3587 - Trump's Tylenol Turmoil; Dr. Mo Returns from Gaza; Representing Blue Dots w/ Dr. Mohamed Mustafa & Jennifer Welch

Summary

The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3587: "Trump's Tylenol Turmoil; Dr. Mo Returns from Gaza; Representing Blue Dots"
Date: September 23, 2025
Hosts: Emma Viglin (in for Sam Seder), Matt, Brian
Guests: Dr. Mohammed Mustafa, Jennifer Welch

---

Brief Overview

This episode of The Majority Report covers several timely political stories with a focus on Trump's baseless claims linking Tylenol to autism (the "Tylenol Turmoil"), developments in Gaza with on-the-ground insights from Dr. Mohammed Mustafa, and a wide-ranging, irreverent analysis of red state politics and "blue dot" liberals with Jennifer Welch of the "I've Had It" podcast. The tone is the show's trademark blend of sharp analysis, empathy, and deadpan humor, offering both in-depth reporting and comic relief.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump & RFK Jr.’s “Tylenol-Autism” Claims (07:11–21:16)

• Context: Trump and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. held a press conference claiming a link between acetaminophen (Tylenol) use during pregnancy and autism in children.
• Ridicule of Trump’s Pseudoscience:
  • Trump cannot pronounce “acetaminophen,” opting for “Tylenol” instead (08:01).
  • Cites “rumors”—e.g., Cuba has no autism due to lack of Tylenol (09:01–11:43).
• Fact-Checking by Emma and Crew:
  • Cuba’s autism rate is almost identical to the US (11:43).
  • Lack of Tylenol is due to poverty & US embargo, not cause/effect with autism.
  • Tylenol is the recommended painkiller for pregnant women since ibuprofen is unsafe; large-scale Swedish study found no link between prenatal acetaminophen and autism (12:36–13:00).
• Expert Clarification:
  • Dr. Ann Bauer (co-author of the cited study) clarifies (15:21):
    • Short-term use of acetaminophen is low-risk.
    • Risks of not using pain relief in pregnancy (fever) outweigh unproven autism link.
    • Her research is being misused for political gain.
• Underlying Motivations and Impacts:
  • Trump & RFK Jr. promote the “mothers are to blame for autism” narrative, rooted in medical paranoia and right-wing individualism (19:46–21:08).
  • Emma: “[This] is about pathologizing mothers… The problem is you’re taking too much pain relief” (19:46).
  • The real issue is lack of universal health care and public health support.

Memorable Quote:

“The risks that we identified were modest, particularly for short-term use… I don’t think that mothers should get hysterical if they’re pregnant and have used it for a day here or there.”
— Dr. Ann Bauer (15:21)

---

2. Update from Gaza with Dr. Mohammed Mustafa (25:32–59:28)

[Main Interview Begins – 25:32]

• Background: Dr. Mo is an Australian ER doc who completed two missions in Gaza and is now campaigning to build a children’s hospital there.
• On-the-Ground Horrors:
  • Graphic details of casualties; mass casualty events with severe shortages:
    • No painkillers or functioning MRI in hospitals.
    • Makeshift procedures—children dying in agony without supplies (31:14–34:33).
  • Deliberate cruelty: explosives disguised as food tins, drones with crying-child audio to lure targets, sniper attacks on children.
• Systemic Destruction of Infrastructure:
  • Gaza’s medical, food, and journalistic blockades.
  • Bombing of the Turkish cancer hospital; children dying of untreated diseases.
• Famine and Long-Term Trauma:
  • 25% of Gaza in “stage 5 famine”—irreversible starvation, affecting DNA and multiple generations (36:55).
  • Even reintroducing food needs coordinated medical response (37:29).
• Experience of Gaza’s Medical Staff and Survivors:
  • Gazans accept death as inevitable; paramedics act with fatalism—“We’re already dead” (40:25).
  • Western reporting systematically undercounts death toll; many are buried without being counted (43:12).
• Personal Reflection:
  • As a Gazan, Dr. Mo is personally connected—some children he treated shared his last name (46:10).
  • Hypocrisy of Western countries supporting wars that create refugees, then pushing anti-immigration (49:18).
• Call to Action:
  • Need for massive humanitarian, medical intervention, not just aid trucks but full facilities and international staff.
  • Detailed description of the mobile, solar-powered pediatric hospital initiative (57:29).
  • Audience encouraged to donate & share info.

Memorable Quotes:

“People will deny starvation is going on in Gaza… But when you’re on the ground… holding lifeless children… it doesn’t become a talking point.”
— Dr. Mohammed Mustafa (26:12)

“We’re already dead.”
— Gaza paramedic to Dr. Mo on risking his life (40:29)

“It’s not enough to let in aid. There needs to be a coordinated humanitarian response.”
— Dr. Mo (37:29)

Children’s Hospital Project Info:

“Solar-panel powered mobile units… built in Jordan, with operating theaters, labs, quarters… State-of-the-art, ready to go if governments intervene.”
— Dr. Mo (57:35)

---

3. Representing Blue Dots: Interview with Jennifer Welch

(61:37–98:45)

• Jennifer Welch’s Background:
  • Interior designer, "I've Had It" podcast co-host, self-described “liberal wine mom” and blue dot progressive in deep red Oklahoma.
• On Dem Establishment Weakness:
  • Disappointment in establishment Dems (Jeffries, Schumer, Booker): “They want everyone to like them… but nobody does, because you’re inauthentic and don’t stand for anything.” (64:29)
  • Expresses heartbreak and anger as red state liberal cut off from national leadership.
• Empathy for Red State Voters:
  • Understands impulse to blame: “you get what you voted for.”
  • But argues for compassion for manipulated rural/Latino voters but not for “country club Republicans” who consciously enable MAGA for profit (67:09).
• Christian Nationalism & Cultural Control:
  • Explains the intertwining of Christianity and right-wing politics in rural America (“Christian signaling… is all their culture,” 72:22).
  • Church is THE form of community—conservatives fear cities because urban life offers broader, more inclusive community options (75:23).
  • Compares Trump rallies to megachurch events; same psychology, same social function.
• Religious Trauma & the Right’s Strategy:
  • Jennifer calls out religious abuse, shame culture underpinning much of MAGA’s appeal (77:09).
  • Charlie Kirk/Turning Point used college tours to disrupt young people’s first taste of freedom with religious propaganda (78:09).
• On Leadership, Allies, and Democratic Failure:
  • Decries performative appeals to the right: “The whitewashing of [Charlie Kirk’s] legacy is so abhorrent and hurtful… Dems should be ashamed" (85:10).
  • Sees refusal to take a stand for marginalized people as both a moral and political failure.

Memorable Quotes:

“When you aspire for everybody to like you, nobody likes you because you’re inauthentic and you don’t stand for anything.”
— Jennifer Welch (64:29)

“If we could go home, we would. But you steal our land, take away resources, make it unlivable… and then you’re mad we come over here.”
— Dr. Mo (49:18)

“Until we have [rock solid allyship with Black Americans], you see people make excuses for the racism that exists all the time.”
— Jennifer Welch (85:10)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trump mangles “acetaminophen”:
  “Effective immediately, the FDA will be notifying physicians that the use of acid– well, let’s see how we say that– acid, acetaminophen. Is that okay?” (08:28)
• Gaza ER triage, without resources:
  "I would have to get my scalpel and just cut through a child's chest… because we can't wait for painkillers." — Dr. Mo (31:05)
• Western hypocrisy & refugee crisis:
  “You tell us to go back home… after you supported our displacement…” — Dr. Mo (49:18)
• Dems’ moral vacancy:
  "I think the Democratic establishment has a brand of pick me politics. … And nobody likes you because you're inauthentic." — Jennifer Welch (64:29)
• “Cookout-approved whites”:
  “As a white American, I think all of us should aspire to be cookout-approved whites.” — Jennifer Welch (85:10)
• On religious trauma:
  “My cohost Pumps… thought people lived to be 950 years old. She’s been to law school. … Indoctrinated not to critically think.” — Jennifer Welch (78:09)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• 07:11 — Trump and RFK Jr.’s Tylenol-autism press conference
• 11:43 — Cuba and Amish “don’t get autism” falsehoods debunked
• 15:21 — Dr. Ann Bauer interview clarifies Tylenol study
• 25:32 — Dr. Mohammed Mustafa interview: Gaza, the blockade, hospital initiative
• 36:55 — Generational trauma and famine in Gaza explained
• 43:12 — Why Gaza’s death toll is radically underreported
• 46:10 — Personal stories and Western anti-immigrant hypocrisy
• 57:29 — Details on the mobile children’s hospital effort
• 61:37 — Jennifer Welch interview: being “blue dot” Democrat, Dem establishment critique
• 85:10 — Whitewashing of right-wing bigotry, need for allyship
• 98:45 — End of main show, fun half begins

---

Flow & Takeaways

This episode exemplifies The Majority Report's strengths: cutting through right-wing fear-mongering and pseudoscience with clear, cited fact-checking; platforming ground-level experts like Dr. Mo for real human context; and mixing sharp, sometimes biting, humor with deep-seated compassion for the most marginalized. The conversations with both Dr. Mo and Jennifer Welch effectively tie individual experience to systemic critique, while audience questions and lively banter keep the tone accessible and engaging.

Listeners who missed the live show will get:

• A deep debunking of the Tylenol-autism scare.
• Firsthand reporting on Gaza’s crisis, needs, and hope.
• Insight into the disillusionment—and strategic necessity—of blue dot liberals in red states.
• A frank assessment of the Democratic Party’s failures and the urgent need for accountable, courageous opposition to right-wing extremism.

Overall: urgent, human, and darkly funny coverage for a fraught political moment.

Transcript

[Emma Viglin]

Hey folks, it is officially fall and our farmer friends at Sunset Lake Saba Day are busy in the fields in full harvest mode right now. They are literally out there cutting and hanging fresh hemp flower in their drying rooms, getting the new crop ready for release later this year. And while they're busy doing all the hard work, you get to reap the rewards. From now until the 28th, you can grab any of their smokeable hemp products for free. 40% off with the code flower power25. One word, that's 40% flower power25. Whether you're trying to relax with the high or you want to cut back on tobacco or maybe just, you know, stretch out the sash a little further for what Sam calls the entourage effect we discovered the other day. They have got the goods. I have Multiple Sunset Lake 7 products right here on my desk, including the relax gummies that I occasionally pop right before my walk home.

[Matt]

I got the Delta 9 gummies.

[Emma Viglin]

You got the Delta 9 gummies right in your hand.

[Matt]

Little jolt.

[Emma Viglin]

I have the lotion that I really typically rely on in the winter. And last night I forgot to have my sunset like goodnight gummies before brushing my teeth. So I had them after. Had to brush again but still tasted good.

[Brian]

I shotgunned a tea alone before the packers game.

[Emma Viglin]

Go crazy. But it really is good stuff. I mean they use regenerative farming practices, integrated pest management. They have great practices in terms of paying their workers a living wage, $22 minimum wage. I believe they have worked with us on fundraising and independently fundraise for refugee resettlement, strike funds and more. SunsetLakeSafeBAE.com is where you can go to get their products and get up to 40% off of any smokeable hemp products. With the code FLOWERPOWER25, head over to SunsetLakeSeba DE.com and use the code FLOWERPOWER25 to save 40% off on all their sun grown flower pre rolls and even vapor cartridges. This sale ends September 28th at 11:59pm Eastern. See their site for terms and conditions. And now time for the show.

[Brian]

The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.

[Emma Viglin]

It is Tuesday, September 23, 2025. My name is Emma Viland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today, Dr. Mohammad Mustafa, an Australian ER doctor who just finished two missions in Gaza and is now working to get a children's hospital built. He'll be with us in studio and later in the show, Jennifer Welch of the I've had it podcast joins us to make fun of some right wingers, of course. Also on the program, ABC announces they're bringing Jimmy Kimmel's show back after overwhelming backlash from Hollywood and basically anyone that cares about free speech. And FCC chair Carr is now claiming that his we can do this the easy way or the hard way comments about Kimmel weren't meant as a threat. How silly of us to interpret it as such. But Sinclair, which operates dozens of ABC affiliates, will not air the show. And nexstar, the conglomerate desperate for Trump to approve their merger, is still silent. Trump used his platform yesterday to baselessly link Tylenol use during pregnancy to autism. More on that in a second. Meanwhile, the Defense Department shelves its planned cleanup of forever chemicals at over 100 military sites. More cancer for our veterans in the surrounding areas. Is that a central Make America great again promise? Democrats launch a probe into Tom Homan for taking allegedly a $50,000 cash bribe from an undercover FBI agent. Trump's executive order declaring Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization appears to be totally unenforceable, but it keeps him busy signing things.

[Jennifer Welch]

That's what I like to do.

[Emma Viglin]

I think Joy.

[Matt]

And Joy Behar's Antifa.

[Emma Viglin]

I said it to me.

[Matt]

So Antifa Joy.

[Emma Viglin]

Trump cancels a meeting. You. You miss an. He would have picked Whoopi because she's a black woman.

[Matt]

Right.

[Emma Viglin]

Trump cancels a meeting with the Democrats over the looming government shutdown. Schumer's gonna demand a meeting even harder. Now Silicon Valley starts to grumble about Trump's immigration crackdown, particularly the on the H1B visas.

[Matt]

Oh. So it starts affecting them. Yeah, it's fine when, you know, restaurant workers are getting thrown into who knows where.

[Emma Viglin]

Right.

[Brian]

Maybe they want their maids still.

[Emma Viglin]

That's true. Macron announces that France is officially recognizing Palestinian statehood, but Israeli tanks press on and on into northern Gaza. Trump plans to meet with Arab leaders at the UN Today, where he gave his typical unifying speech declaring that other member countries are. Let me check my notes. Going to hell. And lastly, Elon Musk's father is accused of sexually assaulting multiple of his children. Not shocked. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show, everybody. It is an M Majority Report Tuesday. Whoa. Shocker. I know Sam is out today for Rosh Hashanah. Happy holidays to the Cedar Clan. Hello to Matt, hello to Brian. And we will have Dr. Mo, Dr. Mohammed Mustafa with us in just a bit in studio. So that's the perk of Sam being out. He gets to sit in the big chair.

[Matt]

The power vacuum that's going to be filled.

[Emma Viglin]

Exactly. Looking forward to chatting and having the treat to have an in person guest today. And then of course, Jennifer Welch. Been a long time coming, having her on the show.

[Matt]

Very exciting.

[Emma Viglin]

Very exciting. So, as I mentioned Yesterday, Trump and RFK Jr held a press conference where they linked Tylenol to autism because RFK Jr had a hard deadline from Trump. Harder than the deadlines Trump imposes on himself for like things like tariffs. All of those are very two weeks to two months. They're semi hard to soft deadlines and. But Bobby had to deliver for him here. He apparently found the cure for autism in less than a year with his work as HHS secretary. And I find it interesting that they are kind of naming the brand specifically and not the active ingredient. I mean, they're doing both. But Trump is. This is not what a lawyer would advise.

[Brian]

It's literally because he can't pronounce acetaminophen.

[Emma Viglin]

Okay.

[Brian]

That's why he's saying it.

[Emma Viglin]

And there's a video of him trying to pronounce acetaminophen. But. So we'll play it now because I was, I was not sure if I wanted to play this if I couldn't stick the landing of pronouncing it myself. But thanks, Brian, for dipping his toe in first. This is Trump yesterday at the press conference speaking about this.

[Steve Inskeep]

Effective immediately, the FDA will be notifying physicians that the use of acid. Well, let's see how we say that acid, acetaminophen. Is that okay. Which is basically commonly known as Tylenol during pregnancy can be associated with a very increased risk of autism.

[Matt]

Very. Oh, wow.

[Brian]

What was his mother taking?

[Emma Viglin]

Very increased risk.

[Matt]

Sounds very scientific, sir.

[Emma Viglin]

His mother's like, you know, I just kept it to one bottle of wine a day. Okay.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Exactly.

[Emma Viglin]

And he turned out great. That's a spurious allegation. I was just joking around. It's just a joke. We have no proof of that being the case. Anyway. That was an insane moment. I feel like the science just washed over me listening to that beautiful mind speak. Here he is with more evidence as. As to why this is the case, citing Cuba as an example of a place. He both cited Amish people and Cuba as places that don't. Are.

[Matt]

As Amish people don't get ADHD and Cubans don't get or don't get autism.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah, yeah. According to him, also, there could be factors by the way in that Amish claim, in that there's a more enclosed kind of gene pool, the fact that there's maybe less variants, but also, dude, they have lower reporting of cases of autism because they don't engage with modern science and medicine in the same way. It's the same way he viewed Covid. It's like, if Amish people don't report autism, it doesn't exist. Here he is now talking about how Cuba doesn't have autism.

[Steve Inskeep]

Apparently, this country is going through what parts of the world are going through. And I will say there are parts of the world that don't take Tylenol. I mean, there's a rumor, and I don't know if it's so or not, that Cuba.

[Matt]

Can I stop you there, Mr. President?

[Emma Viglin]

Rumor.

[Matt]

There's a rumor, and I don't know if it's true or not. Why is this being brought up?

[Emma Viglin]

I mean, the lack of responsibility with using the bully pulpit like this to speak about medicine. It's just so irresponsible. And we'll get to how they actually kind of know that they're being dishonest. Their own paper on this has a little paragraph that. That shows that they're being untruthful. But, I mean, let's let him riff on important public health. He sets it up.

[Brian]

We don't have this in the beginning. He goes, bobby wants to be careful about his words, but I won't. That's literally what he said.

[Emma Viglin]

That's a promise.

[Steve Inskeep]

Country's going through what parts of the world are going through. And I will say there are parts of the world that don't take Tylenol. I mean, there's a rumor, and I don't know if it's so or not, that Cuba, they don't have Tylenol because they don't have the money for Tylenol, and they have virtually no autism. Okay, tell me about that one. And there are other parts of the world where they don't have Tylenol. Where they don't have autism. That tells you a lot.

[Emma Viglin]

Cuba has an autism rate of 83.3 per 10,000 children in 2023, according to data from the Autism and Developmental Disab Disabilities monitoring network. The US rate was 80.90, the same data shows. So that's more than the United States. Secondly, they don't have the brand name Tylenol. Why might that be?

[Matt]

Could it be they don't have the money for it? They can't afford it?

[Emma Viglin]

That, that the Republicans. And, you know, that was One of the better things Obama did too was trying to normalize relations with Cuba and Biden scrapped that. And Trump has been even more hawkish.

[Matt]

We have a half centuries long collective punishment policy toward Cubans, basically restricting sorts of products on them because we don't like that they overthrew a sort of, I mean, a slave society.

[Emma Viglin]

And they didn't like that. You know, capitalists couldn't get a piece of the pie, whether it be drilling in Cuba or their natural resources or.

[Matt]

Their casinos that they had in Cuba before under the Batista regime.

[Emma Viglin]

So that's why they don't have Tylenol, not because they're too poor. In fact, they may be, yeah, poorer than the United States because of the embargo we're talking about. But their health care care outcomes, lap ours, their life expectancy, their educational outcomes, better than the United States. Now, obviously these, we have to treat these kinds of statements with a bit of care, unlike the administration, because we're talking about medical information here. So acetaminophen, all right, I said it. Which is the active ingredient in Tylenol that he's referring to, is an essential medicine that prevents fevers. And in pregnant people, high fevers can pose a risk to the fetus. And Tylenol is important because ibuprofen, another option for say pain relief and fever reduction is not, that's Advil, that's Motrin, that's not safe for people who are pregnant. Tylenol had been considered, is considered a safer option in that way. And this was backed up, this was backed up by this large study by the Swedish University and Drexel where they looked at 2 million children in Sweden and they took the genetics and they took a family environment into account and they found no link between acetaminophen exposure and increased risk of autism. But there is that study that Sam did talk about, I believe, or at least the litigation surrounding some of this, where they were not successful yesterday. But here is Dr. Ann Bauer, the co author of the study that they keep citing here, the study that looked at the use of acetaminophen during pregnancy, speaking to cbs. There was some quote in another publication where she said she was sick to her stomach, that her paper was being used in this way. And this is her, the doctor, explaining what the findings actually said. We begin tonight at the White House where President Donald Trump held a press conference focused on autism. During his remarks, he suggested a possible link between the use of acetaminophen during pregnancy and an increased risk of autism in Children. Today I spoke with the co author of a study published last month in the journal Environmental Health. Now the research linked prenatal use of acetaminophen to an increased incidence of disorders from autism and ADHD. But today, Dr. Ann Bauer stressed to me that the link she found requires a lot more research.

[Dr. Ann Bauer]

The risks that we identified were modest, particularly for short term use.

[Emma Viglin]

When we.

[Dr. Ann Bauer]

See the highest risk is for people who use it for an extended period of time. So I don't think that mothers should get hysterical if they're pregnant and have used it for a day here or there. But they should not be using it as the first line of defense of any minor discomfort that they experience. They should be trying to use non pharmaceutical interventions first. But it has its time and its place. While we strongly support precaution and warning pregnant women about the use of acetaminophen during pregnancy for things like nuisance pain and mild discomfort, acetaminophen is really one of the only tools we have for pregnant women. They are not allowed to use ibuprofen or aspirin during pregnancy. Things like high fever and extreme pain can cause severe outcomes and harm fetal development. Now there should be a discussion between a woman and her physician before she takes it, but I think doctors are afraid to even mention this in the past because they don't want to lose this tool in their toolbox. And it's a very nuanced our statement that sometimes you still will need to use this, this medication.

[Emma Viglin]

All right, so there is the nuance that is necessary.

[Matt]

Allow me to enter this conversation, but.

[Emma Viglin]

I will make a bunch of allegations without evidence. So she's in favor, in summary, I guess of the White House kind of putting something on the Tylenol label, just basically saying use this drug judiciously, don't use it all the time, maybe to mitigate risk. And we still don't know if that would be the case. Right. But if for discomfort reasons, if you have a fever, this needs to still be a tool in the toolbox to prevent the worst outcomes of say high fever in children. And so this is inconclusive at best. But this is the guy.

[Matt]

It's precautionary. Like this is pretty common in medicine as far as I'm not a doctor and we'll have a doctor on soon, but this is how they sort of talk just. And she didn't say there has been and I'm not sure, I haven't read the paper, but at least it doesn't establish as far as I'm aware a causal relationship with ADHD and autism with Tylenol?

[Emma Viglin]

No, but the FDA admits. By the way, this is Steve Inskeep from npr went to the bottom of the FBA FDA statement on this where they signal parents to avoid acetaminophen, except sometimes. And then it says, let's open the. Here it is. It might be the next slide. It's important to note that while an association between acetaminophen and neurological conditions has been described in many studies, a causal relationship has not been established and there are contrary studies in the scientific literature. It is also noted that acetaminophen is the only over the counter drug approved for use to treat fevers during pregnancy and high fevers in pregnant women can pose a risk to their children. Additionally, aspirin and ibuprofen have well documented adverse impacts on the fetus. They have to cover their ass legally at the bottom paragraph of their statement on this. But everything prior to that is to appease Donald Trump, who has embraced this fixation on autism that RFK Jr has employed, where it's mostly about pathologizing children and giving parents this false sense of control and even hierarchy if they have, if they can compare their health, their healthy kids to God forbid, somebody with autism down the street. I made the right choices. I'm empowered in the exact right way.

[Matt]

See, you know, not even pathologizing children. Doesn't it seem like it's pathologizing mothers?

[Emma Viglin]

Yes.

[Matt]

Where Kennedy and Trump get together and say, the problem is you're taking too much pain relief.

[Emma Viglin]

The problem that we have in this country with health care is related to the fact it is because we do not guarantee it and we do not have universal health care like essentially every other Western industrialized nation. And what this libertarian health care approach is about, which is one, treating people with autism or with disabilities as friends who never play taxes, who can't participate in society, and almost as a pathogen that needs to be outrooted, as opposed to autism being a spectrum and many folks on the autism spectrum contributing greatly to our society, despite what RFK would.

[Matt]

Say, I'll never pay dollar in taxes.

[Emma Viglin]

And lastly, it's about making it so that you feel empowered over your health care individually, but without there being any concept of public health or communality to it or community.

[Matt]

Right. Because just one quick note is that doctor said what should happen is the patient should have a conversation or relationship with their doctor where they talk about things. Do we, do we finance that in this country? No.

[Emma Viglin]

No. But the brain worm told RFK so We have to all comply now.

[Matt]

Glad that sorted.

[Emma Viglin]

In a moment we will be talking to Dr. Mohamed Mustafa. But first a word from a few of our sponsors. Deleteme is a product that I started using before I even joined the Majority Report, let alone before the knowing that they were a sponsor of our show. Delete Me makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time where surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable, it's easier than ever to find personal information about people online. Having your address, phone number and family members names hanging out on the Internet can have actual consequences in the real world and make everyone vulnerable. You know, especially in my case, if you're talking about things online, you can be a little inflammatory, you can piss some people off, you might get some harassment. I've been able to really limit that because of Delete Me things. You know, I mean my, my family members have got to get it too, honestly, because it, it protects people beyond myself as well. Honestly, Delete me. But if you want that extra protection, Delete Me is the way to go for everybody. More and more online partisans and nefarious actors will find this data and use it to target political rivals, civil servants and even outspoken critics. Citizens posting their opinions online. With Deleteme, you can protect your personal privacy or the privacy of your business from doxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited. The New York Times Wirecutter has named Delete Me their top pick for data removal services. Thank you to Deleteme for sponsoring the Majority Report. What's cool is Deleteme, it sends you reports about what it's scraping from the Internet so you know it's working and it's continuous. So it's just catching a lot of this stuff that can leave you vulnerable. And it's an essential for me take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. And get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com Majority and use promo code Majority at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com Majority and enter code Majority at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Majority code Majority link down below in the YouTube and episode descriptions and at Majority FM. And lastly, if you like deep, thoughtful, progressive analysis, which of course Majority Report listeners do, you will love the print and digital edition of Current affairs magazine. Current affairs combines intelligent commentary, biting political satire and gorgeous artwork to produce one of the country's most elegant and informative magazines. And it is all ad free. Current affairs is a fantastic complement to the Majority Report's work, delivering hard hitting, totally independent and entertaining coverage of the most important political, social and economic issues of our time. Said this before. Love, Nathan Robinson, love the work that they do over there and all of the other journalists at Current Affairs. I find myself, you know, because we read the packet every day. You know, you get the basics about the news. I find myself more drawn to magazine pieces because you do these deep dives and no one does it better than Current affairs. Use code MAJORITYREPORT1 word for 30% off for a year on any subscription of your Choice. Go to currentaffairs.org subscribe and enter code majorityreport at checkout. Again, that's currentaffairs.org subscribe and Enter the code majorityreport at checkout for 30% off on any subscription of your choice. The offer expires October 31st. Thanks to current affairs for partnering with us on that. And now we don't even need to take a little break because we have our guest in studio, Dr. Mohammed Mustafa, Australian ER doctor who completed two medical missions in Gaza and is now working to get a children's hospital built in the region. Dr. Mo, as you're often called, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

No, thank you for having me, ma'. Am. I'm a big fan. So it's a bit surreal being in here.

[Emma Viglin]

Oh, yeah. What's your impression? I mean, we talked about it a little bit before, but you were saying how different.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Like, I thought this was going to be like a big studio project and Jeremy.

[Emma Viglin]

Well, don't, don't say where we are.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

No, I won't say where you are. But, like, let's just say I was surprised. I was surprised. But, hey, listen, man, it's made me even more impressed.

[Emma Viglin]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

With how you get things done. So fair play to us.

[Emma Viglin]

And you've, you did Piers Morgan show. A little bit of a different setup, huh?

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, there's a lot of money behind that show.

[Emma Viglin]

They, when I did it, they, they, yeah, they sent me like a van where I, you can, it's all lit up and it's all rigged and stuff. So it's like a satellite van. That's how I did it. But you did the studio in London.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sat next to people, you know, look, it was a. I think it's important, you know, with somebody like that, that when you're talking to somebody on a screen, it's very easy just to like, right, to not see them as an individual. But I thought it was important for the message that I was getting across to peers, that we sit face to face and we have a conversation as human beings about the situation in Gaza. Because, you know, for a lot of people, it's just like a political talking point. You know, Gaza, you know, people will deny starvation is going on in Gaza. People will deny that, you know, children are targeted and they're just talking points. But when you're on the ground in Gaza and you're holding lifeless children, you're holding kids with heads missing and you're taking plastic bags of mothers and inside them are melted children, it doesn't become a talking point to somebody like me. And that's why I felt like, you know, it's important when we do these shows as doctors, it's important that we bring the human element to this, that there is a real human cost to what's going on in Gaza. People are not just being killed, they are being killed in the most grotesque, inhumane ways at a large mass scale. This is, you know, I've been with there, we're with doctors in Gaza who have been to Mosul when there was the ISIS fighting in Syria, in Afghanistan, in Iraq. And all of them have said the same thing. They've never seen anything like Gaza. And nothing can prepare you when you go into Gaza. I mean, I was there for some of the worst mass casualty events of the war. I was there last year when they rescued the four Israeli hostages and they killed and injured like 1,400 people in two hours. I was there the night the ceasefire broke where they killed 200 children in an hour. Now, remember, these are just reported. There are many hundreds that are under the rubble that don't get reported. So how many were killed is just unbelievable. But you know, when you come in and they. The entire ER room floor is just filled with children's bodies, children with limbs missing who are crying with their intestines hanging out and you don't even have painkillers. We don't even have painkillers in the hospital. And you're just watching a child with his intestines hanging out, taking his last breath. I mean, this is really what's going on in Gaza. And it's hard for me to debate with somebody whether this is even real or not. Like, these are human beings, they deserve a level of dignity and they deserve for us to talk about this without it being Used as a political pawn. And, you know, that was part of the reason why when I came out of Gaza, I felt like I had to. We had to do something about this. We can't have children dying on the streets, on the floor in Gaza because the hospitals are overcrowded while the hospitals are being bombed, while we're treating these kids. Something needs to change. And, you know, the ghf, you know, bringing food into Gaza while shooting at women and children, starving women and children. Like, we can't have that either. What we need is, we need a solution. And the solution is, is these states that are responsible for arming and funding this genocide need to be responsible for saving these children's lives. And that's what the campaign has been about. It's been about going to these governments, getting them to talk to us, getting them to sign on to and committing to bringing this hospital in to Gaza.

[Emma Viglin]

How many countries have you been to since leaving Gaza to try to lobby for this effort now?

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Man, I've traveled all over. Look, I've been to Ireland, I've been to the uk Obviously, Australia. I'm here in America. We're heading to Canada soon. Who I've been to Italy to help with the flotilla, to try and break the naval blockade. Because, you know, what they're trying to do is they're trying to open a humanitarian corridor. You know, if that opens a humanitarian corridor, we get in medical supplies through the sea. I've just been doing whatever I can. Even Egypt, I went to Egypt for the march of. Of return when they tried to march to break the siege at Rafa Crossing. I've been everywhere, supporting every single cause to try and break this siege. Because this isn't just about the overall siege on Gaza. There is a journalistic siege on Gaza where journalists aren't allowed in. There's a food siege on Gaza where food isn't allowed in. There's a medical blockade on Gaza. There is a science blockade on Gaza. You know, all of these things, one of them has to go. There's an air blockade, there's a naval blockade, there's a land blockade. One of these dominoes has to fall. And me as a doctor, what I can try and do is I can try and break the medical blockade on Gaza because if we break that, that is our way in and hope hopefully that will act as a domino effect and we'll break all these other blockades that are going on in Gaza.

[Emma Viglin]

Can you speak a little bit about the impact of the medical blockade? I know you mentioned, of course, that there is no pain medication. But what are some of the other medical tools and necessities that have been blocked in the blockade?

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

You know, there's no functioning MRI machine in the whole of Gaza. There's not a single functioning MRI machine. So there's 2 million people. Well, whatever is left of Gaza.

[Emma Viglin]

Right.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

And there's no functioning MRI machine in the north of Gaza. Where I was working at the Baptist Hospital, we had one CT scanner. Now when you have a mass casualty event and you have, you know, 100, 200 people being brought in and they all need a CT scanner, we literally had people dying waiting for a CT scan at, when we went down south to Al Aqsa Hospital, the CT scanner that they had there doesn't work. So what we would have to do is, is we would intubate patients in the ER and the resuscitation, you know, these would be people that we would be putting in chest strains, we would be cutting open their chest to try and restart their heart medication. Well, you know, I mean, look, that there is some form of pain medication there. You know, there's ketamine. But like when you've got a mass casualty event and you've got hundreds of people in there, right, and you've got people who are unstable, you can't wait for a nurse to go get you the ketamine, right? So what would happen is I would have to get my scalpel and I would just have to cut through the child's chest, you know, to get a chest drain in, because it's not that we didn't have. And look, we're limited with supplies of anesthetics and painkillers that we have, but there's not even the staff levels involved that we can actually, you know, get the painkillers involved, you know, abort in time to do, to, to do these procedures safely. And, you know, when we do these procedures, there's a lot of risk of giving ketamine because ketamine can cause things like a laryngeal spasmodic for kids, which can, you know, block their airway. You know, we don't even have sats monitoring. We can't even monitor children. You know, they're on the floor, I can't monitor their breathing on the floor. And therefore, if you give them something, you might cause a respiratory distress in a child. You might actually kill them from the drug that you give them because we can't monitor them properly. So, you know, there's a cost benefit analysis. If I'm giving a child ketamine and they're outside, on the outside, the er, because it's overflown. If anything happens to that child's airway, will I have enough medical equipment and will I have enough doctors and nurses around me to help secure this child's airway? The answer is no. So, you know, sometimes we make a decision not to give a child painkillers because we don't have, you know, the necessary doctors and nurses to monitor them. So, you know, look, the situation is beyond catastrophic in Gaza. There are so many people in Gaza as well who have cancer and there's no chemotherapy drugs getting into Gaza. They, the, while I was there, they bombed the Turkish cancer hospital and destroyed that. And that was a new building before the start of the war. That's completely gone. So you've got, you know, children with cancer who have no form of treatment and are slowly dying from cancer in Gaza, as well as being starved to death, as well as being bombed to death. I mean, you know, when you look at this and you. The level of cruelty, when you have drones coming down and, you know, in Arabic saying, you're alone here, the Arabs have left you, they give us weapons and money and they give you sheaths, you know, to cover yourselves in cloths for your burial. There's, there's, there's a psychological warfare there. When these quadcopters come down and make noises of crying children so people can come out of their tents and house to see where there is potentially a child that is in distress. And actually it's to lure them out to shoot them.

[Emma Viglin]

Yes, I remember those reports.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Yeah.

[Emma Viglin]

So you can confirm that too, from your experience, that these Israeli drones are. Are regularly playing audio as a way to either trick. Trick folks or, or lure them to kill them or harm them psychologically?

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Well, you know, they leave tins, tins look like tins of food out and they're explosive. So kids, because they're so hungry, they find this tin and they think it's a tin of food, and when they open it, it explodes and it blows off their hands. There's never been this level of cruelty in my lifetime. I'm a young guy. But, you know, many people that I've talked to within the UN and within these aid organizations have never seen the deliberate targeting of children on this mass scale before. You know, I've dealt with, you know, I was there, you know, before the ceasefire broke, we were seeing kids coming in that had been shot in the head by snipers, targeted. And, you know, this. These would be children, would be the Youngest child in a family. So they would be in the, at home, a quadcopter would come in to the window and it would just shoot the youngest child and leave. It wouldn't kill the rest of the family, it would just kill the youngest child. That you know. And you know, we've seen this, we've seen, you know, the leaked videos from the GHF where they're laughing as they shoot people. We've seen before when it was the march of return, when soldiers are and putting up videos of them shooting children in the genitalia and laughing and high fiving when they do it. This hasn't been just the start in Gaza. This is what they're doing to human beings. And the idea of getting this hospital into Gaza is they've destroyed and bombed pretty much every single hospital in Gaza. And I need, I need the world to, to join force that you can't just condemn what's going on and leave these people to die. These children are the largest cohort of child amputees in the world. These children are the largest per capit of orphans. These children are malnutritioned to a stage 5. Malnutrition means that their DNA changes.

[Emma Viglin]

Can you speak more about that? Because that is how you know when we talk about generational trauma.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Yeah.

[Emma Viglin]

This is what happened to victims of the Holocaust where you have a level of starvation that changes you and your descendants for the rest of time. There are thousands and thousands of Palestinians already in that irreversible stage.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

It appears so. You know, right now the reports are that 25 of Gaza is in stage 5 famine. Stage 5 famine means that 2 out of every 10,000 adults die a day and 4 out of every 10,000 children die a day from starvation. Half the population is in stage four, which means two out of every 10,000 children a day die and one out of every 10,000 adults a day die from starvation. These are scary numbers. This also means that even if we were to bring food into Gaza, it wouldn't fix the problem.

[Emma Viglin]

Right.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

And people actually might die from bringing food in. Because what happens is you get things like refeeding syndrome, where their electrolytes and their salt levels are so low in their body that if I was to introduce food, it could overwhelm the body and cause things like an arrhythmia or heart attacks. Hence why it's not just enough for governments to say we need to let aid in. There needs to be a coordinated humanitarian response. And that's what I've been on the road campaigning for. I have been trying to get governments to say, look, it's not just good enough just to say we need to get more food in. We need to get an entire fleet of doctors and nurses with medical equipment and medical facilities into Gaza. These people have got some of the worst burns, some of the worst advanced stage cancers, some of the worst malnutrition. And all of this needs medical expertise and help. And we're not going to do it by just opening up a border and letting in a few trucks of aid. You know, healthcare workers have been targeted. Over 1,500 healthcare workers in Gaza have been killed. You know, they don't have the capacity to deal with what's going on. They need, they need us. The people of Gaza need us as humanitarian workers, as healthcare workers. They need us to come in in abundance to help and we need to come in with medical equipment. You know, right now at the borders, the idf, you know, they take away from you baby formula, they take away from you your pocket ultrasound. You know, they were arguing with us about even bringing in our stethoscop. Gaza, this is deliberate systemic destruction of the healthcare system. And I think, you know, people, again, like, you know, people debate this like it's political talking points, but this is real life. This is a real systematic destruction of the healthcare system in Gaza. And it's the extinction of life in Gaza. And the only way that you fight back against the genocide is by bringing life. And the way that you bring life is a hospital. And that's what I've been trying to do.

[Emma Viglin]

And Israel has destroyed all of the farmland. It's basically, they're unable to produce their own food. And that is why starvation is as acute as you say, because they are entirely reliant on aid coming in which Israel is blocking in the siege, you mentioned some of the medical professionals that have been targeted. What is your sense of their awareness and some of your colleagues of their understanding of Israel's willingness to kill them and target hospitals?

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Well, the actual hospital ground staff in Gaza, yeah. Do you know, look, in Gaza, people there accept death as part of life. You know, when I would be there, they would always say to me, no, look, you're our guest, it's okay if we die, but we, we don't want you to be, we don't want you to be killed. So like, you know, you stay here, you don't go out and do this. We'll transfer the patients, not you. Death has become so common in Gaza that like, you know, when I was speaking to the paramedics These were the paramedics that went and retrieved the bodies of the killed paramedics in Gaza. Because I was there when they killed them, and I was there when they retrieved the bodies.

[Emma Viglin]

Ones where they zip tied them and. And tried to buried them alive. Buried them alive. Yeah.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

And I would. And I said to the paramedic, I went, are you not scared, like, of what would happen to you? And, you know, he was smiling and, you know, we stopped off and he bought me a coffee and I had a Mars bar and I gave him like, a Mars bar, and he got me a coffee. And I said to him, you're not scared, but this will be you next. And he said to me, we're already dead. We're already dead. And that's how he embraced it. He just embraced that like it wasn't a matter of if he was going to die, it was just when. But they'd already embraced the fact that death is there. And that's the majority of how Gazans feel. They feel like death is an inevitable for them, and it's just a matter of when. And, you know, that. That to me speaks to the mental health of the people of Palestine and the people of Gaza. You know, a lot of people, like, we dehumanize them, you know, on the right side where they, they dehumanize them and they say, they're all Hamas, they're all just human shields. And, you know, flattened Gaza, that's the dehumanization. But on the left, a lot of people dehumanize people in Gaza and they go, oh, they're so resilient. You know, they, they will withstand anything.

[Emma Viglin]

Romanticizing it.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

They romanticize their resilience. And, you know, these are human beings. And I've seen them break down and cry. I've seen women hold their lifeless children's bodies and fall to the floor. I've seen fathers be inconsolable. These. These are real things and these aren't. They aren't superhuman. They're just human, like me and you. Yes, they have a. An increased level of resistance compared to the average person, but they need help. They don't need us to romanticize them. They don't need us to belittle them either. On the right side, what they need is they need help, and they need us to come together and work out that, like, look, you know, within this movement, like, it doesn't matter if people agree with my talking points or what I think of the political situation on which countries or this, that and the other. What we need is is we need people to work together to help relieve this situation in Gaza because it is catastrophic.

[Emma Viglin]

You spoke a little bit about this, but I'm wondering if you can elaborate on the lack of understanding about the true death toll. I talk about this all the time on the show. I'm sure some people in the audience are sick of it, but I just feel like we need to emphasize it every time because the Western press is completely complicit in the genocide in many ways. But the one that's most egregious to this day, in my view, is the repeating of the wildly undercounted death toll in Gaza. Can you speak about what that looks like on the ground and, and why there is such a discrepancy?

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

You know, if. If I've got a dead child, right, why would I risk walking? Because there's, you know, there's no fuel for the cars and, and I don't have money to, to pay for a donkey cart. Why would I pay to take the child to the hospital to have a doctor to say, yep, the child is dead for then men, then me to take the child back to bury? It makes no sense. It's dangerous. I've got other children that I need to look after. So what families do is they just bury them there and then outside on the street. What also happens is, is, you know, when we have paramedics coming, when there's a home that's been bombed, you know, because right now, because all these homes have been destroyed, there's like, maybe a hundred people living in a house that would have housed maybe 10 people. And when that house gets bombed, 100 people are underneath the rubble. The paramedics will only bring in, like, 15 bodies. Yeah, 30 bodies. There's still 70 underneath the rubble, and they don't get counted. And, you know, when a week, two weeks go past, you know, everybody underneath that rubble is dead. There's no one surviving after that. So, you know, when we talk about 90 of the homes in Gaza are destroyed, how many tens of thousands are underneath the rubble? How many were killed when they were besieged by the military? And families just buried their loved ones in the garden, buried their loved ones on the streets, you know, how many mass graves have we seen and found and been discovered? You know, there's a lot of red zones in Gaza. 80 of Gaza is red zones. How many mass graves are there in those red zones? I think what you'll find is when. When, hopefully, and I'm hoping, you know, Gaza isn't ethnically cleansed. And I'M hoping when they rebuild Gaza and if it's, you know, the Palestinians or whoever rebuilds Gaza, the uncovering of the mass graves, there will be so many mass graves that will be uncovered. And I think that's going to be one of the big things that's going to hit people, is when these, when they are rebuilding and they're putting in the groundwork and the cement and they find all of these mass graves, there'll be a lot of them in Gaza. And you know, look, there's a lot of people also missing that have been taken by the idf.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

And we don't know where they are. We don't know how many of them have been killed inside these torture dungeons that they're taken into. I don't want to sound like a pessimist, but it's, you know, oh, oh my gosh.

[Emma Viglin]

I mean, come out the, the, the, the, we have to speak exactly about what's happening there. And you had this firsthand look to this horror that I see through my phone and it is immensely distressing, of course, and heartbreaking. And the images and videos that get me the most. You can see what you're describing. Shredded children, headless children. But it's the wailing of the parents that is the hardest, I guess, for me to watch. And then I just can't even imagine seeing that in person. So from your perspective, like, what is it like to even, it must be so disorienting to even be in the west, like seeing people just going about their daily lives after what you've just experienced.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

You know, for me, I think what's difficult for someone like me is, you know, my father was born in Gaza. I'm Palestinian originally. My background and you know, I'm Gazan. When you get those children that come in and you see this child and it looks like you when you were a kid. You know, when I was there, if I wasn't wearing my, my NGO jacket, everyone thought I was just a Palestinian, a well fed Palestinian. But you know, everyone just thought I was from Gaza because I've got family in Gaza. I've got aunties, uncles, cousins and stuff like that in Gaza. And you know, you see these people that look exactly like you, you see these children that have the same nose as you, the same ears, the same eyes. And that's the thing that really hits you. And there were some times when we had these like mass casualty events and I would go be seeing children on the ward. Some of these kids had my last name were related to me and that was, I think, what gave me like kind of a unique experience to this is like when you'd hear the wailing, it would be the wailing of a family member, you know, to this. That is the bit that hits me. And then when you go back and you know, you've seen now in the UK and in Australia these massive anti immigration marches and you know, especially in the uk, it's always weird to me because they're always about or we need to send them home. And I'm sat there, I'm going, but you gave my home away. Yeah, you were the ones that gave my home. Or you want me to go home, you don't want me to be here, but at the same time you're supplying the weapons that destroys my home so I can't go back home. You are supporting the ethnic cleansing of my people and my home. Where, where are we going to go as 2 million Gazans, where are they going to go? And then when they do come to Europe after you've supported their ethnic cleansing, you're going to complain about them coming over there after you've supported their displacement. To me, like, you know, like the hypocrisy and the levels of the, the hypocrisy of the west and the levels in which the trauma has been inflicted in the Middle east where they have redrawn the maps in North Africa, where they were the ones that put in these families in charge of these monarchs in charge of these countries, where, you know, they did the Balfour Declaration, where they've supplied the weapons to, you know, whether it was the French that supplied, you know, Bashar's family, the Assad family, you know, in Syria and that caused what, the civil war that only just ended and not even ended, but only just ended, you know, a few months ago or when they, you know, armed the Zionist militias in the 1940s in Palestine that ended up doing the Necba and ethnically cleansing 750, 000 Palestinians. And then you have the audacity for these people to march and talk about how we're the ones that are changing, you know, Muslims or Arabs or these people from third world countries. We're the ones that are changing the demographic and where the ones that are, you know, you know, we're the ones that are causing this dispurity in the culture and changing the culture within these countries. And you know, most of us were like, look, if we could go home, we would. But, you know, you steal our land, you take away all the resources, you make it an unlivable place for us.

[Emma Viglin]

Us.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

And then when we come over here, you tell us to go back home or you tell us that we're not welcome. It's hard.

[Emma Viglin]

Anti Semites.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Yeah, right. And we're Semitic. We're Semitic.

[Emma Viglin]

Exactly.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

I'm, you know, we're Semitic. And it's, you know, look, from all of those angles, it is tough. But I think one thing that I have to try and be is, you know, I have to try and look into the humanity of people that say this. And I have to understand that it's coming from a place of ignorance first and foremost, rather than it being something where they are bad or evil people. It comes from not understanding who we are. It comes from not understanding your own history. You know, the reason why there's so many Pakistanis and Indians in the UK is because you bought them over after the Second World War to fill up the factories, to work to rebuild your economy after hundreds of thousands of them died defending the British and fighting off the Nazis. You know, they don't understand that level of history. So they look at them and they think that they're invade that, you know, these Southeast Asians are invaders. They look at these Muslims and they talk about how, you know, these people are coming over here and bringing their, their, their religion and this, that and the other after you impose, you know, monarchs that, that restrict them from practicing their religion in their own countries while you supply weapons and you go on illegal wars and kill a million of them in Iraq while supplying the weapons and political cover for a genocide in, in, in, in Gaza. When you bomb Yemen, you know, when you impose sanctions on Syria and destroy how many hundreds of thousands of people's lives when you back the Al Qaeda in Syria and then bomb them in.

[Emma Viglin]

Let alone. We didn't even touch what we've done to Latin America, which is, I mean.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

That'S the other one, you know, and, and, and, you know, and we sit here and it's just like, you know, it's got to a stage where, especially now with social media and information being very present, people now are beginning to actually realize and learn the history of what's going on. And they're watching Gaza and they're saying that like, you know, you have politicians coming on TV and saying there is no genocide going on here. And people are watching the same images coming out on screen and going, how are you saying that kids aren't being killed, that kids aren't being targeted when we're seeing it with our own eyes? And that's made people really Take a step back and actually question everything that they've learned of our democratic liberal values, like, are we Democratic even here in the United States? When. When was the last time we got to pick a Democratic nominee? When was the last time we picked a Democratic nominee here?

[Emma Viglin]

I mean, the party apparatus tries to. It treats democracy as a nuisance to having Democratic input. We saw this in the 2024 race, given the fact that a majority of the base of the Democratic Party wants to block weapons to Israel, and it's not particularly close. And then independents also have very strong numbers in this. I mean, I guess, you know, to kind of. Of zoom out slightly just on. You're talking about the west and our relationship with the Middle East. I mean, Islamophobia is the defining bigotry of the 21st century for Western governments because it crosses nations. In the west, it has had probably the greatest impact on everybody's civil liberties. It has resulted in millions of deaths, and it will be hundreds of thousands, if not over a million. And depending on how long this goes with Israel's attempt at the final solution in Gaza, like, as you see though, some public opinion begin to change. Are there any glimmers of hope? Because there's no way we can escape that. The Western, Western imperialism, it has to cease for this to end, the Western governments have to act. When we're talking about public opinion in these Western countries, is there anything that has shown you that, okay, maybe there's this awakening happening even though it's too slow?

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

You know, I think, look, I think I can speak, you know, within the Muslim community. I think the Muslim community also need to understand that our freedoms and our liberty is going to be interconnected with many that are marginalized within the communities. And that things is things like the LGBT community, that's things like women's rights as well. These are all things as well as, like, I feel like as a Muslim community, we're going to have to have a real conversation about how we go around and support everybody. Because the attack, you know, now you're seeing attacks with, you know, Trump on. On neurodivergent people and autism. You know, the attacks on Muslims is all too common. I think what we have to understand is, is that as times move on, there is more and more of a nationalistic approach in all these different countries. And it's. Christian nationalism is a big part of it. And the big boogeyman for Christian nationalism is Islam. You know, there's the historical links of the Crusades, but also as well, it's because Islam as a religion is a very disciplined religion. Right. So you can come to a country and you can be a well adjusted Muslim and live and work as a doctor, as a lawyer, but you still pray your five prayers a day, you still fast and that puts a spotlight on you. When people say that's different and unfortunately that's like, that's not going to change. Muslims are not going to change. And I think it's the fact that people don't understand, they think that Islam is attacking Christianity when it's not. It what's attacking Christianity and what's destroying, you know, things like families is the fact that it's so expensive now to have a family.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

You know, the capitalism has destroyed our society, you know, here, especially in the US like how many people get maternity leave? How many women can just stay off work to build a family? They can't. So the attack on the family is a financial attack on family. It's not because of Islam. You know, it's also the cultural difference as well. You know, Muslims, they'll tend to live with their, with their parents, in their parents homes. Right. They don't go out and buy separate cars for each other and have different mortgages. So therefore they're able to save, therefore they're able to have families, therefore they're able to have more kids.

[Emma Viglin]

Kids.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

And what happens is the narrative shifts around that they're trying to outbreed us and this, that and the other. But actually the differences is, is between like Islam and these things. It's like there's this cultural paradigm shift where Islam is resilient to the effects of, you know, capitalism and the Western egocentric, you know, it's about me and what I want. Whereas their culture and their way is more about the community and family orientation. And people see, see the, you know, the attacks on the family unit in the west and they see the declining birth rates. And because of the declining birth rate we need to get immigrants to come in. And the places where there's a lot of immigrants is in the third world and a lot of them are Muslim countries. So these Muslims are coming in on, you know, in these mass migrations to these countries not because of, you know, the governments want to bring them in, but the governments need to bring them in to keep this capitalistic system alive. Which is, you know, we've got an aging population, you've got a lot of women and people choosing not to have kids. And if they do have kids, they have them later in life, so they have less kids. Therefore we're not replacing and we're not improving the population rates. And because of that we are having to bring in immigrants. And that's what people are then associating with or the billionaires or the, the elite are going, that's the problem. These immigrants coming over here and they're replacing you and this, that and the other one. Actually the thing that's replacing us is the fact that you can't afford to live, you can't afford to have a family. You know, you wouldn't be bringing in all of these migrants and all of these people to come if you actually had a decent standard set of living. And it's not Islam that is the problem to this. The problem is, is the environment that you're in is not allowing you to have a family. It's not allowing you to live a comfortable life. And Islam is the scapegoat, unfortunately.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah. Lastly, can, can you speak about this effort to build the children's hospital and what our audience can do to help in that effort?

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Yeah, I mean look, I'll leave you the, the donation page. We've started a donation page.

[Emma Viglin]

We'll put a link down below wherever people are listening, watching.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Yeah. So you know, look, we are, we're partnering up with things like World Central Kitchen. They're going to help us. We've already got a maternity and neonatal hospital built these, this hospital which will be similar to what the pediatric hospital is. It is a solar panel powered mobile units that get put on the back of trucks and bought into Gaza and then assembled like a jigsaw puzzle. They're built in Jordan. They have state of the art medical equipment. They have operating theaters, intensive care units, pathology labs, pharmacies, doctors quarters. They have kitchens, These are, they have its own, it has its own capacity to refill oxygen cylinders as well. And all of this like I say, is self sufficient, solar panel powered. So this is bringing infrastructure that's built outside of Gaza and bringing it into Gaza. And you know, we already have a maternity and neonatal hospital at the border in Jordan ready to go in. I've been trying to lobby the British government and the Australian government to work with the Jordanians to get this hospital in. And if we can get this hospital in, that'll be the first one in. And then after that we're going to start building the pediatric hospital and that's what we're fundraising for. And if we do this, we want to build a 100 bed pediatric hospital that will one act as a standalone hospital but also it will work alongside with the pediatric hospitals in Gaza to help support them. Because, you know, the other issue has been is the lack of evacuations. We can't even evacuate kids out of Gaza, so they're dying, waiting to leave for treatment. Whereas if we can bring this state of the art hospital in with, you know, doctors and nurses from the west with all their medical equipment and all their medical expertise, hopefully we can treat these kids in Gaza while the blockade is on so we can save their lives.

[Emma Viglin]

Well, Dr. Mohammed Mustafa, thank you so much for your time today. We will put a link to that donation where we can give it to us right when we go to break and we'll put it down below. Thanks so much for coming on.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

No, thank you so much for having me.

[Emma Viglin]

Of course. A quick break and when we come back, we'll be joined by Jennifer Welch. It's Sam it. And back we are back. And we are joined now by Jennifer Welch, interior designer, co host of the I've had it podcast and co author of Life is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches. Jennifer, we've been meaning to have you on for a while. So thrilled we were able to make this happen.

[Jennifer Welch]

Thank you so much for having me on. You know, I am doing a midlife gap year soon and I'm moving to New York out of the Bible belt and, and I've raised my kids. The youngest one is at usc. And you and I were texting about my coming on and I was like, this is perfect because I need friends in New York. So this is our first time meeting and I'm going to be your new best friend.

[Emma Viglin]

I know. Well, I mean, I'm all for it and we have to have you on in studio once you officially move in. But I couldn't wait till you got here in October to have you on, especially because I knew Sam would be out today and I wanted a little bit of girl time. I hope that's all right with you.

[Jennifer Welch]

Love it.

[Emma Viglin]

But we can bring you on with him as well because he seemed a little jealous, honestly, when I told him you would be on today.

[Jennifer Welch]

I love that it's always when you're 50 and somebody's jealous they don't get to be with you. You just absorb that energy.

[Emma Viglin]

Can you honestly just tell us a little bit about your background? I had meant to ask you about this because I've been seeing people will say you've got the liberal wine mom thing locked down. And I'm 31. I love wine. I hope to be a mom at one day so I mom one day I don't wouldn't take that as something that's, like, offensive. I think it's actually pretty awesome. So I hope to be a future wine mom. Or do you. Do you find that to be a funny way to describe your demographic?

[Jennifer Welch]

There's two takes on that. The first one is sometimes people refer to us as mom podcasters in a reductive way. And you would never hear anybody refer to Joe Rogan as a dad podcaster.

[Emma Viglin]

Right, right.

[Jennifer Welch]

And so in that regard, them, in the regard that members of the LGBTQ + or of the black and brown community are refreshed to see a woman like me who meets the optics that you might think, oh, where was she on January 6th? And then you hear me advocating for you, and then it it this. My kids told me the phrase mother. Like, you're so mother. So in that regard, being like a maternal supporter or ally or an aunt or a big sister, I embrace that entirely.

[Emma Viglin]

And what do you think about, I guess, some of the reaction in the Democratic base to the way that leadership has responded here? I know you've been really vocally critical of, of Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer as we have been on this show, but it's almost like they were surprised that your show would have this take, but it's actually reflective of what we're seeing in the base. Like, a majority of Democrats do not want this leadership anymore. And I don't understand why either of our opinions on this would be controversial.

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, you know, I think that Democratic establishment has a brand of pick me politics. They want everybody to like them. And when you aspire for everybody to like you, nobody likes you because you're inauthentic and you don't stand for anything. And so right now, what everybody wants to see is people that stand up and fight, that fight against this fascist regime. And when you see the word salad and the moral duplicity coming out of Jeffries, Cory Booker, Chuck Schumer, it's heartbreaking. It's really heartbreaking because this is a moment where you have to set all of your PAC money aside and you have to get on your big boy pants and stand up and not be a pussy. And when I see these Democratic establishment candidates puss out, it is. It angers me. But more than anything, it's heartbreaking because their positions as a woman who lives deeply in a red state, we have had to rely on Democratic leaders from other states to protect us from MAGA and Republicans worst impulses, which are putting the Ten Commandments in schools no exceptions to abortions, you know, very horrible education systems, Trump Bibles in schools, et cetera. I could go on and on. And so you rely on these certain politicians to be uncompromising when it comes to human rights. So when you see them compromise, I mean, it just. It really enrages me. Slash makes me sad at the same time.

[Emma Viglin]

What do you think of the you get what you voted for thing? Because when I think about red states, I think about some of the poorest states in the South. I mean, you're from Mississippi, right?

[Jennifer Welch]

Oklahoma.

[Emma Viglin]

Oklahoma. I'm so sorry, but I think about other.

[Jennifer Welch]

That redneck.

[Emma Viglin]

Not that I apologize, I don't know where I got that from, but, I mean, maybe I'm just thinking of Mississippi.

[Jennifer Welch]

My husband's my third cousin, not my first cousin.

[Emma Viglin]

Okay, I got it. I'm sorry to let my coastal elitism slip out and blend all these states together, but it is like there are vulnerable communities in those states. They just are gerrymandered out of politics or they are in areas that are kind of so left behind that they're not considered as a part of kind of our active voting political community. And I don't want to leave those folks behind just because a bunch of Christian white people in those states decide to vote for Trump.

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, my response to this is twofold. On the surface, I totally get the you get what you voted for. Fuck around and find out as an impulsive reaction when you see what this regime is doing. As a progressive person, once I get past that impulse of being catty and petty, which is fun to be for a few seconds, cooler heads prevail. And then I realize, like, let's take, for example, first and foremost, most of the Latinos for Trump. That girl had that big salsa rally. I will vote for Donald Trump. And they're woohoo, you know? And then her husband and her nephew ice scrape him out the door. She's bawling, crying. She feels Trump betrayed by Donald Trump. And because I'm progressive, I have empathy for her, even though she was a dipshit, even though she didn't watch the signs at the Republican National Convention that said mass deportations. Now, even though it enrages me that they were so stupid to think that they could align with people that were going to oppress your people, and at some point those knives wouldn't be turned on you, as a progressive person, I still have empathy for them as it pertains to people in rural America. I have empathy for them because, like, people in Oklahoma, the only thing they have in their rural communities is church. And these MAGA politicians. Let's just take our governor, Governor Kevin Stitt, who I refer to as Governor Dipshit, Governor Dipshit weaponizes Christianity out in rural Oklahoma and he Christian signals and he Jesus signals and he just throws out a few things to say, hey, I'm one of yours. And then he completely rapes and pillages every sense of autonomy or any sort of social safety net that could possibly have. We've gone from 16 years ago. We had a Democratic governor, we were 14th in education, MAGA super majority policies. We are dead last in education. So I have empathy for those people because they've been lied to and manipulated. The people I have no fucking empathy for are country club white Republicans that played a short term game. They know Trump's a nut. They know that he's surrounded by a bunch of nuts and they played the short term. I want my 401k to be great. And I know he's a racist, I know he's a sexist. I know that, you know, these women that are getting raped in certain states can't have access to health care, but I don't give a shit because I'm just a capitalist. When they lose all of their money, I'm not going to feel empathy for them. But the other two I do feel empathy for.

[Emma Viglin]

I totally agree with you and you mentioned some of the Christian, the Christo fascism of this administration. I want to play this clip from Charlie Kirk Kirk's memorial, which it was filled with pyrotechnics and speeches by Donald Trump and other political figures where it seems like everybody's last conversation with Charlie Kirk validated all of their politics prior to this. But Benny Johnson, MAGA influencer, who I don't know if he was responsible for the Grindr outage at the event. I mean, it could have been him. It could have been anybody. Honestly, just do the overuse. Here he is speaking and you can pick up a lot of what Jennifer is saying here about, like, the Christo, Christo fascist elements of this movement.

[Brian]

The Apostle Paul describes how God establishes the rulers of the nations. In the audience right now, there are rulers of our land represented. Right here is the State Department, the Department of War, the Department of justice, the Chief Executive. God has instituted them. God has given them power over our nation and our land. God saved our president, President Trump, from an assassin's bullet for this moment. And what does the Apostle Paul in Romans say about a godly leadership? He says that rulers wield the sword for the protection of God, good men and for the terror of evil men. May we pray that our rulers here.

[Emma Viglin]

Okay, I think we get the gist. I like how men are both the protagonists and antagonists. Women are just along for the ride. God saved the President, but didn't. But wanted to men on men actually.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Emma Viglin]

Wanted the firefighter to die at the rally and then I guess also had to sacrifice Charlie Kirk for this moment. Is the implication from Benny Johnson.

[Brian]

He works in mysterious way.

[Jennifer Welch]

I mean, so this is what they do. This is, this is what is Christian signaling, Jesus signaling. And this is what as being an atheist Democrat in a red state my whole life, I see that these politicians do. And when you think about people in rural America, they don't fucking know what's going on in Gaza. And I don't want to hurt step on anybody's toes. They don't care. That is the part of rural America is simply, you know, you get up. My husband's from rural Oklahoma. He's a criminal defense attorney. And he said you get up, you try to, you know, grind your way through your day. Nobody's making any money, everybody's broke, half the people are on meth. And then you watch Wheel of Fortune and then you say, who can I blame for my shitty life? Fox News serves up who you can blame, who you're going to scapegoat, those immigrants, those trans people, those drag queens, those lesbians. We had a guy who ran for Senate in Oklahoma and he called, he campaigned in rural Oklahoma, that lesbians were a huge problem in eastern Oklahoma, which I would say there is kind of a fine line between cowgirls and lesbians. Sometimes you're kind of like could go either way. But they Christian signal and it works with them because their only form of culture or home or social life is in these churches. And the churches are hell fire, damnation, you're no good, you need to be saved. And so the two for me, I was not surprised that Christians clung on to Trump because I've always been at the top of prayer list. Everybody's always been trying to save me my whole life. And they are very primed for this type of cruelty talk. When friends would take me to go get me saved. The preacher sound exactly like Donald Trump. They sound exactly like Benny John. And so it's familiar.

[Emma Viglin]

I know you've spoken about this a bit with your co host Pomps about her upbringing versus yours, her growing up in a more traditional Christian household in the United States. How has your friendship kind of informed that 1 and 2, if you could expand on the element about churches only being the only form of community, because I think that's really important. It's why cities are so scary to, I think, conservatives is because you interact with all different kinds of people and you're such, in such close proximity that you have more options to form community. Although I think capitalism largely limits it because we're so on a razor's edge about our next paycheck or whatever. But like, that element I think is really important. And this is a very drawn out question, but when I used to go cover Trump rallies, I was going to one Trump rally a week in the lead up to 2020. And it almost, it felt like when I went to megachurch with my aunt, like, like there was, it was the same vibe. And it is a form of community, a perverse one, but it's because there are no other ones.

[Jennifer Welch]

Totally. So, you know, I had a really unique upbringing. My parents, atheists, I don't know why we were in the buckle of the Bible Belt, but we were. I was born in Dallas and moved to Oklahoma City when I was in grade school and my parents traveled all the time. But I was, I grew up around all of these really religious people. And so when I. And I never fit in with them because I was never indoctrinated. You know how today the Rapture's supposed to come on Christian Talk? They're talking about it.

[Emma Viglin]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if we got raptured just right here on air?

[Jennifer Welch]

I mean, two amnesty would be so tolerable. I want it to happen. But, but I remember when I was in eighth grade, I was a Brink Bobcat cheerleader. Go Bobcats. And everybody that I went to middle school with was like, the rapture's coming. The rapture's coming. The rapture's coming. I tell my mom, she go, oh, for God's sakes, Jennifer, that's ridiculous. These Christian Christians are so intellectually stupid. And you know, the football game came and went, the Rapture never came. And, but there's this, it's this cult like thing and there's all this pressure to be involved in it. I'm so grateful that I was never indoctrinated in it because what we have right now is a bunch of people that are suffering the consequences of religious abuse. And my co host pumps, she suffered the consequences of religious abuse. Now her parents didn't set out to do this. The structures that they were raised in earnestly set her to be raised in the same structures. But if you're told when you're born that you're inherently bad. And I had a boyfriend in high school, Emma, who, whose dad was a Baptist preacher and he got grounded for three months for beating off when he was 16 years old. Like, the shame of that.

[Emma Viglin]

That is what that does to you.

[Jennifer Welch]

Abusive. And so then you see Grindr crashing and you see all of these MAGA people that have all of this child essay stuff on their phones. And I think you have like a mass psychosis of people that are suffering from religious abuse. So when they have things like this where they can all get together to feel normal, and then the propaganda administration knows, they know exactly what they're doing by using religion in this way. And there's so many people, this is all they know. And I think this is what's so insidious about what Charlie Kirk did. He knew. And the people that funded him knew, knew that for all of these mega church people in suburban rural America, they did exactly what their parents told them to do. They prayed at the flagpole, they did Bible study. Circle jerks, etc. Circle jerk.

[Emma Viglin]

Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

And so then they. They go to college and that's the first time they free, they're liberated. They can maybe make their own script. And that's what's so dangerous and insidious about what Charlie Kirk did. They intentionally wanted him placed at a time where free thought could be uninterrupted, and he went there to interrupt it in Christian Signal. And so, you know, the right always accuses us of virtue signaling, and probably we're guilty of that. And I don't think that's something we should necessarily apologize for. But weaponizing your faith, faith against people who inherently have some questions like, did Noah really load up all those animals and get on the boat? Like, I had friends that literally believe that pumps. My co host, she told me one time she thought people lived to be 950 years old. They and she had been to law school. Imagine that, been to law school, but was indoctrinated not to critically think, not to ask questions. And that's what's so egregious and horrible about Turning points activities, is they're stunting the growth and then you're going to have more broken, damaged people, because that's the perfect petri dish for MAGA to get all of their supporters.

[Emma Viglin]

It is interesting to me too, how the relationship with Trump also almost mirrors. Not to psychoanalyze them too much, but it's kind of fun. Mirrors a relationship with almost like an abusive father, where it Feels like love where he's abusing them. And you just take it because there's no. I feel. It seems like healthy emotional reaction or critical thought that could allow you.

[Jennifer Welch]

It's bigger than that. I think it mirrors the relationship with the Old Testament God.

[Emma Viglin]

There you go. There you go. Well, I mean, he stands in like, he stands in as Jesus. And you heard Mike Pence. I don't know if you read that interview with him. Him a few years ago, back when he was still vice president. He described how Trump is this imperfect vessel, but he feels like God is speaking through him, and serving him is like serving God. And I don't know how you get from point A to point B, except for the fact that Trump is charismatic and omnipresent, charismatic in his own perverse way, and leading a coalition of religious fundamentalists.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, I mean, I. I was not surprised because when all of my friends were trying to save me when I was in junior high and high school and I would lie to my mother and say, I'm gonna go spend the night with this person, she'd be like, don't go to that church. Of course, I immediately went to the church because I wanted to fit in with my friends. Right? And so the. I remember this one church I went to in particular. It was called Crossroads Cathedral. And my friend Shonda and her mother drove me there. And they were working class people. My family was more upper class, upper middle class. And Shonda's mom worked at ups. Really sweet lady named Debbie. And we pull up to 7 11, and she has a cup in her car full of coins with a 20 bill at the top. And she said, you girls pump the gas and one of you go pay. So I'm like, okay, I'll go pay. Shonda, you pump the gas. So I grabbed the 20 bill, and I'm going to take it into 7 11. She wanted to us put $5 in. She goes, no, no, no, Jennifer, that 20 is for the pastor. It's for the church. Count out the coins. And so I was like, well, that's fucked up. But I did as I was told. I counted out the coins. We pull up to Crossroads Cathedral in South Oklahoma City, and right at the same time, this white Rolls Royce pulls up and this guy gets out. Pastor Schaefer's his name. And he has on a white suit and a white mink coat. His wife gets out, and she has total Tammy Faye vibes. Righteous gemstone, the big eyelashes, a white mink coat. We go inside and they start doing all this Bible Thumping and talking in tongues and talking about demons and all this fucking crazy shit was the most terrifying thing I've ever been around. And here's Debbie, who had a black eye because her husband had roughed her up a few nights before giving $20 to this grifter, this total lying sack of shit, Pastor Schaefer. And so when Trump started doing that, I thought, this is familiar to them. This type of abusive, lying, grifting relationship is familiar. And the cognitive dissonance that it takes to both love your pastor and overlook all of his moral obvious shortcomings is very familiar to this base. So I think that my perspective, having been raised in the Death Star are. I'm not shocked that Christians like him. I know people on the coast were shocked. I was not shocked one bit. He's mean. He traffics in cruelty. Every single church that I went to, where my friends tried to get me saved, the same thing. It was the same kind of, same kind of talking, rambling, whacked out shit that Trump does.

[Emma Viglin]

He is a glorified mega church pastor, basically. I mean, that kind of, of that is fascinating. That really solves a lot of, I think, questions, you know, that maybe people have about that relationship because of, you know, all of the things that should be antithetical because of his complete, you know, depravity individually, that all got washed away for that reason. Can we talk a little bit more about Kirk as well? Because was. I had forgotten, I guess, and this is my privilege too, but I remembered all of his bigoted statements towards black people, towards Palestinians, towards basically anybody, trans people, gay people, what have you. But his anti blackness was so acute. And I think back to what you were talking about earlier, about people being surprised that someone looks like you or even someone that looks like me, is speaking honestly about what Kirk's legacy is and what the impact is of the right right now. Like, where do you view your responsibility in that? Because our leadership isn't doing it. And the idea that we should just throw more marginalized groups under the bus to appease this fascist churn, it is going to gobble us all up. There is. There has to be a firm line here. And I think that there were a lot of people that were genuinely hurt to see the whitewashing of the things that he said. I mean, black Americans in this country in particular, I think, because it was so horrific. And then you have the Senate unanimously voting to make a Remembrance Day for him and just a few dozen Democrats in the House standing up here. But among the base, this is a consensus opinion, basically, yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

So as a white American, I think all of us should aspire to be cookout approved whites. And I think we need to align ourselves with the black community the way you will your own. And until we have that type of rock solid allyship, you see people make excuses for the racism and that exists all the time. And as a white person who grew up in a white suburban world, I hear racism all the time. And you have to stand up and you have to defend your black and brown brothers and sisters. The whitewashing of his legacy is so abhorrent and hurtful. It hurts me to see it, but it's also a reminder of all of the white racists that I've been around in my life, life. And I think that what the Democrats have done by voting to honor is just an absolute, total disgrace. I think they should be ashamed of themselves. I think that I do not understand how somebody like Hakeem Jeffries, that is a black man, can vote to honor a man who trafficked in racist cruelty and made black people less safe. And who is this winning over?

[Emma Viglin]

And who is this winning over? I mean, that's the only. Weird.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, so it's so weird. I just, I just think that our responsibility is to call out what everybody sees with their own eyes and hears with their own ears, saying, you saw and you heard Charlie Kirk be a racist and you were correct. That's it.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

You know, you don't have to spin it, you don't have to revisionist history. It let people know what you saw is correct. He was a man that profited off of racist. And then what you also saw is correct. Bizarrely, a black man just voted to honor him. It's fucking crazy.

[Emma Viglin]

It's crazy, but it shows, I think, the rot right now at the core of the Democratic Party, unfortunately. I mean, the reality is, is that voters, they're there, there. The voters are ready. The voters are ready for a transformational candidate. They're ready for a change in leadership. And yet the party's responsiveness has been non existent. It feels like, especially at the very top, you have a select few. You have aoc, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Zoramdani, who you had on your show, which I'd love for you to give your thoughts on too. And you have governors like, I think Pritzker's done a good job and Van Hollen in the Senate, and of course, Bernie Sanders. But part of what is happening here is that Trump is able to fill vacuums because vacuums are being left purposefully, and all they're trying to do is hang on by their fingernails until the midterms, but the impacts are still going to happen. I mean, Chuck Schumer is just waiting for an excuse to cave on the government shutdown right now. And I. I don't understand how you can demonstrate, like, the party is so unpopular, and part of the problem is that people don't think they stand for anything. And so their answer is, let's not stand for anything harder.

[Jennifer Welch]

I cannot understand it. I have been sitting here trying to understand it, and I think that they're basically beholden to the same corporations that got MAGA elected. And so you have a opposition party that is MAGA like. And I think obviously the APAC money plays a huge, huge role in this. And I can always use Cory Booker as a prime example for this. You know, we've had him on our podcast. I liked him. He was feisty. He spoke about, you know, quality, and he spoke up for democracy, blah, blah, blah. Then he did the 25 hour barn burner. I'm not gonna sleep, I'm not gonna pee. I'm fighting for democracy.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

I'm like, fuck, yeah. Let's go, Cory. And then he's playing peekaboo photograph with Benjamin Netanyahu, and I'm like, say, what? Are you kidding me? So now everything that Corey says, he's not a credible messenger to me, and people say that, oh, the left. You want everybody. You know, you have this purity issue. That's not it. We have a credibility issue. We want you to be a credible messenger. You don't have to be pure. If Cory Booker or Hakeem Jeffries right now because we're so desperate and beggars can't be choosers. If they said we're fucked up about the AIPAC mandate, I was wrong. I was wrong. We're in the fight of our lives. Please get behind me. We can duke it out later. I would be first in line because MAGA moved Trump far to the right. We can move our leaders further to the left, and we can't just be dismissive of them. But if they continue to dismiss us, then I'm going to go after them. I'm going to walk and chew gum. I'm going to go after Trump, who I call Kanks. I'm going to go after a little Smokey, who of course has failed Drag Queen Vice President J.D. vance, Smokey Eye sociopath, which we refer to as Little Smokey. And you can imagine what I mean by that. But the smokey eye and a small.

[Emma Viglin]

I like the visual you're giving right now.

[Jennifer Welch]

And a small penis.

[Emma Viglin]

And thanks for the podcast audience.

[Jennifer Welch]

So they know we can go after all of these things, but we cannot give these complicit Democrats a pass. We have to go after them as well.

[Emma Viglin]

Right. And it's about making the opposition party stronger. That's what it's about. And I think most people are kind of on board with that. It's just that the party apparatus is completely sclerotic right now. Lastly, you mentioned some of your favorite nicknames. I've been using Kanks and in conversations. I've gotten my mom to listen to your show, too. So we'll call them Kanks on the phone with each other. So thanks for giving us something to laugh about. Kanks. You got a little smokey. Who are your other favorite? Some of your other favorite.

[Jennifer Welch]

Eric and Don are dumb and dumber. Eric and Don Jr. Of course. Eric being dumber and Don Jr. Being dumb. So dumb and dumber.

[Emma Viglin]

Really? I would go the other way.

[Jennifer Welch]

You really would? You think Eric's dumb and Don Junior's dumber?

[Emma Viglin]

I, I, that's, But I don't know. That's really tough. Matt's thinking really hard over there.

[Matt]

Usually you would say the blonde is dumber, but I think Eric is smarter than Don Jr.

[Emma Viglin]

I think Eric might be. But I mean, here's the thing about Eric. Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

You know that, that Lara Trump, you know that when she's sitting there at Fox News News, Eric's balls are just right in her cleavage. Feel it. You know that she's just got them all twisted up.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah. I mean, how else would they let a woman in with the Trump last name run for higher office? She must just have to, like, be that kind of woman.

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, it's just amazing to me how easy these MAGA men either emasculate themselves or how easy they are to emasculate. Like, I just don't think we talk enough about, you know, J.D. vance is a failed drag queen that changed his name three times as an adult. And in a, in a normal world, that wouldn't, you know, whatever. But this is a. He is the failed drag queen leader of a party that's anti drag, banning books.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

I just think, I mean, from time to time, I always just remind our audience we need to remember that he tried to be a drag queen and he failed. Then we show the photograph of how terrible he was at doing drag.

[Emma Viglin]

Right. Yeah. The matches set off camera Hitler trying to be an Artist.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, Mike Johnson. I call him Moses Mike because he said on camera that, you know, when he. When he was becoming speaker of the House, that God, he says that he goes, you know, God woke me up in the middle of the night. And he's like, hey, buddy, I think you're going to be Moses. And I'm just like. The fact that we have the speaker of the House who claims that God woke him up in the middle of the night, tapped him on the shoulder and told him he was going to be Moses and part the sea and be the speaker of the House is crazy. And we also have to talk about the fact that Mike Johnson lives with this evangelical preacher. Their roommates. Evangelical preacher was spotted by neighbors answering the door in his panties one time as Mike got home from work. All right, this evangelical preacher is connected to this guy in Nashville who is a multimillionaire car guy, big Christian guy, who. Who's, when his wife divorced him, accused him in the divorce filings of forcing her to watch gay porn. Mike Johnson also had. Has all these pray the gay away conversion camps.

[Emma Viglin]

He has an app on his phone where he monitors. Him and his son monitor each other, hold them accountable so they're not. Not jacking off, which is normal.

[Jennifer Welch]

So they're not watching gay porn.

[Emma Viglin]

Right, Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

So I. That Moses Mike is a good one. We call Ron DeSantis Kitten Hills Governor Kitten Hills because he always wears a little booster because he's so does.

[Emma Viglin]

I forgot about that.

[Jennifer Welch]

We call Mark Wayne Mullins, the senator from our state, when he questions, people were ranked 50th in education. And he says, when was you fired? We call him Booster Box Mullins because he also stands on a booster box when he's at the podium. And they just kind of. The nickname just kind of come to.

[Emma Viglin]

Well, it's great because. Go ahead, Matt.

[Matt]

Is there one for Ryan Walters, the superintendent that you guys got over there in Oklahoma? Because I really don't like that guy.

[Jennifer Welch]

No, we hate him. You know, here's the thing, Matt. It's so awful to cover local politics. I don't watch it at all. So I only see Ryan Walters and he's on the local news all the time. When he comes on the national news, and I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, my God, I can't believe it. But here's the thing about Ryan Walters. There is a local blogger, the Lost Ogle and somebody. And he has these people that are called the Ogle moles somebody sent him. And you can Google it and find the picture Ryan Walters is sitting on a bench with this guy and they're touching each other's inner thighs. It's totally gay. I mean it's just as gay as it gets. Right. Which comes as a surprise to no one that he's slapping tickling when he's not buying Trump bibles. Right. And so.

[Matt]

Or accidentally screening porn for the people that he works with. Which is another story that accidentally screens retro nudie flick for school board members.

[Emma Viglin]

Accidentally whoops.

[Matt]

That's just. This was a glitch.

[Emma Viglin]

That's amazing. I mean the fact that you're combating Trump has really fallen off with in the nickname game. So you're filling a vacuum here for righteousness. We'll read some IMs because people want have many thoughts and much more. Love free Jennifer before we let you go by my time says Jennifer is hilarious. Feels like the fun half came early today. A North Dakota llama says we don't catch Eric Trump licking the coke off his teeth on camera like old Donnie Jr. So that's allegedly. Allegedly. It's what it looked like gumming. Not that I would know. Brit. Jennifer's statement on Megatron church familiarity reminds me of Twain's Easier to abuse people than to convince them they've been abused. Paraphrase a little bit there nick09 Kirk was the perfect nice young man for conservative moms to fawn over. I feel like that's true.

[Matt]

Nice young Klansman.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah. Human phone book. If I were religious I'd think Trump may be the Antichrist. But I also think the only people dumb enough to follow the Antichrists are the only people who believe in the concept of the Antichrist.

[Jennifer Welch]

Can we talk about what's his face that's having a conference on the Antichrist? Peter.

[Emma Viglin]

Peter teal. Well that's J.D. vance owes his entire speaking about smokey eye.

[Jennifer Welch]

He'll queer eyed him.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah, we have. Yeah, there you go.

[Jennifer Welch]

And dorky and not attractive. And then he goes off to Peter till day camp and he, he comes back queer eyed, thin yassified eyeliner. Peter Thiel totally queer eyed. Smokey little Smokey.

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah, it's. He's the scariest part of this is the idea that Peter Thiel who brings up the Antichrist all the time and it sounds like he's describing himself that he has if Trump, you know ends up perishing of natural causes given his health situation they have all of the, the the mechanisms in place to have Peter Thiel just like completely seize power through his, you know, little boy smokey.

[Jennifer Welch]

Little smokey yeah, but I mean, I did a whole, I did a whole episode on the progression of J.D. vance because remember, remember when he was in the Hillbilly elegy days, he wasn't that cute and chubby and he didn't dress very well. He goes off to Peter Till's boot camp and he comes back queer eyed and yassified. And we are one new cycle away from a smoky.

[Emma Viglin]

I hear you on that. I mean, people really, really appreciate your appearance here. I'll read some of these, more of these in the fun half, but I gotta let you go. Jennifer Welch, everybody. Check out the I've had it podcast. It's a great show and it's. We try to laugh about the news here too, but sometimes I need a podcast that makes me laugh independently of the show. And I always go to you guys over there, say hi to Pumps for me. And you thank. Thanks so much for coming on, Jennifer.

[Jennifer Welch]

Thanks for having me on, you guys. Bye.

[Emma Viglin]

Of course. Bye. With that, we are going to wrap up the free part of the show. We kind of did a little bit of like a Friday ish vibe here, but I wanted to make sure that we didn't pay wall that interview.

[Matt]

I mean, how could we have gone short with either of our guests?

[Emma Viglin]

I know. Phenomenal, Phenomenal. Really happy about it. Thanks to Jennifer for coming on with that. We're going to wrap up here and head into the fun half map. What's happening on Left Reckoning?

[Matt]

Yeah, Devin o' Shea talking about Vineland, a book that there's a new movie coming out called One Battle After Another that is based on a Thomas Pynchon novel called Vineland. And we go deep in. We use that as an excuse to do basically a literary hangover episode on the book Vineland, which is, which is, it's one of the more accessible Pynchon books to read. It's shorter. It's not like a giant brick that you could use as a doorstop. And it's also, it's written in 1990, about 1984, at sort of the height of Reaganite repression and sort of bureaucratic purging. And it follows a bunch of different informants of people who sort of were turned by the cointel or whatever during the, during the 60s and 70s. So a very interesting novel with a lot of relevant messages for today. So I'm kind of excited. I'm a little bit leery of the movie. I did like Paul Thomas Anderson's Inherent Vice adaptation of Pynchon. This one seems to be a lot Looser. None of the character names are the same or anything like that. It's a lot. There's a lot more action in the movie than there is in the book. But still nonetheless excited to watch it. So that'll be tonight, seven o' clock Eastern Eastern time.

[Emma Viglin]

I am seeing the movie on Saturday. I could not be more excited. I'm a big Thomas Anderson fan and I'm trying to stay away from reviews. But I have heard that the politics of it are very good. Which if it's. If that's the source material of it.

[Matt]

I mean Pynchon has the greatest politics of really any person to ever live as far as I'm concerned. We'll get into that. Why guys like me and Devin like Pinchin and yeah, I'm very excited to see. See it. A little bit upset that. Well, I won't get it too into Johnny Greenwood doing the. Johnny Greenwood doing the soundtrack. Johnny Greenwood and DiCaprio's Israeli Hotels, which he should be asked about in the promo for this.

[Emma Viglin]

He should.

[Matt]

Especially because Israel does play a role in the actual novel of Vineland where it talks about the Uzi a lot and Israeli penchant for it.

[Emma Viglin]

I'm worried that you're spoiling the movie, but I have no idea what the.

[Matt]

Movie'S be to going even like. But I know what the book is like.

[Emma Viglin]

He should be asked about that. Oh, you said something else that I wanted to mention. Oh, shoot, I forget. No, we'll just head into the fun half then I guess we won't take Call of Slay. I'm sorry, it's gonna be a truncated fun half. Oh, what I wanted to say is Quentin Tarantino, you grow out of that phase and then you learn about Paul Thomas Anderson and then you realize like, oh, in terms of like great filmmakers of our time, there's really no comparison.

[Matt]

Look, I liked. I think I. Jane goes up lately.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Disagree. But.

[Emma Viglin]

Oh, really?

[Matt]

Jane goes Tarantino. Right. Like I like that Inglourious Basterds. But I'll say I never. I bought the Kill Bills on DVD back in the day and never really understood what the whole deal was about. Those.

[Emma Viglin]

I just find it fun. They have a friendship and a friendly rivalry and I just. I used to love Tarantino and then I got more into Paul Thomas and I felt like I was much more erudite. But Brian's has a respectful disagree.

[Matt]

Oh, Jackie Brown's great too.

[Brian]

But yeah, they're neck and neck in my opinion.

[Emma Viglin]

All right, well, one happens to live.

[Brian]

In Israel and so it Makes it right.

[Emma Viglin]

I forgot to deal with that. Vindicated. And it's not Paul Thomas Anderson. All right, guys. See you in the photo.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Okay.

[Brian]

Emma, please.

[Emma Viglin]

Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority report.

[Brian]

Wait, look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a vacation at Disney World, so. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show.

[Matt]

I think you need to take over for Sam.

[Emma Viglin]

Yes, please.

[Brian]

No, no, no.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

I'm gonna.

[Jennifer Welch]

I'm gonna.

[Brian]

I'm gonna pause you right there.

[Emma Viglin]

Wait, what?

[Brian]

You can't encourage Emma to live like this, and I'll tell you why. So it was offered a tour. Sushi and poker with the boys. Twerk, sushi and poker with the boys. Who was offered a tour?

[Emma Viglin]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Sushi and poker with the boys. Sushi and poker.

[Emma Viglin]

Tim's upset.

[Brian]

Twerk, sushi and poker with the boys. It was offered with twerk sushi and. That's what we call biz. Twerk, sushi and bulker with tin boys.

[Emma Viglin]

Right.

[Brian]

Twerk sushi and.

[Emma Viglin]

We're gonna get demonetized.

[Brian]

I just think that what you did to T pool was mean.

[Emma Viglin]

Free speech.

[Brian]

That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about him. I think you're responsible.

[Emma Viglin]

I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.

[Brian]

Sushi and poker with the boys. Oh, my God. Wow. Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Offered with twerk, sushi and poker with the boys. Logic. Twerk, sushi and poker with the boy. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a kid. Twerk. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Seven thousand times a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. A little kid. Think I'm like a dick. I'm losing my mind. So I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but, like, I absolutely think the US should be providing me with a wife and kids.

[Emma Viglin]

That's not what we're talking about here.

[Brian]

It's not a fun job. Work. That's a real thing. That's real thing. Real thing. Willy Walker.

[Emma Viglin]

Work.

[Brian]

That's a real thing. That's real thing. That's a real thing. That's real thing. Real thing. That's a real thing. That's real. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. Offered. That's a real thing. I think he might be blowing it out of proportion. Real thing. That's offer. That's a real thing Thing. That's poker. Let's go, Joey.

[Emma Viglin]

Twerk.

[Brian]

Sushi and poker. Take it easy. Sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker with the boys. Sushi. You don't have a clue as to what's going on live. YouTube.

[Emma Viglin]

Sam has like the weight of the world on the shoulders. Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore.

[Brian]

Anymore.

[Emma Viglin]

It was so much easier when the majority to report was just you happy.

[Brian]

Let's change the subject. Rangers and Knicks are doing great now.

[Jennifer Welch]

Shut it up.

[Emma Viglin]

Don't want people saying reckless things on your program.

[Brian]

That's one of the most difficult parts of this show.

[Emma Viglin]

This is the pro killing podcast.

[Brian]

I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury the hatchet.

[Emma Viglin]

Left his best Violet D. Don't be.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Foolish and don't tweet at me.

[Brian]

And don't to the way Emma has.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Cucked all of these people. Love it.

[Emma Viglin]

That's for my heart artist. So I wrote my honors thesis about it.

[Brian]

I guess I should hand the main mic to you now. You are to the right of me on foreign policy.

[Emma Viglin]

We already fund Israel. Dude. Are you against us?

[Brian]

That's a tougher question.

[Emma Viglin]

I have an answer to.

[Brian]

Incredible theme song.

[Emma Viglin]

Hi, bumbler.

[Brian]

Emma Viglin.

[Dr. Mohammed Mustafa]

Absolutely one of my favorite, favorite people, actually.

[Brian]

Not just in the game, like period.