3566 - Bolton Raided & Trump’s Christo-Fascist Crusade w/ Eleanor Janega & Derek Davison

Summary

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The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3566 – "Bolton Raided & Trump’s Christo-Fascist Crusade"

Guests: Eleanor Janega, Derek Davison
Date: August 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

On this episode of The Majority Report, Emma Vigeland fills in as host alongside Matt, diving into a packed week of political turmoil. The main focus is the dangerous escalation of Trump’s attacks on critics—now targeting even right-wing hawks like John Bolton—and the increasingly explicit merger of Christian nationalism and state power. Special guests Derek Davison (American Prestige, Foreign Exchanges) and medieval historian Eleanor Janega join to contextualize these developments, dissecting how mythmaking about the Crusades and Christian supremacy fuels present-day authoritarianism, foreign policy disasters, and domestic repression.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. John Bolton Raided: Escalating Authoritarianism

(10:10–19:40)

• The FBI raided John Bolton’s home and office, an extraordinary move against a figure widely disliked on the left but more crucial as a sign of Trump’s escalating attacks on his critics, regardless of their politics.
• Trump attempts to appear uninvolved—“I know nothing about it. I just saw it this morning. They did a raid.” ([13:07], Trump)—but repeatedly refers to himself as “the chief law enforcement officer,” blurring constitutional roles and openly fantasizing about wielding the power of the state against enemies.
• Emma and Matt stress the precedent: if even high-profile loyalists like Bolton can be targeted, “who’s next?” ([19:14], Emma).
• Notable quote:
  • “He’s a real sort of a lowlife... he worked out great for me because every time... I’d walk into a room with him with a foreign country and the foreign country would give me everything because they said, 'Oh no, they're going to get blown up because John Bolton is there.'” ([12:12], Trump)

2. Christo-Fascist Mythmaking & The Crusades

(23:01–27:49 & 49:46–55:18)

• Eleanor Janega and Derek Davison introduce their podcast Welcome to the Crusades, explaining how right-wing figures (even the US Secretary of Defense) use fantasy versions of medieval history to legitimize modern violence and exclusion.
• Right-wing white men persistently cast themselves as both “alpha males and victimized by everyone else in society,” a dynamic sustained by grievance and mythology ([27:40], Janega).
• The narrative of Christian persecution and righteous violence echoes the Lost Cause myth and buttresses actual state policies, from school curriculum fights to literal crusades in the Middle East.
• Notable quote:
  • “If we don’t talk about medieval history on the left, then it just lets the right tell weird mythologies and put themselves at the center of it. And so, yeah, I’m here to ruin their day.” ([23:30], Janega)

3. Supreme Court and the Erosion of Civil Rights

(28:37–32:51)

• The Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision led by Amy Coney Barrett, allows the termination of nearly $800 million in NIH diversity research grants—undermining study of health disparities and furthering the narrowing of public benefit to a shrinking “in-group.”
• Derek and Eleanor highlight how these reactionary policies sacrifice technological leadership (e.g., to China) and basic scientific progress for the sake of white patriarchal control.

4. Authoritarianism, Economics, and the Alligator Alcatraz

(32:51–37:04 & 56:53–61:44)

• The Trump administration’s economic vision amounts to “last gasp” extractivism—propping up dying industries, haphazard tariffs, and rejecting broad innovation while looting the system before climate crisis hits full force.
• The conversation moves to “Alligator Alcatraz,” the immigration detention center in Florida, framed as a continuation of the militarized, extralegal abuses that began with the Iraq War and have now migrated home.
• Emma draws the line from imperial brutality (“these tactics were used on accused terrorists”), now aimed at migrants and potentially citizens who displease the regime.

5. Gaza Genocide & The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation Scandal

(39:40–49:46)

• Emma, Derek, and Eleanor dissect a stunning CBS report: US-funded mercenaries and the IDF shoot at desperate Palestinians at “aid sites,” followed by the chilling testimony of an American truck driver (“Mike”) who was forced to clean up human and animal remains ([41:49–45:02], Mike).
• Notable quote:
  • “It took me two or three days to realize that they were actually shooting at people. They weren’t shooting at combatants... just indiscriminate.” ([43:04], Mike/whistleblower)
• The panel draws on history, likening these tactics to deliberate ethnic cleansing and concentration camps, and emphasizes the US role as direct participant—motivated in part by religious, eschatological fantasies among Christian nationalists ([51:33–53:43], Janega).
  • The Christian Zionist alliance is not just political; it’s “profoundly anti-Semitic,” rooted in apocalyptic beliefs about the end times ([51:45], Janega).

6. Rewriting the Narrative: Historical Memory and Complicity

(55:18–65:03)

• Victors will eventually rewrite history to disclaim participation (“One day everyone will always have been against this,” [55:18], Davison).
• The normalization of Bush-era crimes—through lack of prosecution—paved the way for Trump’s return and present authoritarian moves ([63:49], Janega & Davison).
• Emma, Eleanor, and Derek warn how fascist tactics once justified against foreign “Others” are now being directed inward, with expanding definitions of “undesirable” including naturalized citizens and, potentially, critics of the administration themselves.

7. Final Reflections: Crusaders, Whistleblowers, and Myths

(65:03–67:47)

• Eleanor answers a listener about the “myth of the disillusioned crusader,” reminding us of the historical tendency to recast failed or regretful participants as (retroactively) skeptics—often as a way for societies to process guilt or defeat.

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Standout Quotes & Moments (w/Timestamps)

• On Trump’s claim to be “chief law enforcement officer”:
  • “You are not the chief law enforcement officer in the country. I don’t really know...” ([13:35], Emma Vigeland)
• On religious myth and violence:
  • “You have to be simultaneously an alpha male and victimized by literally everyone else in society... that’s fascism. Yeah.” ([27:40–27:50], Eleanor Janega)
• On concentration camps and migration:
  • “They’re not deporting people—they’re trafficking people. Anyone who thinks this will only be used against the ‘undesirables’... it’s already expanding.” ([59:13], Derek Davison)
• Whistleblower on Gaza Humanitarian Foundation:
  • “I was brought outside the perimeter and I was tasked with cleaning up the remains of animals and some humans... there had been so much shooting that human remains had been left there... I struggle to talk about it. I even feel a bit clammy and I can feel my chest beating harder.” ([44:18–44:55], Mike/whistleblower)
• On the American Christian drive for genocide in Gaza:
  • “Many Republican Christian members of Congress—like Christian Zionists in our government—outnumber Jewish Zionists. ... And the basis of the worldview is profoundly anti-Semitic.” ([53:43–53:57], Janega & Emma)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• John Bolton Raid / Trump’s Lawman Fantasies: 10:10–19:40
• Crusades Myths and Right-Wing Identity: 23:01–27:49
• Supreme Court / Diversity Research Grants: 28:37–32:51
• Trump’s Economic Extractivism: 32:51–37:04
• Gaza Humanitarian Foundation / Aid Massacres: 39:40–49:46
• Christian Nationalist Apocalyptic Politics: 51:33–55:18
• Turning Imperial Tactics Inward: 56:53–61:44
• Bush-Era Failures Laid Bare: 63:49–65:03

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Tone & Energy

The episode balances somber, urgent analysis of genuinely horrific developments (particularly with Gaza and immigrant detention) with moments of irreverence and gallows humor—trademark Majority Report style. The guests blend scholarly insight with clear, pointed language. The hosts and panelists frequently express exasperation, outrage, and sometimes black comedy as they dig into the state of American and world politics.

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Summary

This episode underscores how the relentless rewriting of history—whether about the Crusades or the Iraq War—directly supports the contemporary machinery of cruelty, repression, and genocidal violence. The “Christo-fascist crusade” is both literal (in the Middle East) and ideological (in US courts, immigration policy, and media). The guests warn that unless these narratives and abuses are contested, they will be internalized—rewritten as “necessary” or “not that bad” once the dust clears, unless we speak out and organize now.

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Further Resources

• Check out Derek & Eleanor’s new podcast: Welcome to the Crusades ([67:57], Janega)
• Subscribe to Foreign Exchanges for global news analysis; listen to American Prestige for foreign policy deep-dives
• CBS News coverage on the GHF/aid massacre ([41:49])

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Transcript

[Emma Vigeland]

Hey, folks. This episode of the Majority Report is brought to you by one of our favorite sponsors, if not our favorite Sunset Lake Sebede. Use code left is best for 20% off. We've told you all about Sunset Lake Sebede and their great products. I mean, I literally have the lotion right here unscented, so I don't upset Sam's sensitive nose here in the office. At home. I have my own scented version of this lotion. It is great, especially in the wintertime. I need it right here on my desk. I also have these gummies right here on my desk, which I sometimes will have one right before I take my walk home. And it's a very, very nice way to relax and unwind after a show where we talk about things like, you know, mass starvation and mass deportations and stuff like that. It's also great because Sunset Lake is a company that you can feel proud about supporting. Sunset Lake pays its workers a minimum wage of $22 an hour. A majority of the business are, is owned by folks that actually work there. So it's, it's in part employee owned. Sunset Lake is a political company that you can feel good about supporting. It has donated over $100,000 to causes like criminal justice reform, food insecurity, refugee relief, worker solidarity, strike funds, and more. Sunset Lake also uses sustainable farming practices like techniques that use cover cropping, low till, organic fertilizer and more. No pesticides ever, integrated pest management, and more. It's really good quality and also a company that you can feel good about supporting. You can get the gummies like I have. I also have the sleep gummies at home, the focus ones. You can get the gummies with a little tse in them, as Sam would say, and even grind it up. Keef, whatever you need to complement some of maybe your other herbal indulgences. Sunset Lake Sebede is the best. It's I, I say this every time, but when I started getting into Sebede, you get kind of scammed by a lot of junk in stores and places that aren't that high quality. This is not that. So if you go to sunsetlakesebae.com and use code leftisbest, you get 20% off. Sunsetlake sebede.com use code left is best for 20 off. And now time for the show.

[Sam Cedar]

The Majority Report with Sam Cedar. Where every day casual Friday. That means Monday is casual Monday, Tuesday, casual Tuesday, Wednesday casual hump day, Thursday casual Thirs. That's what we call it. And Friday casual Shabbat The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.

[Emma Vigeland]

It is Friday, August 22, 2025. My name is Emma Vigeland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Derek Davison and Eleanor Yenega of American Prestige and the new podcast welcome to the Crusades will both be joining us to recap this week in news. Also on the program, Global Food Monitor IPC officially declares a famine in Gaza, warning that the worst case scenario is unfolding with half a million people already experiencing famine. Israel's defense minister says Israel will destroy all of Gaza City. The gates of hell will open. What could he mean by that?

[Matt]

It's a marginal figure. It doesn't represent all of Israel.

[Emma Vigeland]

Russia strikes a US Factory in Ukraine overnight. The FBI raids John Bolton's home and office, an escalation of Trump's efforts to prosecute his critics, no matter how much we may find them loathsome. The White House will review 55 million U.S. visa holders for violations, which experts say is a widely, wildly inflated figure, including tens of millions of people not currently in the US A federal judge says Alligator Alcatraz must cease construction, halting its operations effectively and giving the government 60 days to dismantle it, siding with the indigenous groups that brought environmental objections some rare good news, less so here. The Supreme Court, 5 to 4 overturns a lower court decision allowing the NIH to terminate nearly $800 million in federal grants related to diversity. Newsom officially signed legislation putting California's redrawn map on the ballot in November. In Minneapolis, the not so Democratic Farmer Labor Party revokes its endorsement of Omar Fateh. Jerome Powell signals that rate cuts may be coming as Trump's tariffs slow growth and inflate prices. Elon Musk and X settle with their former workers over stolen severance pay. But his legal woes don't end there. A federal judge says he may be sued over defrauding voters with his $1 million a day election giveaway. And lastly, new Eric Adams bribery scandal drops and it's somehow funnier than the last. One of his advisors tried to bribe a reporter by putting cash in a bag of potato chips. I'm not joking. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show, everybody. It is casual Friday. Sorry a bit for the late start today. We had some technical stuff that we're working on. So pandemic anxiety is a little anxious that the rumble Stream is not up. You know, one of the.

[Matt]

Sorry, pandemic.

[Emma Vigeland]

Millions of viewers on Rumble.

[Derek Davison]

Yeah, well, the.

[Matt]

Probably the only one really, is Pandemic.

[Emma Vigeland]

Anxiety holding it down.

[Matt]

Who is, I'm afraid to say, not sincere. That's a. That's a joke name. But yeah, unfortunately our usual relay for sending this to all the different apps is not working today for some reason, so probably no Rumble, but hopefully the app is working if you refresh the app. And we are up on Twitch as well.

[Emma Vigeland]

Nassau county spokesperson writes in Screw DFL donated to Omar Fateh. I mean, we'll get into this more in the fun half. But Matt, just your reaction to this incredibly undemocratic action.

[Matt]

Yeah, so, I mean, what happened basically is what happens at caucuses, which is the most devoted folks can sometimes get a result that maybe the lax establishment doesn't like. And Jeremy Fry there was, from what I can gather, like not the smoothest convention ran. And he and his supporters decided, oh, let's just pull out of this. And Fateh was able to secure, after they did that, secure the nomination. And immediately Jacob Fry was basically doing stop the steal type of that didn't count sort of thing because he's got a lot of money. And also there's a conservative streak in the DFL that is afraid to have, frankly, a Somali socialist as a figurehead. And it's, you know, indicative of the dfl, supposedly one of the better, you know, parties. Right. And we talked a lot about a lot of the things that have been passed in a very slim legislature there. But Fateh's somebody who was literally put on the backs of Uber and Lyft drivers for securing their minimum wage for them, that both Fry and Walz opposed the establishment in Minnesota. And Walz indeed endorsed Fry a couple weeks ago. But I don't think this is over. I think it shows a lot of weakness in Fry that it had. It's gone this far. So, like, this is a bad day for Fateh. But they kind of playing from behind when you're saying, actually we didn't mean that endorsement, let's make our whole party look basically incompetent. Like, if you can't trust. If you can't trust them with your own convention, how can you trust them with the state of Minnesota or a city like Minneapolis?

[Emma Vigeland]

But I mean, it's more than just Fateh. What is so infuriating is seeing this complete dismissal of all of these East African folks who were activated by the political process and had more enthusiasm on their side and is the Democratic Party, a big tent for immigrants and for people of color. And it appears to be not the case with the Minnesota DFL right now.

[Matt]

Certain types of people can be in the tent. They just can't be leading the circus.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly. Well, onto national news here. The big story that broke this morning is that Donald Trump is escalating his efforts to attack and intimidate his critics. This is perhaps the most loathsome critic of his that I could come up with. And there's a real cast of characters that we could choose from here. John Bolton. He served in Donald Trump's first term. Since then, he has been selling books based on his criticisms of Donald Trump, which largely center around the fact that he thinks Trump should be more hawkish, basically, in every single area, that we should be going to war with Iran. When Trump got back into office at the beginning of the year, he revoked John Bolton's security clearance as well as, like others, Joe Biden's, Hunter Biden's, in a kind of sweeping effort to be as petty as possible. But it's an important story, not because I can defend literally anything John Bolton has ever done, but because this is potentially a trial balloon for him to continue to go after his critics in other areas. This is Trump this morning being asked about the FBI raid on John Bolton's home and office in Maryland this morning. And you'll hear this excuse literally from Donald Trump probably three to four times a week. This might be the least believable attempt at the. I know nothing about it.

[Donald Trump]

So I'll fire her if she doesn't resign.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, posit. That is in reference to a. Of the latest Fed official that he's bullying another story that's going to just go completely under the radar because of all the insanity today.

[Donald Trump]

So I'll fire her if she doesn't resign.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Mr. President, have you been briefed on the FBI raid on John Bolton's?

[Donald Trump]

No, I don't know about it. I saw it on television this morning. I'm not a fan of John Bolton. He's a real sort of a lowlife. When I hired him, he served a good purpose because, as you know, he was one of the people that forced Bush to do the ridiculous bombings in the Middle East. Bolton, he, he wants to always kill people, and he's very bad at what he does. But he worked out great for me because every time he doesn't talk, he's like a very quiet person, except on television. If he could say something bad about Trump, he'll always do that. But, but he really doesn't talk. He's quiet. And I'd walk into a room with him with a foreign country and the foreign country would give me everything because they said, oh, no, they're going to get blown up because John Bolton is there. He's a. Not a smart guy, but he could be a very unpatriotic guy. I mean, we're going to find out. I know nothing about it. I just saw it this morning. They did a raid.

[Emma Vigeland]

Do you expect the DOJ to brief you on this?

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, they'll be. They'll brief me, probably today sometime.

[Emma Vigeland]

And poor Mr.

[Donald Trump]

I don't want to. I tell Pam and I tell the group, I don't want to know, but just. You have to do what you have to do.

[Matt]

I don't want to know about it.

[Donald Trump]

It's not necessary. I could know about it. I could be the one starting it. I'm actually the chief law enforcement officer, but I feel that it's better this way.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay. Oh, he's so. He's above it. He would never be.

[Matt]

It's the appearance of impropriety.

[Emma Vigeland]

Come on. The norms, the norms. Media. His most legendary. This is the first time you're ever telling me about this was the Ruth Bader Ginsburg one when she died, which I think might have been his only authentic attempt at that. I'm not sure. But we don't need to psychoanalyze this guy for too much longer. You are not the chief law enforcement officer in the country. I don't really know.

[Matt]

I'm the Sheriff of America.

[Emma Vigeland]

It is troubling that he sees basically his function as the head of the military, that is the president's basically formal role, constitutionally allocated role with being the chief domestic law enforcement officer in this country.

[Matt]

The commander in chief of law enforcement.

[Emma Vigeland]

He's like a little, you know, boy in a town that wants to be a cop growing up. He needs to get some experience first. He as the new chief law enforcement officer in the United States. This is him, I guess. This was what, yesterday or this morning?

[Sam Cedar]

Yesterday.

[Emma Vigeland]

He called into the Todd Starnes show to talk about how he's going to get some experience with law enforcement.

[Matt]

What's this image, by the way? Is that AI?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, and it's embarrassing to me. This looks like someone making fun of him. And I had to double check that. This is the AI image that Todd Starnes himself put up.

[Matt]

It looks foolish.

[Eleanor Yanega]

I think he looks strong.

[Sam Cedar]

And I'm going to be going out tonight. I'm going to keep it a secret, but I'M going to go. You're the only one that knows you and your lots of listeners. You have a great show. You have a very successful show by the way, in case you haven't heard that. But I'm going to be going out tonight, I think with the, with the police, with the, and with the military of course. So we're going to do a job. The National Guard is great. They've done a fantastic job.

[Emma Vigeland]

So he's going to do a little ride along with a cop.

[Eleanor Yanega]

We're going to do a job is another one. If you put a, like a pull string on a Trump.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right? We're going to do a job, dude. When he said you're the chief law enforcement officer in the country and right before that he had said that he just lets Pam Bondi do her thing and that he has a lot of big separation from her. You, she is by law the top law enforcement officer in the country. She's the U.S. attorney General. So that's not how that works, buddy. Which, which one is it? Are you basically using Pam Bondi as a puppet to be the chief law enforce officer in the country or is she the chief law enforcement officer in the country?

[Eleanor Yanega]

Get back to you in two weeks.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes, yes. It's a semi firm deadline in 2020. Trump tweeted this out about John Bolton. Feels a little relevant today. Bolton broke the law and has been called out and rebuked for so doing with his attempt at being high profile.

[Sam Cedar]

I think he wrote that one himself.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, with a really big price to pay. He likes dropping bombs on people and killing them. Now he will have bomb dropped on him. He was president in that time saying he was going to drop a bomb on his former national security advisor on like domestic soil.

[Matt]

Figurative bombs.

[Emma Vigeland]

How are you going to pretend you're the dove here, buddy? You're literally doing genocide right now. You are presiding over what the UN Just said was the starvation currently of half a million people imposed by Israel and the United States. Later in the show we will play a clip from CBS of another whistleblower from the so called Gaza Humanitarian foundation which has been put together by US consultants, a consulting group, the Boston. I'm forgetting the exact acronym bcg. Bcg, which Netanyahu previously worked at, you know, when he grew up in part in the United States. Just a bit of a coincidence, they were involved in setting up this Gaza Humanitarian foundation and, and they are participating in the slaughter according to these whistleblowers, of folks waiting for aid bragging, according to the whistleblower about how many animals and human beings they could kill, shooting at them from a long way away. This is Donald Trump's foreign policy. He's allowing for the annexation of the West Bank. Just because you're not making the exact decision to bomb Gaza and you're big, you have some plausible deniability because our vassal state does it for you, doesn't make you anti war. And also, dude, when he got into power the first time to the way he got to show off how his or pretend he was big down there basically was going and dropping the mother of all bombs on Afghanistan to show that he was a big, big dog, basically. You are not anti war.

[Matt]

I mean, how did Bolton feel about the strikes against Iran earlier this year?

[Emma Vigeland]

I'm sure he was. He. The true part is that he wished that we were more directly involved, but Donald Trump is not. Is too transactional, Honestly, I think for Bolton's ideology of, like, deep Islamophobia and bloodlust to win out at the end. It's more just like if Trump can get rich off of it, he'll agree to it. But either way, the precedent this sets is concerning.

[Matt]

To be fair, Bolton thought we should have done more, of course, in Iran.

[Emma Vigeland]

But yeah, he was the driving force behind wanting. After Bush, we had already invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. He wanted to open it up in his second term to a war with Iran. That's how insane this guy is. So no love lost here. But of course, who's next?

[Eleanor Yanega]

He also, when asked about January 6, he said it wasn't a coup because he knew as a person who's partaken.

[Sam Cedar]

In a lot of coups, I love.

[Emma Vigeland]

That quiet part out loud. It was like the, the, the, the right wing neocon version of the Chris Murphy tweet about our Venezuela coup. In a moment, we will be speaking to Derek Davison and Eleanor Yanega, but for. Oh, no, wait. We just did our ad read. But first we'll take a break.

[Matt]

No ads, okay?

[Emma Vigeland]

No ads. Except for Sunset Lake. So a quick break and when we come back, we'll be joined by our guests.

[Sam Cedar]

SA.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

SA.

[Emma Vigeland]

We are back. And we are joined now by Derek Davison and Eleanor Yanega. Derek is the writer and publisher of the Foreign Exchanges Newsletter and co host of the American Prestige Podcast. Eleanor is a medieval historian and author of the Once and Future Sex Going Medieval on Women's Roles in Society. Derek and Eleanor, welcome to the show.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Hey, thanks so much for having us.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, of course. Derek, we've. We've had you on before. I heard you guys on. On Chapo a little bit. People can check out that episode, but exciting stuff. Tell us a little bit about your new Crusades podcast. It's a little relevant, as you mentioned in the show, because our Secretary of Defense has a bunch of Crusades tattoos.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Yeah, he's going around with a little body modification there.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigeland]

What is old is new again. Tell us a bit about it.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

It's a. It's one of these things where I really wish talking about the Crusades wasn't particularly relevant. But unfortunately, you know, people don't study the medieval period. And I get it. It's a long time ago. It's incredibly complicated. You would have to learn things. And we're pretty busy at the moment. But the trouble with that is that it lets people like our Secretary of Defense tell a story about how, like, nice knights on horses went and did a big religious war and it was really cool. And these guys are actually a bunch of, like, losers who, like, basically somehow, like, a, stumble over their horses and land on their feet in Jerusalem somehow. We're not exactly sure how we are. It's just like, the element of surprise. And, you know, a couple hundred years later, people are telling really stupid stories about this. You know, it's dangerous stuff. And unfortunately, if we don't talk about medieval history on the left, then it just lets the right tell weird mythologies and put themselves at the center of it. And so, yeah, I'm here to ruin their day, which is fun.

[Emma Vigeland]

So you're a Chris Christo fascist fascist mythbuster, would you say? Is that a good way to describe your role?

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

I'm attempting to be, anyway.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

And it's not even that hard to bust the myths. That's the thing about it. It's really sad. You just have to, like, read one book and you're ahead of them, but nobody does, which is fair enough. Right?

[Eleanor Yanega]

And I do want to say, like, we for. If people would like to listen to the series and just get the medieval stuff and talk. Listen to us talk about the Crusades. We don't really get into Pete Hegseth's tattoos until the last episode. So there's a lot of nice medieval history content, if that's what you're interested in.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'll skip to the end then, a little bit, just to make sure we bring your great work into our current political context, because we're wrapping up the news of the week this week on Friday. And it just feels like I never. When Monday hits, I forget what the big headlines were. And yet they're always kind of all the same Gaza genocide, far right Christian nationalists, the alligator Alcatraz, this mass deportation. Like, I mean, really, really big picture view how as people who are, you know, historians and work in analyzing our history, how do you place this moment that we're experiencing right now in history? It's a bit of a big question.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

I think that it's kind of a logical conclusion to a particularized form of history that they have really been attempting to push forward. You know, and we're seeing this right now, for example, in the backlashes against museums in Washington D.C. attempting to tell sanitized versions of history that don't involve anything that might make you sad. You know, you don't have to go very far between the Gazan genocide and Christo nationalism. It's the same thing. They're two parts of the same coin. And indeed they hinge on these mythologies that people tell about the Crusades. And I think it's a little bit odd because, you know, obviously I'm obsessed with the medieval period I studied all the time, but I've never really looked at history, you know, saying, oh, this is going to tell me a story that's going to make me feel good about myself. You know, like history is where I see myself reflected. But you do see people do that and that's why you get pushes to putting forward these things. And it's also why you get Alligator Alcatraz. Right, because anyone who becomes inconvenient to that narrative has to be literally removed from your society because it is troubling a story you have been violently invested in telling for quite some time.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, Derek, can, can you expand on that too? Because it's amazing that these right wing white male conservatives do not think that their perspective is accurately reflected in history or kind enough to them. It's absolutely incredible victimhood and so, so pathetic when you really say it that way.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Well, it's essential to the narrative, right? Like you have to be simultaneously an alpha male and victimized by literally everyone else in society.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's Trump.

[Eleanor Yanega]

That's fascism. Yeah, that's absolutely Trump. I mean, he's, you know, he projects this weird image of masculinity which I don't see, but a lot of people apparently do. But at the same time, like his whole animating ethos is one grievance after another. You know, it's like Graydon. What the hell is that guy saying? Graydon Carter and his Oscar party. Or it's, you know, Obama was mean to me at the White House correspondents dinner or, you know, they're stealing the election. I mean, it's always just somebody's putting upon poor, helpless Donald Trump, and that's, you know, how he rallies people. I mean, they have to go together or else the whole messaging falls apart.

[Emma Vigeland]

And it feels very much like a continuation of the Lost cause. Like, the efforts to rewrite history here are very. There are many historical parallels, but that's the one that sticks out the most to me. Where, okay, his war against the Smithsonian seems incredibly petty because it is and precious, but it's indicative of broader policies of the administration. Either of you guys can take this. But like the Supreme Court now just this morning, five to four, Amy Coney Barrett sided with the right wingers, and then John Roberts sided with the Liberals, who was 5, 4. But it still overturned this lower court decision that basically allowed for the revocation of $800 million in NIH research that would focus on basically non white people, LGBTQ people, folks who were. And I'm not sure if it's women, but these are groups that were not studied medically, for example, for a long period of time. And it's why, like, women's health care is so far behind men there. This has implications for, like, the future of intellectual exploration and research and medical advancement and stuff over the next four years. That's going to be very difficult to recoup as China laps us technologically, can take it.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Yeah, it's a very interesting seeding of ground in terms of saying that we're just not going to be at the hegemon in terms of what academic thought is, which is really interesting to me. But it also makes perfect sense within their worldview, because what they're attempting to do here is isolate a certain group of people who are worthy of receiving health care, who are white men and everyone else, you don't. You just don't need it. Don't worry about it. You don't need to worry about that. Right. And I think from the perspective of women, it's interesting because it's also sort of like, oh, why do you need it? You know, the only time that women's bodies kind of come up medically, historically is when we're giving birth. And then it's like, oh, well, oh, now it's important. She might have a. She might have a boy, and then. And then that, like, her existence would be valid and that'd be interesting. And of course, we see this play out much, much worse in terms of how health incomes work for minority groups. You know, it's still Incredibly prevalent, for example, among medical professionals to think that black people, for example, feel pain less acutely. And of course, there's going to be a vested interest in making sure that science doesn't enter the record quite what they see happening or how that's going to pan out in terms of us against China. I think that basically they're just really stupid and they, and they don't care. They're willing to see this ground because they don't see that as a necessary playing field or anywhere that you need to be looking. And they're fine, you know. Oh, well, if Chinese people want to look into how medicine works with Chinese people, that's fine, I guess, is what they're, they're reporting to say.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Yeah, I mean, there's a, there's a conscious, I think, effort to, not, not effort, but a willingness to give ground on things that they just don't find important. And it is to some extent. I mean, you know, they did the same thing with USAID when they cut the foreign aid budget to the bone. It's, it gives ground away to China, but it's ground that they don't see as particularly important. These guys are not, they're not hegemonically minded, I would say they're not reducing, in a conscious way, trying to lessen the US Presence in the world or see ground. They just feel like it's more important for US to have $1.2 trillion military and project power that way and the rest of the world and bully, you know, use that power, the economic power and the military power to kind of bully the rest of the world to fall in line as opposed to the so called, you know, soft power kinds of things. They're more willing to give that up.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, and it's also this enclosure around, like, existing extractive industries, too, is something that I think is interesting to like, explore where, look, I'm not going to be a defender of unfettered free trade, but the idea that we should be kind of like issuing technological advancements in things like green energy in order to just, just section everybody off and reify existing industries. It's like this, I mean, Trump's age doesn't get in the headlines enough, but he's talking about death all the time. And it feels like the last gasp of a group of really, really greedy capitalist old guys that want to just get theirs while they can. And I'm sorry, there's somebody doing construction outside, so that's.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Yeah, you're expanding. Majority Report is expanding, folks. It's building the Studio as we're, as we're talking. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, there is, there is a certain, and I think a lot of this comes from Trump because the people around him tend to be younger and I suspect know better. But Trump drives a lot of the tariff stuff and the, you know, the really, let's bring back the factories and you know, certain, certain people around him, like, you know, Howard Ludwig and the really old guard types do have this vision of like America as, you know, the industrial power of the world. But it's, it's a, it's a fantasy and it's, it's not, they're not even pursuing it in a serious way. Like you can't just throw up 50% tariffs on India or, you know, 30% tariffs on China or even the 140% or whatever we were at with China before the deal and say, okay, magically, now we're going to start manufacturing, you know, electronics or we're going to start manufacturing like basic shit in the United States. It doesn't work that way. The entire economy has been geared toward financial financialization, toward banking and that sector for so long. There would be, you would have to have a fundamental reconstruction of the US Economy at this point that they're clearly not interested in pursuing because there's a lot of bankers in Trump's, you know, who are in Trump's year too. They don't want to, want to see that happen. And so it's not even a serious push. It's just sort of this like half hearted look. We're bringing back the factories. They're really not, but it's, it's sort of a sop, I think, to that, that mindset.

[Emma Vigeland]

Go ahead, Eleanor.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Yeah, I think it's, it's quite interesting because I think you're, you're really onto something here, Emma, where for a certain number of them, I think it's about the fact that this is not going to matter to me. I'm going to be dead by the time the, you know, climate change really kicks in, by the time any of this really has any, any meaning, you know, and you know, screw my grandkids, I'm going, I'm going to make this money now. And I think it is also a little bit, this is kind of the equivalent of your granddad asking you how you rotate PDF. Right? It's like it's, it's too difficult to kind of learn a new economic system, so we're just not going to do that. I don't feel like Doing it. I know this makes money right now in the short term, and so this is going to be a problem for everybody else down the line. And, you know, fundamentally, just saying things like that can do two things. It doesn't mean that you have to undo all the snarls of neoliberalism that have brought us to this point. I mean, everyone can agree that probably it would have been good if we had some manufacturing going on, but it doesn't also ask that you do anything. And I think that a lot of the governments that see themselves as, you know, the global leaders are really in that position right now where simultaneously they're just kind of like hoping that they can. They can say something and then, you know, the line's going to go back up and everything's going to be fine and you don't need to worry about it. But without the major investment that would be required for infrastructure to make any of that work.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. I mean, the financialization of it just sticks out to me so much too, when you see how much money is being wasted on basically our AI investments versus the dollar to dollar comparisons for China, which is lapping us technologically. But it's not, you know, increasing the stock value so that level of efficiency doesn't exist in our economy because it's so heavily financialized and everyone needs a cut.

[Eleanor Yanega]

I mean, any of you guys bought the AI mattress cover? I think that's. That was the last one I saw. The AI mattress paddle.

[Emma Vigeland]

No, haven't heard about it.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Oh, okay. Well, I mean, you're not sleep maxing then, I guess.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

I guess not.

[Matt]

Wait, can AI make your bed now?

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Well, AI cools your bed, but it's.

[Sam Cedar]

Like a subscription service.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Yeah, you have to get a subscription so it monitors how you sleep and adjusts. I don't know if it's just temperature. What I was thinking about when I saw the post about it, I was laughing. And then I found out it runs on a subscription service. So if you, like, forget to change the expiration date on your credit card, I don't know if it like, sends you a little electric shock to wake you up in the middle of the night to remind you to do that or what. But I'm excited for the possibility.

[Matt]

So easy.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

I think that they should. Anyone who spends money on this should just be shocked. As a matter of principles. So I'm actually. I'm on board with big tech on this one.

[Eleanor Yanega]

It's fine. There you go.

[Derek Davison]

I got you.

[Emma Vigeland]

All right. Yeah, well, it's the people that also get chip they're volunteering to get chips in their brains from Elon Musk. It's kind of like, all right, I'm not going to be one of those right wingers that are like Darwinism at work, but in that select circumstances, you kind of know what you're.

[Eleanor Yanega]

You've opted into that.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, yeah. And you're also probably fairly rich or like, you know, I don't know, way too far down the rabbit hole anyway, that a chip's not going to, in your brain is not going to do much. But let's kind of go to. Towards the foreign policy piece of this, obviously, because I'm a subscriber to your newsletter, Derek. It's really essential, keeps me informed about all of what's happening in the world so people can, you know, go to American Prestige and check it out. Sorry, foreign exchanges, but also listen to American Prestige. But both, yeah, I both listen, but I always mix up which one's American Prestige and which ones.

[Eleanor Yanega]

You know, I do that, like we record interviews and I start the interview with like, welcome to Foreign Exchanges. And it's really American. I do it. So I can only imagine.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, but like, especially in this incredibly turbulent time of wars across the globe and when frankly the United States and Western press broadly is so deeply biased towards the state of Israel and also very supportive of the United States continuing to support Ukraine, it's difficult to kind of get sometimes information that you feel is a little bit more accurate and looking at our involvement in these military conflicts objectively. The Gaza genocide is of course, as we know, one of the worst crimes against the worst crimes in the history of humanity. And it's currently ongoing and we're participating in it right now. I would love to get your guys reaction to this report from CBS News that came out last night. And there's another Gaza Humanitarian foundation whistleblower again. This is the mercenary group funded by the United States that has been participating in these aid massacres at sites in Gaza. And we had the Green Beret Aguilar come out and speak about the atrocities there. His quote to MSNBC a few weeks ago still rings in my mind where he says, when we finally open up the Gaza Strip, we're going to see essentially atrocities like humanity has never seen. And the world will have no excuse because we now are no. This morning it came out that at least half a million Palestinians are currently in the process of starving to death. We know that the death toll is wildly undercounted by probably hundreds of thousands. And this is a full blown holocaust. This Testimony from this anonymous whistleblower is disturbing. So I want to give people a heads up on that front. But we'll play around three minutes of this and would love your guys reaction.

[Derek Davison]

According to the un, hundreds of Palestinians have been shot and killed by Israel Defense Forces and foreign military contractors at or near GHF aid sites. We spoke to a new eyewitness who concurs. He told us it's not only the IDF shooting, but also personnel hired through American subcontractors to secure GHF sites.

[Mike (whistleblower)]

I thought I was was going there to help people when this man was.

[Derek Davison]

Hired by an American logistics company to drive aid trucks in Israel. He says he had no idea it meant he'd be working with the Gaza Humanitarian foundation inside Gaza. He asked us to conceal his identity, dub over his voice and change his name because he fears reprisals. We will call him Mike. He secretly recorded several videos, including this one. What you are hearing, he says, is the sound of gunfire from brightly lit GHF sites fired at Palestinians seeking aid.

[Mike (whistleblower)]

It took me two or three days to realize that they were actually shooting at people. They weren't shooting at combatants.

[Derek Davison]

So did you think these were warning shots?

[Mike (whistleblower)]

No, it's indiscriminate.

[Derek Davison]

And who was doing the shooting?

[Mike (whistleblower)]

The IDF and the American security personnel. They've got positions on each corner of the sights and they would often shoot at exactly the same time as the Israeli soldiers.

[Derek Davison]

We do not see who is shooting on the videos Mike gave us, but he said there was not a single occasion he observed when there was no shooting him. And he was at the sites on average five days a week for several weeks. CBS News has seen his work schedule and metadata from his cell phone confirms the dates and times he was in Gaza. CBS News has been reporting on the almost daily shootings and deaths at or near GHF sites since GHF began operating its sites at the end of May. Palestinians would gather near the sites hours before they opened to be the first to grab food.

[Mike (whistleblower)]

I was breathing quite heavily because I'd never seen a crowd of people behave with such intensity and such desperation.

[Derek Davison]

What's the worst thing you experienced?

[Mike (whistleblower)]

I was brought outside the perimeter and I was tasked with cleaning up the remains of animals and some humans. What had happened is that there had been so much shooting that human remains had been left there and there's smell got quite bad. So the security contractors had complained and the IDF said it wasn't their business. So I was tasked with cleaning it, but I wasn't warned what it was.

[Derek Davison]

And you were told to clean up everything there and do what?

[Mike (whistleblower)]

Just put it in the back of a truck, which took everything away. I struggle to talk about it. I even feel a bit clammy and I can feel my chest beating harder.

[Derek Davison]

I just shut down, really over 1800 Palestinians.

[Emma Vigeland]

That was really the bulk of his testimony there. And the fact that he was able to smuggle those videos out of Gaza is important. You know, we're also, we know that Israel is currently funding basically gangs that are stealing aid from Palestinians where they then blame it on Hamas to create, you know, for further manufacture more consent for the genocide. Just your overall takeaway on that testimony and what the impact is, Derek, we can. I'll start with you.

[Eleanor Yanega]

I mean, the, the GHF scheme, I have to say, I mean, I didn't, when, when it was announced, didn't realize it was going to just be openly firing on people and killing them. That surprised me. But it was always premised on the idea that you are committing or planning to commit crimes against humanity, are committing and are planning to commit. The whole idea behind this notion that you're gonna change the distribution of aid so it stops coming to where people are and you force people to go to it is about displacement, it's about getting people moving so that when you say, okay, now, now that you're used to coming, you know, 25 kilometers or whatever it is to get to an aid site. Now we'd like you all to go into this one confined area which they've been setting up in Rafah, or what's left of Rafah. The so called humanitarian camp. I don't even remember the name of the setting up. It's a concentration camp. Yes. Yeah, for the, for the population. Once you get people moving a little bit, then it's easier to get them moving longer distances and then you get them moving permanently and relocating and then they're in a place where they can be controlled, where their movements are prohibited. And coincidentally, Rafah is very short trip out of Gaza altogether. All they have to do is be sent across the border to Egypt and then from there, who knows? So it was always about, I think, facilitating the mass ethnic cleansing of Gaza, per what Donald Trump talked about earlier this year with Benjamin Netanyahu. I think that opened the floodgates or opened the minds of Netanyahu and some of the people in his cabinet to the possibilities of what could be achieved here that maybe they were not ready to consider yet or that they wouldn't have considered prior to that. So it was always going to be an atrocity. But it's been shocking to see the extent to which they're not even waiting for that. They're just kettling people and opening fire on them. They, they call this crowd control but they don't give anybody the tools. You know, the IDF doesn't have actual riot or crowd control tools. The contractors certainly don't. So they wind up shooting at people. I mean, just, just you know, openly shooting at people. And I don't, you know, you can still, I guess try to justify that. And they've done it. They've said, you know, they're really shooting at looters or people who are behaving in an unruly way or you know, approaching the IDF in a suspicious way. It's all, you know, it's all, it's, it's just about inflicting more punishment on this, on this population which, you know, as you alluded to earlier, we now know has been designated in Gaza City is, is in a, the most man made famine I think you can possibly imagine. Just completely manufactured by the Israeli government.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. I mean even the word famine doesn't accurately describe what is being done here in the same way a war doesn't describe what is accurately, accurately describe what is being done here. I feel like we have all of this very clinical language about the genocide that just because bombs and highly militarized vehicles and tanks and men with guns are involved, where this is the equivalent of gas chambers is just being done, you know, with bombs or with forced starvation, that there's so much that of really deeply embedded propaganda that I think removes people from the reality of it. I mean, Eleanor, you've of course researched mythologies and the religious elements behind the stories we tell ourselves here, but of course this is just American imperialism by, but putting that kind of dressing on it because it appeals to a certain Christianationalist thrust within our society completely.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

I mean, I think you've really hit on something here, Emma, which is the terminologies that get used in order to sanitize this. So we get all of these new ways of talking about it consistently that are meant to keep us a little bit at arm's length from the horrors. And you know, even if you're someone like myself who has long been incredibly critical of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and who has seen this for what it is from the get go, which is an attempt to ethnically cleanse Gaza, it's still horrifying when you hear new things from whistleblowers because it's getting that information that really kind of brings it home to people. And you know, those of us who have been looking into this for years upon years know what's happening. But it's that those little bits of information that really make you understand visceral what's happening. So we get these technicalities, right? You get these particular ways they'll say, oh well, it's not technically a genocide, because to be a genocide it needs to be this, that or the other thing, which is also incorrect. You know, every historian we love to define our terms of this meets any definition of genocide going. And what it comes down to is that Gazans are not seen by the great majority in the global north as legitimate people. And it's, it's just the same as kind of crusading mentality. You can just go over there, you can clean anybody out that you want to because there's a rightful owner of that place and it's the correct religion that you want to see. And from an American imperialist perspective, something that I think isn't talked about enough is that a lot of the people who are quite interested in, in ethnically cleansing Gaza are interested in propping up the Israeli state because they have Christian eschatological reasons for wanting there to be a Jewish state there.

[Emma Vigeland]

Because explain those reasons. We've talked about it over and over again, but it's so dark that I think it could be, I could use your, your more, you know, historical perspective on it.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

It's so anti Semitic, so just strap in. It's really bad. It's not good news. But the idea is that during the Apocalypse at the end of the world, Antichrist is going to come back. And what Antichrist is going to do is he is going to set himself up in Jerusalem and he's going to rebuild the temple there. And once he rebuilds the temple, he's going to have all of the Jewish people there worship him as the actual Christ. He will then attempt to ascend into heaven to prove that he is Christ after having a battle with Enoch and Elias who show up because they love the extended universe. And then he will be struck down by the spirit of Christ's mouth and die. And then one of two things is going to happen. Either you get a 10,000 year reign of peace on earth where the remaining Jewish people convert to Christianity.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Nice.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

And anti Semitic, or you go straight to the rest of the Apocalypse. You know, the seas will, will boil, the mountains will crumble, the stars will fall from the sky. But this is supposed to be A good story because at the end of it Christians then get to go to heaven and that you get on with the rest of eternity where the bad are eternally punished and Christians get their just desserts. And I don't think that people kind of realize that this is the end story of Christianity. Christianity is a, it's a linear religion. There's a beginning, there's a middle, there is an end. And the end is with the apocalypse. And this anti Semitism is baked specifically into it. And it's really big specifically in a lot of American circles. And this is what they're getting at when they prop up the state of Israel. And I think that, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu knows that and he just doesn't particularly care because he gets what he wants out of it. So that's fine. But there is a not small group of Christianationalists and I would wager, for example, that our Secretary of Defense is one of them who sees this as a good thing.

[Emma Vigeland]

Mike Huckabee, our ambassador to Israel sees it as a good thing. Many Republican Christian members of Congress like Christian Zionists in our government outnumber Jewish Zionists. And this is the ideology that you are describing.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Exactly. And you see this across, you know, the medieval period, this crops up all of the time. And it's just that it's shifted a bit in who believes it now and who wants to kind of go forward with it. Because I think the Catholics kind of tried it on, you know, with the Crusade. So they're like okay, nevermind the starting over, you know, but you know, you see a lot more of it with evangelicals and people like that now. And I know that it's a bummer and I know that it's complex because it's, it's easy to kind of have these knee jerk reactions to, to who is doing this and why. But you'll see time and time again that Christian Zionists are a lot more prevalent than is comfortable. And they're the ones who will immediately, if you say something like oh, I'm not really sure about all the genocide happening in Palestine, they'll say oh what are you an anti Semite? And they're. The basis of the worldview is profoundly anti Semitic and it's absolutely maddening. But if you don't know about it, then it's very difficult to argue against it. But even if you do argue against it, it doesn't matter because they, they have this as a deeply held spiritual belief and the hypocrisy doesn't matter. With these people, none of this matters. They, they don't care. The violence is the point. And that is what is really difficult to get your head around if you're a right thinking person.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, they see the violence as evidence of their ideology coming to fruition. Go ahead, Derek.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Right. I think, I mean, to bring this back to a little bit where we started, questions of historical memory. One of the things that's interesting to me, leaving aside the Christian Zionists in the end times, is the notion that, you know, as, you know, as the phrase goes, one day everyone will always have been against this. And I think that's very true of Gaza and we're already seeing it start to happen. But I do think about, like, when are we going to, you know, at what point is everybody going to look back on this and say, well, you know, I oppose that, even though they didn't do anything about it, or they actively cheered it on, or, you know, whatever role they may have played, we are going to get to a point with that. And like I said, I think we're seeing people already start doing that. And it's, it's aggravating. But it's also morbidly interesting to watch that happen in real time, to watch that narrative take hold of, like, you know, oh, well, you know, we always knew this was, was bad or, you know, definitely people are starving now, but they, they, you know, I don't think they were three months ago, as though there's some way to separate what's happening now from what, you know, what they were doing three months ago. But it's all these processes of how people internalize their own participation or their own feelings about what's happening and create a comforting narrative for themselves, I think is an interesting one. And we're seeing it happen.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. And another element that's interesting to me, obviously in ways that are deeply disturbing, is we got this news today that a federal judge has basically ordered the halting of further construction of the concentration camp in Florida, Alligator Alcatraz, as the Trump administration is calling it. And the judge sided with an indigenous rights group suing on environmental grounds and giving it guidelines that effectively definitely prevents it from expanding, but also likely might make the facility shut down, which is good news. But so many of the tactics, first they borrowed from Seekot and they brought it onto U.S. soil. When you hear the deprivation, the lights on all the time, the squalid conditions.

[Matt]

The glitzy media they take of it.

[Emma Vigeland]

The caging of folks in literal cages down and bragging about the conditions being so poor, and it's outright torture, basically. And it's a continuation of the rollback of civil liberties and protections to me, from the Iraq war on. Like when we talk about how fascism is either imperialism turning inward or colonialism turning inward, like we are now using those tactics that many of the critics of the Bush administration's war on terrorists that we're using on folks that they accused of terrorism, denying them due process. This is now being used against people on US Soil, against, for my money, Americans. I don't care if you aren't like a full citizen yet. These are tactics being used on Americans. And that is a dynamic where I think, like, you know, we can talk about foreign policy not as something as separate, but as another, as just state power that can be used and molded eventually with the right guy in power for the right wing, at least against people here domestically and eventually, of course, critics of the administration.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Right. I mean, they, they've. They've embraced this. Sorry, they've embraced this. Not just in, in the camp in Florida. I mean, they're now trafficking people. I mean, we can argue about what deportation is, but deportation to me is you send somebody back to their country of origin for whatever reason, they're trafficking people. Now they've got deals in place with El Salvador, with South Sudan, with Uganda, I think most recently, to send people to countries that they're not from. They have nothing to do with. They have no, you know, no family, nothing there at all. They've probably never been there. And that's trafficking. That's not deportation. That's human trafficking. And to think, if you think that this is only going to be limited to, you know, the undesirables, whatever you define that as, they've already breached that wall. I mean, the. Initially when, you know, they came in these kind of maximal penalties for, you know, undocumented migrants that it was supposed to be. Well, these are just people who have committed, like, heinous crimes. We're going to send them into, you know, we're send them to the prison in El Salvador. We're going to send them here, we're going to send them there. And that's already been viable. I mean, they're sending anybody. It doesn't matter. I mean, there's no restriction on that. If you think that this is going to stop with undocumented migrants, it's not. They're going to go after naturalized citizenship. They're going to start to go after US Citizens at some point because there's already been in the negotiations over, for example, the C COP Prison in El Salvador. There was already talk of maybe we could send violent U.S. offenders, U.S. citizen offenders to this prison. Why? I don't know. Because prison construction is the only thing that the United States does well anymore. But, like, you know, but. But that's. The rationale is we're just gonna, you know, we're gonna eventually get to the point where we can just decide, you know, and, and they, and, you know, they've done it to us to a certain extent with the Muhammad Khalil case and others. These people are just not. They're not on board with. With our project. Like, they're not. They're not with us. So let's get rid of them. Let's ship them off. And, and, yeah, it's. It's a. It's a very steep, slippery slope to, you know, as you say, Emma, just. Just some really awful places.

[Emma Vigeland]

Eleanor, the floor is yours if you want to weigh in.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Yeah, I mean, I think that is a really good point, though, to. To talk about how it was the horrors of the Bush administration that brought this. This upon us, because I think that's something that really gets lost in the wash, you know, what with the rehabilitation that we've seen of George W. Bush lately. Oh, that's just a sweet old guy that paints and, you know, we were treated as though we were, you know. You know, I left the States during the Bush period because your girl is a historian and saw which way the wind was blowing and said, no, thank you. Of course I'm. Now I'm stuck in the uk it's not better. It's not better, but, you know, it is. It's one of these things where it was just sort of obvious. I think if you are someone who spends all their time thinking about history, where this was going, because this is where it goes. And, you know, it's not particularly different at all from what we saw happening in Europe in the ramp up to World War II. Even now, the capitulations that we're trying to see from varying governments, you know, the same sort of things that we're seeing even, like, with the Democrats being like, oh, well, maybe. Maybe if we just act a little bit. What if we were a little bit transphobic? What have we. What have we committed to? Also building a wall. What if we did all of these things and then that's going to prevent this slide into fascism, as opposed to just saying, oh, yeah, no, the fascists are actually kind of onto something. And, I mean, we're seeing it here in the UK Our government is doing exactly the same thing, but faster. And so we are really living in the outcome of treating individuals like George Bush as though this is acceptable, that any of this was ever fine, because all that does is normalize the poor treatment of people. And so, yeah, like, surprise. The violence has come down to the imperial core, which is what happens. And it's exhausting to be a historian because you just see it happen over and over again and no one ever. No one ever wants to talk about it. It's like, yeah, but this. This time it's going to be different because we have computers, so no one's going to fall for it.

[Eleanor Yanega]

I think that's an important point because it's not just the abuses that began under the Bush administration. It's the failure to prosecute any of them in the period that followed, when we were under an administration that knew better. I know they knew better, but they decided that it would be too politically costly to do anything about it. And that's how you get to the point where George W. Bush is handing out candy at a funeral like a nice old man, and everybody says, oh, aren't these guys nice? And they're all recycled back into power and there's no consequence, there's no accountability. It's a conscious choice not to do that. And same thing with the Biden administration. The notion that Donald Trump was, after everything that happened in that first term, was able to run for president again is a failure. It's a failure to be. To take some kind of action to punish wrongdoing and to say, well, once you're at that level, we really don't want to. Want to have anything to do with that. We're just going to kind of say, okay, that's over. Let's move on. And of course, we don't move on because it always comes back unless you prevent it from coming back.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. Turning the page as we did, it had major consequences. Lastly, here we have some IMs from set the list PhD who is describing himself as a history nerd and wanted to make sure I got this in before we let you go. Seth says, I wonder about these whistleblowers in the context of the myth of the disillusioned crusader, if such a trope was a historical reality or a later fabrication. Also interesting, in the context of medieval obsession with the Levant, the West has always had this weird fixation on this region. Eleanor, if you mind responding to that.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Oh, God, no. I'll respond to that all day long. I mean, I think that in the medieval Context, the disillusioned crusader is usually one who, it didn't get what he wanted out of it. And we tend to see the disillusioned crusader come up more in the later Crusades. Not the first one, but you know, the second one, which was a disaster that, I mean, they were. Take a pick. It's all a disaster.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Really worked so.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

And even then, half of everyone just died in a ditch with having dysentery. So you know, like it's. So it's kind of a way that we relate to crusaders. So when they're kind of complaining that what they expected was going to happen didn't happen, we kind of in a postmodern way layer on our own understanding of this as saying, oh yeah. And then they like kind of got, got wise to the humanist project and they, they knew better after that. And I think that, that that's a really human urge to kind of see our own society in the past. But fundamentally, yeah, medieval people don't share these kind of same ideals. And a lot of the time they're just kind of complaining that their project didn't work. Although a lot of these white boys do go home and they, they kind of actually like Muslim people now that, that is something that we see. They take home a lot of food. They think that that's awesome. You know, it's a bit of a myth that there weren't already spices and stuff in Europe, but it like gets worked up way more. Get like a lot of white boys who are the equivalent of Weebs for the Middle east and women as well. Like, so you do see that. So there is a cross cultural thing. And depending on what crusade you're talking about, sometimes they really like it. I mean, everybody loves Saladin for, for whatever reason. So, you know, you could be a disillusioned crusader, but it's usually more about, oh, I'm sad that the mission failed and a little less like, oh, wait a minute, it turns out that, you know, all of these Norman guys just wanted their own castle. You get less of that on record anyway because anyone who would think like that isn't going to be given the power or ability to write that story down and then keep it because it just goes against the official narrative of what people want to say.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, well said. Appreciate it so much, everybody. Check out your guys's new podcast. I don't have the name written down. I'm so sorry.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Welcome to the Crusades. You can find it at welcome to the Crusades.com all one word. Welcome to the Crusades.com okay, well that's where you can find that and you know our, both of our shows, if you go to either of our shows websites you can, you can find links to it there too.

[Emma Vigeland]

We'll put a link down below in the description. Really I know what I'll be doing this weekend. Thanks so much you guys. Really appreciate it.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Thanks so much Emma.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Thanks Emma.

[Emma Vigeland]

All right, with that folks, we'll wrap up the free part of this program, head into the fun part of the program. We'll take your calls and read your IMs. Matt, what's happening on Left reckoning?

[Matt]

Yeah, Left reckoning. We're gonna have a Sunday show for y' all this weekend. Patreon.com LeftReckoning to get that which our weekly Sunday show. Also I want to do a call to action here and I have this ready to go. This is from Jasper Nathaniel. There's this 16 year old Palestinian American boy and I'll just read what Jasper said. Urgent action requested to free Mohammed. Mohammed zaher Ibrahim, a 16 year old Palestinian American has been imprisoned in Israel since February. I just spoke to his lawyer. His case has been escalated to a higher court judge. A possible deal is on the table. Muhammad could be freed if he leaves Palestine for one year. His parents are fine with this. They can live together with family in Florida. But it's not finalized. Muhammad's lawyer says extra pressure from the US Embassy right now could push his release across the finish line. So please call your local representatives and I've retweeted this. It's one of the top, most recently things I've retweeted. If you want these talking points that Jasper has shared. So this is a good call to action for the week. If people want to help get this kid out of Israeli. I mean in America. The conditions that I don't even want to imagine.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, he's going through since February. That's. We'll put a link to that to Jasper's tweet so we can, you guys can click on it and see what the best talking points are to try to push that over the finish line. All right, quick break and we'll see you on the other side in the fun Half.

[Sam Cedar]

Left is best. Jamie and I may have a disagreement.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, you can't just say whatever you.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Want about people just cuz you're rich.

[Sam Cedar]

I have an absolute right to mock them on YouTub YouTube.

[Eleanor Yanega]

He's up there buggy whipping like he's the boss.

[Sam Cedar]

I am not your employer. You know I'm tired Of the negativity. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to upset you. You're nervous. You're a little bit upset. You're riled up.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Yeah, maybe you should rethink your defense of that.

[Sam Cedar]

You idiots. We're just going to get rid of you.

[Eleanor Yanega]

All right, but dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude.

[Sam Cedar]

You want to smoke this joint?

[Eleanor Yanega]

Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

Do you feel like you are a dinosaur? Good. Exactly. I'm happy now. It's a win, win. It's a win, win, win.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Uh, hell yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Now listen to me. 2, 3, 4, 5 times 8479-065014-57238, 56, 271 half. 5 8. 3.9 billion. Wow. He's the ultimate math nerd. Don't you see? Why don't you get a real job instead of stealing vitriol and hatred? You left wing Limbaugh. Everybody's taking their dumb juice today. Come on, Sammy. Dance, dance, dance. Grandpa, I had my first post coital scene with a woman. I'm hoping to add more moves to my repertoire. All I have is the dip and the swirl. Fine, we can double dip. Yes. This is is a perfect moment.

[Eleanor Yanega]

No, wait.

[Sam Cedar]

What? You make under a million dollars a year. You're scum. You're nothing. Excuse me? Fuck you, you fucking liberal elite. I think you belong in jail. Thank you for saying that, Sam. You're a horrible, despicable person. All right, gonna take quick break. I want to take a moment to talk to some of the libertarians out there. Take whatever vehicle you want to drive to the library. What you're talking about is jibber jabber.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Classic.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'm feeling more chill already. Good.

[Sam Cedar]

Donald Trump can kiss all of our asses.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Hey, Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

Hey, Andy. Are you guys ready to do some evil? Hitler was such an idiot. That guy might be a Nazi.

[Guest (likely Derek or Eleanor)]

Agreed.

[Sam Cedar]

No. Death to America. You. Yes.

[Emma Vigeland]

Wow.

[Sam Cedar]

Wow. That's weird. No way. Unbelievable. This guy's got a really good hook. Wow. But Sam, I gotta get off. No worries. Let's, let's. I want to just flesh this out a little bit. I mean, look, it's a free speech issue. If you don't like me.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hey, hey, hey, hey.

[Sam Cedar]

Shut up.

[Eleanor Yanega]

Thank you for calling into the majority report. Sam will be with you shortly.