3573 - ICE Demoralized and "Antifa Leader" exposed w/ Ken Klippenstein

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3573 - ICE Demoralized and "Antifa Leader" Exposed w/ Ken Klippenstein
Date: February 4, 2026
Guest: Ken Klippenstein (Independent journalist, Clip News)
Notable Co-hosts: Emma Viglund, Matt

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on investigative reporting by Ken Klippenstein regarding two major stories:

1. The Department of Homeland Security's pursuit of an alleged "leader" of Antifa in Portland, which highlights the farcical nature of the federal approach to anti-fascist protest movements.
2. The severe morale and operational breakdown within ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement), including evidence of mismanagement, internal resistance, and the human consequences of current immigration enforcement policy.

The team also discusses the broader political landscape, including recent legislative efforts at voter disenfranchisement, the fallout from the Epstein files, media failures, and the connections between tech oligarchs, far-right politics, and government agencies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Antifa Commander" Farce

[27:35–34:12]

• Ken Klippenstein describes obtaining a DHS report designating a young Portland man as the "suspected leader of Antifa."
  • The "leader's" crime: letting pepper-sprayed protesters use his bathroom and wash off.
  • Klippenstein notes, "He looks like a composite of just like any random protester...and no criminal record, no allegation of crime in the intelligence report. Just the simple fact that he's opening his apartment up." (Ken, 28:19)
• The hosts ridicule the federal approach, underscoring the lack of any real Antifa hierarchy and the administration’s desperation to find figureheads (“They’re mapping it out like after 9/11, the baseball cards of Al Qaeda,” Ken, 30:07).
• Emma Viglund: “Can you just explain though...about Antifa and the nature of, like, Antifa activities?...It's not a centrally organized group and yet this administration is insisting it's...not really a group.” (29:43)

2. ICE’s Institutional Meltdown

[43:31–66:00]

• Demoralization and Internal Strain
  • ICE is plagued by severe bureaucratic chaos—pay delays, confusion over command structure, and overwhelming quotas.
  • Ken: “It's a bureaucratic disaster how it's being run...They themselves don't know who's in charge of what's going on. So it's a total cluster.” (47:09)
• Resistance and Discomfort within the Ranks
  • Growing internal dissatisfaction and ethical discomfort among agents—some are leaking information to journalists, others consider quitting.
  • “They’re not going to join the protesters, but it makes them feel bad what’s going on. And it just is having an effect that I don’t think is being captured by, a, the media, and B, the administration...” (Ken, 39:58)
• Administrative Failures Impacting Staff and Detainees
  • ICE recruits are experiencing issues like not receiving health insurance for months or missing promised hiring bonuses, leading to anonymous online complaints (see examples at 45:05–46:24).
  • “I have so many stories just like that...People don’t realize how much...despair [there is] from people”—Ken, 61:01.
• Quotas and Dubious Metrics
  • Agents under pressure to meet impossible quotas fabricate paperwork and inflate arrest statistics (e.g., multiple agencies count the same arrest as separate ones).
  • “They will all record one arrest as one arrest for each of the constituent parts...so they can go to Washington...” (Ken, 63:27)
    • Sam analogizes: "It's almost like cold callers...if they don't close any of them, they don't care because they delivered their 30 leads." (53:37)

3. Tactical Failure in Targeting Protesters

[34:12–42:14]

• DHS is using anti-terrorism justification (force protection) to surveil US citizens protesting near ICE facilities.
• The legal architecture requires a pretense of defending ICE from "threats," enabling broad data collection and watchlisting.
• Trump’s designation of Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization lets the national security state surveil ordinary citizens under the guise of counterterrorism.

4. The Watchlist & Informant Problem

[39:10–41:39]

• Informants and undercover law enforcement are deployed to provoke or monitor protests, but the actual “evidence” of organized criminality is sparse to non-existent.
• The government is resorting to "pathetic" attempts to craft a pretext for continued crackdown.

5. Media Complicity and the Epstein Files

[11:51–16:54]

• Discussion of media failures to pursue major leads or scandals, especially relating to the Epstein files, even as evidence implicates high-profile figures and points to deep ties between finance, tech, and political elites.
• “It is really shocking—the mainstream media lack of real reporting on the most salacious elements of this...The same old guard that was complicit in the covering up of these pedophiles are the ones consuming this kind of media.” (Emma, 16:54)
• "If you want to say Peter Thiel is in significant control of the White House, you would not be stretching the truth..." (Emma, 17:29)

6. Broader Political Context

[06:23–09:30]

• The SAVE Act is moving through Congress, designed to disenfranchise millions by requiring Real ID or passports for voting—potentially disenfranchising tens of millions.
• ICE and federal security forces are expected to be deployed at polling locations, with a particular intent to intimidate voters of color, especially Latinos.
• "They're going to try and direct their attention to blue states only. They are going to try and have ICE and federal thugs surrounding polling stations." (Sam, 07:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When I came into covering national security, I was expecting Jason Bourne...what you've gotten is more Reno911.”
  (Ken Klippenstein on the amateurish reality of federal intelligence work, 28:19)
• “Decency is terrorism under Trump.”
  (Emma Viglund, 67:16)
• “They’re not just talking about this stuff. They really believe it.”
  (Ken, on top officials’ belief in the existence of an Antifa hierarchy, 30:07)
• "ICE literally in its handbook has no policy at all, zero mention of protesters, civil unrest, even rioters...they've been put on this new mission which places it basically at war with American protesters, but they haven't updated the institution at all."
  (Ken, 49:48)
• “It should be understood that both internally, they are collapsing in terms of morale...I’ve talked to lots of agents.”
  (Ken, 39:58)
• “The opposition to it is not partisan in character...there are a lot of hardliners that are like, this is not an effective way to increase immigration enforcement.”
  (Ken, 53:45)
• “This is so important for, I think, protesters, for people who are resisting, because this is a war of attrition...people should know the ICE people are getting tired. And you know, this is going to be a long haul for 10 months between now and then.”
  (Sam, 65:27)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [27:35] Introduction to Ken and the "Antifa leader" case
• [30:07] Federal officials' belief in Antifa as a structured group
• [39:10] Undercover infiltration, informant tactics, and moral confusion in law enforcement
• [45:05] Reading from the ICE Reddit board about internal complaints
• [47:09] Ken confirms the reality of severe administrative dysfunction
• [53:11] Discussion of case quotas and report fabrication by ICE agents
• [61:01] ICE attorney confesses despair, exhaustion in federal court
• [65:27] Sam’s “war of attrition” analogy—ICE more demoralized than protesters

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Additional Highlights

Legislative Updates & Broader Political Threats

• Discussion of the potential passage of the SAVE Act, a bill that could disenfranchise tens of millions.
• ICE and federal agents being positioned at polling sites to intimidate voters, particularly targeting communities of color ([09:30–10:09]).

Media Failure

• Connections drawn between Bezos slashing the Washington Post newsroom and the lack of substantive reporting on critical stories.
• Peter Thiel's influence on White House policy, ties among tech, finance, and intelligence elites.

Humanizing the Story

• The so-called "Antifa leader" is revealed to simply be a decent man helping protesters.
• ICE agents' struggles mirror the exploited working-class stories often found in harsh, low-choice job sectors.

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Conclusion

Ken Klippenstein’s reporting pierces the official narrative about domestic security threats and exposes the operational and ethical failures within ICE and DHS. The “war” on Antifa and protesters is simultaneously amateurish, chaotic, and morally corrosive—producing internal resistance, demoralization, and a farcical search for leadership that does not exist. The episode urges listeners to recognize the cracks in federal agencies and to see continued protest and resistance as effective in a “war of attrition,” as well as to remain vigilant regarding attacks on democracy and the erosion of civil liberties.

“They’re breaking in many ways more than the protesters are.” – Sam Cedar (65:59)

For more, visit Ken Klippenstein’s Clip News on Substack.

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End of summary. This coverage omits all ads, sponsor messages, and non-content banter.

Transcript

[Sam Cedar]

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[Emma Viglund]

Basically their entire, their entire Middle east bureau. Almost all of their foreign coverage just gutted.

[Sam Cedar]

The good news is Melania should be streaming soon. 40 over what? No, excuse me, was it $70 million they spent on that? New York, New Jersey sue the Trump administration over the $16 billion due for Hudson River Tunnels repair and construction that Trump has just decided not to release. Homeland Security now trying to force tech companies to hand over data about people who have been critical of Donald Trump. And New York launches a portal to report on ICE movements in the state. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. It is of course hump day, says Emma Viglund. And when she says it, you know it's true because she coined the phrase.

[Emma Viglund]

Exactly right. This is the news you can trust.

[Sam Cedar]

Exactly.

[Emma Viglund]

Here it is.

[Sam Cedar]

I guess we shouldn't start off that way, but that's all right. Yeah, it's hump day. It feels like. It feels like the weeks are 15 days long and we are 12 days into the weak.

[Emma Viglund]

Exactly right.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Right.

[Sam Cedar]

Is that accurate?

[Emma Viglund]

Pretty much.

[Matt]

What happens when a world order is breaking down and revolutionary things are in the offing, it seems like. Or at least there needs to be one. I don't know if there's going to be one, but it feels like the French Revolution.

[Emma Viglund]

I mean, we're at that level of.

[Matt]

Incoming wealth inequality and just degeneracy among the people who are supposed to be ruling the world.

[Emma Viglund]

Pretty much.

[Sam Cedar]

I am only eating cake lately.

[Emma Viglund]

Yeah, maybe Chris Matthews at a point. Time to be afraid. Central Park. Well, setting up barracks.

[Sam Cedar]

We'll get into this as the show progresses. But understand what happened yesterday. 21 Democrat, 21 Republicans voted against the funding bill. 21 Democrats voted for the funding bill. This also provides for only a 10 day extension on DHS funding. Some of the Republicans who are holding out were doing so because they wanted to attach the SAVE act to this bill. The SAVE act is essentially a bill that would disenfranchise something like 70, 80 million people because it would, a, a driver's license would not be sufficient. You need a real id, which is the new updated driver's license, or a passport. And there are tens of millions of people who don't have passports in this country, probably over 100 million. But in terms of voters, and the idea is the, they are trying to wreak havoc on the midterm elections. There's, we're going to be talking about this a lot more because this is the name of the game. They attempted to do the gerrymander. It did not work. In fact, it backfired. They are, they are going to do a combination of things in an attempt to, in an attempt to disenfranchise a lot of voters. They're going to try and make this a filibuster proof bill in the Senate so that the Republicans will pass it. They're going to try and direct their attention to blue states only. They are going to try and have ICE and federal thugs surrounding, you know, polling stations. And what we saw in Georgia is just sort of like a dry run, if you will, of them coming in and seizing ballots.

[Emma Viglund]

I'm thinking about Texas right now. There was an article this morning about how concerned Republicans are with how much ground they've lost with Latino voters because as you're saying, their gerrymandering effort was based on 2024 election results where there was a swing of Latino voters to Trump and it is going well in the opposite direction. So what would ICE being at polling stations be meant to do in terms of the goal? It's about intimidating a lot of people, but particularly Latino voters. If you're, if you're a citizen, like you're a citizen, you can vote, but say you were born in a different country, are you going to show up that day to vote?

[Sam Cedar]

Never mind Born if you look like. If you mean, you know, we know what the ICE are doing now. They're rolling up people who just look black or brown. And so in understand, I guess I don't know if this is apt. But if you think about the COVID protections, right. I wear a mask. I stay out of like, I stay a certain distance from people. I get vaccinated. Maybe I take some type of. Maybe I take Ivermectin as a prophylactic.

[Emma Viglund]

Don't.

[Matt]

I mean, I got a monthly subscription because I don't like big pharma.

[Sam Cedar]

The point. The point being that there are multiple ways in which you protect yourself and you're essentially creating a, you know, a sieve and you're just trying to make the holes of that sieve smaller and smaller and smaller. That's what they're doing in terms of the voting. They're going to deploy thing after thing after thing and they're going to get more and more desperate and more and more dramatic with the things they're going to deploy. We will. That is going to be the story between now and November. I don't know if we're exactly 10 months away, but that's basically what it's going to be. In the meantime, Donald Trump really thinks that he is going to get past the Epstein thing because the stuff has come out and he's starting to realize, like, man, outside of Melania, who cares? No one's going to touch me here. He is getting agitated by it, though. In the White House, this is the voice you hear. The questioner is Kaitlan Collins.

[Emma Viglund]

Yeah. On the Epstein House, you talk about Democrats who were in there. Elon Musk was also in there and so was your Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, and correspondents that he had with him. Did you read those new files that were published by the Department of Justice?

[Sam Cedar]

I didn't.

[Donald Trump]

I have a lot of things I'm doing, you know, a lot of things I'm doing.

[Matt]

I don't know.

[Donald Trump]

You mentioned two names. I'm sure they're fine. I'm sure they're fine. Otherwise it would have been major headlines.

[Emma Viglund]

A lot of women who were are survivors of Epstein's are unhappy with those redactions that came out. Some of them entire witness interviews are totally blacked out. Do you think that they should be more transparent?

[Donald Trump]

They thought they released too much. You know, I heard that. And you tell me something else. You know, I think it's really time for the country to get onto something else. Really, you know, now that nothing came out about me other than it was a conspiracy against me, literally by Epstein and other people. But I think it's time now for the country to maybe get onto something else.

[Emma Viglund]

But what would you say to people.

[Donald Trump]

Who feel like they have crisis, Mr. President, something that people care about. You know, what do you say?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Go ahead.

[Emma Viglund]

What would you say to the survivors who feel like they haven't gotten.

[Donald Trump]

You are the worst reporter no one to see. CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile on you.

[Emma Viglund]

Well, I'm asking you about survivors.

[Donald Trump]

You know, why you're not smiling? Because you know, you're not telling the truth and you're, you're a very dishonest organization and they should be ashamed of you.

[Emma Viglund]

These are survivors.

[Sam Cedar]

You know, when you're talking about the, essentially the child rape and you're not smiling, it's too bad for a young girl to not smile in that moment.

[Emma Viglund]

It really bothers him. I mean, she's been, Collins has been featuring the Epstein survivors a lot. If you recall, she was at the beginning of kind of this news cycle once this started breaking down for Trump and the Republicans. She was having Virginia Giuffre's family on and they were essentially pleading for the release of these files. So she's connected to the victims as a reporter and they are saying that this is insufficient. I mean, they haven't released everything. They're. They violated the law with these redactions of the people on the side that Trump is saying who are unhappy about the information being released. It's like both sides, the pedophiles and the victims are unhappy about the release of these files. Yeah, I mean, it's, she's representing that. And that bothers him and triggers him. And so as his dementia progresses, his sexism and misogyny becomes even more old timey. He was like two seconds away from saying, make me a sandwich.

[Sam Cedar]

You know, I think the, he does have a point insofar as there are no headlines that we're seeing. I mean, we were just talking in the office like, you know, and this is obviously coming at a time like one third of the newsroom at the Washington Post is going to be eliminated. It is when you have the same owner of the Washington Post just put out a $70 million documentary on Melania is quite. With Brett Ratner, who's in the Files, in the files, directing you get a sense that maybe the agenda is to not piss off Trump. And so you're not seeing stories about this. And I don't know if like the New York Times is waiting on like independent journalists to do most of the legwork here.

[Emma Viglund]

And then steal it a year later, basically.

[Matt]

Yeah, dilute it.

[Sam Cedar]

And let's be clear too, I mean, 3 million documents dumped. It takes a long time to go through these. And you know, as we're going through this stuff, trying to establish like, you know, what stuff is real, what stuff is not real on Twitter. I mean, Donald Trump supposedly their sworn testimony by a victim that Donald Trump had threatened to disappear a young girl and he was implicated in this stuff. But you won't find any of that in the newspapers.

[Emma Viglund]

How about the picture of the young girl in the SpaceX T shirt? Quite soon after, it seems like the emails have Elon Musk meeting with Jeffrey Epstein, where the recipient of the email sent by Epstein or no, sorry, the sender to Epstein is redacted, not supposed to be.

[Matt]

Those are the sorts of redactions, like there's so much redactions that seem to be protecting the identities of people who are involved in really nasty stuff with this. And just by the way, then nothing came out about me. Yeah, because all the stuff's out. Trump was at pageants with Jeffrey Epstein in the 90s. So yeah, we know what was happening there. It was trafficking. I'm sorry, like there's no way to look at these stories, including by survivors that say, yeah, it was like organized crime, the way they were looming around those rooms. So this idea that Trump is scot free of this is because like, I mean, it wasn't in those emails. It doesn't mean that there isn't enough on record to indict Trump on this stuff. In my opinion.

[Emma Viglund]

It is really shocking the mainstream media lack of real reporting on the most salacious elements of this. And it's contributing to a significant divide, I think, generationally in how this story is being pursued, received. And the same old guard that was complicit in the covering up of these pedophiles are the ones consuming this kind of media that obscures the biggest stories in here, which are the intelligence ties, the ties to finance. I mean, there was an email that came out where Peter Thiel and Jeffrey Epstein just talking, talking about this all stuff.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Emma Viglund]

Oh yeah. I mean this is just openly saying in exchanges with Peter Thiel what they want for the world. Return to tribalism, counter to globalization. Amazing. New alliances. You and I both agreed zero interest rates were too high. As I said to you in your office, finding things on their way to collapse was much easier than finding the next bargain. Talking about basically collapsing the rules based international order and stealing everything in its wake. We've talked about this over and over again. It, it's literally a blueprint for how the Trump administration is operating. If you want to say Peter Thiel is in significant control of the White House, you would not be stretching the truth there, given his close relationship with J.D. vance. What Epstein and Thiel outline in that email exchange is exactly what the Trump administration is pursuing on the global and domestic stage.

[Matt]

One of the primary technology figures behind this whole occupation of our cities by ice is Palantir. Like, it's crazy.

[Sam Cedar]

And I think also that exchange also sort of like illustrates the one that you mentioned, Emma illustrates. You know, for years people are like, how, how can the super wealthy not realize like their fate is bound with the rest of the planets as things. And they, they don't believe it is.

[Emma Viglund]

It's not.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean they, their sense is like, you know, we could have a couple of billion die off, but it's just a profit opportunity. That's all that.

[Matt]

The scope is a little bit different. I'll try to make this point quickly, but like the Brexit thing is not different than when Epistein is talking to a college girl about which couch she wants to buy and then he's like, yeah, come to dinner with a coach, you want to buy and by the way, I'll help pay for your all your college. But you need to start thinking about what you're willing to give in these relationships. It's because they see deprivation and financial stress as an opportunity. That's the class of people running our political economy of the world.

[Emma Viglund]

And we wonder why Trump's tariffs are part of the policies.

[Matt]

Why do writers all of a sudden start saying we should be nice to billionaires? And also student loan debt relief is bad. It's because they serve this class of people.

[Sam Cedar]

You know, unrelated. Maybe we'll save this for the fun half. But like I was trying to think back on like when Ezra Klein came out and said like, I don't think these things are too. I stayed separate. I, I am quite convinced that that was like Larry Summers trying to get out ahead of stuff. I mean they, you know, they've appeared on podcast together and I suspect that. I don't think you make that you just speculate on that based upon. No, when you do, no insight yeah, you know what I mean?

[Emma Viglund]

I mean he is. All right, whatever.

[Matt]

We get granular about that in the phone.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, we'll get granular.

[Emma Viglund]

I sent you the clip on Twitter.

[Sam Cedar]

The Matt, sorry I got thrown off. It's like popped into my head, like I got.

[Emma Viglund]

I'm sorry. I literally sent it to Matt and I said, make this a sound drop to surprise Sam with. And then you just mentioned that. Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Emma Viglund]

So great minds.

[Sam Cedar]

In a moment we're going to be talking to Ken Klippenstein who has been doing great work. We now know who is in charge of antifa, which has been good because we've been sending smoke signals, nobody's responded to us. And also the demoralization that can only be encouraged in the context within ice. We will talk about that in a moment. First, a couple words from our sponsors. You cannot out exercise a bad diet. A balanced diet is crucial to support a healthy lifestyle. Everybody's got nutrient gaps due to genetics, due to dietary preferences, even modern farming practices that deplete soil from nutrients. The good news is Ritual's team of scientists pored over thousands of studies to identify the common gaps between nutrient needs and and what people are actually consuming across different life stages. I've been taking ritual vitamins now for multivitamins for, I don't know, several years now. And for me the big thing was frankly the convenience because my doctor would say to me, you don't have enough vitamin D which is a big problem, particularly for people who spend all day inside looking at their computer because the news is so horrible. And I would forget, I would go out, I would buy the vitamins, I would take them for the month, they would run out, then I would never buy them again. The thing I love about rituals, a they will send it to you on a regular basis but B it's also very gentle on your stomach. So when you remember to take them, you could take them. They also have a, they are science back, they are traceable. They have a science backed multivitamin for men 18 plus with key ingredients like Omega 3 DHA to support heart and brain health. Vitamin D3 to support normal muscle and immune function. Rituals essential for men 18 plus multivitamin contains 10 key nutrients and two delayed release capsules designed for optimal absorption per day. It's designed to be gentle on the stomach with a minty essence in every bottle. That helps making taking your multis actually enjoyable. Instead of striving for perfect health, aim for supporting foundational health. Save 25% off on your first [e-mail] majority. That's ritual.com majority for 25% off your first month. We'll put that in the podcast and YouTube descriptions. Also finding very, very hard to get out of bed these days. Not the least of which because of my Cozy Earth sheets. And February is a great time to get even a little bit more cozy. Also great time to get gifts for Valentine's Day. They have amazing pajamas that are made from viscose. Viscose. Viscous. Viscose. Anyways, it's from bamboo. They are incredibly soft and I have given this as a gift now for like two years running on Valentine's Day and huge, huge hit. This stuff is incredibly comfortable. They've got great hoodies and joggers. The sheets are amazing. The towels are amazing. I have got so much Cozy Earth stuff at my house now, it's crazy. And right now Cozy Earth is offering a BOGO pajama deal that you won't see at any other time of the year. A classic Cozy Earth favorite, these pajamas, it's a total upgrade. They seem, well, they're very fancy, they're very nice. They're lightweight, yet they're cozy. They are super soft. They are designed to drape beautifully and sleep cooler than cotton. Keeps your temperature just right without overheating. Cozy Earth purchases are risk free. They have 100 night sleep trial you try them out. If you don't love them, return them. Hassle free. A 10 year warranty. Because once you feel this level of comfort, you want it to last a decade. Thanks to Cozy Earth for sponsoring this episode. Do not miss out on this. These viral PJs are so good they sold out during the holidays. And now they're back with an exclusive deal only available January 25th to February 8th. So you've got four more days. Head to cozyearth.com today. Use our code majority report BOGO to get these PJs for you and someone you love. Or you can get somebody two pairs of PJs and believe me, they will love it.

[Emma Viglund]

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[Sam Cedar]

And now you got bogo. And if you get a post purchase survey, be sure to mention you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Celebrate everyday love with comfort. That makes the little moments count. We'll put the link in the podcast and YouTube description descriptions. Remember, it's majority report BOGO to get.

[Ken Klippenstein]

What is that?

[Sam Cedar]

What does BOGO stand for? Buy one, get one. There you go. So you get one free. Thanks, BOGO. Quick break. When we come back, Ken Klippenstein, independent journalist covering security and US Politics at Clip News on Substack. We are back, Sam Cedar, Emma Viglin on the Majority Report. It is a pleasure to welcome back to the program Ken Klippenstein, independent journalists covering security and US Politics. Eclipse News on substack. And Ken, I feel like we've talked to you multiple times over the course of the past just like month or two because you keep breaking these stories. First off, apparently the feds have figured out who is Commander Zero of Antifa. Tell us. Explain please.

[Ken Klippenstein]

So I was given an intelligence report produced by the Department of Homeland Security that identified a 29 year old young man with an apartment in Portland, Oregon where he was allowing protesters to go and wash off if they'd been pepper sprayed, you know, get some water, use the bathroom, that kind of thing. And in this intelligence report they identified him in very solemn terms as the suspected leader of Antifa. We found him in Portland. And so, you know, I see the guy's name and he just.

[Sam Cedar]

Exactly, okay, sorry, we've got to do that. We're obligated, we're obligated as a news organization to play that whenever it's important.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah, I know it's important. It's funny because I always tell people like when I came into covering national security, I was expecting Jason Bourne and it's like what you've gotten is more Reno911. It's been very, and that's, this is true of that spades because you look at that intelligence report, the picture of the guy, he looks like a composite of just like any random protester in Minneapolis. Just like a guy. And no criminal record, no allegation of crime in the intelligence report. Just the simple fact that he's opening his apartment up to protesters and to media after there was a news cycle, you know, pushed by Fox and conservative influencers calling him this, this leader. He invited the press, local media, just, hey, poke around, here's the apartment, my bookshelf, here's my couch. Looks just like an ordinary apartment. And the guy to his credit, like, he wasn't, he didn't hide anything. He was happy to talk to anyone. He talked to me. And he just finds the whole thing funny and outrageous because he's just a guy.

[Sam Cedar]

But wait a second, did he let any of the reporters who came in to see the bookshelf like pull the book? Because like he pulled the right book, right? And the whole thing opens up Isn't that the way that it works?

[Ken Klippenstein]

I don't know what level of operational security they're on. Presumably it's pretty tight because we've got the entirety of the Federal Government after NSPM 7 focused on these guys. One can only imagine that they're running a pretty tight ship. But I certainly didn't see anything like that.

[Emma Viglund]

Can you just explain though, maybe just back up for a second about Antifa and the nature of like antifa activities? Because it's not a centrally organized group and yet this administration is insisting it's.

[Sam Cedar]

Not really a group.

[Emma Viglund]

Yeah, insisting on trying to find some sort of figurehead to go after the anti fascists, which. What does that make you?

[Sam Cedar]

But.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Right, so the administration, the White House is convinced and you know, the course of my reporting, one of the most alarming things was realizing how much in private they reiterate this stuff and really believe it. It's not just rhetoric. A lot of those guys really think that there is like, you know, after 9 11, the baseball cards mapping out the leadership of Al Qaeda infrastructure. They really believe that stuff. It's not just talk. It's not just Sebastian Gorka. It's not just the more flamboyant elements of the administration, by and large, they really buy this stuff. And so from my conversations with some senior people within Department of Homeland Security, they're stuck in a position where they have to then take that and translate it and implement it. What they see as directives from the democratically elected president, they say, okay, well I've got to find some way to do this legally. And they say that's a big challenge because it's not based in fact that there's some organized group. And so what they've done, as was described to me by people in Homeland Security, is the best they can do is kind of find these guys that maybe like interact with protesters and try to say, well, maybe he posted out support for antifascism at some point. I guess here's maybe something we can do that carries out the directive. But that's really what you're seeing is they're mapping it out just like the US government did. Al Qaeda after 911 and ISIS, it's exactly the same program. And the President has more or less said this directly. He's talked about the enemy within. His senior counterterrorism Director, Sebastian Gorka talks about finding these cells, the language of safe house. I mean this is all national security speak that you would have heard reserved for these foreign terrorist organizations, these Islamist terrorist organizations in the Middle east and now the war has come home.

[Sam Cedar]

There's a couple. I've got a lot of questions about this, so. And I get the idea that there are people like in the political leadership who genuinely believe this stuff. I mean, it's hard to sort of wrap your head around that. But I remember talking to a cop that we had started to interview on the Majority Report, like in the run up to the RNC in 2004 in New York and they were having meetings and they were saying like, you know, they thought there was going to be storm troopers coming in with Molotov cocktails. I mean they were all convinced that this. They were really hyped up. But is there in the context of this, you got the political leadership and they're basically pressuring the DHS apparatus to. They're like, there are antifa out there and there must be leaders. Bring us those. Does that chain of belief break at one point? Like, oh, yeah, okay, so there are people who are just like, it's just my job. I got to find something. And so we got to, we got to, we got to finger somebody.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah. It's almost like sometimes feels like office space because some of these guys at the senior levels are pretty smart. They're not the like field agents that you see like slipping around on the ice and doing all this ridiculous stuff. In Minneapolis there are some smart guys and they kind of, it almost feels like office space where they're like, I've got seven bosses and they want me to do this outrageous thing and so I have to find a legal way to translate this.

[Sam Cedar]

Don't they feel bad about like. Yeah, that's why they're putting this kid on blast. And you know, like, that's why they're leaking.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah, that's why they're leaking. You mean, you know, you could say they should do more and leave. Some have. This stuff isn't publicized. You're not going to advertise that you're leaving if you're at some mid level role that's maybe not quite high enough to merit the attention of the press, but that is happening. Yeah, they do feel bad. That's why they're sharing it. I mean, it's ridiculous. And when you look at this and you hear the rhetoric of there's an invasion and we're going to war, they really are at war. This is how you would conduct a war. You map out the command and control elements. That's why you see the rhetoric being used like safe houses and things. They really are at war in Minneapolis and at major cities across the country on this mistaken belief that there's some kind of insurgent force that we need to fight a counterinsurgency against.

[Sam Cedar]

Now, I know that there are, like, to say networks is maybe a little bit too strong of a word, but people organize around this stuff. I mean, Minneapolis people organizing, they're doing it in small groups and neighborhood groups. I know that there was organizing around when ICE first came to la. You know, people would coordinate, you know, tomorrow mutually. Bill is going to follow the, you know, the agents when they leave the facility and then, etc. Etc. Like, this guy seems like they have nothing. Like, literally seems like.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Like he's not been charged, he's not been convicted of anything.

[Sam Cedar]

His apartment wasn't where it was located. If it had been 10 blocks away, it feels like he would have very little to do with any of this. Maybe, you know, the. It seems like they can't find. Even. Even as most of this is fictionalized, they can't find anything. I mean, there are people. Surely there are people out there who are more militant and organized. Are they, like, pointing at this guy because there is so little there? Like, are we watching some type of undermining of this process by people internal and DHS by sort of pointing to, like, somebody who is clearly not associated with any. With anything like that?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Well, so they're limited by whatever legal architecture allows them to target American citizens, which is more difficult than what you can do to foreigners. So one of the excuses or pretexts they've used to do so is what's called force protection. So once you've deployed isomeware, you have a legal ability to protect them from purported threats. And so basically what they're doing is they're looking at the area because his apartment is right near where an ICE facility is, and they're saying, oh, we've got to map out threats to ICE personnel. And I'm sure they could come up with some examples somewhere of, you know, somebody got a window broken or something and say. And say, oh, actually what we're doing here, we're just mapping out threats. So this is about defending the ICE presence there. But the problem with that is that you have an ICE presence in every state. There's a field office in every state in the country. And in addition to that, they're surging all these resources and getting in situations that predictably result in a civil response, protesters, unrest, that kind of thing. So this. So they've kind of created the conditions under which they can then say, oh, we've got to protect our guys. So that's why we're gonna collect intelligence on these people. And in fact, the Department of Homeland security spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin in a statement responding to a story I had on a watch list that DHS has produced and whether they're adding US citizens to it, she responds, she says we don't keep a watch list. But then in the next sentence is kind of the tell. She says, but we do protect our assets from threats. She says something along those lines. So that's the kind of legal pretext they're using for doing this. Oh, we're not going out after these guys on an offensive basis. We're just protecting the people that we have. But we've sent people everywhere, so now we have to protect them everywhere.

[Sam Cedar]

So that limits the scope in which they like who they can look for. Like, so if, you know, I don't.

[Matt]

Know.

[Sam Cedar]

Black Panther militants are not necessarily threatening ice. They have a harder time sort of like going and harassing those people. So it's almost like whoever's going to be living across the street from this ICE facility, you're going to be target number one. Just because it's literally the low hanging fruit and it has to be low hanging fruit.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah. And Trump, Trump did a major assist in this when he designated for the first time ever a domestic terrorist organization. You can't normally do that against Americans, they citizens because you know, it's supposed to be limited to foreign actors because it strips your civil liberties away to put you on one of these lists because then law enforcement is able to do all these things they can't normally do. And so when he designated antifa domestic terrorist organization, what that does is it allows the national security state to look at someone's apartment like that and say, oh, he's letting people wash off if they've been pepper straight. That's aid and support. That's material support to a terrorist organization. It would never stand up in court, but which is why they haven't brought it to court, I imagine. But it's enough for them administratively, internally and secretly to create these watch lists, which the story was I was trying to give people evidence of. Here's what one of the database entries looks like. Because the DHS spokesperson had pushed back on the idea that there was a watch list. Really she's just disputing that word, calling it that she would call it, oh there's internal protection, blah blah, blah. But I think that's just a euphemism. So anyways, all that to say that's the kind of legal architecture they're relying on for this war.

[Emma Viglund]

Well, they're also. I mean, one, you can. There have been unconfirmed reports, but I just think common sense dictates it that there are provocateurs at some of these demonstrations that clearly have ties to law enforcement. You can go back to Trevor Aronson's reporting from Black lives matter in 2020 when he uncovered an undercover FBI informant that was trying to stoke Colorado Black Lives Matter demonstrations towards violence. I would not be shocked if that is much more widespread given the scope of what the administration's trying to. Trying to do here. It's what makes some of these responses by civilians in these different cities so remarkable is that they've basically given them very little in terms of pretext. So they're resorting to these kind of pathetic tactics, like this.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Pathetic is a really good word for that. And something I want to try to get across, which is that this whole effort, it's Reno911. That doesn't mean that people can't get killed, because when guys are running around with guns with all this insanity, that's obviously dangerous. But, like, it should be understood that both internally, they are collapsing in terms of morale. I've talked to lots of agents that, like, you know, they're not going to join the protesters, but it makes them feel bad what's going on. And it just is having an effect that I don't think is being captured by, a, the media, and B, the administration doesn't want to admit that they're not going to come out and be like, yeah, you guys are causing some problems. So to your point, Emma, I reported on an intelligence document from ICE or detailing Border Patrol support to ICE operations that they have going on secretly. One is to penetrate these things with undercover officers to. To create informants among them. So all that is true, and it gives you a sense of the sprawling character of this. Of this war on the protests and which, you know, is catching people in the crosshairs that resemble a lot of people who work for ice. And because of that, when these protests happen, they feel bad in a way that they might not be inclined to if it's an immigrant who doesn't look like them or if it's somebody you can say, oh, that's not like us. Increasingly, people I talk to, they're like, these guys are crazy Commies, but they have the right to say whatever they want to say, and they don't feel great about that. They're having to enforce this against them. So I think that's a point worth mentioning in the topic.

[Emma Viglund]

So follow up though, really quickly. Do you have a sense of how widespread the perhaps internal resistance to Sam's point earlier about are they offering up this guy because it's so flimsy? And do you have a sense of how widespread the scope is of perhaps like throwing, what do you say, throwing in the gears of a bike or something like that? I'm not mixing metaphors, but I mean, we were seeing it a little with the Epstein files. I think they're, they're, they're, there's almost seemingly like internal obstacles that are being created perhaps by people that are of conscience. To your point?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah, well, they're, they're, they feel trapped. They describe me because it's like if they go rogue, then it's kind of like they become the deep state that Trump has been shrieking about for the last eight years and they feel like, you know, they might not agree with his policy, but he's the elected leader. At the same time, I don't see so much malicious compliance as trying to like, come up with like the least insane way to implement something and then also talking to someone like me about it. That's what the resistance tends to look like. It's definitely not partisan because basically all the guys in these. I have to laugh sometimes when people are like, oh, Ken's just talking to some left wing guy. It's like, there are not really any left wing people in the Department of Homeland Security. So it's not partisan in character and it never will be. But what it is is, you know, just, it's really sincere. They just feel bad and they're going to try to disclose it to the extent that they can because they're always, it's sort of touching how naive they're, they're like, hey, why isn't Congress disclosed some of this stuff? We briefed them on this a year ago. They should know about this. And I'm just like, buddy, it's not really what Congress does. So then they come to me and, yeah, transparency is what the resistance looks like, I think, is trying to disclose these things, cuz they feel like it should be public in the first place.

[Sam Cedar]

I want to get back to Congress because, you know, the guys who are talking to you today may be hauled in front of Congress, you know, come to, you know, a year from today. If the Democrats take control, they may not. So let's talk about this broad sort of theme of like demoralization that's happening within ICE because this is from the perspective of people who are fighting in Minnesota against this and in other places across the country on some level, like this is what's got to have to happen, that there has to be more dissent internally. A lot of these people and probably not necessarily the people that you're talking to. It sounds like the people you're talking to have been more so career type of people in DHS as opposed to somebody who just took this job six weeks ago because they were going to get $50,000 or they thought. But let's look at. I want to go to this Reddit board. People have found where people are complaining about their ICE jobs. It is an unofficial forum for current deportation officers, prospective applicants and retired deportation officers to have a platform for discussion. You know, who knows, I guess there's a certain amount of opsec, I guess, but who knows if these are real. But I. I suspect they are.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Well, I can tell you if it rings true with what because I talked to a lot of people, including some of the newly hired ones. So.

[Sam Cedar]

So yes. All right, so let us know. Health insurance. Been here for about two months, still waiting for my health insurance. Is anyone having that issue as well? I chose BC Blue Cross Blue Shield basic MSS told me they don't know how long it'll take and I have a sick daughter with no insurance. I don't know what MSS is but don't expect much. It's like $6,000. Okay, anybody get the bonus yet? And someone's really don't expect much. It's like six grand after taxes and they put it in a regular paycheck. So you end up paying about 4 and to $5,000 in taxes in one check. And somebody else says didn't even get paid yet for the base check. What else we got, man? Monday is four weeks since I started and I haven't been paid yet. Anything else? We get any more of that or that's it? Does that ring true? Like people are getting delayed? Here's another person currently in ICE ero position waiting for my background to clear. I haven't spoke to an investigator anymore since my interview for the SF86. Came to find out my in laws are illegal and they are awaiting work permits.

[Emma Viglund]

Oh my God.

[Sam Cedar]

This is an F up situation because I cannot control nor is my responsibility to look after other people in life or my decisions. But yeah, I know it F me up in my career because yes, I married my wife, she is a US citizen and bond with the family. But back in 2017 when I met her. You don't ask. Hey, do you have papers? Are your parents here legally? Some BS man. Now I have the job I always wanted. I do what I always dream about. But. There's always a but in this f life. A man which pisses me off. Anyone have a situation like that that seems like a distinct relative to the sort of like administrative issues, but are there a lot of administrative issues that are going on in terms of onboarding these people and getting them paid, et cetera?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's a bureaucratic disaster how it's being run. Tom Holman just today had a press conference where he described how one of the changes they're going to make going forward in the context of this all is like, hey, we're going to be more targeted, we're going to be more care. We're not going to have, you know, all this craziness going on. He all but says that one of the things he mentions is having a unified command because there were multiple commands that these things were being run by. So when you look at someone like Bovino, it was never entirely clear if he was in charge or if Noim was in charge or if Tom Holman's role. Yeah, and I really, I was talking to the guys who had internal access to like their org thing and they themselves don't know who's in charge of what's going on. So it's a total like cluster and it makes sense that that would affect the pay as well. I've heard things like people getting somewhere the hotel wasn't paid for, like they thought it was going to be. You know, I've talked to some of these new recruits. There's a whole spectrum. There are definitely the gung ho types who respond to the memes being posted on Homeland Security and the extremely political language coming out of DHS public affairs. But there's also a lot of frankly, really sad stories that reminds me more than anything of like interviewing people at an Amazon warehouse. Like, really sad stories of guys with like, not very many options and having joined at a time that, I mean, like, we swim in the world of politics, but not everyone does. And it might sound weird, but it's like there are people who join who are just kind of like. I guess I didn't really look into it very much.

[Sam Cedar]

Right.

[Ken Klippenstein]

No, I mean, shocked to.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, it doesn't shock me. I mean, if somebody's dangling that kind of money out there and you've got a kid who, who doesn't have, who needs health care and you think you get and get in. And this is where, you know, at a time we just had the new private hiring numbers come out today. They're incredibly anemic. That, that doesn't seem, I mean, heck, that's what happens with the military consistently, you know, and, and, and, and presumably people have a better sense of that.

[Emma Viglund]

But the amateur ness of it is just shocking in the sense of like, if you're going to pay people to be the modern Gestapo of the United States, perhaps you want to get your ducks in a row a little bit to make sure that the advertised bonuses are actually coming through and that they're paid adequately.

[Sam Cedar]

Is there any report, Ken, of Homan delivering the bonuses in paper bags, maybe in like some type of fast food bag or something like that? Because my understanding is that is the best practices for Tom Homan.

[Ken Klippenstein]

One of the interesting things about this is seeing ICE's law enforcement budget be tripled and when interviewing all these people and thinking particularly the more senior ones are going to be like, yeah, we really have some resources now. Hardly anyone I talked to seemed excited about it. And I asked why and they were like, well, you have to structure it and create systems for it and you can't just like, make it rain. And just like you'd have to create infrastructure to produce new agencies and things. They haven't done that. They're just chaotically like sending people out under basically the same system we had before. To give you just one example, ICE literally in its handbook, has no policy at all. Zero mention of protesters, civil unrest, even rioters. So they're not trained or even have like a concept. You know, they're supposed to be a deportation agency, essentially. And so they've been put on this new mission which places it basically at war with American protesters. But they haven't updated the institution at all to say, here's what you're allowed to do, here's what you're not allowed to do, here's what you should do, here's what we'd like you to do. So they're just flying by the seat of their pants?

[Sam Cedar]

There's no guidance.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah, that's how I would characterize basically everything I've seen. I know it sounds crazy, but to go back to the theme before it really is not some spy thriller movie, it's just total chaos.

[Sam Cedar]

If people, I mean, look, we have four people in this office. And if tomorrow, you know, Minneapolis has gone from 80 ice people on a normal, you know, like a year ago, 80 people stationed there to 3,000.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Right.

[Sam Cedar]

If we had 120 people show up in this office tomorrow for work. It would be total mayhem. We wouldn't. Like, there might be one or two people. I could say, like, okay, do research on this. But the other 118 people would just be standing around. And now we got to feed them. We got to like, you got to take them to the commissary. I mean, it would be very complicated. But is there like. So you. You surged 3,000 ICE agents into Minneapolis. Do they have quotas? Like, how do they even.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah, they do. And that's another thing that I found. Agents resented lots of them because I'm not just talking to the ones who will talk to me or critical. I also, I don't want to get into specifics, but I have access to things that their co workers are saying, like, internally and almost across the board. They resent at least the kind of correspondence I've seen. They resent the quotas because they literally can't reach them. And so what they end up having to do is just like, whip up cases. I'll report this later. But they described writing, like, narratives in arrest reports which are not true, and just lying and saying that this guy admitted to this and knowing that it wasn't true and saying, like, what am I supposed to do, man? Like, we gotta meet all these quotas. Like, I can't even get halfway there. So. So they regard it as, you know, because the quotas are so high and there's no attendant kind of like, here's how you can meet the quotas by doing X, Y and Z. It's just like, go and do it. And there's no. Again, like, yeah, if you had an influx of all these new guys, you'd have to create systems. They haven't created the systems to, to, to reach these quotas in a way that's actually following the rules.

[Sam Cedar]

So are these quotas for, like, how many people you arrest or detain as opposed to, like, you know, it's one.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Thing, it's just arrest and detain, because the legal system, they're just letting them.

[Sam Cedar]

Go and they're just going to shove them through the system. And they don't care what the disposition of those people ultimately are. Well, they don't. They don't. They don't lose their quoted numbers if.

[Ken Klippenstein]

It doesn't go to. Yeah. If it doesn't survive court. And that's another reason for basically, like.

[Sam Cedar]

It'S almost like cold callers, like, here's your 30 leads of the day. And if they don't close any of them. They don't care because they delivered their 30 leads.

[Ken Klippenstein]

That's so that's why. Even the hardcore ones don't like it, because they're saying in messages I've reviewed, they say, okay, well, we got all these guys. It's never going to stand up in court. And then they just go, so what was the point of any of this shit? And so, again, like, the opposition to it is not partisan in character. There are a lot of hardliners that are like, this is not an effective way to increase immigration enforcement.

[Sam Cedar]

I want to play this story about, I guess, an ICE lawyer. I want to get there in a second. But is like, how, how frustrated are they? Like, I mean, where, where are we on this? I mean, if we are 10 months out, I'm speculating here, but let's say Trump and Miller, and ultimately they are, like, hoping to use these guys as a way of, like, inhibiting the vote, Right? And, you know, we saw, we've seen pictures of, like, ICE agents pulling files out of places at times, sort of like being deput, redeputized to do other functions. Like, does anybody have a sense of, like, you know, if this keeps up, I'm. I'm three weeks away from just, you know, walking off the job, or, you know, how much conflict, how much, you know, do people have a sense of, like, there's a breaking point like this, this is a bridge that we wouldn't cross or I wouldn't cross. Have you heard anybody articulate anything like that?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah, definitely. They're very sensitive to the public backlash. You know, like any politician, they want to feel like they're the heroes doing X, Y and Z. And maybe their audience is not like, liberal lefties or anything, but when kind of independent type, people start saying, like, hey, like, this is kind of effed up, man. Like, why did you do that? They care about that. And so, you know, like any institution, it's a continuum. And there are more hardcore people and less hardcore ones. Certainly the young, the incoming freshman class is more hardcore than the senior ones because that's who's responding to the recruitment ads. But I would say that if I were to just give you the average person from all the correspondence I've looked at, I would say that they're starting to say things like, I like President Trump and I voted for him, but this is kind of like a shit show and we have to do something about this. And, and this isn't really like, I want to increase enforcement, but this isn't how you do it. He's starting to lose some of my respect. So I would say it's kind of. If I were to guess what, like a median ICE agent thought it would be something like that. Like. Like qualified skepticism.

[Sam Cedar]

It seems early in the process for them to be that skeptical. And I don't totally.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Because they weren't. They weren't like that. They weren't like that in December. I mean, this is. Yeah. Why?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, let's play this clip because I'm curious. You know, it sounds like your sources are more on the enforcement side rather than the prosecutorial side, but I don't know. But listen to this. That came out of Minnesota. This exchange, apparently, that took place in this courtroom between a nice lawyer and the judges is not nuts. Let's listen. We just need to go halfway through this thing till we get to that. No, no, no. Let's start from the beginning. But. But we don't need to run the whole thing. A stunning admission in federal court today reveals the government is being, in their words, overwhelmed by Operation Metro surge.

[Ken Klippenstein]

A Department of justice attorney told a judge that the federal government system for processing and responding to immigration cases, quote, sucks. Fox 9 investigator Paul Bloom was in the courtroom. He joins us now live. And, Paul, this attorney appeared emotional as she tried to explain why ICE is repeatedly violating court orders.

[Paul Bloom]

Simone and Randy, one ICE attorney said the agency simply was not prepared to argue all these cases in federal court and that the U.S. attorney's office is now working around the clock to comply with judicial orders and to make sure people wrongfully detained are actually released. Our cameras rolling on Tuesday as Department of justice attorney Julie Lee arrived with colleague Anna Voss for a hearing in federal district court. Lee, an ICE attorney who typically works in immigration court, volunteered for the U.S. attorney's office last month. She said in court, quote, I am here to make sure the agency, meaning ice, understands how important it is to comply with court orders. Likening it to, quote, pulling teeth, she admitted the Department of Justice provided no guidance or direction in navigating the legal and constitutional side of the immigration crackdown when she first started in that new role. At one point, she told the judge, quote, I wish you would just hold me in contempt so I can get 24 hours of sleep. Lee was ordered into court by US District Judge Jerry Blackwell.

[Emma Viglund]

Keep going.

[Paul Bloom]

Blackwell is frustrated with ICE ignoring or not complying with his court orders for the immediate release of several immigrants swept up during Operation Metro surge. Blackwell pressed Lee hard for answers as to why it can take the government just hours to ship out a detained immigrant with no criminal record from the Whipple Federal building to far off detention centers, yet it can take them up to 13 days to bring them back when the court orders their immediate release. The Fox 9 Investigators have reported extensively on the unprecedented.

[Sam Cedar]

There's a couple of things on this, obviously, like that attorney, I mean, there's two different stories going on here. One is that the fact is that ICE and the federal government is beginning to ignore more and more of these court orders and the judges, we saw this with that contempt, I don't know, a couple of weeks, like a week or two ago, when he was like forcing lions to come in and then sort of backtrack. The court does not want a constitutional crisis to come to a head, and you certainly don't want it. If you're one of these lower courts, you're nervous. And so they back off and they sort of like, are giving as much latitude as possible to ICE because they don't want a conflict to show up because then it becomes like, you know, like a legitimate constitutional crisis. And I don't think any judge, particularly these subsidiary courts, wants to deal with that. But it's also like, all of these attorneys have, there's a ton that have quit, like, like up to a dozen, I think, in Minnesota, maybe more. And this woman's in there saying, like, I'm a compliance officer. I'm trying to tell ICE that you gotta follow what the court is saying. And this is where all those ICE agents are shoving all of their quota detainees into this system that is not built to deal with that level of, like, randomness in who they're picking up. What do you hear on that side of things?

[Ken Klippenstein]

What that attorney said is completely consistent with the vibe that I get from particularly more experienced people within ICE and Homeland Security. And I have talked to attorneys within Homeland Security as well. They're also like, in cardiac arrest. Ever having to send out all this compliance stuff in anticipation of the comeuppance that's going to happen when the majorities in Congress have changed to the Democrats. So this is certainly at the front of their mind. Exhaustion is a word I would use to describe a lot of what I've seen. I got a call from an ERO officer who had just joined a new recruit, and it was like, at 11pm he's like, man, you got to tell people, I'm not getting any sleep. It's a matter of time until something disastrous happened because everybody's running on fumes. And like, I have so many stories just like that so when I saw that story about the attorney and I saw the response to it, I thought, oh, that's interesting. People don't realize how much. In part because the press doesn't talk to them, but also because people are afraid to talk to the media. But I was surprised by how little known this fact is because I hear so much despair from people that are like, you know, we've gone to all these protests. What difference is it making? Because they don't have that inside look, and I wish they did. And to the extent that I can try to give it to them in their reporting that I'm doing is show them like, no, like, these guys are, like, completely running out of energy. And to the extent that they even believe in it, you know, I don't see how much longer this can go.

[Sam Cedar]

Because, well, okay, so let me ask you this. What does that mean when an ICE attorney or somebody within the context DHS says, like, people don't realize, like, we're stretched so thin, we're gonna break. Does anybody have a sense of what happens when they break? Because it can go one of two ways. It can seem to me like, okay, we have exhausted our ability to send lawyers into federal courts and to keep up with what the federal courts are demanding as much as they have backed off and tried to give us latitude, like, there's only so much latitude they can give. Does ICE at that point say, okay, we're done pretending. We're not going to follow any of these. We're not even going to show up for the court cases anymore because we're done with that. We don't have the ability to pretend like we're going to comply. And so now we're shifting our energy to just not expending any energy on pretending we're complying.

[Ken Klippenstein]

So here's what I've seen already. They'll get the reports where they have to tell Washington that we're, you know, meeting X, Y and Z priority or whatever that they want. And they're getting to the point where they're just, like, effort. I'm going to write whatever. Here you go. We did it, boss. And they just don't do it. So to give you one example, I saw a chat where there were experienced Border Patrol agents talking about meeting quotas. And they had come up with a system where since this is a task force, you'll see it's like ice, Customs and Border Protection, maybe Federal Protective Services, all these different DHS sub agencies, Homeland Security Investigations. It's really quite an army. They've Built up. But they will all record one arrest as one arrest for each of the constituent parts of the. Of the task force. And in so doing, they're inflating the numbers by like orders of magnitude so that they can go to Washington. And in the chats, they openly know that this is happening, know they're doing it. And the reason they feel okay with it is because it's like, well, they've asked us to do something impossible, so we're just going to say, whatever, here you go, boss, we did it. And their conclusion was these numbers must be wildly inflated. When the admin says we've removed or we've done all of this, look at all the stuff we've done. Because this is happening on a systemic basis where they're filing things that they know to be inaccurate because they're just like, well, they're not going to listen to us. I'm not going to care about whether this is true or not.

[Sam Cedar]

So everybody, all these different agencies are taking credit for the same arrest.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

And so one arrest could be like 12 different arrests. Literally.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Like, like they could say, oh, we had eight arrests and that's all. Eight of those is referring to one individual.

[Emma Viglund]

Yeah.

[Ken Klippenstein]

And then they add it all up, pretending like it was separate arrests. That's just. This is one example, Sam. Like, they're doubtless doing this in all kinds of different ways.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, this is, you know, this is so important for, I think protesters, for people who are resisting understand, because this is a war of attrition.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Totally.

[Sam Cedar]

And just from my experience in watching Survivor on CBS is the. No, but you, like, when one player sees another player getting tired, they can last longer. And people should know the ice people are getting tired. And you know, this is going to be a long haul for 10 months between now and then. But like, it is very helpful to see that they're breaking in many ways more than the protesters are.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Totally.

[Sam Cedar]

Ken Klippenstein. The substack is called Clip News and we'll put a link to that at Majority FM and our podcast and YouTube descriptions. Thanks so much for your time today.

[Emma Viglund]

Thanks, Ken.

[Sam Cedar]

Really great work. Really, really important, essential reporting. And stay safe. Like I would.

[Emma Viglund]

Are you going to be the next leader of Antifa? I mean.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Well, I'll see if they. If they have any district level opportunities here. I don't know how they're.

[Matt]

Do you have a backstory?

[Ken Klippenstein]

I don't know how far I am from the local. I.

[Sam Cedar]

This is a good thing that occurred to me too. It's like, what if that guy, instead of letting people come in and use his bathroom and wash up, charge them like a buck, like a buck per person, then all of a sudden just becomes a business.

[Emma Viglund]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

And it's no affiliate. I'm not doing it for free. It's just, you know, like selling, I don't know, free market drinks at a, at a ball game or something.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah, that's what was wild. When you watch the interviews of him, he doesn't seem like one of these kind of anarchist minded. Like he, it seemed like a decency thing to him. Like he felt bad for these guys getting pepper sprayed. No, you can use my bathroom. No big deal. Like that's what's so effed up about it. It's like they're, they're, you know, criminalizing, just being nice, basically.

[Emma Viglund]

Decency is terrorism under Trump.

[Sam Cedar]

And but to be clear, this leader of Antifa has not been charged with anything, right?

[Ken Klippenstein]

No.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, does he go, is he going around like, like people like waving to him in the neighborhood? I mean, he must he have some acclaim and fame now or.

[Ken Klippenstein]

He seems well liked. Yeah, he just seems like a nice guy.

[Emma Viglund]

I don't know.

[Sam Cedar]

People do not, they don't, they do not cross him either. Right. Ken, thanks so much for your time today. Really appreciate it.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Thanks, guys.

[Emma Viglund]

Thanks, Ken.

[Sam Cedar]

All right, folks, I know I shouldn't have done that Survivor thing, but it was the only example I could.

[Emma Viglund]

No, it was a great example.

[Sam Cedar]

People like, watch like.

[Emma Viglund]

But why did you say cbs? I mean, that's what I was confused by.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I just wanted, you know, the plug Barry Weiss, like, to know what I was talking about. But like that, you know, you see like people standing on like a stump and their feet get it, but they look over and they see the other person shaking.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Like it's like when a boxer sees blood.

[Sam Cedar]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Cole from Little Rock wants my opinions on the Survivor 50 casting. I'm not gonna, I don't, I'm not a critic in that respect.

[Emma Viglund]

You should watch Traders. They have a bunch of Survivor alums on there.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't care about the people that much. I just admit, like, it's a fun game.

[Emma Viglund]

It's like, you know, it's like Murder.

[Sam Cedar]

She don't want to support Michael Rappaport any.

[Emma Viglund]

Oh, my God. Well, that's why I delayed watching this season. I had delayed watching the season because he's on it, but I just started it. No, he's a contestant.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay.

[Emma Viglund]

And I've heard that I was assured by a friend of mine That I don't have to endure him for that long. And that's the only reason I started this.

[Matt]

Spoiler alert.

[Emma Viglund]

He's also hated in the house and completely unlikable. Shocker.

[Ken Klippenstein]

It went viral for how he eats in the show.

[Emma Viglund]

I haven't gotten to that point yet, but I was very upset he wasn't eliminated on that.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Brings the plate up to his face.

[Sam Cedar]

And he shovels the food into his mouth.

[Emma Viglund]

But you would like that as a reality show. They bring in the Big Brother and the Survivor people, plus some reality TV people, plus some weird celebrities like Michael Rapport. And they all. That. They all. It's like a murder mystery.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. That's not. I don't like the. That's not the part that I like.

[Emma Viglund]

I don't know why I try to introduce you to new things. You've been watching Survivor for 25 years and that's basically it, right?

[Sam Cedar]

Is it really? It's been 25 years.

[Emma Viglund]

Gotta be, right?

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Oh, geez.

[Matt]

Quarter century of Survivor.

[Sam Cedar]

It's comforting. That is one of the most depressing things I think I've heard in a long time. Time.

[Emma Viglund]

Is Survivor older than American Idol?

[Sam Cedar]

I don't think I'm gonna recover from that. Put it in those terms. Quarter century, Jeez. Lasted longer than my marriage, folks.

[Emma Viglund]

More fulfilling. Sorry.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm joking.

[Emma Viglund]

Some shows are that good.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Folks.

[Sam Cedar]

It's your support that makes the show possible. You can become a member of jointhemajorport.com when you do, you not only get the free show free of commercials, you also get the fun half. And you can IM us. You can keep this show surviving and thriving. Join the MajorityReport.com Also Just Coffee Co op. Fair trade coffee. Use the coupon code. Majority get 10% off. Great coffee. Great co op. They really look out for their suppliers. They got the majority report blend. You can get that. It's a great conversation starter when you have people over. What's with this coffee? Oh, the majority report, blah, blah, blah. That type of thing. Just explain. Let's say it's great conversation, but sometimes you get to start small. That's what it's like at my house. That's why nobody comes home.

[Matt]

I was like, you know, this coffee. It's actually sponsors the show that I work.

[Sam Cedar]

Just you at a table with all your dolls. Saul's heard this line so many times. He's just like, yeah, I get it, I get it. The coffee.

[Matt]

And this is the Dennis Miller doll.

[Donald Trump]

Hey.

[Sam Cedar]

Also we have the coffee. Chapo.

[Emma Viglund]

We have to be nice to Sam for the rest of the show because now I feel bad about my joke. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Also am quickie am quickie.com you want to keep up with the news. Amquickie.com three days a week for free, five days a week for a couple of bucks a month. And you can get all the news that you need at 9am it's emailed to you. It's a quick read. Whitney and Corey do great work every day. Whitney's like just destroying it over at the Prospect right now. So check it out every day. Am quickie.com Also, we got a big discord. I don't know how many people we have in there now. Like probably like close to 20,000. Majority discord.com also emma oh yes, thank.

[Emma Viglund]

You for the reminder. I should have been on top of this more than I was. But I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm mad at myself for not being more like abreast of New Jersey politics. But tomorrow is a really important primary election in New Jersey. Right by where I grew up, there is an aoc, wfp, Bernie Warren endorsed candidate. Also Ross Baraka, who is the progressive choice in the governor's race, who overperformed, has also endorsed this candidate, Analilia Mejia, I hope I'm saying that correctly. She's running in North Jersey. She's basically the consensus progressive choice. It's a really crowded field. New Jersey's 11th district is Essex County. My old stomping grounds, Passaic and Morris as well. This is Mikey Sherrill's old seat now that she is the governor of New Jersey tomorrow. Part of why I was thrown off by this Thursday when do you have a special election voting on a Thursday is the, is the primary race. And you'll recall that if you were in New Jersey there part of why Andy Kim won that race and you had the success of a more progressive candidate in Jersey City is because there was a successful fight in part led by the Working Families Party to change the county balloting process where the there was like basically, you know, party committees that would decide on a specific candidate, usually a centrist establishment candidate, and would put it in a privileged column with like that resulted in and there were studies of this like really benefiting essentially undemocratically who the party committees were picking. That has gone away here. This is a part of this new kind of refangled primary process in New Jersey. And so it would be really, really cool to have a progressive represent a deep blue district in North Jersey. There's a Lot of wealthy people there, for sure. But it's also quite a diverse district. So the candidate is named Analia Mejia. So if you're in New Jersey, go out tomorrow and vote for her.

[Matt]

How do you spell that? Mejia.

[Emma Viglund]

M, E, J, I, A. Matt.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yesterday on Left Reckoning, we got into the highs and lows of Texas politics, from the Taylor Ramit victory in Fort Worth to the Colin Allred stunt that actually seemed to have backfired pretty severely. That seems to be pretty unanimous consent that Allred was weird for doing that and Crockett was unwise and maybe turned off some people who might endorse Talarico now. So we get into that and also talk with Ben Fong and Paul Prescott about a book they did on Bayard Rustin speeches, which is a very interesting resource with a lot of relevance to today.

[Sam Cedar]

I just want to read this one. I am Zane. I may be tired by all this ice as well, but my resolve is endless because I'm not doing this as a job. I'm defending my city, my neighbors, and my values. I have unfortunately been sidelined for a week or so while I'm in surgery to remove some cancer from my lungs. To any of the Mr. Listeners in Minneapolis, do me a solid and if you run into ICE this weekend, throw in an extra fuck you, pig for me, Zane. Hope you have a speedy and healthy recovery. And thanks. So, folks, throw an extra F you at some of these ice pigs on behalf of Zane. And you may want to say this is on behalf of Zane in a polite way. See you in the fun half three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months from now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're going to look back and go like, wow.

[Ken Klippenstein]

What?

[Sam Cedar]

What is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second. Hold on. Hold on for a second. Emma. Welcome to the program. Matt. Boo. Fun. What is up, everyone? Fun hack.

[Paul Bloom]

No M. You did it.

[Sam Cedar]

Fun Hack.

[Emma Viglund]

Let's go, Brandon.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's go, Brandon. Fun Crap. Bradley, you want to say hello? Sorry to disappoint everyone. I'm just a random guy.

[Ken Klippenstein]

It's all the boys today.

[Emma Viglund]

Fundamentally false. No. I'm sorry.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Women.

[Sam Cedar]

Stop talking for a second.

[Emma Viglund]

Let me finish. Where is this coming from, dude?

[Sam Cedar]

But. Dude, you want to smoke this?

[Emma Viglund]

7A yes.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Hi, me.

[Donald Trump]

You sink.

[Sam Cedar]

Yes. Is this me?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Is it me?

[Sam Cedar]

It is you. If it's me.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Oh, that's me.

[Sam Cedar]

I think it is you. Who is you. No sound. Every single freaking day. What's on your mind?

[Ken Klippenstein]

We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm gonna go Skyline Libertarians.

[Matt]

They're so stupid. Though.

[Sam Cedar]

Common sense says of course.

[Emma Viglund]

Gobbledygook.

[Sam Cedar]

We fucking nailed him.

[Emma Viglund]

So what's 79 plus 21?

[Sam Cedar]

Challenge.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Matt, I'm positively quivering.

[Sam Cedar]

I believe 96. I want to say. 8, 5, 7, 2, 1 0, 35, 5 0, 11 half. 3, 8, 9, 11.

[Matt]

For instance.

[Emma Viglund]

$3,400. $1,900. 5, 4.

[Sam Cedar]

$3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game.

[Emma Viglund]

Actually. You're making me think less if you.

[Sam Cedar]

But, but let me say this. You call it satire, Sam goes satire on top of it all. My favorite part about you is just.

[Emma Viglund]

Like every day, all day, like everything you do.

[Sam Cedar]

Without a doubt. Hey, buddy. We seen you. All right, folks, folks, folks.

[Emma Viglund]

It's just the week being weeded out. Obviously.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. Sundown. Guns out. I, I, I don't know.

[Emma Viglund]

But you should know.

[Sam Cedar]

People just don't like to entertain ideas anymore. I have a question. Who cares?

[Matt]

Our chat is enabled, folks.

[Sam Cedar]

I love it.

[Emma Viglund]

I do love that.

[Sam Cedar]

Gotta jump.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Gotta be quick.

[Sam Cedar]

I gotta jump. I'm losing it, bro. Two o', clock, we're already late and the guy's being a dick. So screw him. Sent to a gulag.

[Emma Viglund]

Outrageous.

[Sam Cedar]

Like, what is wrong with you?

[Matt]

Love you.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Bye.

[Sam Cedar]

Love you.

[Emma Viglund]

Bye.

[Sam Cedar]

Bye.