← The Majority Report with Sam Seder
The Majority Report with Sam Seder
3563 - The World Leaves Us Behind; Greenland, Minnesota Fights Back w/ Adam Federman & Rep Aisha Gomez
01:19:05
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- [00:01]
Sam Seder
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- [06:45]
Emma Vigland
I was worried. You really know how to. I know the timing for the podcast listening audience. Sam finished the ad, sprinted out of his chair because he realized he did not have his beverage with him and made it back just in time.
- [07:00]
Adam Fetterman
Yep.
- [07:01]
Sam Seder
Can't get the DTs live on air call. Well, it was all that talk about wine at the beginning of the show and so.
- [07:09]
Emma Vigland
So you got your bottle of vodka that you drink every day.
- [07:12]
Sam Seder
Exactly. I mean, frankly, I Don't feel inside. I don't feel that. Too far off from that.
- [07:20]
Emma Vigland
I. Soon enough. Well, our Fridays are gonna get really casual.
- [07:25]
Sam Seder
Exactly. And they're gonna start somewhere around like.
- [07:28]
Adam Fetterman
Tuesday, Thursday, Thursday.
- [07:30]
Emma Vigland
The fun half will just be us face down on the desk.
- [07:35]
Sam Seder
So Donald Trump is in Davos. Last night there was a, I want to say a scare, but they're not really. I wasn't scared.
- [07:50]
Emma Vigland
Well, I texted you last night. The plane turned around, excitement, thinking Air.
- [07:57]
Sam Seder
Force One turned around about like, I don't know, 200 miles off the coast of the U.S. i thought like, oh, okay, we're going to invade Iran. We're going to attack Iran, which that may not come for another couple of days. Emma apparently thought that it signified that there was some medical problem with Trump. A succession scenario, truly what I was thinking of.
- [08:23]
Emma Vigland
Yeah.
- [08:23]
Sam Seder
My sense is they would just like, just drop them out the plane and just keep going to Europe.
- [08:30]
Emma Vigland
But that would constitute an environmental hazard given the amount of chemicals on and inside of him.
- [08:36]
Sam Seder
That's true. Nevertheless, Donald Trump is in Davos now. He has just given a speech. We will probably play some of that speech or some of the completely bat crap crazy stuff from his press conference yesterday. He has apparently said in Davos, taken military assault on Greenland off the table, which is nice, is good.
- [09:10]
Emma Vigland
Compromise.
- [09:11]
Sam Seder
I mean, honestly, like I. If you had asked me three hours ago, I would have bet we're going to send 1500 troops in there and we're going to take it over over the course of the next couple of weeks. I don't think that anybody's going to accept an offer to buy Greenland or to sell Greenland, but I guess it remains to be seen. But of all the things happening at Davos, there was a couple of speeches that are really, really important, and only because I think this, you know, it's very difficult to project into the future and see how history is going to look at this era. But there are two speeches. One was by Ursula von de Leyen. She's the president of the eu, but she sort of reiterated at least some of what Canada's Mark Carney said. And there's a lot of politics of Mark Carney's that I'm not necessarily a fan of. But I think historians are going to look back at this speech as the marker not necessarily of the beginning of the end, but perhaps the middle of the end or near the end of the end.
- [10:40]
Matt Leckie
The acknowledgement of the end.
- [10:41]
Sam Seder
Yes. Of what I think both Carney and Vanderlyen said was a rupture but what we're seeing is the end, the genuine end of the post World War II World Order. You know, there was some talk of it ending when the Soviet Union collapsed. And in some respects the opportunity was missed by really all parties involved to change the world order. We had the Project for a New American Century. Dick Cheney and other neocons in the early 90s, right around the time the fall of the Soviet Union were basically plotting it out that the US would be a hegemonic hyper power and oversee tiny conflicts that existed in regional areas that would keep everybody busy from sort of like organizing against the United States. And we would have hegemonic power over the world, largely economically and to some extent that's the way it was through the 90s. And Iraq probably was, and I'm sure some would argue also just sort of like globalization in general was certainly inevitable in terms of undermining US Hegemony. But Iraq certainly showed that we were a bit of a paper tiger and who knows if things could have gone in a different direction. But I do think that yesterday this speech is going to be pointed to because it's convenient. And it's also the first time we've heard really one of our allies be.
- [12:36]
Emma Vigland
So explicit and acknowledging the hollowness of the rules based international order. I mean, we'll analyze this after we hear from Carney. But of course this story cannot be told without the genocide in Gaza.
- [12:48]
Sam Seder
Indeed, but that's all part of the story. But I think the majority, the breaking point is sort of what he admits here, which is we all believe the lies because it benefited us.
- [13:05]
Emma Vigland
We are on, we, we're in the protection racket, but we're realizing that we might be on the side of the like we're now going to experience blowback from this. And the Americans have become essentially the, the, the baddies, the bullies of the world. That's, and we're on that side. That's, that's what this recognition is.
- [13:25]
Sam Seder
Well, I think he's, or we have just got cut loose. I mean, they made this deal with China. I don't think it's a coincidence that he made this deal with China last a couple of weeks ago. And here's a portion of that speech.
- [13:41]
Mark Carney (clip)
For decades, countries like Canada prospered under what we called the rules based international order. We joined its institutions, we praised its principles, we benefited from its predictability. And because of that, we, we're going.
- [13:54]
Matt Leckie
To play a different version here. Go up back to something. All right.
- [13:57]
Sam Seder
It was getting a little Crispy. This speech I think in total was only about 15, 16 minutes. So it's probably worth you checking out the entire thing, but this clip. Do we have it? Okay.
- [14:10]
Mark Carney (clip)
For decades, countries like Canada prospered under what we called the rules based international order. We joined its institutions, we praised its principles, we benefited from its predictability. And because of that, we could pursue values based foreign policies under its protection. We knew the story of the international rules based order was partially false. That the strongest would exempt themselves when convenient, that trade rules were enforced asymmetrically. And we knew that international law applied with varying rigor depending on the identity of the accused. For the victim, this fiction was useful. And American hegemony in particular helped provide public goods, open sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security, and support for frameworks for resolving disputes. So we placed the sign in the window, we participated in the rituals, and we largely avoided calling out the gaps between rhetoric and reality. This bargain no longer works. Let me be direct. We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition. Over the past two decades, a series of crises in finance, health, energy and geopolitics have laid bare the risks of extreme global integration. But more recently, great powers have begun using economic integration as weapons, tariffs as leverage, financial infrastructure as coercion, supply chains as vulnerabilities to be exploited. You cannot live within the lie of mutual benefit through integration when integration becomes the source of your subordination.
- [15:58]
Emma Vigland
Wow.
- [15:59]
Sam Seder
Now when he says great powers, he could be talking about China. But I think we all know the great power that he had been dealing with. He being Canada, obviously he's not. Canada is the U.S. and the crises, Iraq, the financial crisis, I mean the failure in many respects of the United States to take the lead in terms of the pandemic, These are the things that he's responding to. And he's basically just saying like, it doesn't work anymore, it's broke.
- [16:37]
Emma Vigland
I mean, I just say like, it's.
- [16:38]
Matt Leckie
Interesting, as you know, we've been producing the show for them to admit that the things we were saying about the order, or like Noam Chomsky, there's a piece in Foreign Policy mag that said Noam Chomsky was right, that that was true and accurate and they were just saying that we were wrong because it was convenient for I guess, their type, their what they considered civilization, to say that we were wrong about it.
- [16:58]
Emma Vigland
Carney acknowledges that they basically absorbed the contradictions of the rules based international order because that was the choice. As a mid sized nation under the umbrella of The United States. And what he's making a plea for Europe to do is to cut ties in the way that he's basically doing, or to develop a new economic. Gosh, there's the loudest sirens outside. Sorry, guys. But that. To develop relationships that are reflective of this new international world order that is going to be multipolar. There's no question about it. I mean, even the Trump administration, the isolationist policies of the Trump administration, or the desire to return to the Western Hemisphere as a part of our sphere of colonialism and influence is a recognition of that from Trump as well.
- [17:44]
Sam Seder
Yeah, I think so. But I think from the perspective of non superpowers, that's what the difference is, is he's basically saying, like, we agreed, we bought into the lie because it worked for us. And from a pragmatic perspective, I mean, you know, there's no. He's not taking a moral position here at all. He's just basically saying, as a pragmatic exercise, it doesn't work anymore. And so it was a marriage of convenience and one which we would sort of pretend that we loved each other and. But you know what? It. It's not convenient anymore. And so now we don't have to pretend a little out of control.
- [18:30]
Emma Vigland
Yeah. And also, I mean, you see, when there's no alternative to capitalism as well, like that is, it's not just United States. The United States being uniquely evil or imperial, of course, as like the global hegemon for my entire life, that's the center of our critique. But when, you know, the talk about the end of history and the fact that at the fall of the Soviet Union, there was, like, this belief that capitalism will reign supreme for the rest of time, and the United States is at the forefront of that. Like, we are seeing that that rapacious economic system is coming back to bite us in the form of a genocide, in the form of weaponizing the United States economic might in sanctions regimes with tariffs, what have you, to wreak havoc upon these other countries. You need to have a more. A broader balance of power, both economically and with nation states throughout the globe, unfortunately, because the United States as a hegemon has shown we are incapable of being the world police without, you know, doing things like genocide and. Yeah, I mean, like, so it's coming back to bite Europe here, they were complicit in the genocide in Gaza. But Carney's even recognizing here, like, we. We have held onto these contradictions for too long. And that's the implicit kind of, I think, story beneath it all.
- [19:51]
Sam Seder
And we'll talk more about this as the week goes on. But, you know, I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, you know, both from, from the perspective of the world and certainly in the context of the United States, which is not to say that it can't go sideways because we still have the largest military by exponentially the rest of the world. And we have a fascist in the White House and a fascist regime. So, you know, things might work out in 10, 15, 20 years, but the idea of, you know, it's gonna be unstable for that. We wanted to be able to put the terms on how we were going to end these marriages to the extent that we were going to. And when you don't and you have a big military and you have a fascist regime in power, you know, there's some precedent for, for that kind of thing. But we will be talking more about this, obviously later in the program and over the course of, you know, maybe the next couple of days and maybe the next couple of years. First a couple words from our sponsor and then we'll be talking to Adam Fetterman reporting file with type investigations. Life, as you know, can feel like a big puzzle. Constantly trying to fit all the pieces together. Your career, your passions, your relationships, your finances, and of course, your health. It's a lot. But finding healthcare shouldn't be the trickiest part of it. Zocdoc makes it easy to find and book an appointment with a doctor that you're going to love. ZocDoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states. Doesn't matter whether you're looking for dermatology, dentistry, primary care, eye care, psychiatrist, one of the 200 specialties offered by Zocdoc. You can easily search by specialty or symptoms to build the care team that's right for you. 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Go to shopify.com majority shopify.com majority all right, we'll put that in the podcast and YouTube description. Quick break. When we come back, Adam Federman. We are back. Sam Cedar, Emma Vigland on the Majority Report. A pleasure to welcome back to the program. Adam Federman, reporting fellow with type investigations, recipient of a 2020 Fetisov Award for your environmental reporting. And Adam, you were last on the program on November 30, 2023 with Emma talking about Greenland. And you know, I had forgotten that this was something that Trump had been talking about back then and was reminded only because Emma had done that interview with you. What he and today he announced no military action. I'm not sure if we should believe him or not. But what like what's going on here? Is it Ron Louder, Is it, is it I mean, what like what it's.
- [26:58]
Adam Fetterman
Hard to keep up with this story. I mean, I was honestly relieved to hear him say that he was going to rule out the use of military force, although he also confused Greenland and Iceland repeatedly, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence in whatever the administration.
- [27:16]
Sam Seder
Maybe he's ruling out military force for Iceland, but it still or I was.
- [27:21]
Adam Fetterman
Thinking maybe we could give him ice, NATO could give him Iceland and he'll be happy with that and the Greenland issue will be settled. We'll see. But so Trump's thinking or his approach to Greenland has certainly taken on new life in this second term. I mean, in 2019, he floated the idea of buying Greenland, which was laughed at. The Danish prime minister called it absurd. No one really took it seriously. And it was essentially forgotten about. I mean, I did my story on Greenland and traveled there in 2023. So this is during the Biden administration. The United States was using all kinds of soft power tools to advance its interests in Greenland, including potentially investing in some mining operations and keeping China out. There was talk of expanding the US Military base in Patufik. They renamed the base as a way of acknowledging Inuit land claims to the region. So it seemed like the United States was essentially getting what it wanted. And when Trump came back into office, I would argue that the table was set in a way that it never has been for the United States to essentially capitalize on this relationship and Greenland's desire to become independent of Denmark. Now in the last year, I think Trump has essentially destroyed those advantages. Greenland and Denmark have, if anything, gotten closer to and we're now in the middle of this completely unpredictable crisis.
- [29:07]
Sam Seder
I mean, we're going to touch on this part later. But it this seems the fact that Trump was This serious about it seems to have basically, to the extent that there was any vestige of the EU or our allies saying, like, you know, everybody has a bad day. You know, we'll give the United States a mulligan on the first term of Trump, and it was still up in the air on the second. But it really does feel like this has been the final sort of like, blow the nail in the coffin that has basically said, like, we can't trust these people anymore.
- [29:52]
Adam Fetterman
Yeah, it is kind of hard to imagine how we dig ourselves out of this hole. I think even in December 2024, before Trump was inaugurated and he made his first remarks about wanting to acquire Greenland. And then you'll probably remember that shortly after that, he dispatched Don Jr. And Charlie Kirk and a couple of other folks to Nuke, and they handed out $100 bills to people on the street, and they had lunch at some fancy restaurant with a bunch of locals wearing MAGA hats. And even after that, people were still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. They were like, this is crazy, but maybe it's a little bit tongue in cheek. We don't really know how serious you are. And at that point, I mean, I think the jury was out. It was unclear what the administration's policy was gonna be. He was talking about reclaiming the Panama Canal, making Canada the 51st state. It was like, where does this all fit in? What's serious? What is just complete B.S. obviously, he's just continued to double down on taking Greenland. And I think perhaps more notable is the fact that top advisors like Stephen Miller and J.D. vance have also repeated Trump's claims, which I should just note. This idea that Russia and China have ships and are sort of circling Greenland and pose some imminent security threat is completely untrue in my opinion. It's like claiming Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Mainstream media has finally begun to push back and sort of debunk this claim that Trump, Vance and others have made with zero intelligence to back it up. Danish Greenlandic officials have rebutted this notion, but this is sort of their.
- [31:46]
Sam Seder
You.
- [31:46]
Adam Fetterman
Know, drumbeat to war or whatever you want to call it.
- [31:50]
Sam Seder
Can you.
- [31:51]
Emma Vigland
Oh, can you expand a little bit on, though, the geopolitical importance of Greenland? Part of what we spoke about back in 2023, about your piece was, you know, you kind of tracing this back to the 1950s and some of these kind of post World War II agreements and how it was central in the Cold War. But, like, you know, we know that they're lying about this as A pretext. But what's the motive behind the lie, is the question.
- [32:17]
Adam Fetterman
Yeah, I mean, Greenland has always been strategically significant in the Arctic. I mean, during the Cold War, the threat of Soviet missiles coming over, you know, the Pole to North America, that was sort of the shortest route. And so having the space base, as they now call it, the. The lone remaining US Military installation in Greenland is essentially a series of radars that are there to track missiles that may be coming from wherever Russia. And so Greenland has remained strategically important. Obviously, after the end of the Cold War, things changed and US Investment in Arctic security diminished, and Arctic nations, through international governing body called the Arctic Council, were, you know, managing things quite well and sort of cooperating with one another. Those relations have deteriorated badly, especially in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And as we saw, not only with Trump during his first term, but then with Biden, you know, shoring up sort of US Assets and investment in Greenland has become increasingly important. And we've always worked closely with Denmark, oftentimes without including Greenland, to kind of get what we've wanted. And, you know, that history is something that I wrote about in that in these Times story, and it's something that I think Americans are unfamiliar with, and it's certainly something that American leaders never really acknowledge.
- [33:56]
Sam Seder
Do you have a favorite theory, though, as to why Trump has this, what seems to be now real legitimate? I mean, I, up until today, I thought we were going to send 1500 troops and just be like, OK, now what are you going to do about it, Denmark, nothing. You're not going to do anything about it, and we're just going to have it and we'll send you a check, and apparently that's not going to happen, hopefully. But from a strategic standpoint, the US had, like you said, already made sort of like we were on a trajectory to have only more closely aligned and more relationship with Greenland, more access to whatever we wanted in terms of, like, strategic necessities. That's been out the door there. I'm agnostic on that personally, but that's the dynamic. What is it that he thinks he's doing? Is this part of a larger Donro doctrine or what?
- [35:02]
Adam Fetterman
I think that does fit into it, this. This idea of hemispheric defense. However, the hole in that general argument is essentially what you just pointed to, which is that we have an agreement with Denmark that goes back to 1951 that essentially gives us free reign to expand our military presence in Greenland. And Greenlandic leaders and Danish leaders have said the door is open not only are we open for business in terms of economic investment, but you can expand your military presence here, whether that's at the base that we already have or with installations on the east coast to monitor Russian submarines, et cetera. So I keep coming back to this interview that Trump did with Susan Glasser and Peter Baker for their book that was published a few years ago, in which he basically said he saw Greenland as just a huge piece of real estate. It's big, it's there. He thinks he can have it. It's pretty basic. I mean, it's primitive, it's childish, and it's how Donald Trump operates. I don't know how much more complicated it is. I mean, there are, you know, there are many strategic reasons why Greenland is important in the Arctic, but the manner in which this administration is going about achieving those ends has the potential to undermine our security, Canadian security, North American security in the region. I mean, that's, I think, a simple fact.
- [36:32]
Emma Vigland
But, I mean, Trump's childishness, I think, in the way he's approaching this, it's a point well taken. But I am very interested in, like. And it seems like this is a theme across Trump and foreign policy. He has this impulse to be the big conqueror, to make his legacy in this way, but there are always people pushing him in a certain direction based on financial interests. So, you know, there was a piece in the Quincy Institute from last week kind of outlining, or there was a section of it talking a little bit about this guy that I can't read my own handwriting, per usual, but it was one of the PayPal co founders.
- [37:12]
Adam Fetterman
Yeah, probably Ken Howery, I would imagine.
- [37:15]
Emma Vigland
Ken Howery. There you go. So Trump appointed this guy, Ken Howery, to be the ambassador to Denmark, which seems significant in this situation. We've talked to Gil Duran on the show before about the concept of the network state and how Peter Thiel and these other kind of tech billionaires envision the idea of creating a purely privatized state that they would control Greenland, having some of the resources that they want, it being a population of, you know, under 60,000, mostly indigenous people, that's. They're probably thinking, like, easy pickings. I mean, what's your feeling about that theory?
- [37:53]
Adam Fetterman
I think there's some credence to it. I think the big sticking point with Greenland is that it's, you know, 80% of it is covered in ice. You know, good luck setting up your utopian network state in a part of the world that is not very easy to live in. I do think, though, On a more serious note, that there is a fair bit of speculation and interest in, you know, establishing data centers, for example, in Greenland, because of the cold climate and investing in some of the other resources that the country has. I think that, you know, Howard, he was ambassador, I believe, to Sweden during Trump's first administration. I don't know how much power and influence he has. I was actually quite surprised to see his first sort of informal press conference in Copenhagen after he was confirmed and a journalist asked him a very basic question about, you know, what did he have to say to the people of Greenland? And he looked like a deer in the headlights, as if the question hadn't occurred to him, which I thought was somewhat bewildering. So I don't really know who's running point on Greenland in this administration. I think with Venezuela, for example, it was clear that Rubio's fingerprints were all over that operation and kind of the ideological motivations behind removing Maduro, et cetera. But when it comes to Greenland, I mean, Rubio has been oddly silent, it seems to me, on this. I don't know who is in Trump's ear. Is it Stephen Miller, the Guardian? J.D. vance? I don't know.
- [39:32]
Sam Seder
The Guardian reported, I think it was a couple of weeks ago that, that it was a function of Ron Louder, the cosmetics guy, who is a longtime friend of Trump back in the first term, said we should, we should, we should buy Greenland. And that was basically. Then he just got obsessed with it. And then I would imagine there's others who might say, like, yeah, sure, like, I mean, it's, it seems like, I mean, this is so hard to sort of like wrap one's brain around that the president functions like a, literally, like a poorly behaved six year old, like, literally. But it's quite conceivable that he just had this idea in his head. Everybody around him thought it was so far fetched that they all just humored him. And it just is like a snowball because nobody wants to go like, actually, boss, I wasn't really that serious about it.
- [40:28]
Adam Fetterman
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think Ron Louder put the worm in his ear probably. And then they did have a meeting with this guy named Greg Barnes, who is an Australian mining geologist and he has advanced this rare earth metals mine in southern Greenland which is now part owned by a US Company called Critical Metals Corp. And actually Howard Lutnick's firm has a stake in that company. And there are some. Yeah, there are. So there are some financial connections that have not gotten a lot of attention. Steve Feinberg at the Pentagon. Number two is CEO and founder of a company called Cerberus. They do not, they may not have direct investments in Greenland, but they have done some mining projects in northern Canada and are interested in this sort of strategic nexus. And there are other sort of fringe figures with personal connections and, or interest in sort of developing some of the strategic interests in Greenland. So I would imagine that they perhaps are having some influence on Trump as well.
- [41:42]
Sam Seder
So, and I imagine that Trump's announcement today was a direct function of, like, the treasury market just sort of like just collapsing on some level. Interest rates had to shoot up because everybody was like, and I think, again, Greenland is more sort of like the flag that denotes the sort of turning decision point that the rest of the world has made of like, we're done, we're out. Now, regardless of what happens with Greenland, what do you think happens? I mean, this is an impossible question to ask you, but what do you think happens next? I mean, does he just sort of like, okay, they didn't want to buy it, they didn't want to sell it, and so I'm done, I'll move on to Iceland or I don't know.
- [42:28]
Adam Fetterman
That's the question everyone's asking. And I don't think he moves on. There's no way he moves on. He has dug his heels in. And I think the hard part is next. I mean, they've talked about establishing this working group after the meeting with.
- [42:45]
Sam Seder
You.
- [42:45]
Adam Fetterman
Know, Vance Rubio and the Danish and Greenlandic representatives who will be on that group. And how do you bridge this gap between Trump wanting outright ownership and Greenland clearly refusing to go down that path? I'm not sure there is a middle ground. And if there isn't, what does Trump do if he sort of backed into this corner?
- [43:08]
Sam Seder
I think the middle ground is, let's put it, let's form a working group, a committee, and just wait until Trump, you can't get his medication and give him an award. Exactly.
- [43:18]
Emma Vigland
Yeah.
- [43:19]
Sam Seder
I don't know. Adam Fetterman, a reporting fellow with type investigations, recipient of that 2020 Fetus of Award. Russian oligarch.
- [43:31]
Adam Fetterman
The Russian oligarchs.
- [43:33]
Sam Seder
There you go. We'll put a link to to your piece at in our YouTube and podcast description. Thanks so much for your time today. Really appreciate it.
- [43:42]
Adam Fetterman
Thanks a lot. Bye bye.
- [43:43]
Sam Seder
All right, folks, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, Representative Aisha Gomez representing District 62A in the Minnesota House of Representatives from the occupied state of Minnesota in this country. We'll be right Back. We are back. Sam Cedar, Emma Vigland on the Majority Report. It is a pleasure to welcome to the program Representative Aisha Gomez. She is the representative for District 62A in the Minnesota House of Representatives. And Eisha, you were just telling us that this is the. You represent South Minneapolis.
- [45:39]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Yeah. Sam and Emma, thanks so much for having me. So my district is kind of the heart of the south side of Minneapolis. We've been heavily impacted, of course, by the incursion of, you know, armed secret ICE police in our community. My constituent, Nicole Good, was murdered by ICE agents a couple of weeks ago in my district. We also, you know, again, right around the corner from George Floyd Square where, where we were the epicenter of that kind of global event five years ago as well. So thanks for having me.
- [46:13]
Emma Vigland
Of course.
- [46:15]
Sam Seder
And just give us a sense of what it's been like over the past. I guess it's now like three weeks, three weeks of this sort of invasion. I don't know what else really to call it. I mean, I don't know what the numbers are up now. It's at least 2,000 Ice Troopers, as Bovino would call them, but at the very least, it's 2000. Could be closer to 2500 by now. Just give us a sense of, like, what, what the. On the ground, like, how aware of the presence Are they there?
- [46:52]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Yeah. So, you know, again, as you said, like, there's so little transparency about this, this incursion, this invasion by masked, unaccountable, heavily armed, you know, kitted out, sometimes in full military garb for a secret police force in our community. So we don't even know how many of them there are. What I can tell you is just.
- [47:15]
Sam Seder
That.
- [47:17]
Representative Aisha Gomez
My community is just being impacted in numerous ways by what's going on on the ground. Of course, we see scenes of brutality and violence playing out over and over again day after day, many times a day. Right now, as we speak, Greg Bovino is in my district. He was spotted there. He has a convoy of 4, 5, 6 SUVs with 3 or 4 agents in each of them. We, you know, you can be just like a regular person going about your life, trying to take your kids to school, trying to go to work or go get, you know, a cup of coffee or something, or going to the grocery store. And you encounter scenes of just impossible to imagine kind of things unfolding on the streets. I was like, it was last week. Time's a little tough, but it was last week. As you may know, Greg Bovino and his goons after they murdered my constituent. They went to a high school, and at dismissal time, Roosevelt High School. And they used chemical munitions on students, parents, and educators as school was dismissing. So school closed in Minnesota for Thursday and Friday after they killed. Or in Minneapolis, excuse me, after they killed Renee Goode. And so then on Monday the next week, schools were back in. And so many of us were just kind of being at schools because they have, unfortunately, along with hospitals and other places that we used to be able to view as sanctuary spaces in our community, as places that were safe for families and children to exist at, they have become a target of these forces. And so I'm there welcoming the kids to school, and I hear this huge commotion. I hear whistles and horns. And that is how our community are protecting ourselves, is just by gathering, making a crowd, making noise, bringing attention to what they want to have happen in the dark. And I go running over there, and, you know, they had arrested, you know, four immigrant people, including two children and a woman, a disabled woman was trying to go to a doctor's appointment. They cut her seatbelt. They forced her door open. As I got there, they were carrying her by her four limbs. You know, I mean, I don't know, like a carcass of an animal, like a. Like a dangerous prisoner who's going to physically attack the person who's trying to restrain them. You know, she just told her story about being at Whipple, being denied, you know, medical attention. And so this is happening. I saw them take another observer down and, you know, kind of crush his face into the concrete, lift him again by his four limbs like an animal. They were using chemical munitions. I was maced. They used tear gas against us in a residential neighborhood. Okay, this is like, people just live here. And I got to tell you what, in the midst of all of this, in the midst of all this chaos, dozens of federal agents using chemical munitions on, just like regular people, munition that's banned by the Geneva Convention for use in warfare. And I see this man approaching from across the street, and he has a toddler in his arms. Like, the kid must have been around 18 months to 2 years old. And I knew after he moved that he was going to his apartment across the street. But just this scene of this completely terrified man with a completely terrified toddler in a residential neighborhood in an American city, rushing across the street with his jacket wrapped around his baby through clouds of tear gas being used by masked, unaccountable federal agents. I mean, this is what's happening on the streets of Minneapolis.
- [51:43]
Sam Seder
What and I think we actually showed the video of both that woman and the man that you referred to. There's two sort of areas that I'm really interested in, and I think it would be helpful for people outside of Minnesota and Minneapolis, because this is not going to end there. The one is sort of like, best practices in terms of the community organizing. But I'm particularly interested in, like, what is the state attempting to do or doing? Or what do you think they should be doing that they're not doing in terms of, like, statutorily, in terms of committee hearings? I don't know, like, what is. What is in play on a state level?
- [52:33]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Yeah. So I really especially appreciate your first question, Sam, because, like, it feels like Minneapolis is being used as a testing ground both in the brutality of the tactics. And we have seen since they killed Renee Goode, we have seen such an acceleration in the brutality and illegality of the tactics that are used against observers violating people's civil rights with just absolute impunity, using Renee Goode as an example and a threat. Like, there are numerous videos of ICE agents saying, didn't you see what happened? Didn't you see what we did? Haven't you learned your lesson?
- [53:20]
Sam Seder
Right.
- [53:20]
Representative Aisha Gomez
The implication being this could be any of you, and it could have been any of us. But I mentioned to you earlier that, you know, Bovino and his shock troops went from the scene of the extrajudicial execution of Renee Goode in the street to a high school to gas kids. And Mike's constituents were also on that scene in the dozens and dozens and hundreds of us left that scene, and we went out and we did exactly what Renee was doing, and her wife were doing exactly the thing that got her killed. And so at the same time, that this moment in Minneapolis is a warning to the country. It's like it's a red alert for our democracy and for, like, the basic foundational, aspirational ideas that founded this country. The idea that there's equal protection under the law, the idea of the Constitution. At the same time that that's what we're facing, we're also seeing what the response to authoritarianism on the march has to be. And that's like the first three words. We the people. That's us coming together in our communities and taking care of each other and doing so courageously and knowing that, like, you know, Renee Goode's widow said we, they had guns and we have whistles, right? We are. We're coming together. We're coming together to respond every single time that ICE Agents are on our streets. We want dozens and hundreds of people there making noise, alerting our neighbors as to their presence. And we need to take care of each other in these times. And that's actually what's true about us as humans. They want us to be looking at each other with suspicion. They want us to be in our houses. They want us to be terrified. But what the communities in Minneapolis and across the state, this is not just happening in Minneapolis, it's a less told story, but this is happening in the suburbs and the exurbs and rural areas. And everywhere in our state right now, this invasion is happening. And everywhere in our state, communities are organizing and they're coming together and they're making sure kids get to school, food gets delivered to people's houses, and are showing an alternative vision of reality, of that, like, destructive, nasty kind of vision of humanity that's being presented to us. Like, what is actually true about us as humans is that we exist in community and we have what we need to take care of each other. And so communities across the country, you can't wait until they come to your doorstep. Like, you have to start organizing now. And so that's.
- [56:13]
Emma Vigland
Yeah, yeah. Representative Gomez, can you talk a little bit about when you're saying the communities coming together, where are the local police in this? What have your constituents been saying about the local police response and their ability, or lack thereof, to protect them from ice? What should people know if they're in Minneapolis or know people in the area about local police response?
- [56:42]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a lot of frustration, I would say, on. My constituents are frustrated. Right. Because what we're seeing is just massive violations of the law every day, all the time, from obviously, these really, you know, I mean, one of them killed somebody in the street. They're using violence, they're destroying people's property, they're breaking windows, they're violently arresting people, they're rolling through red lights. They're driving 60 miles an hour down a side street. They're driving the wrong way on a one way. I mean, they're just acting with complete reckless disregard for public safety. So to hear any national person say this is about public safety is like such a joke and a farce to those of us existing under this occupation. And so I think that there is, you know, there's a lot of frustration also. We have 600 cops and there's 3,000 of these guys here. We like. It is. I don't know what I would do if I were in charge of the Cops right now, to be totally honest with you. I mean there, the fact of the matter is that like there's no local law enforcement around the country that's arrested one of these guys. And I mean, somebody should probably do it at some point, but we don't know what's going to happen when that happens. And there is a very real sense here. I mean, you know, they subpoenaed our governor and our mayor and our attorney general and our county attorney. They're using all. They have cut off federal funding to needy families in Minnesota as retaliation. Right. So there's this real feeling that we're kind of like we're balancing on a razor's edge. And you know, and I, and I think it is unfortunately, you know, and you talked, you talked to me about, about or asked about state law, state law and response. And you know, like I'm, I'm somebody who, I've devoted my life to, you know, using the tool of state policy to improve people's lives. I'm the chair of the Tax Committee. I love this stuff. I get deep in the, in the nerdy details. Right. Of state level tax policy and I believe it's a powerful tool to improve the material conditions for working people in this country. But the fact of the matter is that we can, we have to be clear eyed about the truth, which is that state and local policy are not the tool with which to respond to an authoritarian federal regime. Those tools are inadequate. I wish they weren't.
- [59:18]
Sam Seder
Right.
- [59:18]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Because I believe deeply in their power. But we, you know, but honestly, like, that's why, I mean, I'm at my, I'm at the capitol right now. I haven't been here in a month. I think I've been in my neighborhood, I've been with my neighbors in the streets because I know that the way that we respond is with community. Unfortunately, like our elected leaders, we want them to do everything that they possibly can and we are working on a lot of policy, but we have to be real about this moment. You know, it goes beyond our ability to regulate and, you know, enforce Minnesota state statute. I wish that wasn't the case, but I think that's where we're at.
- [60:04]
Sam Seder
Speaking of which, we are two days away for what has been called, I don't know, for lack of a better term, a general strike that has been called. Now. I think there's at least a dozen, maybe more unions have signed on to this, as many, if not more community groups have also signed on to this. Give me your sense of how widespread this will be. And, like, what is the sense of this in the community? Yeah.
- [60:42]
Representative Aisha Gomez
So Friday is a day of truth and freedom. We're asking people not to shop, not to go to work, not to go to school if it's possible for them. You know, I think that, like, I have a. There's an elder in our community. His name's Ricardo Levins Morales, and he always reminds us that we are. We're part of a lineage. There have always been people like us who have stood up in times of crisis in our country, in times when, you know, oppression and oppressive systems have kind of crushed people. And there are many, many people before us who've engaged in these kinds of tactics like general strike and being in the streets and protecting neighbors and forming community patrols. These aren't new ideas or new tactics. And we're just like one in a long string of fighters for freedom and justice in our country. And so we know that the idea of a general strike and boycotts, all kinds of different tactics have been employed by Americans of conscience in times of crisis. And so we're asking Minnesotans to. To participate. We have hundreds of organizations and unions, hundreds of businesses that are closing. And so, you know, we invite everyone to be a part of it. And I just, you know, if there are people listening from Minneapolis in particular, you know, there are community defense kind of formations in every corner of our city. Like I said, they murdered Renee Goode in the street, and then they wanted us to go back inside. But what we have seen since then is tens of thousands of people organizing in their local communities. If you're not linked up with your local organization yet, go to defend612 on Instagram or the Internet, and you can connect with your neighbors who are organizing there and across. Across the state, it's like, you know, and across the country, really, like, neighbors just need to be coming together. That's how we answer this threat.
- [63:05]
Sam Seder
Is there any. Obviously, number one job is to do what you're talking about. Is there anybody compiling any of these best practices for the sake of, you know, I don't know if it's Lewiston, Maine is next, or Portland or, you know, Boston or wherever it's going to be. But is there any resource that we should know about to point people to or. I mean, obviously it's hard to be fighting and sort of recording it for other people to be fighting at the same time. But if that exists, I would love to know about it.
- [63:45]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Yeah, I mean, like, fortunately for us, unfortunately for all of us, we are not the first or the last city to be in this position. And so, you know, we have been helped out immensely by community defense alignments in Chicago and Los Angeles, Washington, D.C. who have faced, you know, very similar situations to what Minneapolis is in before us. And so they've taught us a lot. You know, on that defend the 612 website, there are resources for communities, sort of like best practices, how to connect yourselves and organize yourselves into these, you know, community defense areas. And, you know, Protect Rogers park is an organization in Chicago that has just been so generous in and taught us a lot about how to respond to these times. And they have tons of resources on their websites. There are LA and Free DC is another kind of source of information for, you know, folks who are kind of looking at. Looking and seeing and maybe anticipating ice coming to them next. So that's another beautiful thing that's happening is like, you know, we're sharing information and sharing hopeful stories across the country between people who are standing up in this way and, you know, and when the next city is invaded like this, we will be there to support them and to help share the things that we've learned so that we can continue to have a nimble response to this invasion.
- [65:34]
Sam Seder
All right, well, we're going to. We will link to defend the612.com so that folks can at least start off there. And is there anything else you think that we should know at this point? I mean, obviously, you know, we've dedicated a decent amount of time to sort of watching what's going on there because it's obviously both horrific and a bellwether and maybe also a foreshadowing of other places. But if there's anything else you think that we should. We should know at this point, what might that be?
- [66:11]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's anything new from what I said, but, you know, these are dire times. This is a very serious moment for our country. We are being asked what we will accept as people, what we will accept as a country. And it's incredibly important that we all are very clear about the threat and also about the answer. And, you know, I can just say, like, these are such hard times for my community and for my city. And I've never been so proud to be from this community and this city and this state. And, you know, we. This is the one of those moments that, like, your grandkids are going to be like, if you were in Minneapolis in January 2026, like, what were you doing? And, you know, and that moment may come for your city.
- [67:03]
Emma Vigland
Too.
- [67:04]
Representative Aisha Gomez
And we all have to have an answer for that. And so I just really appreciate your. You lifting up what's happening here, because it feels a little bit like, do people realize, like, how dire it is here? And so thank you so much for using your platform to invite me on and to just cover this story and for your advocacy. Thanks so much for having me.
- [67:28]
Sam Seder
Representative Isha Gomez representing District 62A in the Minnesota House of Representative. Thanks so much for your time and the work you're doing there, and good luck. We're paying attention, and hopefully, you know, can help in any way we can. But thank you. Thanks for what you're doing there, and thanks for your time today.
- [67:48]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Thank you.
- [67:49]
Emma Vigland
Thank you.
- [67:50]
Sam Seder
All right, folks, we're going to take a break. Head into the fun half. Whee. I think it's good.
- [68:06]
Emma Vigland
It'll be wacky.
- [68:09]
Matt Leckie
I have a fun clip about how AI is using up all the fresh water in the world.
- [68:14]
Sam Seder
So that's the. That's the fun part.
- [68:17]
Emma Vigland
Well, we do. I mean, we may. We have one or two fun clips. We carried over one from yesterday.
- [68:23]
Matt Leckie
It's like gallows fun.
- [68:25]
Emma Vigland
No, there's. There's. There's two or three fun.
- [68:27]
Sam Seder
Well, is there really. Do we have anything that's not gallows humor?
- [68:31]
Emma Vigland
The last one is fun way.
- [68:34]
Sam Seder
Way. At the end of the 32 clips that we have is the. Is the. Is the funny one.
- [68:39]
Emma Vigland
You'll know what I'm referring to.
- [68:40]
Matt Leckie
Oh, but someone was wrong about fascism for gold. It's also about fascism being here and confirmed.
- [68:47]
Adam Fetterman
So the.
- [68:48]
Sam Seder
The. The most hilarious thing we have is just how someone didn't see the fascism.
- [68:52]
Matt Leckie
Coming and how it's undeniable now see.
- [68:58]
Sam Seder
God.
- [68:59]
Emma Vigland
So for people that may want a little peek behind the curtain, the whole dynamic in the office is me trying to be positive about something. A piece of media that I liked, a movie, an athlete. And whoever it is, it doesn't matter. It could be Sam, it could be Brian. It could be Matt telling me why I'm wrong.
- [69:18]
Sam Seder
Yeah.
- [69:18]
Emma Vigland
And to be enthusiastic, it's actually. And as I was telling my therapist yesterday, I need some more female energy.
- [69:27]
Sam Seder
In my life yesterday because I watched a little bit of your life light diminish when we were talking about a particular musician. And I. Who was. It doesn't matter. I don't want to. I don't want to bring everybody in on it.
- [69:40]
Emma Vigland
Okay.
- [69:40]
Sam Seder
But I just. I legitimately thought about it last.
- [69:43]
Representative Aisha Gomez
My pillow.
- [69:44]
Sam Seder
I was like, who cares if you don't like him? Why do you have to say something. Don't need to tell Emma that.
- [69:52]
Matt Leckie
Pretend you think he's a great blues great blues guitarist.
- [69:56]
Sam Seder
Just so you know, it wore on me.
- [69:59]
Emma Vigland
Well, I'd like to think it's the purity of my spirit. I'm so red. See ya folks.
- [70:10]
Sam Seder
It's your support that makes the show possible. You can become a member@jointhemajorityreport.com when you do, you not only get the free show free of commercials, but you also get the fun half where, you know there's eras where fun half is ironic and the eras where fun half is real. Watch Harry Emden. And you just have to, you have to, you have to, you have to sign up to be a member to find out which era we're in. Although I can predict a lot of a certain kind of era. It's not exactly an ironclad secret. Also just coffee, co op, fair trade coffee, hot chocolate. Use the coupon code majority get 10% off of that fair trade co op coffee. You can also get the majority report blend. We will. Oh and Matt, what's happening on the in Matt Leckian media universe?
- [71:10]
Matt Leckie
Yeah. Over on left reckoning on Tuesday, David Griscom and I had a couple of guests, Alex Brunell and Judith of A Jewish Voice for Peace talking about James Talarico, who I'm a fan of his natural political talent. He's a great communicator and when you could and the problem is when you are able to like message so well on say Christian nationalism or charter schools, it becomes clear when you're pulling certain punches on say the question of Israel and Palestine. So we went at length into his statement of what he believes on that subject and there is not a, not a very satisfactory document from my perspective and everybody on my shows and so check that out if you're interested in that. I still would probably put him as getting my vote for the primary down there. But look he's got a talent and he should use it to be a leader on these issues.
- [72:00]
Emma Vigland
It's odd because he had shown like you know, he's done very empathetic speeches about Gaza. But it gets, it's like when it gets down to brass tacks about what he actually advocates for the defensive weapons.
- [72:11]
Sam Seder
And you don't want to make the.
- [72:12]
Matt Leckie
Adelson thing more salient. Like I am willing believe it was about gambling things but crypto and gambling. But look people are going to have that question and it is a fair one to ask if you're going to start saying well Hamas needs to be dismantled. That's a call for end to a ceasefire then. Because how do you dismantle something like that? Or if you say, well, I support, quote unquote, defensive weapons, which. He's not the first person to use that phrasing.
- [72:40]
Emma Vigland
Well, it's just, I mean, we'll go into the fun half, but just a quick point on this, like we need more national Progressive Democrats to start talking about Israel genocide in a way that matches the reality on the ground. I think that's a big, big problem. I said this months ago when I went on Pod Save America, trying to make a plea for that because this vacuum is being left. And so like you can have all of these, you know, Zionists smearing people because they don't use the correct language or saying like they are advocating for this. You don't know, like, can national Progressive Democrats are talking about one Democratic state, can they start talking about Israel more realistically? I think that would help things. But anyway, problem is a lot of.
- [73:19]
Matt Leckie
Their colleagues have blood on their hands.
- [73:20]
Emma Vigland
I think that's part of it. But, but enough like, I mean, if we're having frickin, what's his name, David Plouffe, not naming Hakeem Jeffries and Schumer in his op ed, but saying that Democrats should run against leadership if they want to win. I mean, you know, why not throw some of your genocidal colleagues under the bus?
- [73:41]
Adam Fetterman
I would love that.
- [73:42]
Sam Seder
I mean, and I will just say this too. I hope people understand that obviously given the opportunity to vote for a Democrat over the Republican in Texas and the expectations of any Democrat representing Texas at this juncture in time is, you know, would be on the low end of the spectrum of what we expect of a Democrat. From there, it's not like representing New Jersey Cory Booker or New York Chuck Schumer, Kristen Gillibrand. But it's important to maintain some markers as you're assessing these candidates. So yeah, I mean, hopefully that doesn't have to be said, but of course it does.
- [74:37]
Emma Vigland
Speaking of Cory Booker, maybe I do have an addition for the fun half that. It's not that fun, but we do.
- [74:43]
Adam Fetterman
As a guy who is focusing so much of my effort on ending human suffering on the planet Earth.
- [74:53]
Emma Vigland
It'S so self aggrandizing and so unearned. It's.
- [74:58]
Sam Seder
I honestly just, I'm trying to think of what, what I would have to be doing in life to be able to say those words without laughing, like in the middle of it. I'm trying to like, it's Human suffering on planet Earth.
- [75:15]
Adam Fetterman
Like.
- [75:18]
Sam Seder
Honestly, I have said those words, but it has been totally sarcastically, like, you really asking me to wash my dish? Do you understand that I am trying to save the planet?
- [75:34]
Matt Leckie
Take the trash out.
- [75:35]
Emma Vigland
Right, right, right.
- [75:40]
Sam Seder
It's literally the way you justify not getting off the couch and getting someone else to get you the popsicle in the fridge or whatever it is. Right. Anyway, see you in the fun half three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months from now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're going to look back and go like, wow. What? What is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second. Hold on. Hold on for a second. Emma. Welcome to the program. Fun hack.
- [76:26]
Adam Fetterman
Matt.
- [76:27]
Sam Seder
Boo. Fun pack. What is up, everyone? Fun pack. No.
- [76:32]
Representative Aisha Gomez
McKeen, you did it.
- [76:34]
Sam Seder
Fun pack.
- [76:35]
Emma Vigland
Let's go, Brandon.
- [76:36]
Sam Seder
Let's go, Brandon. Fun pack. Bradley, you want to say hello?
- [76:42]
Adam Fetterman
Sorry to disappoint everyone. I'm just a random guy.
- [76:45]
Sam Seder
It's all the boys today.
- [76:46]
Emma Vigland
Fundamentally false. No. I'm sorry.
- [76:48]
Adam Fetterman
Women.
- [76:49]
Sam Seder
Stop talking for a second.
- [76:51]
Emma Vigland
Let me finish.
- [76:52]
Adam Fetterman
Where is this coming from?
- [76:53]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Dude?
- [76:53]
Sam Seder
But dude, you want to smoke this? 7A.
- [76:57]
Emma Vigland
Yes.
- [77:00]
Sam Seder
Hi, me.
- [77:02]
Matt Leckie
Is this me?
- [77:03]
Sam Seder
Yes.
- [77:06]
Adam Fetterman
Is this me?
- [77:08]
Representative Aisha Gomez
Is it me?
- [77:09]
Sam Seder
It is you?
- [77:12]
Adam Fetterman
Is this me?
- [77:13]
Sam Seder
Hello, it's me. I think it is you. Who is you? Goes out every single freaking day. What's on your mind?
- [77:23]
Adam Fetterman
We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism.
- [77:26]
Representative Aisha Gomez
I'm gonna go snow white.
- [77:27]
Sam Seder
Libertarians. They're so stupid. Though common sense says of course.
- [77:31]
Emma Vigland
Gobbledygook.
- [77:32]
Sam Seder
We nailed him.
- [77:34]
Emma Vigland
So what's 79 plus 21?
- [77:36]
Sam Seder
Challenge met. I'm positively quivering. I believe 96. I want to say. 8572-1085-5011-0389, 11. For instance.
- [77:46]
Emma Vigland
$3,400. $1900. 54.
- [77:49]
Sam Seder
$3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game.
- [77:54]
Emma Vigland
Actually. You're making me think less.
- [77:55]
Sam Seder
But let me say this. Call it satire. Sam goes to satire. On top of it all.
- [78:02]
Representative Aisha Gomez
My favorite part about you is just like every day, all day, like everything you do.
- [78:07]
Sam Seder
Without a doubt. Hey, buddy. We see you. All right, folks, folks, folks.
- [78:17]
Emma Vigland
It's just the week being weeded out. Obviously. Yeah.
- [78:20]
Sam Seder
Sun's out, guns out. I, I, I don't know.
- [78:27]
Representative Aisha Gomez
But you should know.
- [78:30]
Sam Seder
People just don't.
- [78:30]
Matt Leckie
Like to entertain ideas anymore.
- [78:32]
Sam Seder
I have a question. Who cares?
- [78:36]
Matt Leckie
Our chat is enabled, folks.
- [78:38]
Sam Seder
I love it.
- [78:39]
Emma Vigland
I do love that.
- [78:42]
Sam Seder
Gotta jump. Gotta be quick. I gotta jump. I'm losing it, bro. Two o', clock, we're already late and the guy's being a dick. So screw him. Sent to a gulag.
- [78:55]
Emma Vigland
Outrageous.
- [78:55]
Sam Seder
Like, what is wrong with you? Love you.
- [78:59]
Emma Vigland
Bye.
- [79:01]
Sam Seder
Love you.
- [79:02]
Emma Vigland
Bye.
- [79:02]
Sam Seder
Bye.