3569 - America Tips Into Fascism; Canada's Largest Union Flexes w/ Garrett Graff & Mark Hancock

Summary

The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3569 – America Tips Into Fascism; Canada’s Largest Union Flexes
Date: August 27, 2025
Host: Emma Vigeland (in for Sam Seder)
Guests: Garrett Graff, Mark Hancock

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a two-pronged approach: First, it examines America’s slide into authoritarianism through a discussion with historian and journalist Garrett Graff. Second, it highlights recent labor activism in Canada, focusing on the Air Canada flight attendants' strike with union leader Mark Hancock. The hosts also provide continued critical coverage of the situation in Gaza, union politics, and developments in American democracy under Trump’s second term. The show maintains its signature mix of irreverent, incisive political analysis and direct language.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Americans Are Living in an Authoritarian Moment (w/ Garrett Graff)

(Interview begins at 26:41)

• America’s Authoritarian Tipping Point

  • Graff explains the premise of his recent piece, “America Tips Into Fascism,” arguing that the U.S. has entered an unmistakable authoritarian period:

    “A lot of people... have thought about this as if there was going to be, like, a light switch that turns on and off. ...That’s of course not really the way that it happens. ...What I think we have watched over this last month... is this moment where we have just sort of tipped over the edge into a new era where our country is fundamentally different.” (27:23)

  • He points to recent events such as the D.C. police takeover and military deployment as marking the shift.

• Corporate Acquiescence to Trump

  • Emma and Graff discuss prominent corporations and billionaires aligning with Trump for self-preservation and profit, likening this to the dynamics of Russia under Putin.
  • Examples: Bill Gates visiting the White House, Gates Foundation cutting off Democratic consultants, Intel converting grants, Apple/TIm Cook “bringing literal gold” to curry favor (30:14–32:26).

• Cultural and Institutional Capture

  • Trump’s control extends beyond the military to the economy (direct intervention), the Smithsonian, Kennedy Center, arts, books, and even sports (attempting to dictate Baseball Hall of Fame inductions, NFL stadium deals, team names).

  • Emma: “He puts the ‘total’ in totalitarian and is constantly omnipresent... you include some excerpts from the Declaration of Independence to make your point in your piece.” (32:26)

• Declaration of Independence Parallels

  • Graff highlights eerie echoes between Trump’s actions and grievances listed against the British Crown in 1776 (33:53).

• Democratic Leadership’s Failure

  • Graff faults national Democrats for relative silence in the face of an armed military occupying Washington, DC, noting local leaders like Gavin Newsom, but critiquing “the creaking gerontocracy" and a failure from Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer (35:04).

• Comparisons to Watergate

  • On historical resilience:

    “We’re in a much worse situation than we ever were in Watergate.... at that time, Republicans in Congress understood that their first duty was to the Constitution.” (37:36)

  • He asserts Congress and the Court are now complicit in Trump’s abuses, with the Supreme Court having “written Trump effectively a blank check” for criminal immunity.

Notable Quote:

“He is speedrunning the abuses of power that we have previously literally had a revolution to fight back against. ...This is sort of stuff that he is doing on an almost weekly basis at this point.”
— Garrett Graff (33:53)

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2. Labor Power and State Repression: Air Canada Strike (w/ Mark Hancock)

(Interview begins at 40:48)

• Background: Mark Hancock is the national president of the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE), representing over 10,000 Air Canada flight attendants.

• Standing Up to Government Intervention

  • Hancock explains his refusal to comply with a government back-to-work order:

    “It was a line in the sand. We’re the biggest union in the country. We felt that we needed to take that stand, and we did that.” (41:43)

  • He describes Canadian Liberals’ increasing use of a labor code section (Section 107) to curb strikes—used six times in two years after being largely dormant.

• Strike Details and Leverage

  • After a strike vote with 97% approval, Air Canada was losing $60 million a day due to the work stoppage.

  • The government’s intervention attempted to force arbitration, but Hancock threatened to defy the order and face jail rather than settle for less at arbitration.

  • Result:

    “Once we made it clear that we were not going back to work without an agreement, that's when the company got serious... and we were able to get an agreement in… about seven hours.” (43:36)

• Key Issues: Wages, Ground Duty, and Working Conditions

  • Flight attendants were not being paid for time spent on the ground, even when performing duties during delays.
  • Wage stagnation after a decade-long contract and cuts during company hardship led to striking; new attendants sometimes earned less than $2,000/month.

• Risks and Wins

  • Hancock notes they faced threats of contempt of court, fines, and jail time.
  • Their activism has triggered a government investigation into unpaid work for flight attendants.
  • Despite potential risks, Hancock and his members were determined to maintain their line:

    “If I needed to go to jail … we weren’t backing down.” (48:30)

• Broader Union Priorities

  • Hancock speaks out against companies like Air Canada using pandemic bailouts for executive bonuses.
  • He champions “ending free work” and encourages governments to stay out of labor disputes:

    “Deals are found at bargaining tables, and when governments intervene time and time again, workers pay the price.” (57:39)

• On International Solidarity & Palestine

  • Hancock makes a moral case for CUPE’s strong advocacy for Palestinians, highlighting the union’s global perspective and alignment with fellow workers abroad:

    “Workers have been killed on the ground in Gaza, workers that we would represent here in Canada... It’s our moral obligation to speak out on that.” (55:42)

Notable Quote:

“If I needed to go to jail… that we were going to support those flight attendants until they got a deal at a bargaining table.”
— Mark Hancock (48:30)

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3. Gaza Crisis and American/Israeli Policy

(Segment begins at 4:25; detailed at ~6:30–21:48)

• Humanitarian Catastrophe and Genocide

  • Emma offers a somber update on Gaza (“absolute apocalypse, a holocaust”). She cites Ofer Kassif, a lone Israeli politician of the Hadash Party, who has called the situation “a holocaust” and accuses Israel of genocide, weaponized starvation, and fascism within Israel as well.

  • Kassif quote (as reported by Emma):

    “A holocaust is taking place in Gaza right now, led by the government and with approval from the generals. Refuse to participate in this genocide. We must rise up against this government not with violence, but a peaceful uprising...” (~7:45)

• Lack of Israeli Public Opposition

  • The panel notes limited antiwar protests are focused largely on hostage return, not ending the war/genocide. They cite polling: 64% of Israelis agreed “there are no innocent people in Gaza” (~12:36).

• Violence Against Palestinians, Settler Emboldenment

  • The show details a spate of violence and legal impunity for Israeli settlers attacking Palestinians, including the immediate release of a settler responsible for the death of a Palestinian filmmaker.

• US Hypocrisy, Historical Reference

  • Matt recalls the Obama administration’s killing of an American teenager (Anwar al-Awlaki’s son) and official justifications, drawing a throughline from Obama-era drone wars to current US acquiescence in Israeli actions (~20:44).

• Calls For International Pressure

  • Both Emma and Matt advocate for Western governments to withhold aid and impose sanctions on Israel, arguing only external force can alter Israeli policy and public opinion.

Notable Quote:

“There is no war in Gaza, There is a holocaust in Gaza. Israel is facilitating a holocaust. Gaza extermination, concentration camps, weaponized starvation, genocide...”
— Ofer Kassif, read by Emma Vigeland (~7:45)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the “Tipping Point” of American democracy

  “We have just sort of tipped over the edge into a new era where our country is fundamentally different.”
  – Garrett Graff (27:23)

• On the normalization of executive overreach

  “He is speedrunning the abuses of power that we have previously literally had a revolution to fight back against.” – Garrett Graff (33:53)

• On labor solidarity & the strike threat

  “Once we made it clear that we were not going back to work without an agreement, that's when the company got serious... and we were able to get an agreement in… about seven hours.”
  – Mark Hancock (43:36)

• On risk for union leaders

  “If I needed to go to jail… that we were going to support those flight attendants until they got a deal at a bargaining table.”
  – Mark Hancock (48:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Gaza segment & Israeli politics: 06:30–21:48
• Garrett Graff interview (America & authoritarianism): 26:41–39:13
• Mark Hancock interview (Air Canada, labor, and activism): 40:48–59:10
• Notable labor solidarity and Palestine discussion: ~54:56–57:39

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Tone and Style

The show is direct, unsparing, and passionate, blending in-depth political analysis with dark humor and moral urgency. Emma Vigeland and her co-hosts do not shy from using powerful language (e.g., “genocide,” “fascism,” “apocalypse”) and push for clarity and action against state abuses, both in North America and abroad. Guests are pressed for clear historical parallels, lessons, and actionable insight.

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Conclusion

This episode is a compelling, unfiltered look at the decline of democratic institutions in the United States, the complicity of economic and political elites, the power and necessity of labor militancy, and the need for global solidarity against both authoritarianism and state violence—be it in DC, Canada, or Gaza.

Transcript

[Emma Vigland]

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[Brian]

I'm on one right now.

[Emma Vigland]

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[Brian]

The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.

[Emma Vigland]

It is Wednesday, August 27, 2025. My name is Emma Vigland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Garrett Graff will be with us to talk about what tipped the United States into fascism. And later in the show, Mark Hancock, national president of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, joins us to talk about reaching a tentative agreement with Air Canada. Also on the program, Fed Governor Lisa Cook will file a lawsuit challenging her firing as questions emerge as to how Trump was able to access her private mortgage information. When asked about sending the National Guard to Chicago over local leaders objections, Trump says he, quote, has the right to do anything I want. That should be a game toddler or president pick. The national guardsmen deployed to D.C. are now picking up trash outside the White House. Trump also says Republicans are working on a new crime bill. Remember when he was hitting Hillary Clinton on her super press predators? Comments? A whistleblower reveals that more than 300 million Americans may have had their Social Security data uploaded to an insecure cloud service by Doge all to give Grok all the info it needs.

[Brian]

Grock, what's my Social Security number?

[Emma Vigland]

Or maybe it's not for Grok, it. Maybe it's for his future ex payments plan turning Twitter into a bank.

[Matt]

Remember Doge?

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah. FEMA suspends dozens of employees who signed a letter criticizing Trump gutting their agency. ICE is targeting delivery delivery drivers for apps like uber eats and DoorDash. And corporations keep their lips sealed. US deportation flights have hit record highs in Iowa. Democrats flip a key state Senate seat, a district Trump won by over 10 points to break the Republican supermajority. Joni Ernst up in 2026. Gotta be a little nervous. You know, Ann Selzer was right. She was just right too early. Inside baseball. Ten Palestinians starved to death over the past 24 hours, including two children. And lastly, a Reuters journalist resigns, citing the outlet's, quote, betrayal of her colleagues in Gaza. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show, everybody. We have a great show for you. It is hump day. Hello, Brian. Hello, Matt. Hello, audience. We'll start on a bit of a somber note, but we have to continuously give these updates here because the situation in Gaza continues to be an absolute apocalypse, a holocaust. Don't take my word for it. This is Ofer Kassif, who's an Israeli politician, one of the only ones, one of the lone voices really speaking about what's happening in Gaza.

[Matt]

He's a member of the Hadash Party. We've had him on the show, actually, which is the far left party in Israel.

[Emma Vigland]

This is him speaking plainly and saying this publicly, which as we discussed with him when he was on the show, he puts A target on his back like this, within a deeply fascistic society to be one of the few people in power saying this kind of thing. But it's important that he is, especially because in Gaza over the past 24 hours, at least 10 Palestinians have died from starvation, including two children. And Gaza City in the north is being there. They've been just bombing rubble at this point. They've destroyed every part of like sustainable life in Gaza by design. The only way that folks are able to eat is if food comes across. And we know that Israel is blocking an overwhelming majority of the food so Palestinians can't grow their own food. Everything's dust and rubble and destroyed and they are being starved to death by Israel controlling the entire border of the Gaza Strip essentially and not allowing aid in. I mean, Egypt's complicit too. But here is Ofer Kassif, speaking plainly that this is a holocaust, can no longer use sugar coated terms. There is no war in Gaza, There is a holocaust in Gaza. Israel is facilitating a holocaust. Gaza extermination, concentration camps, weaponized starvation, genocide according to the most basic and accepted definition of the word. Anyone who doesn't raise his voice and oppose with all his strength, the Israeli government and the IDF is complicit in this crime. A holocaust is taking place in Gaza right now, led by the government and with approval from the generals. Refuse to participate in this genocide. We must rise up against this government not with violence, but a peaceful uprising, with strikes, protests, blocking roads, with every possible democratic avenue. This government is exterminating a people and facilitating fascism, creating a fascist regime, regime also within Israel. Those that refuse to oppose this government will not only be complicit in its criminal actions, but also its next target. And there have been, thankfully, protests on the streets of Tel Aviv. I don't want to overstate these though, because when you look at public opinion within Israel, that is not what you're going to see in an urban center like Tel Aviv. And largely the protests are centered around the hostages, where, okay, many of the protesters say we need a ceasefire so that we can get the hostages back and then return to the genocide. That's a common liberal opinion within Israel.

[Matt]

Members of Hadash regularly are attacked, targeted for attack. And you know, he's working within the system, you know, a system that's gone horribly, horribly wrong. And Ofer is an extremely brave voice within it and I'm really proud that we had him on the show. The truth is that we're into the point like America's were in Vietnam, where This is wrong. It's an atrocity that we're committing every single day for years. And the point needs to be even more direct types of sabotage, frankly, whether it's like gumming up the works to like from within. I mean, these are extreme acts of bravery that you can't really like, no one's going to hear a podcast and be moved to, but it's going to take things like sabotaging the equipment or, you know, going at generals or something like that. Like fragging, for instance. Like this is, this is where we are with the IDF and Israeli society and the settlers are their own thing too, even more aggressive.

[Emma Vigland]

And I want to show footage of that in just a sec second. But just to underscore Matt's point and not to overstate the significance of these protests in Israel, but also to encourage them and to say that yes, more, more direct action is taken. And really this is the responsibility of Western governments to cut off aid and sanction Israel. And I mean, in my ideal world, the United States military would go into Gaza and get the. And make sure that the Palestinians were safe from the IDF and fight them if they need be. Obviously that is not gonna happen.

[Matt]

I mean, that's what needs to happen.

[Emma Vigland]

But Western governments, because under Donald Trump, that's not what I mean.

[Matt]

Would not happen. Yeah, I mean, I mean there just needs to be a. And what all just needs to happen is stop backing up Israel and stop letting it have such an overwhelming force against everybody else who wants to do something about it.

[Mark Hancock]

Right.

[Matt]

If we weren't constantly rearming Iron Dome, they would have to be more disciplined. They're not, because. And look what happened with Iran. They get hit in one hard, hard way and now all of a sudden they're ready to meet a ceasefire. They only respond to force. There's a book called this Nick Thrall that like that's the only language you understand.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, they don't want to advertise how actually devastating the. There's been a real cover up of the impact of those Iranian strikes because Israel is obsessed with its deterrence capacity. And this shows that they actually are vulnerable in many ways.

[Matt]

And it's good to know that. And that vulnerability, we shouldn't be trying to protect them from it. Exactly, because that's why you've seen tens and tens and tens to hundreds of thousands of people be slaughtered in a holocaust.

[Emma Vigland]

And back just briefly to the protests on public sentiment there. I mean, I have this article saved on my desktop just to continuously refer to it, because back in June there was a survey of Israelis and this is, you know, I'm not, this is overall Israelis here. But the 64% believe that Israel's local media is reporting on Gaza, has been balanced and there's no need to present a broader picture regarding the situation of Gaza's civilians. Another question in the poll said if was asking Israelis to what extent respondents agree with the statement that quote, there are no innocent people in Gaza. 64% agreed with it to a large extent. Meaning that's a unequivocal sometimes you'll have somewhat agree in polls. This is completely agree when it comes to Israelis views on foreign media outlets. CNN and the BBC, they ask about 69% of respondents said that CNN and the BBC are biased in favor of the Palestinians in Gaza. So we have a society that needs to be pressured and forced to change and stand down from the outside because over in the west bank the crisis is escalating also at a rapid pace. We've spoken at length about this new green lighting of the E1 settlement plan which segments and puts a settlement in between occupied East Jerusalem which Israel has been illegally occupying and its Palestinian land since 1967 and a newer settlement that has cropped up and makes it so that it's very difficult to connect the west bank that still has Palestinians in it, although they're changing that as well to East Jerusalem because there's a bunch of settlers in between. And as that project goes forward, the Israeli government is handing out handguns to settlers and encouraging them to do violence. The man that shot and killed one of the Palestinians who worked on the Oscar winning documentary no Other Land was released immediately by an Israeli judge.

[Matt]

We our Congress takes votes and one of the votes recently was like for specifically assault rifles. And that's where this stuff is going to ultimately.

[Emma Vigland]

Here is a video of a Israeli settler in the west bank and a Palestinian woman and she basically stands her ground as these settlers raid her land.

[Brian]

I saw a subtitled version of this where she said I'm not afraid right before she spit in his face.

[Emma Vigland]

Good for her. I mean, these are teenage kids. It looks like the level of intensity in their eyes, you know, you're looking into the dark, the darkest, the darkest corners of humanity. I see some of these interviews with IDF people and there's nothing so cut off from one's humanity that you can justify this kind of thing. And the bipartisan nature of this is really important to underscore. We'll get into this more in the second half of the show, but I just wanted to read this one excerpt, if we could pull it up from Isaac Chotiner of the New Yorker, who does these incredible interviews that I don't know why anyone agrees to, because he gets the better of them every single time.

[Matt]

Hey, you know who came out well.

[Emma Vigland]

In it is Baskar Sankara, the one, the lone survivor. So this one excerpt is really making the rounds. The part about children. Chotiner interviewed Jack Lew, Biden's ambassador to Israel, and this. This part was just stunning. When they're talking about the children that were killed, his answer to this question previously here, right. What on. What on earth happened? So when you would call in the middle of the night, basically talk about the Israeli government and ask them what on earth happened, what was usually the answer? The general pattern was that in the moment, stories were inaccurate and that the Israeli military and government establishment were not in a position to fully explain yet we could almost never get answers that explained what happened before the story was fully framed in international media. And then when the facts were fully developed, it turned out that the casualties were much lower, the number of civilians was much lower, and in many cases, the children were children of Hamas fighters, not children taking cover in places. Sorry, what did you just say? In many cases, the original number of casualties. Chotner no, I mean the thing about who the children were, they were often the children of the fighters themselves. And therefore, what follows from that, Lou what follows is that whether or not it was a legitimate military target flows from the population that's there. Hold on, Mr. Secretary. That's not, in fact, correct. Right. Whether it's a legitimate target has to do with all kinds of things like proportionality. It doesn't matter if the kids are the kids of. LOU INTERJECTS if you're in a command and control center, that's different than if a school. If it's a school that's emptied out and innocent civilians are taking shelter there, if you're the commander of a Hamas unit and you bring your family to a military site, that's different. I'm not saying everything fits into that, and I'm not saying it's not a tragedy. It may shine a very poor light on Hamas, but who the kids are does not make a difference in terms of international law. Lou it is not the simple question that it originally appears to be when the initial report makes it sound like the target was just an empty school that families took cover in. In some cases, I'm not aware of the full explanations because when I left, we were still asking questions to get more detail and saying to them that they have to be able to explain these things. And I'm not going to say that none of them fall outside the bonds of things, the bounds of things where there should be disciplinary action against them.

[Mark Hancock]

Blah, blah, blah, blah blah.

[Emma Vigland]

But basically admitting that they're okay with targeting children in what they deem are Hamas command and control centers. The whole area is 141 square miles. And prior to the genocide where despite what Lou says, we know, we know that hundreds of thousands are dead. We haven't been able to count. The numbers we have are just the folks that are either came to the hospital and died. We spoke to Dr. Tarek Labani about this. So they were able to verify their identity or they were able to do so in some other way. But there are hundreds of thousands of people unaccounted for in this very, very small piece of land, presumed dead under rubble. Hundreds of it's major undercounts by factors over and over again. And there's going to be children everywhere because they're being held in an open air concentration camp that you're carpet bombing.

[Matt]

This is. I know we can get to our guest quick. Abdul Rahman. Abdul Rahman. Anwar Al Awlaki, 16 year old born in Denver, Colorado was killed in a drone strike in 2011 that the Obama administration, Obama in particular signed off on. At first the United States government said, well, we didn't know that the 16 year old was there. The 16 year old US citizen again killed in a drone strike. But then Robert Gibbs, White House press secretary said, I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father. His father was Anwar Al Awlaki and I would suggest you have a far more responsible father. If they are truly concerned about the well meaning of their children. I don't think becoming an Al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business. Evidence that the sun was becoming that. But you know the people that were upset about Obama's drone war, this is where we end up, we end up making excuses for a genocide that the Israelis are doing because look, there's kids of terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists.

[Emma Vigland]

In a moment we're going to be speaking to Garrett Graf. But first a word from our sponsors. Hey, this is your reminder. Remember that doctor's appointment, that doctor's appointment you were supposed to make a while ago, the one you meant to book but you got sidetracked and totally blanked and forgot about it. You know the dermatologist appointment for that thing you've been meaning to get checked or your dentist or your checkup. Well, ZocDoc makes it easy to find the right doctor right now and it's all online, so why not book it today? ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. Zocdoc lets you book in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty. You can filter for doctors who are near you, take your insurance and are a good fit for you. You can find the type of care you're looking for, from good bedside manner to fast wait times to doctors with the best listening skills. You can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a visit. Appointments made through Zocdoc also happen fast, typically within 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even get same day appointments. Zocdoc is how I found the first dentist that I actually like. And I'm not like all clammy when I have to go there because no one likes the dentist, but it's helpful when you know they're not the kind that's trying to rip you off. When I moved like from growing up in New Jersey to Brooklyn, that's how I found basically all my doctors and, and it's so easy. The best part about it is that you don't have to play phone tag with the doctor's office. You have a website, there are slots that you can see when they're available and you're able to just book online and look at it like a calendar as opposed to just like leaving voicemails. Do I hear back? It's agonizing, but not with zocdoc. I'd like to thank zocdoc for sponsoring today's episode. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com majority to find an instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Zocdoc.com/Zocdoc.com Majority links below in the video and episode descriptions and at the blog zocdoc.com majority and lastly, going online without ExpressVPN is like driving without car insurance. You might be a great driver, but with all these crazy people on the road these days, why would you take that risk? Thanks to ExpressVPN for sponsoring this episode and for protecting me online. Visit expressvpn.com majority and you can get up to four extra months free every time you connect to an unencrypted network in CAFES, hotels, airports, etc. Your online data is not secure. Any hacker on the same network can gain access to and steal your personal data, passwords, bank logins, credit cards, and more. It doesn't take much technical knowledge to hack someone. You just Some cheap hardware is needed. A smart 12 year old could do it. ExpressVPN stops hackers from stealing your data and creating a secure encrypted tunnel between your device and the Internet. It's super secure. It would take a hacker with a supercomputer over a billion years to get past ExpressVPN's encryption. And it's easy to use. You just fire up the app, click one button to get protected, and it works on all of your devices, phones, laptops, tablets, and more. So you can stay secure on the go. VPNs are essential. You know, when I'm traveling, when I'm in a cafe, as I just mentioned, you just fire it up and it's super easy. Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com Majority that's E X P R E-S-S V P N.com Majority to find out how you can get up to four extra months, free expressvpn.com Majority links below in the YouTube and episode descriptions. All right, quick break, and when we come back, we'll be joined by Garrett Grafton. We are back. And we are joined now by Garrett Graf, historian, Pulitzer Prize finalist, writer of the Doomsday Scenario newsletter, author of many books, including his most recent the Devil Reach towards the Sky. And his latest piece for Doomsday Scenario is entitled America Tips into Fascism. Garrett, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

[Garrett Graff]

My pleasure.

[Emma Vigland]

So I love the title of your piece, America Tips Into Fascism, because the tipping kind of evokes something about the present moment. Like, it's like that feeling when you're on the top of a. You're in like the front car of a roller coaster and you're about to go over the big dip and you're at the front, you're already, already down there, right? And you're just anticipating the big drop. That's like, honestly what it felt like for me when I was reading your piece, trying to pinpoint this current moment. Why do you think we're at the. At the moment here where we're tipping in? Even though I know your piece talks about how we're not gonna be able to pinpoint one moment, this period is the moment.

[Garrett Graff]

Yeah, I think it, you know, we, as you said, we've been anticipating that this is the direction that the country was going to slide under Trump, you know, not just for months, but for years. I mean, this has been a long standing warning about Trump's authoritarian and fascist designs on our country and our government. But I think a lot of people sort of wrongly have thought about this as if there was going to be like a light switch that turns on and off. You know, that sort of everything before this moment is democracy. Everything that comes after this moment is authoritarianism. And that's of course, not the really the way that it happens. And what I think we have watched over this last month, really just over the last two weeks, is this moment where we have just sort of tipped over the edge into a new era where our country is fundamentally different. That does not mean that this is irreversible. That does not mean that we are a full blown authoritarian state. But I think we are now living in an authoritarian country in a way that even just two weeks ago, before the D.C. police takeover and the deployment of the military to D.C. i think we were not yet at that moment. And for me, it's been this accumulation over the course of these, of this month, of these little moments and big moments, the D.C. police takeover, the search of John Bolton's house and others, that made me feel like this week when we wake up in the morning, our country is fundamentally different.

[Emma Vigland]

Another instance where it gives us that indication. And you write about corporate titans lining up to pay tribute to Donald Trump, but Bill Gates was just at the White House, and the New York Times just reported that the Gates foundation has quietly stopped sending tens of millions to, like, major Democratic consulting firms. This is just another example of, like, these industry leaders and these very wealthy people kissing the ring. Even the intel stake thing, kind of converting a grant to an equity purchase without any conditions, except to kind of merge Trump's influence and curry favor with the use of taxpayer funds with a major company like this in order to secure his support. The only thing you can really draw a comparison to is like the crony capitalism of, say, Putin or other capitalistic but authoritarian governments like that.

[Garrett Graff]

Absolutely. And again, I think it's the accumulation of all of these moments and actions over the last couple of months that lead to this conclusion that we are now in a fundamentally undemocratic authoritarian moment in America, because this is not what America has looked like before. And that we see this Donald Trump trying to control the economy personally with, as you said, taking a stake in intel, levying an unconstitutional export tax on Nvidia in exchange for it being able to Sell advanced computer chips to China. These moments where, you know, Tim Cook shows up from Apple in the Oval Office with literal gold to hand to the President, you know, to help curry favor. And then these moments where we see the president really trying to dictate our lives in his one true vision of what Donald Trump believes our country should be like. This is not, you know, authoritarian control is not just about the police and the military in business. It's about our. You know, it's about his war on the Smithsonian and sort of declaring that he alone gets to decide how our history gets taught. It's what books we read in the libraries that he is forcing to be removed. It's his control over our. Our arts in our lives and his takeover of the Kennedy center in D.C. and then even, you know, this weekend, you know, I think we lose track of just, like, how crazy so much of this is. And over the weekend, you know, we have this moment where he's, like, trying to dictate to Major League Baseball that Roger Clemens needs to be inducted immediately into the hall of Fame. So, I mean, this is our control of our arts, our books, our literature, our. Our. Our history, and even our sports.

[Emma Vigland]

He's putting total and totalitarian. He was trying this with Washington because they're trying to move the NFL stadium back to the old RFK site. He's trying to make that conditional on the commanders changing their name back to the racial slur that it was previously. It's. I mean, he puts the total in totalitarian and is constantly omnipresent, like in our lives. You include some excerpts from the Declaration of Independence to make your point in your piece. And it's striking how I'm not one to fetishize the Founding Fathers, but many of the warnings delineated there are exactly to a T. Stuff that we should. We're experiencing right now with Donald Trump, like, I have it printed out here, just some of the things that you list. He has refused his assent to laws the most wholesome and necessary for the public good, for taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of government. He has kept among us in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislatures. He has erected a multitude of new offices and sent hither swarm swarms of officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. So just some of the piece people can read, the whole thing, but just some of the, like, incredibly, you know, eerie comparisons there. It's difficult to escape.

[Garrett Graff]

Yeah. And again, like this, we're only still, you know, six, seven, eight months into this moment. Like, I think, you know, part of what I find fascinating is the extent to which he is speedrunning the abuses of power that we have previously literally had a revolution to fight back against. That this is not years of accumulated grievances by the colonies. This is sort of stuff that he is doing on an almost weekly basis at this point.

[Emma Vigland]

The Democratic Party does not escape your critique. In your piece, you tell a story about Eric Cantor basically being willing to crash the US Economy knowing that Obama was coming into power and how the Republicans really embrace nihilism at that moment. But the Democrats have basically pretended that that streak of the party has not kind of taken over for years. What is your view of the Democrats and their role in this moment? Especially the national federal Democrats?

[Garrett Graff]

Yeah, so I think in exactly as you lay out that question to me, there's sort of a distinction between some very brave and forthright and clear eyed leadership that we have seen at the state level from Gavin Newsom and J.B. pritzker, among others, held up against the national Democrats in Congress who have been sort of stunningly quiet as the President deploys armed military to take over the city of Washington and the national capital. And you know, I think we need to it is very obvious to everyone that this takeover is being done to the people of D.C. and not to aid them. And you see that in the way that in D.C. you know, restaurant reservations are down, monuments are deserted, parks are deserted. Like people do not want to be out on the street for fear of running into these armed agents of the state. And the fact that Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer are unable to sort of muster the outrage necessary to say, hey, we shouldn't have the military occupying our capital and I'm going to sort of hold some press conference in D.C. to oppose that is really stunning to me. And you see echoes throughout all of this of the sort of creaking gerontocracy that has beset the Democratic Party in recent years, where Eleanor Holmes Norton, the nearly 90 year old longstanding D.C. delegate to Congress, has not even been seen in public since the, since, you know, the military was deployed to the city. And that when her office released her sort of initial statement, they even put out a photo of her at an unrelated protest to make it seem like she was active in a moment where she is clearly not able to actually act in the capacity that the residents of D.C. need her to be acting right now.

[Emma Vigland]

It's psychotic. And I know you have to Run. So just really quickly, last question. Can you just compare this moment and the resilience of our systems now to say, Nixon during Watergate. I know you wrote a book on this. So how was our response? Worse. Better. Where are we at in comparison to that?

[Garrett Graff]

Yeah. So we're in a much worse situation than we ever were in Watergate. And I say that because of what we've seen from the actions of the other two branches of government to both Congress and the Supreme Court, both of which also obviously under the control of the Republicans at this point, where they are aiding and abetting the national slide towards authoritarianism in a way where when you go back to Watergate, when you look at Nixon and Congress in that period from 1972 to 1974, it was very clear at that time that Republicans in Congress understood that their first duty was to the Constitution. It was to upholding their role as members of a co equal branch of government, to exert checks and balances on the executive branch and to stop its abuse of power. Whereas, of course, over the course of this year, we have seen repeatedly Congress not care when the president takes prerogatives to ignore congressional law. And the Supreme Court under John Roberts has written Trump effectively a blank check as president for immunity for criminal actions.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, not super encouraging, but a great discussion. I'm sorry, I know you have to run. I wish we could have you on for longer. Maybe another day. Garrett Graf, everybody. Check out the Doomsday Scenario newsletter and his latest piece, America Tips into Fascism. Thanks so much.

[Garrett Graff]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Emma Vigland]

All right, folks, quick break. When we come back, we are going to be speaking to Mark Hancock, national president of the Canadian Union of Public Employees. Be right back. It sa. We are back. And we are joined now by Mark Hancock, national president of Ken, Canada's largest union, the Canadian Union of Public Employees, here to talk about the Air Canada flight attendant strike and now contract that is being considered. Mark, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

[Mark Hancock]

Thanks, Emma. It's my pleasure to be on today.

[Emma Vigland]

Of course, we loved playing, I guess it was last week or two weeks ago, a clip of you saying that you would go to jail in defiance of the back to work order that was issued by the Canadian government when you were striking. Your union represents more than 10,000 Air Canada flight attendants. You're the largest union in Canada. It's quite significant to say that kind of thing given the size of your union. Like, did you feel in that moment like you wanted to take a stand? Because I know that some of the other kind of public sector unions in Canada had been hamstrung by the government's intervention in the months prior.

[Mark Hancock]

Yeah, I felt we had no choice. You know, these workers are amazing folks. Being a national president, of course, I fly across the country lots. I spend lots of time with flight attendants from Air Canada as well as other companies as well. And I see the work that they do firsthand. And they're amazing folks. 70% women, a lot of young folks that are really just trying to make by. And with the government intervening in Section 107, which had never been used in the labor code for decades. And in the last two years, it was used six times. And before that, I think it had been used once in the early 2000s. But for the government to use this basically ended negotiations or the thought of the company planning on going to arbitration and refusing to bargain. There was really no choice. We were ordered back to arbitration, and these workers were not going to be getting the best contract by going through this process. So it was. There really was no choice. It was a line in the sand. We're the biggest union in the country. We felt that we needed to take that sand, and we did that. Exactly.

[Emma Vigland]

It was amazing. And I just want to correct myself, maybe not public sector is the right word. It was port workers, rail workers, more recently. So that's who I was thinking of there. But just take us through what happened to lead to that point. I know that there was a walkout earlier in August, and quickly, of course, the Canadian government, led by the Liberals, ordered you guys back to work. But how did it get to that point when you had to make that statement, and we should say you quickly got them back to the bargaining table after basically saying, I'm not going to capitulate here.

[Mark Hancock]

The company was losing $60 million a day is what I understood. So it was having a big impact on them. We started bargaining just like we do in any round of bargaining. We have 2,000 locals, about 4,000 collective agreements that our members have across the country. We're bargaining every single day across the country. We know how to get contracts. It's not very often that we have to take a strike vote, never mind strike action. It does happen, but it doesn't happen a lot. So we were bargaining with the company, and this is one of the. We don't have a lot of private sector, but Air Canada is a company, so sometimes that's a little bit different when it comes to bargaining. So we were bargaining. It wasn't going great, but it was going okay. We were moving along. Things seemed to stall quite a bit. So we took a strike vote. And it was an incredible strike vote. It was 87, 88% participated and then 97% of the members voted for strike action. So those are huge numbers and just a little bit of backdrop, I guess, on this. We had just come out of a 10 year collective agreement with Air Canada and our members were frustrated with that. Didn't cover the cost of living that we've seen, especially since COVID In previous rounds of bargaining, the company had been in trouble. So there was a rollback of wages. At one point there was concessions around their pension in order to keep the company going, keep the company flying. And our members had really been suffering, especially the last five or six years. And so this was an important round of bargaining for a variety of reasons. Wages was definitely one of them. Not being paid while they're on the ground was another significant issue. But there was a whole pile of things that we wanted to negotiate. And we had had some success with the company negotiating a number of things. But when we took the strike vote, the brakes seemed to be applied by the company and it was pretty obvious to me and many folks that they were going to be looking for the government to intervene. And sure enough, we just started the strike on Saturday. It does feel like weeks ago, I think it was last week. We started the strike on Saturday and hours later, the Minister of Jobs, Patty Haydu, brought in section 107 and referred the whole matter to the CIRB, which is the Canadian Industrial Relations Board. And the company thought that would be it, that we would comply, that there would be some process through arbitration and that that would be the end of any dispute. And so they refuse to bargain. And quite often, I'm not sure how familiar you are with bargaining. You're bargaining towards a deadline and that's when things get serious, when a union is about to take strike action or to even vote on a strike, that's when really the progress is made at the bargaining table. But in this case, the company thought, knew, however you want to frame it, that the government was going to intervene and use 107. There was no reason for them to get serious about bargaining with us because as you said, once we made it clear that we were not going back to work without an agreement, that's when the company got serious. That's when they brought in a mediator and we were able to get an agreement in, I believe it was about seven hours.

[Emma Vigland]

It's amazing that you called their bluff like that. I mean, what could the government have done if they wanted to really enforce this in order to try to back up Air Canada here? I saw them kind of backtrack and be like, this would have just impacted the leaders, not the rank and file. Don't worry about it, or something like that. But it seems like they, this government didn't have the stomach to use this law, which I know like your union has called for the repeal of it. It was enacted in the 80s, which we here know in the states. How anti union that time period was for legislation.

[Mark Hancock]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what, you know, we were. We were facing criminal contempt, I think that day. And of course with that comes fines, serious fines, and also, you know, possibly jail time for me and potentially other labor leaders. And we just made it clear. And I spent a lot of time with these folks heading into the strike, even talking with them on flights about how they were struggling and they weren't getting paid for the time that they were sitting on the plane while it was docked at the airport. And I don't know how much you fly, but I fly a lot. And quite often there's lengthy periods of time that you're waiting for a plane. I was flew out of Edmonton yesterday and we were delayed over two and a half hours. And that time that the flight attendant is doing a ton of work or those flight attendants are doing a ton of work, they're not getting paid.

[Emma Vigland]

Right.

[Mark Hancock]

And it's an inconvenience for me and other passengers. But the fact that those workers, that these flight attendants are working just as hard when they're on the ground as when they're in the air and not getting compensated, there's just so much wrong with that. And we haven't completely fix that problem yet. But it's a good start in this collective agreement. And the government has also now called for an investigation, a probe into unpaid work, which we're going to obviously take a big part of. But yeah, I mean, they could have thrown me in jail, they could have fined us millions of dollars. There's lots of possible outcomes. But the members made it clear they were so brave. I was so impressed with them. I was at Pearson Airport for the whole dispute, couldn't fly anywhere else. But we were at Pearson and just talking to these folks, many young women that's struggling to get by making less than $2,000 a month in some cases at the low end, the new flight attendants, you can't live on those types of wages. So it was clear to me that if I needed to go to jail if we needed to pay fines, that we weren't backing down, that we were going to support those flight attendants until they got a deal at a bargaining table.

[Emma Vigland]

It's incredible to think that you can be at the gate but until those doors close, you could be waiting there for hours. The flight attendants are not getting paid for any of that until the boarding door closes as they have to maybe do the hardest part of their job, which is dealing with pissed off people on a delayed flight and providing them service. This is when it should be the opposite, where they get time and a half, double time. This is overtime work for them.

[Mark Hancock]

And that doesn't even include the time while they're at the gate inside the airport waiting for an incoming plane. And you know, that could be two, three, five hours and that doesn't include that. But I was on that plane yesterday and was flying from Edmonton to Vancouver and there was a problem with air traffic control in Vancouver. So they said, well, we're going to board the plane but you're going to sit there for about an hour. And then while we were sitting there for an hour, there was a problem developed with the plane. I don't, you know, of course, make the plane as safe as possible before we take off, but there was a lot of passengers who were flying from Edmonton to Vancouver and then beyond to Japan and China and different parts of the world. So those folks were really concerned about their connections and they ended up missing them because we had to have a few mechanics come on about another hour and then they still had to wait to leave because there was still the issue with the air traffic control in Vancouver. So that's was two and a half hours, three hours at least that we sat on the ground and the flight attendants had to deal with angry, frustrated passengers. So you're absolutely right that they should be actually compensated more for that time.

[Emma Vigland]

I know that this has been an issue for flight attendants here in the US too. American Airlines, I think got ground duty pay. Alaska Airlines too. I mean, what are the other areas that ownership, management, these corporations need to address in terms of not speaking about the specifics of the contract that's being considered right now, but just the hazards of the work that you and your member, that your members do and what isn't being considered basically?

[Mark Hancock]

Well, as I said a bit earlier, we actually made some progress at the bargaining table on a few items and I'm no expert in the industry, I come out of a municipal local here in bc, but there was issues around rest time that was dealt with at the bargaining table. There was issues around their pension. They lost indexing, as I said a bit earlier, they were able to achieve some of that. So there were some things that our members felt that were important going into this round of bargaining. But the big things really were those two items was the ground time not being paid for and the wages. They'd fallen so far behind in the wages. And the employer had an opportunity because we signed a 10 year deal and I had just become national president at that point and 10 year deals are way, way too long. I much prefer seeing a two year or maybe a three year collective agreement. But they did that for the sake of labour peace and supporting and helping Air Canada turn it around, which is now making over two and a half billion dollars profit a year. So they have turned it around. They had these chance during barGaining There was two wage reopeners and rather than deal with the cost of living crisis that we saw the last few years, they refused to increase the pay by any amount.

[Emma Vigland]

And if they're stock buybacks instead.

[Mark Hancock]

Yeah, no, it's, it's the priorities. Right, it's, and this might, you know, the, the CEO actually they saw the Canadian government during COVID handed out money to, to employers to help keep them going, you know, during a very difficult time. Air Canada took advantage of that. They had nobody flying, if you'll remember, like we were shut down for months and months. And they took that money and they turned it into bonuses for their vice presidents, which I did some media on the time, which I have no idea how they were able to make that seem like it was reasonable or they probably have to pay it back or maybe they paid it back, I don't know. But the fact that they would apply to government for money that was intended for employers that were really struggling and trying to keep working and keep employees working and use that for bonuses for the vice presidents is despicable. And there's not much positive I can say about the Air Canada senior management. But they're so lucky to have these great flight attendants working with them and they should treat them with respect. And the ground pay, I think there's a couple companies in the US that has it, Porter Airlines who just voted to join cupea has some as well. It's not nearly where it needs to be. And as I said, this is a step for us in getting ground pay. We're not, we're not getting 100% all the time. It's a very first step. And if we can encourage or we can convince the government to end free work. We're going to do everything that we possibly can because these workers deserve so much more.

[Emma Vigland]

Lastly, I know that your union has been outspoken about the Canadian government responding to calls for, you know, Palestinian liberation, the rights for Palestinians, and trying to, you know, end the genocide and the complicity of the Canadian government. We know that Carney is recognizing a Palestinian state, lapping the United States on that, unfortunately. But people may see that advocacy and go, why? I mean, what does that have to do with the workers in your union? What would you say to that question?

[Mark Hancock]

Yeah, we're a Canadian union, but we take a lot of interest in what's happening globally. I visited Colombia last year and I've been down there twice, meeting with workers, meeting with peace activists in different groups. And when it comes to what's happening in Palestine right now and the genocide in Gaza, it's our moral obligation to speak out on that. And while Carney has taken some steps, I would say he's been dragged kicking and screaming all the way to take the steps that he has. And governments all across the globe should be demanding that that genocide stop. And part of the reason that we have become so entrenched in our position is workers have been killed on the ground in Gaza, workers that we would represent here in Canada. So folks like healthcare workers or power workers or ambulance paramedics, a variety. And they've been targeted. And there's proven journalists as well. I know Uniforce convention is on right now and they were just talking about how they're supporting journalists on the ground in Gaza and Palestine. So it's an important position for us. To be frank, not all of our members support journalists us in this, but morally it's the right position to take.

[Emma Vigland]

Actual last question here. You don't need to answer specifically on this, but you know, as we're trying to take lessons from what your union is doing, I'm curious if you have a response to the last administration, Biden using kind of a similar threat on the rail strikers to end the strike. Different reaction from Air Canada based on your actions. But what was your view on that, if you do have one? Because I'd be curious how we can incorporate some of your tactics over here.

[Mark Hancock]

No, I mean, it's, you know, in the past we had, the governments hadn't used 107 on us. They took us to Parliament and they would bring in legislation back to work orders and we never agreed with those. And we've taken those to courts. We're in the courts pretty much across the country in almost all of our provinces standing up for workers. And while, you know, while none of our members want to go on strike, sometimes you just have to say there is no other choice. And, you know, I'm not going to criticize other unions in Canada or other unions in the states, but fundamentally, governments should stay the hell out of it. Deals are found at bargaining tables and when governments intervene time and time again, workers pay the price. And when unions take those governments to court, we win. At least up here in Canada. I'm not sure about the track record of the states, but every time we take a government or it's usually governments in our case to court them, it takes 10 years to get through the damn process. But every single time, we win. But you can't wait 10 years for the rights of workers to be upheld. Especially in this case with our members that are making such poor wages and working for free. There's no way in hell that we could have waited 10 years to work our way through the courts. So that line in the sand, proverbial or otherwise, I think unions have to start drawing that more often.

[Emma Vigland]

Well said. Mark Hancock, national president of the Canadian Union of Public Employees. Thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.

[Mark Hancock]

Thank you very much. And my son Kaden got in touch with you folks. I'm happy to do this. And he's watching now with my daughter Kira. So big hi to both of them. Shout out.

[Matt]

Caden.

[Emma Vigland]

Hi to Kaden, hi to Kira. So glad that they made the connection here because we were thrilled to have you on. Thanks so much.

[Mark Hancock]

Right on. It's been my pleasure. You guys take care.

[Emma Vigland]

You too. All right, well, with that, folks, we are going to be joined by a special guest in just a second for the fun half. But I did want to remind people of this Gaza bakery that we have been highlighting here as like a place where if you have some extra funds, so, you know, usually I would plug right now, become a majority report member, but today instead, please see if you can help the Gaza bakery here. I received a message from them after we played the footage of the double tap strike on Nasser Hospital that killed workers and people who were trying to help basically after the first strike happened. And one of the people in the video was a member of the family here.

[Matt]

So did you see the Israel's what they said their reasoning for that double tap was they were shooting at a Hamas camera. Yeah, psychotic.

[Emma Vigland]

You know, the camera, the scary camera. Look at the camera.

[Matt]

Like Srin Abu Akla.

[Emma Vigland]

Gaza. The Gaza bakery has been doing Its best to feed folks. It's incredibly difficult conditions. It's probably quite difficult to get the food in there. But we have seen videos and we've played them for you about their work. One of their family members was in gray in that video. I don't know if people saw it, but it's on camera. So was trying to help and was killed by the second strike by the Israelis. So if you can please help the Gaza bakery. Matt, what's happening on Left Reckoning?

[Matt]

Yeah, Left Reckoning. We had a great show last night. Pele Dragstad talking about his book on Nordic socialism. And also we had a author talk about military health issues. Alexander Lemon's talking about war body which is, I mean different types of poisonings you have for being a true so yeah, they don't put that in the brochure when it's like, hey, travel to fancy locations and get your college paid for. You might have heavy metal poisoning, but you know, at least you didn't have to pay for college to go into massive amounts of debt. So America, America.

[Emma Vigland]

Patreon.com leftreckoning and now we will bring in our special guest. Always, always a pleasure, Francesca Fiorentini, comedian, host of the Bituation Room, who will be in Houston tomorrow.

[Matt]

And and if you can unmute.

[Emma Vigland]

Francesca, you are muted. I will speak for you. You were saying some really offensive things. I won't repeat that obviously to the audience. But anyway, you and your great husband Matt Leeb of the bad Hasbro show. And also Pod Yourself a Gun, which is now about Mad Men even though originally it's about the Sopranos.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

So I don't know how I muted.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, we hear you now.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Okay, great. Okay. Sorry, I, it's not like it's my first time. What's up guys? Yes, thank you for having me. And yeah, if anyone wants to, you know, take a load off in the Houston area, come down, see Matt and myself, we co headline. It's super fun.

[Emma Vigland]

The Houston punchline. Here it is 7:30pm tomorrow when you're jetting off in just a bit.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Yes, in like half an hour. So you know, Houston, Texas, first red state in a while. Not necessarily our market, but I know there's some awesome Frantifa and probably some very moral listeners out in the Houston.

[Emma Vigland]

Area who should come first, which is very moral listeners.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

The most moral listener. It's very fun to me now to be on shows with Matt because there are people who come who have no idea who I am. And so I'll be like, we'll Be, like, waiting to go on. And then someone will just, like, walk past me and be like, oh, that's. And then Matt will walk past them, and they'll be like, oh, my God, that's the guy we just came to see. Oh, my God. And I'll.

[Emma Vigland]

How does that feel? How does it feel to completely be outshined by your husband? I feel like this is backward for women.

[Garrett Graff]

This is.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

No, it really is awful. It's awful because every time before, if I would ever get recognized from random, you know, AJ plus stuff, Matt would come up to me, come up to them and be like, what about me?

[Emma Vigland]

Do you.

[Brian]

What.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

What about here? He would make it such a huge thing, and just the idea that there are, like, you know, women swooning over him. I mean, look, I. I married him. I. There's a reason for that. But I'm also like, come on.

[Emma Vigland]

Come on. Have you heard him chew?

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Have you heard him eat?

[Emma Vigland]

Anyway, so, yeah, please come.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Come see it. It'll be super fun. And also plugs out of the way. I'm working on a new format, y'.

[Emma Vigland]

All.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

I'm doing long form. Emma, I don't know if you've. If I've said this to you, but I'm doing. I've switched it up because the news is just, like. It's too much, and I.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, it's. It's great. This is one your latest or one of your latest? The mahalies? One.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Yes. This is everything RFK has destroyed so far. And I say this as someone who. I don't know about you guys, but I like skip RFK Jr stories because they're so depressing and terrifying. And so this. I was like, let's put all the pain in one place. It's an hour long, so if you guys want to check it out, viewers, you can also listen as a podcast. That would be tight. And now I'm freezing, and I'm good.

[Emma Vigland]

No, you sound good, though. So it's all good. That's awesome. I love that format. Check it out. The Bituation room is a great listen, as always. All right, well, also, Austin's kind of taken over by those, like, comedy cosplayers, right? So you can make Houston into the new hot city down there.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

First of all, I love Houston. You'll be, like, in Houston. And a random person will be like.

[Emma Vigland]

I like your hair.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

And you're like, I love you. No, Houston's amazing. I am halfway through the new elephant graveyard video, which is taking down the mothership and the Rogan sphere. I'm sure Brian probably has already seen it. And it's eight minutes after it came out.

[Emma Vigland]

I sent it to Brian immediately, but I didn't finish it myself. I watched the first 20 minutes. The guy is amazing.

[Brian]

And settled some personal scores.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

My only gripe, I'm halfway through. And here's my thing about what spurred Rogan. I also think that the MeToo backlash has everything to do, especially MeToo in the comedy sphere, because it did hit the comedy world as well, obviously, and all of those comedians are no longer working, so they've all been canceled. And so I think that also the reaction to MeToo, I think, really, is what also juiced some of the mothership and this reactionary comedy.

[Matt]

Yeah, we'll put it up here. Get the title in there, Brian, so people can see what the title of the video is. But this is. Yeah, Elephant Graveyard, I believe, a Canadian content creator who is. I mean, we've plugged this stuff.

[Emma Vigland]

We've played it before. Yeah.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt]

Just sort of genius, half genuine, half sort of. Sort of hammed up psychoanalysis.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

It's giving a little bit of loose change. There's a lot of, like, loose change vibes. But you know what? I'm kind of here for it.

[Emma Vigland]

I mean, his. His. He broke down Rogan's latest standup special, so you don't have to. That's another one of his famous videos. So everyone go check out.

[Matt]

And when he zeros in on Rogan's daddy issues, I usually downplay, like, sort of psychoanalysis. I think it's pretty. Usually not that insightful and says more about the person doing it. But in this case, no. Like, we have Joe Rogan's brain sort of like on a. Like. Like a frog in a high school dissection table. Like, we can see everything about that.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

And. And the Elon. Daddy issues, too.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, my God. I mean, that's. You don't even need to psychoanalyze that. He just laid it all out for us, everybody. Yep. All right, guys, we'll head into the fun half, and we'll have Francesca stick around for just a little bit before her flight and do some clips. See you on the other side. Okay.

[Brian]

Emma, please.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the Majority report.

[Brian]

Wait, look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a vacation at Disney World, so. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma.

[Mark Hancock]

It is Thursday.

[Brian]

Yes, please. I'm.

[Emma Vigland]

I'm.

[Brian]

I'm going to pause you right there.

[Emma Vigland]

Wait, what?

[Brian]

You can't encourage Emma to live like this and I'll tell you why. Who was offered a tour? Sushi and poker with the boys. Tour sushi and poker with the boys. Who was offered a tour?

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Sushi and poker with the boys. What? Tour, sushi and poker.

[Emma Vigland]

Tim's upset.

[Brian]

Twerk, Sushi and bulker with two boys was offered with twerk. Sushi and that's what we call biz. Twerk, sushi and poker. Boys.

[Emma Vigland]

Right.

[Brian]

Sushi and.

[Emma Vigland]

We're gonna get demonetized.

[Brian]

I just think that what you did to Tim Pool was mean.

[Emma Vigland]

Free speech.

[Brian]

That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about him. I think you're responsible.

[Emma Vigland]

I probably. Probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.

[Brian]

Sushi and poker with the boys. Oh, my God. Wow. Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered with tour, sushi and poker with the boys. Logic. Sushi and poker with. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a kid. Twerk. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Add this debate 7,000 times. A little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Little care. Think I'm like a dick. I'm losing my mind. Some people just don't understand. So I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but, like, I absolutely think the us should be combining me with a wife and kids.

[Emma Vigland]

That's not what we're talking about here, all right?

[Brian]

It's not a fun job. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. Willy Walker. That's a real thing. That's got offered to work. That's a real thing. That's got a real thing. Real thing. That's a real thing. That's got a real thing. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. That's a real thing. I think he might be blowing it out of proportion. Real thing. That's poker with the boys. Offer. That's a real thing. That's poker. Let's go, Joey. Twerk sushi and poker with the boy. Take it easy. Then twerk, sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker. Sushi. You don't have a clue as to what's going on. Live YouTube. Sam has the weight of the world on his shoulders.

[Emma Vigland]

Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore. It was so much easier when the majority report was just you.

[Brian]

Let's change the subject. Rangers and Knicks are doing great up.

[Emma Vigland]

You don't want people saying reckless things on your program.

[Brian]

That's one of the most difficult parts about this show.

[Emma Vigland]

This is a pro killing podcast.

[Brian]

I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury.

[Emma Vigland]

The hatchet left his best violet twerk.

[Brian]

Don't be foolish and don't tweet at me and don't the way Emma has all of these people love it.

[Emma Vigland]

That's where my heart is. So I wrote my honors thesis about.

[Mark Hancock]

It.

[Brian]

Is I guess I should hand the main mic to you now. You are to the right of the unform policy.

[Emma Vigland]

We already found Israel.

[Brian]

Dude.

[Emma Vigland]

Are you against that?

[Brian]

That's a tougher question I have an answer to. Incredible theme song.

[Emma Vigland]

Hi bumbler.

[Brian]

Emma Viland. Absolutely one of my favorite people actually. Not just in the game.