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3551 - Trump’s Economy Collapsing; Dems' Clumsy Israel Pivot w/ Krystal Ball
01:29:03
It's Friday! Emma welcomes Krystal Ball, political commentator, author, and co-host of Breaking Points on for a wrap up of the week's news and her grilling of Senator Slotkin on Breaking Points. Also, Trump's economy has finally realized it walked off...
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- [00:03]
Sam Cedar
The Majority Report with Sam Cedar where every day's casual Friday. That means Monday is casual. Monday, Tuesday casual Tuesday, Wednesday casual hump day, Thursday casual Thirs, that's what we call it. And Friday casual Shabbat. The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.
- [00:37]
Emma Vigeland
It is Friday, August 1, 2025. My name is Emma Vigeland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Crystal ball of breaking points. Crystal Kyle and friends joins us to break down the news of the week and her viral and important adversarial interview with Senator Alyssa Slotkin. Also on the program, the United States releases a dismal jobs report revising rosier numbers from June and May to show three straight months of job losses and unemployment rising. Markets tumble as Trump's steepest tariffs supposedly take effect. But we have another deadline push. It's just like, why don't we even bother just keeping up with this? But he says August 7, the new deadline for some of these six in 10Americans now blame Trump for the high cost of living and prices. An overwhelming majority respond saying they're concerned about high prices. High unemployment and high prices are not a good combination, folks. Roy Cooper leads by six points in the first North Carolina poll conducted since he announced his Senate run. The Washington Post reports detailing has reporting detailing sexual assault, torture and suicide attempts at cecop. Trump is reportedly using federal air marshals on deportation flights and deploying the National Guard to ice processing facilities across the country. Chris Smalls has thankfully been freed from Israeli detention where he was beaten after being intercepted on an aid flotilla headed to Gaza.
- [02:51]
Matt Binder
Israel not beating the new South Africa apartheid charges?
- [02:56]
Emma Vigeland
Oh, we're, we're way past that. We're way past that. More Palestinians starved to death. In speaking of that, Trump sent Steve Witkoff and religious fundamentalist Mike Huckabee, who is also our Israel ambassador, to tour the Gaza aid traps. Bloomberg reports that Trump's name was one of the redacted names in the Epstein files.
- [03:25]
Matt Binder
Are we still talking about that?
- [03:27]
Emma Vigeland
Jeffrey huh and Virginia Giuffre's family publicly asked legitimate questions about Trump's involvement in Epstein kidnapping her from Mar? A Lago when she was underage. And lastly, Palantir appears to be the big winner of Trump 2.0. They've gotten like $300 million in business since Trump took office, according to reporting. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show Everybody, Sam is out today, but he will be back on Monday. So it is a casual Fri. Brian's also out. They're not hanging out as far as I know, but it's just Matt and I today. Hello, Matt.
- [04:12]
Matt Binder
Hello. You know the thing, I don't know if you read 1984, but there's a. I did. There's a sequel, little known where you can. No, I'm joking.
- [04:20]
Emma Vigeland
Oh, gosh.
- [04:21]
Matt Binder
For the purposes of this joke where it's called 1986, where everyone could invest in Big Brother because it had an IPO and you know, democratized surveillance. So isn't it great?
- [04:33]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, yeah, I guess I missed that one. But I mean, Palantir as like when we're talking about the surveillance state and immigration and you know, how our technology sector is merging with our far. The far right politics of the Republican Party. It doesn't get. It is very 1984.
- [04:56]
Matt Binder
It's dystopian political economy that we're on right now and in large. And there's another thing I read. I can't remember where maybe it was ProPublica or some outfit like that talks, looks at the quote, unquote problem we're having with leaving a period of extreme mass incarceration, which is that those prisons are empty and that that's jobs. It's jobs being a prison guard and supplying a prison. So it looks like how our plan is to now, you know, do another mass around a mass incarceration, this time in the guys or under the guise under the guidance of Stephen Miller.
- [05:32]
Emma Vigeland
Although I will say that, you know, that point hits on just some. Some stuff that we're seeing like on polling for Defund the police and how that slogan was poorly conceived in terms of not addressing things like you're describing, which is like some of these jobs being central pillars of the community and also like police officers being parts of families. When you frame it now, as Zoron has in his updated 2025 version, walking back the Defund slogan, you talk about unburdening them from things like dealing with mental health issues and having policing being a more straightforward job, as opposed to basically offsetting all of our social ills onto police officers having to deal with them. They're not equipped to do so.
- [06:22]
Matt Binder
And India Walton kind of already ran on that sort of synthesis, which is to say like the demand to defund police. As, you know, police. The actions of police are awful and ultimately not the solution to the problem. But defund is not a prognosis for governing. Governing.
- [06:41]
Sam Cedar
Right.
- [06:41]
Matt Binder
Like you need to actually use the state to ensure public safety in different ways. And that's the thing that was kind of, you can't expect like activists in the midst of a protest to formulate that. But as a, like the DSA wants to say, be mayor of New York, you need to think about things from, you know, the state angle of it.
- [07:00]
Emma Vigeland
Oh, 100%. And we will maybe go in the fun half into. Aaron from Queens is a, is an organizer, DSA organizer. Great account to follow on social media. He did this really informative thread about how DSA won and they won in New York by aggressively canvassing, targeting like the most liberal cohorts, but also, and most importantly, churning out low propensity, non traditional voters as we have national Democrats appealing to 0.5% of Trump supporters by throwing trans kids under the bus and talking about abundance and whatever like libertarian, like garbage they're putting forward. You have actual campaigns expanding the electorate, which professional class Democrats are not interested in. They're more comfortable going to suburban Republicans and asking for checks. But this is how you fundamentally transform our political system and beat back fascism is expanding the electorate like Obama did in 08. And then, you know, obviously was not the transformational president.
- [08:01]
Crystal Ball
Cool your jets, okay?
- [08:03]
Matt Binder
Cool your jets. Got to get these banks going again.
- [08:05]
Crystal Ball
But.
- [08:05]
Emma Vigeland
Well, this actually brings us kind of nicely to our first topic here, which is in part, Obama's election was enabled one, by anger over the Iraq War, but two, anger over the the collapsing economy and the Great Recession. And there's a lot of anger right now about our support for the genocide holocaust in Gaza. And there's a lot of anger that's going to be brewing if our economy collapses. And the numbers that we're now seeing would indicate that that might be imminent, given the uncertainty that Donald Trump is creating with the tariffs, which has essentially frozen economic growth because nobody is investing in a country where they don't know if the mad king is going to wake up on the other side of the bed and decide a 50% tariff rate today or a 15% tariff rate on this country or not. It's not just that it might increase the cost of goods that a business would need to run or imports and things like that. It's also that they have complete uncertainty about where and how to invest because of the nature of this maniac in the White House. So there was a job report, jobs report that was just released today showing that the United States added 73,000 jobs in July. $100,000. 100,000 jobs, rather, was the expectation by most economists. Now those numbers may actually be rosier than the reality because what also came with this jobs report for July was were revised June and May numbers which showed that they had wildly overestimated the jobs added during those two months. And then if you combine June and May, we're now down by a combined 2000 or 25 to 25. God damn it, I can't read numbers. 258,000. There you go from additional levels. And unemployment is up to 4.2%. So the numbers that are now revised about June and May show way, way worse job numbers than traditional than we thought was the case at the time. And that's in part because like some economists were saying, GDP growth shows like it's pretty weak, which is not a great number, but you know, it's a traditional economic metric. GDP growth in the first half of the year was not good, but the jobs numbers were kind of maintaining. Now we're seeing it being revised and showing the true reality here. Here is FOX Business reacting this morning as the numbers are released with just absolute stunned silence.
- [11:04]
Steve Moore
The Nasdaq down about 200, going 73,000 jobs. 73,000 jobs created in the month of July, number just coming out. And that's total 4.2% of the unemployment rate right in line with expectations. Here are the numbers for the month of July. Jobs came in at 73,000. That was lower than the expectation which called for 110,000 jobs. The unemployment rate right in step with expectations at 4.5 3.2%. Steve Moore, your reaction?
- [11:38]
Sam Cedar
Look, I think this is all a result that this disappointing number is a result of all the turmoil over tariffs and trade wars.
- [11:46]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, you think disappointing number. Disappointing to who? Fake news. If we stop reporting the job losses like the COVID cases, maybe they don't exist.
- [11:56]
Matt Binder
Also probably not helping that we're sending goon squads to kidnap laborers in restaurants and stuff either.
- [12:04]
Emma Vigeland
Although I will say that it the the numbers that are being used here are also rosier because when we're looking at things like the payroll employment figures, those do not include workers. Let's put up four here actually. Workers, gig workers, freelancers, anybody who's self employed or farm workers. These are a lot of jobs that would be traditionally jobs that immigrants or you know, people sometimes who are here without the privilege of citizenship or that status that allows you to be in like a more formal employment situation with a W2 and what have you often.
- [12:48]
Matt Binder
Unlike the guest worker visas.
- [12:50]
Emma Vigeland
That's right. Those are not counted in these numbers and those are people who would have been targeted for deportation. What's it? Nearly half of farm workers are immigrants and that's not included here. This is Ernie Tedeschi of the budget lab. The minus 2000 Matt.
- [13:09]
Matt Binder
Quarter of a million.
- [13:10]
Emma Vigeland
Quarter of a million. Thank you. 253K. Why can't I do it? The minus 253K 2M downward revision to payroll employment is the largest since at least 1979 other than April 2020. Meaning that collapse. Exactly. Meaning that's the worst two month revision in payroll employment since 1979. And as I just mentioned, that does not account for gig workers, for farm workers, etc. And here is the economist now, number three. That's all right. Here's some other troubling numbers from Heather Long here. She explains what jobs are. There's two links there in that. No, this one's good. She says, I've been calling this a frozen job market for a while now. I would call it a red flag. The economy is barely adding any jobs. And so now she includes the Revised totals here. 73,000 in July, June 14k, the weakest since December 2020. And prior to that May is 19k. Health care makes up almost all the jobs added in the past three months. Now what has happened in the past three months that would make it so that the health care sector is increasingly privatized? Well, oh, we gutted Medicaid. So the healthcare sector may be adding jobs even as you know, hospitals close too.
- [14:49]
Matt Binder
I mean I feel like that's just because health care is one of the like more stable industries. But as these cuts come in, that's, that's going to evaporate as well.
- [15:00]
Emma Vigeland
Many sectors, manufacturing, professional business, warehouse, retail, government, have lost jobs in the fast past three months. We could go down to her chart here. So here you see it. The economy only added 73,000 jobs in July. You can compare that to the bottom table has that starting at 2021. That's fine. The other chart is better here. This other Heather Long chart showing the frozen job market. I put it as part two in there or part one. Sorry about this, guys. Oh, here. No, this is exactly it. Thank you. So she writes here the labor market is in trouble. Health care and social assistance are pretty much the only sectors hiring. This is not healthy health care added. But all of these other numbers are down below expectation. Retail, finance, hospitality, state government, professional and business services. Federal government down obviously. Manufacturing down 11,000. So that's the key point here, which is that these tariffs were supposed to incentivize jobs to come back to the United States. What happened instead, all it's doing is raising prices, adding a compounding sales tax to the goods that Americans already are paying inflated prices for due to persistent greedflation first, naturally occurring inflation in the pandemic, then artificially keeping prices high due to greed and taking home record profits in the back half of Biden's term. And now the prices are increasing due to the tariffs that regular Americans are going to have to pay for. So this is a bad situation. And like Trump is also playing with the economy with the most petty reasoning. He gave Mexico this extension. He seems to like Claudia Sheinbaum, which, you know, hey, he probably respects strength.
- [17:17]
Matt Binder
And he's got leverage, too.
- [17:18]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah. And now he's mad that Canada recognized Palestine. So he's saying he's going to increase their tariff levels, which is is that America first? Because quite literally he's putting, he's prioritizing Israel in trade negotiations for the United States. I would say that's Israel first. Yeah. So these are some really bad numbers. It's concerning about the manufacturing figures and one last part here from cnbc. I'll just read this other troubling piece of information. There were few signs of strength in the July jobs. Jobs count with gains coming primarily from health care, a sector that has continued to show strength. In the post Covid recovery, The group added 55,000 jobs, easily leading the way. Social assistance also contributed 18,000 jobs. The two sectors combined for some 94% of job growth. That's 94% just in those sectors. That does not include manufacturing jobs. Good jobs for regular Americans. Those are net negatives, not just not growing at the rate that was anticipated. Net negatives. So with Christmas coming around and there are the holidays at the end of the year when I think families are going to be really struggling to buy gifts. And all of these goods that we require to be imported from across the globe, toys, what have you, electronics, it. We're due for a major contraction most likely, I think at the end of the year.
- [18:54]
Matt Binder
Well, you guys get a job at ice. Who's hiring?
- [18:56]
Emma Vigeland
So cool. Cool.
- [18:59]
Matt Binder
$50,000 signing bonus apparently.
- [19:01]
Emma Vigeland
I thought we were Gestapo cutting government bureaucracy. Just adding a bunch of masked Gestapo agents. In a moment, we're going to be talking to Crystal Ball to break down the news of the week and of course, her interview with Senator S.L. slotin. But first, a word from our sponsors. Ding. You know that sound, it means adventure is about, about to take off. But here's a new kind of ding. The one you hear when you start learning a new language with Babel. I don't have Sam Sound Bard over here, so you're just going to have to imagine it or sign up for Babel so you can hear the aforementioned Ding Babbel. I ended up using this in anticipation of my honeymoon just to get the basics down on the language and it was incredibly helpful just to get around and also because people like I was in Italy just it makes you feel good not to have folks have to speak English to you all the time or show some sort of courtesy of when you're traveling that you're trying to immerse yourself in the culture. It makes me feel like less of a brutish American and Babel was instrumental in that. And if I had more time and a better work ethic on that front I really would have kept at it and I'm probably going to keep it up at least maybe with I'm going to try Spanish at some point because I still need to learn that Start speaking a new language with confidence thanks to Babbel's conversation based technique that quickly teaches you useful words and phrases about the things you actually talk about in the real world. There is over a dozen languages available to learn at your own pace so you can achieve your goals with material tailored to your individual proficiency level, interests, time availability, etc. It's handcrafted by over 200 language experts and Babbel's lessons are voiced by real native speakers and built with science backed cognitive tools like spaced repetition and interactive features to fit any learning style. Babbel's tips and tools for learning a new language are approachable, accessible, it's like having a private tutor in your pocket and also you can personalize it to you. As they mentioned, what your learning style is what you prefer. You can just have a dialogue so you can practice your conversational skills right away and you also have speech recognition technology in the app which makes sure that you know that you're getting it right. Stay motivated to learn a new language and it's never been easier thanks to real time feedback, progress trackers, handy visualizations and more in only 10 to 15 minutes a day on Babel's mobile app or website. One study found that using Babel for 15 hours is equivalent to a full semester at College with over 16 million subscriptions sold. Babel's 14 award winning language courses are backed with a 20 day money back guarantee. So get talking with Babel if you want to learn another language. Team up with we're teaming up with Babel to help you do that. To give you 55% off subscriptions@babel.com Majority get up to 55% off@babel.com Majority spelled B A B B E L.com Majority babel.com Majority rules and restrictions may apply. Link below in our video description and Podcast Description and lastly, Sunset Lake SE has a sale on their lifted teas. These are not your average iced teas. Each can is infused with 5 milligrams of THC and and 25 milligrams of CEB. And because these cannabinoids are nano emulsified, you can feel the effects in about 20 minutes. They come in two flavors, original and mint green. The original is a classic black iced tea with a hint of lemon. Mint Green is made with a refreshing blend of green tea and a pinch of black tea and refreshing mint. Both are naturally sweetened with honey from the from Vermont, which is amazing. I love a good iced tea. It tastes amazing and it you don't even notice it. It allows you to relax and just casually drink these teas. And you can just sit on your couch after a long day and use the promo code drink up for 25% off new products. These new products. These these teas. Right now you can try the lifted teas for 25% off when you use the coupon code Drinkup. That's Drink up all one word with no spaces. And I just got to say, we wax poetically about Sunset Lake all the time, but they're a company that you can feel proud of being a customer of. They treat their workers well. They have regenerative farming practices, they donate. And we partnered with them on things like refugee resettlement, strike funds, and more. Sunset Lake Sebede also has just the kinds of testing that makes you feel good about their products. It's not junk. They know what they're doing and they make sure that they have third party testing so you can feel good about their products. This deal ends August 3rd, so do not wait folks. It's 25% off when you use the coupon code Drinkup. That's DrinkUp all one word with no spaces. Head to sunsetlakesebade.com to see additional terms and conditions. All right, quick break. When we come back, we'll be joined by Crystal Ball.
- [25:09]
Sam Cedar
It's Sam.
- [26:31]
Emma Vigeland
We are back and I'm so happy to be joined today by Crystal Ball once again, co host of Crystal Kyle and Friends and Breaking Points. Crystal, thanks so much for coming on the show.
- [26:40]
Crystal Ball
It is always a pleasure My friend, always a pleasure.
- [26:43]
Emma Vigeland
And I'm so glad I was able to book you because you probably have a lot of requests for, to go on shows and talk about that. That interview with Senator Alyssa Slotkin, I mean, gosh, I want. We're saving it to the end, but it was pretty satisfying. Have you gotten some good feedback?
- [27:03]
Crystal Ball
I don't think. Okay. The two things I've gotten the most feedback for in my life were the last Bill Maher appearance I did and this interview. The. And the range of people who reached out to me as well. It had, like, a mainstream breakthrough that, you know, we don't always achieve in independent media. So that, that was interesting.
- [27:24]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah. And it's. It was really amazing. So we'll talk about that in a bit. But I opened the show speaking about these job numbers and the manufacturing job losses that, I mean, Trump can't hand wave away here, but these tariffs are beginning to make their impacts felt, especially the uncertainty that he's creating. And like, you saw that Wall street did not react well this morning in terms of the markets. And then you have. Or maybe it was preceding that, Trump was like, maybe we'll push it back to August 7th or something like that. It. What's, what's just so frustrating is that the tariff delays also have a contracting impact on our economy, maybe even more so than if he were to have implemented tariffs that were slighter but would. And it still would have contributed to inflation. But he is creating uncertainty. So there's no investment in the economy and people are taking their business elsewhere. And. And that's the big problem here. That is still ongoing.
- [28:31]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of problems here that are still ongoing. But, you know, it's not just the jobs report. I know you probably covered this, but the really big news is the revision of the past two months. Yeah. So 258,000 fewer jobs created. And they were. The White House was really growing over those numbers. They were early this week. I also was on Piers Morgan this week, and he was doing. Is like, crystal, don't you need to give Trump credit for the economy's not falling apart. And Bill Maher was out there doing his. Like, I was totally wrong about Trump and the tariffs. Actually, the economy is fine. And those jobs reports were a very important part of their sort of hallucination that this was all going well and great. Not to mention it ignored the fact that, you know, the most maximalist tariffs he had pulled back. So it's not like this was the actual tariff regime either. But now we are seeing that this picture that is developing fits with the fact that there is a big consumer spending pullback, layoffs are increasing. We are at the highest level of consumer debt recorded in history. You're starting to see prices tick up. You've had very slow GDP growth. So these jobs reports really make a lot of sense in terms of the horrific across the board economic policy, not just on tariffs, but really across the board of what Trump is doing. And you know, kind of give us a picture of. Oh no, it is, it is going just as badly as people are feeling and ordinary Americans already knew that because they were already giving Trump really terrible ratings with regard to the economy. So I think they will spin it. I've already seen the spin. I don't know if you've seen this yet, but they're claiming like, oh well, that's all job losses among foreign born workers. Yes, workers, things are going great. So that's going to be. They're going to do this sort of like fascist cope around it is the plan.
- [30:22]
Emma Vigeland
I had meant to mention that in the opening segment. I'm glad you brought that up because I sort of talked around it. But when we're looking at these payroll employment figures, payroll employment does not include farm workers. It also does not include gig workers if you're self employed or you're a freelancer. These figures that we're seeing, which are already horrible, are the ones that are jobs that are largely going to be focused on like voters or people who are citizens as opposed to like gig work or farm work or stuff that you might be doing temporarily. Stuff that requires less documentation about your citizenship status. So it's outside of like getting a W2 and we don't know those numbers. Those figures are a little bit more shadowy. The numbers we're seeing are like private sector and some public sector work that is involved in that are exactly the voters that, you know, Trump is. That are furious with Trump right now.
- [31:21]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, well, and to your point, how do you spend manufacturing job loss? Like this whole thing was supposed to be about like bringing back the manufacturing jobs. You're losing manufacturing jobs, you are failing. It's really that simple. And there's some write ups about the way that the tariffs that have been put in place are affecting Ford specifically. And the auto industry is often held up as one of those industries that's really going to benefit. You know, the American auto industry is really going to benefit from tariffs. Ford is getting screwed because they actually have more of their production outside of Tesla. Interestingly, they have more of their production in the US Than really any other automaker. But because the tariff that was put on Japan was relatively low compared to now the tariff put on Canada, where, you know, you have a lot of auto parts and back and forth and you have manufacturing being conducted by American automakers in Canada and you have these 50% tariffs on steel and aluminum. Ford is really getting screwed over in a way that's causing them to have to contract. So, you know, the tariffs are. Neither one of us are like free trade ideologues here. You know, I'm for a good, intelligent protectionist policy. And that's actually part of what pisses me off is this is the polar opposite of that. There's zero industrial policy to go along with it. There's zero strategy. We're also having situations where, you know, apparently the reason why Canada is getting such a high tariff according to Trump is because he doesn't like what they're doing with regard to Israel, Palestine. The reason Brazil's getting such a high tariff at 50% is because he doesn't want his buddy Bolsonaro to be held accountable for his attempted coup in that nation. So how do you even spin this as being in the national interest? This is all just about his own little, like, proclivities and hang ups and whatever he feels on any given day.
- [33:03]
Emma Vigeland
I mean, the Canada thing is definitionally Israel first, not America first, it's Israel first. And that's the kind of thing that, you know, the base is, does not have, in my view, a liberatory policy about Palestine or one that emphasizes multiculturalism or one democratic state from the river to the sea. It is one that, you know, is isolationist. But there is value here in emphasizing that the Trump is literally prioritizing Israel's like basically appeasing their temper tantrum here in, and putting that ahead of keeping prices lower. Coming over from Canada, I mean, it's absolutely insane. And if any other person was doing this, it would be a national scandal, as it should be.
- [33:53]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. And it does. At the same time that he is, you know, destroying the economy, he's also cutting the social safety net. He's also engaged in this mass deportation, immigration cruelty, you know, which is both theater and horror and reality, which is also, you know, terrible for the economy and terrible for prices and inflation. I mean, it's just, that's why I say it's. It's not just the tariffs. The complete picture of the Trump economic policy is just one of complete oligarchic, captured oligarchic consolidation whilst cutting the legs out from any ordinary American and their, you know, aspirations for the future.
- [34:36]
Emma Vigeland
And it's just enclosing around existing sectors to enrich the friends and buddies of Donald Trump and the future of the economy be damned. Like when we're talking about industrial policy, he's scrapping a lot of the good parts of the Inflation Reduction Act. We could be having an industrial policy that does include tariffs and some protectionism, but you have to pair that, as you mentioned, with a long form on domestic onshoring project that would include basically building up the capacity to make these goods before imposing tariffs on them. Because all this does is raise prices because we just genuinely don't have the capacity to manufacture the goods that he's saying he wants to manufacture in the United States. But he betrays his true motivation with the Canada thing, which is like, I am using this as a way to bully countries I don't like into accepting positions that are more akin to my own or that are favorable to my buddies like Bolsonaro. I mean, yeah, it's truly authoritarian in ways that I still don't think the public has fully caught up to yet.
- [35:51]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, I think that's right. And a lot of it is fake too. Like the after we announced the Japanese trade deal, the Japanese came out and were like, that's not actually what we agreed to. After this big EU trade deal was announced, lo and behold, they come out and say, well, we can't actually this like $600 billion or whatever that they were supposed to invest in the youth. Well, we can't actually compel companies to do that. So it's just sort of like aspirational. But they know that if you give him something to placate his ego, then he'll take that and run with it. So it is authoritarian, it's about him having power. And it's partly why, you know, big business is okay with Trump, because they know they've got the money to, you know, spend however many million dollars and get at the table and get their car bounce and get their deals. And so they're happy to benefit from this, you know, consolidation of oligarchy, which is just. Trump's just been on a speedrun up since he came back into power.
- [36:43]
Emma Vigeland
The, the other big story still remains the Epstein saga and Donald Trump's incredibly clumsy cover up of his. I mean, his involvement in the Epstein files. It's now been reported that he was told he was in the file. Bloomberg this morning came out with a report. He was one of the names that was redacted in the files. And this is entirely like his own fault. And it's, it's so sloppy and incredible to me that he got himself into this situation where he thought he could appease people or he thought he could escape the very real reality that he was like friends with Jeffrey Epstein. And he must know that in his brain.
- [37:28]
Crystal Ball
He definitely knows that.
- [37:29]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, I mean, he. Or he's that deteriorated and then we have another problem on our hands. But like the, the absolute egomania of thinking he could get away with this while running on releasing the Epstein files is astounding to me. And I don't know, it's hard for me to gauge how long this story is going to last. And I'd love your take on it because one, you know it. I think that Mike Johnson unfortunately made the right move with this congressional recess. Like, it is harder to keep the story in the news without there being pressure on the legislature that it was Ro Khanna and I think Massie was putting on them amongst other Democrats as well. But I. There is this drip, drip, drip. So I'm not sure, you know, what's your take on the political salience of this? Basically. And you do a show with, with a, with Sager, who's on the right and is probably a little bit more in touch with like, how his base is responding to this than maybe I am.
- [38:36]
Crystal Ball
I mean, I think the base has bought his, like, either there's nothing to see here or if there is, it's Hillary and Brennan and Comey. I think the base has already, like, accepted the like, insanely stupid and transparent rationale and is happy to like, move on and pretend there's nothing to see here. I think where he does take a hit from this is in that sort of like, more independent bro podcast sphere. And it just, you know, this was key lore in terms of him positioning himself as a phony outsider, you know, and so when you take that away, it makes it harder to maintain. Like you're this punk rock figure going after the system when you're the one now actively like both in the, in the files and engaged in the COVID up. So I think it has some salience there. I also have to say that our friends in the Democratic Party, many of them are like, oh, this is what can slot. Oh, it's just a distraction and we really need to get back to talking about the one big beautiful bill. And like, yes, that's very politically salient. We need to be talking about that. But you could do both. This is the sort of thing where if the roles were reversed, Republicans would never let this fricking thing go. And yet Democratic leadership finds it kind of icky or they're implicated or they don't like the intel connections or whatever it is. They don't go for the jugular in the same way and maybe just aren't really capable of going for the jugular in any sort of circumstance even when they want to. So unfortunately, I do think that sort of lessens some of the impact. The question is whether there are more revelations that keep the story alive. We're not going to get anything interesting from the government. They're working out whatever deal they're working out with Ghislaine Maxwell, I saw she was just transferred to a different federal prison in Texas. I don't know what that's all about, but it sure looks like there's some fuckery afoot there. So it all comes down to if there are leakers, if there's more information that comes out that sort of keeps the story alive. Otherwise, I think he takes a modest hit. I think he continues to slide with independence. I think he continues to fall off a cliff with young men. Has been a demographic group that has like fled him. But it ceases being the existential crisis that for a moment it felt like it might be.
- [40:47]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah. And it's just another example of Donald Trump just having different rules that apply to him then, oh my God, yeah, other politicians. It's just, it's that that is his like greatest power. Also just the idea that he's such an idiot in so many other ways, but kind of a marketing savant as well. But like in terms of the drip, drip, drip, what gives me a little bit of hope on this front is, is that like the voices of the victims, the traditional media is not. They're more comfortable in that space and putting the victims families forward to talk about their experience, which victims should not get lost in this. There is a lot of other, I think, important lessons that we could learn if we have more information about, say, intelligence ties, say government secrets, that kind of thing that it's going to be a lot harder to get. But last night, Virginia Giuffre's family went on CNN with Kaitlan Collins. And this is what her brother had to say about Donald Trump and their continued kind of COVID up about the Epstein files was convicted of the crime. Sky, when you heard the word, hear the word stolen used to describe what happened to your sister when she was.
- [42:12]
Crystal Ball
Recruited away and sex trafficked, I wonder.
- [42:15]
Emma Vigeland
What goes through your mind.
- [42:24]
Roy Cooper
She wasn't stolen. She was preyed upon at his property, at President Trump's property. And I think it's very important that we don't treat it like stolen. Seems very impersonal. It feels very much like an object. And these survivors are not objects. Women are not objects. What goes through my mind is that it's time to protect survivors and it's time to protect the young women and our future generation of young women. So, no, she wasn't stolen. She was preyed upon. And it certainly makes you kind of ask the question, you know, how much he knew during that time. Right. Even a couple of years later, even after he, you know, I believe he had stated something along the lines of cutting off communication or kicking him out. You know, he described Jeffrey Epstein as somebody who really enjoyed being around young women. And so she was preyed upon. She wasn't stolen. That's a predator that came and took her and did absolutely horrible things to her and so many other women out there.
- [43:44]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah. And Danny does it.
- [43:45]
Steve Moore
Right.
- [43:45]
Emma Vigeland
I think, you know, Virginia was such a. Anyone who's followed the story a little bit knows her as such a brave voice in this. I mean, she identified Prince Andrew as somebody who abused her. She was integral in kind of cobbling together some of the survivors to try to stand up to Jeffrey Epstein. And her life was not easy. And she, she died recently. And you hear how Trump callously speaks about her, like property. I mean, this makes sense when you have a rapist as the president. But I wonder, like, we saw this campaign of misogyny from the outset in 2024, with Donald Trump with fantasies about Kamala getting beaten up to she's a slut to whatever it is. And I know that the right doesn't care about that. And they kind of get off on the idea of a Democrat or a black woman being humiliated like that, in their view. But when it comes to these survivors, a story that they followed, maybe this isn't the MAGA base, but it's like young independents that listen to Andrew Schultz or Theo Vaughn or whatever, they've got to go. This is disgusting. And this is, this is also a cover up. This guy's one of the elites that I hate. Even though he positioned himself in every way to show that he's outside of that. And then, you know, frankly, the Democrats don't do him any favors by like. Or do that any favors by separating Republicans from. From Trump's brand altogether.
- [45:22]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, no, that's right. And I think Virginia's brother there makes some really important points I mean, first of all, just the language of she was stolen from Mar A Lago is so disgusting and does reveal a mentality about women that I think he and Epstein shared, which is that they're not humans. They're like, it's. They are objects to be traded around or used for your own enjoyment. Used as like, you know, to give you status. You know, let me surround myself. That's why he buys the pageants and, you know, has the modeling age. Let me surround myself with them because it makes me look better. I mean, it is, I think, less about sex drive for Trump and more this sort of like transactional, proprietary approach to women where they're just another object for him to manipulate in his own image, crafting. And so first of all, the language of stolen really speaks to that. But yeah, of course it, I mean, it doesn't raise questions about what. Whether Trump knew what was going on. Trump knew what was going on.
- [46:26]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah.
- [46:27]
Crystal Ball
He knew this young girl, 16, I think at the time, was trafficked from his organization. It's after that that as her brother points out, that he gives a quote saying Jeffrey likes him young. They were best friends for years and years, close enough for him to pen this like very romantic seeming birthday note. And with the sketch of the naked woman and his signatures, the pubic hair to Jeffrey Epstein, there's no way that you are frequenting those circles. We know he organized a party with all of these girls where the only male guest was Jeffrey Epstein. So I don't know what else he was into. I don't know what, you know, massad or whoever may have on him. He certainly acts like they got a lot. But I think it would be preposterous to think that he didn't know something of what was going on here.
- [47:16]
Emma Vigeland
What do you think of the Democrats? This is a good way for us to sort of transition to the Slotkin interview. But their uncomfortability with this topic. It's depressing to me that in 08 we had Obama get elected in no small part due to opposition to the Iraq war. And there was an opportunity for the Democrats to extricate themselves from a defense, the military industrial complex, basically Zionism, hawkish policy in the Middle east. And that's not what happened at all. In fact, Obama was saying, let's turn the page. We don't need to prosecute these war criminals. And we're at a point right now where you have Marjorie Taylor Greene saying things like genocide and Bernie Sanders won't say that. And this is not for me. To say this is connected to Epstein in the sense that there is clearly a conspiracy here. This is not a conspiracy theory. It may make people in powerful uncomfortable, it may make our intelligence gathering uncomfortable, and it may reveal some dark truths about either US Intelligence, Israeli intelligence, or people in power using information like this as blackmail for their own ends. How can the Democrats not be comfortable in that space when it's being handed to them on the silver platter just because of Trump's own incompetence? And this is an opportunity to at least play, act as anti establishment.
- [48:51]
Crystal Ball
Right, right.
- [48:52]
Emma Vigeland
In this way. Just ask questions and. But they're incapable of doing it because I think that they're so thoroughly captured by a professional class that is way more invested in the maintenance of a system than they are in any other kind of politics. And that includes our military industrial complex, our intelligence gathering, wealth concentration, what have you.
- [49:15]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, I mean, I think there are a few things that are probably going on for different Democrats and the sort of like liberal commentary. It, number one is they want to see themselves as like, you know, the party of science and reason. And this all feels sort of like icky and conspiratorial and QAnon adjacent. So because it became kind of like this right wing coded thing, weirdly, even though it shouldn't have been. It's, you know, a lot of the facts and evidence are just out in the public. Trump himself is deeply implicated, et cetera. But it became kind of like a right wing coded fixation. And so they just think it's sort of icky. And that's why they don't really want to get into the mud on that. That's for some of them. And then for some of them, I think they either know or suspect that he was tied in with intel that, you know, there are these, it was a bipartisan, you know, sex trafficking ring that Democrats won't be spared. And so they're not interested in digging too deeply into what this all looks like and turning over that rock and seeing what's underneath either.
- [50:14]
Emma Vigeland
Right. I think, I think you're, you're dead on about that. There are some Democrats who are staying on this, but once again, it feels like, as opposed to how the Republicans lead the media in a certain direction. Benghazi. Benghazi, whatever. The Democrats have to be led kicking and screaming.
- [50:32]
Crystal Ball
They also just don't. Even if they wanted to, they don't know how. Like, they just don't even know how to, you know, and many of them don't want to. But even if they did. Like, they just, they have no idea how to be current, relevant, controversial, stand for something. They're just such dinosaurs, completely, like, wandering around the modern world wondering what's going on around them.
- [50:55]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, and the line of demarcation is appearing to be Israel right now. I mean, there's an article in the New York Times that is just incredible entitled, gosh, Fed up with Netanyahu and his handling of Gaza War, Democrats rebuke Israel. And you have, like, quotes from Richie Torres in here saying that the Democrats are now done with Netanyahu. I mean, we had to get support for Israel's military action to single digits within the Democratic Party for them to do any kind of change on this front, apparently. But I love this paragraph here. Already some pro Israel Democrats are quietly wondering whether they will have any representation on the 2028 presidential primary debate stage, or if support for the country, however nuanced, will be regarded as a liability. Inshallah, from, From. From ink to God's ears or eyes or whatever. That would be incredible if that were the case.
- [51:56]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. Indeed.
- [51:57]
Emma Vigeland
I don't. So now they aren't in power anymore, so maybe it's more convenient for them. But it's not just them not being in power. They could have flipped on opposition to sending arms to Israel earlier on when they weren't in power in the year. It's the starvation, or in my view, it's cynically the fact that they know that we are past the point of no return at a certain level and they have information that we do not fully have access to in the Senate and especially in the Senate in terms of intelligence. And they might be aware that, like, we are talking about irreversible starvation to death of thousands and thousands of people. And Israel is just like bulldozing the entire north. So there's going to be no ability to collect the bodies and count folks. But we're in hundreds of thousands of deaths here and our media in the United States is still saying like 80,000 or something like that. But it seems like there's a covering your ass element here that is. Oh, yeah, I wonder what that turning point really was internally.
- [53:00]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, I think it's cynical all the way around. Cynical from a historical perspective of they want to be able, years from now to say, oh, look at this statement that I put out. Look at this thing I said on the House floor about how terrible it was that these babies were being starved to death. And just don't take a look at my voting record where I voted to, you know, send the bombs and give all the support for this ongoing genocide. So. And it's also incredibly cynical from a political perspective. Now I would like them to be more cynical from a political perspective and wake up to the fact that there is no issue I can think of in my lifetime where the Democratic, the vast bulk of Democratic elected officials are so at odds with where the base is. I mean, it is so stark. I've never seen anything like it. And it is a testament to the power of the Israel lobby and the way they form these relationships over time and keep people in Czech that it has gone this long and this far without people even stepping back one iota. So now they're trying to search for, like a centrist approach to genocide, and there isn't one. And I don't think that they understand that. You know, you see. Are you familiar with Mallory McMorrow? She's running in the Michigan Senate. She tried to put out. She's like a Liz Smith canon. And she tried to put out this, like, cut off the offensive weapons and I'm upset, but release the hostages. You know, they're trying. And this is what Slotkin tried to do in the interview with me as well. They're trying to find a middle ground approach to genocide. And that is not a tenable position. Liberal Zionism is no longer a tenable position. And I think that almost none of them realize, really realize that that is the case. And that if you are not out there, if you had anything to do with this, like if you voted for the arms and you aren't out there saying, I will spend the rest of my life trying to make up for that, if you aren't doggedly doing everything you can with all your power at this point to make this stop, like, that is the only correct and reasonable position at this point. And if you aren't there, then you like, I don't care what you have to say about anything else. And this was one of the things, when I was thinking about the interview with Slotkin, there were two things that I really wanted to know and wanted to get across to her. And one of them is I really wanted her to understand because I think she's a cynical political actor. If you don't understand this is the genocide and aren't willing to use your power to try to stop it, no one cares what you have to say about anything else. It is a moral red line litmus test issue and it should and it has to be and it will be. And she clearly doesn't understand that. And I think Very few Democrats do understand that, frankly. And then the other thing that I wanted to know is just like, how do you, how do you live with yourself? I genuinely. That's what I've asked myself so many days about, like, her and the other Hasbaras. And I don't even mean to just pick on her because this is just so common among the political class, among the media class. Like, I am torn up by what I see every day in my timeline. How are you not feeling that? Like, are you not fully human? How do you live with. How do you live with having sent these weapons? Like, how does that not eat you up inside? I genuinely don't understand because I feel guilty about not doing more myself. I think about it all the time. And yet here you are, complicit and you're just like, going about your life and just doing the same things. I can't understand it.
- [56:27]
Emma Vigeland
I mean, I will never be the same. I know that you. And we're experiencing this in incredible comfort relative to the people in Gaza. And I will never obviously look at the United States or power the same way. And that's how the world is reacting. And let's get to that interview there too, because what you're saying, the level of how out of touch she is, I think begins with her even agreeing to do the interview. You ask her at one point, why did you come here?
- [56:59]
Crystal Ball
And she asked us to come on, by the way, to be clear.
- [57:02]
Emma Vigeland
Yes.
- [57:02]
Crystal Ball
Like, we didn't reach out to her office. She came to us.
- [57:05]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah. So she came to you guys. What's your theory on this? Because for me, my theory, my. I don't. I think Schumer knows he's toast because he's. He's still with it, even though. And he's not a dummy, even though he's a bad politician. I think he knows because he voted to send arms to Israel and a majority of the caucus voted against their leader. Our friend Edingermentum pointed out that that doesn't usually pretend well for the future of that person, like leading the party, going down the road. So I think Schumer is trying to set up options for leadership in that have young, kind of. That are young relative to him, but have very similar politics. Or maybe not Schumer, but Democratic leaders or the liberal Zionist lobby or what. Or other interests, abundance people. Reid, Hoffman, there's a lot of people that are trying to get it to just be about age. And Slotkin, I think, is doing a bit of a media tour to try to appeal to shows that have younger audiences like yourself. And she was so unaware, it seems like, of how, what either of you and Sagar feel about the genocide in Gaza, how you feel about it, what the tenor of the interview is going to be, that like, you must be so completely outside of where the base is that you don't even, you don't know anything about this show. She probably doesn't know anything about our show or any of the other bigger left wing shows. And that's a pretty significant problem. Right? Like the right is so tuned in with the podcast space because they care about what their base thinks.
- [58:48]
Crystal Ball
Yeah, I still have been thinking about that. Like, what did they think? And I. So first of all, they did have some awareness, like certainly her staff had awareness of our show and like our basic dynamic. I knew she knew something about Sagar's views on Epstein, for example. And in the. I kept waiting for them to cancel leading up to the interview. I was like, there's no way they go through with this. But originally I was going to just do the interview solo because it's sometimes better. A one on one dynamic can be better than you're not worried about like stepping on each other. And also it's kind of an intra Democratic party thing. So that just sort of made sense. Her staff was really adamantly opposed to that. They wanted Sagar there because they didn't want the appearance. This is what they told our producers. They didn't want the appearance of a softball interview. Like, girl, you don't need to worry about that. Be careful what you wish for there. So I mean, ultimately I was glad that it did end up with Sagar there because I think he did a great job and like, you know, we played well together in that context. But that was kind of interesting, revealing to me of like what she wanted and what she was going for. When I asked her, what are you doing here? Why did you want to do this? She brought up like, oh, I like that you guys disagree with each other. So I think even though there was some awareness of the show, I think number one, she thought she sort of did have that like centristy Morning Joe, like left, right dynamic in mind. People who are in the establishment have a hard time wrapping their head around our politics. Like you and I's politics, saga's politics. I have a hard time wrapping my head around Saga's politics sometimes, to be fair. But. But in any case, I think she couldn't really conceptualize what we're doing though she had some familiarity. And then I also think that she is very confident in her ability to spin. So, you know, she's not.
- [60:38]
Emma Vigeland
I mean, she's not.
- [60:38]
Crystal Ball
She was very across. Yeah, she's talented. No, she's talented. There's no doubt about it. She's intelligent, she's talented. I see why Schuber, whoever, are like, pushing her forward because she believed that her coming on and saying, the starvation needs to stop and I'm organizing this letter that I would just. I think she thought I would accept that and think that, okay, she's moving and that's enough. And I don't think she realized that, number one, you can't have a centrist position on a genocide. Number two, I knew her voting record and that there was a lot to be held account for. Number three, I was going to ask her, okay, well, if it's crimes against humanity, that obligates you to do a lot, actually, as a person with a lot of power. And so I think she thought she would be able to spin it because she normally can, you know, in every other setting she's been able to. And the point where I thought she was the most clearly Weasley and actually went from being Weasley to just outright lying was when I asked her about Apex support, I said, will you stop taking APAC money? And she got very high dudgeon. You need to get your facts straight. I am the only woman who hasn't been endorsed. And I'm like, well, I don't even know about your endorsement. I didn't say she was endorsed. I said, money. And so I said to her, but you have received their funds. And that's when she just outright lied and was like, well, I got some back in 2018, but since then, not so much. And of course, people immediately pull up the records like, okay, but you did. Actually, this is just like now a flat out lie. But to me, the way she was able to take my words and say, oh, well, I wasn't endorsed, which may be technically true. She may not have been technically, like, on the endorsement page. Just demonstrated to me what a sense skilled spin master she was, that she had her talking point ready to go of how to be like, I'm not the Apex shill that you people want to portray me as. But then when she got called out on that as well, then she just like, resorted to outright lying about it.
- [62:28]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, and. And, and I mean, I think this was honestly, I'm not trying to butter you up because. Just because you're my friend, but, like, this was a watershed moment, I think, for online Media. And you, you deserve a lot of credit for it because let's look at this comment section on Colbert. So she went on Stephen colbert show like 48 Hours or something like that after your interview 24 Hours. She missed a vote to block arms sales to Israel to do this and then put out some statements saying, I would have voted to block it t he if I was there. As if that's going to work. Like maybe show up. And. And you also bring up the other Michigan race, which is very fascinating because Haley Stevens in that race is just begging for a pack money. And then you have Abdul Al Sayed on the other side. And I think McMorrow's got to drop out so there can be some consolidation. But that's like, we'll put that aside for now because it'll be if, if Abdul Al Said does well or wins the primary. I mean, Slotkin's got to worry about like things. And this clip of your interview coming back about Israel and all of that. But so Slocking goes on Colbert, I listened to it. She gives a very similar answer that she was. She gave to you about starvation. And Colbert lets her get away with it. And the audience applauds. Very different than how you engage with the interview. But this is what the comment section looks like. Slock and staff told her to go to Breaking Points for publicity. Then her PR told her to go to Colbert for damage and control. Laughing my ass off. She signed a letter criticizing, yeah, here we go. Thanks to Breaking Points, we now know that the Senator was recording this interview at the same time she was supposed to vote on preventing further funding to Israel for offensive weapons. Breaking Points really dropped the ball by not asking Senator Slotin about her opinions on hot dogs versus sandwiches.
- [64:22]
Crystal Ball
That was my next cue before the staff was like, she's gotta go.
- [64:26]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, you could. That would have been. She would have been too into the fryer on that. All right, it's a little corny. This is stupid. The fact that this is one day later than her train wreck interview on Breaking Points is such a jarringly clear example of why legacy. I love what Matt likes to like these comments live, blah, blah, blah. Clear example why legacy media has record low trust. I'm just here to upvote any comment that mentions breaking points, etc. So this is why I say this was like a really, I think, important moment and she was not prepared because she's used to that kind of talking point working on every other major outlet. And it's an example of how like on the Right. We see the Nelk boys glazing Netanyahu and now getting crap for it, but we do. Or that independent podcast fear that's so apolitical that it becomes right wing. But when with political, independent news, you guys are just showing that we now have an opportunity, if politicians want or will engage, to be, to show what independent journalism can look like, which is adversarial and not this like tap dance that they do on the mainstream news.
- [65:42]
Crystal Ball
That's right. And, and, and in many independent, quote unquote, independent spaces as well, by the way. And so, you know, we're talking about cynical politics here. I hope the cynical take away from other creators who have previously, you know, done the just like softball interviews is this got a lot of attention. You know, if you're just in it for the cloud and the clicks people were talking about it. If you just want attention, hey, guess what? One way you can get attention, if that's your whole game, is to actually hold a politician to account. I mean, Tucker did the same thing with Ted Cruz, you know, and that interview got a lot of attention. But I think you're right, I think you're right that, I mean, listen, I don't want to like overplay it because it's very self serving, but I do think there's something to be said for the fact, as you point out, that you've got on the one hand the Nelk boys, which is like just most egregious, insane caricature of this. Just like, let's have a dangerous person on and just have a conversation and not really know what the hell we're talking about. Kind of a mode that happening, the mass backlash, I mean, just across the board backlash to that. Them being like doing their mea culpas and like, oh my God, we really screwed this up. And then, you know, an example where, okay, this, this really is the way that you should be questioning people who have power because they should be held accountable. I don't care where you are on the political side. I mean, you know, I've done interviews with people who I, who I like and consider ideological allies. And they still, they deserve tough questions, all of them. It brought home to me. It really was brought home to me too. Yesterday we interviewed the GHF whistleblower, is a former Green Beret, did nine combat tours, you know, Purple Heart decorated, all of that. And this man is shaking and crying while he tells me about what he witnessed being done to human beings by the IDF and by, by the way, American mercenaries, Americans on the Ground. And, you know, it just was a reminder of why it was uncomfortable. No one liked like some people do, but I don't like being confrontational. I don't like being an asshole. I didn't enjoy doing that interview. It wasn't fun for me. It wasn't fun preparing for it. It wasn't like all of that. But it matters. I mean, these are real human beings and their lives are destroyed. I mean, everything they've ever known has been decimated. Children who are starving to death. I mean, entire population and culture and history that is being obliterated on our timelines every single day. And so if you aren't, like, willing to bear a little bit of discomfort, like, how pathetic is that? It's the absolute bare minimum, least that anyone could do. So that's, you know, that kind of was my reflections on. On what was a pretty wild week of her breaking points, to be honest with you.
- [68:28]
Emma Vigeland
Sure, sure. Yeah. I mean, I hear you on that. I want to play a little bit because I. I feel like, you know, some in our audience maybe haven't heard it, but you should check out the full thing on breaking points. What do you think is better here? You're like, longer exchange with her on when you start questioning her about it or towards the end when you ask her explicitly about genocide? We could go either way.
- [68:51]
Crystal Ball
Let's see. I don't know what your pick. Let's do the genocide one, because then we can talk a little bit about that.
- [68:57]
Emma Vigeland
Sure, sure. So that's. That's part seven. B. Matt. So here is when you ask her specifically, after this has been fairly heated for quite a while around, like three fourths of the way through the interview, you ask her specifically about whether or not she considers this a genocide.
- [69:15]
Crystal Ball
So Betsellam and another Israeli human rights organization joined the global consensus. Amnesty International, some 800 scholars. There was a piece from an Israeli scholar in the New York Times in saying, this is a genocide. Do you accept Even Marjorie Taylor Greene yesterday came out and said it's a genocide. Do you accept that? And if you do, I mean, what responsibility does a United States senator have for. This is a nation that, you know, we send every year billions of dollars to aid. To aid that you have, you know, voted for and supported. Like, what responsibility does a United States senator have to prevent genocide and to stop genocide that we see ongoing?
- [69:52]
Steve Moore
We have a responsibility up till today to ensure that food is getting in.
- [69:59]
Crystal Ball
Is it a genocide?
- [69:59]
Emma Vigeland
People don't starve.
- [70:01]
Steve Moore
I don't know that I'd use that term, but it is using it is violating the law of war.
- [70:06]
Crystal Ball
Why don't you use the term, though?
- [70:07]
Steve Moore
Because I think, you know, it's to me, if it is, do I think it's ethnic cleansing, which is what I think of in genocide? I don't know if it meets that definition There another.
- [70:18]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, but didn't you say it earlier that it was ethnic cleansing?
- [70:21]
Sam Cedar
He said that they wanted to force. I mean, this is open from the Israeli government.
- [70:24]
Crystal Ball
Like they're saying it, they're making it.
- [70:25]
Emma Vigeland
And from Trump, national security.
- [70:27]
Sam Cedar
They come out and they're like, we need, we don't need shells.
- [70:29]
Emma Vigeland
We don't need. We need shells, not food and we need to encourage migration.
- [70:33]
Steve Moore
Like they're saying, you're not going to get me to support what the Israeli government is saying right now. I think the point I was trying to make is it's not just about like, we have relationships with nations over time, regardless of who their leaders are. We have really tough moments. We have easier moments, but that doesn't. So I'm not willing to say tough moment that like, I hate everything ever.
- [70:56]
Crystal Ball
Sure. But so even, even if you accept that they're committing a genocide, you still wouldn't cut off their aid.
- [71:02]
Steve Moore
I think that defensive aid and offensive aid are different things. And I think at this point, so.
- [71:07]
Crystal Ball
If they're not doing every single day, if Nazi Germany said we want defensive aid, I mean, it's just, you have to see where they're all weapons that.
- [71:16]
Steve Moore
Are being shipped, the weapons that they're using right now. I mean, to be honest, if you look at what's happening on the ground, the military part of this conflict is for the most part over what they are doing. What they are doing every single day is around aid. They are hurting people around us.
- [71:33]
Crystal Ball
They have slaughtered over a thousand people who are starving people just trying to get aid.
- [71:38]
Steve Moore
That is not, that's not high intensity bombs. That's not the weapons that you, that we were talking about two years ago.
- [71:45]
Crystal Ball
It's just not.
- [71:45]
Steve Moore
I'm sorry. Every single day, the military reports that I read, they are traditional. Like, this is a military that has a bad strategy. It is not the bombs that we were seeing two years ago.
- [71:57]
Crystal Ball
It's not a military that has a bad strategy. The strategy is for starvation. That is, that is not a, that is their strategy and their effect and their economy accomplishing it very effectively with the full backing of the United States government, including, sadly, Democrats.
- [72:10]
Emma Vigeland
Well, and so, I mean, well, she goes like it, there's, there's so much there.
- [72:18]
Crystal Ball
But.
- [72:18]
Emma Vigeland
But Crystal, you take. You take it from. From there for just a second. Your reflection on that moment.
- [72:23]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. I mean, I just want to say, because sometimes it can kind of feel okay. Why are you guys so obsessed with people calling it a genocide? And I think in a way, in that exchange, you see why it matters. Because if you are an elected official, especially Democrat, who claims to care about, like, humanitarianism and liberal values, and you accept that this is an ongoing genocide that we've been complicit in, that comes with historical weight. It comes with a moral responsibility. And they don't want that. They don't want that. They don't want to have to look back and say, you know what turns out? Biden and Harris, like, they were complicit in genocide. You know what turns out? When I voted to ship those weapons that ended up being dropped on babies in refugee camps and hospitals and all the rest, like, that was a horror. They don't want the weight of what that would require of them right now in this moment. And so that's why I think it's more than just a semantic word game. And Sagar and I actually have a different. You can watch. I debated Sagar on this yesterday, but that's why I think it's really important and why I'm so disappointed that, for example, Bernie Sanders won't commit to using this word, which, again, it's the global consensus at this point. There's just really no denying it at this point. And then the other thing is her framing of, we're having a tough moment with an ally. We're actually not. We're not having a tough moment. This is all backed by us. We're fully in alignment. I mean, Trump is out there actively saying, hey, he's the one who said, let's do the ethnic cleansing. Like, Gaza, lago, let's do it. And so, no, it's actually not a tough moment with an ally where we're in disagreement, we're in full agreement, we're fully backing it, we're fully complicit. That's some of the spin and delusions that make me so angry. And then her comment that, oh, it's a military with a bad strategy. No, this is not an accident. They're not just, oh, oops, we engineered a famine over years. This was deliberate, intentional and effective at accomplishing their goal of complete and destruction, total destruction of these people, mass starvation to force a complete ethnic cleansing. Like, it's all out in the open. And just to deny it at this point, it's not tenable. It is not tenable.
- [74:40]
Emma Vigeland
And when we talk about the Epstein story in this, I mean, I see them in similar veins and it's not necessarily, necessarily like the easiest line to draw. But I do think they're both credibility tests in different ways for people in power. If you're willing to talk about the government conspiracy in terms of protecting powerful people associated with Epstein, and if you're willing to call the Gaza genocide a genocide, then you have a certain immediate credibility with voters. You were saying this kind of earlier and you said it to Slotkin that wouldn't be the case. And she also, in the interview on that point, she vacillated between saying it was an issue that people online care about way too much, but also that it's an issue that is deeply personal to her constituents in Michigan. So much so that she has to have these like panels and works with Arab and Muslim leaders as well as Jewish leaders and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So which one is it? Is it an online left wing issue or is it an issue that's deeply personal to folks in your state? Because we know that only 8% of Democrats now approve of, via Gallup, of Israel's military action in Gaza. So the point is, is that it's actually quite widely held and I don't know where they get this idea from that this is not something that motivates people because there's no information that would suggest that given Kamala's loss and the role that this played and Zoran's win and the role that it played there.
- [76:13]
Crystal Ball
Well, since they're soulless psychopaths, they can't imagine anyone actually having a conscience in voting based on this. And I think it's the sort of thing where, you know, people don't necessarily list it as their first issue, but it's, it's a gatekeeping issue because it is a signal of do, do you mean anything? Like, do you have a single, are you a human being? Do you have a single principle that you're willing to stand and fight for? And so, you know, the Zoron's race is so important and so instructive for this reason because we now know very clearly Zorin did not win in spite of, of his anti Zionist position. He won because in part because of it. And his opponents did him a massive favor by making it a central part of the race when he wasn't going to. Like he's focused on his message of affordability, et cetera, and by making that a central part of the race, it did nothing but help him. I mean, they, There was a poll that came out, I think like 67% or something of New York City Dem voters were like, yes, do arrest Bibi Netanyahu if he comes to New York City. We agree with you, Zoran. I think it was roughly 80% who said, yes, it is a genocide. Like, the Democratic base agrees with us. And I don't expect Alissa Slotkin to become a real human being who actually cares about these things. But I would like to see people realize there is a cynical, wide open political lane here who I am completely convinced whoever comes in and is just unequivocal, it's a genocide. We're going to do everything we can to stop it, upholds Palestinian humanity and is just unafraid to completely go there without any fear or reservations, et cetera. Like, they are going to be a giant star because of what it. Because of the issue itself, but also because of what it says about that person and how they are willing to stand for humanity, stand on principle. Even when you know that all of these forces are going to come out of the woodwork to try to destroy you and label you a racist, anti Semite.
- [78:04]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, right. And I mean, the tough moment, the laws of war thing, that also stuck out to me, the fact that she talks about the military reports that she's receiving and like, this is the kind of information that they're absorbing as opposed to just go on social media. Like, I mean, this is just. The disconnect is just incredibly jarring. But lastly, on this front, I, I wonder what you think this means for the future of the party, because we're seeing that the numbers in terms of polling for Democrats are lagging behind what they were in 2017, approaching the 2018 midterms. Like, there is less of a desire to vote for Democrats just to oppose Donald Trump. That's straight up what's happening right now and in no small part due to the support for genocide. So what's your sense of like, we have. I know you and Kyle have been on this and you're right, like the base is increasingly radicalized and wanting more. But that may not translate in terms of the midterms, although seemingly that's all Democrats seem to focus on is elections and like, what, how this poll tests or whatever. But with this looming, I'm growing increasingly concerned that they can't motivate people with this leadership persisting.
- [79:32]
Crystal Ball
I think they probably do fine in the midterms just because I think Republicans are kind of demoralized. I think there is enough of a backlash effect that they do pretty well in the midterms. Not nearly as well as they could if they actually were a real opposition party, certainly. But, you know, the future of the party is going to be determined in 2028, and I think it's going to be feast or famine. You know, I think they can, they have a real whose side are you on Moment facing them. You can either continue down the path of like being cozy with the donors and doing everything to protect their feelings and make sure that their checkbooks are still open for you, or you can actually, you know, offer a true alternative to the fascist Trump takeover that we've seen. And part of that is certainly like standing up against genocide. I have a feeling that the Democratic base is very ready for a more radical bold vision. And it's just a question of if someone is actually going to step up and really offer that and then how much. You know, I honestly don't even think that the Democratic Party apparatus is strong enough to screw that candidate in the way they did to Bernie in 2016 and 2020 because they have lost so much trust, the media apparatus has lost so much trust, etc. Like they're just a hollowed out husk, a house of cards waiting to over. But, you know, that requires some leader to step into the void and actually offer that bold vision.
- [80:54]
Emma Vigeland
You know, who it could be, who.
- [80:57]
Crystal Ball
Needs you to be mamala of the country.
- [81:00]
Emma Vigeland
I'm 100% joking. I hope she gets the message and doesn't try that humiliating run.
- [81:09]
Crystal Ball
No, Emma, I think, I feel like she's so delusion. I feel like she's got people around her who will make money off of her running again and are looking at the polls and are like, oh, you're up. They love you. See, they miss you. Come back.
- [81:22]
Emma Vigeland
She girlfriend just go into private practice and cash in. That's all you need to do. I mean, we need some we. We need. I'm letting you go after this. But like the, the we. This came up on the show yesterday. Like the idea it was someone saying some politician was extremely nice. Oh, it was Cory Booker. We had an immer. And I've heard that and I've heard that about Hillary Clinton and you've heard that about like, like interpersonally and I don't doubt that Kamala interpersonally, for example, or like Joe Biden, he's so well liked by his colleagues. Like the quality of you can make somebody feel like they're the only person in the room and you know what? That quality is really good for raising money from really rich people that want to be flattered and feel like they're the only person in the room with Hillary Clinton. But I don't know if Bernie makes people feel like they're the only person in the room. I don't know if Zoron makes people feel like they're the only person in the room, because it's not about the only person in the room who can cut you a check. It's about mass mobilization politics and bottom up politics, not top down politics. And I think there is that line of demarcation where she just. Just is incapable or. And I'm not sure who the Democrat will be, but most Democrats are incapable of, you know, actualizing that kind of politics, so.
- [82:41]
Crystal Ball
Yeah. Well, I'm gonna get roasted for telling a woman to get back in the kitchen. But Kamala never seems happier than when she's cooking. I'm being so scary. It's like, love, enjoy. She's in there. She's very skilled with it. Like, go do, like, go start a cooking YouTube channel. Go do that. Like, you'll be so much happier.
- [82:59]
Emma Vigeland
Yes, yes, exactly right. And you know, her food looks good. Like, I would. I would try it.
- [83:05]
Crystal Ball
Absolutely. She looks like. I feel like she's hot.
- [83:08]
Emma Vigeland
She's rich.
- [83:09]
Crystal Ball
A charisma that comes out doing that, too. Yes, like, exactly. You don't have to do this.
- [83:15]
Emma Vigeland
You don't have to live like a Kardashian.
- [83:17]
Crystal Ball
It's not gonna go well. Just consider other alternatives.
- [83:22]
Matt Binder
Call it 107 minutes. And all the dishes have to be done in 107 minutes.
- [83:27]
Crystal Ball
There you go.
- [83:29]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, it was like, I mean, the idea that her campaign was 107. The numerology people with October 7th have got to be freaked out right now. It's too many coincidences. Anyway, well, appreciate your time today, Crystal. I really love our conversations. Always. And everybody should check out that full interview over at Breaking Points. And of course, Crystal, Kyle and friends as well. Thanks for coming on to that.
- [83:53]
Crystal Ball
Okay. Oh, it's my pleasure. Great to see you, Emma.
- [83:56]
Emma Vigeland
Yep. Great to talk to you. All right, well, with that, we are gonna. Gonna head into the fun half where we will take your calls and read your IMs and have some fun. I think we're definitely gonna get into that Nelk boys stuff because that's pretty hilarious. Maybe some Rogan.
- [84:13]
Matt Binder
Imagine if, like, adults could get detention. Yeah, that's sort of what happened to the nunclist.
- [84:19]
Emma Vigeland
I mean, the guy, like, basically no reason Says, yeah, just hung them up by their underwear on the hooks on the door. That's what it looked like. Folks, your support is essential to this program surviving and thriving. Go to jointhemajorityreport.com Become a member if you can. Helps us out so, so much. Keeps us independent, keeps us rolling. Matt, what's happening on Left Reckoning?
- [84:45]
Matt Binder
Left Reckoning this weekend, Sunday, for the Sunday show, Having Jasper Nathaniel on. One of the most impressive journalists covering this. Well, actually, not only Gaza, but particularly the West Bank.
- [84:57]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah.
- [84:58]
Matt Binder
And the. I mean, Jim Crow is putting it lightly, which is a horrible sentence to ever be able to say truthfully about what's happening in the West Bank. It's more, you know, inglorious bastards, Nazi stormtroopers type stuff going on over there. And so look, check that out for members. Patreon.com left reckoning.
- [85:21]
Emma Vigeland
All right, See you in the fun half. Okay.
- [85:27]
Sam Cedar
Emma, please.
- [85:28]
Emma Vigeland
Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority report.
- [85:32]
Sam Cedar
Wait, whoa. Look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a vacation at Disney World, so. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show this Thursday.
- [85:43]
Matt Binder
I think you need this improvement for Sam.
- [85:45]
Sam Cedar
Yes, please. No, no, no.
- [85:46]
Roy Cooper
I'm.
- [85:46]
Emma Vigeland
I'm.
- [85:46]
Sam Cedar
I'm gonna pause you right there. Wait, what? You can't encourage Emma to live like this, and I'll tell you why. So, was offered a tour, Sushi and poker with boys. Tour, sushi and poker with boys. Who was offered tour? Yeah, sushi and poker with boys. What? Tour, sushi and poker.
- [86:06]
Crystal Ball
Mine.
- [86:06]
Emma Vigeland
Tim's upset.
- [86:07]
Sam Cedar
Twerk sushi and bulker with two boys. It was offered a twerk sushi and that's what we call biz. Twerk, sushi and bulker with three boys.
- [86:17]
Crystal Ball
Right.
- [86:17]
Sam Cedar
Twerk sushi and we're gonna get demonetized. I just think that what you did to Tim pool was mean free speech. That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about him. I think you're responsible.
- [86:32]
Emma Vigeland
I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.
- [86:37]
Sam Cedar
Sushi and poker with the boys. Oh, my God. Wow. Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered a tour. Sushi and poker. Boys logic. Sushi and poker. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a kid Tour. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little Kid. Add this debate 7,000 time. People just don't understand. I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but, like, I absolutely think the US should be providing me with a wife and kids.
- [87:12]
Emma Vigeland
That's not what we're talking about here. All right?
- [87:16]
Sam Cedar
It's not a fun job. Twerk.
- [87:18]
Crystal Ball
That's a real thing.
- [87:19]
Sam Cedar
That's got a real thing. Real thing. Willie Walker. Work. That's a real thing. That's got a real thing. Real offered. That's a real thing. That's real thing. Real thing. That's a real thing that's offered at work. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. Offered it work. That's a real thing. I think he might be blowing it out of proportion. Real fit. That's poker with boy. Is that offer. That's a real thing. That's poker. Let's go. Joe. Sushi and poker with boy. Take it easy. Then tour. Sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker with the boys. You don't have a clue as to what's going on live YouTube.
- [88:00]
Emma Vigeland
Sam has the weight of the world on his shoulders. Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore.
- [88:05]
Sam Cedar
Anymore.
- [88:06]
Emma Vigeland
It was so much easier when the majority report was just you.
- [88:11]
Sam Cedar
Let's change the subject. Rangers and Knicks are doing great now. Shut it up.
- [88:15]
Emma Vigeland
Don't want people saying reckless things on your program.
- [88:17]
Sam Cedar
That's one of the most difficult parts about this show.
- [88:20]
Emma Vigeland
This is a pro killing podcast.
- [88:22]
Sam Cedar
I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury the hatchet.
- [88:24]
Emma Vigeland
Left his best trump.
- [88:26]
Sam Cedar
Violet Twerk. Don't be foolish. And don't tweet at me. And don't the way Emma has cucked all of these people. Love it.
- [88:33]
Emma Vigeland
That's where my heart is. So I wrote my honors thesis about it. Yes.
- [88:41]
Sam Cedar
I guess I should hand the main mic to you now. You are to the right of the unto policy.
- [88:45]
Emma Vigeland
We already fund Israel.
- [88:47]
Sam Cedar
Dude.
- [88:47]
Emma Vigeland
Are you against that?
- [88:48]
Sam Cedar
That's a tougher question. I have an answer to. Incredible theme song.
- [88:56]
Emma Vigeland
Hi, bumbler.
- [88:57]
Sam Cedar
Emma Viland. Absolutely one of my favorite people.
- [89:00]
Emma Vigeland
Actually.
- [89:01]
Sam Cedar
Not just in the game, like period.