3548 - GOP Pushes Child Labor Fantasy; Israeli Refusenik Movement Grows w/ Iddo Elam

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Majority Report with Sam Seder Episode 3548 - GOP Pushes Child Labor Fantasy; Israeli Refusenik Movement Grows w/ Iddo Elam Release Date: July 29, 2025

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Introduction and Overview

In episode 3548 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder, host Sam Seder delves into pressing political and social issues both in the United States and internationally. Broadcasting live from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in downtown Brooklyn, the show navigates through a myriad of topics, including the impacts of President Donald Trump's trade policies, escalating tensions in Israel-Palestine, and the growing movement of Israeli conscientious objectors. The episode features an in-depth interview with Ido Alam, a Jewish Israeli who has been imprisoned for refusing military service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

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Trump's Tariffs and Trade Policies

Sam Seder opens the discussion by critiquing President Trump's trade strategies, highlighting that his import taxes are now the highest the U.S. has seen since the 1930s. Seder argues that Trump's touted trade deals lack substance and are merely "vaporware." He emphasizes the regressive nature of tariffs, noting their disproportionate impact on the working class, middle class, and low-income individuals.

• Quote: “If you were going to actually rebate the money, what's happening is the prices go up and then you're having the exact same amount of demand you would have. So it's just basically, you're just subsidizing now inflation. It's insane.”—Sam Seder [06:12]

Seder further discusses Senator Josh Hawley's introduction of a bill to send tariff rebate checks to Americans, labeling it an admission that tariffs function as a tax on the populace.

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Impact on the American Economy and Workers

The conversation transitions to the broader economic repercussions of Trump's tariff policies. Seder projects a looming inflation spike within two to six months due to these tariffs, describing them as compounding sales taxes that will invariably raise consumer prices.

He underscores the regressive nature of these taxes, which primarily burden American taxpayers without delivering on the promises of increased revenues or substantial trade deal benefits.

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Immigration Policies and Their Consequences

Seder shifts focus to the Trump administration's stringent immigration policies, emphasizing the deconstruction of legal immigration statuses for temporary protected status holders from countries like Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Ukraine, and Afghanistan. He illustrates the economic strain this induces, particularly in manufacturing sectors.

• Quote: “The Economic Policy Institute estimated this month 4 million deportations would result in the loss of 3.3 million jobs held by immigrants in the US and 2.6 million US-born employees.”—Sam Seder [15:55]

Seder cites reports from The Guardian detailing the fallout in Michigan and Kentucky, where abrupt job losses and increased workloads have led to unsafe working conditions and heightened stress among remaining employees. He references the American Enterprise Institute's findings that these policies could decrease the U.S. GDP by 0.3 to 0.4%, painting a bleak picture for the American economy.

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Guest Interview: Ido Alam, Israeli Conscientious Objector

The latter half of the episode features a profound interview with Ido Alam, a Jewish Israeli conscientious objector who has been imprisoned for refusing to serve in the IDF. Alam recently concluded a hunger strike and shares his experiences and motivations for taking such a stand.

a. Background and Motivation

Alam describes his involvement with the Misar Vote network for conscientious objectors and the Hadash Party's youth wing, the Young Communist League, from a young age. His activism was galvanized by witnessing the struggles of Palestinian citizens in Israel and the systemic inequalities they face.

• Quote: “I have been active both in the Misar Vote network for conscientious objectors and the Hadash Party,… since the age of 14.”—Iddo Alam [27:30]

b. The Role of the Military in Israeli Society

Alam provides insight into the pervasive influence of the military in Israeli culture, detailing how from kindergarten through adulthood, military presence is a constant in educational settings and public life. He criticizes the normalization of military service and the societal expectation to join the IDF.

• Quote: “When you don't grow in a family like I did, I mean, it's very hard to say, oh, I just don't believe anything that my parents tell me and my school tells me anymore.”—Iddo Alam [34:15]

c. Challenges Faced by Objectors and Support Networks

Alam recounts his personal ordeal, including over a month in military prison and a prolonged litigation process to secure his release. He highlights the psychological and social toll of his refusal, noting the isolation from some peers and family members who disagree with his stance.

• Quote: “Mostly, my close friends at least. I went to an art school. I learned jazz and philosophy. I mean, it's not a normal Israeli experience.”—Iddo Alam [33:05]

d. Current Situation in Israel and the Palestinian Conflict

Alam discusses the intensifying violence in Gaza and the West Bank post-October 7th, emphasizing the complicity of the Israeli army and settlers in perpetuating atrocities against Palestinians. He laments the lack of media coverage and the challenges Palestinian journalists face under occupation.

• Quote: “Settlers are basically just doing whatever they want, being like, basically the, I don't know, the SA of the army.”—Iddo Alam [47:50]

e. Role of Media in Shaping Perceptions

He criticizes Israeli and international media for their biased portrayal of the conflict, asserting that mainstream outlets like Fox News and the BBC are complicit in supporting Israeli governmental narratives while marginalizing Palestinian suffering.

• Quote: “They have to be anti-Semitic and against us. And that's most people get that news.”—Iddo Alam [54:14]

f. Call to Action for Listeners

Alam urges listeners to pressure their representatives to withhold aid from the Israeli government and to support Palestinian communities through donations and activism. He underscores the importance of international pressure in effecting change within Israel.

• Quote: “Pressuring people to say that they recognize Palestine, say that they recognize it's a genocide or at least starvation or a massacre. Being against it really helps the people in the US that are shouting at officials are really inspirational because that in the end, making the official's life more difficult will bring change.”—Iddo Alam [60:00]

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Conclusion

Episode 3548 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder offers a comprehensive analysis of the detrimental effects of Trump's trade and immigration policies on the American economy and workers. Simultaneously, it sheds light on the harrowing realities faced by Palestinian citizens in Israel, as articulated by Ido Alam. Alam's firsthand account underscores the urgent need for global awareness and activism to address human rights violations and systemic injustices perpetuated by state policies.

Listeners are encouraged to engage in activism, support humanitarian efforts, and hold their political representatives accountable to foster meaningful change both domestically and internationally.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Sam Seder [06:12]:

  “If you were going to actually rebate the money, what's happening is the prices go up and then you're having the exact same amount of demand you would have. So it's just basically, you're just subsidizing now inflation. It's insane.”

• Sam Seder [15:55]:

  “The Economic Policy Institute estimated this month 4 million deportations would result in the loss of 3.3 million jobs held by immigrants in the US and 2.6 million US-born employees.”

• Iddo Alam [27:30]:

  “I have been active both in the Misar Vote network for conscientious objectors and the Hadash Party,… since the age of 14.”

• Iddo Alam [34:15]:

  “When you don't grow in a family like I did, I mean, it's very hard to say, oh, I just don't believe anything that my parents tell me and my school tells me anymore.”

• Iddo Alam [47:50]:

  “Settlers are basically just doing whatever they want, being like, basically the, I don't know, the SA of the army.”

• Iddo Alam [54:14]:

  “They have to be anti-Semitic and against us. And that's most people get that news.”

• Iddo Alam [60:00]:

  “Pressuring people to say that they recognize Palestine, say that they recognize it's a genocide or at least starvation or a massacre. Being against it really helps the people in the US that are shouting at officials are really inspirational because that in the end, making the official's life more difficult will bring change.”

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Additional Resources

Listeners interested in supporting the causes discussed can reach out to organizations working towards Palestinian rights and humanitarian relief. Engaging with political representatives to advocate for ethical foreign policies and fair trade practices is also encouraged.

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Note: This summary is based on the provided transcript excerpt up to the 69:43 minute mark of the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Emma Vigeland]

You are listening to a free version of the Majority Report. Support this [e-mail] and get an extra hour of content daily.

[Sam Seder]

It is Tuesday, July 29, 2025. My name is Sam Seder. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Ido Alam, Jewish Israeli conscientious objector who is imprisoned this year for refusing to serve in the IDF. Meanwhile, Trump's import taxes are now the highest since 1930 and his so called trade deals are all vaporware. There doesn't seem to be anything.

[Emma Vigeland]

Don't tell him that.

[Sam Seder]

Well, I'm still imposing taxes on everybody, so. Meanwhile, those very same import taxes or tariffs are to raise the cost of generic medicines and more. Meanwhile, Dick Durbin demands recordings of the Maxwell DOJ meetings as Trump refuses to rule out a pardon. And as Benjamin Netanyahu floats annexation plan to his government, Palestinians starve. And 32%, according to Gallup, of Americans, only 32% of Americans support Israel's assault on Gaza. Only 8% of Dems support this humanitarian crime against human humanity.

[Emma Vigeland]

Tell that to elected Democrats.

[Sam Seder]

They're starting to hear, I think very, very, very slowly.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, way too late.

[Sam Seder]

Meanwhile, Christian Smalls was beaten and detained along with 20 activists aboard a freedom flotilla boat that was attempting to break through the Israeli blockade of Gaza. In New York City, four dead in a shooting. The gunman from Nevada came from Nevada with weapons. This as Trump slash federal funding for gun violence prevention. And now there's a third whistleblower who has emerged claiming that email Bovey lied to the Senate about his desire to ignore the courts. Trump regime now says that federal workers can be subject to religious proselyzation by their managers at work. And Trump's free plane from Qatar turns out it's going to cost taxpayers almost a billion dollars to retrofit. And then he gets to keep it when he leaves office. Judge temporarily halts Trump's Medicaid, cuts to Planned Parenthood. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks so much for joining us. It is Tuesday.

[Emma Vigeland]

New news day Tuesday.

[Sam Seder]

Tuesday, news day Tuesday, Tuesday, news day Tuesday. Yeah, you could do it either way. We decided that. Right, Brian? It's Brian's fault because he screwed me up.

[Emma Vigeland]

How did Brian.

[Sam Seder]

Sorry, boss. He did. He really did. It was his fault, right? Oh, yes, it's 100% my fault.

[Emma Vigeland]

Typical. Typical passing off blame.

[Sam Seder]

Well, as you'll see later people who are educated in the state of Georgia have a tough time with details in terms of my neurological capacity. Thanks for joining us. Obviously, a lot in the news, the we're just getting sort of like a, a look now at the supposed trade deal that Donald Trump forged with the eu. And I should just tell you there's a couple of things like, I mean, you have to really go into it too deeply other than to say that a, I'll just read a couple of the headlines from this. Drug prices likely to rise with tariffs on EU EU admits it can't guarantee the $600 billion promise to Trump. In fact, the $600 billion they're supposed to invest in the United States, they're anticipating being able to do about 2% of that. EU's pledge for $250 billion of U.S. energy imports is delusional. These are just the headlines. I mean, the bottom line is none of this stuff is real. All he is is basically said, well, I'm going to do 50% or 30% tariffs on August 1st. And now all it is is he's going to do 15% tariffs. And for those who say, okay, well this is going to raise money for the United States, understand this is a tax and it's a regressive tax. I am all in favor of raising taxes, but we should be doing this on wealthy people, not working class, not middle class, not low income people. And that's who it hits the most. And if you want proof that it's a tax on Americans, that it's not going to be absorbed by some, you know, mystery third party. Senator Josh Hawley introduces a bill to send tariff rebate checks to Americans.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'm sure that'll work out just as well as his efforts to get the Trump administration not to gut Medicaid.

[Sam Seder]

Oh, there's no doubt. And he's supposedly putting a bill in to refund to re provide funds for Medicaid. That's not going to happen. Sure, and this bill won't go anywhere either. But the bottom line is it is a explicit admission that we need a rebate. In other words, the money is coming from American taxpayers. That's the way you rebate them. You don't get a rebate for something you haven't paid for. That just ends up being some type of stimulus check. But it's a rebate check because US Citizens are going to be paying for it. And to be clear, not only we're going to have inflation from these import taxes, but if you were to actually rebate the money. What's happening is the prices go up and then you're having the exact same amount of demand you would have. So it's just basically, you're just subsidizing now inflation. It's insane. But that's where we're at at this point. And I would imagine in two to six months, we're going to start to feel the inflation from these tariffs. Although, you know, Taco Tuesday, who knows what Trump is going to do tomorrow. With that said, the one thing that we do know the Trump administration is doing, it is criminalizing and really.

[Ido Alam]

I.

[Sam Seder]

Don'T know how to say this. Undocumenting, unlegalizing. Literally hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants, people who have been on temporary protected status. There are stories all over here about what happens when literally hundreds of thousands of Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans, Venezuelans, I think we've seen it with some Ukrainians and Afghanis. They are on various programs. They are legal immigrants. They are documented immigrants. And they're basically being undocumented by the administration. And it is causing economic stress because these people have all been working, in some instances, 5, 10, 15, 20 years in factories, in bakeries, wherever it is, and now all of a sudden, they're gone. But the folks at Fox and Friends have a new idea on how to deal with this. Paying people not to work. And when you stop paying people not to work, they have to go out and get jobs. And the first jobs they go out and get are these wonderful, rewarding jobs like picking blueberries. I grew up pulling tobacco. There are wonderful jobs in farming, in construction, all of this that has sort of been handed over to largely illegal aliens allowed into the country to do all this cheap labor. Maybe you pay a little bit more for blueberries to actually have Americans picking the blueberries, but that's wonderful. Allow children to do it as summer jobs. The idea that your government, that your precious government doesn't allow children to work summer jobs in blueberry fields is just mind blowing. Well, it's very, it's very difficult work, by the way. And it's fine. I'm totally down with everything that you're saying.

[Emma Vigeland]

But the point is, I'm not a libertarian for late.

[Sam Seder]

For Americans who want to do these jobs. If it costs more, I'm okay with subsidizing that labor because then I think we get more fruits and vegetables. Should reward good things and punish bad things. Do you agree with. This is okay. This is just unbelievable. First off, is it that these immigrants are keeping Americans from getting Jobs? Or is it that immigrants are keeping children from getting jobs? Wonderful jobs. Wonderful jobs. Throwing hot rivets on a skyscraper. Incidentally, the amount of times that you could go out and pick blueberries, it is both a regional thing. I don't know. It's mostly, you need to have more colder climates. I think for, for blueberries, it's maybe a, I want to say four week season, five week season. I mean, the size of these factory, the, the farms that you would need to have blueberry picking happening every day. So the kids just come out like once or twice a week. Like. This is absurd.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, this is absurd. We've heard this argument a few times. Right. When they're there in the, in the context of rolling back certain child labor protections like paperwork requirements. We covered this two or three years ago when Sarah Huckabee Sanders as governor in Arkansas rolled back paperwork requirements for employers when they had child laborers. And why is that? It's because they don't want documentation of the fact that they are employing undocumented children. And then we hear reports of children working at 7am at some meat processing plant and dying because they get stuck into them in machinery. That also happened within the past few years. And those are undocumented kids. Those are the people that are working those jobs.

[Sam Seder]

I got news for Charlie Herd too. Um, kids can go work picking blueberries. Like if you're a kid and you want to go pick blueberries and there is a place for you to go pick blueberries after school or over the course of the summer. Kids can get summer jobs. They can now, now maybe he's talking like six year olds or eight years, like very young children. But if you're over the age of 14, I think it is in most states, in some places 13, you can go get a summer job picking blueberries. The idea. And first of all, I also don't believe he grew up shucking tobacco, whatever it is he claims to do. The guy's dad was a Reader's Digest editor. Maybe his grandpa had a farm and he got to go out there and occasionally pull tobacco. But I don't get the feeling that this guy's hands were all calloused for those two months.

[Emma Vigeland]

And aren't they talking about, via Trump's executive order, basically throwing unhoused people into prison labor camps to do this kind of work. But it doesn't necessarily fit this like 1950s trad wife and young blonde children with blue eyed picking blueberries in the field aesthetic that Fox News is trying to propagate here. We have very low levels of unemployment right now, but that's in part because we have deep problems with underemployment. And folks who are working multiple jobs but don't aren't able to actually sustain a living for themselves. And so the jobs that he's talking about, this mythical thing, that this would just be taken by kids on summer break, I mean, it's silly. It's silly. It's what like a very wealthy person imagines like labor actually looks like in this country.

[Sam Seder]

And I also do appreciate that they are recognizing it's going to be inflationary to subsidize. Also going to be inflationary. Now Guardian has a report that they've got stories in Michigan, Kentucky about the impact of a lot of the rescissions on temporary protected status and parolees. At a GE appliance plant in Louisville, Kentucky, more than 125 workers were abruptly forced out of their jobs in the spring due to programs canceled as part of Trump's immigration crackdown. This, according to an employee. GE Appliances makes home appliances, including refrigerators, microwave, dishwashers in three different buildings on a couple of different shifts. Stewards reported they lost production, so they weren't able to make all the products supposed to make. That, of course, ripples through the economy. At a Kraft Heinz plant in Holland, Michigan, workers are said to have been mandated to work overtime. The firm is one of the largest food beverage companies in the world, behind brands Philadelphia Cream Cheese and Jello Desserts. We've had people there for 20 years and all of a sudden they get notification, their immigration authorization is revoked. This is a maintenance mechanic of 13 years, president of the RWDSU local and they can't be there anymore. That just puts a strain on everybody. The lack of people on the lines, their employees running two machines should be one person per machine. Managers and supervisors are all stressed out canceling vacations for people because they don't have enough people to run the machines. Torres has been working 12 to 14 hour days, he said, part of a first shift, all of a second shift and part of a third shift. I'm tired and you catch people falling asleep on the line and it's a big safety issue. The Economic Policy Institute estimated this month 4 million deportations would result in the loss of 3.3 million jobs held by immigrants in the US and 2.6 million US born employees. Because if you don't have enough people to run a factory, you shut the factory down. American Enterprise Institute conservative think tank said immigration policies will lead to a negative net migration the US and as a result in a decrease in the US gross domestic product between 0.3 and 0.4%. So this is gonna be bad for the economy. It's gonna be bad. And there's not gonna be this sort of sudden wave of where we get down to zero employment, that we need to rely on kids to pick blueberries. You'll support a family on your blueberry picking job.

[Emma Vigeland]

And we also started the show with the looming tariffs and the impact that they're going to have, which functions basically as a compounding sales tax, these 15% kind of baseline tariffs. So prices are going to continue to go up. I at least admire Donald Trump's consistency of trying to speedrun us into a second Great Depression, rolling back of child labor laws in the conservative movement and then bringing back insane tariff policies. Looks like it really is making us 19, what, 28, 19, 30 again.

[Sam Seder]

We're close to that. We'll see in a moment. We're going to be talking to Ido Alam. He is a Jewish Israeli conscientious objector who was imprisoned this year for refusing military service. A couple of words from our sponsors. Going online without ExpressVPN is like leaving your laptop unattended at the coffee shop while you run to the bathroom. Most of the time you're probably fine, but what if one day you come out of the bathroom, your laptop is gone? Well, your data is valuable. Hackers can make serious money selling personal info on the dark web. And it doesn't take much technical knowledge to hack someone smart. 12 year old could do it. So what can you do to protect yourself? Well, my, actually, my literally, my 12 year old is always reminding me, do you have your VPN on? And I say yes, I do. Express VPN stops hackers from stealing your data by creating a secure encrypted tunnel between your device and the Internet. Visit expressvpn.com majority. 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So, you know, I just want folks to know that because I imagine you're feeling not at 100%. But why don't you start by telling us what that hunger strike was about?

[Ido Alam]

Sure. Then this hunger strike was started on Sunday by the high follow up committee for Arab Citizens of Israel. It's basically a committee that under it there's all the Arab parties and all the Arab local leadership and they are trying to work together to have a better future for Palestinian citizens of Israel because they are second class here. In an unprecedented move, they actually decided to do the hunger strike in Jaffa, just southern of Tel Aviv, and invite Jews to join them so we can do this whole thing together. And what we saw is tens of people, dozens of people, Jews and Palestinians together for three days in Jaffa, hunger striking, talking with each other and also now reading the new genocide report by Physicians for Human Rights. And it just ended today, a few hours ago with a protest in front of the American Embassy that I did not join because I'm joining the EU now.

[Sam Seder]

Well, we appreciate that very much. Tell us a little bit. Let's start with this. I don't know if folks in this country appreciate how deeply ingrained joining the military in Israel is. I mean, this is something that as a small child you are already sort of on some level there's like this sort of anticipation of joining the military. Walk us through that a little bit. So I want people to understand the, you know, what you've done and continue to do, aside from just going to prison is very rare in Israeli society and frankly takes a lot of courage. But walk us through what that sort of like how ingrained being a member of the military is in Israeli culture.

[Ido Alam]

Sure. Then I would start by saying that I come from what we call a leftist family. So for me at home at least it wasn't so ingrained. But talking, for example, about the education system from kindergarten till like, you know, 12th grade, you have soldiers visiting you in class, talking about, you know, helping you with tests to do, like different units in the army, you have always, you have a soldier, at least one in your school. Since the 7th of October, obviously it's even worse. Every year you have Remembrance Day for the dead soldiers from your school, which you are obligated to come to. You have to stand for like two minutes in remembrance. You have to stand for the national anthem. They bring soldiers that were in your school to talk with you and to like, you know, grieve with you. Which for me seemed very like usual as a child. My brother, my older brother also went to the army. I mean, he was kind of in a less liberal environment and a less like leftist environment. So he kind of just like went with all of his friends. That for me, I mean, it means that I come home for a person with uniform and a gun, which for me at the age of 15 should tell me that I should do the same. Also everywhere, I mean in your bus, on the street, in your coffee shop, you see guns, uniforms. It's very much normalized. Once again, since the 7th of October, it's even worse because now the interior minister of Benkvir gave a ton of pistols to random civilians. But it's basically like not going to the army here is basically doing like the worst scene out of all of them. Like every conversation with somebody that I tell them that I'm 18, they ask what I do in the army. Every conversation with any job interview that I ever had asked, oh, are you going to the army? What are you going to do in the army? It's basically the normal conversation for anybody around the age of the army. And once again, a lot of my friends, childhood friends, went to the IDF because that's what is expected of them.

[Emma Vigeland]

Two follow up questions to that, that they're somewhat related, your Arab Israeli classmates or Palestinian Israeli classmates, I should say the minority in Israel proper. Is it the same in terms of their treatment with pushing them into IDF service or how is that approach with the minority of those classmates and two how have your classmates or fellow teenagers on a whole responded to you and your other comrades taking this action of civil disobedience and going to jail because you refused to serve?

[Ido Alam]

So I would start by saying that in my grade at my school, there were zero Palestinians. I mean, Israel is a very segregated country. I would say that, like, from both sides. Even though I live in Tel Aviv, I went to a school in central Tel Aviv. I did not know of any Palestinian students. Palestinians are not obligated to go to the army. That was decided a very, very long time ago. Now all the time there's like campaigns from the right to basically say who doesn't serve, doesn't vote. That comes both from the opposition parties on the right and the coalition of Benjamin Netanyahu. So they are not obligated to serve, but they are pushed to be more patriotic and do national service, which is a year or a few years volunteering some way to help the country, basically. And there's a lot of money being dropped on, like, campaigns for the Arab Palestinians in Israel to do national service, which we object to, of course. My classmates, which, like I said, all of them are Jewish, luckily, very much supported me. Most of them my close friends at least. I went to an art school. I learned jazz and philosophy. I mean, it's not a normal Israeli experience. I know many refuseniks that lost contact with people, even family. And I would say that even for me. I mean, some people that I was affiliated with have stopped talking to me because they do not agree with this decision. In my opinion, if they do not agree with me doing whatever I want, then they shouldn't be affiliated with me. But most of my classmates and most of my close family did support me. My parents and my brother also. But some more distant family and more distant friends have stopped talking to me, at least on this issue, because it's so anti mainstream here.

[Sam Seder]

How long did you, how long were you imprisoned for? And just walk us up to how you went about filing for the conscientious objector status or refused. I don't know what you, what the technical term is there.

[Ido Alam]

So I was in prison for a bit over a month, and then I had two more months in which I was released. But I was in a process of litigation with the army, basically trying to convince them that I should be released and that I'm too much of a burden for them. So overall, like, even after prison, I had to come a dozen times to the enlistment base, get yelled at, sleep there, stay there full days, almost go back to them, to prison because they wanted to threaten me, basically. But in general, in the actual military prison, I was only a month. That is different for every other reasoning. I mean, I did not apply for a conscientious objector like release because in Israel it's kind of like bs. I don't know if I can curse on this show, but basically just international law forces the Israeli army to have some kind of conscientious board that deems people like pacifists. But you have to prove that you are not political and you're pacifist in general. Basically you're not against the genocide of the Palestinian people.

[Sam Seder]

You're not against.

[Ido Alam]

You are against any and all violence and cannot take it on yourself, even though you don't care about the Palestinian people. And who decides that is like five military officers that obviously catch you lying very easily if you try to. So I would say that, like, going to that board and having a military combat profile, as we call it, is very hard. In the end, I was released after like months of giving them lawyer letters, letters from friends and family, like psychiatrists. And in general, they just did not want to accept it until after a few tries in which they told me every time, no, you shouldn't list, they decided that I'm too much of a burden. I mean, the psychiatrist I met in the army literally told me, you shouldn't be released. People in the army are in your conditions also, but I don't have time for you and I don't care for you, so just go before I decide otherwise. That's basically exactly what he told me.

[Sam Seder]

And so the psychiatrist was, was basically arguing the army is full of people who feel that what's going on, it's genocide, but we don't have the resources to deal with you. Making us think about it was basically.

[Ido Alam]

Saying the army is full of people who are mentally not okay with serving or not okay with committing these crimes. But me personally, because I was such, like, politically active, he just told me, like, go to hell, basically.

[Sam Seder]

How much of your decision to fight service in the IDF was a function specifically of what's going on since, I mean, you know, and I imagine that's hard to disaggregate. But how, how deep are your ideological, like, where, like, is it a function? How much of it is a contextual question for you? How much of it is a broader question of, of Palestinians, of the Zionism and the entire project? Walk us through that.

[Ido Alam]

Sure. So I would start by saying that I decided to refuse before October 7th. I have been active both in the Misar Vote network for conscientious objectors and the Hadash Party, which you talked with Ofer Kassif from in the past, and its youth, which is the Young Communist League. So I was active in all of these spaces since the age of 14. And back then I started being political because Netanyahu had corruption cases that were brewing up and there was a big protests and demonstrations against it and I met some anti occupation folks there. And then I decided to join these circles. I would say that like for me only at the age of 16, I actually finally decided to refuse and not just not go to the army, because there's many ways to lie your way out of the army or basically get an exemption somehow. At the age of 16 I went to this thing called the first draft, the first call. It's a day of tests and like psychiatric evaluations and like medical tests at the army enlistment base that is forced on you at the age of 16. Its purpose is to decide which units fit for you, if you're smart in computers, if whatever, not. They also give you a personal interview where this soldier basically asks, oh, what do you want to do in the army? I told her I don't want to do army, because I have already decided that. And then she kind of was very much confused and started asking, well, what if we force you to go to the army and what if we put you in prison? And I basically just told her I would still not go to the army because even at the age of 16, even two years into activism, I have already met Palestinians from the west bank living under occupation. I met Palestinian citizens of Israel living as second class citizens, even though they have the same ideas and ideology that I have, they come from the same backgrounds. Sometime I basically decided that the problem is very much rooted in all of society, in the occupation, and not just in something specific that I don't want to do. It's not that I don't want to be a soldier in the west bank, as some people say. I don't want to be a part of the system at all. So ever since the age of 16 to 18, I was kind of just waiting for the date to come, kind of just expecting sometimes in the future to go to prison and to have refused. 7th of October obviously was a big turning point, I would say, because it was very difficult to know how refusing will be after the 7th of October because the conditions harshened and they wanted to punish, refuse, nix. And also all of society kind of turned really fascistic and really militaristic. So, like, what's the purpose of refusing? We kind of. I mean, for me, a big reason of refusing is talking with young people, talking with before army age people and trying to convince them there's other routes because the media here doesn't show that. And also, like, yeah, you just do not hear of that. So if I couldn't do that, then I would have to rethink refusing.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, can you? You mentioned the media, and I'm just so amazed that at such a young age you came to so much of this on your own, despite so much repression of information from within Israel that we see from the outside. You know, you see these protests in Tel Aviv even prior to October 7th against Netanyahu's corruption. You see them now about bringing the hostages home, but now increasingly about focusing on the genocide of the Palestinians. But then you see poll numbers like, say that come out of the University of Jerusalem, and you see like overwhelming support for Trump's ethnic cleansing plan of Gaza. And it seems to me that there's a pretty substantial divide between, say, Israelis in Tel Aviv or in cities versus the rest of the country, which is still incredibly radicalized. Although, I mean, give me your perspective. What is the environment like there still, almost two years into the genocide?

[Ido Alam]

I would say that, like, analyzing Israeli society is extremely difficult and confusing because on the one hand, I think you have a majority of Jews that want to replace Netanyahu, but almost like none of them want to replace Netanyahu because he's a war criminal and genocidal dictator. Basically, most people just see his corruption cases, see the judicial reform that he was trying to pass. So it's very difficult. Like on the one hand, you go out protesting against the occupation, against genocide, in an anti war protest in Tel Aviv, but then the anti war people attack you and yell at you and tell you to get the hell out of the protest because they do not agree with being against the occupation. So both the opposition and the coalition in Israel is basically the same, like talking about genocide and the occupation. I mean, Netanyahu's replacements do not want to do anything about it. We work, I think in this space of people that we're trying to speak with, people that even though they might still believe in the Israeli dream and still believe that the army is moral and still believe that, you know, maybe we should give Palestinians independence, but not now. All of these words that we hear, maybe they will agree with us at least that managing what we call in Israel, managing the conflict, or basically just trying to like Backlog, a Palestinian state, even though technically we are for it, doesn't work. And that was proven, I think, on the 7th of October, because you cannot keep people under occupation and apartheid and just expect them to stay silent and take it like it is. So I think there is a growing movement in Israel to be against this war and against the horrible suffering that we are seeing in Gaza. But it's still in the process of growing. We still see very much the indoctrination from a young age of people. Because when you don't grow in a family like I did, I mean, it's very hard to say, oh, I just don't believe anything that my parents tell me and my school tells me anymore. And talking about media, for example, I mean the media does not talk about Gaza. Only now, like two journalists that I saw in mainstream media started saying the word starvation. They are still not saying that we should stop completely everything, just saying that the starvation is not okay. And there is a big consensus that we should make a deal with Hamas and release the hostages and then continue fighting and then just completely ruin the whole deal and just bombing, continue bombing. Obviously that won't work. And the only people that you see here now talking about the genocide is Hart's newspaper and like 972 magazine, which are doing like really amazing work.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

So if I hear you correctly, there is an increasing sort of anti war sentiment, but that the, the notion of Palestinian rights, whether that comes in the form of ending, from the outsider's perspective, you're living in a one state already. It's just one where there is apartheid in varying degrees of apartheid, frankly, and varying degrees of violence associated with that, apartheid. So if I hear you correctly, the idea of addressing those fundamental issues still remains more or less flatlined in terms of people's understanding. It's really more to the extent that there is any movement, it is more about ending the immediate suffering of Palestinians or just the conflict more broadly. What about the West Bank? Like, what is the. You know, we've spoken a couple of times with Jasper Nathaniel, who's been over there reporting. I think he's gonna go back soon. And he told me that he was surprised at how little physical distance there was between Tel Aviv and the West Bank. But in terms of knowledge, in terms of awareness, he was shocked. The lack of awareness as to what was going on in the west bank, seemingly. Is that your experience that are, that, that your, your, your friends or your extended friends or your contemporaries have no idea what's going on just literally miles away.

[Ido Alam]

I would say that, I mean, about the knowledge and distance thing. I mean, Gaza is one hour away from Tel Aviv. I mean, right, he was just there in Jaffa. I mean, a lot of the people in Gaza are the refugees from Jaffa and it takes very much, very little time to reach from Jaffa to Gaza. Then about knowledge, I mean, you do see two years into this genocide, the violence in the west bank is ramping up. I mean, just yesterday, Ode Kathleen was just murdered in broad daylight with a video of his murder and the face of his murderer. And today his murderer was released on house arrest. The reality is insane. I mean, settlers are basically just doing whatever they want, being like, basically the, I don't know, the SA of the army. And I do see more Israelis that do not come from very right wing places, but never actually know anything about occupation, starting to realize that the settler issue is their issue also because they do not want, you know, this like Third Temple idea that we need to exterminate the Palestinians and build a religious state. And I think many people are starting to realize that the violence is daily, the violence is supported by the state and the army and they are against it, but still it's very small amounts of people. I mean, once again, I mean, the mainstream media here is basically doing its job as propagandists and just not showing us anything. If they show us anything, then it's deemed like, oh yeah, this settler killed this Palestinian and we still don't know why and we still are investigating it. And then they never actually say why or talk with the Palestinians that were in this story. But it's our job. I mean, that's basically everything that we are trying to do. I mean, I cannot stop the occupation, but I can convince people around me and people in my city and people in the streets that the occupation is bad. And I can try and talk with people. The west bank is basically just a part of Israel. I mean, I can go freely into the west bank, out of the west bank with no searches or anything, while Palestinians are stuck in this, basically this ghetto that is getting tinier and tinier every time that a village has to evacuate from settler violence. Many of our friends are going to do protective presence in the west bank and try to support families just in a week or so. We are also having like a fundraising event in Israel for families because the state there is very much like dire. And they would say that the army is not only not doing its job by the book, because the book tells them to deal with the settlers also, but they are Just settlers at this point. All of the units in the west bank are just filled with the settlers themselves. And you cannot say who is a soldier and who is a settler. We're trying to make more people knowledge like know about it. And once again, some brave journalists are on the ground filming it and posting it. And it helps a lot. But at the end of the day, I mean, a Palestinian film itself, like Basel, Adra or Ode that was killed, can just be killed broad daylight and nothing will happen. So I would say that being a Palestinian journalist now, which is one of the most important jobs on earth, is just a death wish under the occupation because they are trying to eradicate everybody that is reporting from there.

[Emma Vigeland]

And just so if people don't know the name that is being said there, that is one of the folks that worked on the Oscar winning film no Other Land. And if people want, they can look up the, the footage of the Israeli settler whose face is completely, you can see who this person is clearly with one of those pistols it looks like that you're describing, you know, that is being basically handed out by the Israeli government to some of these settlers. What is your impression of how Israelis are responding to the kind of growing clothes, global outrage? It's not reflected right now by our government and their actions. But a poll just came out this morning from Gallup which is, you know, probably our most reputable poll showing that only 8% of Democrats approve right now of Israel's military action in Gaza. And I had seen a poll maybe like a month or two ago that showed that half of Israelis think Fox News is biased in favor of the Palestinians. And something close to 70% of them think that BBC and CNN in the United States are biased in favor of the Palestinians. Are those numbers accurate in terms of reflecting that warped perspective? Because we also have this story that BBC was censoring in part, a story that was critical of Israel just two weeks ago.

[Ido Alam]

I would start by saying 100% of Israelis that know of the majority report probably deem you as anti Semites who hate Israel in all of their just by your pure anti Semitic hearts.

[Sam Seder]

I like to think it's 99.9%. Sure.

[Ido Alam]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

Okay. Yes.

[Ido Alam]

I sent this live to a few friends and they are did join us.

[Sam Seder]

All right, I'm glad to hear that.

[Ido Alam]

But about Fox News and the BBC, once again, that's the job of our media and our news here. Because my reels on Instagram, for example, are filled with videos that, you know, channel 12 and 11 and 13, which are the biggest Channels here, post of, oh, this Israeli was attacked in Europe just because he was a Jew. And this Israeli was attacked and BBC said the word starvation, or this guy on BBC said the word genocide. So they have to be anti Semitic and against us. And that's most people get that news. Nobody actually watches here, CNN or something. So even though all of these companies are obviously pro Israel and very much leaning towards Israel, that doesn't matter if you catch them in one, like, bad reputation story about Zionism or Israel or the Jewish people or whatever you want to call it. But now you're seeing a lot of Israelis viewing random conspiracy theories that like, it's basically the reverse of like the Nazi conspiracy theories that like, all the Jews control the media. So Israelis, a lot of them think that the Palestinian lobby and the Democrats and all the anti Semites control journalists. I would say that international pressure helps a lot. In the end of the day now with Macron deciding to recognize Palestine, maybe, maybe Stirmer, even though he's kind of, you know, all over the place. In the end of the day when all countries besides the US will recognize Palestine, Israelis will have. A lot of Israelis will see that it's not anti Semitism. It's basically all the world agrees that Netanyahu and the Israeli government is just doing horrible crimes that cannot be supported anymore. It's kind of weird to try and get support from these Western imperialist nations that do not align with my politics at all. But it helps a ton. I mean, to the American audience watching, I would just say Trump is the only guy that can change Bibi's course. If Trump tells Bibi enough times that he needs to stop this, I do think that something will change because Macron and Keir Starmer and everybody else in Europe is just anti Semitic in the eyes of the Israeli state. So, yeah, I mean, it's very difficult. But at the same time, like I said, I mean, we are doing some work in trying to raise the voice of the Palestinian people in Gaza and the west bank standing every week with pictures of dead Palestinian children from Gaza in the street, silently in a vigil. We are getting more and more nods of appreciation and hellos and people joining us. Something that started a few dozen people is now hundreds of people standing with those pictures. You See Now Israeli NGOs saying it's a genocide for the first time. Even if all of those NGOs already agreed on it, at least they released a thorough report on it that Israelis can read in their language. At a certain point, they cannot call all Jewish people in the US and all leftist Jews in Israel anti Semitic because they do not want to be a part of it. And we do see also the refusement network grow. I mean, this like two days from now, two more people will enter jail, enter prison. In August, another refusenik is going to enter prison. This is already, I would say, closing in on 20 people since 7th of October, which is not a lot, but it's more than usual, I would say. At the same time you see a lot of reservists now saying, we went to Gaza, we did horrible crimes, we cannot bear with it. A lot of them are killing themselves because the state does not help them. And that really, I think will be a major part of the thing that shapes Israelis minds. Because when their children will kill themselves because they killed Palestinian children in Gaza and saw dead bodies littered in the street and so dismembered babies, that would change the mind of the Israeli people. Because a person cannot bear when a person, a loved one is saying, I cannot do this and this is not okay.

[Emma Vigeland]

And just really quickly, one follow up on that point in terms of the. Oh, shoot, I'm totally blanked on it. I'm sorry, we could just wrap up there. I had something I wanted to ask you, but then I totally forgot. Apologies. All right, Sam, you can wrap up.

[Sam Seder]

Well, you know, I mean, I just got to tell you, it's, you know, it's impressive to talk to you. You really put your body literally on the line here in this. Both just coming off of a hunger strike, but also putting yourself in prison and whatnot and really appreciate the work you're doing. If there, I mean, you sort of alluded to it, but if there's like specific things that you feel folks in this country can do to help influence, you know, from here, it's very difficult to see how we can influence things. Donald Trump is also, we may be considered, you know, may be considered anti Semitic or a self hating Jew. By 99, 0.9% of the people watching in Israel with Trump fans, I'm also not terribly popular. But from your perspective, like what can we do that is helpful in the way that you're trying to affect change there?

[Ido Alam]

So two things I would say, first of all, like I said, pressure your officials and representatives to stay away from supporting and giving aid to our government. I mean, our government can only do what it does because it gets this aid. It's a bit shameful to see some of your more leftist representatives still hold for some reason the idea that it's defensive Aid that helps a lot. Pressuring people to not accept money from the Israeli lobby. Pressuring people to say that they recognize Palestine, say that they recognize it's a genocide or at least starvation or a massacre. Being against it really helps the people in the US that are shouting at officials are really inspirational because that in the end, making the official's life more difficult will bring change. Besides that and besides pressuring people, support us in whatever way you see fit. I mean, if you come to Palestine, then volunteer with Palestinian communities in the West Bank. If you do not come, you can donate both to Gaza relief funds, west bank relief funds, and also to our. To our own activism, which we do not accept any money for our own good. We just need things to protest and always collaborate with us, talk with us. We would love to come talk with whoever wants to and extend the message to them.

[Sam Seder]

We hope to have you back on EDO Aluminum.

[Emma Vigeland]

Thank you so much.

[Sam Seder]

Maybe we can get. If there's any links that you think might be helpful for people to have shoot, shoot me an email and we'll put those up. But again, thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate the work you're doing. Thank you for telling us about it.

[Ido Alam]

Thank you so much.

[Emma Vigeland]

Thank you.

[Sam Seder]

All right, folks.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'll remember that question in like five minutes. God damn it.

[Sam Seder]

That's all right. Well.

[Emma Vigeland]

It was a great place to stop. And he needs to rest.

[Sam Seder]

Yes. I mean, literally just coming off of a hunger strike. Yeah. I'll just say we take votes for best of, but even if nobody votes for that, I'll be putting that in the best of for Christmas.

[Emma Vigeland]

We need to. I mean, I just, I don't even.

[Sam Seder]

It's.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's difficult for me to understand as someone who's never been to Israel or. And definitely never grew up there, but the amount of pressure, indoctrination, social conditioning, propaganda that as a young person you have to overcome, I mean, it's reflected in the poll numbers. It just speaks to the bravery of what he and his other activists are doing there in Israel because they. There's still a very significant minority. But it's just so. It gives me hope for sure.

[Sam Seder]

Folks, we're going to head into the fun half. You can support this show by becoming a [e-mail] when you do, you not only get the free show, free of commercials, you also get the fun half. Join the majorityreport.com also just coffee. They sell fair trade coffee. They are a co op. They work with their farmers, whether they're In Chiapas or western Africa and eastern Africa. I'm not sure exactly where their farmers are in Africa and the African continent, but nevertheless, I know I've been up there in Wisconsin years ago and they were telling me it was a tough year for some folks in Chiapas and they work with those farmers because they, they started their business as a co op to support farmers, particularly in choppy Chiapas. That's where it, it started. But just coffee co op use the coupon code. Majority get 10% off. You can buy the majority report blend. People love it. What's happening on Left Reckoning? Yeah. Tonight on left reckoning, 7 o' clock Eastern Time on YouTube Twitch, we got Neil Meyer on talking about a typology of socialisms in the 21st century. What separates democratic socialism, social democracy and communism from one another. We talk about Zoran through the lens of that sort of question. And also Tiara Gatimora, a Spanish Italian journalist coming on to talk about how Europe views America after Trump wins the the fallout of Russia, Ukraine and also Gaza. And also Station eleven, the novel and HBO show that is really excellent. So check that out tonight. Patreon.com left reckoning because that discussion with Tiara is going to be for members only. Ooh, Jay Tingle IMs the show. How like a Democrat to post the best of clip that no one voted for. So I'm so, I mean this is, you know, I mean, nobody claimed it was a democracy around.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly.

[Sam Seder]

Dictatorship of the producers. Exactly. Folks, see you in the fun half three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months from now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're gonna look back and go like, wow, what? What is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second. Hold on, hold on for a second. Emma. Welcome to the program. What is up, everyone? Fun hack. No M Key. You did it. Fun crap.

[Emma Vigeland]

Let's go, Brandon.

[Sam Seder]

Let's go, Brandon. Bradley, you want to say hello? Sorry to disappoint everyone. I'm just a random guy. It's all the boys today.

[Emma Vigeland]

Fundamentally false. No, I'm sorry.

[Ido Alam]

Women.

[Sam Seder]

Stop talking for a second.

[Emma Vigeland]

Let me finish.

[Ido Alam]

Where is this coming from, dude?

[Sam Seder]

But. Dude, you want to smoke this? 7A.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

Hi, is this me? Yes. Is this me? Is it me? It is you. Is this Me. Oh, is this me? I think it is you who is you every single freaking day. What's on your mind?

[Ido Alam]

We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism.

[Sam Seder]

I'm gonna go smell libertarians. They're so stupid. Though common sense says of course.

[Emma Vigeland]

Gobbledygook.

[Sam Seder]

We nailed him.

[Emma Vigeland]

So what's 79 plus 21?

[Sam Seder]

Challenge. Man, I'm positively quivering. I believe 96. I want to say 8, 5, 7, 2, 1, 0, 35, 5, 0, 1, 1 half. 3, 8, 9, 11.

[Emma Vigeland]

For instance, $3,400. 1900.

[Sam Seder]

5, 4, $3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game.

[Emma Vigeland]

Actually.

[Sam Seder]

You're making me think less, but let me say this. You call it satire.

[Ido Alam]

Sam goes satire on top of it all.

[Sam Seder]

My favorite part about you is just.

[Emma Vigeland]

Like every day, all day, like everything you do.

[Sam Seder]

Without a doubt. Hey, buddy. We see you. All right, folks, folks, folks.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's just the week being weeded out, obviously.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah. Sun's out, guns out. I. I don't know.

[Emma Vigeland]

But you should know.

[Sam Seder]

People just don't like to entertain ideas anymore. I have a question. Who cares? Our chat is enabled, folks. I love it.

[Emma Vigeland]

I do love that.

[Sam Seder]

Gotta jump. Gotta be quick. I gotta jump. I'm losing it, bro. Two o', clock, we're already late, and the guy's being a dick. So screw him. Sent to a gulag.

[Emma Vigeland]

Outrageous.

[Sam Seder]

Like, what is wrong with you? Love you. Bye. Love you. Bye. Bye.