3567 - Trump Targets Kilmar Abrego Garcia; Indigenous Identity in America w/ Joseph Lee

Summary

The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3567 — Trump Targets Kilmar Abrego Garcia; Indigenous Identity in America w/ Joseph Lee
Date: August 25, 2025
Host: Emma Vigeland (in for Sam Seder)
Guest: Joseph Lee, author of Nothing More of This Land: Community Power and the Search for Indigenous Identity

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Overview

This episode of The Majority Report features in-depth coverage of two pressing issues: the Trump administration’s persecution of Kilmar Abrego Garcia—a political prisoner and immigrant rights activist—and an extended interview with Joseph Lee on Indigenous identity in America, focusing on the complexities of tribal history, land, colonialism, and economic survival. Vigeland and the Majority team provide sharp, critical analysis with their signature irreverence and clarity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Persecution of Kilmar Abrego Garcia (02:29–24:48)

Background and Timeline

• Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland metalworker and immigrant rights organizer, was:
  • Previously held in El Salvador’s notorious Cecot prison, where he was severely beaten.
  • Returned to the US in June by court order, which had barred his deportation to El Salvador since 2019 due to credible threats of violence and persecution.
  • Released from Tennessee jail on Friday after 160+ days of incarceration under horrific conditions, only to be immediately re-arrested on trumped-up human smuggling charges.

Host’s Analysis and Context

• Emma Vigeland draws a straight line between the administration’s actions and deliberate targeting of powerless individuals, arguing that the spectacle is meant to terrorize grassroots activism and immigrant families:
  • “This is a mafia shakedown administration of the highest order... They go after you if they think you have no power. This is across the board with their targeting of immigrants.” (07:53)
• The administration is allegedly coercing testimony and threatening extreme measures (“spin the wheel” of deportation countries) to extract false confessions or pleas.

Emotional Toll and Human Cost

• Vigeland highlights the emotional reunion between Garcia and his family:
  • “They’re like holding each other for minutes on end because they don’t know what’s gonna happen. And he could be sent to a foreign country he has no connection to.” (13:41)
• Garcia, speaking through a translator, shares hope and resilience:
  • “When I was detained, I remembered memories with my family... Those moments will continue to give me hope, to continue in this fight... God is with us and God will never leave us. God will bring justice to all of the injustice that we are suffering.” (12:16)

The Administration’s Racism and Authoritarianism

• Vigeland and Matt cast the entire affair as an exercise in fascist hysteria, intended more as a publicity spectacle of cruelty than rational policy:
  • “This is entirely an exercise... in fascist hysteria and in a demographic panic by white supremacists... you have to be frothing at the mouth, hysterical. For this to make any kind of sense.” (14:20, Matt)

Due Process, Kidnapping, and Legal Evasion

• Vigeland distinguishes between flawed deportation process and outright violation of constitutional rights:
  • “They’re not deporting him, they’re kidnapping him without basically any due process... There is some semblance of a process. They are kidnapping them and taking them to countries they’ve never been. This is happening and has happened to other people.” (15:40)

Tom Holman’s Rhetoric and “MS-13” Racism (17:21–22:36)

• Former ICE director Tom Holman delivers a hardline, dehumanizing justification:
  • “He is absolutely going to be deported... He’s a criminal alien... a member of MS-13... a human trafficker. His family can go with him because he’s leaving.” (17:32)
• Vigeland forcefully rebuts baseless “wife beater” and “MS-13” claims, underscoring selective targeting and lack of due process for non-white immigrants:
  • “Those are two accusations that have a lot more legal weight than this complaint by his wife that she ended up retracting and they’re still in this relationship. And either way... he would still have to have his rights protected under the Constitution before being kidnapped to a foreign country.” (18:00)

Policy, Quotas, and Public Opinion

• The hosts connect the administration’s behavior to broader anti-immigrant quota games and the politics of demographic fear, noting Trump’s increasingly negative polling on immigration, even among his base.
• Vigeland calls for stronger Democratic messaging in response to these abuses:
  • “...perhaps we can start to have rhetoric on our side that reflects that, but guess I’m not holding my breath right now.” (23:43)

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2. Interview: Joseph Lee on Indigenous Identity in America (31:03–58:21)

Early Life and Tribal History

• Joseph Lee recounts growing up as Aquinnah Wampanoag on Martha’s Vineyard, experiencing both tribal stories and the standard “Pilgrims and Thanksgiving” American mythos:
  • “I grew up also with, you know, knowing it as Gay Head. And then... the name changed back to Aquinnah. Obviously Aquinnah is the original Wampanoag name for the place.” (31:16)
• Lee stresses the need to bridge the gap between “lost” Indigenous history and colonial narratives, filling in the missing pieces for both Indigenous and non-Indigenous people.

The Specificity of Eastern Indigenous Experience

• Contrasts popular images of Western plains reservations with often-overlooked Eastern tribes:
  • “We tend to overlook... tribes in the east coast, especially the Northeast. My tribe... is a really important part of Indigenous history, American history, that we tend to overlook.” (34:54)

Martha’s Vineyard as Microcosm

• Lee offers a nuanced portrait: Martha’s Vineyard is an Indigenous homeland, a historical Black community, an active Deaf community, and now heavily gentrified by wealthy summer tourists.
  • “The way that the island has impacted us... is through the tourism and hype and celebrity culture... property values are really high... for tribal members... it’s really, really hard to afford to live there.” (36:47)
• This is framed as both gentrification and an ongoing phase of colonialism under another name:
  • “Colonialism never ended. I think the form or means just changed and evolved.” (39:13)

Capitalism and Survival

• US land allotment policy forcibly shifted land from tribal to individual ownership, facilitating the mass loss of Indigenous land and economic vulnerability.
• Tourism becomes the main industry for surviving tribal members, providing opportunity and precarity:
  • “In some ways, I think that’s a microcosm of sort of this bigger picture of American colonialism and land grabbing that’s happened across the country, but on Martha’s Vineyard...” (40:51)
• Ongoing “rock and a hard place” choices: economic survival means selling out to gentrifiers and summer tourists.

Colonialism, Treaties, and Power Dynamics

• Lee draws historical parallels between centuries-old colonial strategies and modern tourist, real-estate, and extraction schemes:
  • “Maybe a few hundred years ago, they didn’t need to have a piece of paper... then times change, they say okay, we need a couple lines on a piece of paper... times change a little more and they say we need to pass some laws.” (44:09)
• Vigeland cites Palestine as a global contemporary parallel—tourism, treaty law, occupation—a recurring machine.

Economic Alternatives and Food Sovereignty

• Indian gaming (casinos) and land-based tourism are imperfect, externally dependent options.
• Lee highlights a resurgence of “food sovereignty” movements as efforts to retake land, resources, and self-sufficiency:
  • “That’s tribes trying to retake everything, retake the land, retake culture, retake their way of life. And I think that’s why you’re seeing such massive legal fights over energy extraction and these things.” (47:47)

Land Fights and Environmental Justice

• Tribes’ unique legal status and landholding make them powerful actors in environmental and climate struggles:
  • “Maybe a belated lesson, but I think a lot of people with this and the previous Trump administration are learning tribes can play a really powerful role here because of their position, because of their land, because of their legal rights...” (49:41)
• Example: The Miccosukee tribe’s recent legal victory in Florida blocking a Trump administration development project.

Solidarity, Dispersal, and Community-Building

• Lee discusses the ongoing dispersal of tribal members (driven by colonial policies and economic forces) as both a challenge and a potential strength:
  • “We have to find new ways of building systems and community to go forward.” (53:03)
  • Wampanoag language classes via Zoom exemplify creative adaptation and resilience.

Indigenous Rights and Climate Activism

• Lee urges that conservation and climate efforts must center Indigenous knowledge rather than merely donate to white-led nonprofits:
  • “That is the thing that will actually work... in many cases, it’s the thing that Indigenous people have been trying to do and in some cases, legally prevented from doing for generations.” (57:39)

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Notable Quotes

• Emma Vigeland (on Kilmar Abrego Garcia):
  “This is a mafia shakedown administration of the highest order and also such a typical right wing fascist administration in the way that they are picking on someone like Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was a metal worker in Maryland. They go after you if they think you have no power.” (07:53)

• Matt (on the spectacle of immigrant enforcement):
  “This is entirely an exercise... in fascist hysteria and in a demographic panic by white supremacists.” (14:20)

• Tom Holman (ex-ICE Dir., on Garcia):
  “He is absolutely going to be deported in this country. He’s not going to walk the streets of this nation... He’s a criminal alien. He’s a member of MS-13... His family can go with him because he’s leaving.” (17:32)

• Joseph Lee (on the shifting face of colonialism):
  “Colonialism never ended. I think the form or the means just changed and evolved.” (39:13)

• Joseph Lee (on food sovereignty and land):
  “That’s tribes trying to retake everything, retake the land, retake culture, retake their way of life. And I think that’s why you’re seeing such massive legal fights over... energy extraction and these things, because that’s a real challenge to the system...” (47:47)

• Joseph Lee (on environmental justice):
  “The model is kind of like donate a bunch of money to a nonprofit owned... by rich white people, and then the environment will be okay. But obviously that has not worked so it’s clear we need to try something different.” (57:39)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:29–14:20: Emma Vigeland details the targeting and ordeal of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
• 14:20–24:48: Discussion of due process, racism, legal manipulation; Tom Holman’s hardline statements.
• 31:03–58:21: In-depth interview with Joseph Lee on Indigenous identity, land struggles, colonial history, and present-day economic and climate activism.
• 55:44–58:05: Joseph Lee on the intersection of climate, conservation, and Indigenous rights.

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Memorable Moments

• The raw emotional depiction of Garcia’s reunion and the fear present at his hearing, underscoring the brutality of the immigration system.
• Vigeland’s blunt debunking of administration talking points, exposing their racism and hypocrisy.
• Lee’s story about the evolution of Aquinnah from “Gay Head” back to its Indigenous name, and the vivid tale of the cliff-staining whale—rarely heard Indigenous folklore brought to the fore.
• The linkage of modern gentrification on Martha’s Vineyard to centuries-old patterns of white extraction of Indigenous land and displacement.

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Tone and Style

The episode is characterized by clear moral urgency, without losing analytical rigor or accessibility. Emma Vigeland and her co-hosts balance anger, humanity, cutting humor, and informative interviews. Joseph Lee’s portions are thoughtful and experiential, drawing out complexity and rarely-heard perspectives.

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For Further Exploration

• Read: Nothing More of This Land by Joseph Lee (link provided in the episode).
• Track: Developments in Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s legal struggle and broader campaigns for immigration justice.
• Support: Local and national Indigenous rights organizations, and immigrant legal defense funds.

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Transcript

[Emma Vigeland]

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[Joseph Lee]

The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.

[Emma Vigeland]

It is Monday, August 25, 2025. My name is Emma Vigeland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Joseph Lee, author of Nothing More of this Land, Community Power and the Search for Indigenous Identity. Also on the program, political prisoner Kilmar Abrego Garcia was Former freed on Friday but arrested again on Monday as the White House threatens to send him to Uganda. Some national guardsmen in D.C. start carrying firearms and Trump confirms he's sending them to Chicago. Next, Immigration agents targeted a bilingual daycare in Washington, D.C. over the weekend. Trump threatens to cancel funds for the reconstruction of the Francis Scott Key Bridge because Maryland's governor criticized his authoritarian performance. It's also not a coincidence that he's targeting basically any Democrat who's a black person. Israel bombed southern Gaza's most important hospital. If you recall, we just spoke to Dr. Lubani who was stationed there, is stationed there. They killed at least four journalists, nearly 20 people in total, including an Associated Press freelancer. Israel also bombed Yemen's capital over the weekend. European postal agencies start cutting off shipments of smaller goods to the US Because Trump keeps going back and forth on the de minimis tariff exemption. Unions raised the alarm over a proposed freight rail mega merger that would automate many things and increase the likelihood of toxic spills. Norfolk Southern is one of the companies trying to mega merge. Didn't something just happen with those guys a few years back? Pretty big deal. Trump announces the government will purchase a 10% stake in intel with nearly $9 billion in taxpayer money moved around from the Chips Act. The DOJ releases audio of Trump's personal attorney interviewing Ghislaine Maxwell. And it is not fooling anybody. Well, except maybe his diehards. And lastly, Bernie Sanders is headed to Maine to campaign with Graham Platner over Labor Day weekend. Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show everybody. It's Monday. Funday Monday. Hello, Matt. Hello, Brian. Sam is out this week. He will be back after Labor Day on Monday enjoying a well deserved vacation. Let's get into it here. So Kamar Abrego Garcia was freed, released from a Tennessee jail on Friday after being incarcerated first in the torture prison in Cecot in El Salvador where his lawyer said to the courts that he was severely beaten. Then the administration was forced to send him back to the United States in June. A reminder that There was a 2019 order from a judge on Kilmar Abrego Garcia's status in the United States that barred him from being sent to El Salvador because of the fears that he credibly told to the court and they believed him about basically violence and political persecution and seemingly on purpose. In spite of that, the administration sent him there because of the sadism that is involved Here and the example making here, because God forbid there was some grassroots activism to try to return this man to his family. God forbid Chris Van Hollen and other Democrats went down there and highlighted his case. Nazi Stephen Miller, president and shadow president, is clearly a driving force behind this. They're now accusing him of criminal human smuggling with zero evidence and trying to.

[Matt]

Get other people they have on the hook for deportation to testify against them, giving them promises like, okay, we won't send you to wherever Uganda seekat, you know, spin the wheel if you make up stuff to allow us to detain him.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's what they're doing here now. So they are trying to coerce him by saying, we're going to send you to Uganda, a country he has never been insane, to coerce him into pleading guilty to charges of smuggling that he is clearly not guilty of. This is a mafia shakedown administration of the highest order and also such a typical right wing fascist administration in the way that they are picking on someone like Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was a metal worker in Maryland. They go after you if they think you have no power. This is across the board with their targeting of immigrants. They're not going after some people working at Meta, I'll tell you that, who may have overstayed their visas. But just to give people a sense of the torment that is being inflicted on this man and his family, this was Friday after he was released from Putnam County Jail and reunited with his family. He was away from them for over 160 days in horrific conditions, despite doing absolutely nothing wrong. That's him with his song, I believe. So I think. There we go. People get a sense of just how incredibly emotional obviously that was. But no peace for this family because the Trump administration has made them a target. We now move to this morning where he showed up to this hearing that is about trying to coerce him to plead guilty to be sent off to Uganda. And on this morning, his lawyer asked a federal judge basically to block this so that he can have a full immigration trial. And he's Abreu Garcia spoke with a translator from CASA outside of the courthouse this morning. When I was detained, I remembered memories with my family going to the park with them, going to the trampoline with my children. Those moments will continue to give me hope, to continue in this fight. Ato a la familia tambien quian su frido separaciones constante paradas. To all the families who have been separated or to all the families who have been threatened with family Separation. This administration has hit us hard. But I want to tell you guys something. God is with us and God will never leave us. God will bring justice to all of the injustice that we are suffering. So powerful to hear from him there. I can't imagine the trauma that he's gone through and this saga. If you just take a step back and think about how the White House is so terrified of putting faces to these people that they are torturing, destroying their lives, abusing illegally via our clearly broken immigration system that they are exploiting for fascistic ends. Their argument was basically that after these dozens of folks were kidnapped from American soil and sent to seekot, that they did not have the power to do anything on that front, that now it was in their hands and quietly they usher him back in. But now they have to work in their mind to send him out and make an example of him again because he's even more threatening to them now because his presence even back in the United States, the human face, him hugging his wife. There was other footage. You know, I was like on the verge of tears this morning watching. We didn't include it, but it almost felt a little voyeuristic because the New York Post had it. But they're like holding each other for minutes on end because they don't know what's gonna happen. And he could be sent to a foreign country he has no connection to. He's even more of a threat to them now because he shows that they are not all powerful and scary, that we can stand up against this administration despite seemingly insurmountable power imbalances.

[Matt]

I saw somebody asked a question in the chat. Why can't they just admit you made a mistake and free the guy? And the answer is, because none of this is rational. This is entirely an exercise, a billions and billions and billions of dollars exercise in fascist hysteria and in a demographic panic by white supremacists. The idea, and also, like, lying about the state of crime and the situation in this country as opposed to, like, the threat made by immigrants. It needs to be. You need to be frothing at the mouth, hysterical. For this to make any kind of sense. It needs to be a panic. So they need to act as if it's one and one. When you start acknowledging, like, oh, maybe we shouldn't have sent that hairdresser to El Salvador for four months to be sexually. I mean, raped or at least harassed. I can't remember.

[Emma Vigeland]

No, he was forced to give head to. He was raped. He was raped by a prison guard there.

[Matt]

And, you know, he's just. That's just like, part of the cost of doing business because we have to act as if this is like, you know, saving America or some shit. No, it is one of the darkest sort of mass hysterical events that we've gone through since, like, the Salem Witch Trials or, you know, lynching black people after the restoration of white supremacy after the Civil War.

[Emma Vigeland]

And deportation is a legal process that would be at the. No matter our disagreements, our severe disagreements with many of our immigration processes. There is one that is delineated. They're not deporting him, they're kidnapping him without basically any due process. Deportation would have come in theory, however flawed it is because our immigration courts exploit this legal gray area for people who aren't citizens. But there is some semblance of a process. They are kidnapping them and taking them to countries they've never been. This is happening and has happened to other people, and they're attempting it now with perhaps the most high profile political prisoner of this fascist ICE administration.

[Matt]

And the truth is that we've long been prioritizing violent offenders for deportation when it comes to the undocumented population. And so that's still part of it. If you go to ICE's, like, Twitter page, they're not talking about how we just, like, went to Home Depot and deported, like, seven guys. It's, look at this criminal. But they need to also get their numbers up because they are embarrassed that, you know, Obama and Biden had such high deportation numbers, so now they want to get their numbers up. This is a quota game and you can't hit your numbers if you're, you know, being precious about people's civil liberties.

[Emma Vigeland]

Let's hear the Bulldog himself, Tom Holman, lay out exactly what they intend to do here. This was over the weekend, speaking about what they intend to do with this man and his family.

[Brian]

Response to accusations that you're weaponizing the immigration system and will, in fact, Abrego.

[Joseph Lee]

Garcia soon be heading to Uganda.

[Tom Holman]

He is absolutely going to be deported in this country. He's not going to walk the streets of this nation so he can enjoy the little time he has with his family. And for the person who says, we're not going to separate family, his family can go with him because he's leaving. He's going to be deported. Look, he's a criminal alien. He's a member of Ms. 13, which is now designated terrorist. He's a wife beater. He's a human trafficker. He's been indicted for human trafficking.

[Emma Vigeland]

Can you pause this? The Wife beater stuff gets me so mad. His wife, who he's still with. Look, you know I don't like making claims about people's personal lives. Things can get heated. I don't. Of course, domestic abuse is horrific. But she basically retracted her claim and they worked it out and they're still together. Now, if there could have. If she filed charges, this would be appropriate. But there's a thing like, I don't know, the Secretary of defense, there was a police report filed against him by a woman at a conservative convention that said that she thought she was drugged by him, that he took her phone away, blocked the door to the hotel room he brought her back to and pinned her on the bed. She. She went to a hospital, she got a report done. But is he gonna be deported to Uganda based on that accusation, which is a little bit more severe? Rape and drugging somebody, Is that gonna happen? Or how about Donald Trump, who's found liable civilly of rape and sexual assault? Those are two accusations that have a lot more legal weight than this complaint by his wife that she ended up retracting and they're still in this relationship. And either way, it would not matter even if he had done all of these things, even if he was this horrible man, that he would still have to have his rights protected under the constitution before being kidnapped to a foreign country.

[Matt]

Yeah, it's a microcosm of why places have things like sanctuary laws, because a woman should be able to report a domestic incident without worrying that the guy gets thrown into, like, gulag someplace. Irretrievably right. Like, that's not actually justice. It's a. It's a. It's a parody of justice. That. Yeah.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Tom Holman]

Native terrorist.

[Matt]

Also, the ms.13 thing and then the compounding terrorist thing. There's no evidence for that. It's though. It's just like one cop suspected it based off how they're interpreting.

[Tom Holman]

Knuckles White beater. He's a human trafficker. He's been indicted for human trafficking, alien smuggling. This is. He's a bad person. He's not going to be here. He's been order removed twice. Order removed by two different federal judges. He's going to leave this country in the very near future and his family can go with him. I can't see.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, I'm so concerned about his wife. I'm going to deport her to Uganda with him. He's a bad guy. You know, his. His wife. No Republican's ever been accused of domestic violence. Right. Or being unkind to their wife in the home. What, are we gonna reopen conversations about marital rape again on the right or what? What's up?

[Matt]

That this still has to be litigated is a sign of like a. Just a joke, a circus. Like, if this was all open and shut, then this whole thing about like, yeah, he's been ordered removed twice. Yeah. Why. Why was he ordered to be returned from the first place? Cuz y' all don't know what the fuck you're doing.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right? And the charges he's talking about are as frivolous as anything.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Emma Vigeland]

Like purposefully.

[Matt]

Exactly. Squeezing different types of migrants. Say, hey, make stuff up against Kilmar or we're gonna send you out. Like, okay, I can say, yeah, I was totally human trafficking with him all the time. Crazy. Yeah. And his knuckle tattoos do say I'm as 13.

[Tom Holman]

Whoever said we're taking advantage of broken immigration system. What do they do? What do those people do the last four years about this broken immigration system? They let 10.5 million people cross that border. Sex trafficking women and children, all time high. Overdose deaths of fat in the all time high. Number of terrorists all time high. They didn't do anything. President Trump is keeping the promise to American people to enforce it.

[Matt]

Like, and opioid deaths are going down. Like, this is hysterical. Like, this is. You know, there was a piece in our packet today about the proud boys. And basically they're like, we're not protesting because we got everything I want. This is just proud boy type of hysterical chicken little racism. The sky is falling against all of our white people to millions and millions. They always inflate the numbers, and it's always terrorists. It's not like, oh, maybe Venezuelans because we decided to destroy their economy because Trump wanted to do a coup when he was in prison the first time.

[Tom Holman]

And that's what we're doing. We'll make this country safer every day by removing people like Abrego. Garcia.

[Emma Vigeland]

It just.

[Brian]

Just to follow up, Tom, so. So just to be clear, is Garcia headed to Uganda? The lawyers apparently telling the AP, the DHS notified on Friday at 4pm that they may remove him to Uganda in 72 hours.

[Joseph Lee]

Can you confirm that.

[Tom Holman]

Uganda's on table? We'll see. I mean, you know, doj, you know, immigration attorneys and the judges, they're all in negotiations, and we'll see what happens. But Uganda's on the table. We have an agreement with him. It's on the table. Absolutely.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay, joke. So what are the charges about smuggling? Are they supposed to be. Are they going to Play that out in court or what? Oh, when he says absolutely he's going to be deported to Uganda, he basically means we're going to pursue this kangaroo court. Unless you volunteer. Volunteer to go to a country you've never been, a continent, perhaps you've never been.

[Matt]

I mean, I just can't believe, and I don't want to believe that there's like a huge mass, if I had to guess, probably about 25 to 30% of Americans who hear that and don't think that's the most ludicrous thing I've ever seen. This guy's been in Maryland as a union worker and you're going to send him to Uganda and say, this is for the safety of our country. It's again, it's Chicken Little Nazism.

[Emma Vigeland]

I would love to see in the Democratic Party the complete collapse of his polling on immigration reflected in their rhetoric. It's basically been a collapse on his best issue that has happened mostly in a vacuum without their partisan input, with the exception of our more progressive members and people like Maxwell Frost and Chris Van Hollen going down to El Salvador and others. I should say there were some other representatives whose names I'm blanking on right now, but making hay out of it. Certainly not from leadership. This was supposedly Donald Trump's best issue, and he is underwater, basically nationally, ever since the Los Angeles National Guard stunt. He temporarily recovered after the Abrego Garcia case, but he's back in negatives significantly. Perhaps we can start to have rhetoric on our side that reflects that, but guess I'm not holding my breath right now.

[Matt]

We will win.

[Emma Vigeland]

In a moment, we'll be speaking to Joseph Lee. But first, a word from two of our sponsors. Leave it to a professional. Some of your. One sec. I think this might be out of order. Apologies. Yeah, hold on one sec. Sorry, guys. Oh, here we go. So, zocdoc is one of my favorite sponsors. And you know your social feed is filled with a bunch of different health trends. Can red light therapy solve every skin problem? Should you be slamming olive oil shots? Well, let's give the algorithm a rest, please, and stop trying to find this stuff on the Internet. Leave it to a professional. With ZocDoc, it is easy. You can find doctors that are right for you and instantly book an appointment. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. Zocdoc lets you book in network appointments for more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty. You can filter for doctors who are near you, take your insurance, are a good fit for you, etc. You can find the type that you're looking for. From good bedside manner to fast wait times to doctors with the best listening skills. You can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a visit. Appointments made through ZOCDOC also happen fast, typically within 24 to 72 hours of booking and you can even get same day appointments. Zocdoc is how I found my dentist who I really like. I was cycling through dentists I wasn't crazy about. This guy doesn't rip me off and I found him through ZocDoc. I found other doctors through ZOCDOC before, especially if you're new to a neighborhood and you want somebody close by. At least in my instance that's how I kind of move from my more childhood doctors in New Jersey I was still seeing to adult doctors here in New York and in Brooklyn. Zocdoc helped me make it easy there. And also it's so annoying to have to call your doctors and they never play phone tag. This gives you an interface where you can book online and you can see what appointments are available. I'd like to thank zocdoc for sponsoring today's episode. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com majority to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z O C doc.com Majority Zocdoc.com Majority we will put a link to this below in the YouTube video and episode descriptions. And lastly, let's talk about comfort that shows up day in day out. Cozy Earth nailed comfort with their bamboo sheets and their eucalyptus pants. Next level, Cozy Earth. I actually have a duvet from them that I adore. It's great both in the winter and in the summer. I don't know how they do it but it somehow temperature regulates in both instances so I don't have to like add a bunch of blankets in the winter or take it off in the summer. The duvet. It's great. I also was very happy to hear some feedback on some Cozy Earth pajama sets that I got for folks. I got it from my mother in law last Christmas and she literally says it's her favorite pair. The Cozy Earth also has the everywhere pant. Sam is constantly raving about it. It's both casual and both like you can wear it in casual settings, but it's also one you can wear in formal settings and the comfort is exactly the same. Cozy Earth's bamboo sheets are temperature regulating. Guaranteed to give you a comfortable night's sleep. They naturally wick away heat and moisture from your body, helping you sleep several degrees cooler. Try them during the hottest nights of the year. If you are not in love, return them hassle free. But trust me, you're not going to want to. There's a 10 year warranty on all bedding products. Thanks to Cozy Earth for sponsoring this episode. Go to cozyearth.com and use our code majorityreport for 40% off the softest bedding, bath and approval apparel. Sorry. And if you get a post purchase survey, tell them you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Built for real life, made to keep up with yours. Cozy earth. That's cozyearth.com and use our code majorityreport one word for 40% off bedding, bath and approval link will be down below in the YouTube episode descriptions. Again cozyearth.com majorityreport for up to 40% off best selling temperature regulating sheets, apparel and more. Quick break and when we come back, we'll be joined by Joseph Lee. It.

[Brian]

Sam.

[Emma Vigeland]

We are back and we are joined now by Joseph Lee, author of Nothing More of this Community, Power and the Search for Indigenous Identity. Joseph, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[Joseph Lee]

Hey, thanks for having me.

[Emma Vigeland]

Of course. So your book talks about your experience growing up as a member of the Aquinnah Wampanoag. Am I saying it okay?

[Joseph Lee]

Nation Aquina. Aquina. Wampanoag.

[Emma Vigeland]

Wampanoag. Gotcha. Which is indigenous to Martha's Vineyard. Aquinnah was called Gay Head when I was a kid. And now it's Aquinnah again. I mean, we can just start there. Like what was it, the late 90s or the early 2000s when Martha's Vineyard finally changed that area of the island back to the indigenous name.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, it was, it was the late 90s. And yeah, so I grew up also with, you know, knowing it as Gay Head. And then when I was, when I was a kid, the name changed and obviously Aquinnah is the original name, the Wampanoag name for the place. And then Gay Head is the, I guess colonial name you would call it. And then in the 90s, the town voted to change it back to Aquinnah.

[Emma Vigeland]

People may know Martha's Vineyard as a vacation spot for wealthier people on the east coast off the coast of Massachusetts. The Obamas, I think they sold their house there, but they had a big kind of mansion there for a while. But you Open your book talking a bit about the famous Aquinnah Cliffs and an indigenous story about them. Can you speak a little bit about that? Because so much of what you write about is just like this lost history or this very de. Emphasized history versus, say, Massachusetts. Oh, the Mayflower, all. You know, what about that contrast was important for you to highlight.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah. So, I mean, I should say that also, you know, I grew up in Massachusetts and grew up with those same stories of learning about the Mayflower and the Pilgrims and the first Thanksgiving. And at the same time, I was also growing up in the tribe and learning these stories, like the one you mentioned, where the clay cliffs were stained, the colorful colors they have today by one of our ancient leaders who was a giant, and he would go out into the water and grab whales and, like, smash them against the cliffs, and their blood would stain the cliffs red, and then the whale would feed the entire community. And so those are the stories I grew up on in the tribal side, and then on the other side, I grew up sort of with the American standardized colonial version. And, yeah, it was really important to me to tell and share those stories, just because I think that's the truth, and that's a story that has been ignored and overlooked for so often, even to the point where myself growing up in the tribe, I kind of knew that the sort of American first Thanksgiving version of the story wasn't the whole story, but I didn't really know what else there was. And so that was one of the big goals of the book, was try to fill in some of those gaps for myself, for my tribe, and also for everybody.

[Emma Vigeland]

And how does the. Your experience on Martha's Vineyard with, you know, your connection to your community and growing up in Massachusetts on and off the island? Why did you think it was important to kind of make clear the uniqueness, too, of your experience where you compare it to, say, maybe tribes out on reservations and that life in the west versus a more. A less, I think, discussed story of Indigenous communities that were basically, like, pushed out because of land deals on the East Coast. We. We don't typically speak about Indigenous rights in this country with. With that area of the country in mind.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I think that was definitely one of the biggest motivators that I had, is I always sort of felt that sort of stereotypical standardized version of Native history. The more Western story, the Plains, the reservations, the deserts out West. But I didn't really see that much conversation about tribes in the east coast, especially the Northeast. Like my tribe, I think that's a really important part of Indigenous history, American history, that we tend to overlook. And I think another really important aspect of that is that, you know, this is all Indigenous history. And Indigenous history is really diverse, nuanced and complex, whereas we have sort of this flattened, really narrow version of what it is in this country. Like, you have to look a certain way, you have to be a certain way. Indigenous history means this very one specific thing. But actually, if you look at all tribes across the country, you see all these sort of different histories of, you know, Native people living outside of their communities, living in cities, coming and going. And so, you know, in one way, yeah, I wanted to tell what I felt was a sort of unique, unheard indigenous story, but I also wanted to look for a lot of those connections and similarities across different tribal nations.

[Emma Vigeland]

And so how does Martha's Vineyard play into this, this history one from an Indigenous perspective, your tribe, but as well as its role in just like American colonial conquest more broadly, including, you know, it's fairly unique place in American civil rights history as it relates to slavery, it kind of all blends together to paint this picture of this very specific part of the country.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I think Martha's Vineyard is a good example of how history and modern life is just more complicated than we tend to think of it, you know. Yeah. The common vision of Martha's Vineyard is that it's just fancy celebrities, presidents, vacation spots. It's like multimillion dollar homes. But it's also the home of my tribe. It's a home of a really long time historical black community. There's a really active deaf community on the island. There's a really enormous Brazilian Portuguese immigrant population on the island. And so, yeah, the island is just this really unique place. But we like native identity. We think of it in like, just this one very specific way. And for my tribe in particular, the way that the island has impacted us primarily in recent years is through sort of the tourism and hype and celebrity culture where we have this massive influx of summer visitors every year. The homes are really expensive. There are pools and private beaches, all of these things. And so property values are really high. And that means taxes are really high. And so for tribal members on the island, it's really, really hard to afford to live there. If you own land, the taxes are really expensive. If you don't own land, it's virtually impossible to buy it. The cost of living is really high. And so. And so in some ways, I think that's like a microcosm of sort of this bigger picture of American colonialism and land grabbing that's happened across the country, but on Martha's Vineyard, it's just happened in this really specific and unique place that people have these specific associations with. And so I think talking about the tribe is kind of a way of exposing that, but also complicating it and.

[Emma Vigeland]

Also reflected in kind of your childhood experience of splitting, being off island and then on island, and that difference being really just a. A reflection of what you're talking about. Indigenous folks being priced out because of land purchases. And I mean, gentrification, it's a term that's used in the modern context, but that's basically. It's actually. It's colonialism, but in the modern. It's like this very soft. It's a softer edge to describe it, but that's. It's an. It's an extension of that history.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I mean, I think we tend to think of colonialism as something that kind of ended. I think in recent years, there's been maybe, like, a growing acknowledgment that it happened at all, which I think is progress. But I think even with that, there's kind of like this. Well, something really bad happened a couple hundred years ago. Some people did some bad things, and, you know, it was unfortunate. But what you see through all these different places and sort of machines at work, whether it's gentrification or colonialism more broadly, or other forms of land grabbing or oppression, you know, I think it becomes really clear that colonialism never ended. I think the form or the means just changed and evolved. And so I think that, yeah, that's what we're seeing on Martha's Vineyard, whether it's through tourism, home prices, in some cases conservation, and other means.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, your tribe had been on this land for, what was it, something like 10,000 years? And now in the modern day, the thing that kind of sustains this extremely unaffordable island, or what kind of remains of the community there, is, as you say, tourism. You can you speak a little bit about tourism and also capitalism and the extractive ways that those work together, especially when this is a community that can't even really afford to live, in many ways, is being pushed out of the land that was theirs.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I mean, I guess to talk a little bit generally about the way that capitalism has impacted Indigenous people, and specifically my tribe, the primary way that that's happened is land. And there was a US Government policy known as land allotment, where basically collective indigenous owned and managed land was taken out of collective ownership and put into individual ownership. So individual tribal members were told, okay, now you have 2 acres here or 10 acres or whatever it was different land block sizes. And then a lot of people, essentially after that in my tribe and many others across the country were forced to sell their land because suddenly, you know, you're not sharing land with the community and managing it together. You have this one piece of land that's yours, and you have to pay taxes on it, and you have to pay for all these other things in your life that have now come up. So that's one of the ways that colonialism, and US Colonialism in particular, took land from my tribe and many others. It's something like millions of acres across the country were taken this way. And then today on Martha's Vineyard, when we're talking about tourism. Yeah, tourism is the biggest industry on the island. My family, which I write about in the book, owns a seasonal gift shop that my grandparents started in the 70s, kind of around the time that Martha's Vineyard was becoming the island that we know it as today. And, yeah, tourism is a really kind of. It's an interesting thing because the tribe, or many people in the tribe in some ways, are forced to rely on it to make a living. But it's not really a great choice, or if it is a choice at all. It's this industry that's essentially bringing these people to our shores every summer who make it more and more difficult to live there, more and more difficult to afford life on our homelands. But on the other hand, it is the sort of best way we have of making a living right now. And in the book, I talk a little bit about other tribes and other indigenous people across the country and around the world are sort of in similar predicaments. So a lot of us have been put in this rock and a hard place situation.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, obviously, Palestine cannot escape our minds at this moment, but when we're talking about colonialism never ending, we see an extremely brutal example of it there. And even in the west bank, it reminds me of. You write about treaties signed by indigenous communities and the colonizers or hint at it. I guess the myth of, like thanksgiving that you talk about flattens the power dynamics to such a degree that it's, like, so imperceptible. But it's important to note that these collaborations between indigenous communities and colonizers were exploitative, extractive, deceptive. And, you know, obviously your tribe didn't escape this, but this was in a tactic used throughout, almost like the veneer of legality of some Sort of contract that gives white people everything and in the indigenous communities, very little.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I think that's one of the evolutions of colonialism that we've seen. You know, maybe a few hundred years ago, they didn't need to have a piece of paper to do it, or they. They didn't care. They would just kill some people. And, hey, this is our land now. And then times change and they say, okay, we need maybe a couple lines on a piece of paper. And then times change a little bit more and they say, okay, we need to pass some laws. And so, like federal allotment laws that I mentioned, that's an example of that. There are federal termination laws where tribes were essentially told, you're not a tribe anymore. And yeah, and you bring up Palestine. And I think it's no coincidence that a lot of the sort of people involved there are really, really excited about possible tourism properties. Right. Or these, like, fancy hotels that people want to build on the sea and that sort of thing. So I think, yeah, it's the same story around the world. And I think it's really important to be able to track that lineage rather than see these things as separate both in terms of time and place. Right. The machine as we're talking about has kind of evolved. It's popping up in different places, but in many ways it's the exact same thing.

[Emma Vigeland]

Can you speak a bit about some of the ways in say, modern day or recent history that indigenous communities and tribes have tried to create alternative economies that can benefit them? Like, I mean, gambling is the trope, and I know there was a discussion, there was a vote on this within your tribe as well. But the origins of that and why it's so necessary to form some of these networks of, you know, economic opportunity given the circumstances you lay out.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I mean, I think we talked a little bit about sort of capitalistic systems, and I think the reality for most tribes right now is we live in this country and we live within these systems, and money is the thing that has power right now. And so for tribes that are trying to get casinos or have casinos or running successful casinos, I think that that's sort of a means of doing that. Right. That's one of the means available to tribes is. Is using casinos as a way of making money. And you'll see tribes do different things. Sometimes tribes are sending out money individually to tribal members. Economic stimulus, essentially. Tribes will also use casino money to fund government programs, to fund scholarships, to build new buildings, build housing, all these things. So, yeah, I think, you know, it's, it's not a perfect response, but in the same way that tribes like mine who are having to deal with tourism economies are trying to figure out, like, well, how can we make this work for us? I think casinos are one example of that. But I think there's, you kind of mentioned this, that like, it's sort of like that's the thing that gets all the attention.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. But it's also, I mean, both of those instances, tourism or gambling, it's not really about owning, say like the means of production. This is all still dependent on the patronage of folks coming either to casino or to the island or to the area. And it's not a method of wealth reproduction. It's basically been completely stripped from many minority groups in this country. But indigenous and native tribes feels quite acute.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I think in recent years you've seen a really growing food sovereignty movement, which I would say is kind of in response to a lot of these things you're talking about, like our land has been taken, our ways of life have been taken, our culture has been taken, our opportunities to succeed and thrive as a people have been taken. And so food sovereignty of, like, we're going to grow our own food, we're going to use it to support our community. Whether that's just sharing the food, selling the food, whatever it is. That's an example that you see across the country. And I think that's also why a lot of the fights happening now over, for example, dams and rivers or lakes are really important because that's tribes trying to not sort of just like participate in the economy. That's tribes trying to retake everything, retake the land, retake culture, retake their way of life. And I think that's why you're seeing such massive legal fights over like energy extraction and these things, because that's a real challenge to the system rather than like, you know, a small business or something like that.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, this is going to be a fight over the next three and a half years with the administration trying to drill more and more on federally protected lands, which sometimes coincide with indigenous lands. And even down in Florida, the most substantial legal obstacle that has been placed in front of the Trump administration at this moment has been the successful challenging of the construction of the so called alligator Alcatraz on lands that are, should be protected for indigenous communities. And the judge down in Miami last week sided with indigenous rights activists on this front. And you just, like in that example there, you can see how the struggles are so interconnected even in just that one example.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, And I think it's maybe a belated lesson, but I think a lot of people with this and the previous Trump administration are learning tribes can play a really powerful role here because of their position, because of their land, because of their legal rights and privileges that are sort of, in many ways, an accidental quirk of a colonial system. But it's something that tribes have right now. And so I think people are starting to pay a lot more attention to tribes than they did in the past. And, yeah, the example with the Miccosukee tribe in Florida that you just gave is a really, really great example of that, where I think a lot of people may have ignored tribes before suddenly like, oh, we gotta work with these people. And Federal Lands is a great example where tribes have been trying to protect their land and resources and water forever. And I think it's only more so in recent years that environmental groups, liberal groups, whoever it is, have sort of caught on to the fact that tribes can and should be leading the way on some of these issues.

[Emma Vigeland]

Now we're kind of in the modern context of today and just thinking about things like how we can find solidarity in our community, how we can make connections and create networks to combat the fascist administration. It occurs to me, of course, that, like, there might be some sort of renewed purpose. Not that there needs any renewal, but there are new perspective on perhaps tribal communities in this time, especially as we're so, like, you know, alienated and atomized from one another. How does your tribal community fit into today's world for you?

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I mean, just on the first part of your question there, I think one of the things I think about and talk about in the book is, like, none of this is new for tribes. I think the way that, you know, some Americans are feeling like, oh, this is new, and, you know, in many ways, the specifics are new, but the thing is the same. The challenges are the same. And so I think for a lot of tribes, it's like, it hasn't mattered so much who's in power or what's going on, but the fight is the exact same fight. And so, you know, what it looks like for my tribe right now is it's a challenge. And I think it's also important to talk about internal conflicts and disagreements within tribes. We're all trying to figure out, what do we do now? Where do we go from here?

[Emma Vigeland]

What.

[Joseph Lee]

What's the right move? And you mentioned a few disagreements that my tribe has had. We have fierce tribal elections. We have fierce debates and tribal meetings, and those are all things that we're trying to figure out. As we are also dispersed people, most of us no longer live on our homelands on Martha's Vineyard. So the challenge, I think, is trying to find ways to connect and build community, even when maybe some of those more traditional ways we used to have have been changed. And I think that's something that everybody can probably relate to and try to work on right now. It's some of the same systems that we maybe used to rely on, we can't rely on anymore. And so we have to find new ways of building systems and community to go forward.

[Emma Vigeland]

The disbursement in and of itself is a way to undercut that. Right. We do have some means to connect now technologically that we didn't have previously. But just in thinking about these colonial structures, disbursement is quite beneficial for colonizers because you don't have a network that's going to be more united in opposition. And that's clearly what has been inflicted upon the tribes in this country.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I think, yeah, it's totally not an accident at all that tribes have been dispersed and that my tribe has been in many ways forced off of our land and forced to live in other places. I think what I read a little bit about in the book and what I'm trying to think of now is, like, ways that we can use that as a strength and ways that we can try to take advantage of the situation we're in. And like you mentioned, obviously, technological tools. I write in the book about taking Wampanoag language class on zoom for the first time. We have virtual meetings. We have mail and voting. These are all things that we didn't have before. And I think those are positive things that allow us to bring our community together in a way that we couldn't before. And for me, as a writer and journalist, I think I've learned a lot from traveling around the country and talking to other indigenous tribes. And when I talk to people, as much as I want to learn from them, they're always kind of like, can you tell me stuff from your reporting you've learned from other tribes? And then when I go home, people ask me, what are you hearing from other tribes? And so I think hopefully that's something that we can do. And you're kind of getting at this, like, building solidarity and building community and finding those way through those ways through. And I think that's where we have to go.

[Emma Vigeland]

Lastly, you mentioned your reporting. I know you've done some work at grist for climate change. Reporting, how does the struggle for kind of, you know, more indigenous representation rights, just reparations, how does that fit into the climate fight right now? I mean, Donald Trump is obviously maniacal, we're going to cover this later in the show, but he's trying to kill a Rhode island wind farm that is 80% complete, that could give energy for over 300,000 homes, just because, you know, it's time to consolidate around oil or he finds wind farms ugly or something like that. But obviously the fight for our climate is a fight for us all. But I would imagine that your history and your work on indigenous rights gives you an even broader perspective on it.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned this. I mean, I think climate and conservation work is one area where historically, even among, you know, more left leaning people and groups, indigenous people have been left out. And I think, you know, today, you see, it's like, well, we know what to do with the land. Right. We know how to make decisions. And so you'll see my tribe, for example, many people in the tribe are not in favor of these wind farms. And I read a little bit about Sami communities in Europe who are also against wind farms. And I think that's nothing to do with being against green energy or these other things, but it has to do with being told what to do with land and acting like indigenous people don't have any ownership or knowledge. I think that's where we need to go in climate change and conservation is actually work with and listen to indigenous people. And I think these moments are making it even more and more clear. Like it can't be, you know, everybody, you know, in a different silo and a different side. It needs to be all of us fighting to protect the environment against, you know, the administration and anyone else who's trying to harm it. And so I think that's like the lesson that I take out of that.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, it sort of reminds me of like, you know, the early suffragette movement being extremely white or wealthy and. And the conservation movement too, even historical societies and things like that, where these are a lot of wealthy people doing this to do good in their very narrow vision of what that is. And that excludes often the communities most affected by it. So even like our framework for social justice on certain topics were pushed forward by wealthier white people. And so these systems replicate themselves to this day.

[Joseph Lee]

Yeah, and the model is kind of like donate a bunch of money to a nonprofit owned, as you say, by rich white people, and then the environment will be okay. But obviously that has not worked so it's clear, like we need to try something different. And in many cases, it's the thing that indigenous people have been trying to do and in some cases, legally prevented from doing for generations. That is the thing that will actually work.

[Emma Vigeland]

Joseph Lee, the book is called Nothing More of this. Sorry, Nothing More of this. Community Power and the Search for Indigenous Identity. We will put a link to your book wherever people are listening to or watching this. Thanks so much for your time today, Joseph. Really appreciate it.

[Joseph Lee]

Thank you.

[Emma Vigeland]

All right, folks, with that, we will wrap up the first hour of this program and head into the fun half. We will take your calls, read your IMs. We have some, like, actually, you know, juicy stories in the fun half today that we didn't really get to here, including, you know, Trump purchasing a stake in Intel. You have some centrists calling it socialism. Why it's not. That wind farm story is insane. I want to get to, obviously, Israel striking Nasser Hospital. Not as fun, but something we're going to be covering, too. Check us out in the fun half, folks. But Matt, what's happening on Left Reckoning?

[Matt]

Yeah, Left Reckoning. We got into a clip that might play in the fun half here of the real reason why Omar Fatteh's endorsement at the convention was rescinded. And it turns out the process was a fig leaf for the real reason donors. Donors didn't want checks to cash anymore. Yeah, explicitly. That's barely a paraphrase. Patreon.com left reckoningax us to the Sunday show.

[Emma Vigeland]

All right, guys, we will see you in the fun half. But first, just a reminder, this show relies on your support. Jointhemajorityreport.com Please, if you can. It helps support our work. Now I am into the show. We'll read your IMs in the fun half. The select few that are members and are able to IM the show Sunset Lake Saved. Are you guys going to discuss Jillian Michaels whitewashing of slavery? That was an old story. But that woman is insane. I watched that. So. So she's suing over this Netflix documentary about the Biggest Loser or threatening to. And I saw this headline. I was like, huh, There must be some bad stuff in here. So I started watching it. It's so boring. But she's just a horrible person. But we already knew that.

[Matt]

Is she like a Dr. Drew of fitness?

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, she's just like abusive to the contestants. And I guess there's a point where she gives them like caffeine pills.

[Matt]

Yeah, the caffeine stuff has always been the hairy thing. I've seen with her is like. And I've heard she's very litigious about that, so.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, okay. Well, this is what the documentary claims. Not myself. I just want to put that out there. I mean. Yeah, I guess. Like, I wasn't. But it is like a kook. And I mean, why is she a political commentary? Well, that's what person now. Who cares?

[Matt]

I tweeted. Tweeted out when that happened. Like, who books the show, which Brian informed me is a comedian thing to say about when clips go viral or something like that. But then Sam ended up on the show. So I don't know if, like, maybe because a lot of people retweeted me wondering, like, why are we asking this fitness quack about slavery or having her even in the room? Like, what is her credential? Besides, she's a valuetainment property.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, I saw that she. That Abby Phillip did like a correction show after that, kind of slamming her, which is just like that. We. We had that on the sound sheet. We didn't end up covering. We have so much other crap.

[Matt]

Yeah, it's.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's. It's.

[Matt]

It's. It's trash.

[Emma Vigeland]

She got what she wanted. She got in the headlines and. And she said something inflammatory and deeply racist. And then, like, their only black primetime host had to correct it. Who they stick the Scott Jennings guy on. That's what I'm saying.

[Matt]

Show has a problem with booking.

[Emma Vigeland]

I don't like how over there. Yeah, it seems a little messed up that they kind of seem to put all of that crap on Abby Phillips plate. But what do I. Well, she's good. Good for her. She's holds her own. But they like. I don't. I. It feels racist to me in ways that, like, maybe I'm overthinking it, but I don't know, like, they don't sit on Caitlin Collins or who's their other host, Cooper. They give it. They. They give all of that garbage, gutter trash to their black female hosts. And it feels wrong, but that's just me.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean, I just think whoever is booking Sam should be listened to more than the people who keep swanning. What Scott was the Scott Peters or whatever his name is. That Zionist guy?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Matt]

What are you doing?

[Emma Vigeland]

Scott Jennings.

[Matt]

Scott Jennings, yeah. And then. And Jillian Michaels. Are you joking?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Like, you have millions of dollars. You have millions of people watching this to try to get informed.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Matt]

And you have Jillian fucking Michaels on to talk about slavery or talk about anything. Like, what is she qualified to talk About? Besides suing people over some drama about caffeine pills?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, just, you know, verbally abusing overweight people.

[Matt]

Like, it's.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's like we're struggling and trying.

[Matt]

I know it's hack in a way that even, like, I think Sam doesn't know it's hack yet. But to compare things to idiocracy. But when you have Jillian Michaels on to talk about anything of importance, what are we doing with our lives, folks? You're wasting people's lives on a industrial scale. Cnn.

[Emma Vigeland]

Anyway, see you guys in the fun half.

[Joseph Lee]

Okay, Emma, please.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the Majority report.

[Brian]

Wait, look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a vacation at Disney World, so. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show.

[Emma Vigeland]

It is Thursday.

[Matt]

I feel like, you know, this improvement for Sam.

[Joseph Lee]

Yes, please. No, no, no.

[Brian]

I'm.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'm.

[Brian]

I'm going to pause you right there.

[Tom Holman]

Wait, what?

[Brian]

You can't encourage Emma to live like this, and I'll tell you why. So, was offered a tour, sushi and poker with the boys. Tour sushi and poker with boys. Who was offered a tour? Yeah, sushi and poker with the boys.

[Emma Vigeland]

What?

[Brian]

Tour sushi and poker.

[Emma Vigeland]

Tim's upset.

[Brian]

Twerk sushi. An Olga boys. It was offered with twerk sushi. And that's what we call biz. Twerk, sushi and poker. Or turtle boys.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Brian]

Twerk sushi and we're gonna get demonetized. I just think that what you did to Tim pool was mean.

[Emma Vigeland]

Free speech.

[Brian]

That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about him. I think you're responsible.

[Emma Vigeland]

I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown down here.

[Brian]

Sushi and poker with the boys. Oh, my God.

[Joseph Lee]

Wow.

[Brian]

Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered a bit. Tour sushi and poker with boys. Sushi and poker with boys. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Had this debate 7,000 times. A little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a dude losing my mind. So I'm not trying to be a dip right now, but, like, I absolutely think the US should be providing me with a wife and the kids.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's not what we're talking about here.

[Brian]

It's not a fun job. Twerk. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. Willy Wonka. Twerk. That's a real thing. That's real thing. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. That's twerk. A real thing. That's real thing. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. That's a real thing. That's poker. Oh, I think he might be blowing.

[Joseph Lee]

It out of proportion.

[Brian]

Real thing that's offered to twerk. That's a real thing. That's. Let's go, Joey. Twerk, sushi and poker with the boy.

[Joseph Lee]

Take it easy.

[Brian]

Twerk, sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker. Boys. Sushi. You don't have a clue as to what's going on live. YouTube.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sam has split the way of the.

[Tom Holman]

World on his shoulders.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore.

[Brian]

Anymore.

[Emma Vigeland]

It was so much easier when the majority report was just you.

[Brian]

Let's change the subject. Rangers and Knicks are doing great now.

[Emma Vigeland]

Shut up. Don't want people saying reckless things on your program.

[Brian]

That's one of the most difficult parts.

[Joseph Lee]

Parts about this show.

[Emma Vigeland]

This is a pro killing podcast.

[Brian]

I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury the hatchet.

[Emma Vigeland]

Left his best Violet twerk.

[Brian]

Don't be foolish and don't tweet at me. And don't the way Emma has all of these people love it.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's where my heart is. So I wrote my honors thesis about it.

[Joseph Lee]

I guess I should hear the main.

[Brian]

Mic to you now. You are to the right of the non foreign policy.

[Emma Vigeland]

We already fund Israel. Dude. Are you against us?

[Brian]

That's a tougher question I have an answer to. Incredible theme song.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hi bumbler.

[Tom Holman]

Emma Vilan.

[Joseph Lee]

Absolutely one of my favorite people actually. Not just in the game like period.