3560 - Zohran’s Food Desert Solution; Private Prison Profits Soar w/ Omar Ocampo, Whitney Wimbish

Summary

The Majority Report with Sam Seder – Episode 3560 Summary

Release Date: August 14, 2025
Title: Zohran’s Food Desert Solution; Private Prison Profits Soar
Guests: Omar Ocampo, Whitney Wimbish

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1. Israeli West Bank Settlement Expansion

Key Discussion Points:

• Israeli Finance Minister Smotrich’s Announcement:
  Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich declared the approval of a key West Bank settlement, explicitly stating it aims to “bury a Palestinian state” (00:19).

• “Facts on the Ground” Strategy:
  Smotrich emphasized building connections between Maale Adumim and Jerusalem to ensure Israel’s capital remains unified.

  “Today we are finally fulfilling the promise and connecting Maale Adumim to Jerusalem, our one and only capital in strategic security and demographic connection that ensures our capital remains united for generations to come.” (00:19)

• Implications for Palestinian Statehood:
  The expansion is seen as a strategic move to make a viable Palestinian state impossible by creating fragmented territories, similar to the separation already seen with the Gaza Strip.

  “This reality ultimately buries the idea of a Palestinian state simply because there is nothing to recognize and no one to recognize.” (06:18)

Expert Insight:

• Matt Binder’s Analysis:
  Binder elucidated that the E1 plan dismembers the West Bank into non-viable cantons, effectively nullifying the possibility of a contiguous Palestinian state.

  “E1 will dismember the West bank into two cantons, making a viable Palestinian state impossible.” (06:36)

Impact and Reactions:

• International and Local Backlash:
  The settlement expansion has been met with heightened tensions in the West Bank, increased settler attacks, and condemnation from Arab nations. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Trump are portrayed as pivotal figures facilitating this aggressive expansion.

2. Domestic Political Landscape and Policy Issues

Key Topics:

• Pete Buttigieg’s Controversial Statements on Gaza:
  The former Transportation Secretary faced backlash for ambiguous responses regarding the “Gaza genocide,” attempting to clarify his stance without providing concrete answers.

  “It's important to be clear about something this enormous and this painful.” (14:26)

• Trump Administration’s Economic and Legal Moves:

  • Inflation Concerns: July data indicated significant inflation, the highest monthly gain since June 2020.
  • Tariff Negotiations: Trump is pressuring major law firms to negotiate tariff deals pro bono, diverting resources from critical legal aid for incarcerated individuals.
  • Bureau of Labor Statistics Appointment: Trump’s pick for the BLS head has a controversial background linked to January 6th, raising concerns about the agency’s future integrity.

3. Tackling Food Deserts: Zoran Mamdani’s City-Owned Grocery Plan

Guest: Omar Ocampo, Researcher at the Program on Inequality and the Common Good, Institute for Policy Studies (21:18)

Key Discussion Points:

• Definition and Impact of Food Deserts:
  Food deserts are areas with limited access to affordable and nutritious food, affecting both rural and urban communities. In New York City alone, over two dozen neighborhoods are classified as food deserts.

  “Food deserts are areas where the access to healthy and affordable food is limited.” (21:59)

• Causes of Food Deserts:

  1. Lack of Profitability:
     Low-income neighborhoods lack the financial viability for private grocery stores, leading to limited options for residents.

     “There's the lack of profitability... private grocers don't want to invest in specific neighborhoods because they expect to lose money.” (24:10)

  2. Market Concentration and Price Discrimination:
     A handful of large grocery chains dominate the market, leveraging bulk purchasing to offer lower prices, which small stores cannot compete with, resulting in higher prices and reduced competition.

     “Six grocery chains control about two thirds of the market... smaller grocers are forced to buy food at a higher price.” (26:05)

• Zoran Mamdani’s Proposal:
  Allocate $60 million to establish city-owned grocery stores in NYC’s food deserts. These stores would operate similarly to military commissaries, purchasing food at wholesale prices to offer affordable options without the profit-driven constraints of private sector competitors.

  “City-owned grocery stores can ensure access to fresh and healthy food in underserved neighborhoods.” (30:12)

• Successful Models:
  The US Military’s commissary system serves as a model, operating over 240 stores that provide groceries at 20-30% cheaper rates than regular stores by covering operational costs through government subsidies.

  “These commissaries are subsidized, ensuring that prices remain low and accessible.” (28:40)

• Debunking Capital Flight Myths:
  Raising taxes on high earners to fund public initiatives like city-owned grocery stores does not lead to significant capital flight. Citing Massachusetts’ successful implementation of a surtax on millionaires, Ocampo argued that economic opportunities and quality of life factors outweigh tax concerns for wealthy individuals, resulting in increased tax revenue rather than mass relocations.

  “Massachusetts has seen an increase in millionaires despite the surtax, proving that the myth of capital flight is unfounded.” (36:17)

4. Private Prisons and Immigration Policies Under Trump

Guest: Whitney Curry Wimbish, Staff Writer at the American Prospect and Co-author of AM Quickie (45:13)

Key Discussion Points:

• Profits of Private Prison Companies:
  Companies like Geo Group and CoreCivic have reported unprecedented growth, capitalizing on Trump’s stringent immigration policies. Their recent earnings calls revealed substantial profits and future plans to further expand detention capacities.

  “These companies see Trump’s immigration terror campaign as a long-term beneficial strategy to maximize their profits.” (46:16)

• Government Contracts and Subsidization:
  Private prisons receive significant funding from the federal government, enabling them to expand operations without improving conditions for detainees.

  “They’ve just received $45 billion more from the US government to do even more of this.” (46:16)

• Conflict of Interest and Revolving Door:
  High-level executives in these companies often have ties to ICE and the Bureau of Prisons, creating a revolving door that perpetuates the cycle of profitable detention. Notable figures like Tom Holman receive substantial compensation for consulting roles while serving in administration positions.

  “There is this revolving door between these companies and ICE employees, creating conflicts of interest.” (50:39)

• Inhumane Conditions in Detention Centers:
  Reports highlight deplorable conditions in immigration detention facilities, including overcrowding, lack of medical care, inadequate sanitation, and systemic abuses during deportation processes.

  “On the 10th floor... the toilets are out in the open, no medical facility, and women aren’t given enough sanitation pads.” (57:53)

• Impact on Immigrants:
  Detainees experiencing fair hearings with no legal representation are often detained indefinitely, facing anxiety-inducing environments designed to facilitate deportations rather than rehabilitation or fair legal processes.

  “People walked out of the courtroom thinking they had good news, only to be snatched and detained again.” (62:34)

Notable Quotes:

• Whitney Wimbish:

  “Geo Group and CoreCivic are leveraging Trump’s immigration policies to maximize profits at the expense of human rights.” (46:16)

• Omar Ocampo:

  “Private grocers have failed these communities, making city-owned stores essential for ensuring access to healthy food.” (35:41)

5. Conclusion

The episode of The Majority Report delved into critical social and political issues, highlighting the expansion of Israeli settlements as a strategic move against Palestinian statehood, the systemic failures contributing to food deserts in urban America, and the lucrative yet exploitative nature of private prisons under the Trump administration. With expert insights from Omar Ocampo and Whitney Wimbish, the discussion underscored the need for government intervention in food accessibility and the urgent reform of immigration detention practices to ensure human rights and equitable access to essential services.

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Notable Quotes:

• Smotrich on West Bank Settlements:

  “Anyone who tries today in the world to recognize a Palestinian state will receive an answer from us on the ground.” (00:19)

• Matt Binder on Annexation:

  “There is a literal 'Lebensraum.' That's what Israel's after.” (12:45)

• Meltdown Segment:
  [While interactions between hosts occurred, content was non-informative and excluded from this summary.]

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Timestamps Reference:

• [00:00–00:19] - Introductory segments and sponsor mentions (Skipped)
• [00:19] - Introduction of main topics and Smotrich’s announcement
• [06:18] - Matt Binder’s explanation of "facts on the ground"
• [10:24–11:56] - Discussion on Greater Israel and regional implications
• [13:23–17:03] - Pete Buttigieg’s controversial statements on Gaza
• [21:18–42:54] - Interview with Omar Ocampo on food deserts
• [45:13–69:56] - Interview with Whitney Wimbish on private prisons
• [63:25–70:24] - Fun half with non-content segments (Skipped)

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Note: This summary focuses on the substantive discussions and excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and unrelated segments to provide a cohesive overview of the episode's main content.

Transcript

[Emma Vigeland]

You are listening to a free version of Majority Report with Sam Steater. To support this show and get another 15 minutes of daily program, go to Majority FM please.

[Sam Cedar]

The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.

[Emma Vigeland]

It is Thursday, August 14, 2025. My name is Emma Vigeland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Omar Ocampo joins us to talk about Zoran Mamdani's city owned grocery store plan and why it can and has worked. And later in the show, Whitney Curry Wimbish joins us of the American Prospect and our own AM Quickie. We will be talking about private prisons raking in profits under Trump's deportation regime. Also on the program, Israeli Finance Minister Smotrich announces approval of a key west bank settlement, explicitly saying that this will quote, bury a Palestinian state. West bank settler attacks have reached an all time high as well. Pete Buttigieg, feeling the heat, tries to clarify his non answer about the Gaza genocide with another non answer. Yes, we have this whole, maybe we'll get to that in the fun half. He said it to Politico. Putin is reportedly going to try to appeal to Trump's business interests in their Alaska meeting tomorrow. I mean, yes, two plus two equals four. Turns out that Trump's pick for the Bureau of Labor Statistics head was at January 6th. That doesn't seem great. Meanwhile, July data on wholesale prices shows significant inflation, the highest monthly gain since June 2020 22. Remember the Pro bono work Trump got those big law firms to agree to in their settlements? Well, now Trump wants them to negotiate his tariff deals for him for free. Those law firms like, you know, the pro bono work was getting incarcerated people out of prison and stuff like that. No, no, just give the president free legal services for his tariff stuff. Insanity. Anyway, a man who threw a sandwich at an ICE officer in D.C. is being hit with felony charges. Trump wants to circumvent Congress to extend his 30 day police state performance art. In Washington, D.C. the administration drops enforcement actions against 165 corporations. And lastly, at least 26 people have died after a boat carrying migrants off the coast of Italy sank. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show, everybody. It's an M Majority Report Thursday. Hello to Matt, hello to Brian, hello to everyone in the audience. We've got a great show for you. We'll start here with what is the biggest news of the day, which is this West Bank Settlement News Israeli Finance Minister Smotrich explicitly said yesterday or earlier today that Netanyahu and the Israeli government alongside President Donald Trump and Israeli Ambassador Mike Huckabee. It's he explicitly said says this in this video agreed to revive this E1 settlement plan. But let's hear from Smotrich first announcing this at this site and he says it right in this clip that this buries the idea of a Palestinian state. I will talk over this and read the captions for the podcast audience. Today we are finally fulfilling the promise and connecting Maale Adumim to Jerusalem, our one and only capital in strategic security and demographic connection that ensures our capital remains united for generations to come. I want to first and foremost thank President Trump and his team and Ambassador Huckabee, true friends of Israel like we have never had in the world. Anyone who tries today in the world to recognize a Palestinian state will receive an answer from us on the ground. Facts on the ground. Not in documents, not in decisions or declarations, but in facts. In the facts of houses, in the facts of neighborhoods, roads and more. Jewish families will build lives. They will talk about the false Palestinian dream. We will continue to build a fulfilling Jewish reality. This reality ultimately buries the idea of a Palestinian state simply because there is nothing to recognize and no one to recognize. I wish our Western press would accurately reflect the attitudes of the Israeli government, including the fact that this is widely supported within Israeli society. He said it right there. When I said facts on the ground, I didn't realize he was going to explicitly say the words facts. Matt, can you explain the origin of that phrase?

[Matt Binder]

Well, I mean, just as he said it, regardless of anything like international law saying things like people that have been removed from a land due to conquest have a right to return to that land. The facts say otherwise. The facts being just continued settlements of Israelis.

[Emma Vigeland]

And this is significant in the facts on the ground that this would create. This isn't a plan called the E1 plan, which is really important to understand and why this had been considered a bit of a red line for past Israeli prime ministers and US Presidents had told them no up until this moment, in part because Donald Trump received $100 million from Miriam Adelson and the quid pro quo, as was reported, was annexation of the West Bank. This is key to creating west bank annexation Facts on the ground. So there's let's pull up this thread here by Daniel Sederman who explains why this E1 plan is so important because so like I'll preface it by saying The Green Line. When people talk about the Green Line, that's the internationally recognized borders between Israel and Palestine that Israel has been in violation of since 1967 when they settled the west bank, stole land. And you'll hear about occupied East Jerusalem. That is also when Israel occupied East Jerusalem, which is supposed to be Palestinian territory. They've been illegally doing so since 1967. And this E1 settlement, if we can pull this up here, the second part of this thread would. Here it is. E1 has long been considered by virtually all of the international community as the doomsday settlement. E1 will dismember the West bank into two cantons, making a viable Palestinian state impossible. It will seal off Jerusalem from the west bank, preventing a Palestinian capital. Let's pull up this map so you can see here occupied East Jerusalem and E1 in yellow. And there's also the other settlement that is circled there, that is on the western side of it. So E1 is in between a major Israeli settlement, or, sorry, to the east of it, and East Jerusalem is to the West. And E1 would be in the center. So that basically creates more and more land division between occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank. So they've done this already with the Gaza Strip. You know that if you look at a map, the Gaza Strip is separated from the bulk of Palestinian territory in the West Bank. They also divided leadership there to make it more difficult to have a Palestinian state. And they have been trying with this E1 plan to build since 1996. And Western leaders had reported, have repeatedly told them no. But now they've got their best friend in office, Donald Trump, and they're panicked about seeing, like France recognize a Palestinian state, Canada doing the same. Which we know again, that Palestinian statehood with the current facts on the ground is impossible unless they were to remove these settlers. But we also believe in a right to return and one democratic state, which is there's currently a one state reality where Israel controls the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza, and they're committing genocide in one of those territories and then actively acceleratingly ethnically cleansing in the west bank and illegally occupying that third piece in, in East Jerusalem for decades. So that is the significance of the story here.

[Matt Binder]

I mean, it's what we talked with Jasper Nathaniel about. The annexation is happening. And it isn't just Huckabee and Trump. Why was Bill Clinton talking about Judea and Samaria in fucking Michigan during the election? It's because largely the Zionist politicians that run our country, pro Israel politicians that run our country have accepted this. The only problem is how do you sell it to a world that finds it repulsive?

[Emma Vigeland]

But.

[Matt Binder]

But it also needs to be said that it doesn't just stop at the West Bank. There is a bibi is now being opened about the vision of Greater Israel, which extends into Jordan and Syria, just across Middle East Saudi Arabia. There's this new article of the Times of Israel. Arab nations fume after Netanyahu says he feels connection to vision of Greater Israel.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, why would they fume when he's saying, we're going to take their land? Saying, I'm going to take your land, you're next.

[Matt Binder]

And that is. That is the. The. That is what will happen if Western powers continue appeasing or indeed being complicit with this. These land grabbers.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, Israel's been occupying Syria currently. They have also been incurring into land in Lebanon, in the north, let alone bombing civilians in that entire period in Lebanon. This is a rogue genocidal state that is in this period of time where they feel like they can accelerate their militarism to grab as much land and kill as many Palestinians as they possibly can.

[Matt Binder]

This is just a. And this is. They've been clear about this. This is like the supposedly marginal fringe of Israeli society that we're not supposed to pay attention to, despite them being in the driver's seat for our entire lives. And everything else is just PR to try to deny and give a bedtime story for what's actually happening, which is there is a literal. What do you call it in the German Lebensraum. That's what Israel's after. And it's just clear there's a Hitlerian Nazi type march to take over and be belligerent with other countries. And we're just saying, well, maybe it's very complicated, right? People judge. It's not. It's very clear. There's just an invested interest in lying to people about it because the more people see what's actually happening, the more people reject it.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, while we were on the Buttigieg, I wasn't planning on doing this, but it ties into our conversation here. I find it fascinating that Buttigieg had to walk his comments back here because his answer on Pod Save America was so disastrous and embarrassing and didn't meet the moment that he went to Politico to try to clarify this. This is this their podcast playbook explaining. Because I guess this was a conversation that was just in text explaining the how. Why Buttigieg, I guess, felt the need to say this to Politico.

[Matt Binder]

Do you want to take a second stab at that?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, And I.

[Omar Ocampo]

It's.

[Emma Vigeland]

I do think it's also interesting when you hear their framing of it, because obviously, Politico is as DC Beltway as it gets. And talk. If we're talking about facts on the ground about, you know, Israel standing in the United States, the way that they even talk about this as a liability for Buttigieg is a huge shift that.

[Whitney Curry Wimbish]

You'Re going to want to read for both its 2028 implications and for a better sense of how opinions within the Democratic Party are shifting on Israel and Gaza. Recently, former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg made an appearance on the influential Pod Save America podcast, after which he caught incoming fire over his response to a question.

[Matt Binder]

Can we just chill with some of the language?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, fair enough.

[Unknown]

Okay, sorry, simple question.

[Matt Binder]

We've seen people be ripped apart by this now.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, right, right, right. Words are violence according to Zionists, though.

[Whitney Curry Wimbish]

So about Gaza, an answer which critics thought was especially mealy mouth.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, it's so interesting, Adam, because Buddha Judge is known for being such an excellent communicator and really being able to distill and help digest some of these.

[Matt Binder]

Really among you people.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sorry, complicated topic. So I was surprised by the story, but it looks like he's trying to do a little bit of cleanup and clarifying, and he is doing that with you, my friend. You talked to him. So I'm so curious to hear what his message was on take two on this question.

[Whitney Curry Wimbish]

He sort of acknowledged that he wasn't as clear as he could have been. He said a, quote, I get it, end quote. He said, quote, it's important to be clear about something this enormous and this painful. It's just that it's so enormous and it's so painful that sometimes words can fail. Essentially. I asked him the same questions that the Pod Save hosts asked him, whether or not if he was a member of the Senate, that he would have voted against sending additional arms to Israel. And he said, yes, he would have voted against that. I asked him where he was at on naming Palestine as a state, and he essentially said that he thought just words on a paper didn't have a lot of meaning, but he thought it should be a negotiated process. And then also asked him just about how he was processing these images out of Gaza.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, as a father. Okay, all right, all right, all right. But I just wanted to get through that, because, no, the answer didn't change at all. He threw in, oh, yeah. If I would have Voted to block arms sales to Israel. I mean, it's already happened. I could have spoken out about it at the time, as I'm trying to position myself to run for president. Yeah, not. Well, we know. We know what that answer would be. So what his. His backtrack was, was. I was just so. Basically, emotion. It's so big and hard of a topic that I was unable to articulate myself that he was so overcome with emotion. I also. I won't. I'm not going to commit to recognizing a Palestinian state, which is basically supposedly supposed to be the Democratic Party position for, I don't know, my entire lifetime. I was just too emotional about the topic to give a clear answer.

[Matt Binder]

It's such a big topic in the sense that they gave me $190,000 to run my last presidential campaign, and I'm hoping they might do the same in the. So I'm trying to not do anything to jeopardize that. It's very nuanced, this wanting money for my political ambitions thing.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Matt Binder]

Oh, I mean, sorry, Allyship. We need to have allies that, you know, get out the checkbook every four years.

[Sam Cedar]

No one's saying that. No poll says that.

[Emma Vigeland]

I never really have an opportunity for that one. But that's a little underrated.

[Matt Binder]

He's corrupt. Like, he's corrupt. Pete Buttigieg is bought by Israel.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. Like, you know, I mean, well, and if you can show courage on this now, he's. He was probably shocked by the reaction. Why are. Why are these freaks shocked by the reaction? Israel's military action has an 8% approval rating with Democratic voters. Like, I don't understand this because, I mean, they're corrupt, but because they think that they can get out of it with some sort of, like, you know, he can just speak his way out of it. And that's not how this is going to work, dog.

[Matt Binder]

That's what got him to the dance.

[Emma Vigeland]

Can't change his tricks, I guess. In a moment, we're going to be talking to Omar Ocampo. But first, a word from one of our sponsors. You know, tinted windows on cars are nice. You can have a little bit of privacy. Although I guess you can't do it in the front seat. You're not supposed to be able to do that. But regardless, if you in your fantasy world could have a tinted window for your Internet connection, well, you don't have to make that a fantasy anymore. You can have ExpressVPN that will do that for you. I got there in a very roundabout way, but you can See out, but they cannot see in. Wouldn't you like some more privacy online? Because all your traffic flows through their servers, Internet service providers, including mobile network providers, and they know about every single website that you visit. And in The United States, ISPs are legally allowed to sell that information to advertisers, while ExpressVPN reroutes 100% of your traffic through secure encrypted servers, so your ISP cannot see your browsing history. Thanks to ESPN ESPN ExpressVPN, I got fancy football on the mind. Thanks to ExpressVPN for sponsoring this episode and for protecting me online. Visit expressvpn.com majority and you can get up to 4.4extra months free. ExpressVPN hides your IP address, making it extremely difficult for third parties to track your online activity. ExpressVPN is super secure. It would take a hacker with a supercomputer over a billion years to get past ExpressVPN's encryption. ExpressVPN is easy to use. Fire up the app, click on one button to get protected, and you can stay private on all of your devices, your phone, your laptop, tablets, and more. So you can stay private on the go. ExpressVPN is a go to for me when I'm in an airport, when I'm at a coffee shop, which I like to do, do some work there occasionally, and you just fire it up, click, you're good to go. Protect your online privacy today by visiting expressvpn.com Majority that's E X P R-E-S-S V P N.com to find out how you can get up to four extra months. Free expressvpn.com Majority link below in the video description on YouTube and in the podcast expressvpn.com Majority all right, quick break and when we come back, we will be talking to Omar about Zoran City Run grocery plan and why it's a good thing.

[Sam Cedar]

Sam.

[Emma Vigeland]

We are back and we are joined now by Omar Ocampo, researcher at the Program on Inequality and the Common Good at the Institute for Policy Studies. Omar, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[Unknown]

Thank you for having me. And a big shout out to all of your listeners and viewers.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, thanks so much. It's a good way to start off the interview by sucking up to our audience. I would encourage that for all of our guests. So let's talk a little bit about food deserts before we get into the specifics of Mamdani's plan for New York City. Can you define what food deserts are and how many people are affected in this country by them?

[Unknown]

Yeah. So interestingly, there's actually no universal definition for a food desert, but most scholars and researchers agree that food deserts are areas where the access to healthy and affordable food is limited. So a resident who lives in a rural community, their closest grocery store is more than 10 miles away, or for an urban resident, is more than a mile away. And a mile away may not sound like a far distance, but when a household does not own a car or just no reliable public transportation, then purchasing groceries could present a challenge. And it's this lack of access and this lack of infrastructure that contributes to food insecurity and hunger in the country. But interestingly, depending on the town or the neighborhood that you live in, food deserts can also be in a dialectical relationship with what are called food swamps. Even though there's a lack of nutritious food or access to fresh and nutritious food, there's an abundance of convenience stores and food, fast food restaurants. This could have adverse health outcomes for residents, like increased rates of diabetes and cardiovascular disease. One last thing I would want to say about food deserts is that this is a relatively new phenomenon, didn't really exist 50 years ago. So it's interesting to try to look at what some of the causes of food deserts are.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, the primary cause appears to be, at least to me, the fact that it's not profitable to put a grocery store in one specific location. And you write about how a lot of grocery stores are family owned and passed down to generations, even these kind of more private conglomerates. And it's quite difficult to compel them to put a store in a place where, you know, they, they're not sure they're going to make a profit or whatever. If you could just talk a little bit more about that dynamic.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So I would identify two reasons, and the first reason is exactly that, that there's the lack of profitability. You know, the food deserts tend to appear in lower income neighborhoods, and maybe the residents do not have the buying power to financially support their local grocery stores. And as a result, new grocers don't want to invest in specific neighborhoods because they expect to lose money or even some of the grocery stores that are already there, they would prefer to transfer to a more affluent part of the city or to a wealthy suburban neighborhood because they can expect higher revenue, higher rate of return. But this just means that thousands of low income neighborhoods are underserved and have to travel long distances for fresh produce. But the second reason is more of a structural reason. For why food deserts exist. And that's because of market concentration and price discrimination. So six grocery chains control about two thirds of the market. And this oligopoly power gives them advantage over smaller retailers because they have the resources to purchase food at a high volume from distributors and they can pressure wholesalers to sell them food at a cheaper price. So this forces distributors to charge smaller grocers higher prices to offset the discounts that they give, let's say Whole Foods or Walmart. So the small store is forced to buy food at a higher price and when they do, they pass on that extra cost to the customer. And that customer may say, well it might be worth me driving 10 miles to my Walmart to get cheaper food. And then the smaller grocers go out of business. It's a bad cycle. And there's actually laws on the books that tackle this problem, but it's just not enforced.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. Well, I mean, I'm reminded of the, that Lina Khan in the last administration helping kill that Kroger's merger, which was a significant win. Right. But that level of market concentration would have made things even worse. And this problem being national I think is really important too because it can. Food deserts, as you say, can look different in an urban space where I mean, asking somebody to walk a mile with groceries in their hands, especially if you're older or you're disabled, I mean that's basically impossible. But it still basically has the same impact on the community regardless of where it is in the country.

[Unknown]

Absolutely. And one other thing about Lina Khan, she actually tried to resurrect this law that was called the Robinson Patman act. And she also filed a price discrimination lawsuit against Pepsi because they were offering lower prices to Walmart compared and higher prices to Walmart's competitors. But the Trump administration completely dropped it. Yeah, so, but yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. You know, this is why, you know, it's interesting, the backlash against city owned grocery stores in general because even neoclassical economists accept that the government intervention, that government intervention is appropriate when there's market failure or when the private sector is unable to provide a good or service. So the conditions right now are appropriate for public investment into a state owned or city owned enterprise. So in New York City there are more than a dozen neighborhoods that are considered food deserts. And the alternative to not having city ownership is to deny these communities access to fresh and healthy food, which is completely unacceptable.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. So let's talk then about New York City more specifically or before we get to that, you write about for Example, the United States military having publicly owned grocery stores and that potentially being a model for this, not just in New York, but if we're looking at municipally owned grocery stores around the country, perhaps we could see this as an example. Why are these military owned grocery stores so popular and so successful?

[Unknown]

Yeah, so yes, the US Military run has a commissary system, that's what they call the grocery stores. And basically the Department of Defense or an agency within the Department of Defense operates over 240 grocery stores, commissaries, and then five are actually located in New York State, including one in Brooklyn. And all the goods sold in these commissaries are not sold at a profit, but they do cover the cost of the goods. And one of the reasons why they're very successful is that basically the military, the Department of Defense covers most of its operating costs. So basically they're essentially subsidized. They do charge like a 5% surcharge on some of the products to help cover. But mainly it's, mainly it's just the US government covering the operational costs and ensuring that, you know, the military, then their families are able to get groceries are normally 20 to 30% cheaper than what you would find in a regular grocery store. So yeah, so there's, there's one in Brooklyn for Hamilton, you know, that could be a model and where the future mayor, if he wins Mandani, he can go there and see how it works, learn the intricacies of the business, get some training and be able to operate a city owned grocery store in each borough.

[Emma Vigeland]

So then his proposal, New York City you mentioned has over two dozen neighborhoods that are considered food deserts, which is astounding given, you know, just the size population wise of New York, but also like it's relatively, it's incredibly densely populated. So it feels like this could be a solvable problem. And Zoran's plan looks to do that.

[Unknown]

Yeah, to. So he is proposing to allocate $60 million to basically create city owned grocery stores. From my research, he hasn't actually given that many details, but actually consider that a strength because there are different ways to run a city owned grocery store. So for example, you could have. One of the more successful grocery stores that I have looked at was one in Kansas, in St. Paul, Kansas. There's a St. Paul supermarket and it's the city that owns the property, the building, the business and the inventory. It's all owned by the city government and they've been in operation for more than a decade. So before that grocery store, you Know the people, the residents had to travel 17 miles. But then there's also other models where, you know, the city can own the building, they can own the infrastructure, they can be in charge of maintenance and repairs and buying equipment, but then they could lease the property to maybe a worker co op or they could have a nonprofit with industry expertise in order to manage the daily operations of the grocery store. So it would still fall under the rubric of something that Citi owned. And, and that also helps lower costs for the nonprofit because they don't have to spend all these resources on maintenance, upkeep and rent and et cetera.

[Emma Vigeland]

And the expense of it just feels quite low. This is not a full subsidy for free food. This is basically just making it so that there is an option for folks that can be run in a way where the prices aren't jacked up on them. But also that the city doesn't have to pay for that much. Right. Because they're still paying for the goods.

[Unknown]

Correct. The goal would be to ensure that the city, that New York City is able to buy this food at wholesale prices. And this is the way basically the all five grocery stores, they can purchase food in bulk or maybe even other smaller grocers can join the city owned grocery stores in order to buy, in order to form basically a purchasing cooperative where other grocers are able to buy food with the city at high volume in order to get the same discounts that a Walmart gets. So either the either Mamdani can create or join one of these purchasing cooperatives or maybe you can even join the commissary in Brooklyn and placing their orders with their distributor to get the cheaper prices because the military already has access to these cheaper prices because they buy so much in bulk and basically you're going to sell it at cost. So it's not a price control because the price control says you can't charge over a certain amount. So if you, if the wholesale price is $7 today, but then next week it's $8, it will sell for $8. So, so yeah, so it's not, it's not a price control.

[Emma Vigeland]

So the question is why do then these grocery grocers care, these grocery conglomerates, why are they throwing a fit? You know, I guess it's the guy, the d' Agostino heir or whatever, the Gristides guy. I forget who's the one that's going on Fox News all the time and the Grassetes guy, crazy guy going on and freaking out about this. Like if they're Already not doing business in these areas. I mean, they're, I guess, concerned about the fact that they're going to have to compete.

[Unknown]

Correct. You know, and I think we need to remember that is one of the reasons why Mom Daniel's project is being carried out in the first place. Market forces in the private sector have failed to keep prices down. It is the market that has given the private sector the incentive to abandon working class neighborhoods and deprive them of healthy food options. And, you know, large private grocers have already failed in these communities. I also think that, you know, city owned grocery stores can also generate a new conversation about market concentration and add some more competition in the market. So therefore the local mom and pop and independently owned grocery stores are able to, to compete because this is what it's about. It's basically to protect their market concentrations and their profits, which admittedly it runs at a small profit margin. But when you're a big store like Walmart, the volume that you sell means that you have big profits.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right? Well, that was mostly what I was hoping to discuss with you. But you also wrote another piece debunking some of the, the capital flight concerns about Zoran Mamdani's proposal basically to slightly raise taxes on folks that are earning over a million dollars to help fund certain proposals, including free buses. Can you speak a little bit about that myth and why it persists and why it is a myth?

[Unknown]

Yeah, so this past spring I did write a report. Basically the main focus was actually Massachusetts. So Massachusetts actually passed a 4% surtax on individuals with a million dollars or more. So before the surtax, Massachusetts had a flat income tax. Everyone paid 5%, no matter how much money you made. And immediately, as soon as it was proposed, everyone said everyone's going to move to Florida. Everyone is going to avoid this tax. 4% tax is such a big burden on people who have million dollar incomes. I looked at some of the wealth data and there's actually Massachusetts actually seen an increase of people with a net worth over a million dollars. And the reason why that is because Massachusetts has a dynamic economy, economic opportunity is there. One of the reasons this is just a way for this myth that people are just going to leave if there's a small increase in your tax obligation. The reason that myth exists is because they're trying to keep as much money of theirs as possible. I think it's an ideological project that they say they want to deprive the state of resources. Interestingly, I can give a good example of, let's say Governor Ron DeSantis. He says we don't want to raise a lot of taxes because then we'll start doing Democrat things in the state. I think it's an ideological project. In Massachusetts, you know, you can't deny that for some people, if you raise their taxes, they're going to leave this. There's going to be, it's going to be inevitable, especially if you're young, especially if like, you're like, say like you're 27, you got rich off crypto or something. You know, you might want to, you're, you're going to, you know, move. But the thing is, is that moving is actually something that younger people do and not older people. So because usually if you earn over a million dollars a year, you tend to, you know, you know, be a senior management, which means that you're more closely tied to your, your location of your place of business, you know, that you have family. So therefore it's like going to be, it's going to cost a lot to uproot, you know, the, you know, basically everything, you know, that you like, you already. You don't have to move to opportunity because you're already there. That's basically the crux of the argument and basically what actually the data shows. So Massachusetts actually is raising more money than actually expected from the millionaire's tax, which actually suggests that the tax is working and people are not fleeing in droves. And now in Massachusetts, all kids in public schools that get free lunch provided community college is now free across the state. In New York, there's already a progressive taxation system. I think if you were to just raise it 2% on people with a million dollars, it won't have that much of an impact on their decision to move or not. If it was like 10%, then I think I might actually buy that argument. But 2%, it's that those who will leave will be statistically insignificant.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, I do think that there, when you talk about it being ideological, there's a fear that these folks have of these big cities throwing their weight around because New York City is not going to change in cultural or financial relevance because of a small increase on millionaires. And this is that class of millionaires and billionaires saying, well, billionaires, I mean, God, they could, they can eat this, although they will still complain, but like, they want to be able. It's because they are going to say that they're. That they're complaining so much is basically my, my assessment of it. Because people want to be in New York. People want to be in la and then there's a lot of people that want to be in Massachusetts. It's a university hub and all of that.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I mean these are also cities with a lot of amenities and that's what makes, that's what makes these cities attractive and why people want to move there. Because A, there's economic opportunity and B, there's the good infrastructure, good public transportation. There's a lot of things to do. And I think the fear also on why they don't want increased taxation is because then other states will follow. So for example, after Massachusetts, there's been some success average in revenue for two years in a row, again raising more than what they expected. Rhode island is now proposing their own version of a tax on the top 1%. And this is causing panic amongst the anti tax movement by saying that you're just going to destroy the tax base of the state, but then you just look up your neighbor, they've done it. And Massachusetts is wealthier and now they're providing some public services to the city. And this is also another important point is that you gotta make sure that people see the investment from the tax revenue that you collect from this tax. And in Massachusetts you're seeing it. They're expanding public transportation infrastructure. As I mentioned before, community colleges are free, school lunches are free. They're wiping off the debt of the mbta, which is the, the public transit system in Boston. So yeah, it's all a myth and it's basically to ensure that the anti tax movement, they're just against anything that requires taxation.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yep. Well, Omar, really appreciate your time today. Researcher at the Program on Inequality and the Common Good at the Institute for Policy Studies. Thanks so much for your time today. Really appreciate it.

[Unknown]

Thank you for having me.

[Emma Vigeland]

Of course. All right folks, quick break and when we come back, we will be talking to Whitney Wimbish, staff writer at the American Prospect, co writer of our own AM Quickie. We'll be talking about private prisons and how they are raking it in under Donald Trump. Be right back.

[Sam Cedar]

It's.

[Emma Vigeland]

We are back and we are joined now by Whitney Curry Wimbish, staff writer at the American Prospect and co author of the AM Quickie, which I really, really recommend people check out. I recommended it to people like some folks don't want to say have a subscription to the New York Times anymore because of the way they've covered the genocide in Gaza. And I'm like, this is how you get your news AM Quickie. So great work on that, Whitney. Thanks for coming on the show.

[Omar Ocampo]

Thanks, Emma. Thanks for having me.

[Emma Vigeland]

Of course. So you have been writing about Trump's immigration policies and specifically, we can start with one of your more recent stories on this, which is about how private prisons are just raking in money right now. You open your piece talking about the earnings call that they recently had for their second quarter. Perhaps we can start there just to give people a sense of how much money these companies are making right now.

[Omar Ocampo]

Sure. So these are companies, Geo Group and CoreCivic, that the US government uses to run its detention centers. And a lot of times they own the building, and then other times the US Government owns the building and they will provide the services. These are referred to as private prison companies, but they are public companies. So that means that you can listen into their earnings calls and you can read financial documents and see who's making all this money. They had their second quarter earnings calls and they're doing really well because they see the Trump immigration terror campaign as a really long term beneficial thing for them. Like they're planning years and years out to stuff their prisons full of people to do it at, you know, at the lowest cost possible so that they can turn a buck for their shareholders. And they've just gotten, you know, $45 billion more from the US government to do even more of this. I just got off the phone with a couple doctors who specialize in infectious diseases in immigration detention, and they were telling me that they expect that that money is just going to be used to make more money. It's not going to be used to improve the conditions or anything like that. So these guys are making a ton of money. They have revised their outlook upward. That means that they are telling their investors that there's more good news ahead.

[Emma Vigeland]

The quote you had from the Geo Group founder was, quote, unprecedented growth opportunities in front of our company is what they're saying. And they're right.

[Omar Ocampo]

Yeah, they're right. And I think, you know, they are talking about it in terms of beds. So they're adding more beds and they expect that these beds will be filled by a certain point. And then after that, they have a plan to make more money through tracking devices to put on people who aren't eligible for detention, but who are easy targets. They want to be able to just monitor their every move and make sure that they know where they are at all times. So one company has purchased hundreds and hundreds more like ankle bracelets. And another company is expecting that their long term way to make even more money is to buy vehicles so that they can kind of shuttle people around. We've already seen that, you know, these detention sites are getting overcrowded and people are being moved from one spot to another, often without their attorneys or their families knowing. And so one of the companies thinks that that's the way to go. They're going to increase their revenue by making themselves available to just kind of shuffle people around.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. So that was Geo Group you were writing. I have that down. And they're basically. This is on, on the heels of some reporting, I read in the Washington Post that basically they're trying to exponentially expand their ankle monitoring operation for migrants. There's some tens of thousands, I think, who currently have this ankle monitoring of an ankle monitor with immigration. But they want to make it. Their Target is nearly 200,000.

[Omar Ocampo]

Yeah. Like they see this massive population that they can just.

[Emma Vigeland]

Surveil.

[Omar Ocampo]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's hard to accept that this is reality.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. And, and the, the money that the federal government is, is providing for these companies. Can you expand a little bit on that and how much of these earnings that they're so excited about are subsidized with our tax dollars?

[Omar Ocampo]

I don't have insight into how much at this point their earnings are subsidized by our taxes, but, you know, their budget is, their main customers are the federal government. So we can bank on a lot. The thing that I found just kind of broke my brain a little bit was in some of these corporate filings that both companies have to produce. You can see who the top earners are. They will list out which executives are the highest paid and who they are, their background, where they come from. And there is this revolving door between these two companies and the ICE employees and the Bureau of Prisons. And so, you know, you can spend a career in ICE and then go make money working for one of these companies. And it's. I don't know, it's. It's gross.

[Emma Vigeland]

One of the, those folks people will be familiar with Tom Holman, who seems to himself be getting quite rich off of Geo Group, one of the companies that you write about. Can you speak about his relationship with them?

[Omar Ocampo]

So Tom Holman is an interesting character. He is an old friend and former colleague of David Venturella. He is obviously helping run Stephen Miller's deportation campaign, but he's also drawing compensation of about 6 million bucks. Oh, no, that's Venturella. He drew compensation of 6 million bucks to consult for Geo Group. And Homan has kind of earned this unannounced pot of money running, running as a Consultant for that same company. So, you know, these guys have like a lot of incentive to expand detention and stuff as many people as they can into these centers and really immiserate, you know, immigrants in this country who make this country run.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. I mean, gosh, I'm old enough to remember when Dick Cheney's relationship with Halliburton was considered a major conflict in his incentives for the Iraq war. But even then he at least made efforts to pretend like, oh, I have my distance from Halliburton and those profits at this point, like Tom Holman is serving in the administration and is taking fees from one of these private prison companies. Is that what you're telling me?

[Omar Ocampo]

Yeah. As a consultant. Yeah. And you know, these companies also, at least in. I think it's Geo Group. Let me go back to my story. I don't want to say the wrong thing. Sure.

[Emma Vigeland]

I, I believe it is Geo Group. If you're talking about Venturella. Yeah.

[Omar Ocampo]

There's also kind of this like family tie there. Like that company employs members of the same family. In one case the son in law of the top guy and he's making half a million bucks a year or he did in his, according to the last filing. So it's this, it's just, it's just really gross, you guys.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. So you also have been doing some reporting on what's been happening here in New York City down on Federal Plaza where Brad Lander has been doing some great work as a monitor and going to support some folks at these immigration hearings. Speak a little bit about what you've been observing there as a reporter because it's been a bit of a central focus of when people have been getting deported. They've been going to these hearings there and it's been in the news a lot.

[Omar Ocampo]

Yeah, it's so jarring to listen to an earnings call where these guys are very self congratulatory and they're so excited and the analysts who are on the call are congratulating them about the great returns and the sunny future. What's happening in immigration court at 26 Federal Plaza that is enabling those folks to have such a great time and make all this money is, it's horrific. It's like it's hard to accept that it is happening before my face. Like people will go into a hearing thinking, okay, I'm showing up, I'm doing what I'm supposed to, I'm coming to this hearing, I've been coming to hearings and, and I'll do my next thing, and then go back home. And they'll get an extension or a new date or some progress made on their asylum claim or another claim to stay in the country. And they'll come out of one of these immigration judges courtrooms, their little rooms, and just be surrounded by a pack of guys with masks on, weapons, the whole thing. And the guys, they kind of have changed their strategy over the course of the couple months that I've been going. They used to follow their targets into an elevator and not say anything and then detain them there where nobody would be watching. There wouldn't be any reporters. There's always a ton of photojournalists. Shout out to all the photojournalists at 26 Federal Plaza. They're there every single day. That was one approach that has kind of shifted a little bit, where now they will just flock around someone as they come out of the detention center, and then they'll hustle them as fast as possible into a stairwell or into an elevator and take them wherever they take them. Sometimes they get taken to the 10th floor, which is the kind of, like, makeshift detention site that was recently reported as being just, like, horrific conditions. And I think a judge, not yesterday, but the day before, said that ICE has to immediately improve the conditions because they are so disgusting.

[Emma Vigeland]

And that's not in Alligator Alcatraz or anything like that. These are conditions just in basic immigration holdings.

[Omar Ocampo]

Yeah. And on the 10th floor. That area is not meant to be used as a holding place for days and days and days, but people are being held there for weeks. And it's just a cement box. There's no place to sleep. The toilets are out in the open. You know, there's no medical facility. People are being denied their medication. Girls aren't being girls, and women aren't being given enough, like, sanitation pads. One of the findings that came out of in the lawsuit recently, the one that requires now that they clean up their act immediately. You know, girls were just, like, bleeding through their clothes because ICE agents gave them two pads for the entire. So, like, really disgusting, just like inhumane, cruel treatment. And there's really no rhyme or reason that you can tell on the outside why someone gets snatched. The pro bono lawyers and the court watchers who are there to help are kind of like, we don't know what's on this list or what makes somebody a target. But once you get put in this. In this system now, unless you have an attorney or unless you have somebody looking for you, you are basically disappeared. It's just, you're in the system, no one knows what happens to you. It's hard to get any information about people who are hidden in there. I tried to go to the 10th floor to see the conditions for myself. You kind of come up through the elevator and you get dumped out into this little hallway, and there are big doors on either side. And within seconds, there were two agents who were like, are you lost? What are you doing here? And, you know, I couldn't get in and see it for myself.

[Emma Vigeland]

And the catch 22 of it that you describe as well is that people are trying to do the right thing to avoid the deportation, and they're going to their hearings and they show up, and the same thing is happening to them.

[Omar Ocampo]

Yeah, these are folks who are following the rules. They're not the, you know, the worst of the worst or whatever the Trump administration keeps saying. These are people who are following the rules, who don't have money for an attorney. There's no guarantee for an attorney in immigration court the way there is in criminal court. You can have one, but you have to pay for it yourself or you can, you know, find a pro bono one if there's a service in your area. Those folks are really overworked. So it's. You know, a lot of people show up alone. I went to and sat in a judge's room a few days ago, and one of the things that's happening is that people just aren't showing up anymore. You know, they can make the calculation themselves that even if they want to do the right thing, you know, it's too dangerous, so they're just not coming. The problem with that is that a judge can then issue an immediate order for removal, and then it's anybody's guess what happens. You might be at work, and ICE could show up there. They might knock on your door in the middle of the night. So there's really no great solution. But in this judge's courtroom that I was in, zero people had an attorney, and, you know, the judge was the judge and the clerk who, who was working for him were both trying to do everything they possibly could to give these guys a chance to walk out of the building safely. They were, you know, repeatedly asking people, do you want more time to get a lawyer? Do you know how to get a lawyer? Like, you know, trying to walk people through what the process was. And even in instances where the judge said, you know, you have a pretty credible asylum claim, I'm going to grant you a hearing date for 2026. You know, these people walked out of the courtroom thinking that they had good news. A whole year to find. To find legal representation, and they were just snatched.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's just absolutely. I mean, they're trying to create this level of anxiety on purpose. And the damned if you do, damned if you don't dynamic here is especially cruel. But that's what we have in this administration. Whitney, I really appreciate your time today. People should all follow your work over at the American Prospect, Read your pieces. I mean, people should be following the Prospect by now if they're listeners of this show. Thanks so much. Have a great day.

[Omar Ocampo]

Thanks, Emma. Take care.

[Emma Vigeland]

Thanks. You too. Bye. Bye. All right, well, with that gonna wrap up the first hour of the show, Head into the fun half. The not free portion of the show that you can get access to if you become a [e-mail] also.

[Matt Binder]

It's free.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, yeah. I mean, secretly. But you can IM the show pretty open.

[Matt Binder]

See, it's like a Lindsey Graham style open secret.

[Emma Vigeland]

Mm. Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to get membership, so thanks for that, but you can. I am the show. I know. I mean, it's. Oh, whoa. It's Brandon. Hey. No, it's all right. Brandon from the void.

[Brandon Sutton]

Yes, this week I'm broadcasting live from the Islamo communist Republic of Londonistan, where Shah. Shah. Is shah the right word for Sadiq Khan? It doesn't really matter. Sultan. Sultan Sadiq Khan rules with a mighty fist, and everyone is forced to reduce their congestion. Hello.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hello. I'm sure what you said made sense, but I don't know if I could follow any of.

[Matt Binder]

Looks like you've transcended.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Brandon Sutton]

That's what it's like to be in the Islamo communist Republic of London. It's just one big void that we all live in. I'm just pure energy now.

[Matt Binder]

You're connecting us from a literal cloud.

[Unknown]

Not the cloud, exactly.

[Brandon Sutton]

Once. Once Sultan Mamdani becomes the mayor of New York, you will be fortunate enough to experience this exact same level of transcendence.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, you're really selling me on it. It looks heavenly there. But it might just be because you're in Europe and not here in the United States, which sucks now.

[Brandon Sutton]

Oh, no, it's. It's great there.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, yeah. I don't know. I'm not so sure about that. What's happening over on the Discourse?

[Brandon Sutton]

Well, I am taking the this week off from streaming since I am not in my normal location, hence everything. But we will be back next week both live and in color on Monday. So now's a great time to run over and join the Discourse with Brandon Sutton on YouTube or Twitch and get caught up on our last few streams. We've learned a lot about the shape of the Earth. Recently, we've learned a lot about AI extreme weather. So, you know, perfect time to catch up.

[Matt Binder]

We're still learning stuff about the shape of the Earth, huh? I thought we pretty much had that.

[Brandon Sutton]

I know. Honestly, whether you believe it's flat or it's spherical, we're learning new stuff about the shape of the earth every day.

[Emma Vigeland]

There's good ideas on both sides of that. All right, check out the Discourse and say hello to Matt Binder, who is a newsletter author. Has his shows too. Busy guy. What's happening over there on your end, Binder?

[Unknown]

Hey, how are you?

[Emma Vigeland]

Good, good.

[Unknown]

Just go to YouTube.com mattbinder make sure you're subscribed there.

[Emma Vigeland]

Leftist mafia tonight at 8:30pm Eastern time. Disruptionist.com subscribe to the newsletter and. Yeah, that's.

[Unknown]

Make sure you do all that.

[Emma Vigeland]

All right. Do it. Where is. Where is.

[Unknown]

Where is Brandon streaming from? Oh, we're not gonna.

[Brandon Sutton]

We're not gonna rehash that.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay, you missed the bit.

[Brandon Sutton]

Yeah, I can't remember anything I said there.

[Emma Vigeland]

But we do have Dave from Jamaica writing and saying Brandon is now consumed by the light of Allah. Allah. So that's. That's a bit of a summary of where we were at. All right, guys, we'll see you on the other side. See you in the fun half.

[Unknown]

Okay, Emma, please.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority reports.

[Sam Cedar]

Wait, look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a vacation at Disney World, so. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show.

[Omar Ocampo]

It is Thursday.

[Matt Binder]

I think you need to take over for Sam.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

Boys, I'm going to pause you right there.

[Omar Ocampo]

Wait, what?

[Sam Cedar]

You can't encourage Emma to live like this. And I'll tell you why. Someone's offered a tour. Sushi and poker with boys. Twerk sushi and poker with torture boys. Who was offered a tour. Yeah, Sushi and poker with boys. What tour? Sushi and poker.

[Emma Vigeland]

Tim's upset.

[Sam Cedar]

Twerk sushi and poker with two boys was offered. Twerk sushi and that's what we called biz. Twerk, sushi and bulker with three boys.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Sam Cedar]

Twerk sushi and we're gonna get demonetized. I just think that what you did to Tim Pool was mean.

[Emma Vigeland]

Free speech.

[Sam Cedar]

That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about it. I think you're responsible.

[Emma Vigeland]

I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.

[Sam Cedar]

Sushi and poker with the boys. Oh, my God. Wow. Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered a tour.

[Omar Ocampo]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Sushi and poker with the boys. Logic. Sushi and poker with the boys. A little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Add this debate 7,000 times. A little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. I don't care. I think I'm like a dick. I'm losing my mind.

[Omar Ocampo]

Some people just don't understand.

[Sam Cedar]

So I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but, like, I absolutely think the US should be providing me with a wife and kids.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's not what we're talking about here.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay?

[Emma Vigeland]

All right.

[Sam Cedar]

It's not a fun job. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. Willy Wonka's work. That's a real thing. That's got a real thing. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. That's a real thing. That's offered to work. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. That's a real thing. That's.

[Brandon Sutton]

I think he might be blowing it out proportion.

[Sam Cedar]

Real thing. That's. Boy that offered a pork. That's a real thing. That's poker. Let's go, Joe. Sushi and poker. Take it easy. Sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker with the boys. Sushi. You don't have a clue as to what's going on. Live YouTube.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sam has the weight of the world on his shoulders. Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore.

[Sam Cedar]

Anymore.

[Emma Vigeland]

It was so much easier when the majority report it was just you.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's change the subject through. Rangers and Knicks are doing great now.

[Emma Vigeland]

Shut up. Don't want people saying reckless things on your program.

[Unknown]

That's one of the most difficult parts about this show.

[Emma Vigeland]

This is the Pro Killing podcast.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury the hatchet.

[Emma Vigeland]

Left his best trump. Violet Twerk.

[Sam Cedar]

Don't be foolish and don't tweet at me.

[Unknown]

And don't. The way Emma has.

[Sam Cedar]

All of these people love it.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's where my heart is. So. So I wrote my honors thesis about it.

[Sam Cedar]

She wrote an honest thesis. I guess I should hand the main mic to you now. You are to the right of me on foreign policy.

[Emma Vigeland]

We already formed Israel, dude. Are you against us?

[Sam Cedar]

That's a tougher question I haven't answered. Incredible theme song.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hi, bumbler.

[Sam Cedar]

Emma Vinland.

[Unknown]

Absolutely one of my favorite people. People, actually.

[Sam Cedar]

Not just in the game, like, period.