3555 - Kidnapped By Israel; Medicaid Coverage Cliff Looming w/ Chris Smalls, Katheryn Houghton

Summary

The Majority Report with Sam Seder: Episode 3555 Summary

Release Date: August 7, 2025
Hosts: Sam Seder (filled in by Emma Vigland)
Guests: Chris Smalls, Former President of the Amazon Labor Union; Katheryn Houghton, KFF Health News
Location: Downtown Brooklyn, USA

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1. Economic Policies and Tariffs

Overview:
The episode opens with Emma Vigland introducing the day's topics, prominently featuring the implementation of long-anticipated tariffs and their anticipated impact on the U.S. economy. The discussion centers on President Donald Trump's aggressive tariff policies, especially targeting Brazilian imports, and the broader implications for international trade relations.

Key Points:

• Tariffs Implementation:
  The new tariffs, ranging from 10% to 100%, especially target semiconductors not produced in the U.S., aiming to bolster domestic manufacturing. Apple CEO Tim Cook's plea for a carve-out in Brazil exemplifies the tension between corporate interests and federal policies.

• Trade Surplus with Brazil:
  Contrary to Trump's rhetoric about deficits, the U.S. holds a significant trade surplus with Brazil—over $7 billion last year—primarily in energy, steel, and iron. The tariffs are expected to severely impact Brazilian exports like beef and seafood, with potential bankruptcies looming in those industries.

• Impact on Consumers:
  Tariffs are predicted to lead to increased prices for everyday goods such as hamburgers and coffee, disproportionately affecting lower and middle-income Americans. Emma highlights a poll indicating that 70-80% of Americans are concerned about the tariffs, emphasizing the public's unease.

• International Relations:
  Brazilian President Lula da Silva criticizes Trump's "authoritarian" negotiation tactics, asserting the long-standing civilized diplomatic relations between the two nations. Lula stated at [07:37], “A president cannot humiliate himself for another president. I respect everyone. I demand respect towards me.”

• Political Maneuvering:
  The tariffs are seen as part of Trump's strategy to consolidate power and assert dominance in international dealings. This protectionist approach is criticized as fostering authoritarianism and undermining global trade stability.

Notable Quote:

Lula da Silva ([07:37]): “A president cannot humiliate himself for another president. I respect everyone. I demand respect towards me.”

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2. Interview with Chris Smalls: Breaking the Gaza Blockade

Overview:
Chris Smalls joins the show to recount his harrowing experience of being detained and abused by Israeli authorities while attempting to break the blockade in Gaza as part of the Freedom Flotilla Coalition.

Key Points:

• Mission to Gaza:
  Chris details his participation in the ninth mission of the Freedom Flotilla Coalition, emphasizing the goal to disrupt the illegal siege imposed by Israel before October 7. The flotilla aimed to deliver essential supplies like food, medicine, and prosthetic parts to Gaza.

• Detention and Abuse:
  During the interception by Israeli authorities, Chris was subjected to violence and psychological abuse. He describes being physically attacked—“thrown to the ground,” “knee in my back,” and “using my chains to choke me”—highlighting the racial and militaristic hostility he faced.

• Critique of Labor Unions:
  Chris criticizes American labor unions, particularly the Amazon Labor Union, for their complicity in the genocide of Palestinians. He points out the hypocrisy of unions like Amazon’s, which have invested heavily in military projects like Project Nimbus and have failed to pass resolutions against the violence.

• Lack of US Support:
  Chris expresses disappointment with the Trump administration's lack of support during his detention. Unlike other detainees whose embassies showed up, his US embassy failed to provide assistance, underscoring governmental neglect.

• Call to Action:
  He urges listeners to support Palestinian stories and hold government officials and corporations accountable for their roles in perpetuating the conflict.

Notable Quotes:

Chris Smalls ([26:28]): “The Palestinian liberation is not outside the scope of labor. For the Palestinians, their trade movement has been a part of their resistance since the first Nakba.”

Chris Smalls ([33:43]): “The average age of the commandos onboarded the Hondala might have been 20 years old. They were young kids, definitely brainwashed.”

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3. Medicaid Cuts and Work Requirements with Katheryn Houghton

Overview:
Katheryn Houghton from KFF Health News discusses the significant federal Medicaid cuts, focusing on the introduction of stringent work requirements and their potential consequences for millions of Americans.

Key Points:

• Work Requirements Implementation:
  The new federal guidelines mandate that Medicaid recipients must work or engage in approved activities (like schooling) for at least 80 hours per month to maintain their coverage. Katheryn explains that this move is the largest cut to Medicaid since its inception over 50 years ago.

• Impact on Medicaid Enrollment:
  States previously attempting to implement similar work requirements faced legal and administrative challenges. The new federal standards aim to enforce a nationwide policy, likely causing a significant drop in Medicaid enrollment due to increased administrative burdens and confusion.

• State Variability:
  States have been applying different approaches to meet the new requirements. For instance, Montana has introduced longer exemption periods for vulnerable populations, while Arkansas is pushing for stricter measures like lifetime caps on Medicaid eligibility. This inconsistency may lead to further legal disputes and varied impacts across states.

• Real-Life Consequences:
  The discussion highlights personal stories, such as that of James from Montana, who faces a "coverage cliff"—a point where slight income increases disqualify him from Medicaid. This situation forces individuals to choose between accepting potentially fraudulent activities to maintain coverage or risking their health.

• Economic and Social Ramifications:
  The tariffs and Medicaid cuts collectively contribute to rising living costs and decreased access to essential services, disproportionately affecting lower-income and vulnerable populations. The policy changes are critiqued as regressive, exacerbating economic inequality and undermining public health systems.

Notable Quotes:

Katheryn Houghton ([14:17]): “It's going to wipe out anybody but the largest corporations which have money to play with on this sort of thing.”

Emma Vigland ([52:30]): “People are saying no to promotions or higher-paying jobs because those jobs don't guarantee health care. This is a pervasive problem.”

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Conclusion

Episode 3555 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder delves into pressing economic and humanitarian issues, highlighting the far-reaching effects of Trump's tariff policies and the severe implications of federal Medicaid cuts. Through insightful interviews with Chris Smalls and Katheryn Houghton, the show underscores the intersection of labor rights, international conflict, and healthcare accessibility, urging listeners to recognize and respond to these systemic challenges.

Stay Informed:
For more in-depth coverage and updates on these topics, visit Majority.FM.

Transcript

[Emma Vigland]

You are listening to a free version of Majority Report with Sam Steater. To support this show and get another 15 minutes of daily program, go to Majority FM please.

[Sam Cedar]

The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.

[Emma Vigland]

It is Thursday, August 7, 2025. My name is Emma Vigland in for Sam Cedar and this is the first five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Chris Smalls, president of the Amazon Labor Union, will be back with us to talk about being detained and abused in an Israeli prison after trying to deliver aid on a flotilla to Gaza. And later in the show, Katherine Houghton of KFF Health News joins us to talk about the effects of Medicaid cuts and work requirements. Also on the program, many of the long awaited tariffs take effect today. Yes, finally, they range basically at the bottom from like 10 to 15% to even higher than that, including Trump announcing 100% tariffs. Love that word. On semiconductors not produced in the United States, making Apple CEO Tim Cook grovel at the dear leader's feet gifting him a golden statue because please, please, please give iPhones a carve out in Brazil. Lula responds to the 50% T tariff by rejecting Trump's shakedown attempt as a humiliation. Trump wants a new census five years early that excludes undocumented immigrants. A reminder that in the Constitution, even the founding fathers, well, now I know this was to give slaveholding states more power, but they said slaves counted as three fifths of a person. Trump wants no counting of undocumented immigrants. The New York Times reports that Andrew Cuomo and Trump have been chatting on the phone. Ugh. Trump is also threatening a military takeover of Washington, D.C. because Doge staffer Big Balls got beat up by two 15 year olds. That's not the fake headline. The administration begins stripping federal workers of union protection, starting with 400,000 VA employees. An Alabama auto plant has a union election this week, a milestone in the UAW's push to organize in the south. At least four Palestinians have starved to death over the past 24 hours. Dozens more killed by bombs. Boston Consulting Group, the firm behind the Gaza Humanitarian foundation that's been shooting hungry Palestinians, is developing Trump's ethnic cleansing plan. Moving Palestinians to Somalia is what FT found in their reporting was in their news deck or not. Newstec slides for their proposal. And lastly, Texas Democrats staying in Illinois receive a bomb threat. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show everybody. It's an AM Majority Report Thursday. Hello to Matt, hello to Brian, hello to you guys. Let's just start here. So the tariffs that have been long awaited, many of them take effect today. We're going to be seeing increased prices throughout the rest of the year. But there are some estimates that say that the worst of the price increases could take up to like, eight months to make their effects felt. What we're seeing now in terms of increases are in part due to the fact that not it's not directly the tariffs, but it's the freezing of economic activity that has resulted from the constant daily back and forth and uncertainty created by this bizarre tariff negotiation. That is mostly about Donald Trump's ego and having countries and companies come to him. That's why he's excited about Tim Cook groveling at his feet. He is trying to consolidate his power and loves the idea of the world's biggest countries or companies coming to him and having to bend the knee. And we're orienting our economy around the whims of this particular guy, which is just a part of the authoritarianism that we're seeing ramp up. And this fight with Brazil is particularly insane because I'm going to repeat this for people. We had a trade surplus with Brazil. Trump has been saying this is all about deficits. We have a trade surplus with Brazil. We sell billions more to Brazil than they sell to us. We had last year a over $7 billion trade surplus with Brazil and over $90 billion in trade. We trade energy, steel, iron and more with Brazil. But the commodities that come back in our trade relationship are 100% going to be affected by this, particularly beef. So the United States has been increasingly reliant on Brazilian beef. It's up to a quarter, a fifth of the beef that we import into this country. And it's like hamburger meat, ground beef. So we're going to see burger prices likely increase in this country. We also import seafood from Brazil, tuna, things like that. I was reading in Reuters, I think that the United States is something like 70% of fishing exports for Brazil. So this could basically bankrupt that industry down there. Coffee is another big one. Like, part of this tariff insanity is some of these commodities we can't even grow and make here. We can grow some coffee in Hawaii, but for the most part, we've got to import coffee, and this is going to affect coffee imports as well. So this is also, interestingly, kind of a bit of a gift to Lula domestically. He's had a rockier second time around here. And there's been some inflation issues down in Brazil, of course. But he's getting a polling bump from some of his fights with Donald Trump. There was a poll that Bloomberg News took down in Brazil and showing that he's ahead, ahead of his 2026 race. So with that in mind, here is Brazilian President Lula talking about Trump and their negotiations. And this is a translation over his actual words.

[Lula da Silva]

So what is happening? The civilized way for two heads of state to negotiate is to have the will to take the decision along with Brazil. He could have communicated with Brazil, he could have called, he could have proposed a negotiation. But we received the taxation statement in a completely authoritarian manner. And we are not used to negotiating in this way. Not like this. In that moment, we still have a lot of people in Brazil trying to talk with Americans. We believe that a country that has 201 years of civilized diplomatic relations will not throw that away because of the intemperate attitude of a president. Let me tell you something. A president cannot humiliate himself for another president. I respect everyone. I demand respect towards me. I love respecting people and love being respected.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah.

[Chris Smalls]

Gotta say, here's Petado.

[Emma Vigland]

So that's him. The quote that's making the rounds is the humiliated, humiliated quote. And we've seen that, like Mexico, for example, despite Claudia Sheinbaum being on the left, has largely escaped some of Trump's ire here, in part because she approached the negotiations from a position of strength, both in her tactics, but also in the fact that Mexico has enormous leverage here. Brazil has leverage, too, because Brazil is one of the world's biggest countries and we do have a significant trade relationship with them. To go back to what I said, and we'll keep repeating it, we have a trade surplus with Brazil. When Trump was saying that he was supposed to only be targeting these deficits, it's insanity. But good thing Americans don't like hamburgers, right? The Republicans have been saying for years that Democrats want to take away meat from you. Trump wants to take away your hamburgers because he's pissed that Lula da Silva and Brazil is prosecuting his friend for trying to do a coup. This is the America first guy. We're going to raise prices for imports from Canada because they dare to recognize a Palestinian state. And Trump's friend in another country is in some legal trouble. So we're going to raise your coffee and beef prices for America first. Right?

[Chris Smalls]

Coffee, beef and fish. Takes me out completely.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, I mean, time to move. So, like, this is going to be really impactful. And they're struggling to get out of this like when you ask Americans, too, in public polling about tariffs, it is overwhelmingly unpopular over something like 70 to 80% of Americans are concerned about the tariffs. It's quite difficult for them to message around this, especially because a guy like Scott Besson here is a typical Wall street money money guy, and everybody in his orbit is pissed about this kind of thing. Here he is this morning on msnbc. Also, it's evident that they're even going on MSNBC to have to make their case here. That's how worried I think they are. One, about the markets, because the markets are freaked out, and two, about trying to sell this to people. Here he is on msnbc. Kind of being cornered here by. Who's this anchor? I'm not sure his name.

[Chris Smalls]

Eugene Robinson.

[Emma Vigland]

Eugene Robinson. There we go. Great speaking voice. I'm not really familiar with him, but he's on Morning Joe, so we probably don't have a ton in common politically. Regardless, this was a great kind of subtle way that he cornered Scott Besson.

[Eugene Robinson]

Here out of me in a changing world. Mr. Secretary, there's one question I got to ask you because there has been some confusion. So we've got a tariff of 50% on Brazil now, I think. And so if someone here, an importer, wants to buy Brazilian products today or tomorrow and import them, they're going to pay 50% to the Treasury. And so who writes that check? Well, couple of things. First, we could have substitutions. So there's very little that only comes from Brazil. You know, that it could come from Argentina, it could come from. Right. But assuming it does come from Brazil, say, or it comes from any country with a tariff, who writes the check to the, to the Treasury? Well, the check is written to the person who receives it at the DOCK.

[Emma Vigland]

In the U.S. just, just, just looked it up quickly. Argentina accounts for around 1 to 2 to 3, 1.5 to 2.5% of the beef imports to the United States. Brazil, a fifth to a fourth around that. So this isn't like any other country can replace this trade relationship, but just go back like 10 seconds.

[Eugene Robinson]

Tariff. Who writes the check to the, to the Treasury? Well, the check is written to the person who receives it at the DOCK in the U.S. the check is written by the person who receives it at the dollar. So the tariff is paid in this country by the importer. Is that right? But the Brazilian exporter could decide that they want to keep market share. They could lower their price so that the full 50% of the tariffs say, right, they can eat part of the cost. They can eat part of the. Which is what we've seen. Okay, okay. But the check is written by the importer right at the dock. Yeah. And then the importer can pass it on or not.

[Emma Vigland]

Okay, all right. So they move on from that. But that silence and that gulp. The importer, the for profit company that has no morality and is just interested in shareholder value and profit and that kind of thing, they could decide to pass it on or they could decide to take less money for themselves and eat it. Which one will these companies decide to do? It's really hard for me to figure out.

[Katherine Houghton]

I mean, like we've been talking about, it's going to wipe out anybody but the largest corporations which have money to play with on this sort of thing.

[Emma Vigland]

Exactly. And even they're pissed about it because it will. It's going to be impactful across the economy. When we're talking about the situation that Trump is setting up right now with tariffs, which are inflationary because they increase prices, because even though Bessant is trying to lie his way out of it, it is passed on to the consumer. So it's a compounding sales tax, which is already a regressive tax because it proportionately impacts people more the lower their income is because the price of a good is the same for everybody. But if you have less money, it's more of a tax on you proportionally than if you have more money. So tariffs are going to increase, basically sales tax, or that's how they will function. So it's going to be passed on disproportionately to lower income Americans, disproportionately to middle income Americans compared to upper class. And as you go down the list, that's how it's going to work. And what this lunacy protectionism is doing as well is also just continuing to strengthen Brazil's relationship with China. We're going to see this across different countries with economic power. India is a big question in all of this. Modi is in a more precarious political situation. His party took a hit last election cycle. How does he manage this ideologically? He and Donald Trump, of course, are close together, but he has to think about his own self interest here.

[Katherine Houghton]

Trump's been alienated. Edward Lewis in the FT has a good piece on basically how Trump's entire term so far has been a big gift to China. And from the taking credit for the ceasefire between India and Pakistan, which Modi's like, no. And also like tariffing Taiwan, which is where we get all of our semiconductors, which is I'LL just people should check out the map, how close Taiwan is to China and like, what would happen if say, we drove Taiwan more into China's hands? Like, and we're worried, we're worried about them taking it by force. We might just be forcing them to have a better relationship with China through our insanity.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah.

[Katherine Houghton]

And all this is about American capitalists impotence. And we're trying to. Trump's trying to lash out thinking we're going to be able to make Japan drive Ford F150s. I don't know, it seems so self.

[Emma Vigland]

Defeating to me because, I mean, I don't even think it's that well thought out. Forgive this sports reference, okay? But people will have to deal with it for just a second. Right now the Cowboys are having these insane negotiations with Micah Parsons, who's the best defensive player in the league. And Jerry Jones reminds me so much of Trump. And he keeps delaying these contract negotiations and the more they delay, the more expensive it goes because the cap needs going up and up and the player gets more leverage and the outcome is largely irrelevant to him. It's because he's like 8, in his 80s. He's an old kind of slimy business guy from back in the day. And it's the negotiation and the feeling of empowerment as an old businessman and the deal making process and the back and forth. And that's almost like, I don't know, fetishized by these guys. It's like their golden hours where they get to feel important again and have all the, and have the negotiations come to them and they can control everything. And it's like Trump is doing that with tariffs. The outcome is irrelevant to making the Dear Leader feel like he's the most powerful person on the planet.

[Katherine Houghton]

I would use a different metaphor. It's like a toddler who realizes that all of the adults get really concerned about paying the toddler attention when they grab their phones.

[Matt Binder]

Right?

[Katherine Houghton]

So like grabbing a phone or like going to an expensive vase, that's basically this tariff thing and all the world leaders and a lot of them are caving to him. Lula. I mean, Sheinbaum also Trump negotiated a trade deal with Canada and Mexico. So it's hard. He's kind of constrained a little bit by that and deciding to go at the entire rest of the world. I mean, it's insanity. And just generally speaking, Congress is to blame for this. It should not give him the leverage to do this. The justification for it is for emergencies, which are about fentanyl, which is a joke. The idea that and illegal immigration or whatever. Like these aren't real concerns. Congress should take these abilities out of his hands. And unfortunately they wanted to give them to Obama as well for the TPP at the end of his term. But Congress needs to step up and be in charge of what's going on in this country in terms of like what industries are going to benefit and all that other stuff. But yeah, we got some ads that.

[Emma Vigland]

Was part of the leverage that Chuck Schumer, our good friend, that this program gave away. In a moment we'll be talking to Chris Smalls, a former president of the Amazon Labor Union, co founder. First, a word from some of our sponsors. Magic Spoon is one of my favorite sponsors. I love having Magic Spoon in the morning in part because I love cereal, but I don't love the junk that comes with some of the sugary cereal. I also love having a high protein meal in the morning and Magic Spoon solves both of those problems with high protein, zero sugar cereal and treats reinvented from your childhood. So you get to have that nostalgia without some of those trade offs. I really enjoy the treats. I had some of their bars that I just ran out of recently that are really good as well. They're like cereal bar, granola bar things. They're phenomenal. But also the cereal is great as well. You can get it at some grocery stores. The one around the corner from my place has them. Every serving of Magic Spoon has high protein cereal, has 13 grams of protein, 0 grams of sugar, and 4 grams of net carbs. They come in nostalgic flavors like fruity cocoa and frosted. Magic Spoon's high protein treats are crispy, crunchy, airy and an easy way to get 12 grams of protein on the go. They come in mouthwatering flavors like marshmallow, chocolate, peanut butter, dark chocolate, et cetera. Both are great on the go pre or post workout and as a midnight snack. Get $5 off your next [e-mail] this is the wrong code. I think it's a different show than ours, so that's okay. I'm going to see if the ad do we know the code for Magic Spoon? We'll put it in the description. It'll be in the show notes. It'll be in the show notes. Let me just check if I have it in my email here because it's funny that the Nope, it's the same one. The incorrect show. Anyway, I think it's majority but I'm not exactly sure. Either way, you can get $5 off if you Put the coupon below in the description. Look for Magic Spoon on Amazon or in your nearest grocery store. That's magicspoon.com. whatever's in the description might be majority for $5 off. And lastly, delete Me. Delete Me is a service that I can say I can recommend really highly because I've used it. I started using it even before I started working here and before I even knew that they advertised with us. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time where surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable, data brokers make a profit off your data. Your data is a commodity. Anyone on the web can buy your private details. This can lead to identity theft, phishing attempts, harassment, and more. But now you can protect your privacy with Deleteme. What do data brokers do? Well, your name, your contact information, Social Security number, home address, even information about your family members could all be compiled by data brokers and sold online. Thank you to Deleteme for sponsoring the Majority report. Deleteme is essential for me. It protects my family. It protects even my friends, people who sometimes are a little bit. Some crazies out there who aren't exactly, you know, balanced and they want to look up personal information and reach out and stuff like that. Delete me. They. They protect me in that area and I'm. I don't know what I would do without it, honestly. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com Majority and use promo code Majority at checkout. And the only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com Majority and enter code Majority at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Majority code Majority. 20% off. Your delete me plan link will be below in the description. Wherever you're listening to or watching this quick break. And when we come back, we'll be joined by Chris Smalls. We are back. And we are joined now by Chris Smalls, former. Sorry, former president of the Amazon Labor Union, founder of the Amazon Labor Union, who was recently released from an Israeli prison for his role in trying to block or break the blockade in Gaza as a member of the Freedom Flotilla Coalition. Chris, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[Chris Smalls]

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

[Emma Vigland]

Yep. And I know you're on the go, so I really appreciate you taking the Time to speak about your experience, talk about your decision to go on the flotilla. I know this is the second, second flotilla in this iteration. The first one made news with Greta Thunberg on, on the float on the flotilla. What, what. Why did you choose to, to try to break the blockade?

[Chris Smalls]

Yeah. Thank you. I mean, well, for, for one thing, people thought that the, the Madeleine with Greta was the first flotilla. That was actually mission number 37. I mean, 36. The Hondela was mission number 37. This initiative has been happening since 2008. And yeah, the goal is not to deliver humanitarian aid, but to absolutely break the illegal siege that Israel has imposed before October 7 for over two decades, controlling what goes in and out of, of the borders, including food and medicine and prosthetic parts which we were carrying. I chose to go on there as an American labor leader, as you mentioned, for founding the Amazon labor union. American killing half a million Palestinians in less than two years. I wanted to definitely spread awareness about that, but also connect the dots. You know, Amazon is not only participating in the genocide, they invested $7.2 billion into Project Nimbus, which is essentially the Iron Dome for the, for the IOF. And these labor unions in America for the last 21 months have been shipping arms to Israel every 15 months and manufacturing weapons. They passed zero resolutions. And they're not only participating, they are complicit as well. And they had the blood on their hands as well.

[Emma Vigland]

I've heard some of your critiques of the longshoremen and other labor leaders that have not stepped up to oppose this genocide. Can you expand a little bit on your critique there and why you felt it was important to connect the dots with labor and organized labor and the genocide of Palestinians?

[Chris Smalls]

Well, for number one, I read an article not too long ago where there was some type of meeting amongst some of the labor unions and they audacity of them to say that the Palestinian liberation is outside the scope of labor, which is insane for them to say when they say injury to one, injury to all. That doesn't exclude Palestinian lives. And for the Palestinians, their trade movement has been a part of their resistance since the first Nakba. You know, they always had trade unions involved in humanitarian aid or just civilian life. I've been fortunate enough to meet plenty of Palestinian presidents for trade unions. My sister, Susan Salaam, that's based in Jerusalem, the Palestinian president for women. And I know for a fact that working class issues, this is hand in hand. It doesn't mean that we exclude people because they're Palestinian. It's ridiculous. And that's something that's really shocking. That's coming from institutions and unions who once stood on the right side of history when they went up against the apartheid in South Africa.

[Emma Vigland]

And how did it come together for you to get on the flotilla? And if you could just speak about how long you were sailing and what it was like when, you know, how you prepared for what you would imagine was an inevitable, likely Israeli interception of the flotilla and what it was like when they boarded the ship to take you all into custody.

[Chris Smalls]

Yeah, so for me, I was, from my journeys around the world, I've been in company with some of the folks that were on the Medlean and I was able to get in contact with the co founder of the Freedom Flotilla coalition, Hueda, who, who actually this was her ninth, ninth time aboard the flotilla. She also survived the 2010 massacre when Israeli forces jumped on board and killed 10 of the volunteers. So, yeah, I had a phone call. I had 24 hours really to make a decision. And I didn't hesitate. I knew that it was an important initiative and I think the time is now. And that's how I was able to get on board. And we spent some time training, of course, before we set sail. So we spent about two days in Saracuza, Italy, then we sailed to Gallipoli. We did some more training with other volunteers and other coalitions and then we set sail, which was about seven days on the Mediterranean. And it was very, you know, very difficult at first. We had to make adjustments, of course, 21, 21 volunteers on the small fishing vessel that was built from 1968. It's not an easy journey. And, you know, people I know are excited. They want to get on the next one because of the things that we accomplished. Even if we didn't make it, we definitely inspired people to get involved. And you know, I just say this though, to my comrades who want to do it. It's not meant for everybody. I don't, I don't think that anybody should have to do what we have done, which is put our lives on the line, you know, not knowing if we can make it back home or not. And when they, when they aborted, they onboarded the Hondala just like the Madeline. They come in the middle of the night, they cut communications off. We had to ride with them for about 12 hours to the port of a shot, which is the immigration authorities. And that's when things got violent with me. They handed, we handed over, they handed over everybody to the authorities. And I was met with a Violent attack from seven authorities. I was thrown to the ground. They put their knee in my back. They twisted my arms behind my back, and. And they had three guys on each side levitate me while one was pulling my hair and. And using my chains to choke me. So, you know, I experienced something that the other passengers and volunteers didn't. And I know from my own personal experience dealing with the authorities out there that there's no way people could tell me otherwise, that this wasn't blatantly designed by race, bigotry or hatred for people of color. But there's no way people could tell me that Palestinians can live peaceful amongst the Israeli regime when they have such a hatred that I've never experienced in America in my life.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, you were the only, I believe, from reading, black person on the flotilla of over 20 folks who were trying to deliver aid. And it appears that they singled you out.

[Matt Binder]

Right?

[Emma Vigland]

I mean, that's what you're saying. And brutalized you in particular for. For that reason. I heard you on Democracy now mentioning they were saying some horrible things to you as well. What else happened during your time in detention and how long were you in an Israeli prison?

[Chris Smalls]

I was there for five days. I was one of the last to leave. And not only did I experience this, the story of racism, but my brother had also color. He's. We both were the last to leave. You know, we could have sent us home on any given day, but they chose to save us for last because they also were not just trying to physically abuse me, they were trying to psychologically abuse me as well. And also with the others as well. They knew that we were on a hunger strike, so they. They pretty much was weaponizing food by trying to give it to us, knowing that we wouldn't take it. They even brought the warden in and set food in front of us. They even raided us twice with the raid unit for no reason, made us strip. You know, and this is some of the things they did and said were just disgusting. You know, I've never once again experienced any type of hatred like that on any level in my 37 years in America. And as far as, yeah, me being singled out, they definitely passed along the message from the IOF because I did give them a piece of my mind. You know, I took a long journey out there, and I definitely told the IOF to their faces that without those guns and weapons, they're nothing. They're nothing but peons. And they're. And they're scum because these are killing machines that have no remorse. And they think they're doing something notable. And I definitely gave him a piece of my mind on the way out.

[Emma Vigland]

I mean, that's the other thing that is just like I can't wrap my mind around is what goes through these, the heads of these people who are clearly immensely brainwashed. But it's also a deeply racist society that encourages that racism as a part of like education, the militarism, and even in, of course, their treatment of you. And you can see how there's a reason that Mandela showed solidarity with the Palestinians throughout his life, for example, because the struggle of anti racism is indelibly connected to the Palestinian liberation cause.

[Chris Smalls]

Absolutely. And even though I experienced what I did, it's still just a fraction and a glimpse of what Palestinians have to go through. Not even close. And that's, that's even more shocking. And one more thing is that I could tell you that the average age of the commandos that onboarded the Hondala, they might have been 20 years old, 21 years old. They were young, young kids. And they definitely were brainwashed. And it was sad to see that they could be any average college kid walking around.

[Emma Vigland]

And you are an American, obviously. Did you have fears that the Trump administration, for example, would just say, see you later. It's immensely brave for you to be doing this, in part because this administration clearly would not have your back, it appears, if the Israeli government put its foot down.

[Chris Smalls]

Yeah, I mean, that's something that I knew when I signed up for it. I knew that I wasn't going to be able to count on this administration. And they proved me. They proved me right. The embassy did not show up. You know, everybody else's embassy showed up with them in person.

[Emma Vigland]

Wow.

[Chris Smalls]

To check on their well being, to make sure that they were safe and ours didn't. I spoke to the counselor over the phone. He never showed up in person. That was at the port of authorities and he promised my safety, but this was already after I've been assaulted, so he failed already. So it's just, it was just a shame to see and take note that our US Embassy, once again, our taxpaying dollars is going towards a government and administration that don't really care about Americans at all. It was seven of us. We were one third of the crew.

[Emma Vigland]

Lastly, Chris, because I know you've got to run. I know that there are you mentioned some folks on the flotilla who want to go back. What can people in our audience do to help your comrades on the flotilla? Other efforts to break the blockade? And what would your message be be to our audience about some of the efforts to try to put pressure on Israel in this way.

[Chris Smalls]

Yeah. I would just say what I mentioned before, you know, it's not meant for everybody to do. We shouldn't have to do it. I honestly encourage everybody to fight in their own way. You know, everybody has a lane to fulfill and a role to play. And whether it's protesting what it's demonstrating, if you want to do direct action, sure. But once and once and foremost, we just got to keep the people of Palestine and the people of Gaza foremost, we have to keep their stories and keep the hope alive for them. Right now, what we're seeing is so inhumane as a father, as a civilian, as an American taxpaying citizen. We all need to be outright and we need to hold these government officials accountable along with these entities like the labor unions and the corporations as well.

[Emma Vigland]

Chris Smalls, founder, former president of the Amazon Labor Union, recently released from an Israeli prison where he was abused. He was trying to break the blockade in Gaza with the Freedom Flotilla Coalition. Chris, thanks so much for coming on the show today and taking the time.

[Chris Smalls]

No problem. Thank you for having me.

[Emma Vigland]

Of course. All right, guys, quick break and when we come back, we'll be talking to Katherine Houghton about the impact of these Medicaid cuts and work requirements. Be right back.

[Sam Cedar]

Sam.

[Emma Vigland]

We are back and we are joined now by Katherine Houghton, KFF Health News Montana correspondent, covering health policy and politics, access to treatment and the business of healthcare in the state. Catherine, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[Matt Binder]

Thanks for having me.

[Emma Vigland]

Of course. So let's just start a little bit, I think, by talking about the Medicaid cuts in general and the one big beautiful bill and what the cuts entailed. I mean, it's the largest cut to the program since it was created I don't know how many decades ago, over 50 years ago. @ this point. Math off the top of my head is in the strong suit, but it's basically gutting the program. Is that your assessment of it?

[Matt Binder]

Well, the story that we're looking at is really focusing on the work requirement component of it. And so it's setting up a lot of new current hurdles and rules that people who are enrolled in Medicaid are going to have to work around. And we know based on what we've seen in other states that have done this, though there are a few and some of the examples are short lived, we know that that does cause people to lose access to their coverage and often because of paperwork problems or confusion on how they actually prove that they're meeting requirements. So we know that there will be a drop in the number of people enrolled in Medicaid because of these work requirements. And just broadly speaking, some of what the federal changes that are coming down the pike will do will require people to show that they are working 80 hours a week or, sorry, 80 hours a month. And so that can translate to an actual job or that can translate to school or there are other kind of small list of exemptions that people may fall within. And so there's still a little uncertainty of, like the rules that they'll have to, states will have to live by to implement checks on that and see whether or not people are meeting those reporting requirements and how they'll actually stand up reporting requirements on a state to state basis.

[Emma Vigland]

And so these work requirements, you wrote about that and how there were already over a dozen states that were trying to implement work requirements for Medicaid prior to, to the passage of this bill on the federal level. What was the status of many of those efforts and how does that impact it now coming from the federal government? The paperwork, the red tape, all of.

[Matt Binder]

That, how do those things kind of come together?

[Emma Vigland]

Yes, yes.

[Matt Binder]

So I would say so we found, and I think it was 14 states that either have plans in the work to implement their own form of work requirements or, or have announced their plans to implement work requirements. And so a lot of these examples are states that have been trying to work towards this for a really long time. Like you said, I am based in Montana. I know that lawmakers here had approved work requirements in 2019. And so for a lot of reasons, states for the most part have not been able to do that. Some of that is because of court cases holding them up, delays in the first Trump administration to actually go through that process, or the Biden administration blocking such efforts. The states that we were looking at, many of them were trying to implement rules that, again, lawmakers had already established years in the past. Some were moving ahead quicker now that President Trump is back in office saying, like, you know, we're going to get, we're going to get a green light for this now, so we might as well keep moving forward on it. In Montana's case, it's really interesting because it was the first state to release a draft plan for its own form of work requirements requirements after the federal government had defined its standards and after President Trump had signed work requirements for this program into law in July. So it's an interesting kind of case study of how states may be shifting and so as far as how these things intersect, there's a big question mark still, I think. And so in Montana's case, we see that the state largely aligned its plan with what the federal government has already laid out as the blanket rules that, that need to be put in place by end of next year. But there are some areas where the state puts a little tweak to the program and I think there's uncertainty and whether or not that will be allowed. And so we're seeing that with a lot of state plans. There's a lot of overlap. The goal is the same. If you want access to coverage, you have to prove you're working. But at the same time, states have their own little forms to what that could look like. And there's a lot of questions of whether or not that's going to be.

[Emma Vigland]

Allowed and why is why are states attempting to kind of have put their own spin on it or flavor? Is it because this legislation was in the works prior to the passage of this bill, or are they trying to be more draconian than the federal government? What's the motivation?

[Matt Binder]

So it varies. I would say a consistent theme is a lot of these efforts were already rolling in place years back and so they're trying to follow through. These are state Medicaid agencies in a lot of cases, trying to follow through on what lawmakers already established as their set of rules. You have some states that, and it's interesting, Montana actually kind of softens what the federal government would require. And by that I mean they have a longer list of people who would be exempt from work requirements. The federal standards do lay out some exemptions, people who are medically frail, low income parents. But Montana's list actually goes longer in trying to kind of buffer vulnerable populations from having to do these reporting requirements. For example, they lay out people who are fleeing domestic violence wouldn't have to meet the requirements for a time. People who are without housing wouldn't have to meet the requirements for a time. You also have states though, that are going stricter. And so I think Arkansas is one of the examples of that where they actually say no exemptions. You have Arizona that has said that they are going to largely align with the federal standards when it comes to work requirements. But they're trying to implement different pieces that maybe are kind of tangential to that. And so an example of that is with Arizona, they're trying to create a lifetime cap on how long somebody can tap into Medicaid if they are capable of working. So there's a lot of Variety in whether they're going softer or stricter than.

[Emma Vigland]

What the feds have established and the roadblocks that they ran into prior to this. Right. Were the courts or the Biden administration kind of holding it up? Is that, do they now kind of have a legal basis to do this? Does that change because the federal government, the bill that passed, has created an opening for some of these work requirements. I'm just flummoxed as to how the states think they have the ability to even tweak this at all, given the fact that Medicaid is, you know, enshrined into federal law and the Affordable Care Act. With the Medicaid expansion, states have the opportunity to opt in or not. It seems odd that they're trying to now try to work around it.

[Matt Binder]

Sure. So I guess important context is that states have been able to put their own twists to some Medicaid programs for a really long time. That's through something called a demonstration waiver. And so the idea behind those waivers is if there is a policy gray area, states can apply to the federal government and say, hey, we want to do something kind of wacky with this. We want to do something innovative with this and see if it works. What is interesting here is work requirements used to be a gray area. It wasn't outlined in Medicaid prior to this new law that's coming in, in place late next year.

[Emma Vigland]

But.

[Matt Binder]

But it's no longer a gray area. Right. The feds have said these are the rules, these are the base, this is the baseline, this is the floor. So I think states, the federal government did leave the door open for states to apply through these waivers to try to stand up programs sooner than the late 2026 deadline. I think that the big question we hit after that point is if states are trying to do their own twist to it, is the federal government going to view it as a policy gray area now that there are standards? We did contact the U.S. department of Health and Human Services to ask about this. And the summary is kind of we'll see as well, which is what we were hearing from a lot of sources. But I think the language that we were sent was something along the lines of we're analyzing to see how these state waivers are going to interact with our new federal standards. So again, a lot of question marks. I will say now that there are federal standards, those states that are trying to push ahead and stand them up sooner but are following the federal standards are probably less likely to face court issues or court challenges. But states that are going to step beyond like Arizona with the lifetime cap that they're considering or that they're seeking, they're going to be more open to litigation. And that was based on health policy law experts we spoke with for this story.

[Emma Vigland]

I'm a little bit shocked about Arizona. Don't they have a Democratic governor still? Katie Hobbs is still in power and they're looking at additional work requirements.

[Matt Binder]

State legislatures are wild. So I think you have to look at the whole mix in government.

[Emma Vigland]

Okay, fair enough. So you also had another piece where you spoke to somebody, a man who goes by James, in the piece, speaking about how with these work requirements and with this attack on Medicaid, it's going to be quite difficult for James to hold on to his health coverage. And there's a quote in your piece saying, I don't want to be a fraud, I don't want to die. Those shouldn't be the only two options because he's basically considering having to not be entirely truthful because otherwise he's going to lose some of his health coverage. Right. I mean, this is the bind that this is putting some people in.

[Matt Binder]

It's interesting, James experience. He's actually already not reporting accurately. And that is because Montana requires that if you fall outside of the range to qualify. So for people in our state, that means if you make more than 21,000 plus a year, you no longer qualify for Medicaid. And that's known as the coverage cliff. So James has already hit that. And part of the reason why James hit that is because Montana no longer requires eligibility or allows the eligibility to extend for a year. Instead, you have to report within 10 days if your coverage has changed. And he has a low wage job. That means that his hours change week to week and means he can bounce in and out of qualifying for coverage. So he's not reporting when he falls out of coverage. Out of qualifying for coverage. The federal rules mandate that if you are capable of work, you have to prove every six months that you are meeting the requirements to work. That is a shorter window than what some states are considering and what some states have in place right now. A lot of people are advocating folks who kind of study the safety net system say, hey, hey, coverage should be a window of a year. Once you qualify, you have it for a year so that you have time to adjust. If you do get a pay increase, the new federal standards mean that that window will be tighter, which means people will fall off that cliff sooner or could fall off that cliff sooner.

[Emma Vigland]

And there are a lot of people and I think James might be included in this who have to basically there's been reporting that they're saying no to promotions or to higher paying jobs because those jobs don't guarantee health care. And then you would fall make too much money to qualify for Medicaid. This is like a pervasive problem that existed even prior to this assault on the program.

[Matt Binder]

Yeah, definitely a long standing problem. James was an example where he initially said no to a pay increase and then realized he wasn't going to be able to save up enough money to afford rent in town. It's an expensive place to live and he was transitioning outside of an addiction treatment program that came with housing. And so he initially said hey, I don't want that dollarish wage increase because I'm scared to lose Medicaid. And then realized that meant he may not be able to find housing.

[Emma Vigland]

I just want to. There's this graph that I cite frequently on KFF about the number of people, the proportion of folks who are on Medicaid with what their it says work status and barriers to work among Medicaid adults. Here, this shows the proportion of people working full time. This is from data from two years ago, but 44% working full time, 20% working part time. And then these were, you know, excuses that are given or that you can file when you're, when you're applying for Medicaid, not working due to caregiving, illness or disability, school attendance. You see there that only 8% of that pool sites not working due to retirement, inability to find work or other reason. Everybody else is either working or caregiving, have a disability or illness or are going to school. So that 8% is apparently the group of people that are responsible for all this waste, fraud and abuse according to the federal government. But my understanding, and I'm wondering if it is for you on the ground is when we're talking about fraud or Medicaid fraud, it's usually on the provider side.

[Matt Binder]

Yes. And so there's actually a federal agency that is watching this and the cases of fraud that they've identified is on the provider side. Yeah, it's really hard to know how often that's actually happening with individual patients. But most often the system's really confusing. So researchers I spoke to about that idea have said more often people aren't tapping into the program when they are eligible because they don't know they're eligible. The system so confusing it's hard to kind of work within it to, to, to commit fraud.

[Emma Vigland]

And but, but James, not being entirely truthful if his income is higher than the threshold on. On one week, that would be what is. They would consider basically a fraudulent usage of the program, which is insanity, because this is like, how can you fraudulently try to maintain your health insurance? It's not like this is a cash payment. It's not like you can sell your Medicaid card to somebody else. This is somebody that is just trying to hold on to the health insurance that they have.

[Matt Binder]

James is a really interesting example because he. He is what. He's an example of someone who the system is working for, right? Like a year ago, his body was breaking down. He was really unhealthy. He was not able to keep steady work because of his reliance on alcohol and his addiction to alcohol. Now he has a steady job. He's going back to school to become a licensed addiction counselor. He. He is doing well. And he attributes that to his access to Medicaid and says if Medicaid goes away, he is scared. So he. He is interesting and that he is both. There. There are people who say there's no way to route an abuse. He's an example of someone who's breaking the rules, and he knows he's breaking the rules. At the same time, he is kind of the story of the hope for a program like Medicaid.

[Emma Vigland]

What do these work requirements look like in practice? Sorry, there's a dog in the hallway. What do these work requirements look like in practice? They clearly, I think, set up way more barriers to people accessing Medicaid. But, you know, I'm wondering, with this added paperwork requirements, you know, both from the federal level, but also now, these over a dozen states that you write about, what does that look like for people trying to get access to health care?

[Matt Binder]

So right now, the US has one state that has active work requirements, and that's Georgia. And those rules have been in place since 2023. I've had colleagues who have been following that for years. We have a coworker who's on the ground there who's really been tracking this. But what my colleagues have reported is that George's experience shows that implementing work requirements can be really costly for states, really confusing for enrollees or wannabe enrollees, and can also have ripple effects into other programs that state Medicaid agency staffers are also working in. So if. If someone's trying to tap into food assistance or staff assistance, they're often trying to reach the same people who are managing Medicaid and trying to answer whether or not people are meeting work requirements. And so We've seen with Georgia that they are actually, they're one of the states that have a waiver that had already gone to the federal government before these national standards were established that tries to roll back its program a little bit. Initially, Georgia wanted to do monthly checks on whether or not people qualify. The request that they have in place now and are still waiting to see if the feds say yes or no is to do that every year. So again, that's switching from month to month, which I don't believe the state ever actually implemented because that's a big administrative burden to annuals. Yeah, it's cost and time for states. And it was a colleague of mine, several colleagues were following this and had said at one point there was a report that Georgia's released that actually said they're having a really difficult time actually evaluating whether or not people are meeting the requirements, which of course is like the reason to do work requirements is to see whether or not people are meeting that bar.

[Emma Vigland]

Unless your true motivation is to keep more people from using the program. Right. I mean, like that. That's essentially what, what happens at the end of the day is when you create all of these barriers like you are, you just spoke about how there are so many people that don't even know that they qualify. Well, what happens to people who do know that they qualify, but they have this incredibly burdensome paperwork situation that might, you know, make it difficult or perhaps they're worried about, you know, constantly having to file paperwork or interact with the government in this way. Like it is designed to be confusing.

[Matt Binder]

Arkansas actually showed us, So I believe 2018 that Arkansas had stood up its work requirement program. And it was interesting. A judge initially deemed that that program was illegal, but before that happened, there were 18,000 people who lost coverage. And reporting from coworkers in my newsroom showed that. And reporting from a lot of place cases actually showed that a lot of people were just tangled in the system. They didn't know how to report their hours. They didn't know they were supposed to report their hours or they weren't able to reach help when they were trying to because there was a logjam for caseworkers.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, lastly, Catherine, what is your kind of estimate for the short term immediate impact of some of these work requirements? Like or your maybe not numerical estimate, but what do you think is the likely outcome with many of these states and what we're going to be seeing in the next coming months when it comes to people kind of being jettisoned off their health care?

[Matt Binder]

Sure. So I think that it is interesting states have until again, the end of next year to try to stand up these programs. I think we're going to see a number of states asking for extensions to that because in some cases, every state is coming from a different place and what they're tracking. So some places have systems that maybe could work to track this for a good starting point to track this, and others are starting from scratch. So I think we're going to see a lot of variety in whether or not states are ready to try to do this, whether or not they're trying to do it early or push it off a little bit longer. I think there's going to be, it's going to be similar to when states were doing Medicaid redeterminations. So after the emergency protections were lifted during the pandemic, you saw that the nation, every state, had to reevaluate whether or not people qualified for Medicaid. And that big administrative load on states meant that they were overstretched in a lot of places. And so you may see longer waits for people to access, caseworkers to talk through their application or the problems with Medicaid. You're going to see states trying to juggle an awful lot to catch up to what the standards are supposed to be.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, Catherine, I really appreciate your time today. You can check out the coverage of all of this stuff at KFF Health News. Really appreciate it. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

[Matt Binder]

Thanks for your interest. Bye.

[Emma Vigland]

Of course. Well, with that, folks, we're going to wrap up the free part of this program and head into the fun half. We will take your calls. We will read your IMs. This show relies on your support. Go to JoinTheMajorityReport.com please. You can support us that way. Keep us independent, keeping us thriving. And doing the show Monday through Friday every day covering this awful news cycle.

[Katherine Houghton]

Matt, finally we're allowed to talk about Sydney Sweeney in the fun house.

[Emma Vigland]

Look, I am a sick, sick person with pop culture. I enjoy it. I like dipping my toe in, but I am, I just, I don't understand why this, why anyone cares. Like this white blonde girl from Idaho is a Republican.

[Chris Smalls]

There's like so much I would love.

[Katherine Houghton]

To know about being a 21 year old.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, I guess. No, I know why people are interested. Look, she's, she's hot. Just leave it at that. Why do we have to care? Why do we care? Why do we care? Can't people just be hot and we just leave it alone? Great. She's that's it.

[Chris Smalls]

I think it boils all down to thumbnails on YouTube. I think Charlie Kirk.

[Emma Vigland]

Right.

[Chris Smalls]

Sydney Stage on his thumbnails.

[Emma Vigland]

Okay. Yes. I mean, that's why they will talk about the Chris Cuom. That's when we will talk about the story. Because it's actually funny to make fun of Chris Cuomo getting fooled by a deep fake of AOC talking about how hot Sydney Sweeney is, which is really.

[Sam Cedar]

Offered a tour, sushi and poker with the boys.

[Emma Vigland]

Like, like we get it. You guys want AOC and Sydney Sweeney to make out. And that's basically what this is about. And I have to engage in. This is apparently politics. I feel like I'm in middle school.

[Katherine Houghton]

Look at them in conflict.

[Chris Smalls]

Meanwhile, if you make $21,000 in a dollar, you don't get health care. We got to talk about Sydney Sweden.

[Katherine Houghton]

What did they. What if they physically fought?

[Emma Vigland]

Right. That's what this is. Basically I'm at like a 14 year old boy sleepover, but apparently it's congress or something.

[Chris Smalls]

Try 65 year olds.

[Emma Vigland]

Join the MajorityReport.com Matt, what's happening on Left Reckoning?

[Katherine Houghton]

Yeah, we had Kylie Chung on about her new book coercion and the sort of synergy between abortion restriction and abusers domestically and at the state level. Great interview. Great book. You know, recounting the horrors that we've been living through since the Roe ver leaving the Roe vs. Wade era into this post Dobbs era. Kylie covers as good as anybody else. So check that out.

[Emma Vigland]

Patreon.com leftreckoning all right, well, I guess we'll see Matt Bender and Brandon Sutton in the fun half.

[Chris Smalls]

People are testing you today.

[Emma Vigland]

I know. Yeah, we're having some tech technique. We had some technical issues, but we will survive. Yeah, I guess we'll just watch Harry Emden. See you in the funhab.

[Chris Smalls]

Okay, Emma, please.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority report.

[Chris Smalls]

Wait, look, Sam is unpopular.

[Sam Cedar]

I do deserve a vacation at Disney.

[Emma Vigland]

Disney World.

[Sam Cedar]

So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show.

[Emma Vigland]

It is Thursday. I think you need to remember.

[Katherine Houghton]

For Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

Yes, boys.

[Emma Vigland]

No, no, no.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm gonna pause you right there. Wait, what? You can't encourage Emma to live like this. And I'll tell you why. Who was offered a tour? Sushi and poker with boys. Tour sushi and poker with boys. Who was offered a tour? Yasushi and poker with the boys. Sushi and poker.

[Emma Vigland]

Tim's upset.

[Sam Cedar]

Twerk. Sushi and poker with the boys. It was offered with twerk Sushi. And that's what we call biz. Twerk, sushi and bulker with two boys.

[Emma Vigland]

Right.

[Sam Cedar]

Twerk sushi and we're gonna get demonetized. I just think that what you did to Tim Pool was mean.

[Emma Vigland]

Free speech.

[Sam Cedar]

That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about him. I think you're responsible.

[Emma Vigland]

I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.

[Sam Cedar]

Sushi and poker with the boys. Oh, my God.

[Eugene Robinson]

Wow.

[Sam Cedar]

Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered with tour. Sushi and poker with the boys.

[Chris Smalls]

Logic.

[Sam Cedar]

Sushi and poker with the boys. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a kid. Twerk. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Add this debate 7,000 times kind. I'm losing my mind. Some people just don't understand. So I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but, like, I absolutely think the US should be providing me with a wife and kids.

[Emma Vigland]

That's not what we're talking about here. All right?

[Sam Cedar]

It's not a fun job. That's a real thing. That's got a real thing. Real thing. Willie Walker. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. That's a real thing that's offered. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. That's a real thing. I think he might be blowing it out of proportion. Real thing. That's. Boy, is that offer. That's a real thing. That's poker. Let's go, Joey. Sushi and poker.

[Katherine Houghton]

Take it easy.

[Sam Cedar]

Don't work. Sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker. Sushi. You don't have a clue as to what's going on. Live YouTube.

[Emma Vigland]

Sam has quite the weight of the.

[Sam Cedar]

World on his shoulders.

[Emma Vigland]

Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore.

[Sam Cedar]

Anymore.

[Emma Vigland]

It was so much easier when the majority report was just you.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's change the subject. Rangers and Knicks are doing great. Matthew, shut it up.

[Emma Vigland]

You don't want people saying reckless things on your program.

[Sam Cedar]

That's one of the most difficult parts about this show.

[Emma Vigland]

This is the Pro Killing podcast.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury the hatchet.

[Emma Vigland]

Left his best Violet.

[Sam Cedar]

Twerk. Don't be foolish and don't tweet at me. And don't ditch the way Emma has cucked all of these people. Love it.

[Emma Vigland]

That's where my heart is. So I wrote my honors thesis about it.

[Sam Cedar]

She wrote an honest thesis is I guess I should hand the main mic to you now. You are to the right of me.

[Emma Vigland]

On we already found Israel. Dude. Are you against us?

[Sam Cedar]

That's a tougher question I haven't answered. Incredible theme song.

[Emma Vigland]

Hi Bumbler.

[Chris Smalls]

Emma Viand Absolutely one of my favorite people, actually. Not just in the game like period.