3584 - Epstein Dominos Begin to Fall; Inside Idaho's Far-Right Hotbed w/ Michael Edison Hayden

Summary

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The Majority Report with Sam Seder: Episode 3584

Epstein Dominos Begin to Fall; Inside Idaho's Far-Right Hotbed w/ Michael Edison Hayden
Aired: February 19, 2026 | Guest: Michael Edison Hayden

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Episode Overview

On this Thursday's edition of The Majority Report, Emma Vigeland (hosting for Sam Seder) dives into two major political stories shaking the U.S. and abroad. First, the hosts break down the latest accountability moves in the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, highlighting powerful individuals entangled in the fallout, including Prince Andrew’s historic arrest. The second half of the show features investigative journalist Michael Edison Hayden to discuss the rise, deep roots, and current tactics of the far-right and neo-Nazi movement in Northern Idaho—described as a "laboratory" for extremist politics. The conversation details both the decades-long history and recent alarming developments in the region.

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Key Topics & Segments

I. Epstein Fallout & the Global Push for Accountability

1. Developments in the Epstein Network

• Historic Arrest:

  • Former Prince Andrew is arrested in the UK for misconduct related to the Epstein case—the first royal arrest since 1647.

    "This is the first arrest of a royal since 1647, when Charles the First was arrested during the English Civil War."
    — Emma Vigeland (05:19)

• Les Wexner's Testimony & Role:

  • Billionaire Les Wexner, a longtime Epstein associate, is named as a co-conspirator in the files, with his name improperly redacted by the DOJ.
  • Wexner testifies to Congress via video, portraying himself as Epstein's victim, claiming to have been duped, despite longstanding close ties and deep financial entanglement.

    "Epstein managed Wexner's personal finances for over a decade."
    — Emma Vigeland (07:33)

  • Rep. Robert Garcia bluntly outlines the financial and logistical support Wexner provided to Epstein.

    "There would be no Epstein island, there'd be no Epstein plane, there'd be no money to traffic women and girls. Mr. Epstein would not be the wealthy man he was without the support of Les Wexner."
    — Rep. Robert Garcia (09:11)

• Other U.S. Figures Affected:

  • Matt Binder and Emma note others facing minor or voluntary repercussions (such as Larry Summers stepping down from Harvard), lamenting the lack of criminal accountability, and denouncing American institutions' reliance on market-driven consequences instead of real justice.

    "It really is an example of the rot of American society that the impulse is to just let the market decide what the punishment is... These people need to be actually put through a court process."
    — Emma Vigeland (04:39) "There is a time that the state needs to kick people's doors down and gather evidence in their residences. And we're way beyond that for this Epstein class."
    — Matt Binder (05:08)

• Illicit Redactions & More Incriminating Files:

  • Illegal redactions protected billionaires (e.g., Wexner, Leon Black), while the DOJ left identifiable victims’ information unredacted—an intimidation tactic, not an accident.

    "The point is that they were very intentional in protecting the people illegally with those redactions... specifically to scare the victims, intentionally left their identifying information in there, including for victims who hadn't come forward publicly."
    — Emma Vigeland (18:15)

• Accusations Against Donald Trump:

  • Ted Lieu urges the press to investigate the disturbing allegations against Donald Trump present in the Epstein files, emphasizing that, legally, patrons of Epstein’s trafficking parties could be criminally liable.

    "In those files, there’s highly disturbing allegations of Donald Trump raping children, of Donald Trump threatening to kill children... If you show up and patronize the establishment at that party, yes, you’re guilty because patronizing is part of the law, the federal sex trafficking law."
    — Rep. Ted Lieu (14:24)

2. Notable Quotes & Context

• On Billionaire Accountability:

  "Billionaires should not exist. Because, again, like, the best case scenario here is they are lunatics that will turn over power of attorney to a major sex trafficking conspiracy like intelligence operative."
  — Matt Binder (12:37)

• On Market Versus Justice:

  "You lose your job. That’s not what the justice system is. These people need to be actually put through a court process and tried for their alleged criminality because that's what justice actually is."
  — Emma Vigeland (04:39)

Key Segment Timings

• Wexner/DOJ Redactions: 07:09–12:37
• Prince Andrew arrest: 05:19–05:58
• Ted Lieu on Trump/DOJ: 14:24–16:22

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II. Interview: Michael Edison Hayden on Idaho's Far-Right Hotbed

1. The Viral Incident & Enforcing Authoritarianism

• The show begins the segment with footage from a 2025 Republican town hall where a woman is forcibly removed by a private security group (Lear Asset Management), illustrating the normalization and empowerment of private, quasi-paramilitary force in local politics.

  "Not knowing who is messing with you here—that had resonance throughout 2025 and into 2026... This secrecy coming from the sort of fascist right..."
  — Michael Edison Hayden (26:08)

• The security company, deeply enmeshed with the far-right Kootenai County Republican Central Committee (KCRCC), and the county sheriff’s office, serve as enforcers for an increasingly extremist local party infrastructure.

2. History of Far-Right & White Nationalism in Idaho

• Idaho’s far-right roots date to the 1970s and 80s, when Aryan Nations leaders set up communities in the state.
• There was a lull after lawsuits following violence, but the COVID pandemic reignited recruitment and radicalization, especially as out-of-state extremists moved to Idaho, seeking a “white homeland.”

  "There was a brief period... in which extremism was always there... but people believed it was sort of under control. And it wasn’t until the pandemic... when it started to really grow."
  — Michael Edison Hayden (36:10)

3. The "Laboratory" of Far-Right Politics

• Emma draws a parallel between progressive laboratories like NYC and northern Idaho as a test bed for far-right strategies.
• Over the past decade, a Nazi or white nationalist faction has completely overtaken the regional Republican Party (KCRCC), formalizing white supremacist politics in local government operations.

4. Recent Players & Incidents

• Martin Sellner & Brittany Pettibone:

  • Sellner, European white nationalist (linked to the Christchurch shooter), attempted to settle and marry in Idaho, drawing support from local Republicans despite his notoriety.

• Dave Riley:

  • Far-right activist, Fuentes supporter, openly anti-Semitic, representing a new wave of neo-fascist “Catholic nationalist” organizing in the region. Hayden recounts his personal meeting with Riley, who openly blames “the Jews” for all problems and actively exploits pro-Palestine activism for anti-Semitic purposes.

    "Everything goes back to Jews and he is under the belief... he can really make inroads around that."
    — Michael Edison Hayden (45:51)

• Conflict Within the Far Right:

  • There’s ongoing tension between anti-Semitic nationalists (Riley’s circle) and far-right Christian Zionists, like those at Candlelight Church, who display large Israeli flags on stage and pray for figures like Justice Alito.

    "It is this conflict between sort of fellow Semitic, far right philosophy, far right church, and like a kind of anti-Semitic activism..."
    — Michael Edison Hayden (48:40)

5. National Implications & MAGA Fractures

• Idaho’s events exemplify trends elsewhere—masked paramilitary groups, Proud Boys’ migration to law enforcement, and the assimilation of extremist tactics into mainstream GOP politics.
• The national MAGA base is showing fracturing at the margins, particularly as the Epstein revelations implicate Donald Trump and heighten accusations of elite impunity and coverup, sparking some disaffection even among true believers.

  "The core remains unmoved, but we are seeing like a little bit of... the edges start to fade a little bit. That is kind of like what's happening, I think, a little bit."
  — Michael Edison Hayden (52:27)

Key Segment Timings

• Idaho far right overview: 23:19–34:05
• Neo-Nazi history: 34:05–38:23
• Sellner/Pettibone: 38:23–42:27
• Dave Riley/inter-church conflict: 45:15–50:06
• Idaho as national case study / MAGA rifts: 51:52–57:16

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III. Additional Topics & Memorable Moments

• The Israeli Prison Death Penalty Bill & U.S. Parallels:

  • Emma and Matt detail new draconian measures in Israel targeting Palestinians and the broader implications for democratic rights and apartheid comparisons.

    "Now Israel’s not carried out an execution in more than 60 years... this is almost just like more formalizing their brutality even more so."
    — Emma Vigeland (61:15)

• Lighter Exchanges & Fun Half

  • The hosts riff on Prince Andrew’s potential prison fate, joke about “shackled Prince Andrew the pedophile,” and Brandon’s upcoming birthday.
  • Banter on current stories, audience engagement, and plugs for upcoming projects, including Michael Hayden’s forthcoming book, Strange People on the Hill.

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Notable Quotes

• On U.S. Institutional Failure:

  "It’s a farce... Billionaires should not exist because having that level of wealth creates a psychosis. It’s a chicken or the egg situation, and it doesn’t really matter either way."
  — Emma Vigeland (12:12, 12:56)

• On Right-Wing Paramilitaries:

  "We can say that some people who might have signed up for the Proud Boys... now have a place to go where they can get paid to be Proud Boys. So why wouldn’t you do that?"
  — Michael Edison Hayden (32:47)

• On the Epstein Files’ Impact on MAGA:

  "I have never seen anything quite as damaging as this... It does seem like something not easily repaired and put together."
  — Michael Edison Hayden (52:27, 55:25)

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Episode Timeline (Selected Timestamps)

• Epstein Developments and Accountability: 01:18–18:40
• Congressional clips on Wexner/Trump: 09:25–16:22
• Idaho Far Right Segment with Hayden: 23:19–58:38
  • Viral Idaho town hall: 24:21–29:14
  • Neo-Nazi history: 34:52–38:23
  • Sellner/Pettibone: 38:23–42:27
  • Dave Riley: 45:15–51:52
• Israel/Palestine Segment: 58:40–67:26
• Fun Half & Banter: 69:35 to end

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains the irreverent, razor-sharp, and deeply informed tone characteristic of The Majority Report. Emma, Matt, and Michael blend humor, outrage, and nerdy analysis. The show oscillates between urgent condemnation of elite impunity (“these people need to be actually put through a court process...”) and deadpan observations (“Billionaires should not exist... they are lunatics...”). Hayden’s interview brings a sobering and granular look at embedded extremism, made lively by anecdotes and field reporting.

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Further Reading & Resources

• Michael Edison Hayden’s Mother Jones article: "Who the F are these men?"
• Michael Edison Hayden’s forthcoming book (April 2026): Strange People on the Hill
• Representative Robert Garcia’s Oversight Committee testimony
• Rep. Ted Lieu on DOJ failures in the Epstein files
• Novara Media’s reporting on Israeli prison abuse

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For full discussions, clips, and resources, visit Majority.FM.

Transcript

[Emma Vigiland]

It is Thursday, February 19, 2026. My name is Emma Vigiland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Michael Edison Hayden joins us to talk about the hotbed of far right politics that exists in Northern Idaho. Also on the program, former Prince Andrew arrested in the UK on suspicion of misconduct in office due to his Epstein ties. Billionaire Les Wexner, listed as a co conspirator in the files and one of Bondi's improper redactions testified to the oversight committee that Epstein duped him. Just, he was so charismatic. That's their excuse. Sure.

[Matt Binder]

Look at Wexner's message to Epstein in the birthday book. Yeah, the little illustration he drew of a woman's chest.

[Emma Vigiland]

He let Epstein live in his house.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigiland]

Despite the federal government claiming they've drawn down ICE activity in Minnesota, local reports show they've moved their activities just to the suburbs. A federal judge in Minnesota finds a Trump DOJ lawyer in civil contempt for stealing an immigrant's identifying papers after the judge ordered his release. Even Trump supporters are starting to express concern about ICE buying up warehouses in their neighborhoods, mostly for racist reasons, but property value reasons. Yeah, well, which is what I just said. The White House has directed DHS to target naturalized citizens with voter fraud investigations for their past votes, which is just a brazen intimidation tactic. CNN is reporting that Iran strikes are imminent, but also that Trump is still weighing options, which to me sounds like someone trying to lock Trump in by saying that to CNN. The U.S. is withdrawing nearly all of the 1,000 troops in Syria. The so called Board of Peace is meeting today, but Mexico's Claudia Sheinbaum turned down Trump's invitation because Palestine was not included. Please be our president. Instead, Bernie Sanders held a rally in California in support of the state's proposed 5% tax on billionaires. And lastly, South Korea's former president has been found guilty of insurrection and was sentenced to to life in prison.

[Matt Binder]

Huh.

[Emma Vigiland]

All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show everybody. It's an M. Majority Report Thursday. Well, I'm hosting today per usual, but Sam is still out this week. He'll be out tomorrow. It's winter break here in New York for the kids. So Sam will be back on Monday with us. The Jeffrey Epstein fallout, the dominoes that continue to fall is one of the top stories still in the country. In Europe, we're seeing actual steps towards Accountability that the United States has not engaged in on this.

[Matt Binder]

The Wasserman guy having to sell his agency is the only thing we've seen, the closest thing we've seen to actual. And I guess Kathy Ruemmler losing her job at Goldman Sachs.

[Emma Vigiland]

Larry Summers had to step down from Harvard. But I mean these are voluntary like

[Matt Binder]

step like there's no actual like investigations into these people. It's embarrassing institution that should have known better. And there's no, no question like with Keir Starmer in the UK acting like they're surprised that Peter Mandelson was implicated in this. When he was picked by Keir Starmer, they were saying he was. He's. He was known as the Lord of the Dark Arts. What dark arts did they think you that people were referring to?

[Emma Vigiland]

It really is an example of the rod of American society that the impulse is to just let the market decide what the punishment is. It really is. It's a free market mentality. You lose your job. That's not what the justice system is. These people need to be actually put through a court process and tried for their alleged criminality because that's what justice actually is. It's not just losing your fancy job and getting to remain a millionaire in your Palm beach home.

[Matt Binder]

There is a time that the state needs to kick people's doors down and gather evidence in their residences. And we way beyond that for this Epstein class.

[Emma Vigiland]

So Prince Andrew, stripped of his titles, but not just that. Arrested today on suspicion of misconduct while in office. This is the first arrest of a royal since 1647, when Charles the First was arrested during the English Civil War.

[Matt Binder]

Yeah, pretty based thing. Shout out John Milton, who was for the revolutionary Republican government, one of their sort of spokespeople and indeed wrote the thing about how actually God would want us to be able to chop the heads off of kings.

[Emma Vigiland]

We should probably engage in some of that discourse today. So it's seismic and it is bittersweet because I saw the family of Virginia Giuffre, who was victimized by Prince Andrew, put out a statement. I wish she was still here to see this day, but she's not. She's one of the many people who mysteriously died in Jeffrey Epstein's wake. Relatedly, there was a story in the Wall Street Journal that came out last night about Jean Luc Brunel, a French modeling agent who worked with Epstein. He was a central figure in recruiting girls for Epstein's trafficking operation in Europe. And the Journal reported that he was secretly negotiating in 2016 with the lawyers that were Representing Epstein's victims was gonna cooperate, then went dark. And people may remember he was arrested in 2020 in France and mysteriously died in jail in 2022. It's so odd how this keeps happening, man.

[Matt Binder]

These prisons just. These deaths just keep happening.

[Emma Vigiland]

I mean, we're told that these are supposed to be places of the utmost security, and yet all of these lapses continue to happen. It's odd. And so then you have billionaire Les Wexner, who testified to the House Oversight Committee yesterday. He was listed as a co conspirator in the files, but he was redacted illegally. And Ro Khanna ended up revealing him as one of the names that was illegally redacted by Pam Bondi's Department of Justice. Wexner's trying to distance himself from Epstein. He, in this testimony, which he did remotely to the House Oversight Committee, was just talking about how he was duped by Epstein. He said Epstein lived a double life, and he was a master manipulator. Those were his words. Epstein lived in Les Wexner's home. Like Wexner's literal home. Epstein managed Wexner's personal finances for over a decade. And as Matt mentioned earlier, Wexner alluded to their misdeeds in the birthday book. That also included, of course, the note from Donald Trump. And once again, Virginia Giuffre very bravely pointed out that Wexner came out and said Wexner was one of the people that Epstein forced her to have sex with when she testified.

[Matt Binder]

Here's the illustration that Wexner gave to Jeffrey in the birthday book. Dear Jeffrey, I wanted to get. I wanted to get you what you want. So here it is. And. Oh, boobs.

[Emma Vigiland]

Boobs, Right. Which. And he was indignant in his testimony that he's never been unfaithful to his wife, ever, ever, ever, ever.

[Matt Binder]

Don't believe you.

[Emma Vigiland]

That illustration makes it seem like. And the association with that scene, I don't know, makes it seem like. Yeah, perhaps. And Virginia Giuffre's testimony about this, maybe you're not telling the truth. So here is Representative Robert Garcia, the top Democrat on the Oversight Committee, talking about this Les Wexner virtual testimony.

[Representative Robert Garcia]

It's about $1 billion that was either transferred, provided in stocks, or. Or given directly to Mr. Epstein by Wexner. We should be very clear that the two were very close. Per reporting, they spent a lot of time together. Mr. Wexner admitted that he traveled to both Epstein's island as well as his other properties. Mr. Wexler also admitted that Jeffrey Epstein traveled, had access to a lot of Mr. Wexler's wealth, and when asked even simple questions, even as it relates to Mr. Epstein being the co president of the foundation that established the area that we're in today, Mr. Wexler had little to say. In fact, it's clear that mixer, Mr. Wexler, is trying to downplay how close Jeffrey Epstein and Mr. And Mr. Wexler actually were. And we should be very clear that there would be no Epstein island, there'd be no Epstein plane, there'd be no money to traffic women and girls. Mr. Epstein would not be the wealthy man he was without the support of Les Wexner. I think it's very important for us to note at this moment,

[Emma Vigiland]

in the 90s, Les Wexner gave Epstein the power of. His power of attorney to sign contracts and do business dealings on Les Wexner's behalf. Yeah, I mean, it's a farce.

[Matt Binder]

And this thing of, oh, he was a con man. I didn't do anything wrong. I'm faithful to my wife. I'll say again, I don't believe him at all. I think I suspect the absolute worst of Wexner's behavior when he went to Epstein. But let's say. Let's say that's true. Why do we allow people like you to be so rich, Mr. Wexner? Why do we allow this? Why do we lower taxes for this class of people? It's because they're supposed to be so great with allocating capital. And yet what do we find out that they're doing with it? They're giving it to Jeffrey Epstein. What's Elon Musk doing on his Christmas? He's trying to figure out when the wildest party is. These people are parasites entirely, and they are criminals. Like this. This behavior that Epstein went for so long and you found out that he is like a bad guy or whatever, like 10 years or so ago, whatever the story is, didn't do much to. I mean, I guess you cooperated in 2019. That's supposedly the story, right? Like, he.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah, yeah. After all of that. And then he also claimed that because Epstein's money really came from Wexner, that those millions and millions of dollars were essentially stolen from him by Epstein. And the way. The reason they could be stolen, even if you believe that story, is because you gave this pedophile sex trafficker the power of attorney for you as a billionaire. You. I mean, so unbelievable.

[Matt Binder]

Billionaires should not exist. Because, again, like, the best case scenario here is they are lunatics that will turn over power of a third attorney to a major sex trafficking conspiracy like intelligence operative. That's assuming they don't know it. Assuming what they, what they do with the money when they do know what they're doing with it could be just as malicious.

[Emma Vigiland]

And it's. They should not exist because having that level of wealth creates a psychosis. It's a chicken or the egg situation and it doesn't really matter either way. If you are a sociopath, you have to be a sociopath to be a billionaire. Or if a billionaire being a billionaire makes you a sociopath, it doesn't necessarily.

[Matt Binder]

Yeah, all comes the same.

[Emma Vigiland]

You are in such a rarefied situation that your only relationships with people are like your servants or they're entirely transactional and everybody has to suck up to you where you completely lose connection from a shared humanity. And that's why all these billionaires are building their bunkers and fantasizing about going to other planets is because they are anti humanity. That is what that level of wealth and power does to you. And, and it's why you might be raping girls, for example, because you don't have a connection to humanity anymore given the amount of power that you and money that you've accrued. Now here's another clip from a Democrat, Representative Ted Lieu. He is kind of imploring the media to look at some of the accusations against Donald Trump that are in these files. Now, these are just allegations and accusations, but they're immensely disturbing. And Ted Lieu is pretty clear here in the severity of the allegations against Trump that are in the files that we know about.

[Representative Ted Lieu]

So why are Republicans so interested in Bill Hillary Clinton? It's because they're trying to distract from the fact that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files thousands and thousands of times. In those files, there's highly disturbing allegations of Donald Trump raping children, of Donald Trump threatening to kill children. So I encourage the press to go look at these allegations. And I'm highly disturbed that Deputy Attorney General Ty Blanch just got the law wrong yesterday. He said essentially that it is not a crime to party with Jeffrey Epstein. Well, that's actually not correct. If Jeffrey Epstein was human trafficking minors for these sex parties and you show up and patronize the establishment at that party. Yes, you're guilty because patronizing is part of the law, the federal sex trafficking law. So Deputy General Talblanche just got that wrong, which maybe explains why they aren't investigating all these folks, including Donald Trump. He needs to read the law and, and investigate these People. He also needs to resign not only for not knowing the law, but a massive not only screw up, but the biggest privacy violation in history. They release a lot of pictures of minors unredacted. Just violated the privacy of these girls. It is uncalled for what they did. The one thing that they could not do under this law was to invade the privacy of these women now who were girls at the time who were victims of sex trafficking. Also, he met with Ghislaine Maxwell. Maxwell moved her to limbs security prison and then got a puppy for her. So for all those reasons, he's just got to leave the Department of Justice.

[Emma Vigiland]

It's just, I mean that like, well done. Both of these are so well done because it is impossible when you have the fact pattern at your disposal to not articulate how incriminating this is.

[Matt Binder]

Like how Obama like became a populist because Mitt Romney just happened to have a car elevator.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Binder]

Said everyone didn't pay taxes and gifted

[Emma Vigiland]

the Democrats that oppo research with the 47% clip.

[Matt Binder]

But I mean, two quick points. The Clintons, I hope they go down and we never have to hear from them again after next week. I would love it if they completely imploded. But it is important to note that the Republicans that are putting all the focus on them are doing so to obscure the implicit. All the implications this has for the like say Donald Trump himself or Lutnick or Elon Musk. Right. Like, so there's a, there's both things can be true at the same time.

[Emma Vigiland]

Exactly. Right. And I do think that that point about the girls and how they specifically left their names and then identifiers in the files needs to be hammered more. Where they attack. They redacted illegally the name of, of, of Les Wexner and what Leon Black was another, I believe, the, the, the

[Matt Binder]

guy who stepped down from the big shipping company. Yeah. And it should be looked at as a.

[Emma Vigiland]

Intentional, an intentional intimidation tactics. The point is that they were very intentional in protecting the people illegally with those redactions. The billionaires specifically that we know about. Right. I mean, they're making it so difficult for members of Congress to look through the unredacted files. And they are also monitoring their activity, as we saw in the photo of Pam Bondi's notebook showing Pramila Jayapal's search history through the files.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah.

[Matt Binder]

What she looked up.

[Emma Vigiland]

What she looked up. They're monitoring the people that actually want to get to the bottom of this, the representatives who they're targeting. So they specifically redacted the names of the billionaires and to scare the victims, intentionally left their identifying information in there, including for victims who hadn't come forward publicly.

[Matt Binder]

It's retaliation and intimidation.

[Emma Vigiland]

It is one of the it should not be spoken about as sloppiness. This is maliciousness and a deep, deep darkness that we're only scratching the surface of with the Epstein files here. In a moment we are going to be speaking to our first guest, Michael Hayden, about his reporting on the far right and neo Nazi hotbed in Idaho. But first, a word from one of our sponsors. Picture this. It's late at night, you're scrolling through your feeds when all of a sudden you see it. That one product that you have been looking for. You click on the link, add to cart, maybe even shop around a little bit more before finally hitting checkout. As you're filling in your address, you realize you don't have your cart anywhere near you and it's annoying. If you're online shopping in bed, you don't want to get up and find your wallet.

[Matt Binder]

Yeah, I'm trying to waste time not sleeping.

[Emma Vigiland]

Exactly right. Well, that's when you see it. The purple pay button that has all of your information saved, making checking out as simple as a simple tap of your screen. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names to brands just getting started. Shopify is used by the Majority Report for our merch store. But I love when I go when I'm online shopping and I see that Shopify is offered at checkout because I'm like it's literally that scenario. I'm too lazy to get up, I don't remember my card information. Numbers scramble in my brain. So Shopify makes it incredibly easy and I can open up the app and track my the shipments of what I'm ordering and all of that. It's your one stop shop for your online shopping experience. But then on our side as like a small business with a small merch store, Shopify has been phenomenal for us as well. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style. Accelerate your efficiency whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. Best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping, to processing returns and beyond. And what if I get stuck? Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning 24. 7 customer support. Tackle all those important tasks in one place. From inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out which platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place making your life easier and your business operations smoother. See less carts go abandoned and more sales go ka ching with Shopify and their shop pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com Majority Go to shopify.com Majority shopify.com Majority we will put a link down below in the video and episodes description, episode descriptions and at majority dot them. Quick break and we'll be speaking with Michael Hayden. We are back and we are joined now by Michael Edison Hayden, investigative reporter on far right extremism, co host of the posting through it podcast, whose piece in Mother Jones focusing on northern Idaho is entitled who the F are these men? I know that you have a book coming out too in a few weeks, few months on this very topic. So everyone be on the lookout for that. Michael, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Thanks for having me, Emma.

[Emma Vigiland]

Of course. So your article opens with this incident. Let's pull this up here. We're gonna play this clip. You included it in the article. People may remember this. This is from almost a year ago, exactly February 2025, when there was this town hall at this county Republican town hall in Idaho and this woman was dragged out by this private kind of security force. Let's play a little bit of that footage and then Michael, I'd love your thoughts on it. And free to give us some details because this is the area of Idaho that your article focuses on. In the meantime,

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Let's go.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

This is.

[Guest or caller (unnamed)]

Excuse me, Sheriff Norris. This jun is assaulting. This man is assaulting. Now let's go. This man is assaulting me. Is this your deputy? Is this your deputy? No, don't touch us. Is he a deputy? These are deputies. Who the are these men?

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Hey. Hey.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

We know that government has been mismanaging

[Guest or caller (unnamed)]

these guys.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Who are you?

[Guest or caller (unnamed)]

Who are these guys? Who are you? Who the are these guys? Who are these guys? Show your badge.

[Emma Vigiland]

Who are you? Who the.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Just cooperate.

[Matt Binder]

It'll be 100 times.

[Guest or caller (unnamed)]

Yeah, that's what they say to rape victims. You refuse to identify yourselves. Who are you? Who are you?

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Thank you for comfort.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

But the problem is, is this.

[Emma Vigiland]

So they ended up carrying her out There we played that incident on the show when. When it happened, obviously, with what we've seen with ICE and the terrorizing of communities, it almost, you know, it sheds, I think, a new light or colors it differently because this was a preview of what was. What was to come on the federal government level. But tell us about that incident and what really happened there.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, I got to choose my words carefully here, because I don't want to be like, oh, I was about to say, I love this video, because obviously it's horrible. Right? It's a horrible, horrible thing. But what I like about it, I like it in terms of analyzing the current moment that we're in. You got to remember this was like, February 2025. And the symbolism around that is just so heavy. First of all, not knowing who. Who is. Who is messing with you here. Right.

[Emma Vigiland]

That.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

That. That had resonance throughout 2025 and into 2026. Right. It's been this hunt to try to figure out who killed Alex Preddy, who did, you know, Right. This. This secrecy coming from the sort of fascist right to use meaning that colloquial colloquially. So that's one part of it. Another thing is that Theresa being an outspoken woman and like, how, yeah, it's horrible what's happening to her, but also her. Her strength in that moment to yell those things. And also her. The people behind her being her. Her friends, knowing she told them to film it, and that's not on there. It's just a sort of like, you know, film this, they're coming for me kind of thing. And just to be yelling that also, but knowing that it would be a moment that everybody would see. I mean, she's really brave, I think. And so just in terms of just practicality, that security firm is called Lear Asset Management, and they've since been taken down a peg with just losing a lot of status as a company. This group called kcrcc, which is sort of just the. They essentially run the Republican Party in North Idaho. They. They brought them in. There is a sheriff that they were closely aligned with, and there. There are a lot of divisions between the sheriff and the Coeur d' Alene Police Department. So Kootenai County Sheriff's Department and the local sheriff's department have issues, and that's largely over this kind of purity spiraling that the right has been doing since Trump's rise, where it's just, you're not extreme enough, you're not far right enough. Theresa had been known to these bodies that I, That I. That I mentioned, because she. She'd run for office a couple times and lost. I mean, you know, you tend to do that in Idaho if you run as a Democrat. And, you know, and she went to the town hall to speak up, basically. She wanted to. She wanted to have her voice heard in that setting. And she knew they probably wouldn't like it, but what she didn't know was that they would come and try to literally physically rough her up like that. And the fact that they did, I think, shows the difference between the first Trump administration and this one.

[Representative Ted Lieu]

Just.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Just the belief that their authoritarian power could not be moved.

[Emma Vigiland]

And what ended up happening in that. That incident, I mean, with this private security company, were there charges that were brought against them for brutalizing her? Because they don't. This is just a private security company, and she was exercising her free speech. You heard the speaker there mocking her for protesting. And it seems like that, you know, the Republican Party, the kcrcc, just kind of directed this private security company to get her out.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, I mean, there's been, like, a series of charges. And also the more important thing, I think, is the civil case. You know, the civil cases, which are still kind of going, and we're still gonna. We're gonna find out, I think, you know, what happens with. With her. With her case. The person who is her lawyer is a person. Do you. Do you recall? I think this is important context, I think, for Everybody. In. In 2022, there was a Pride event in. Yes, Coeur d', Alene, Idaho, the same place. And again, a lot of symbolism here as well, which is there were at least, I think, 31 Patriot Front members who had been put into a U Haul, and they drove to the park to kind of storm the park and make a big show of things. Thank God there was no violence. It could have seriously turned into violence had they not been arrested. But the police, I believe, had been tipped off, if I recall correctly. And so the. So around that same time, around the call for that, there was a whole bunch of stuff around Pride and people saying, oh, you know, there's like, they're grooming your children and this sort of thing. That was like a very 2022 line. I mean, it still goes on, but it was very popular around then. And there was a drag performer at that event as well, who's, they claimed exposed their genitals to the crowd and to children or whatever else. And that resulted in, like a $1 million, you know, settlement. And that lawyer is the same person who's representing Teresa in Idaho. So this is like A common occurrence where they kind of go past the line of, you know, what would be just normal Republican politics, which is already authoritarian, and then make it like far more extreme.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah, I mean, that incident I remember and the imagery of that being quite horrifying, these masked Nazis coming out of U Hauls and going into this, this Pride event in Idaho was chilling. And you wonder how many of these people in some of these paramilitary right wing groups ended up just signing up to be ICE agents. Since we don't know their identities. That's. It's probably a pretty good guess at the very least that Proud Boys and others ended up signing up to be ICE agents.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

But I wanted to, if I may.

[Emma Vigiland]

Sure.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Which is this is a regular thing that Jared Holt and I talk about on, on, on our podcast, posting through it, which is just like, we don't know. We do know that Proud Boy activity is down. We know that Patriot Front is, is still appearing at events, but they're really less potent. It feels their, their ability to go viral has gone down. And yeah, we have all these masked guys showing up in, in these events. We can't necessarily say that, oh, this guy was a proud boy and now he's an ICE agent or something like that. But we can say that some people who might have signed up for the Proud Boys in the previous term or even during the Biden years now have a place to go where they can get paid to be proud boys. So why wouldn't you do that? Right? Like, why wouldn't you do that? And that's why it's. That's why I think everything that is, that that's covered in this story, I think is so relevant for the rest of the country. And that's why it's like, you know, I'm glad Mother Jones invested this much time into sort of, you know, like sort of teasing out and explaining it, because this is really happening in everybody's neighborhood. That where to some degree, even if Idaho is more extreme than the rest of the country, this type of thing is reflected in almost every area of the country.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah. We've been speaking on our show about how Zoran Mamdani's leadership in New York is kind of a laboratory for future progressive governance. And I've been thinking about that word laboratory a little bit. And when I read your piece, it occurred to me that Northern Idaho appears to be a laboratory for far right politics. You go through many examples of this and how there have been more moderate efforts in the Republican wing that are being destroyed now by like the Insurgent kind of far right that continues to gain popularity there. But it goes back even further. Take us to the 70s as neo Nazis started to pour into Idaho and what some of that history is.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, this is, you know, this is a bit, you know, this is. This is a bit beyond most, probably most of your audience. I mean, you know, I know I'm sure you have all ages.

[Emma Vigiland]

Our audience is very, very. Well, we have all ages. Oh, you mean age wise. I was about to suck up to them for being smart enough to know something.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Oh, smart enough for sure. I just mean, you know, that they didn't live through it and stuff like that, because I did, you know, I didn't live through most of the. I lived through it. I just didn't know most of it was happening. Yeah, I mean, there were. There was like, you know, Aryan nations was, you know, a dominant neo Nazi group that was, you know, really, really big in Idaho during the, you know, during the 80s. And it actually, you know, I used to work at splc. You know, they marched down, down the center of town, for example, in Coeur d' Alene with swastika flags and they used to show up actually in street corners and things like that with like, swastikas. And nobody would really do anything because partly because they're so afraid of them. And they were, you know, this is, you know, I want to make very clear that this is not. This does not represent all Idahoans. It also doesn't represent all Republicans. But I think it's useful to know for people that. That this was kind of like just going on and part of the community there. You know, in the same way you would imagine something that, you know, some sort of vaguely left, left wing thing would happen in New York City, as you mentioned. And it wasn't until an incident in which some members of Aryan nations fired at a woman's car and. And center, which is my former employer, they sued them successfully and sort of put them under. And then there was a brief period, a lull, if you will, in which extremism was always there. There was always like far right people, but people believe that it was sort of under control for a while. And it wasn't until the. The period around the pandemic, maybe a little bit before. But it really. The pandemic was, you know, lit a fire for. For extremists, which I'm sure, you know, and that's when it started to really grow. And you had a lot of people moving from out of state to Idaho because it's like, you know, this potentially a white homeland. And that's really like where the story picks up.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah. And you cut out slightly. I just wanted for people to know what you said. Basically there was a member of the Aryan Nation that fired into a car in the Southern Poverty Law center, your former employer was involved in, in that case. And I hadn't been aware of even like the just explicit area nation leadership moving to Idaho in the 70s. And then you have one of an associate, Randy Weaver, who you talk about in the piece as well. So this is like multi decades of kind of maybe slower buildup to this being a bit of a neo Nazi hotbed. But as you mentioned, this starts to pick up in the pandemic. And you talk about a few different people in the piece that some of our audience may be familiar with, including this guy, Martin Sellner, speak about his case.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, Martin Sellner. Oh my God. So Martin Sellner. And you guys can google him and read his whole history. I don't want to go into all of it, but basically he was, you know, generation Identity, I believe it's called. It was like this sort of European, Austrian, you know, white nationalist organization. And you know, he had a sort of superficially handsome face I guess he would describe and you know, made him a sort of a charismatic leader for that sort of. Around the same time that Richard Spencer was. Was kind of rising in the United States. Nobody punched Martin Sellner and there was no like backlash after a Charlottesville. So he kind of, you know, continued on and with the. Except his biggest problem just, if I can just quickly inject that he was, he was in these conversations with the Christchurch terrorist.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yep.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Right. So I just, I just want to put that like that, that was his, like his, his biggest downfall. And Sellner was, you know, in a relationship, an influencer himself, as all these people are. Sellner was a. In a relationship with Britney Brittany Pettibone, which who was a kind of upcoming trad influencer of her own. And again like, you know, super superficially pretty enough to get like enough of a following. Right. For being, for being an influencer. And the two of them kind of connected and you know, he, he wanted to get married to her and in Idaho. They wanted to do it in Idaho and have a big wedding there close to her home and everything. And he couldn't because he was on, you know, a kind of like a watch list type thing to get into

[Emma Vigiland]

the United States because he was in conversations with the Christchurch shooter.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, Christchurch shooter. And also like his whole background would help also Inform that too. Right. The context of why he was in. He was connected. The Christchurch shooter was also informing that. And yeah, and they like, you know, the local Republican Party stood up for Brittany Pettibone and said let her have her wedding here and tried to make it an issue for them. Which seems like a weird thing to do, like an issue to choose to go on a limb form. But here you have something that's connected to the mainstream Republican Party right in Idaho championing Brittany Pettibone who herself is. Is racist and had had traffic, you know, had, had done a lot of traffic for the Pizzagate conspiracy theory. And then this guy who is again known to be a white nationalist, that's his whole brand. So I think that like really says a lot. Then there was a series of things that happened after that that you know, kind of made it worse. Right. There was like, you know, I go through it in the thing we mentioned the Patriot Front thing, but we didn't mention for example the event in against the Utah women's basketball team in which a guy, you know, yelled extremely racist things, racist and sexist things at a black player for the Utah women's basketball team. And this was a huge scandal and a great embarrassment. I want to just quickly interject for people who don't know that Coeur d' Alene is beautiful. It's a beautiful city. It used to be make all its money from like mining and timber and all that type of thing. And now it really relies on tourism. And this is like a big problem because people get these headlines and they hear these things. They don't want to go there for obvious reasons. You got a lot of gay couples, for example, who live in Seattle or places like that in the surrounding area who might want to vacation. There's. They don't want to go. And part of it is because of this reputation and the people locally are trying to fight.

[Emma Vigiland]

But you also are. I mean the tourism that is being attracted is kind of like these now trad wife right wing influencers that are drawn to the reputation of neo Nazis having come out of this area of Idaho. Coming.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah. They don't spend as much money as tours for big cities.

[Emma Vigiland]

No, that's what I'm saying. They're outnumbered. But it's, you know, there's been reporting about other areas of the country where there are efforts to create kind of white only communities in deep parts of the south as well. This seems a little bit more formalized though because this local Republican party is and I'm forgetting the acronym off the Top of my head.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

But kcrcc, there you go.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah, they are. The problem here to me appears to be that it's, they've completely, this far right faction has completely taken over the local Republican Party. I mean, a Nazi faction.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, it's bad. You know, I'll just bring up my book Strange People on the Hill in April. It's a very similar situation. And the reason why that, that, that takes place in Berkeley Springs, West Virginia. And there's a reason why these stories are situated there, and that is because Morgan County, West Virginia is 90% over 90% white, and North Idaho is around 90% white. And they look at the map in the United States and they're like, where can we even go with these things? And what I find so interesting about it myself, it's like I'm mixed. My mother's an Egyptian immigrant. You know, I'm culturally white, but like, you know, I'm a product of the Great Replacement, basically. You know, and, you know, I look at it and what I find so interesting about it are white people in these areas who have voted Republican for a long time who are forced to draw a line. And there's like so much, for me, there's just so much drama around that where it just sort of like, it's like, wait, so wait, hold on. You know, I voted for Trump and you know, I like Trump and I watch Fox News, but like at some point I need to draw a line. And the tension around that is I just find very compelling. And sometimes you hear stories about, you know, from, from these areas that I find really moving. And then also others that I find really depressing where it's just, they're willing to go along with, with white nationalist talking points because they think that that is, the other people are anti Trump and that is the really depressing reality of our, of our country right now.

[Emma Vigiland]

You also talked with this guy, Dave Riley here, who his ideology, it seems like it's pretty aligned with this kind of emerging element on the far right. Fuentes associated, bit of a Catholic supremacist as well. Yeah. And deeply anti Semitic as well.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

That's the main thing. Yeah.

[Emma Vigiland]

Talk about his ideology and what your conversation was like with him, who's obviously Idaho based.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, Riley's okay. Well, I mean, just some, just some quick background on Riley. He's one of the people who came from out of state to kind of be like, this is a place I can kind of move in and do things. And he, yeah, he defines himself as a Catholic, for sure. He, his Original brand was around white nationalism. That's kind of the way he would have. You know, I don't know if he would have said that as much, but he was on In Discords and stuff like that, where there were kind of planning the original Unite the Right rally back in the day. And he sort of reinvented himself as a sort of Catholic nationalist would be the way he describes himself. But he's really centered on the conspiracies around Jewish people. And when I met him, I met him in this bar, outdoor bar called Whispers, which, you know, it's like they're playing like, you know, Hart's power ballads out in the lobby and like these. Out on a beautiful deck in this. In this resort in Coeur d'. Alene. And he's wearing like a huge crucifix around his neck. Like, if it were diamond, you'd think he was. You'd think he was like Playboy Carti or something. And, you know, he was. You know, he's like, everything goes back to Jews and he is under the belief, you know, this is a place with very few Jews. And he feels like he can really make inroads around that. And on the other side of this is a conflict with a far right Christian Zionist movement in North Idaho. And I think it's impossible to talk about Riley and you know, his activism without talking about them, because there's a church called Candlelight Church. I was, you know, when I, When I went there, they told me like, you know, they told us to essentially not pray to Samuel Alito. But they put up a big picture of him. Yeah, no, they like, yeah, no, no, there's like a big picture of Samuel Alito. It's in the. It's in the story. You gotta like, squint. But there's like. It goes by really quickly. I blew up. So they put a picture of Samuel Alito and they're like, they want to pray for him and they're like, we forgive him for being Catholic or whatever, but, like, you know, we hope that this, this man can, you know, do the right thing and he's hard or whatever. And yeah, they have a huge Israel flag on the side of the stage. I mean, like, monster sized. It's not like, oh, we support Israel with like a little thing. There's just like huge, huge flag. And you know, locally, Riley has been at war with the pastor there, this guy named Paul Van Noy. And it is this conflict between sort of fellow Semitic, far right philosophy, far right church, and like a kind of anti Semitic Activism in which everything is centered around, you know, the problems in your life that you're having right now. The Jews are responsible for that, you know, and it's, for me, it's, it's so tiresome and awful. I've heard so much of it. And it's, and there are very few Jews in the area. And if you were Jewish, you know, I would want to leave. Like, I would, you know, I would not want to be, of course, because it's like, you know, and it's sad. That's sad. We should not have places in the country where you want to do this. Also, the other thing, he's, he's wearing kefa. He's like, you know, he's, he's really involved himself in like, you know, Palestine stuff. And he tried to relate to me on that because I like, on my mother's side we do have Palestinians. And you know, they, it is, it is the clearest example I can think of actually where people have taken the conflict that emerged after October 7 and the genocide in Gaza and exploited it really for their own ends. Because, you know, this, this activism does not help the cause.

[Emma Vigiland]

No, it hurts. It's, it's just, it almost is, it would be turd in the punch bowl

[Matt Binder]

is what Alex Jones calls.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah, if like the Deep State was trying to discredit the pro Palestine movement, they would elevate guys like this. Nazis wearing keffiyehs. It's really disgusting.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah. And I don't see anybody, you know, around him on his side advocating that North Idaho become a place where we take in a bunch of Arab refugees. I don't see that. Right. It was like, let them, let, let everybody die there so we can blame Israel for this and we can continue to punish the Jews at home. I don't see anybody be like, oh, how do we help them? How can I relate to them personally? It doesn't really, you don't really see that. So, yeah, I mean like this, this is, this environment is not healthy for anybody who is, you know, a so called normie, whether you're, you know, the type of person who voted for mitt Romney in 2012. I had to think for a second if it was 2012 when Mitt Romney was a while ago. Yeah. I mean, these, most of these people did. Right. So this is not healthy. It's not healthy psychologically for people. I mean, having, having covered this material for a long time, you know, it's taken a toll on me, really. You know, I mean, I know how, how difficult can be like kind of live in this world where you're hearing this stuff all the time. And that's what a lot of people are to. In Coeur d' Alene and North Idaho and in rural places all around the country where whites are a majority, where Republicans dominate and there's very little opposition. It is Trumpism has started to mutate and that is essentially what, what, what this story is about.

[Emma Vigiland]

On the topic of that mutation, how has the Epstein, how have the Epstein revelations impacted some of these guys? I mean, I would imagine that for the anti Semitic white nationalists, they have opinions about Jeffrey Epstein that are pretty anti Jewish, but also their God king, Donald Trump is heavily implicated in it and the COVID up has been so brazen and obvious. Has it caused any dissonance in their minds?

[Michael Edison Hayden]

That's really funny that you mentioned that because I was going to go, I was called to speak for a class at Columbia yesterday and the topic was something else. And then they're like, at the last minute be like, do you mind talking about Epstein instead? We just like everybody, it is the dominant, it's the dominant story right now. It really is. And I think broadly what I would say, you know, you can, you can imagine what, what some of the folks on Riley's side would say about Epstein without even, you don't need to even look it up. You just already know, you've already intimated it in the question. I think what is happening to Trump's base broadly? And I think this is like you know, just, just kind of, you know, stand back a little bit. Is that the, the core, it remains unmoved, but we are seeing like a little bit of, if you have, like, if you ever see like a wound, which is a good way to describe the Mecha base, but like, you know, when it's like, it heals over time, you see like the, like the edges, the center is still like tender for a while, but the edges start to fade a little bit. That is kind of like what's happening, I think a little bit. And it's too early to say that MAGA is done or something because the Epstein things, but I have never seen anything quite as damaging as this. And I think it's, there is sadly a strong anti Semitic conspiratorial base within the base and Trump's failure to respond, if you recall, he had that. There was that Wall Street Journal thing with a drawing, right? And stuff like that. The first reaction to that was just kind of like, oh, people draw anything. Whatever. It was just like it's fake. La, la, la, la, la. I. I don't care.

[Emma Vigiland]

I think his son went on TV and said that, you know, my dad

[Matt Binder]

doesn't even like to draw.

[Emma Vigiland]

My dad doesn't even like to draw. He only draws buildings or something like that.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, you couldn't quite. You didn't quite. You couldn't shake the, the, the, the. The suggestion that the, the, you know, the bread, the drawing, the breast was very small and, like, it looked, you know, it just didn't look great. And, you know, so you can't prove anything with that, but it didn't look great. And, and, you know, even though the first response was kind of like, I don't want to. I don't see no evil here. No evil, I do think it started to penetrate there. And then over time, as it became clear that he really was trying to keep this stuff out and there's so much of it, I really do think it's impacting people and, you know, the best. Steve Bannon. Sorry, did I. Did I freeze her for a second?

[Matt Binder]

Yeah, you're back now.

[Emma Vigiland]

You're back, though. Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm normal on my side. I don't know what happened.

[Emma Vigiland]

It was just a quick glitch. But you just said Bannon and Epstein's correspondence.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, I think Bannon is a really good example of this, because this is a guy who essentially, you could write a version. You could argue a version of this in which Bannon himself created maga. Right. He's so influential and he's so important, and he's. He's been the driver of so many events over the years, including things like, you know, the stop the. The, you know, the January 6th stuff and everything like that. And you have people publicly, I mean, Elon Musk, who is in the files himself, kind of blaming Bannon and trying to say, like, you know, trying to scapegoat him. And, you know, I think it's a way to distance himself from it and. Of course, and. But you have it like regular guys like in the movie, like, calling for Bannon and, you know, to. To be cast aside. And, you know, it's bad because people who work with Bannon are being hounded online. You see people like Jack Posobic, who works for, you know, appears regularly on his War Room show. Like, people in his replies are saying things like, you. You associate yourself with Steve Bannon, like, we don't want you. So this is. This discord does not seem like something that is easily repaired and put together. That doesn't mean that MAGA isn't still incredibly powerful. I think it, I think it, I think it, I think it very much is. But. Yeah. And you know, locally in Idaho. Yeah. I mean, you're going to feel those type of things over there, too. There's a kind of paranoia around these things. You know, like some people are listening to Nick Fuentes and Nick Fuentes is telling you, I don't want to vote for that. I don't want to vote for that anymore. Like, no one should vote for this, this party anymore. That has huge reverberations because Riley and his ilk, they, they really look up to Fuentes.

[Emma Vigiland]

Lastly, on this, because we just had a, an IM and I'm not sure what Dan the Birdman is referring to, but they said, ask Michael about the Greater Idaho Movement. Does that fit into your, your reporting?

[Michael Edison Hayden]

I don't know enough about that to comment. I just, I don't want to say. I don't want to, like, do the thing where I, like, pretend to know enough so I don't know enough about the Greater Idaho Movement to I don't know anything.

[Emma Vigiland]

So. Fair enough. But Dan the Birdman, maybe that's a topic for another episode. Michael, thank you so much for your time today. You can read this full piece in Mother Jones and then of course, be on the lookout for your book that's coming up in April. You mentioned.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Yeah, April 7th's Strange People on the Hill. And it's about, if you're familiar with Peter Brimlow of Vidier, they purchased a castle, a beautiful historic castle that really should be for everyone, should be a public park, in my opinion. And they put it on. You know, it's situated on a hill that overlooks this tiny tourist town. And it's about what happened to the people in the town after that from 2020 to the end of the 2024 election.

[Emma Vigiland]

Awesome. All right. Well, I'm Michael Edison Hayden, investigative reporter on far right extremism, co host of the Posting through it podcast. You can read the piece and Mother Jones will link to it down below. Appreciate your time today. Thanks so much.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Thanks, Emma. I really appreciate it.

[Emma Vigiland]

Of course, we're going to head into the fun half shortly, but I did want to just quickly cover this because we had a guest that unfortunately had a travel issue, so had to reschedule. But we were going to be talking about the IDF borrowing ICE technology and learning from, from ice. So I wanted to make sure that we're continuing to check in with Israel, our wonderful ally over there, and their Continued genocide in Gaza during the ceasefire. That is not a ceasefire. Their belligerence in Lebanon, their, their manipulation

[Matt Binder]

of our government toward striking Iran.

[Emma Vigiland]

Iran. Exactly right. As, as Trump is weighing whether or not he's going to strike Iran again over the weekend. You have in Israel right now this fight in the Knesset because they're considering a series of bills and one of them is a bill that grants the Israeli government the ability to impose the death penalty on Palestinians and the Palestinians that would be subjected to the death penalty. And this is for Palestinians in the illegally occupied west bank and East Jerusalem, because of course, Gaza is just an open air extermination camp at this point.

[Matt Binder]

So now they're legislating over occupied territory

[Emma Vigiland]

that is not legally theirs. But they did just last a few days ago approve for the annexation of huge swaths of the West Bank. But they've been East Jerusalem and the west bank have been illegally occupied since 1967.

[Matt Binder]

Right. The only reason they haven't annexed, it really is because one, there's two reasons really. The polite reason that liberal Zionists would point out is that they don't want to go against the international community. The real reason that hasn't happened until now is because they've been a little bit squeamish about taking in so many Palestinians because that is just the acceptance of apartheid. That's why Amnesty International has belatedly in recent years come out and said, yes, this is apartheid. It's because when you take in, if those are people just you're occupying because it's a security threat, you don't need to count them as your demographics. This entire so called conflict is actually a demographic control operation by a settler colonial project that wants those people removed. And now it's just going to take them over. Because who cares, who cares about democracy? Who cares about one person, one vote? Nobody in, nobody that supports Israel does. Which means the whole Republican Party and a lot of Democrats.

[Emma Vigiland]

And what you just said reminded me also of another horror story, which is that Netanyahu himself is trying to assert the authority to revoke the citizenship of the Palestinian citizens of Israel and just send them either to Egypt, send them to Gaza, send them to the west bank potentially. Because how Israel has been able to maintain the lie that it's a democracy is that they have a small Palestinian minority within the like boundaries of Israel, that they are second class citizens. But now this is like when we talk about ICE and immigration enforcement here in the United States and how citizenship is used to tier people's rights and create lower Class citizens. And when we talk about the parallels with the Nuremberg Laws in the United States, where Jewish citizenship was stripped as a way to remove their rights as a prelude to the Holocaust, this is a tactic to make sure that people have fewer protections. That's what the Netanyahu. Netanyahu specifically, is trying to push for. But then you have Ben GVIR to get back to this story and his party. I think that it's the Jewish power party is what it translates to. He's been pushing for this for years. Ben gvir to advance legislation to allow for the death penalty for Palestinians in the west bank and East. In the illegally occupied west bank and East Jerusalem, it would make the death sentence mandatory for Palestinians in those two areas. If they kill an Israeli, and if it's determined that it's motivated by nationalism, hostility, or political ideology, which Israel would call terrorism, we would call uprisings against this illegal occupation. Now, Israel's not carried out an execution in more than 60 years in their territory, but obviously they're committing genocide. So those are executions, but this is almost just like. More formalizing their brutality. Even more so. So Novara Media posted this kind of compilation, and I'll read over the captions because it's for the podcast audience, but here is Itamar Ben Gavir bragging about the torture of Palestinian prisoners as they're trying to advance this bill on the death penalty. Death to terrorists. They need to be executed. We are on the eve of Ramadan, and we're seeing operations in the prison surface behaving against the terrorists, the murderers, the lowlifes, the cursed. This is. Yeah, explaining how they're showing all this footage of abusing Palestinian detainees. There are no more fairy tales. No canteens, no cigarettes, no education, no visits. There's food. 23 hours in the cell, one hour in the yard, seven minutes for a shower. Pause it just for a sec. This is a guard telling Ben GVIR about how. Bragging about how they're abusing Palestinian prisoners. And Ben GVIR says, thank God. In response. Keep going. The mattresses are outside the cells, meaning they're not taking any afternoon naps. When you see on the right is a picture of the new Gaza. So they'll understand. Now pause it. This is also what they've been doing, is they've been showing. Displaying images for the prisoners that they're torturing. Gaza being flattened. That's what he's bragging about there. Here, he says they need to be executed by hanging, by lethal injection, or by electric chair. The main thing is to Execute them. So these are the images of the prisons, the torture dungeons that, that Israel has thrown Palestinians into. This compilation we don't need to show anymore.

[Matt Binder]

I mean, this is the government that is, if we strike Iran, we remove an aircraft carriers because of the threat to this type of way of life. There should be these people, the Israelis. Ben GVIR should not have a monopoly of force backed up by the American taxpayer in that region. If they hadn't been given that for the past 75 years at the cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, this wouldn't exist.

[Emma Vigiland]

And put this image up really quickly. You'll see what's on his collar. That's a gold noose. So really, since December, Ben GVIR and other members of the Israeli right have been wearing golden nooses around golden noose lapels to indicate their support for the death penalty of Palestinians engaging in resistance. And later in the video, this Novara compilation, by the way, doing great work over there in the uk Novara media shows the footage of the Palestinian prisoner being raped by guards where they put up their shields. But you can still see the rape happening. And the rapists are now celebrities in Israel. They've unmasked themselves because there's shame. The Israeli population likes it and they've been going on television and bragging about the fact that they've raped this Palestinian prisoner.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

So

[Matt Binder]

let's take them seriously when they talk about sexual assault as justification for continuing to give them bombs. Let's just take that seriously, not question that. And actually smeared the people as anti Semitic who question that propaganda narrative that subscribed to by. I mean, who were some of the leading lights, the like the CEO type people. I forget what her name is. Was. I won't see some more documentaries about propaganda for Israel.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah, all right, well with that, that wasn't fun half material. So wanted to make sure that we got that in. In the free part of the show.

[Matt Binder]

Yeah, and this too. From the river to the Sea.

[Emma Vigiland]

Exactly. Matt, what is happening on Life Reckoning and with the Jacobin show tomorrow, new

[Matt Binder]

Jackobin show, Cornell west talking with David Griffith Briscoe. Cornell was very nice in the conversation. Talking, very excited about David's upcoming Texas book. So I'm excited to share that with everybody. Go subscribe to Jackman Meg YouTube channel and make sure you get our Jackman show.

[Emma Vigiland]

Do we have Brandon and Binder? We got Brandon as a rem. Oh, I will do my little plug for. For those who haven't yet, if you're in the LA area, take tickets to The Bituation Room live with myself, Francesca Fiorentini and special guests to come are. The link is down below in the description. You can come see us at Dynasty Typewriter on March.

[Guest or caller (unnamed)]

What is it?

[Emma Vigiland]

22nd. I can't remember this for the life of me for some reason. And March 22nd in the afternoon we're going to be in LA, the habituation room live. It's going to be really, really fun. Dynasty Typewriter. Check us out folks. And we have Brandon and Matt Binder coming soon. Whoa. Near you Peter.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Knew you.

[Emma Vigiland]

What's up? How are you guys doing?

[Brandon]

Well, I'm doing pretty well and I will say just at the top of the show next to week is my birthday and so I'm in an especially good mood because you know not only is it Pisces season but another, another famous Pisces had a big birthday today and that's former Prince Andrew.

[Emma Vigiland]

Happy birthday.

[Matt Binder]

Surprise birthday. That's awesome.

[Emma Vigiland]

I love it.

[Brandon]

Happy birthday bozo.

[Matt Binder]

So probably probably saved some. I mean the type of things he does on his birthday I imagine probably, you know, avoid some crimes.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah, right. Nothing to add to the ledger. He's, I mean he may not be able to sweat but he's going to be sweating in prison. I feel like that, that royal sweat

[Matt Binder]

now it's a miracle.

[Emma Vigiland]

I mean his right, right. God, that guy's hands are probably softer than like a five year old child. He's never done anything hard and hard work in his life and he the facing prison, you know, kind of, kind of love to see it but kind

[Matt Binder]

of prison that would they even throw a royal in?

[Emma Vigiland]

I don't know.

[Matt Binder]

Put him in the tower. Put him in the tower.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Put his head on the bridge.

[Brandon]

Yeah. I've been saying they need to put him in one of those iron masks that they you know used to do for like Elon and Griffith from berserk. That being said, apparently he could get life. He could get life for this misconduct charge that's on.

[Matt Binder]

But I'm saying like the Tower of London I feel like has fallen out of like the cachet people don't really talk about anymore. What better way to sort of juice that as another tourism spot then have him shackled there so people can pass him on the way to like get like concessions or something.

[Brandon]

Well this is a serious crime. So they're talking about like sentencing him to like you know, wander the lawless wastelands of Florida. The ultimate crime for the ultimate crime. You just have to live in palm. You have to live in like Tampa Bay. Or something.

[Emma Vigiland]

I just love the idea that this is like, like a old timey freak show carnival. When you go to the Tower of London, step right up and see shackled Prince Andrew the pedophile.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Just make him a cashier at Tesco. That would make him more miserable than anything on earth.

[Emma Vigiland]

That's true.

[Brandon]

Actually, streamer. It's pronounced pedophile over there.

[Emma Vigiland]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[Brandon]

That being said, though, I mean, honestly, I think it if he's in jail, regardless of whether or not it's for misconduct or not, if he's in jail and might be questioned, for Epstein, he better really watch out. He better hope he's on display. Makes it harder for accidents to happen

[Emma Vigiland]

that might protect him, making him a tourist destination.

[Brandon]

With all things said, though, at least they're doing something about it over there, right?

[Emma Vigiland]

I know.

[Matt Binder]

It's almost weird to see.

[Emma Vigiland]

It's crazy. Anyway, we'll talk about this all more and more in the fun half. Matt Bender, what's happening with you?

[Brandon]

YouTube.com mattbinder Tonight, 8:30pm left is mafia.

[Emma Vigiland]

All right, Brandon, what's happening on the Discourse?

[Brandon]

Oh, yeah, well, I mean, we're going to do a lot of fun stuff over the next week because I'm the kind of person who celebrates my birthday over multiple days. So you'll just have to tune in over on YouTube and Twitch the with Brandon. I will say we are on the road to 20k and so if you want to be one of the first 20k people to be a Discourse member so that in a few weeks from now when we're at 2 million, you can tell all your friends, like, yeah, I was an early adopter. He's not cool anymore. He used to be a lot smarter. He say a lot more slurs before he got popular. Like you have only a few more days to get up in Adam. So yeah, no, definitely check it out. People are loving it. There's a new Alex Jones clip that I put up right before we got on here.

[Emma Vigiland]

Well, I saw you were on Crystal, Kyle and Friends. That's pretty. That was pretty fun. Now, you know, good advertising for. For the Discourse.

[Brandon]

Yes, it is. Absolutely. Like I said, I'm always willing to go places when I'm invited and I loved to be the friend between Crystal and Kyle. It was a very engaging conversation and definitely check it out over there and I'm going to post it too. And I know my tone of voice can be a rye and dry, but I'm serious, I thought it was really, you know, great.

[Emma Vigiland]

I thought it was really great. And once again, you are. You're always making points that I've never. I never thought to think of or make me see something differently. So I'm saying I'm giving you a compliment. Okay.

[Brandon]

I deserve.

[Emma Vigiland]

Yeah. Too much emotional exposure. Okay, we're going to head into the fun half. Maybe we will try to take some calls today because we haven't all week, so we will call into the phones. See you in the fun half.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Okay. Emma, please.

[Emma Vigiland]

Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority report. Wait, whoa.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Look, Sam is unpopular.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

I do deserve a vacation at Disney World. So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show.

[Emma Vigiland]

It is Thursday.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

I think you need this improvement for Sam. Yes, boy. Sir, I'm gonna.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

I'm gonna to pause you right there.

[Emma Vigiland]

Wait, what?

[Francesca Fiorentini]

You can't encourage Emma to live like

[Michael Edison Hayden]

this, and I'll tell you why.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Who was offered a tour, sushi and poker with boys. Tour, sushi and poker with boys. Who was offered a tour, sushi and poker with the boys? Twerk, sushi and poker.

[Emma Vigiland]

Tim's of set.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Twerk, sushi and poker with Turk. Boys was offered a twerk, sushi and that's what we call biz. Dwer Sushi and bulker with two boys. Right. Twerk, sushi and bulker.

[Emma Vigiland]

We're gonna get demonetized.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

I just think that what you did to Tim Pool was mean.

[Emma Vigiland]

Free speech.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about him. I think you're responsible.

[Emma Vigiland]

I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Twerk, sushi and poker with the boys.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Binder]

Wow.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Sushi, sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered sushi and poker with the boys.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Logic.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Sushi and poker with the boys. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like. Okay. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Add this debate 7,000 times. I'm not trying to be a dip right now, but, like, I absolutely, absolutely think the US should be providing me with a wife and kids.

[Emma Vigiland]

That's not what we're talking about here.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

It's not a fun job tour. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. Willy Walker. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. That's a real thing. That's offered with work. Gentlemen. Joe Rogan has done it again. That's a real thing.

[Brandon]

I think he might be blowing it

[Francesca Fiorentini]

out proportion real fit that's got offered. That's a real thing. Let's go, Joey. Sushi and poker with the boy.

[Matt Binder]

Take it easy.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Sushi and poker? Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker with the boys. You don't have a clue cluest of what's going on live YouTube.

[Emma Vigiland]

Sam has like the weight of the world on his shoulders. Want to do this show anymore?

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Anymore?

[Emma Vigiland]

It was so much easier when the majority report was just you.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Let's change the subject. Rangers and Nixon.

[Brandon]

Great.

[Guest or caller (unnamed)]

Now shut up.

[Emma Vigiland]

Don't want people saying reckless things on your program.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

That's one of the most difficult parts about this show.

[Emma Vigiland]

This is a pro killing podcast.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

I'm thinking maybe it's we bury the

[Emma Vigiland]

hatchet left his best trump pilot twerk.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Don't be foolish and don't tweet at me. And don't the way Emma has cucked

[Francesca Fiorentini]

all of these people.

[Matt Binder]

Love it.

[Emma Vigiland]

That's where my heart is. So I wrote my honors thesis about it.

[Matt Binder]

Cool.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

She wrote an honest thesis. I guess I should hand the main

[Brandon]

mic to you now.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

You are to the right of the unform policy.

[Emma Vigiland]

We already formed Israel, dude. Are you against us?

[Francesca Fiorentini]

That's a tough a question I haven't answered.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Incredible theme song.

[Emma Vigiland]

Hi bumbler.

[Michael Edison Hayden]

Emma Viglin. Absolutely one of my favorite people actually. Not just in the game like period.