3558 - Ice, Gaza, DC Takeover & Building Power w/ Rep Maxwell Frost

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Majority Report with Sam Seder
Episode 3558 - "Ice, Gaza, DC Takeover & Building Power w/ Rep Maxwell Frost"
Release Date: August 12, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 3558 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder, host Sam Seder engages in an in-depth conversation with Congressman Maxwell Frost from Florida's 10th district. The discussion spans a range of pressing political issues, including the federalization of the D.C. police force, immigration enforcement, Democratic Party dynamics, and U.S. policy on the Israel-Palestine conflict. This summary encapsulates the key points, insights, and conclusions drawn during the episode, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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1. Federalization of D.C. Police and Crime Statistics

Overview:
The episode opens with Sam Seder addressing recent actions taken by former President Donald Trump to federalize the Washington D.C. police force amidst concerns over civil unrest. This move is juxtaposed against statistical data indicating a significant decrease in crime rates in major cities.

Key Discussions:

• Trump’s Federalization Move:
  Sam Seder questions Trump's motivation behind deploying FBI agents and the National Guard to patrol D.C., especially when crime statistics suggest a downward trend.

  Sam Seder [06:03]: "In Washington, D.C., there is no crime problem, at least relative to the past half a century... crime is down another 26%... So there couldn't be less of an excuse to add cops to the beat in D.C."

• Crime Statistics:
  Representative Frost provides context by highlighting the substantial reduction in crime rates over recent years.

  Maxwell Frost [08:22]: "In the first eight months of 2025, crime is down another 26% from the 30-year low."

• Critique of Federalization:
  The conversation critiques the rationale behind increasing law enforcement presence in D.C., suggesting it may be a political maneuver rather than a response to actual crime rates.

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2. Immigration Enforcement and ICE Detention Facilities in Florida

Overview:
A significant portion of the discussion delves into the conditions and legal challenges surrounding ICE detention centers in Florida, particularly focusing on the infamous "Alligator Alcatraz" facility.

Key Discussions:

• Inspection of Detention Facilities:
  Representative Frost recounts a recent visit to an ICE facility, describing deplorable conditions and systemic abuses.

  Maxwell Frost [28:41]: "We worked with Immigrants Are Welcome Here... The pictures were the most important part... We saw horrible conditions."

• Legal Challenges and Grassroots Activism:
  Frost emphasizes the role of grassroots organizations and legal aid in challenging the legality and ethics of ICE operations.

  Maxwell Frost [30:11]: "The Miccosukee tribe filed a lawsuit asserting the facility didn’t go through the NEPA process... The judge mandated a halt to construction."

• Systemic Issues and Potential Exploitation:
  Concerns are raised about the potential for ICE facilities to be repurposed for other state emergencies, such as hurricane response, highlighting the flexibility in misuse of funding.

  Maxwell Frost [37:29]: "They're spending $450 million on this to kidnap and traffic people... They can't start a hurricane response without legislative approval."

• Impact on Communities and Policy Implications:
  Frost discusses the broader implications of ICE enforcement on local communities, economic stability, and civil rights.

  Maxwell Frost [36:23]: "We're trying to track individuals who have fallen off the radar... The facility is supposed to hold people for up to two weeks, but abuses extend their stay."

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3. Democratic Party Dynamics on Immigration and Building Power

Overview:
The conversation shifts to internal dynamics within the Democratic Party, particularly focusing on challenges and strategies in advocating for immigration reform and civil rights.

Key Discussions:

• Representing Constituents vs. Party Labels:
  Frost reflects on his approach to representing his district without being pigeonholed by generational labels.

  Maxwell Frost [19:16]: "I didn't want to be seen as the Gen Z representative... I represent Florida's 10th congressional district."

• Gun Control Advocacy as a Model for Immigration Reform:
  Drawing parallels between successful gun control movements and potential strategies for immigration reform, Frost highlights the importance of legislative tools and executive actions.

  Maxwell Frost [22:14]: "The Office of Gun Violence Prevention was established through persistent advocacy... This model can be applied to immigration."

• Building Internal Support and Leveraging Polls:
  Emphasizing the need for the Democratic caucus to capitalize on favorable polls and constituent support to drive legislative change.

  Maxwell Frost [24:53]: "We're actually more powerful than the NRA now... We're utilizing polls to push our agenda forward."

• Organizational Challenges and the Overton Window:
  The discussion touches on the strategic use of legislation and public pressure to shift the Overton Window, making progressive policies more mainstream.

  Maxwell Frost [10:32]: "We're expanding the Overton window... This is just the beginning."

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4. U.S. Policy on the Israel-Palestine Conflict

Overview:
Focusing on international relations, the episode addresses the Democratic Party's stance on the Israel-Palestine conflict, including the feasibility of a two-state solution and internal party challenges.

Key Discussions:

• Two-State Solution Debate:
  Frost critiques the sincerity of the U.S.'s commitment to a two-state solution, highlighting inconsistency between stated policy and actual support.

  Maxwell Frost [67:42]: "Our government is supposed to support a two-state solution, but on the ground, without a Palestinian state, it's impossible."

• Democratic Caucus Responses:
  The conversation examines how Democratic leaders respond to calls for recognizing a Palestinian state, including resistance and political maneuvering.

  Maxwell Frost [68:30]: "When asked about a Palestinian state, responses are either non-committal or dismissive, undermining genuine efforts."

• Public Opinion and Legislative Action:
  With only 8% of Democrats approving of Israel's military action in Gaza, Frost discusses the disconnect between public sentiment and party leadership.

  Emma Vigland [69:29]: "It's revealing that only 8% of Democrats approve of Israel's military action in Gaza, yet the caucus struggles to align with this stance."

• Activism and Policy Proposals:
  Introducing initiatives like the "Block the Bombs Act," Frost highlights growing legislative support within Congress to address human rights concerns.

  Maxwell Frost [54:00]: "Reb Deli Ramirez's 'Block the Bombs Act' has gained new sponsors, indicating shifting legislative priorities."

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5. Government Oversight and Integrity Issues

Overview:
The episode addresses concerns regarding government oversight, specifically referencing the firing of IRS official Billy Long and implications for data integrity.

Key Discussions:

• Firing of Billy Long:
  Frost criticizes the abrupt removal of IRS data officials, citing it as a tactic to undermine governmental transparency and data reliability.

  Maxwell Frost [70:41]: "Billy Long was fired for withholding IRS data intended to track immigrants, signaling a move to test loyalty rather than uphold integrity."

• Impact on Legislative Functions:
  The dismissal affects critical services like the Congressional Research Service, which provides essential data for legislation.

  Maxwell Frost [71:08]: "The Congressional Research Service is under the Library of Congress and is foundational for crafting informed legislation. Undermining this compromises our legislative effectiveness."

• Need for Separation of Powers:
  Frost advocates for de-coupling objective data offices from the executive branch to prevent misuse and ensure unbiased information flow.

  Maxwell Frost [71:53]: "We need to separate offices that provide objective data from the executive branch to safeguard their integrity."

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6. Economic Implications and Tourism Slump in Florida

Overview:
Lastly, the discussion touches upon the economic downturn in Florida, specifically the decline in tourism attributed to political instability and immigration policies.

Key Discussions:

• Decline in Tourism:
  Representative Frost observes a noticeable downturn in tourism affecting major centers like Las Vegas and Orlando, driven by negative perceptions of political leadership.

  Maxwell Frost [72:12]: "Florida's tourism is suffering due to economic instability, tariffs, and aggressive immigration policies, leading to decreased international and domestic visitors."

• Economic Stability and Policy Impact:
  The conversation links economic challenges to broader political strategies, suggesting that divisive policies harm Florida's economic health.

  Maxwell Frost [72:19]: "Economic instability, driven by tariffs and immigration issues, is discouraging tourists from visiting key locations like Orlando."

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Conclusion

Episode 3558 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder provides a comprehensive exploration of current political challenges and strategies within the Democratic Party, contextualized through Congressman Maxwell Frost's experiences and insights. From critiquing federalization efforts in D.C. to addressing systemic issues in immigration enforcement and Democratic Party dynamics, the conversation underscores the complexities of modern American politics. Additionally, international concerns like the Israel-Palestine conflict and internal governmental integrity issues further highlight the multifaceted landscape lawmakers navigate. Ultimately, Representative Frost emphasizes the importance of grassroots activism, transparent governance, and strategic legislative action in effecting meaningful change.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sam Seder [06:03]: "In Washington, D.C., there is no crime problem, at least relative to the past half a century... crime is down another 26%... So there couldn't be less of an excuse to add cops to the beat in D.C."

• Maxwell Frost [19:16]: "I didn't want to be seen as the Gen Z representative... I represent Florida's 10th congressional district."

• Maxwell Frost [28:41]: "We worked with Immigrants Are Welcome Here... The pictures were the most important part... We saw horrible conditions."

• Maxwell Frost [67:42]: "Our government is supposed to support a two-state solution, but on the ground, without a Palestinian state, it's impossible."

• Maxwell Frost [71:08]: "The Congressional Research Service is under the Library of Congress and is foundational for crafting informed legislation. Undermining this compromises our legislative effectiveness."

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This summary aims to provide a clear and detailed overview of the podcast episode, capturing the essence of the discussions and the perspectives shared by Congressman Maxwell Frost.

Transcript

[Emma Vigland]

You are listening to a free version of the Majority Report. Support this [e-mail] and get an extra hour of content daily.

[Sam Seder]

The Majority Report with Sam Seder. It is Tuesday, August 12, 2025. My name is Sam Seder. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today, Congressman Maxwell Frost from Florida's 10th district in studio. Also on the program today, Trump sends the feds to the streets of D.C. while the Pentagon's National Guard plan is a reaction force for civil unrest. Also on the program today, inflation numbers show core inflation now up above 3%. Brian, drop the music just a little. Meanwhile, Trump nominates an unqualified crony, E.J. and Tony, to head the Bureau of Labor Statistics, soon to be named the Bureau of Fake Labor Statistics. And ladies and gentlemen, it's Taco Tuesday as Trump extends the China tariff deadline by three more months.

[Emma Vigland]

So it's semi, semi, semi, firm when we get to soft deadlines.

[Sam Seder]

So soft. Meanwhile, Sherrod Brown to run for Ohio Senate in 2026. Al Jazeera reforms, commitment to Gaza coverage despite Israeli's journalist assassination program heroes. CBO confirms Trump's ugly bill takes from the poor to give to the rich, literally pulling $1200 from the lowest income 10% in the country. Trump says he and Putin will discuss Ukraine future borders. No word as to whether Zelensky will be invited. And Missouri workers are dealing with the Republicans repeal of paid sick leave law. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. It is Taco Tuesday or News Day Tuesday.

[Emma Vigland]

Taco Tuesday makes me want to run out and grab a taco.

[Sam Seder]

Yes, well, that's not, I mean, it's not literally tacos.

[Emma Vigland]

I understand.

[Sam Seder]

Trump always chickens out. And we are now 90 days, I think it's going to be August, September, October, November 10th or 11th or 12th will be the new deadline for Trump to really hand it to China. Meanwhile, core inflation ticks up again. We're up above 3%. Unclear what the Fed is going to do with this type of stuff because as numbers, as job numbers fall, which they have fallen dramatically, the Fed would normally cut rates. However, as core inflation ticks up, the Fed would normally not cut rates.

[Emma Vigland]

And tariffs are inflationary in and of themselves, let alone, you know, the freezing of the economy that Trump is engendering by not being decisive at all, slowing growth even without implementing these tariffs, which would already be Inflationary.

[Sam Seder]

Yep. So, you know, this is, there is this growing mounting concern for stagflation, which we haven't seen in, I don't know, some 40 years maybe. But of course, we'll be talking more about that in the weeks and months, maybe years to come. We shall see. In the meantime, Donald Trump has, and it's really quite unclear, and we will ask the Congressman about this when he gets here, but what has motivated Donald Trump's decision to essentially federalize the police force in D.C. he has taken over the Washington D.C. police force. Statutorily, he can do this for a few days and then extend it to 30 days. After that, it is unclear. And it appears that he would need congressional approval. As of now, you have FBI agents. 120 of them have been assigned to nighttime patrol duties. They are now nighttime beat cops. And I'm sure FBI agents are trained. I don't know how much experience they have walking the beat, but I'd be pretty bummed if I went through that whole thing at Quantico or whatever it is and then ended up I got the night shift doing beat cop work.

[Emma Vigland]

Doing big balls protection rackets because he got apparently beat up by two teenagers that were calling him not so big balls.

[Maxwell Frost]

And.

[Sam Seder]

Let'S be clear, in Washington, D.C. there is no crime problem, at least relative to, to the past, I don't know, half a century. But there is some evidence that there's more crime than we can understand.

[Emma Vigland]

Is it data?

[Sam Seder]

That's funny. No. Data sometimes lies. What does not lie is where you get your coffee.

[Brian]

Liam Bryant, back to you guys.

[Sam Seder]

Mark, the dynamic was so fascinating yesterday because you have the mayor come out and go, well, crime is down. I don't know why he's doing this. Got a pandemic mindset. But almost everyone in the press room is living in Washington or the surrounding areas, so you don't need to see a bar graph or a pie chart. Do you get the sense that no matter your proclivity or what you thought of the president, the people in that room know there's a problem with crime in that city regardless of what stat is out there?

[Brian]

Brian, I couldn't agree with you more because statistics don't tell the entire story. And obviously, if you're a victim of crime or if you know somebody who is, it matters a much bigger deal to you as opposed to just seeing something on a bar. And you asked a question about the reporters. I'll tell you, I went to the Starbucks yesterday before going to the White House. I asked this Barista. She's got a four year old boy. She's out there every day at five in the morning working her butt off. I said, what do you think about the National Guard coming? She goes, thank God. They've got to get this city under control because she deals with the homeless in the store, she's got to deal with the crime. In Anacostia, D.C. residents, yes, they are aware that this is going to be a huge political fight, but there is absolutely a crime problem in the nation's economy.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

If you live in a neighborhood, you just want, you want safety, you don't.

[Sam Seder]

Care how it's done. So Donald Trump said that he's in invoking this under section seven. Okay. Now that barista notwithstanding, crime is literally in 2024. In New York City, crime was down at a 30 year low.

[Emma Vigland]

You mean Washington D.C. washington D.C. yeah.

[Sam Seder]

What did I say? New York city in Washington D.C. crime was at a 30 year low in 2024. Maybe it's ticked up a little bit and that's why Trump wants to come lock in that 2020 for 30 years. 1995, the numbers in terms of crime year over year. So in other words, the first eight months of 2024 compared to the first eight months of 2025, crime is down another 26%. So from the 30 year low, it is now 26% less.

[Emma Vigland]

Right.

[Sam Seder]

I mean, there couldn't be less of an excuse to, I mean, never mind like adding cops to the beat in D.C. adding FBI agents and the National Guard. And frankly, like if they're so worried about. It does not matter. We can have the military come in and provide policing or security for a city or for those folks on Fox and Friends. I would like to see how Ashley Einhardt or whatever her name is.

[Emma Vigland]

Ainsley Earhart.

[Sam Seder]

Ainsley Earhart and Sean Hannity would enjoy having, you know, I don't know, like a small platoo in their living. He probably has one.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, no, they are out on Long Island. Well, they're out on Long Island. Did they move to Florida? Well, as I'm saying, it's probably five months and like 30 days on Long island and six months and one day down in Florida. So forgive me if I'm not necessarily convinced that Ainsley Earhart and known subway rider Brian Kilmeade have a good sense of how crime is going in urban spaces. It's just an old racist trope that they're deploying. That's all it is. And Trump got his political start with racist urban crime tropes. So full circle here and know that.

[Sam Seder]

The only reason for them to be doing this at this stage is basically again to expand the so called Overton window as to what becomes normalized, what becomes allowed, what becomes less shocking. And this is just the beginning as well. I mean, I guess it's really chapter two, after California, you put those, the military in there, even if you keep them in the barracks, you've basically set the tone of what becomes doable. In a moment, we're going to be talking to Congressman Maxwell frost from Florida's 10th district in studio. We've been cleaning up a little bit around here, but first a couple of words from our sponsors. ExpressVPN is like tinted windows for your Internet connection. You can see out, but they can't see in. Wouldn't you want the same privacy online? Yes, of course you would. All traffic flows through their servers, so ISPs, they know every single website you visit. And in the US ISPs are legally allowed to sell that information to advertisers. ExpressVPN reroutes 100% of your traffic through secure encrypted servers, so your ISP can't see your browsing history. Thanks to ExpressVPN for sponsoring this episode and protecting myself. Online, it's super easy to use. Fire up the app. One click, you're protected. I use this when I go to air. Well, I mean I always, I have it running all the time, but I make sure that like I check my phone. When you get on any type of public WI fi, you are really exposed and apparently even like your home WI fi, like somebody who's. But I am just adamant when I'm out and about to use my VPN and then we use it at home and I think Saul frankly probably uses it to find material that you know from other countries and whatnot. I have no idea what he's doing on there, frankly. But the good news, ExpressVPN hides your IP address and it makes it super easy to do. So it's super secure. It take a hacker with a super cuter computer over a billion years to get past ExpressVPN's encryption. Again, super easy to use. You can use it on your phone, your laptop, your tablets more. You can stay private on the go or in your household. Protect your online privacy today by visiting expressvpn.com Majority that's E X P R essvpn.com Majority to find out how you can get up to four extra months free expressvpn.com/majority. Also, we'll put the link obviously in the podcast, in the YouTube descriptions. It's somebody's birthday. Sunset Lake. Yes. Our friends at Sunset, like someday are celebrating their birthday this month. And guess what? You're invited. They give presents. My uncle, actually, my great uncle, used to do this. He lived till 104 on his birthday. He would give presents.

[Emma Vigland]

That's trying to embarrass the rest of us.

[Sam Seder]

Well, the point is you want people to be invested. No, you want people to be invested in you being alive.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, okay, gotcha. It's an investment.

[Sam Seder]

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[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

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[Emma Vigland]

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[Sam Seder]

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[Maxwell Frost]

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[Sam Seder]

Yeah, for me. No, I feel it. But they have all sorts of products. They got great business practices, their movement partners. They've donated tens of thousands of dollars to carceral reform, refugee resettlement, strike relief funds, Planned Parenthood give directly. Check them out. Head over to sunsetlake sabade.com remember to use the code BIRTHDAY for 25% off site wide. The sale ends at midnight on August 17th. It's about five days from now. See their site for terms and conditions. We'll put the link in the podcast and YouTube description for. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, joining us in studio, Congressman Maxwell frost of Florida's 10th district. We'll be back in just a moment. We are back. Sam Cedar on the Majority Report here with Emma Vigland joining us in studio. I think this is the first congressional person we've ever had in the studio.

[Maxwell Frost]

Oh, really?

[Sam Seder]

Yes. Congressman Maxwell frost from Florida's 10th district. We got your arm. Doesn't extend that far through that way.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, I know. It's okay. Well, we're in different places.

[Sam Seder]

Thanks for joining us. Exactly. We're all, we're all here but we wanted to. Why we, we could take that. It doesn't matter.

[Emma Vigland]

We're figuring it out. Yeah, we're sans matter other Matt is.

[Sam Seder]

Out, out today having come back from the conference. Welcome here, Congressman. We got obviously a lot to talk about in Florida and we've, we, we played a lot of clips of yours particularly in the wake of all the alligator so called alligator Alcatraz. We're going to get to that. I have a, I have a general question for you that actually I wouldn't have thought to think, but somebody asked me this the other day about my job and so I wanted to start here with yours. Obviously as a Congressman, your, your job is to, is to represent your, your district, service your constituents. What do you, what about your personal sort of like idea of what your job is? Do you feel differentiates you from a lot of like let's say generic Democrats?

[Maxwell Frost]

Hmm. You know, that's interesting. I, I think the first thing, and this is more than just Democrats and politicians in general is we tend to gravitate towards our thing, you know, the thing that will help you raise money. The thing that people talk about in the media like whatever your thing is. And for me obviously coming in it was, you know, being the youngest member, the first Gen Z, all this stuff. And it's actually a title that I really kind of pushed against because first and foremost I represent the people in my district and I didn't want to be like seen as like the Gen Z representative. I wanted to seen as the Florida's 10th congressional district representative because I knew in a sense a lot of people thought they were like, you know, it is something to be proud of, but it was also a way to kind of marginalize me and the work that I need to do for my district in my state in this moment in the South. And I think that's really important. I come from grassroots organizing and advocacy. So that's kind of the lens I bring to this work. And I ran for a year and a half. I spent a lot of that year and a half talking to myself and trying to reconcile. I'm going into an institution that's done a lot of harm, that is going to continue to do a lot of harm, but that I think can also do a lot of good and has done good and in that kind of use a word that a lot of people hate, but kind of in that sense I'm kind of an institutionalist Right. And to me, that doesn't mean, like, oh, the institution can do no harm. We have to follow the rules like they've always been, because it's happened to me. What that means is I recognize I'm going into a place that even if I wasn't there, they would continue without me. And so I believe me being in the institution will help the goal that I've set for my life, which is like, helping people through music and politics. That's my goal from actual Frost. And so either way, I see myself as like, a part of a bigger puzzle. I don't see myself as like a, you know, a singular leader or anything like that. And I don't think any really politician should. And I still see myself as an organizer. I'm just organizing in a different place. And honestly, getting to Congress and sitting on the House floor and watching people talk to each other, I mean, it's all organizing. Like, people disparaged me so much in my primary for being just an organizer, and I get to this job, and it's a bunch of organizing. And so.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, you also got your start in advocacy for gun control. And that's an issue that I think is just so relevant for people to understand American politics, because you'll see the poll numbers on that issue, and it's overwhelmingly, Americans approve of that kind of thing. But what's been your experience of the limits of even kind of a more popularist mindset on that front? Because there are a lot of things that they're popular, but people aren't motivated to go vote for them, or they don't have a lobbying group behind them that's going to back up their interests. Like, that is, in my view, one of the glaring limits of democracy. We'll talk about our Israel policy in a little bit as well. But these are all things that I think broadly have Democratic support. Yeah, but you can't get a constituency in Congress to make change.

[Maxwell Frost]

I would say. Actually, I think the gun violence prevention movement brings us a little hope in this. In this part. And I've been in this movement for over a decade now, since I was 15, heavily involved, and I spent kind of the first eight years going to D.C. every year speaking with politicians, getting lied to, nothing happening. I mean, we know the bipartisan Safer Communities act was the first piece of gun violence legislation at the federal level in 30 years. And a big reason is something we used to always say in the movement was, the NRA works out of the West Wing. Right. And we used to say that whether it's a Democrat or Republican. And people forget 15 years ago, an assault weapons ban was not the consensus position for Democrats. In fact, like half the Democrats in Congress were against it. It was seen as like a far left, radical, whatever. Now it's the consensus position for a Democrat. And it's kind of a litmus test for a lot of Democrats in primaries. And that happened with sustained influence and power building in districts in D.C. across the country and getting to a place where now this is part of the platform. And I think it really shows a way forward. An example I'll give is the Office of Gun Violence Prevention. It was my first bill I introduced with Senator Chris Murphy and I knew it wouldn't pass. When a Republican Congress like it has the word gun violence in it, it's not going to get through. But as an organizer, I was like, but it's a tool, right? And like, how can we use this tool to push President Biden to just do the damn thing through executive order? And so we, you know, introduced the bill, we worked with outside organizations and figured out how can we do this push, Pull me on the inside, everyone else on the outside to get to a place where we get this. And like six months later, we got the call, he made the office and we didn't celebrate yet. We're like, who's running it? And it was a bunch of gun violence survivors from our movement. People like Rob Wilcox and Greg Jackson, survivors of gun violence who really that office, it's like the best kept, one of the best kept secrets of the Biden administration. They did really good work there. That wasn't just about regulating guns, which is important, but it was about funding community violence intervention. How do we end gun violence outside of the carceral system? Because if locking people up ended gun violence, we'd have zero gun violence in this country because we lock up the most people. So I think actually our movement gives some wins. And some people might disagree with me, but I think we're actually more powerful than the NRA now, obviously because of the way power stacked in D.C. not so much, but like in terms of when the Democrats in power, the NRA has almost no say. And that wasn't the case just like 15 years ago.

[Sam Seder]

What's the dynamic there where you pass or you introduce a bill that fails and it moves the president to executive action?

[Maxwell Frost]

Well, it's interesting. It's not that it fails, it's just it doesn't go anywhere. Right. There's like a. Most bills that are introduced just don't. They don't get a hearing, they don't get on the floor. It's just like in the ether. But you can use it as an organizing tool. So when we, when I introduce that bill, it's my first bill, so we make a big deal out of it, we bring the movement together to the Hill, we do the press conference, but then we use that bill as an organizing opportunity. Ask other members of Congress to get on it. Ask other members of Congress to reach out to the White House and say we want this as an executive order. Anytime I'm doing something with the White House, I'm bringing it up, I'm bringing up the bill. And the end of the conversation is always. Also, I know this isn't going to get a hearing this Congress. Right. We have McCarthy or Johnson or, you know, but you can do it. And every day we don't do it, we're losing lives.

[Sam Seder]

So it just becomes a tangible representation that you can push, you can point to, as opposed to just an idea or a notion that's floating.

[Maxwell Frost]

Exactly. And this is something I had been working on three years before I even got the Congress. When I was the organizing director at March for Our Lives, we put together a coalition and we asked President Biden when he first got in, to do this. So when I got to Congress, you know, I asked myself and a lot of my friends in the gun violence movement, like, what can I do now that I couldn't do before? Introduce legislation and use that as our tool to like add some fire in this ask that we've had for years. We've had the ask for years, but how do we regen the ask? And then we ended up getting it.

[Sam Seder]

And it creates an idea that it actually is becoming more concrete just because it's been codified in a bill, even if it's not gonna go anywhere.

[Maxwell Frost]

Exactly, exactly. Now we're still fine for the bill because obviously Trump gets in, he took away the office. Right. So like executive orders are good. Cuz they happen quick, but they're not good because it can just be taken away by any future president. So we're still.

[Sam Seder]

Now it becomes something in office that Trump got rid of and that becomes another leverage point.

[Maxwell Frost]

Exactly.

[Sam Seder]

To, you know, we'll see.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah. Because gun violence has gone down the most in the last three years than it has in the history of our country. This year we're on track. We believe when the numbers come out, we're actually gonna be 20% less than last year. And it's important to start talking about this now because when the Numbers come out, Trump is gonna say, well it's cuz I deported everybody I deported, you know, he's gonna take credit for it. And we have to point to the fact that no, this started three years ago, right? Like gun violence, homicides by gun in Boston, 40% reduction. Chicago, I think they're at 23%. Baltimore, same thing. New York, same thing. So like this stuff works.

[Sam Seder]

DC and so this becomes a predicate for sending in the national. Because of course, obviously as soon as crime goes down, as gun violence goes down, you need to militarize the occupied police department. I want to talk about that, but first let's get to something that's a little bit more local for you to some extent. And that's the so called alligator Alcatraz. I don't know, it's a little bit cutesy of a name, it seems to me. But, but where are we in terms of like getting information out of this facility? It feels like these both what we're seeing in terms of like so called immigration enforcement, including the detainment centers are in this sort of legal netherworld where we don't have the same level of scrutiny or accountability, where it's almost like sort of like extra constitutional. And now there are reports like we don't know if it's conceivable Covid could be running rampant through these. I mean, give us your like I guess an update as to what we know about what's going on there and how much access we have and what kind of accountability, etc.

[Maxwell Frost]

So about now it's been like a month. Florida Democratic delegation said we're gonna go do a surprise visit. The surprise visits are the only ones you should ever really do because you see things for how they are. Somehow word got to the state that we were coming. I guess it leaked or something and we got an invitation to tour it the same day, the same time. We were already going to go. So we debated whether or not we were going to go. We decided let's, let's just go because it might be our only opportunity. You know, even though legally they have to let us in, we know they're breaking the law across the country. So we decided to go in. And my thing is like, even if they have time to clean it up, a clean cage is still a cage. Like, I mean, you know, to me the conditions are still abhorrent. And so we went in, we prepared. I had like a binder this thick of questions, of things to look out for and of pictures and stories of my constituents that are in there. So we spent time working with legal aid organizations and this coalition in Central Florida called Immigrants Are Welcome Here. They're really fighting against what's going on with ICE and alerting people to what's going on. We worked with them to get information on people, and the pictures were the most important part. So, like, if I saw someone or I could hold up a photo to, like, one of the cages. Have you seen this guy? They didn't let us talk to anybody, which is not normal. Usually when I go to an ICE facility, I can speak with people. I come with the disclaimer forms or whatever that they have to sign, and they usually let me speak with people. They only speak with people, and people can go. You know, I've spent a lot of videos online talking about what I saw. Horrible conditions.

[Emma Vigland]

We played some of what you say.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, so we're at now. So I'll skip ahead. Where we're at now is we actually. There was just. We got a win recently that's really important, and it's. We really owe this all to the Miccosukee tribe, which they're the ones. They're very deeply impacted by the environmental issues here, and they filed a lawsuit that has to do with them not going through the NEPA process for the facility. And what they said was, look, this is a federal detention facility. If it's a federal facility, you have to go through a NEPA process. You didn't go through it. And what the state was saying was, no, this is a state facility. It's not a federal facility. I go in there and I'm asking these questions, and every question, the guy running it looks at me and goes, well, ICE is calling the shots. Like they're telling us what to do. They're. You know, they're really running the whole thing. We set it up, which is them saying it's a federal facility that's operated by the state government, which is a weird, you know, legal thing.

[Emma Vigland]

That's a shell game.

[Maxwell Frost]

It's a shell game. And you know what's funny? Or how does.

[Sam Seder]

But how does. What is even the justification of a state enforcing immigration laws?

[Maxwell Frost]

There is no justification. Here comes the other part. And this is so. The way they did this is so like that. But the reason they did it this way is to avoid being held accountable. They have the Florida Office of Emergency Management running the place. Now, you might be asking, why isn't Department of Corrections or the National Guard or whatever. The reason the governor did that is because they're the only Department in the state that has the ability to spend up to $500 million without going to the legislature in a case of an emergency, which makes sense. We have a hurricane coming, right. We want those guys to be able to spend as much money as they need to spend to keep our people safe. They're abusing that, and they're spending $450 million on this thing to, you know, kidnap and traffic people. And the other issue, what happens if.

[Sam Seder]

You need $75 million worth?

[Maxwell Frost]

They have to go to the state. They have to go to the legislature, which means tomorrow a hurricane could pop up in the Gulf. It's two days out. They really can't start. They're going to have to go back to the legislature and ask for more money, which means more people are going to die. So it's a complete cluster that's going to impact all Floridians and obviously impacting the people in there. But either way, the Miccosukee tribe got to win. And they. The judge made a decision where they have to stop constructing the facility. They have a lot of plans to continue to get, like, four or five thousand beds. They have to stop. We want the thing shut down, but that's a really good win, and that's going to help us hopefully, get it eventually shut down. Our trip in there helped us prove that it's a federal facility. And actually, one of my state representatives in Orlando, Rep. Ana Scamani, she went in with me, she filed a declaration, was actually a witness in the courtroom on this as well. And then I read this into the Congressional Record so they could use it in the case. So we're all working together to figure out the best way to attack this from the legal point of view.

[Sam Seder]

Is there a legal challenge just to define the relationship between the state and.

[Maxwell Frost]

The facility that would come out of this.

[Sam Seder]

That would come out of this.

[Maxwell Frost]

The only other person that could really sue, that we were encouraging to sue was Miami Dade county, because this was their land that was taken from them. But they. I don't. They decided not to, but they haven't yet, and I'm really hoping that they do because they have an even better legal standing than the tribe does for bringing something forward and to help us. And honestly, these legal cases are one of our only. You know, and there are.

[Sam Seder]

There is no other. Nobody's figured out any other type of standing to challenge this dynamic because this is going to be. This is like the map. Right. For the rest of the country.

[Maxwell Frost]

Exactly. We've talked a lot about, you know, Immigrants within the facility have standing. But the issue is there's no resource. There's no resources. And the problem is there's. There's a lot of ways we could sue on this, on other things as well. But a lot of people don't understand that there's limited capacity with the organizations that do these pro bono cases.

[Sam Seder]

Right.

[Maxwell Frost]

And in the south, we have, you know, Southern Poverty Law Center, ACLU of Florida, in Florida, a few other ones, you know, and like, that's it. And we're suing on a lot of things, you know, and it's. It's just hard, like.

[Emma Vigland]

And the law firms, the larger law firms that would be maybe engaging in some of this pro bono work, too, are being threatened by the Trump administration, and they're bowing.

[Maxwell Frost]

A lot of them bowing in advance, right?

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah, that's. That's what's. What's terrifying about this. Is Miami Dade county afraid of DeSantis, afraid of retaliation.

[Maxwell Frost]

They're scared of getting taken out of their seats, which is something DeSantis has been doing, right? If he. If you don't do what he wants, he just takes you out of the seat. My county, Orange county, just had this issue, which is. It's a tough one, right? They said, the state said, we want you to sign this form that says you will begin to transport people from Orange county all the way to the Everglades in our county. And our county mayor came out with a piece, and he said, no, like, get the hell out of here. And then DeSantis said, if you don't sign this, you're not going to be the mayor, and I'm going to take away the whole council. And it's tough, right? Because it's like, like, what do you do? Because the problem is with the county, if he takes out our mayor, we don't get to elect a new one. He appoints the mayor. We're like the bluest part of Florida. You know, he'll put it like a Republican hack in there, and then that's going to have implications for us on a whole host of issues. Immigration, of course, but then housing, homelessness, law enforcement, you know what I mean? And so we're in a really tough situation. We actually have even less tools than Texas does on a lot like redistricting, them leaving, which is great, to break the quorum. Florida Legislature, they don't have the ability to do that. If the Democrats left, they can just continue. So they've. And Florida really rigged stuff against us in a really big way. And that's Why I always say Project 2025 is like Florida 2010. You know, a lot of this, what they're doing across the country, they've built this in a lot of these red states and especially in the state of Florida. So we're in a tough situation. But I'm proud of the work we're doing. We're with our partners, with organizations and we need it all. Mutual aid, protests, elected officials, people suing artists. Like we're all coming together, you know, to take care of our community.

[Sam Seder]

Do we have any sense of. Do you have any sense of what the lack of a better term churn is? I mean they're building 100,000 beds, extra beds capacity presumably. I mean this all coming from the big reconciliation bill, presumably as interim detention before people get deported.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

Which I imagine is the case for a certain percentage of those people.

[Maxwell Frost]

But that's what Everglades all the whole thing.

[Sam Seder]

But do we know how long they're in there? Like do we have a sense of what the churn is? Because at one point it's also there's models out there for like, hey, for 50 cents a day you can go this.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Seder]

You know, do these jobs and all of a sudden. Yeah, I mean basic full on slavery and you know, sell them out to, you know, various corporations. I mean this, this seems to me to be something that certainly within the context of red states.

[Maxwell Frost]

Oh yeah.

[Sam Seder]

As a viable option from them.

[Maxwell Frost]

It's something I'm worried about especially as hurricane season begins and after a hurricane comes and because the state didn't prepar repair in the right way and there's a lot of devastation cleanup that needs to happen. I'm war and the emergency management department's running the facility. I'm worried that that can happen. So we're paying close attention to.

[Sam Seder]

So detainees sent out to do cleanup in the wake or even it's not.

[Maxwell Frost]

Happening now in Florida, you know, to be clear. But, but it is something I've, you know, I've thought of and you know, would definitely be in just yet another turn. What I will say though is this facility, what they told us and what I've heard directly from, I get like, I'll get like calls from people in the facility. Right. So immigrants are welcome here coalition. Like someone the organizers will call me and say on the other line, I have, you know, you know, somebody who's in there. Do you got 10 minutes? And I'll like walk out, I'll talk with them, we'll hear from them directly. In fact, one guy that we've been hearing from a lot just kind of fell off the face of the earth. We're not sure where he is. We're trying to track him. This facility, they're only supposed to be there for up to two weeks and it is supposed to be their last stop. That's what the director of the facility told me. He was like, this is their last part of America or part of the United States. And then they're gone. The problem is the guy I spoke with on the phone like two weeks ago said his family got legal counsel for him. He brought it up to the guards, he said, hey, I have legal counsel, so I can help fight this. And they said, okay, that's fine, but you're gonna be here for at least two months. And after a few days, he was like, I can't be here anymore. Like, I'd rather be on the streets of wherever the hell you send me. So he signed his papers.

[Emma Vigland]

So is that your assessment of the squalid, horrific, and I would argue torturous conditions in what can, I think only be described as a way to. I mean, this is extrajudicial. They're concentrating people. It's a concentration camp that they're using this, you know, horrible heat, these bugs, these like, toilets where they're drinking from the same water to basically kind of coerce them into self deporting 100%.

[Maxwell Frost]

And. And to be honest, guys, like, it's this facility, but it's a lot of these facilities and it's. That part isn't new. I mean, like even just like two years ago when I first got in, I went to Baker Detention facility, which is another one that doesn't really get a lot of news in North Florida. And I gotta be honest, the conditions there, I might even say are a little worse than the Everglades one. And this is like a facility that the sheriff's department is contract third party contractor from the federal government. And they transformed half their jail to hold immigrants for ice. And the conditions were horrible there. I mean, I spoke with women who said they get infections all the time because the undergarments that they use are not properly washed or they're washed and it's like bleach and it smells like bleach and they get sick. I met with two Haitian gentlemen two years ago who said, I been fighting this for eight months. I've been fighting my deportation for eight months. I just signed my papers. I'd rather be on the streets of Haiti than the streets of Haiti, than be in this facility. Another day, none of them had any kind of criminal. And even if you have a criminal conviction, you shouldn't be. Yeah, but they had no. You know, I mean, so. Yes, but also, that part is. That part isn't new. A lot of these facilities are horrible. They've been horrible for a long time. And I do believe part of the strategy here is, you know, I mean, you're detaining people in a jail where they're eating shit. They're, you know, they're in this thing for months and months. The deportation process for a lot of times can take up to a year. Used to. Now they're not getting their process. And so I do think part of it is, like, to just beat people down to the place where they're like, you know what? Just like, I need to leave. Send me wherever and I will figure it out.

[Emma Vigland]

And to me, this abject cruelty that you're describing should be a pretty easy place for Democrats to start on messaging. But I've been really disappointed. And I'd imagine that you, as one of the more progressive members of. Of Congress, in the fact that there have been. I would say the consensus opinion has been like, all right, let's just step away from this, because this is Donald Trump's best issue. Even though, since really he sent the National Guard in L. A, he's been underwater on this topic. Like, can you describe what the fight has been within the Democratic Party on how to stand up for immigrants here?

[Maxwell Frost]

It's been really frustrating, and I'm just. Just in general, because, look, at first, people were saying this a lot. Myself and a few other members went to El Salvador to the Kilmarber Garcia, and we came back, and I had a few folks who reached out to me who said, like, you know, Max, I don't think that was a good move. Like, I think it's going to hurt us. And I was like, all right, I respect your opinion.

[Sam Seder]

Can we guess the initials of those people?

[Maxwell Frost]

You can guess the initial, I'm not going to say. But what I will say is he.

[Sam Seder]

In this area, I got, like.

[Maxwell Frost]

I mean, I got a lot of support from, like, a lot of, you know, leadership people on doing it right, But I think a lot of people were worried it was going to hurt us. And then literally a week later, this poll comes out, and it was the first poll that showed Donald Trump underwater. It was, like, negative one, but still underwater on immigration. Right. This issue, he, like, he won on this and that. And so I put that into every group chat. I'm in And I'm like, guys, look like we have to keep. We have to talk about this, because it's not even just about. It's about immigration, but it's about civil rights. It's about our communities being terrorized. It's about there being peace for a lot of people where they live. And now there's chaos. And I think it's important to talk about it. You know, it's like the Republicans used, I think, because we weren't loud enough on trans issues. Republicans filled a void, right?

[Sam Seder]

Of course.

[Maxwell Frost]

And they're really good at filling a void. We did it to them on immigration and guns. They're doing it to us on trans people and immigration. We just can't let it happen. And now he's very underwater on immigration. And so I think we have to talk about it. And the other thing. And actually, I, you know, I'm on this tour, Chris Murphy, we're going to red districts, and I'm stealing this from him. But I think it's a great way of putting it that there's people who want us to believe that these are two different stories, right? Attacks against our democracy, ice kidnapping people, like this kind of stuff that people say, don't talk about it because it'll help Trump. And then the other story, they're taking away Medicaid. They're not doing what they need to do on cost of living and this and that. And they're not two separate stories of the same story. Because the only way you rip away Medicaid from this many people, take away our health care, and have the largest transfer of wealth from the working poor, the working class, to the ultra rich, without fearing for your political life, is if you scare people, take away their rights and scare them into submission. So it's one enables the other. They're not two separate things. And when I heard him, he said that one of the town halls around, I was like, that's the perfect way to put it. People want us to think they're two different stories. It's one story. It's one strategy. It's one thing. I think people understand that. So I think I will tell you. People are coming around.

[Emma Vigland]

That's good.

[Maxwell Frost]

I think people are coming around. That's good.

[Sam Seder]

Is it. Is it. I mean, is it polls? I mean, is there, like, there seems to be a complete absence of awareness that even in the most crass and cynical analysis, you need to be different from what you're competing against in the political realm? Like just even in the most. Forget the humanity or the Morality, I mean, which of course, I think this happens to be at play here.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

But if you're not offering something different, you are completely seeding the entire issue. And to the extent that there's any value there, it all accrues to, in this case, the Republicans.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yes, I agree. Yeah. And this is why we're in this, in this in the first place. Like, we, we didn't talk about it enough. We didn't have a, you know, staked out position. People would bring up, you know, trans rights or immigration. And a lot of Democrats would like, you know, give a non answer and like, try to move on. And I think, like that Republicans saw that and they exploited it and they exploited the hell out of it. And we shouldn't. The polls are on our side, but even if they weren't, it's like, do you think Donald Trump sits there and goes like, what do the polls say? You know, he's saying whatever the hell he wants to say.

[Sam Seder]

Well, the polls on trans, on trans people have completely changed over the years. We saw over the course of a decade and a half, marriage equality also change and now, you know, reverting, at least on the Republican side. The. How much? I mean, this is a tough question, but when you look at the Democratic caucus, you've met most of these people by now. You have a sense of at least a decent amount of them. Them. How much of the Democratic caucus is aware if there's this issue with leadership on immigration? I assume that there's also a sort of a broader dynamic in terms of like understanding this concept of the way that you defeat them is to actually exhibit some measure of partisanship, just even putting ideology to the side for a moment.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

Do you have a sense of like, within the Democratic Party, you say things are turning and that's a function of the polls and whatnot. And that's also a function of the. Where each member is in their understanding of this partisan dynamic.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

How would you defy that? Because. Yes. I mean, I've been doing this for 25 years and 20 years ago, it's very different. Joe Manchin was out there literally shooting. His ad was shooting with an AR15. The carbon cap legislation was the way he ran for Senate. And people were like, well, hopefully you'll win. You know, I mean, it was a different time. Where, where is that balance within the Republican, I mean, the Democrats. Caucasus.

[Maxwell Frost]

I would say this, and I get, I might get some eye rolls here, but like, I'm like being very genuine, like most of the people in my Caucus, right. In my team in Congress, I think are very against this. Right. And are coming from a really genuine good place on these issues. And I think they have real questions, a lot of them, about what's the right thing to do in this moment so we can get the levers of power so we can do the right thing. I think in that bubble of conversation there are loud voices that can help steer the ship in the right direction or wrong direction. I'm gonna give you an example. Medicare for all, right. I think we're a lot closer to this than a lot of other people think we are. Why? Because most of our caucus, I actually think would vote yes, hit the button. But there's some key things that need to happen beforehand. I don't actually think we need to wipe out the whole caucus and have like all, you know, people who share our ideology to do that thing specifically. I mean it would be better but like, you know what I mean, like to do that thing specifically because I actually think most of the people, and I would even peg it at like 80 something percent would hit that yes button if they were presented with the opportunity. Our job as progressives is to figure out how do we get them the opportunity to do it. And like. And so either way, does that answer your question?

[Sam Seder]

The opportunity in the sense that the legislation needs to be put on the floor or it needs to go through.

[Maxwell Frost]

A committee and he's to get on the floor and like there. And so it's like, how do we get that to happen? Because I think when it does happen, we will win.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, probably a presidential candidate endorsing that's.

[Maxwell Frost]

Like the big, that's like the biggest lever, right? And then there's some other smaller levers that we can work on now. And that's why I think we're actually a lot closer than, you know, Medicare for all is like almost the whole Democratic. Not almost. I think it's like 100 and something amount of people, which is a lot of people on a bill, you know, and so I think we're a lot closer than people think. And it's not that. Well, the whole Democratic caucus is like bought and paid for by health insurance companies and we're never going to get it. I think it's that we need to figure out how we bring that opportunity and put it in front of people. And I think on immigration, the opportunity outside of Congress and in their districts is being put in our faces, right? Because like people are protesting on the issue, people are asking us about the issue at town halls. And it's putting people where, like, you know, the courage. The courage is. What is it called? Courage is contagious.

[Emma Vigland]

Right.

[Maxwell Frost]

You know, and that's why I'm saying I see the tides turning. I think people want the tides to turn. Does that make sense? Am I making.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, I hope you're right about. I think, certainly. Listen, Biden felt it necessary to say that he would veto it. And so you don't say that if you think there's no chance it's ever going to come to your desk in certain situations.

[Emma Vigland]

Or he was putting the, you know, kind of pressure to tamp down any efforts to push for that from the Sanders wing or something like that. I mean, I don't know.

[Sam Seder]

It also could have been just a side to Nancy Pelosi, who was very, you know, not. This is no secret. She adamant against that. I mean, to the point where in the American Rescue act, they decide to have the government pay for COBRA instead of Medicare, you know, even temporarily. They did not want anybody to get a taste of that. You could not have found a less efficient way to provide health insurance for people. I mean, it's good on the receiving end. Yeah, it feels good. I got free health insurance. That's good. But in terms of government efficiency, that's the most expensive possible way to do it.

[Maxwell Frost]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. To give you some hope, too. So a lot of you don't know. I'm on the Democratic Policy and Communications Committee, dpcc. I ran for this last Congress. I'm not making all the comments. This is. I'm like one of, you know, a group of people. But one of the things we were tasked with doing was doing listening sessions with the whole caucus to understand what people think about the issues, because working on, like, what the agenda is. Right. You can't just run against Trump. You have to have something that. The way I say it is like, that we run on, we went on, then we do it. And the doing is, like, you know, one of the most important parts. And I got to be honest, from the most conservative. I was in some meetings of very conservative Democrats who were railing against health insurance. Like, we need to simplify the system and, like, they're learning a ton about Medicare for all, but, like, not saying those exact words. And so I do think this last election is, like, the cage has been, like, shaken a bit. I don't think there's an establishment right now in the Democratic Party. I think it's up for grabs. And I think a lot of people are just running around and I think it presents an opportunity for progressives to seize it. Right.

[Sam Seder]

I would like to editorialize and say by establishment, you don't think there's any leadership because it's quite, I mean there seems to be. You don't have to say that. I'll give you a break. But there's a, there's no rudder. There's no rudder. Right.

[Emma Vigland]

And the Democrat. It seems to me that the Democratic caucus shouldn't need a president or a presidential favorite to lead the way on the permission structure for issues like, you know, the fact that we can't have congressional leadership, in my view, step up in this moment and message the party around a set of issues that aren't just oppositional to Trump, but creating something and standing on this is what we're going to do for you. Don't you think that that kind of adds to this authenticity problem that the party has? It's 30 low approval rating for the Democratic Party.

[Maxwell Frost]

I think it's really important that as soon as possible we release like and has to be. We can't just be like we're going to lower the. You know what I mean? It has to affordability.

[Emma Vigland]

The vagueness of it is frustrating. And this does bring us to talking about Israel here where I do think we're getting there. Yes.

[Maxwell Frost]

Like on the, I'm hearing people talk.

[Sam Seder]

About threatening tax incentives. That's going to be very.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah. I mean like so yeah. You know, you were talking about. And I wrote it down because you're saying you can't tell these two separate stories about ICE and fascism and stuff. I don't think you can tell the story about this right wing fascist, authoritarian moment right now without telling the story of the genocide in Gaza. And right now there is a Gallup had a poll that came out that that kind of seemed to change some rhetoric within the party. 8% of Democrats approve of Israel's military action in Gaza. But is there a sense within the caucus that this is now a litmus test not just for Democratic voters, but independents? That Same poll had 25% of independents support Israel's military action. This like it's a test of are you actually a fighter for me or are you going to take this money that is supporting what people are increasingly seeing as one of the worst crimes in the history of humanity that our government, governments complicit in? Like, is that awareness trickling through or is that AIPAC money too sweet to go?

[Maxwell Frost]

I think so, especially as we've seen a lot more people speaking out recently. Reb Deli Ramirez has a bill Block the Bombs act that has been like, I think over the last week, we've received maybe four or five new sponsors to it who haven't sponsored bills like that in the past. So I do think there's a tide two years in, right. Like, but I do think there's a tide changing here. I think a lot of it does have to do the polls, but I think a lot of it has to do with people. When we go home, you know, you hear directly from your constituents. When you do your town halls, you hear directly from people. And I think for a lot of members, they're getting calls from folks who've never called them about this issue before. Because I mean, to be, you know, just kind of, to put it bluntly, when you have like, kind of the same organizations or like groups that like members of Congress in their mind can chalk up, like, that's the, like, that's like the left organization. In my district, you're put in a box. Doesn't mean your voice isn't important. Doesn't mean you shouldn't hold people accountable. But I'm just saying it's easy for like a political leader to say, like, that's the left, Gordon. This is this organ. That's that. But I think now people are getting calls and having meetings with people who are not in that box who are saying, you know, what I'm seeing going on, I'm not comfortable with. It's against my religion. We see a lot of Christian leaders stepping up and Southern Baptist leaders, AME leaders, Kojik leaders, a lot of people in the traditional black church stepping up in an even bigger way than before. And I think a lot of leaders are now speaking out in bigger ways. And I think it's putting a lot of members in a position where they're saying, I have to say more, but I also have to do more in terms of my vote or co sponsoring legislation.

[Emma Vigland]

But doesn't it speak to a structural problem within the party that we're at 8% support for this military action and the majority of the Democratic caucus can't get there?

[Maxwell Frost]

I think it is a problem. Yeah, I think it's a big issue.

[Sam Seder]

What is it with Democrats where that the, the, the notion of like, well, okay, and I get what you're saying. This left organization, of course they're saying that, and then it becomes dismissed because it's just associated.

[Maxwell Frost]

That isn't important. But just like, you know.

[Sam Seder]

No, well, that's not unexpected on some level.

[Maxwell Frost]

It's not just that.

[Sam Seder]

That Organization doesn't have the power, as opposed to on the right, where the reaction for from a Republican politician would be like, oh, shit it, these guys have come out against this. We're in trouble now. As opposed to like, of course, the. I mean, this is a dynamic that has existed. I don't know if it's since McGovern in this party or what. But what changes that from the perspective of somebody who's gone from the outside to the inside? What changes that?

[Maxwell Frost]

I think. I think an issue we have on the left, on this issue and a lot of other issues is the kind of establishment of our party doesn't legitimize or recognize a lot of times the groups and advocacy organizations in a way that the right wing. I'm not going to give them a ton of credit and say they've done this in a big way, but Trump has really done it in a big way. And an example I give is on the youth vote, right? Not that change of subject, but I think it's a good example. Trump gave $100 million of his campaign money to Turning Point USA. Turning Point USA is not a Republican organization. It's a far right, like, you know, Charlie Kirk, fascist Christian nationalist organization. He gave them $100 million, said, go turn out youth voters in these key states. And he legitimized that organization in a huge way. Where these Turning Point conferences, not only are they well funded by a lot of establishment figures in the Republican Party, but name me one Democratic event where every Democratic person running for president goes to a conference to try and win over the young people of the party.

[Sam Seder]

Netroots used to have that at one point. At one point, you know, Obama was there, okay. But yeah, that was a brief, very brief, very brief.

[Maxwell Frost]

And I would argue even now, like, given, like, you know, March for Our Lives, Dream Defenders, Trayvon Martin, George Floyd, like, young people are very politically activated, but there's like a huge absence of that and which I think ties to what's going on in Gaza and a lot of other issues as well. We just, like those organizations are not as legitimized by the, you know, real power brokers in the party. And I think it's a huge, huge issue. And part of the reason why we didn't lose the youth vote, but we. They got. I think it's 46% insane, like Republicans getting 46% of the youth vote. You know, we got 70% just last cycle, so. Or the cycle before last cycle. So I think there's a lot of, like, organizing institutional issues we have in the party that we have to fix. And a lot of it is what we're talking about. Like these groups shouldn't. People shouldn't be put in a box like that. We should bring people in more with the understanding that we're gonna get called out. People are, you know, advocating for the issue that they really care about or set of issues. And from people who are very. To the left to. I think the people most catered to in our party are people who are more in the center. But we should be. We talk about it like this big tent and then it closes out on the progressive side. And I think it creates conditions where we lose.

[Sam Seder]

I want to get back to Gaza, but just on this topic, there was a big piece on the mothership, actually, that I don't know if you've seen this. It's a Democratic associated consulting firm fundraising outfit that somebody's dug into their numbers and a ton of them.

[Maxwell Frost]

Oh, the fake pack. Yeah, yeah. And the ones where you get that, like, text message where it's like, donate money now or else we're gonna die.

[Sam Seder]

They also work for actual campaigns.

[Maxwell Frost]

You're talking about the firm. The firm. Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

And. But there is a problem within the consultant class in the Democratic Party. I mean, there's a reason why you don't reach young people or even, frankly, anybody under the age of 50, because the media buys are much more lucrative for consultants who are going to put it on tv and people just aren't watching TV in the way they.

[Maxwell Frost]

To.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, they're not going to look for a, you know, a communications plan that will go to places where they're not going to get their 15% vig, essentially. Is there any movement amongst. Is there an awareness of this problem?

[Maxwell Frost]

I think there's an awareness of it. I couldn't comment. Like, I don't know what everyone's doing on their campaigns, but it is a huge issue because. Yeah, that's how a lot of these firms make a lot of money.

[Sam Seder]

The dccc, they're in a position to do something about this.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah. So I've heard that the, you know, the DCCC is putting more resources into the organizing side. Like, there's a thing called Democracy Summer I'm a part of with Jamie Raskin, where we actually pay and hire young people across the country for a summer to knock doors and get involved on the campaign. Well, we just finished it. I hired like 30 for this summer. And it was. And it was great. So there's more of that going on. But. But yeah, it's a huge issue because the last presidential cycle, $2 billion were spent right. On our presidential campaign and just like, what, seven or eight battleground states, mostly on tv. And the problem with these campaigns, and not to, like, get campaign nerdy here, but I think it's important is when you. Once you get to a certain amount of spending, you hit message saturation on that medium. Anything you spend on top of that, it's like you're literally burning money on fire.

[Sam Seder]

Well, and so you're burning 5% of it on fire.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

That you're getting 15% goes into my pocket.

[Maxwell Frost]

Goes into the pocket.

[Sam Seder]

I became a multimillionaire.

[Maxwell Frost]

And I think this is part of the problem, is candidates think. And I think part of it is they've seen super PACs come in and spend all this money and campaigns and think, well, that equals winning, which 98% of congressional candidates who have the most money spent for them win the races. So, I mean, it's important to recognize that. But it's the way you spend. I think it's important. It can't just be tv. The organizing piece is extremely important, especially in close races. Organizing can get you 1, 2, 3 points. Right. In a race. If you're in a close race, that's. That's the ball game in New York City.

[Emma Vigland]

It could get you 12 points if you have DSA as a part of your organization. But I mean, I think that's important to say in that this camp. I know it's. There's every national Democrat that's asked about this race basically says New York City is not the rest of the country. But the model was not just unique to New York City. Bernie Sanders also was somebody who. And even Obama, prior to this, activating voters who were disaffected by the political system. Yeah, when we talk about democracy, I think, you know, obviously that's really important to emphasize. But this last campaign, Kamala Harris ran on democracy and brought out Liz Cheney to make this case. And there's a fundamental problem right now where people don't believe in the word democracy. And we can say they're wrong to feel that way. I agree they're wrong to feel that way. But that's in part because our democracy isn't working for them.

[Maxwell Frost]

Exactly.

[Emma Vigland]

And it's not just because Trump is in power. It's also because of that article where people are getting hounded for money and it goes nowhere. Or they're seeing super PACs buy up all these ads, or they're seeing, and again, the genocide in Gaza. Deeply unpopular and none of their representatives responding to them. Yeah, so this is a leading question, obviously, and partly a rant, but I want Democrats to understand that their actions have an impact on people's belief in democracy. And I hope not you. I mean, I'm sure that you see like you and the rest of the squad and stuff like that, that you're making that case, but it feels like we're way behind on having members understand that.

[Maxwell Frost]

I think part of it too is the, a big consultant way of thinking about campaigns is most people don't pay attention until the end, which there's, there's truth to saying that. But the problem is it leads people to not think of all their actions throughout the rest of the time as impacting the election. And that's, you know, I'm one of like, I think I'm one of less than five members of Congress to do year round organizing. So I'm always raising money, not just for like some race that might come, but I spend a lot of money on organizing. I hire people year round. We have three courts a year of young people that we hire to go out and knock doors to events. You know, we, we're just always doing stuff. And it's not always vote for Maxwell. Sometimes it's hurricane seasons coming up. Here's some resources or it's Maxwell endorses school board candidates, special election coming up. Can, you know, and we've, and we create this relationship that is less transactional and more transformational. I think we need to start doing that. Everybody and candidates especially in safe blue seats in general and safe blue seats. We have to spend our resources too. And there's a lot of members of Congress, a lot of politicians in general sitting on a ton of money for a race, maybe one day that might come and not spending it on building power, you know, and I think that's so important. And I feel like it's not even like, oh, give me a pat on the back. I feel like it's required of me, especially in the state of Florida, like it is required of me to do that is required of all of us to do that. And, and when you do that and you're knocking on those doors, you hear what people actually think about, right? You hear about Gaza, right? You hear about Gaza in neighborhoods that you wouldn't think you would hear about it in, right? You hear about housing, right. You hear about ice. You hear about things and it's, it really grounds you and what people actually give a damn about where you live and not some ominous poll that you see online that's being cited that you don't know who they spoke with. I mean we're constantly hearing from people directly.

[Sam Seder]

So I want to get back just Israel, Palestine for a moment quickly, if we can. Pete Buttigieg was asked an interesting question on pause of America. Did you. What's your reaction to his response? Which I actually have written it down. I guess this is the way I would ask the question.

[Maxwell Frost]

You wrote it down.

[Sam Seder]

Do you think it's time to recognize a Palestinian state is a profound question that arouses a lot of the biggest problems that have happened, happened with Israelis. Survival in a diplomatic scene. And many of the people who have taken that step historically have done so for different reasons than we see happening with European countries.

[Maxwell Frost]

I think this, I think the interesting thing about when people are asked about this and I'm not going to say or not like I, you know, there aren't past interviews where I've maybe given a similar answer. But I think as days and months have passed, I've just personally been in a place where I'm like, we just need to speak very directly about this. And I think something that a lot of people appreciate about Pete are actually the way he answers stuff. Right. You've seen his jubilee thing and stuff like that. Like people, he's a talented communicator. Yeah, he's really good at communicating and it's interesting even like very talented communicators when asked about it.

[Emma Vigland]

But that's why it's telling that this answer was so mealy mouthed is because it, it shows all of the different incentives to not speak about the genocide of the Palestinian people.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah. So I mean, yeah, so either way, I mean that's my opinion. I mean, yeah, he should have just said. Yeah. And my thing is it is the position of, it's supposed to be the position of our government. Right. The supposed position of our government is two state solution. Right.

[Sam Seder]

And that's been stated policy up and really up until the first.

[Maxwell Frost]

Well, my thing though is that's supposed to be the position. But then when it comes down to really isn't because you can't have it, you know, occupied west bank, you can't have that if we don't have a Palestinian state. Like two state means two states. So like you have to say there has to be a state. That's why even now, you know, a lot of like corporate media and people are trying to make it. I was signed off this letter Ro Khanna calling for a Palestinian state. And there were these Articles that came out being like, it's so radical. And I'm like, like, how is this so radical? I thought this was the position of the country. I thought it was two state solution. This is like, I mean, it was.

[Sam Seder]

Stated US policy for at least 30 years.

[Maxwell Frost]

No, it is, it is. This is what everyone says. But like, when it comes down to it, no one's really about that part of it, which is literally half of a part of the two. That's the one.

[Emma Vigland]

Can I push on that slightly? Is that the reason that they can't be sincere about it is because it's not a sincere. I mean, I think that this Ro Khanna resolution is a really good thing and the government step, but it's not a sincere place to be in the sense that this is about an apartheid state and one democratic state is one that racially integrates Palestinians and Israelis. And I'm still really waiting for Democrats, even one or two, maybe beyond Rashida Tlaib, to talk about this issue in a way that echoes its historic counterparts of Jim Crow or apartheid South Africa, except actually it's even worse because they're committing genocide too. So the two state thing, it doesn't resonate with, I think, people who are invested in this issue because the facts on the ground have changed so dramatically that this is not a realistic thing that can happen.

[Maxwell Frost]

Well, I guess what I'm trying to say though is like. But even then. Yes, right.

[Emma Vigland]

It's a good step.

[Maxwell Frost]

I mean, yeah, but, but like, it's just like there's no, it's the supposed policy of the country. And then, but when asked about, do you believe in Palestinian state, people are, you know, either say no or they can't say yes. And it's just, it's a big part of what is supposed to be the policy of our country. So I agree that I don't feel it's genuine at all. Yeah. And that's something that I'm seeing more and more because I didn't think me signing on this letter would even be a big, big deal, to be honest, because I thought, you know, two state, that's one of the, one of the two states. And you know, and, but it's apparently a huge radical thing and it's insane. So I think it's good that more countries are coming out and just saying, we're going to recognize Palestine. And I think we need to do the same thing and we need to, you know, just, we need to move in the right direction.

[Sam Seder]

So a couple other questions you're on the oversight. The government oversight.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yes, I am there.

[Sam Seder]

Billy Long was fired. I don't know if this is something that you guys cover in terms of the irs.

[Maxwell Frost]

Oh, yes. Yeah. The represent.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, it was supposedly because he wouldn't hand over data, IRS data that was supposedly to track immigrants. Where as this come up, I mean, do you guys get some type of bat signal when like, I mean, I mean, Billy Long doesn't strike me as a guy. Billy Long is the one who's protecting this data. I think there may be a problem.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, it is. I mean, and we saw this at a Library of Congress. Carla Hayden was fired. A lot of people were like, library of Congress library. And what, you know, the copyright and patents sit under the Library of Congress. So very important work that happens there. Crs. Congressional Research Service, which is what we use to get facts to write our bills. Right. Is under the Library of Congress as well. So this is like part of him going through, I think, asking for something that's pretty big in part to test the loyalty of the person in the position. And if they don't give it, then they're fired. I made a tweet about this the other day. We. I'm working with some members, keeping a list of when we see him do this. Cuz I actually Trump won't be the last authoritarian that at least tries to get to power in this country. I think we'd need to separate a lot of these offices from the executive branch. And really any office that's supposed to give us objective data from the government, I just think we need to separate from that. From.

[Sam Seder]

They just hired a crony for BLS as well. Or at least they're going to nominate one.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

In Florida. Are you guys feeling the Trump slump that they're feeling in Las Vegas in terms of tourism?

[Maxwell Frost]

Oh, yeah, yeah, the Trump slump. I was actually just in Las Vegas and I was speaking on some Uber drivers about it as well. Yes. Actually, any tourism center in the country is feeling it. And so Florida is feeling it. And it's for many reasons, I think economic instability, tariffs, immigration's a huge one. International visits to the country are down by a lot. Disney, where I live, you know, a lot of the people come in are from across the entire country, but we're scared to come to this country right now. So we are feeling Trump's slump, but especially in Orlando. Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

All right, well, I mean, I think, you know, we've held you for like an hour.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah.

[Maxwell Frost]

So it's good. Good to see with you guys, I gotta say. Too. I was using your restroom. I looked up and I saw a poster of a show that I loved. I used to watch My friends Todd Margaret.

[Sam Seder]

Oh, yeah.

[Maxwell Frost]

I haven't thought of that in a while.

[Sam Seder]

Yes.

[Maxwell Frost]

I, that show's hilarious.

[Sam Seder]

David is a friend of mine, and I, when we went to his opening of that show, I got a little drunk, and I, I, I left with that.

[Maxwell Frost]

You left? Oh, so that's a stolen artifact.

[Sam Seder]

It's a stolen thing. And I woke up the next morning and it was in my house. And so that was.

[Maxwell Frost]

Now it's here.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, I mean, that was a long time ago when I was framed in the bathroom.

[Maxwell Frost]

Framed in the bathroom.

[Sam Seder]

It was framed at the time.

[Maxwell Frost]

Oh, you stole it? Framed.

[Sam Seder]

Took it off the wall.

[Maxwell Frost]

Oh, nice.

[Sam Seder]

They had put it in.

[Maxwell Frost]

It's not a little thing. I mean, they must have seen you walk out.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah. How'd you get away with that?

[Sam Seder]

I think I might have been one of the last people to leave. Or it was, you know, I think.

[Maxwell Frost]

They let that happen.

[Sam Seder]

There's a lot of stuff.

[Maxwell Frost]

Well, there's no way you walked out.

[Sam Seder]

I walked out lacrosse. I mean, he. But he probably had no idea what was going on.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Seder]

That's the nature of that. But that was a good show. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your coming in, and it was good to talk to you. And good luck with. With what's going on, obviously, there's, like, you know, two fronts I think, that you're fighting right now. One is one within the Democratic caucus for a lot of things, and then obviously the other one is what's going on with the Republican Party.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

And.

[Emma Vigland]

And fascism.

[Sam Seder]

Yes.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

Fascism.

[Maxwell Frost]

That thing. That thing going on.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah, It's a little intense.

[Sam Seder]

All right, we're going to take a quick break and head into the fun half of the program. Not that, yeah, fun. This was obviously fun, but the arguably funner half. Just reminder your support is what makes this show possible. You can become a [e-mail] also, just coffee.co op, fair trade coffee, hot chocolate. Use the coupon code. Majority get 10% off. Matt's not here. Brian will fill us in on left refning. Yeah, he said check out a DSA convention update and a big interview with Set Harp on the Fort Bragg Cartel.

[Maxwell Frost]

Book at patreon.com backslash left reckoning.

[Sam Seder]

All right, quick break. Fun half. Thanks again, Congressman.

[Maxwell Frost]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

We'll be right back. Three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now, and I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months from now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're gonna look back and go like, wow. What? What is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second. Hold on. Hold on for a second. Emma, welcome to the program. What is up, everyone? Fun hack. Nomi Keen, you did it. Fun hack.

[Maxwell Frost]

Let's go. Brandon on Crap.

[Sam Seder]

Bradley, you want to say hello?

[Maxwell Frost]

Sorry to disappoint everyone. I'm just a random guy.

[Sam Seder]

It's all the boys today.

[Emma Vigland]

Fundamentally false. No. I'm sorry.

[Maxwell Frost]

Women.

[Sam Seder]

Stop talking for a second. Let me finish.

[Maxwell Frost]

Where is this coming from? Dude.

[Sam Seder]

But. Dude, you want to smoke this? 7A.

[Emma Vigland]

Yes.

[Maxwell Frost]

Hi, media.

[Sam Seder]

You're safe. Yes. This me? Is it me? It is you? Is this me?

[Maxwell Frost]

Hello?

[Sam Seder]

Is this me? I think it is you. Who is you? No sound. Every single freaking day. What's on your mind? We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism. I'm going to go start right. Who? Libertarians. They're so stupid. Though common sense says of course.

[Emma Vigland]

Gobbledygook.

[Sam Seder]

We nailed him.

[Emma Vigland]

So what's 79?

[Sam Seder]

21 challenge. Matt.

[Maxwell Frost]

I'm positively quivering.

[Sam Seder]

I believe 86. I want to say. 8572-1035-5011-1389, 11.

[Maxwell Frost]

For instance.

[Emma Vigland]

$3,400. $1900. 5, 4.

[Sam Seder]

$3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game. Actually.

[Emma Vigland]

You're making me think less.

[Sam Seder]

But. But let me say this. You call satire?

[Maxwell Frost]

Sam Goes satire on top of it all. My favorite part about you is just.

[Emma Vigland]

Like every day, all day.

[Maxwell Frost]

Like everything you do.

[Sam Seder]

Without a doubt. Hey, bud. All right, folks. Folks. Folks.

[Emma Vigland]

It's just the week being weeded out. Obviously.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah. Sun's out, guns out. I. I don't know.

[Maxwell Frost]

But you should know.

[Sam Seder]

People just don't like to entertain ideas anymore. I have a question. Who cares? Our chat is enabled. I love it.

[Emma Vigland]

I do love that.

[Sam Seder]

Gotta ju. You gotta be quick. I gotta jump.

[Maxwell Frost]

I'm losing it, bro.

[Sam Seder]

Two o'.

[Maxwell Frost]

Clock.

[Sam Seder]

We're already late and the guy's being a dick. So screw him. Sent to a gulag.

[Emma Vigland]

Outrageous.

[Sam Seder]

Like. What is wrong with you? Love you.

[Maxwell Frost]

Bye.

[Sam Seder]

Love you.

[Maxwell Frost]

Bye.

[Sam Seder]

Bye.