The Majority Report With Sam Seder

Episode 3579 – The New Economic Nationalism; AI Bubble Already Bursting?

Date: September 11, 2025
Host: Emma Vigeland (in for Sam Seder)
Guests: Dr. Jostein Haga (political economist), Ed Zitron (tech writer & podcaster)

Episode Overview

This episode features two deep-dive interviews:

1. Jostein Haga discusses the global resurgence of economic nationalism and how industrial policy, particularly in China, is reshaping the U.S. and European responses, with cascading effects for the rest of the world.
2. Ed Zitron offers a critical look at the AI industry, warning that the speculative bubble around AI—especially generative AI—may be on the edge of bursting.

The hosts also provide real-time analysis of breaking news, including the political assassination of right-wing activist Charlie Kirk, gun violence in the U.S., political fallout, and the state of U.S. law enforcement under Trump.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking News: The Assassination of Charlie Kirk

• Context: Right-wing media figure Charlie Kirk was assassinated during a Utah college event, drawing immediate political responses before any facts emerged about the perpetrator.
• Gun Violence: Vigeland and Bender emphasize the United States’ unique policies on gun access as fundamentally enabling both random and targeted political shootings.
  • “Anybody that's talking about this story outside of the context of the insane amount of guns and the lethal guns that we have in this country... is doing a disservice to the truth.” (Emma Vigeland, 05:39)
• Moral Complexity: While acknowledging Kirk’s harmful rhetoric and activity (anti-trans, pro-January 6th), Vigeland re-centers the conversation on empathy, despite ideological divides.
• Escalating Political Violence: The episode references data showing a doubling of political violence compared to the previous year (Reuters) and notes the lapse of the assault weapons ban as pivotal.
• Media & Political Reactions: Trump immediately blames the “radical left” for rhetoric fueling violence (13:22), while the hosts highlight the lack of evidence and broader trends showing a predominance of right-wing violence in the U.S.
  • “Right wing extremists are responsible for the great majority of extremist related murders. 75%.” (Emma Vigeland, referencing ADL data, 16:02)

Notable Segment

Zoran Montani's Statement [17:39]:
A model for leadership in tragedy—Montani refuses to politicize Kirk’s murder, focusing instead on shared humanity and the epidemic of gun violence:

“It cannot be a question of political agreement or alignment that allows us to mourn. It must be the shared notion of humanity that binds us all.”
—Zoran Montani (17:39)

2. U.S. Institutional Chaos & the State of the FBI

• Contemporary Corruption and Incompetence: Cash Patel, a former podcaster heading the FBI, tweeted misinformation about the shooting suspect—an emblem of political cronyism and incompetence under Trump.
  • “This is what you get when you get a podcaster as the head of the FBI.” (Emma Vigeland, 02:13)
• Epstein Files & Political Retaliation: Simultaneous suits by former FBI officials over “political retaliation,” as well as Congressional drama over releasing the “Epstein files,” are emblematic of a politicized, dysfunctional law enforcement apparatus.

3. Interview: Dr. Jostein Haga on Economic Nationalism ([26:43–52:43])

The New Economic Nationalism

• Definition:
  • “Economic nationalism... is the drive to develop the national and domestic economy... prioritizing economic sovereignty and the development of the sovereign state.” (Haga, 28:00)
• The Shift From Neoliberalism:
  • Reaction to the failures of global free trade, the disruptive shock of COVID-19 (exposed supply chain vulnerabilities), and—centrally—the meteoric rise of China as a manufacturing and technological superpower.
  • “Rich countries simply are realizing that free trade aren't benefiting them as much as it used to.” (Haga, 29:01)
• Comparison: U.S., China, European Union
  • China: Long-standing state-led industrial policy, now turning to self-reliance in advanced sectors like semiconductors and clean energy.
  • U.S.: Turn to tariffs, especially under Trump (“sweeping tariffs everywhere”) and to a lesser extent, Biden (“more focus on subsidies and maybe more strategic tariffs”).
    • “There doesn’t seem to be as much of a strong rationale behind Trump’s tariffs. He even puts tariffs on his allies.” (Haga, 32:17)
  • Europe: More cautious, balancing autonomy and “strategic openness,” but beginning to invest more aggressively in military and industrial capacity (e.g. Rearm Europe project).
• U.S.–China “New Cold War”?
  • The “new Cold War” framing oversimplifies; U.S. and China are deeply economically intertwined, unlike the U.S. and USSR.
  • “There are some interesting things to take from this branding... but the U.S. and China are highly economically interdependent.” (Haga, 34:37)
• China’s State Capitalism:
  • “State controls the direction of credit, the direction of investment...” (Haga, 43:55)
  • The U.S. private sector cannot replicate China’s decisive, long-term national planning.
• Impacts on Developing Countries:
  • Powerful countries engaging in economic nationalism “benefits those countries that have deeper government coffers.”
  • Silver lining: China’s rise enables more beneficial deals and infrastructure investment for developing nations, increases “South-South cooperation,” and moves toward a more multipolar world.
  • “The world is complicated... If India and China can resolve their differences... move towards an international order where power is more broadly distributed, that I think is unambiguously good.” (Haga, 51:23)

Notable Quotes

• On Empathy and Political Violence:
  • “The best antidote to this moment right now of fascism, nihilism, casino capitalism, violence, genocide... is empathy.” (Vigeland, 07:21)
• China’s Unexpected Ascent:
  • “The pace at which China has developed entire supply chains domestically... surprised many people.” (Haga, 40:47)
• Developing Countries’ View of China:
  • “79% of countries around the world have a more positive view of China than of the United States... [China focuses] on infrastructure investment... and respects the sovereignty of these countries more so than the U.S. has done.” (Haga, 47:06)

4. Interview: Ed Zitron on The AI Speculative Bubble ([54:15–75:34])

The AI Bubble: Built on Hype and Unstable Economics

• Oracle/OpenAI Episode as Symptom:
  • Oracle claimed $317 billion in new revenue, $300B of which is from OpenAI—a company “that loses billions of dollars a year and has never had more than $16B in the bank.” (Zitron, 55:01)
  • “They will not have the money [to pay for this compute]; there is literally not enough venture capital to fund this.” (Zitron, 56:51)
• Venture Capital and Business Model Issues:
  • "If OpenAI cannot go public, they turn into a functional Ponzi scheme." (Zitron, 56:51)
  • Even the infrastructure providers (themselves massive, like Microsoft/Amazon) are making little to no profit on AI compute.
• AI Product Disillusionment:
  • Real-world enterprise usages of generative AI are not delivering returns. “95% of generative AI integrations have 0% return on investment.”
    —MIT study (cited by Zitron, 64:46)
  • “These products cannot learn... they do not have human thinking, they are just probabilistic models.” (Zitron, 64:46)
• Tech Bubble Distinct from Uber/Amazon:
  • Unlike Uber, which burnt capital but ultimately created a service with a path to profitability, generative AI is “taking on the burden of classical industrialization without any path out.” (Zitron, 62:08)
  • “It would be like if Uber's cars ran on giraffe blood, and you had to blow them up at the end of every ride.” (Zitron, dramatizing risks, 63:33)
• Wall Street’s AI Frenzy—Nvidia and Oracle:
  • Nvidia is currently “the only company making real profit from this” but the growth expectations are unsustainable (67:34).
  • If Nvidia’s growth slows, the house of cards wobbles; Oracle is at especially high risk because of risky bets on AI income that may never materialize.
• Potential for Collapse:
  • “This will end because OpenAI will probably die. And once that happens everything else falls apart.” (Zitron, 55:01)
  • “This boom has come from building capacity for a revolution that never even started arriving.” (Zitron, 74:06)
  • Retail investors are at risk of being left “holding the bag.”
• Big Tech Will Survive:
  • “None of these big tech companies are dying... there will be no government bailout. There's nothing to bail out.”

AI Reality Check:

• Despite immense investments and hype, generative AI hasn’t found significant real-world applications or revenue. AI adoption (in business) is actually declining, not surging.
• “We still don’t have any tangible examples of anyone doing anything interesting or large-scale disruptive [with generative AI].” (Zitron, 64:46)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It must be the shared notion of humanity that binds us all... this is not just about the murder of a prominent political figure, but of a wife who grieves her husband, of children who will grow up without a father.”
  —Zoran Montani (17:39), on Kirk’s assassination
• “China is advancing rapidly with artificial intelligence... more and more people are saying that US trade policy against China is backfiring.”
  —Jostein Haga (42:56)
• “This crap don't work. It's not that useful. These people going on podcasts saying it's going to do this... it's fantastical, ridiculous, and ultimately dangerous.”
  —Ed Zitron (59:09)
• “Retail investors... are going to invest heavily in Nvidia, heavily in Oracle and get their asses kicked when this falls apart.”
  —Ed Zitron (73:53)

Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–02:11: Show introduction, breaking headlines
• 02:11–19:46: Analysis of Charlie Kirk’s assassination, U.S. gun culture, Trump/FBI response, domestic violence statistics
• 19:46–26:43: Zoran Montani on political leadership and gun violence; segment wrap-up
• 26:43–52:43: Dr. Jostein Haga interview (economic nationalism, U.S./China/EU, impacts on developing countries)
• 52:45–54:15: Brief ad break / transition
• 54:15–75:34: Ed Zitron interview (AI bubble, tech economics, business models, and market dynamics)
• 75:34–end: Fun half / listener engagement (calls, live chat), show wrap-up

Tone and Style

The conversation is irreverent, passionate, and intellectually rigorous, blending sharp political commentary with genuine empathy amid tragedy, and clear-eyed skepticism toward media and business hype.

Summary

This episode delivers a dual critique of American political culture and global economics:

• It chronicles the human and political costs of America’s failed gun policies and rising political polarization, refusing to sanitize the real-world toll of partisanship and violence.
• The interviews with Jostein Haga and Ed Zitron provide an accessible but rigorous examination of two major trends: the global retreat from neoliberalism (with China’s rise as the key driver) and the likely bursting of the speculative AI bubble, set off by unsustainable economics and tech hype.

Listeners leave better informed about not just breaking news, but about the long-term, systemic forces shaping the world’s economic and technological future.