. I mean, he's really just kind of riled up after this supposed shooting on his property, which, by the way, he won't give the police the surveillance video. You know, it makes you wonder, did.

[Sam Cedar]

He even record it?

[Will Sommer]

So supposedly he did report it, but he said he won't get. TMZ reported yesterday that he hasn't given them the surveillance video because he doesn't want to reveal where the cameras are located. But if he won't give that to the police, I mean, that seems a little weird to me. You know, it may very well have happened, but. But this is kind of the inciting incident for why Tim Pool has gone so crazy with this stuff.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, how do you. He won't give the survey. I mean, there's. Why wouldn't you give the survey? Because he's got a gated thing. He could put the cameras behind the fences. And if you have like a, you know, I don't know, like a nest cam or something like that, it stores it the information on a hard drive that nobody can access even if they were to pull the camera down. This doesn't make any sense.

[Will Sommer]

No, it doesn't, really. I mean, why again? I mean, he doesn't want to reveal the location of the cameras. Can you move them to A different tree after that. I mean, does he have his own? Is the Tim cast crew going to take care of this on their own without the police? You know, who knows?

[Sam Cedar]

Let's, let's go back to though. The, the real incitement for Candace Owens was Milo Yannianopoulos appearing on Tim Pool Show. And Milo. Will you just give people like a slight history of Milo Yannianopoulos? Because this guy seems to be like burning everything down and I'm enjoying it.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I mean Milo's really on the loose these days. I mean he's this kind of longtime right wing provocateur. He's a British G guy. The amount of like, I mean, to be fair, you know, he got really into the ex gay stuff. He did like even kind of like QVC Catholic stuff where he would like sell rosaries and stuff. But now I think he's, I think it's more a little vaguer like how gay he is these days, at least publicly. He's living with the guy who founded a, I believe American Apparel in like a mansion in la. It's like very run down.

[Sam Cedar]

Now this is not his husband because I know that he broke up with his or his, his paramour. I'm not sure what legal status was. They broke up and just became roommates. Left gazedness, I guess when he decided to convert.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, he goes through a lot of identities and sort of angles as a right wing character. But as you said, I mean he has this kind of reputation historically. Every few years he'll say, I have everyone's secrets on this hard drive he calls the Vault. And he'll threatened to give it to the FBI. Or he'll say, you know, I'm going to give it to X person and they're going to reveal everyone's identities or secrets. And in this case you're right. I mean, he's really on a tear here. He's kind of affiliated with Candace. He's going a little further than her. He's saying, you know, where did they bury Charlie's body? Suggesting, you know, something nefarious happened there. But, but as you said, I mean he's really, you know, trying to attack people like Benny Johnson, for example.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I want to get into Benny Johnson, but just with Milo, people should remember that he was really sort of like at the, the, the pivot point of Gamergate because he was riding for Breitbart under Bannon's tutelage at that time in the run up to the 2015 election. And he more than probably any single Individual made Gamergate into a thing. And that sort of like drummed up the men's right activists. I mean, it was the sort of the precursor to all of this, it seems like. And Milo, I wonder if you ever caught this too. He was on. The last time he was on, Tim Pool accused Ben Shapiro of essentially buying all of his audience years ago when there was that big Facebook buys that they were doing. And he said, like, this is the way it works in right wing media. You fake it. You fake it until you make it.

[Emma Vigeland]

And shout out to Jose, who just did a great video on Ben Shapiro and looked into some of those claims about and how his engagement is so much lower than these other right wing. His views may look good, but his engagement is very, very different than equivalent right wing YouTubers who are getting a lot more attention. So it lends credence to that theory.

[Sam Cedar]

Sam, have you so. Well, you've been following this stuff for a long time. Have you ever seen it, this sort.

[Will Sommer]

Of.

[Sam Cedar]

Like, inward facing.

[Will Sommer]

No, I mean, I've never seen sort of a, you know, sort of circular firing squad or the just amount of enmity there is on the right, especially because it's not like they're really fighting over a politician. It's not like someone loves Desantis, someone likes Trump. I mean, they're just going at each other. The administration kind of sitting off to the sidelines, you know, everything. Like, obviously Nick Fuentes, the Heritage foundation ended up in their own trouble with that. I mean, it really is like the vibes are just really awful right now. And you can see it with things like, again, Milo just kind of trying to take people out sort of for no reason, just because he feels like it. So a little chaos. You know, you got Candace Owens. I mean, it really is everyone sort of turning on each other. And, you know, as you mentioned, Tim Pool is furious.

[Sam Cedar]

Why do you think this is happening? I'm just curious. Why do you think this is happening? Because it. It, for the most part, it feels like the way that they have succeeded is by, you know, sort of like feeding off each other. And it feels like maybe like Crowder was the first sort of like incident where he had his big con thing was the first time that we saw this. And is it that they. They're making enough money that they're independent now and they see each other as rivals or what? What is it?

[Will Sommer]

I mean, I think it's a couple things just in the past couple months. I mean, one, I think the Charlie Kirk assassination was a big deal. You Know, he had kind of a way to keep people out of the GOP or at least to sort of take someone like Nick Fuentes and say, like, okay, you're going to be, you're not really going to be the public face of the party. And he was also just friends with a lot of people. And so, but with him gone, I think there's this kind of power vacuum. So a lot of people are seeing themselves as kind of I should step up and take his mantle and frankly, I mean, take the money, you know, that's now on the table. So I think. And then, you know, the, the other aspect is that Trump is on his way out and he's being seen as kind of a failed president. He's not getting done what they want. And so you have to kind of then start positioning yourself to 2028. And as a result, you know, people are kind of picking out their positions and fighting over that.

[Emma Vigeland]

And I just, I think it's important to, to, to also just linger on the Charlie Kirk thing for a second. The more, you know, Candace Owens is off on her own and she's making a ton of money. She's immensely popular. Right. But you have guys like Tim Pool, who, I think Tim, he talked a little bit about how, you know, he's making new relationships. It seemed like he was cozying up a little bit to the Daily Wire. We heard the reporting that he's been meeting, he met with Benjamin Netanyahu and he didn't have that money anymore from Edward Gregorian and the Russians. It's dried up. So, like, he's looking to align himself and continue to make money in this ecosystem. Candace doesn't have to worry about that. She's like a, an operation into herself. So with these other right wing personalities, they're trying to use the Charlie Kirk death in their own way for the Republican Project. But Candace isn't doing that. She said, literally, I don't care about the midterms. She's doing this and exploiting it in her own way with this, like, level of emotionality. I keep giving my husband credit for this point because he was a great point about Alex Jones and how they're similar because they, they tap into people's, like, lizard brains about this stuff with their, like, passion and performance. She's very much like a female Alex Jones. Her incentive structure is very different than the rest of these Republican influencers. And I think that's part of why they're so mad at her.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I think that's a great point from your husband. I Mean, I think you watch it and you kind of like lock in. I mean, at least in the beginning. I mean, I think she started to kind of have some retreads. But I talked to this one right wing personality and I said, you know, God, what do you think of what Candace is doing? And within a week of the assassination, she's spinning all these conspiracy theories. And he said, I'm just, I'm like, I'm locked in. I mean, it's fascinating to watch and it's kind of a high wire act. I mean, it also, I should say, if you watch it, I mean, it can be you say, wait, why are we talking about MK Ultra? We're talking about Iran Contra now. And you know, these guys have the same last name. I mean, she just sort of weaves this web that I think a lot of people are buying into, you know, even though it doesn't really make a lot of sense. But it's interesting you mentioned that the midterms thing, I think she really angered a lot of people. I guess it was still in the past week when she said, I don't care about the midterms because Tim Pool said, you're going to mess up the midterms. And she said, I don't care. They murdered my friend. Which I think for the audience is a much more compelling thing than, okay, we have to, we have to win a majority in the House again. But, you know, I think that really, when you kind of start touching the money, start touching the power, that sets a lot of people off on the right. I mean, I think back to the 2028 special election in Georgia when Lin Wood, who was so crazy and he was so into QAnon and everyone loved him, they didn't mind that. But as soon as he said, you know what? The elections are stolen. Who cares about voting? Then suddenly they were like, whoa, you're going too crazy for us, man. And I think a similar thing is happening.

[Sam Cedar]

Here is the, I mean, when, when Tim Pool says, you know, that she's going to ruin the midterm elections, what is your sense of that? Because it seems to me to the extent that there's going to be any implications for the elections, it's going to be because Turning Points maybe is getting less funding, maybe like, but that seems to be a function of like, Charlie Kirk was the face of Turning Points. I mean, even to the point where this guy is lauded as a free speech hero because he goes on campuses and debates college students, yet the organization, the first thing that they ever did was Basically set up a portal to report your professor and to drum professor, put them all on blacklists, which apparently the media has completely, just completely memory hold. But now that he's gone and you've got those, I don't know the troika or whomever it is that's doing a show, one of whom is Blake Neff, which I didn't realize he was the guy who got fired from Fox News because he was posting on white supremacy sites and putting white supremacy memes into Tucker Carlson stuff, as if Tucker needed that type of help. But what is your sense about what's going on at Turning Points?

[Will Sommer]

I mean, I think Turning Point is really struggling to respond to this. I mean, on one hand, I think they still have a lot of, you know, wealthy donors who are willing to fund them. On the other, I think sort of with the grassroots, I mean, obviously after the assassination there was this real sense, I think among the average conservative or, you know, right leaning independent, that, you know, Turning Point was so wonderful and this was kind of Charlie Kirk's mission. But since then, and I think the Candace Owens stuff has had a lot to do with this. People say, oh, these guys covered up their friend's murder. I mean, it's crazy stuff. But every, you know, every tweet from someone like Blake Neff or Andrew Colvett, who is sort of Charlie Kirk's right hand man who's now on the show as well, you know, it's just all these people saying like, you know, when will you reveal, you know, why Charlie was murdered for, for turning on Israel? And I think that that manages to have a real effect. You know, I saw, you know, obviously you want to get beyond just kind of like what people's replies on xr. But you know, even in sort of conservative mom Facebook groups, someone was relaying that, you know, they, oh, let's buy a bunch of Turning Point shirts or something. And then all these people are saying, I'm not helping those people, they murder. So I think this, this Candace Owens stuff is really sinking in with people.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, it, it sort of feels like that. It also sort of feels like, is this created, do you think that this, the fact that the killer, the alleged killer was not the profile that the right would have wanted for, you know, from a, from a communication standpoint. And we suddenly got like, we got this rush of information early on, stuff that we shouldn't have probably heard about, frankly, it seemed to me in an investigation like that. And then it went dead silent because they realized we're ruining Our investigation, probably. But that created sort of a vacuum of. It built an expectation of what we were going to hear about this person. Then it all went away. That created this room for this kind of conspiracy theory. And look, I haven't dug into it. Maybe you have. And you're absolutely sure it's wrong? I don't. I'm. It's not my. Not my beat. But do you think that's what's driving this?

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I mean, I think you can see from people like Benny Johnson, from gosh, people like that. They're basically. They're not like Candace supportive, but they're trying to say, well, why is the FBI not creating their own conspiracy theory? Essentially, they're getting mad that people like Cash Patel are not, like, stringing out narrative stuff. Tucker Carlson, for example, said, you know, the FBI needs to be out here answering all our questions. I mean, we know in reality that's not how the FBI works. They don't sort of, after they've caught the guy, they don't then say, we found something else, you know, before the trial. And so I think, because this audience has just demands this kind of constant feed of content, and they want to learn, you know, well, what's. What's up with the Discord Chat? What was up with the roommate? I think on one hand, it's kind of surprising they haven't been satisfied with this explanation because, you know, the trans roommate, all this stuff. You would think they would be kind of happy with the idea that, you know, Tyler Robinson acted out because he saw Charlie Kirk as his figure of hate, that this would kind of fit their narrative. But they really seem to want, like, Egyptian planes flying around. This is the Candace Owens thing. They want, you know, global networks of assassins, stuff like that.

[Sam Cedar]

The. I mean, they sort of have a point in the sense, because the, the FBI did that in the first couple of days, right? I mean, you had the governor coming out there saying this stuff, which wildly inappropriate, and they basically said, like, they set the expectations, it seems to me, for what they were going to hear. And I guess it doesn't help that Erica Kirk is, you know, she's a performative person. I mean, she just is. I mean, I don't know. You know, and that didn't mean that. That the, the alleged killer wasn't the alleged killer, but her reactions to it are different than your average person would be.

[Will Sommer]

I think that's right. I. I think the way she has acted, which involves initially, like, a lot of, you know, we saw the coffin, you know, soon after you know, she's kind of grieving very publicly. And then I think understandably from an emotional view, she kind of receded and became much more private. But I think for the audience, they continue to want, you know, okay, well, where is the body buried? You know, where are these things? And, you know, I think, you know, she has sort of struggled to take that mantle as kind of a right wing media personality. Maybe she doesn't want it, but I think, particularly now that she's starting to criticize Candace, I think she's starting to be seen as sort of a figure in this and someone who in the past was sort of untouchable, you know, even for the conspiracy theorists. But I think now they're starting to zero in on her. But I don't think it's going well for Erica Kirk or Turning Point usa.

[Sam Cedar]

Is she on a book tour now? Because Kirk's book has come out. And, you know, we saw her the other day on Fox and Friends saying that Charlie would come home on a Friday night. She didn't care when he came home. He would put his phone in like the everything draw, which, you know, people do that. And it's probably good practice. And he would say Shabbat Shalom, as if. I don't. Maybe he celebrated the Jewish Shabbat. You know, putting away your work stuff on Shabbat is Shabbat practice. But I wonder how much of like, is she promoting the book and signaling to donors? Because we know from Charlie Kirk's text, at least from Candace Owens, to the extent that we know those are real, that he was dealing with some, you know, very pro Israel Jewish donors who were like dangling millions of dollars and maybe they need that. I mean, do you. What's your sense of that? Have you done any reporting around that?

[Will Sommer]

So this is a pretty sticky wicket here. I mean, there's all this weird stuff about, like, what was Charlie Kirk's religion? You know, Candace Owens has claimed he was on the verge of converting to Catholicism. And then soon after the assassination from sort of like evangelical Christianity, which obviously really enraged the turning point people, because they're, they're very, you know, Charlie Kirk is kind of this, they see him as this kind of new and Great Awakening type figure for evangelicals. But then sort of soon after the assassination, it came out that he kept the Jewish Shabbat. And as you said, I mean, it's a little odd. The book is called Stop in the Name of God, and so they bill it as the Sac Sabbath. But really what he's describing here is Shabbat. I mean, it seems to be very, you know, kind of we're putting the devices away, stuff like that.

[Sam Cedar]

And she literally said he would say Shabbat shalom. I mean, that's, you know, I mean, like, it didn't sound like he was saying it, like, with irony, which would be funny, like, Shabbat shalom. Honey, I'm home. Ah, that's funny. We're so Christian.

[Will Sommer]

No, well, you're right. I mean, so he was very into the Shabbat practice. I mean, he wrote a book about it. And as you point to, the conspiracy theorists have really zoomed in on, like, what role did Jewish people, what role did pro Israel donors play at Turning Point usa? So then suddenly to say, all right, here's his book about being Jewish or being, you know, partially Jewish. You know, as Candace said, she kind of quipped, you know, oh, I guess the whole point of Charlie Kirk was that everyone should become a Jew. And so I guess I would say it's kind of a weird message at this point where there are all these accusations and this kind of acrimony over Israel within Turning Point usa.

[Sam Cedar]

They couldn't delay the book.

[Will Sommer]

It's pretty bizarre to me. I mean, I agree, but you know what I will say Erica has also kind of been using the name of the book as like a message to her haters or her detractors. And she'll say, all I would say to you is stop in the name of God with the book.

[Sam Cedar]

When did Charlie Kirk become so Christian forward? I debated him. I think it was back in like, 2018. I think it was 2018 or 2017. I can't remember exactly when at Politicon, maybe it was like, yeah, it must have been 2018 or maybe 2019 somewhere around there. And I did not. I didn't know him too, too well, but he did not seem to be super religious. I mean, around that time, I remember him being on stage with gay, young gay Republicans trying to push, you know, speak to college students and saying, like, you know, look, we're, you know, we're not. We're not the old Republican Party, we're the new Republican Party, which was addressing the fact that they were losing a lot of young people because they were. The Republican Party was, you know, seen as being anti marriage equality. And I remember when the groipers would come up at the microphone and go, what are you doing with the gay guy on stage? And they would get, you know, sort of really explicit and Charlie was defending it. And then it seems like four or Five years later, he's getting much more Christian and, you know, wasn't renouncing gay marriage, but it felt like there was a progression happening.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I think you're right on, Sam. I mean, I don't know that I can point to a specific year or something that this happened, but I do think particularly in the Biden administration and sort of going into this new Trump administration, there was this new kind of religiosity, and I think it sort of mirrors this larger rise on the right. I mean, we can think of so many people, Russell Brand for one, people who have kind of had this like religious conversion and said, I'm so Christian now.

[Sam Cedar]

Carlson was attacked by a demon, apparently.

[Will Sommer]

Yes, the demon. You know, some, some people on the right, they said, they said it was one of his dogs and he was kind of dreaming, you know, and he, he's taken that to be a demon. But there is this kind of, you know, Nick Fuentes, as you mentioned, the gripers. There are a lot of these people who suddenly have had, you know, this kind of new religiosity and I think oftentimes it's, you know, they're kind of trying to bounce back from some scandal or something. I mean, I don't think that's the case for Charlie Kirk.

[Matt]

But, but I agree.

[Will Sommer]

I mean, there's this launch of Turning Point Action, which was sort of the religious wing of Turning Point, and people like Cand, she's kind of waging her own war here because she's Catholic, they're evangelical. And Turning Point Action has sort of been portrayed as like the perversion of the Turning Point message or this sort of sinister operation. You know, it, it is a, it's sort of a weird blend, everything that's going on there between the politics and the religion.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, go on, go ahead. Well, I just. Okay. You know, you wrote a book on QAnon. We've had you on to talk that Trust the Plan. People should really check out that book. Can you talk a little bit about how QAnon fits into this? Because Epstein, and the fact that Trump engaged in this cover up and the Republicans, Mike Johnson at the very least assisted him in that, feels like it took the wind out of the sails of some of that conspiracies. And is that energy, which is also very religious in its, like, structure. There's good and evil and a secret cabal and we are like the, the Christian knights fighting against this. Like, it feels like it. That kind of took on a new, it shapeshifted a little. But the particulate matter is still the same with this Charlie Kirk thing.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great insight, Emma. I mean, I. I think, you know, the. Just to establish first of all, the religious aspect of QAnon. I mean, there was this sense they called themselves, you know, soldiers for God or, you know, digital soldiers. This idea, you know, you're rescuing children for God. I mean, what could be a higher calling? And all you have to do is just go online and post and watch YouTube videos. And I think, you know, I think you're onto something here, that this sort of laid the groundwork. There was this idea, it got people used to this idea of like, online sleuthing into politics. And now you have, in the place of Q, you have Candace Owens, who's saying, you know, okay, well, someone sent us in in the same way that people would. Would kind of send into the QAnon forum. Now you're emailing Candace Owens and saying, well, I can't help but notice that, you know, this guy who used to work for the military has the same last name as Blake Neff. You know, what do you think's going on there? You know, I think I would also note that, like, the level of, like, quality of clue here is really poor. You know, a big one she'll run into is if anyone in Turning Point either was in the military or has a relative in the military. I mean, you're talking about, like, conservative activists and the idea that, you know, this guy was in the military. This is so crazy. This has to be a psyop. Let's.

[Sam Cedar]

I want to. I find this. This sort of fascinating that, like, this. This concept of there being, you know, sort of hoisted on their own petard here is. Let's put this. This, this. This is number 14. This is Matt Walsh complaining on X that what's going on is both. Here, pop this up onto the screen. This is number 14.

[Matt]

Yeah, sorry, we got the wrong link. One second.

[Sam Cedar]

So Matt Walsh is one of many, including Tim Pool, who are complaining that Candace Owens is, like, caught up in a web of conspiracy. But, like, all of this, all of this is a function of, like, this is what they. There's one obvious hole in the Charlie Kirk assassination story, which is that leftist trans freaks were posting about the killing before it happened. That would seem to indicate that they were potentially even more leftists involved in the plot. If there's a conspiracy, it's among leftist radical militants. But either way, all of the evidence points to this being the work of at least one or possibly more than one radical leftist scumbag. They want us dead. They had every reason and motivation. So he's sort of complaining about this, like, sort of conspiracy thinking, but he's offering another conspiracy. And the tweets that he had. Do you have that other tweet that I put in right underneath that? The tweet that he was talking about where someone said, like, on. On September 10th, like, something big's going to happen on September 10th is done by this guy. And he did this every single day. So, like, the, you know, September 25th will be very interesting day. His whole. His whole thing was to tweet out that this day is going to be a very interesting day with the hopes that something would happen that day and people would say, like, he was clairvoyant. And so, like this quality. And then I want to put up this Chris Ruffo post. Chris Ruffo is supposed to be the, you know, an intellectual within the context of the right. Wingsphere, essentially. This is number 16. Rufo, I think, went on to be appointed, you know, like a dean or president of a college. Keep it up there. The right wing media apparatus is how the right teaches his followers how to think. And it's currently getting consumed by conspiracy, psychodrama, and tabloid conflicts. If left unchecked, it will turn the audience into the equivalent of a third world click farm. But this is the guy who went out there and basically wanted to label everything as critical race theory. This whole project, I mean, we can go back to Paul Ryan, put up this. Do you have that link, Matt? Paul Ryan, like, his whole shtick was, you know, in trying to say that you were more morally righteous if you were rich, that he. He rolled out a. An apocryphal story. This is back in here. Pop this up, Matt.

[Emma Vigeland]

We got it.

[Sam Cedar]

You got it. This is. This is where he was telling this story about a brown bag lunch and how there was a kid who came up to an official in Wisconsin. It was like, the first time he told it, he said it happened to him, and then he conceded it happened to somebody in Wisconsin. And then it turned out he ultimately had to apologize because the story was actually lifted from a fictional book or from a. From a book. And the whole meaning of it was twisted. But, like, this has been. We have nothing like this on the left. I mean, I go off the top my head. Vince Foster, like Rush Limbaugh, who Charlie Kirk, you know, took his seat, had this whole conspiracy about Vince Foster and how Hillary Clinton killed him and dragged his body into a park and, and then you've got like, I don't know, go through the years Benghazi, just as recently, they eat cats, they eat dogs. Seth Rich, Jewish space lasers, weather machines. These are all promulgated by birtherism. That's how we got Donald Trump as the president. And Speaker Boehner was off on this. Like, this is their whole trade and now they're complaining about it.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I mean, completely. I mean, and again, you could keep listening for five more minutes. Examples of that. I mean, you can see that basically they're mad that the tactics have been turned word by Candace Owens primarily. I mean, they want to be doing the conspiracy theories, but aimed at the left. I mean, yeah, Christopher Rufo of all people, saying, you know, like, hey, how to stay rational here, guys?

[Sam Cedar]

And do you think, like her race has anything to do with their, like, like how tricky it is for them to go after her? Like the fact that she is a black woman, does that like, make it more complicated? Because, you know, first thing is like, it's not like Donald Trump doesn't attack black women, like literally on a daily basis and a, an unknown, you know, to their audience, black woman. But I wonder if it's more difficult for them because of this.

[Will Sommer]

I think the fact that Candace Owens is sort of, I would say, like pretty transparently a mercenary figure throughout her entire political career. I mean, she emerged as kind of an anti gamergate person. They didn't want anything to do with her. She became a pro gamergate person and then kind of has been through the conservative media apparatus since then. And yeah, I mean, I think the race is an aspect of it. I mean, so many of them have really celebrated her as this, you know, bold voice that now, you know, I think it's very complex for them now to say, okay, but this is the one conspiracy theory that is too far and too tasteless for us.

[Sam Cedar]

Where do you think this goes? Or where do you think the right wingers who you talk to think this goes?

[Will Sommer]

Well, you know, the big showdowns on Monday, Turning Point USA is going to have the big debate. They've invited her in person. They say it has to be in person, which is kind of a Tim Pool move as well. And, you know, they want to debate the conspiracy theories. I kind of don't think she's going to go. Her friend, her fans think the French Foreign Legion is going to assassinate her. It's a trap. Hopefully that won't happen. But you know, I think longer term.

[Sam Cedar]

She said the ground rule is no assassinations. She says yes.

[Will Sommer]

And hopefully Turning Point agrees to that ground rule. You know, the question is, I think longer term, I think as Trump kind of wanes on the right, and, you know, the economic incentives are incredibly good for someone like Candace, as you mentioned. So I think more. More people are going to kind of start splitting and making these sort of politically counterproductive conspiracy theories.

[Sam Cedar]

Matt had a good point the other day that she does. Also True Crime podcast. Is that right? And how much of that is like, here's the script. Just change out. It's like Mad Libs. I'm just gonna put in different subjects.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, yeah.

[Will Sommer]

I mean, you know, I think that's correct. You know, she's also really into, like, celebrity gossip with sort of a sort of reactionary valence to it. She. She got really big with Blake Lively versus Justin Baldoni. And so, I mean, in the same way, I mean, I think she can fit people. You know, Erica Kirk, she says, I don't know, Erica, you're acting a little like Meghan Markle. So it kind of fits all into that same world.

[Emma Vigeland]

What does that mean? What does that mean, acting like Meghan Markle?

[Sam Cedar]

Explanation on that was that Meghan Markle demands. She expects publicity when she wants it and privacy when she wants it.

[Will Sommer]

Exactly. Because. Because I believe she wouldn't reveal Charlie's gravesite.

[Matt]

All right, speaking of women, we should do this Joel Berry tweet this. This went up. I don't know if you saw this. Will Joe Berry, who's the managing editor of the Babylon Bee, had a tweet here. Christian men, if your wife is listening to Candace Owens, you have an important and difficult task ahead of you as spiritual head of the home. The scriptures tell husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave them. I'm going to skip over that. Your wife's spiritual health is your responsibility, and it's your job to protect her from influences that will rot her soul from the inside out. Find what scripture says about slander, false witness, gossip, and backbiting. Find verses about the importance. I mean, and this is a real problem right now. Don't let your wife so languish under the torrent of gossip and smut. And if you look at Candace's ads, it's all like, skin care stuff. Like, I think she is very clearly speaking to the women. And Patrick bet David's producer even said, like, yeah, my wife's listening to all this. That's why I'm up to date on what she's saying.

[Emma Vigeland]

And to your point, though, about the Female element too. Well, one, her logo looks like Oprah. She does a book club, right. Like she's trying to look like a daytime person. And the Epstein thing, I just want to return to that. Like, you know, when you have Marjorie Taylor Greene breaking and Boebert, I guess, and the other Republican women, Nancy Mace, that broke with Trump really on this Epstein issue and they talk about the victims, this fits very neatly into like maybe Republican women who feel skeeved out by Trump covering up for this pedophile and maybe being, and likely being implicated.

[Will Sommer]

You know, Candace returns a lot to saying, you know, I don't want my children to live in a world run by pedophiles. That's kind of a refrain throughout the Charlie Kirk stuff where she says, oh, you're so mad at me. Well, sorry, I don't like the pedophile empire or what have you. And so, you know, I think the Epstein stuff is also a big part of this. I love the Joel Berry saying, you know, have your wife watch Ali Beth Stuckey, who is a much more kind of like turning point, you know, sort of controlled or styled influencer.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, do you have a sense of like what the gender makeup is of like a Candace Owens audience versus let's say TP usa?

[Will Sommer]

I think her audience is probably majority women, you know, probably pretty significantly. So, I mean, like I said, it's a lot of celebrity gossip. It's a lot of kind of, you know, I think it's sort of female coded, you know, and then, then occasionally so they'll say, you know, ok, now let's track this Egyptian planes, flights and see if it's tracking Erica Kirk or is it, you know, carrying secret assassin.

[Sam Cedar]

Teams and where is that relative to the others? I mean, do you have a sense of like, specifically like through your reporting, have you come across gender breakdowns for these shows? Because, you know, YouTube is largely dominated by, by male, you know, male, like I guess audiences for politics, political YouTube in particular. Yeah, not all, of course, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Will Sommer]

I think it's fair to say that, you know, the vast majority of sort of right wing YouTube content is definitely aimed at men and presumably has, has a, I think a similar demographic. So Candace is unique in that way too. I mean there are only sort of a handful, Ali Beth Stuckey, you know, a couple other people like this who are really aimed at women, I guess, Brett Cooper, you know, and, and so for, I sort of have to imagine that Candace really has a lot of the sort of conservative women and I think a lot of non Conservative women who are just kind of enjoying the storyline as well in her audience.

[Sam Cedar]

All right, lastly, let me ask you about this. How much of this, like this is subtextually about Nick Fuentes? Because Fuentes was Charlie Kirk's bet noir. It doesn't, you know, and he really downplayed that because I think he was very nervous when Kirk was assassinated that it was one of his people or his followers, I should say. Obviously, that's just my sense, but in the sort of like the interim period following it, we had the Heritage foundation basically go down in flames in many respects because Kevin Roberts went out and said, I'm not going to blacklist Fuentes. We had JD Vance when asked about Fuentes, well, he's got a lot of followers and you've got to be, you know, careful, that type of thing. I mean, it's quite clear they're all afraid of alienating Fuentes base. And Fuentes has been very like, sort of like been on a media push to sort of like normalize himself. He went on to Piers Morgan. It didn't go so well for him there in terms of being normal in any respect. And he's also got to be worried about like, you know, Milo Yannanopoulos going around telling stories about people. You know, Milo is outed. Benny Johnson, it was sort of like a, you know, who knows what Benny Johnson's orientation is. But there wasn't like, there weren't rumors. He went on to say that Charlie Kirk was gay, which, you know, I had not heard that rumor. He's implied that others have secret, you know, sort of like the sexual orientation. How much of this is about Fuentes and this feeling of like we've got to adopt the white, the white supremacist, the out and out white supremacist, Nazi loving guy. But we don't want to, to. They need to be careful about it.

[Will Sommer]

I think Nick Fuentes is, I think there's a lot to what you said here. I mean, I think Nick Fuentes is kind of presenting himself as like a sort of saner fringe media character compared to Candace Owens. He's saying, you know, Candace, your ideas are crazy. You know, he said, if Turning Point, you know, USA can't, can't debunk her ideas. He said, I'll put her in a coffin. You know, I think debate wise, at least in theory. So, you know, he's. I feel like there's this big tumult in right wing media right now and people are really anxious about the rise of Nick Fuentes. But They've seen that you kind of can't challenge him or if you sort of try to engage with him in any way, you know, you can end up like the Heritage Foundation. You're just getting torn apart. And I think people are kind of scared of the groipers, you know, certainly getting their events disrupted in the way that Charlie Kirk once did. So I feel like perhaps they see Candace Owens as a way that they can sort of assert some power and at least they can go after her and kind of try to police the boundaries of what's acceptable.

[Sam Cedar]

It's a fascinating, like, turn of events. And I have a feeling it's not going to be as easy for the right to sort of get distracted by something else. Too many of them are heavily invested in this sort of like pulling on these strings. And, you know, this Charlie Kirk assassins trial or alleged assassins trial could just keep going on. They may keep it closed doors. I don't know how they'll get away with that. Seems like they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. So I imagine, Will, you're going to have a very, very busy next several months, if not more. Thanks so much for coming on and talking to us about this.

[Will Sommer]

Thanks for having me.

[Emma Vigeland]

Thanks, Will.

[Sam Cedar]

All right, folks. Oh, listen, we got something. We got the beanies. Yes, we got the Max left beanies. I think you might be. If you get them today, I think you might. You might get them in time for Christmas over the next.

[Emma Vigeland]

Julie said that the. The latest, if you want to get it by Christmas, is order by Tuesday the. The 16th. I mean, I think. I think for the Max left beanies.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, I think we cannot guarantee, but that's what it looks like. We're going to try and do that. The Max left beanie. What an amazing Christmas gift, ladies and gentlemen.

[Emma Vigeland]

Is that the one you gave to Tim Pool, speaking of. Or was it a different beanie?

[Sam Cedar]

I gave him a different beanie. I did give him majority report beanie I think I gave him. He is not. I don't. Well, he probably wears it when he goes out about town because that way people will like him when he's doing trail. Yeah. Also don't know if it's been updated in the store, but we have the whistles back in stock, so. And we sell this, the whistles at cost and then you get two for four bucks. And the whistles sold out in like 25 minutes last time. So go and buy your whistles now if you don't have them yet. And ice is not in your area. I'm sure they will be. But it's also a good way to just signify to your neighbors that you're there to help them out. You know, if the community gets invaded by these thugs, we will have more to talk about because what's going on in Minnesota is. It's crazy. And the Minnesotans people are getting more and more aggressive in their response to ice as ice keeps moving on because people can see, essentially, I think people have seen more and more of the horror that ICE is perpetrating on people. But also I think it's emboldening people. And God, man, these I. It makes me proud of a lot of people. People I don't know who they are.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yep.

[Sam Cedar]

But so.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, it makes me feel patriotic. Yeah. I mean, that's. That's what makes me feel patriotic.

[Sam Cedar]

Clue pack just on the im said I've received more compliments on my Mr. Beanie than just about anything else. So there you go. Has utility and style. Also, just a reminder, it's your support that makes this show possible. You can become a member. Join themjorityreport.com when you do, you not only get the free show free of commercials, but you get to ims in the fun half. And don't forget, just coffee. Now is the season, ladies and gentlemen, both to get your coffee. Maybe you give it as a gift. You can get the Majority Report blend there at Just Coffee Co. Op. It is a co op in Madison, Wisconsin. They have single origin and blends. But now is the time for you to try it out. 30% off. 30% off. I will repeat, 30% off. You don't even need to use the coupon code. Majority. Go there. Get a five pound bag of the Majority Report blend. Get, get or try like a wide range of stuff. Matt, what's happening on your myriad of Matleck universe shows?

[Matt]

Yeah. Over at The Jacobin Meg YouTube channel where we are closing in on 150,000 subscribers, there's a new live show out this morning, two hours ago, how Republicans Lost their mind. Similar to today's. There's a book by a guy, Paul Heideman, which is called Rogue Elephant how the GOP Went from the party of Business to the party of Chaos, that actually we should actually interview him. It's from Verso and it's about not only how the Republicans have gone crazy and the sort of structural and material reasons for how the business elite are losing control, but also the things we talk about in the primaries generally, which is that it is open for historical Reasons in a way that leads to opportunities such as Zora Momdani can run as a Democrat, and despite a lot of Democrats probably wanting to maybe expel him from the party, they can't. So if you want to see from a leftist perspective, a view of the primaries and the gop, go check out that show this morning.

[Sam Cedar]

All right, folks. Matt. Mlcu.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, yeah, Matt. Like cinematic universe.

[Sam Cedar]

Of course. It really should be M L P U Podcast universe. All right.

[Matt]

We're gonna podcast anymore. It's YouTube shows. It's not available on a podcast.

[Emma Vigeland]

And I just gotta say, I love the. The thumbnails and like the. The. The color scheme, the line. I mean, it just looks good. What you guys are talking about.

[Matt]

We're in our design bag.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. Yeah, completely.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, folks, see you in the fun half. Three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months from now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're going to look back and go like, wow.

[Will Sommer]

What?

[Sam Cedar]

What is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second. Hold on. Hold on for a second. Emma. Welcome to the program. Fun hack. Matt. Boo. Fun hack. What is up, everyone? Fun hack.

[Emma Vigeland]

No.

[Sam Cedar]

McKee, you did it. Fun hack.

[Emma Vigeland]

Let's go, Brandon.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's go, Brandon. Fun hack. Bradley, you want to say hello? Sorry to disappoint everyone. I'm just a random guy. It's all the boys today.

[Will Sommer]

Fundamentally false.

[Emma Vigeland]

No. I'm sorry.

[Sam Cedar]

Women. Stop talking for a second and let me finish.

[Will Sommer]

Where is this coming from?

[Sam Cedar]

Dude? But. Dude, you want to smoke this? 7A. Yes. The zinc.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

US. Is this me?

[Will Sommer]

Is it me?

[Sam Cedar]

It is you. Is this me?

[Matt]

Hello?

[Will Sommer]

It's me.

[Sam Cedar]

I think it is you. Who is you. No sound. Every single freaking day. What's on your mind?

[Emma Vigeland]

Sports.

[Sam Cedar]

We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism. I'm going to go far away. Libertarian.

[Matt]

They're so stupid though.

[Sam Cedar]

Common sense says of course.

[Emma Vigeland]

Gobbledygook.

[Sam Cedar]

We nailed him.

[Emma Vigeland]

So what's 79? 21 challenge.

[Will Sommer]

Matt. I'm positively quivering.

[Sam Cedar]

I believe 96. I want to say 8572-103550-11389, 11.

[Emma Vigeland]

For instance, $3,400. $1,900.

[Sam Cedar]

54. $3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game.

[Emma Vigeland]

Actually. You're make me think less.

[Sam Cedar]

But let me say this. You can call it satire. Sam goes in. Satire.

[Emma Vigeland]

On top of it all, my favorite.

[Sam Cedar]

Part about you is just like every.

[Emma Vigeland]

Day, all day, like, everything you do.

[Sam Cedar]

Without a doubt. Hey, buddy. We see you. All right, folks, folks, folks.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's just the week being weeded out, obviously.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. Sun's out, guns out.

[Will Sommer]

I. I don't know.

[Emma Vigeland]

But you should know.

[Sam Cedar]

People just don't.

[Matt]

Like to entertain ideas anymore.

[Sam Cedar]

I have a question. Who cares?

[Matt]

Mo Chat is enabled, folks.

[Sam Cedar]

I love it.

[Emma Vigeland]

I do love that.

[Sam Cedar]

Gotta jump. Gotta be quick. I gotta jump. I'm losing it, bro. Two o', clock, we're already late, and the guy's being a dick. So screw him. Sent to a gulag.

[Emma Vigeland]

Outrageous.

[Sam Cedar]

Like, what is wrong with you? Love you. Bye. Love you. Bye. Bye.