3609 - Netanyahu's War to Remake the Middle East; AI's Data Center Lies w/ Andrew Arsan, Ed Zitron

Summary

---

The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3609: Netanyahu's War to Remake the Middle East; AI's Data Center Lies
Date: March 26, 2026
Host: Emma Vigeland (in for Sam Seder)
Guests: Andrew Arsan (University of Cambridge), Ed Zitron (Tech columnist, "Where's Your Ed At?" newsletter)

Episode Overview

This episode takes an incisive look at two urgent and interconnected issues: the escalation in the Middle East driven by Netanyahu and U.S. policy, and the misleading state of the AI data center boom. Emma Vigeland and guests provide historical context, sharp political critique, and a skeptical reading of both tech industry and American foreign policy narratives. The episode features detailed segments with historian Andrew Arsan on Israel’s war aims and U.S. regional strategy, and tech commentator Ed Zitron on the “mirage” of AI infrastructure and job losses.

---

Key Segments & Discussions

1. U.S., Israel, and Iran: Escalating Middle East Conflict

[00:17–16:08]

• Trump’s “Military Operation” & Legality

  • NBC reports U.S. military briefs to Trump on Iran start with explosion montages.

  • Trump avoids the word "war" to sidestep constitutional requirements for Congressional approval.

    • Quote:

      “I won't use the word war because they say if you use the word war, that's maybe not a good thing to do. They don't like the word war because you're supposed to get approval.” – Donald Trump [08:33]

  • Troop movements: 1,000 soldiers from 82nd Airborne deploying to the region.

  • Iran expresses skepticism about peace talks, fearing assassination of negotiators—based on past Israeli tactics.

• Congressional & Democratic Response

  • Nancy Mace (R) to support War Powers Resolution; Democratic leaders accused of “dragging their feet.”

  • Democrats may delay the vote for both procedural and political reasons, partly to appease AIPAC and related lobbies.

    • Quote:

      “If you can delay this war powers vote... then the earliest that they can vote on this... would be April 13... It seems like Hakeem Jeffries and Gregory Meeks might be trying to do that kind of two step there, which is unconscionable.” – Emma Vigeland [10:53]

  • Impact of Iranian attacks: U.S. bases in the region now "largely uninhabitable," with troops forced to work from hotels.

• Political Calculations

  • Some Republicans hope U.S. deployments are a bluff to bring Iran to the table, reflecting confusion and disarray.

2. Long-term U.S. Policy and Israel’s Regional Ambitions

Interview with Andrew Arsan [19:18–35:39]

• Historical Roots

  • Kissinger-era strategy after 1973 oil embargo: Split the Middle East, pursue Israeli normalization with neighbors, buy off Gulf states with security guarantees, and sidestep Palestinian sovereignty.

    • Quote:

      “Successive US administrations tried to devise a new kind of regional policy that was... about splitting the region in two... to try to sidestep the Palestinian question...” – Andrew Arsan [23:18]

  • Even "peace deals" like Camp David or Abraham Accords intentionally avoid Palestinian statehood.

• Current Developments: Israel’s New Offensive

  • Ambition to reoccupy southern Lebanon (to the Litani River), reminiscent of previous Israeli occupations.
  • Seeking to break the “axis of resistance” (Iran, Lebanon/Hezbollah, Gaza, formerly Syria).

• Gulf States' Position

  • Gulf regimes (e.g., Saudi Arabia, UAE) are exposed to conflict—absorbing economic and security shocks—but are wary of being dragged fully into war, contrary to U.S. pundit narratives about “the Gulf lobby.”

    • Quote:

      “At the same time, I don't think they wanted to be dragged into this war. ...There is a sense that the war has kind of really hit that image [of stability].” – Andrew Arsan [33:26]

  • U.S. and Israeli strategy: Pressure on Gulf states to formally join the Israeli security umbrella, mixed results—especially after Oct. 7 attacks.

• Continuity in U.S. Policy

  • Across Democratic and Republican administrations, U.S. strategy consistently supports Israeli primacy and suppresses the Palestinian question—notably by both Trump and Biden.

---

3. The AI “Boom” and Data Center Mirage

Interview with Ed Zitron [35:40–59:58]

• Data Center Hype vs. Reality

  • Industry claims of massive expansions (“gigawatts” of new U.S. capacity) are wildly overstated. Only a fraction is under actual construction.

    • Quote:

      “They are talking in terms of hundreds of gigawatts... Of the 190 to 240 gigawatts of planned data centers, 5 gigawatts are actually being constructed. And I actually think it's way less based on everything I've seen.” – Ed Zitron [39:08]

  • Many headline projects are paused, lack permits or funding; e.g., Amarillo, TX “Fermi America” project is on hold.

  • Local economic benefits are overstated: jobs largely temp construction work, minimal operational employment.

  • If projects stall, communities are left with unfinished construction sites (“just a construction field full of crap”).

• The Tech Industry’s Motivations & “Speculation Cascade”

  • Market and political power hinge on the appearance of unstoppable AI growth.
  • AI companies barely profit—Nvidia makes the real money, not OpenAI or Anthropic (which spend far more on compute than they earn).

• Risks of Accelerated AI Integration

  • Tech giants (Meta, Amazon, Microsoft) push LLM (AI) code on employees: increases operational risk, code quality issues, and even recent outages.

  • LLM-generated code risks security and data breaches as non-coders are compelled to ship software.

    • Quote:

      “Amazon lost Hundreds of thousands of orders because a part of the website went down... as a result of someone using AI code.” – Ed Zitron [45:17]

  • Rapid layoffs are driven by debt-fueled overhiring and AI investment needs, not because AI truly replaces most human jobs.

• China as Deflection & Excuse

  • Claims of an "AI race" with China justify speculative investment and government incentives. In reality, evidence of significant Chinese AI capacity is mixed—much is “ghost story” for politicians and the public.
    • Quote:

      “They need AI to be big. But... it's actually quite hard to make anything good happen from AI. The services all lose money...” – Ed Zitron [44:13]

• Legislative Responses & Critique

  • Lawmakers like Bernie Sanders and AOC propose moratoriums on data center construction, echoing AI industry’s own hype about existential risks.

    • Quote:

      “Bernie keeps framing AI in the terms that they want it to... It's this ultra power thing. We should stop before it gets too powerful.” – Ed Zitron [57:25]

  • Zitron suggests a more productive push would be strict regulatory and environmental review, to slow but not frame the debate around AI omnipotence.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On U.S. War Rhetoric:

  "I'm violating the Constitution. I can't call it a war because that would be illegal." – Emma Vigeland paraphrasing Trump [09:06]

• On Data Center Economics:

  "A bunch of people... will leave. It's happened in Amarillo and it's going to happen elsewhere." – Ed Zitron [41:36]

• On Tech Layoffs:

  "AI is not the reason [for layoffs]. Business idiots are." – Ed Zitron [54:24]

• On the AI “Race” with China:

  “It is perfect for imperialism. It allows the imperialist to generate big ideas that are very scary sounding to sell to people that don't think for two seconds." – Ed Zitron [58:30]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Headlines: [00:17–04:13]
• US–Iran, War Powers Debate: [05:04–16:08]
• Andrew Arsan Interview – Israel’s Regional Strategy: [19:18–35:39]
• Ed Zitron Interview – AI Data Center Lies: [35:40–59:58]
• Closing and Plugs: [59:58–end]

---

Tone & Style

The conversation is irreverent, sharp, and deeply critical of mainstream narratives and institutional power (both political and corporate). Emma and her guests blend detailed policy/historical analysis, with satirical undertones and frequent asides lampooning the political and tech establishment. Listeners get not only expert opinions, but also a strong sense of the absurdity and cynicism attending these urgent issues.

---

Additional Context (Skipped in Summary)

• Opening banter, technical difficulties, and ad-reads are omitted.
• The fun half and off-topic banter (e.g., shirts, airport stories, "twerk sushi and poker with the boys") are not included in this summary.

---

Final Takeaway

This episode of The Majority Report expertly dissects the current Middle East crisis as a continuation of decades-old U.S. policies and exposes the AI boom as more financialized hype than reality. Guests add crucial context and counter-narratives rarely found in mainstream discussion, all delivered with the show’s signature wit and skepticism.

Transcript

[Emma Vigeland]

You are listening to a free version of the Majority Report. Support this [e-mail] and get an extra hour of content daily.

[Sam Cedar]

The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.

[Emma Vigeland]

It is Thursday, March 26, 2026. My name is Emma Vigeland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Andrew Arson of the University of Cambridge joins us to talk about his piece in Equator tearing up the Netanyahu's war to remake the Middle East. And later in the show, Ed Zittran back with us to talk about AI data centers and how the industry is overstating how far along they are. Tech would never do that. Also on the program, Trump's military briefings on the Iran war apparently begin with 2 minute montages with big explosions for Boss Baby. Meanwhile, Iran has hardened their demands and 1,000 U.S. soldiers with the Army's 82nd Airborne Division are prepared to deploy to the Middle east in a few days. Iran is worried that renewed peace talks are another ruse to lull them into a false sense of security because of course, why would they not be worried about that?

[Matt Binder]

That's been what's happened the last dark dozen times.

[Emma Vigeland]

Nancy Mace publicly breaks from her party and says she'll likely vote for the Democrats War Powers Resolution. But many believe that Democratic leadership is dragging their feet on this. We'll talk about that in just a second. The top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee apparently is getting a little queasy about troop movements. The DHS funding lapse is severely hitting airports leading to the highest wait times in the history of TSA as unpaid officers cause a staffing crunch. The UN votes 123 to 3 to condemn the transatlantic slave trade. The three no votes are the US Israel and Argentina. So I like to call that the Axis of Epstein and the Nazi Haven. If you want to see these jokes before I make them on the show, follow me. On social media, a new Emerson poll shows Graham Platner leading Janet mills by over 20 points and Susan Collins by seven. Trump's DOJ to settle with Michael Flynn. Another taxpayer funded payout to a MAGA lunatic, Mikey Sherrill signed a trio of pro immigrant bills in New Jersey, including one barring local police cooperation with ice, which I'm very happy to hear about. They were on Phil Murphy's desk and he did not do so. The White House is delaying its nomination for a permanent CDC Director keeping that anti vaxxer, anti masker Bhattacharya as its acting one. And lastly, Florida's Attorney General warns that the NFL's coaching diversity rule, the Rooney Rule, violates civil rights laws. To say you have to interview one black person.

[Matt Binder]

Yeah, it's racist against white.

[Emma Vigeland]

Duh. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Hello, everybody. It isn't a Majority Report. Thursday. I am back. And once again, the camera is just doing amazing stuff this morning here on the show. Does it look as bad as it looks on my monitor?

[Matt Binder]

Not as bad, no.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay, good, good. But either way, I am back. Had a nice little jaunt out to California. If people want to check out the recorded live show of the Bituation Room with myself and Francesca Fiorentini, you can become a patron. It was really fun. We had Van Lathan, Ida Rodriguez as the other guests. And you know, Van kind of stole the show and was making, making people laugh in the crowd. Everyone had a really good time. We did this little pageant segment with some of the local DSA candidates in la. That was pretty great. Camera still acting up. All right, all right. Do we need to.

[Matt Binder]

No, it'll start itself.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay. All right. It's just, just lovely to return right back to my favorite, my favorite parts of the show. The tech issue.

[Sam Cedar]

What's the definition of insanity?

[Emma Vigeland]

And the visuals. So NBC News is reporting that at the beginning of the briefings on the Iran war, the US Military officials that are responsible for briefing Trump show him a two minute video montage of the biggest big booms and explosions in Iran.

[Matt Binder]

Any word? If that's a vertical orientation or if that's a standard 1080p format, they've got it.

[Emma Vigeland]

They do. One for the toilet, one for the situation.

[Matt Binder]

It's on TikTok. I'm scrolling.

[Emma Vigeland]

Meanwhile, 1,000 soldiers with the Army's 82nd Airborne are heading to the Middle east in coming days. Now, this unit was also sent after Trump assassinated Soleimani. They're a rapid response unit. So this in and of itself doesn't mean that a ground invasion is inevitable. But you're also seeing signs from the Republicans in the House that are getting a little bit freaked out about troop movements, which is more of an indication to me than the public deployments Iran is also now admitting. Yes, okay, we're finally, we're talking to the U.S. peace talks are ongoing, but they also are warning mediators that peace talks might be another ruse for the negotiators to be assassinated. It's been a long standing practice by the Israelis that they will target the more reasonable mediators in these instances.

[Matt Binder]

Trump alluded to, like, not wanting to say who they're talking to because they, I mean, we've killed a bunch of their top people.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. Like basically admitting that if we admit who's reasonable here, Israel might kill them

[Matt Binder]

like they've done throughout this Middle east conflict in the past couple years.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. So you also in the House have Axios is reporting that Democrats think that they have the votes on the war powers resolution which could finally restrict Trump, the mad king waging this criminal war of choice. Mike Johnson can only afford one Republican defection and Nancy Mace is already saying that she's going to support this. Plus you have some kind of similar, I guess, freak outs by some Republicans or they're getting queasy about this because, I mean, this is absolute insanity. You have the New York Times reporting that Iran's attacks on the US bases have been so successful that the 13 bases in the region are largely uninhabitable at this point because. And so US Personnel has had to move to hotels and other civilian areas to do their work. So that's also probably how they're selling this ground invasion to members of Congress. Although we'll play this clip of Trump in a second. He doesn't really feel he needs to use Congress here because we can't even really station our troops in the traditional way that we would because they've been rendered uninhabitable. So how do we get a troop presence around Iran if we can't be around there might as well be in Iran. So here is Trump yesterday, I believe, talking about how he's going to break the law.

[Donald Trump]

But they're doing it for two reasons. Number one is they want to deflect from all of the tremendous success that we're having in this military operation. I won't use the word war because they say if you use the word war, that's maybe not a good thing to do. They don't like the word war because you're supposed to get approval. So I'll use the word military operation, which is really what it is. It's called a military decimation. But they don't like the good publicity. They don't like to see us succeed. They want to see our country fail.

[Emma Vigeland]

So just basically admitting, hey, I'm violating the Constitution. I can't call it a war because that would be illegal. So it's not a war. Trust me on this.

[Sam Cedar]

How has his staff not figured out

[Andrew Arson]

that he's going to say everything they say to him.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, there's no, there's not going to

[Sam Cedar]

be a better way to deliver that news to him.

[Emma Vigeland]

There are no, I mean, we're at like base level here. We're at base level. It's just like don't incriminate yourself publicly. But we have to give you the broad contours of how we're trying to avoid the fact that Congress is supposed to be the body that declares war. And like this war powers fight. Ryan Grimm's been on, on top of this. I've been seeing some other reporters, I think it was like Ida Chavez, I believe, covering this on, on Twitter. But these Democrats are potentially dragging out this vote on the War Powers Resolution. They have the votes. Apparently the last four defectors are gonna vote with the rest of the caucus. So they're whipping votes to a degree because they know how unpopular this is. That's Henry Cuellar, that's Jared Golden, Greg Landsman and Juan Vargas. And it seems like they're going to be whipped into shape. But there are Democrats who feel, and this is incredibly cynical, that this could be a win for them, that they can oppose this war with a vote at this point and keep the caucus together potentially, but they can drag it on a little bit because one, it hurts Trump, which they do care about. But perhaps more importantly, they can have it both ways with the Israel lobby that across the AIPAC and the more liberal Zionist factions, they've been wanting war with Iran this entire time. You have the liberal centrist opposition leader in Israel endorsing the Greater Israel idea. So this is like a genuinely, it's a project that Israel hawks have wanted for quite a while. So if you can delay this war powers vote, which they have until Friday and then there's a multi week recess and then the earliest that they can vote on this War powers resolution to stop this criminal war of choice in Iran would be April 13 or something like that. April 11, April 13, around there. It seems like Hakeem Jeffries and Gregory Meeks might be trying to do that kind of two step there, which is unconscionable.

[Matt Binder]

I mean, it makes you wonder how upset they really were that Kamala Harris lost the election last time. If they're willing to play this kind of game, to say, okay, we can kind of slow walk our resistance to this war, make it on procedural grounds and let Trump be responsible for it, and we can posture, I mean, similar to kind of the Iraq war where, you know, of course a lot of Democrats were against it. But belatedly, and a lot of them at the top were for it.

[Emma Vigeland]

Here's Trump's this morning, basically saying that Iran is begging him to make a deal. That is not the case. But he's trying to look tough even as gas prices explode. Like, there was another story I didn't even get to headline this morning. The USPS is going to start charging surcharges for the first time ever on some of these packages because the fuel prices are so insane. Just talk to any. I was talking to my lyft driver in LA. Like you see $6 a gallon. This is going to really impact everyone across the economy right now. $4 is the national average at this point. Here is Trump talking about how we're actually winning this thing.

[Donald Trump]

Set the record straight, because I've been watching the Wall Street Journal's fake news and all these stories that get printed like, oh, I want to make a deal. They are begging to make a deal. Not me. They're begging to make a deal. And anybody that saw what was happening over there would understand why they want to make a deal. But they say, oh, we're not talking to them. Anybody would know that. And only a total. And they're not fools. They're very smart, actually, in a certain way.

[Emma Vigeland]

I like how you surprise negotiators.

[Donald Trump]

I say they're lousy fighters, but they're great negotiators and they are begging to work out a deal. I don't know if we'll be able to do that. I don't know if we're willing to do that. They should have done that four weeks ago. They should have done it two years ago. Or they should have done it when we first came into office. Because two years ago that free reign under Biden, Sleepy Joe, worst president in the history of our country.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay, so as I just mentioned, Iran, which is not the global superpower that the United States is specifically militarily, has essentially decimated every US Military base, save for a handful in and around the GCC states. And US Forces are being forced to work out of hotels, but apparently safe

[Matt Binder]

for the other people in those hotels.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, human shields, yeah. The Israelification of everything. I mean, let's just be real that like we're bombing schools like our colony in the Middle east does. These are just kind of the normalization of the tactics that we normally outsource to our subcontractor in the Middle east, the largest aircraft carrier in the Middle east, as I believe Ronald Reagan's Secretary of State fondly referred to Israel Iran is able to win this war of attrition. It's just going to be a question of whether what head on the spike Trump can get that he can claim this is some sort of rhetorical victory. You keep seeing that the timeline for this war keeps getting pushed back.

[Matt Binder]

Now, Dave Rubin said about two more weeks.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, cool. Well, the Wall Street Journal says now mid May is the new deadline because Trump wants this over before his meeting with Xi Jinping and summit.

[Matt Binder]

Okay, it's about six weeks.

[Andrew Arson]

Okay.

[Matt Binder]

I guess Dave Rubin might be a little bit off. So I just want to make one comment on, you know, 3,000 or so troops being sailed over there at great expense to the American taxpayer. And Representative Ryan McKenzie, Republican out of Pennsylvania, vulnerable incumbent. This is from Politico. Republican up for reelection, said he's wary of ground troops, but he expressed hope that the latest Middle east deployment is a tactic by Trump meant to force the Iranian regime to the bargaining table. Is it good when you're in the middle of a war and members of your own party say, yeah, I hope he's just bluffing. I hope this is just a bluff that's happening right now. Does that undermine maybe like even the strategy you're taking? Like this is a complete clusterfuck?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yep, exactly right. In a moment, we'll be talking a bit more about what the implications are for the map of the Middle east with our guest, Alex Arson. But first, a word from one of our sponsors. This episode is sponsored by Liquid iv. It's really important to stay hydrated, especially as we're getting into springtime. You don't know how the seasons are going to affect your hydration. But I also like to use Liquid IV when I'm traveling. You got the science backed live formula that helps you trust that you are staying hydrated and it's very tasty as well. This spring, we're looking forward to longer sun drenched days. And that means we need better hydration to keep us hydrated with Liquid IV's mix of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients. And right now you get 20% off your first order with code majority rep at checkout. I love Liquid iv. Sam is a daily drinker of it. I'm basically a daily drinker of it. I love the acai, I love the strawberry. I love the fruitier flavors. But you can also, there's like lemon, lime, there's a bunch of different flavors. And you don't have to worry about some of those other drinks that promote hydration but have all of those chemicals and stuff in it. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates faster than water alone. Powered by Live Hydro Science, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. Liquid IV is a science backed hydration you can trust. Pour tear, sorry Tare pour live more go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first purchase with code MAJORITYREP at checkout. That's 20% off your first purchase with Code MAJORITYREPIDiquidIV.com, link down below in the video and episode descriptions. And at Majority FM, go to LiquidIV.com and use code MAJORITYREP at checkout for 20% off your first order. Quick break and when we come back, we'll be talking to Andrew Arson.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Sam.

[Emma Vigeland]

We are back and we are joined now by Andrew Arson, professor of Arab and global history at the University of Cambridge, whose latest piece in the Quair is entitled Tearing up the Netanyahu's War to Remake the Middle East. Andrew, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

[Andrew Arson]

Thanks for having me, Emma. Yeah, it's great to be here.

[Emma Vigeland]

Of course. So Equator is a new magazine. People should really check it out. Doing some great work over there. You write that the Middle east is never going to look the same after this. Let's just start from a broad strokes perspective, if you could expand on that.

[Andrew Arson]

Yeah, I mean, first things first. Just a little shout out to the good folks at Equator. As you said, it's a new publication, online publication, some wonderful editors, Jonathan Chanin who used to work at the Guardian, a bunch of other great people like Raatek Sokan who worked on this piece. And they're trying to give a kind of decolonial alternative to publications like the New York Review, the London Reviewer. Books really spotlight voices from the global south and experiences from the global south from places like the Middle east, sub Saharan Africa. So you're asking about the Middle east and how it'll change. Broad strokes. I mean, not to sound like a policy wonk, this is an incredibly fluid situation that's changing day by day. But I think if you look at the public statements that are coming out of the Israeli officials in particular, there is a very clear ambition to redraw the map of the region and to try to assert Israel's regional hegemony not just vis a vis Iran, but also when it comes to relations with the Gulf states, the GCC states, and also Israel's immediate neighborhood, immediate vicinity states like Lebanon and like Syria that border, Israel.

[Emma Vigeland]

Let's talk about Lebanon. There's been just absolute carnage there. Israel appears to be setting up some sort of prolonged occupation, specifically in the areas south of the Litany River. Your piece goes into the history of US policy of dividing the region. Perhaps you can talk about that present situation and put it in the context of your piece as well.

[Andrew Arson]

Yeah, I mean, that certainly is the fear that Israel is returning to the occupation of South Lebanon. Of course, it occupied much of that region between the 70s, 80s and 2000s. And Israeli officials have been very explicit in their desire to push far into Lebanese territory, 30 km from the Israeli border, from the ceasefire line all the way up to the Litany River. And yeah, ground operations were ongoing. At the moment they're trying to push closer into areas very close to the Litany River. So there's a very long history of this, of trying to create a kind of buffer zone in South Lebanon, trying to empty the region of its population and of what Israel sees as threats to its security. First the PLO and other Palestinian organizations in the 70s and 80s, then from the 80s onwards, Hezbollah and other kind of elements of the Islamic resistance. And yeah, to put it in a regional context, I think there has been, I mean, I think this wall very much shows the kind of attempt to frame this in a regional context and to try to break the power of the so called axis of resistance that emerged from the 2000 thousands onwards, centered on Tehran, but obviously with branches in Gaza in Lebanon and also up till 2024 in Syria in the Assad regime.

[Emma Vigeland]

Let's go back to the 1970s and the 1973 oil shock, which is where your piece kind of really begins. It all comes back to Kissinger, does it not? But let's speak a bit about the history and how kind of this modern attempt to divide the region came to be during that period after the 1973 Arab Israeli War.

[Andrew Arson]

Right. So, yeah, that's one of the things that my piece was trying to do was to think historically about this, not just in terms of Lebanon or Syria, I've written elsewhere about Lebanon, about Israel's wars in Lebanon, but to think about U.S. policy in the region and the way that from the 1970s onwards, and especially after the 73 Arab Israeli war, the Yom Kippur War, the Ramadan War and the Oil shock, the oil crisis of 73, the way that successive US administrations tried to devise a new kind of regional policy that was very much about splitting the region in two. I call it in the piece, kind of thinking about the region like a diptych of two distinct parts. On the one hand, trying to secure Israeli security through normalization, what Kissinger called step by step diplomacy, working with governments in Cairo, in Damascus, in Beirut, in Haman, to try to secure normalization with Israel and to try to sidestep the Palestinian question and the Palestinian and Palestinian political actors and to try to kind of really suspend the question of Palestinian statehood. And very much linked to that, trying to neutralize the potential threat of another oil shock coming from the Gulf states. So effectively, not to put too fine a point on it, kind of buying off the Gulf states, buying off Gulf capitals, Riyadh, but also other states like Qatar, like Kuwait, like Bahrain, by providing military assistance, by selling weaponry, by training their security forces and their armies, and by trying to provide a kind of security blanket and in that way to guarantee that they wouldn't ever again use the oil weapon, as it was called in the 70s, to try to put pressure on Israel and on the US to find some kind of just and comprehensive regional peace.

[Emma Vigeland]

And would you say that that strategy was successful? Because we're seeing Iran throttle the strait, obviously, and use the oil weapon, as the United States would put it, to their advantage. But the Gulf states largely have been brought under the United States umbrella via security guarantees. But we are seeing the limits of that. And perhaps we can talk more about how the Gulf states are going to be responding to this chaotic and destructive war that's already costing them billions and billions of dollars.

[Andrew Arson]

Right. I mean, it's in some ways it has been successful by Washington's terms, in terms of kind of, at the very least, kind of for several decades, neutralizing the potential of an oil threat. It's secured some measure of normalization over the course of the 70s and 80s and 2000s. The Camp David accords with Egypt, more latterly, of course, The Abraham Accords, 2020, the Trump administration. But it's, it was always a very fragile. One of the things I tried to say is it was always a very fragile, very precarious kind of balance. This attempt to kind of split the region was always an artificial separation. And there was always, of course, under running it, the threat that the Gulf states or that Iran, the other states in the Gulf, could use oil as a weapon. That happened in the 80s to an extent. I mean, in some ways, the current Iranian blockade of the Strait of Hormuz was foreshadowed in the Iran Iraq conflict. Washington from the mid-80s onwards was backing Saddam Hussein, let us not forget that, until he invaded Kuwait. But Iran very effectively at that point used the so called tanker wars to put pressure on Baghdad and to shut off Iraqi oil exports and put pressure on the Iraqi economy. So there are some kind of precedents here that suggest that this is always a kind of fragile balance that the US Was trying to broker and we're now seeing the consequences play out. The inherent kind of incoherence of that policy really being drawn out by the war at the moment and the ways that Iran is trying to use its leverage in this kind of very asymmetrical conflict with Israel and with the US

[Emma Vigeland]

however, the consistency that is throughout all of this is even when you go to the Carter administration, Carter gets credit later in his life for speaking empathetically about the Palestinian cause. But even his presidency was a continuation of a project of sidestepping Palestinian sovereignty, right?

[Andrew Arson]

Yeah, he talks about his desire to see a Palestinian homeland, but yeah, the Camp David Accords, you know, infamously don't talk about a Palestinian state. You know, it's just another instance of US Administration kind of avoiding any kind of talk of Palestinian sovereignty and Palestinian statehood and Palestinian self determination and using terms like self governing authority to kind of talk about a kind of zombie sovereignty that we really see embodied in the oslo Accords after 1993 and then in the kind of Trump and Kushner plans after 2020. This kind of, I call it a mutilated kind of sovereignty. No real control over your borders, no control over your airspace, over your security, no contiguous territory. And this idea of kind of a governing authority, not a state.

[Emma Vigeland]

And then this war here, the Abraham Accords, that effort was pursued across Trump 1.0, then Biden, and now today. You see how, and bringing up Carter in your piece too, like how consistent these foreign policy objectives are across administrations and how little divergence there is except towards hawkishness, at least in this instance. I would love if we had consistency from Obama's second term to Trump's first term, for example. But Trump came in and ripped up the jcpoa. But do you see this war as Trump's kind of impatience showing through in his ability or in his fixation on trying to bring the Gulf states under the Israeli umbrella via the Abraham Accords. And I shouldn't just include Trump here, of course, because Netanyahu's prominently featured in your piece and we know what his objectives are.

[Andrew Arson]

Right? I mean, I think one of the, Weirdly, perhaps the one U.S. administration that moved away from this to an extent was the George Bush the elder during the Madrid protest. It sounds Strange saying this on the Majority Report, but you had a Republican president and a secretary of state who were speaking to AIPAC and to other kind of Israeli policymakers in a way that seems unimaginable now, calling on them to kind of come to the table, calling on them to stop settlements, putting kind of financial pressures on them to stop settlements. But even there, the continuity, the thread was that again, the Bush administration, you know, really saw the Palestinians as having to take the first step towards peace. You know, Rashid Khalidi talks, writes very eloquently about this and again, being worried about talking about statehood or stopping short of speaking of Palestinian statehood. Now, in terms of the Abraham Accords, I think there was, yeah. On the part, I think, both of the Trump administration and the White House, and it seems Netanyahu as well, this sense that in some ways this would be a way of unlocking reluctance on part of some of the Gulf states to come into the Abraham Accords, that kind of, by breaking Iran's power, by breaking the axis of resistance, they could bring the Gulf states on board. So you had this kind of first part of the Abraham Accords coming on Stream in 2020, Bahrain, the UAE. But Saudi Arabia in some ways is the jewel in the crown. And it's maybe coming close to a security arrangement with Israel and with the US in the lead up to the 7th of October, of course, that fell apart. And so Saudi Arabia especially kind of remains outside the Haberman Accords, but it's not the only one. Now, whether those hopes are kind of well founded, I'm not sure. Clearly, there's been talk in the last couple of days of, you know, the White House has been briefing the mbs, the Saudi crown prince has been on the phone to Trump asking him to send ground forces into Iran. Of course, MBS has got a track record himself of kind of interventionism and misadventures in Yemen. Whether that's true or not, I wouldn't be able to say. But it's certainly the case that kind of the Gulf states are certainly angry with Washington and are worried about the, the lack of protection coming from Washington and the lack of security guarantees. You know, they're at the front line. They've been exposed to the drones and to the missiles coming from Iran. And they're feeling that quite acutely, I think, in the last few weeks.

[Emma Vigeland]

So we can't judge the sincerity of Mohammed bin Salman saying sending ground troops. Right, because he's trying to appeal to Trump in whatever ways that he can. But in terms of like, overestimating the Gulf states desire for war. Here, you wouldn't know that if you listen to Rachel Maddow on msnbc, who's doing monologues about how it's the Gulf state lobby that's dragging the US into this war. Conveniently, she also did a monologue about how it was Jeffrey Epstein's Russia ties that need to be focused on in its influence of Trump. It feels like we're leaving out this very significant country in the Middle east that is dragging us all to hell. So, I mean, if you could just speak a bit about that perception, because the damage that these Gulf states, we touched on it earlier, but that they're absorbing is significant. And I can't imagine that they want this conflict to continue.

[Andrew Arson]

Yeah, I mean, I think on the one hand, clearly they do perceive Iran and the Islamic Republic as an existential threat. There's been a diplomatic rapprochement in recent years between Riyadh, between Saudi Arabia and Tehran. But that notwithstanding, I mean, there is a history of kind of animosity and antagonism, of suspicion going back to the 70s and 80s. But at the same time, I don't think they wanted to be dragged into this war. And I think there is a real kind of sense of anxiety about the war and about what this means for their future, not just in terms of energy, but also for a state like Dubai that tries to project this image as a haven of tranquility, as a kind of safe place for expats and for crime lords and for all kinds of kind of vagabonds. There is a sense that the war has kind of really hit that image. You see it in the kinds of social media output that's been there since the first days of the war, kind of really trying to reassure people that Dubai remains a safe place for expats to go and to kind of make their living to. So there's a real sense of frustration. And I think, to come back to your question, Netanyahu, there's a quote in my piece that Netanyahu kind of, I think, told Fox News that he foresaw many, many treaties to come. And I think maybe he was talking about the Gulf states, but also about the kind of pressure, the kind of military pressure that he and Washington could bring to bear on Beirut and on Damascus. But I think here I'm going with reporting of people who know more about Israeli politics than I do. Somebody like Ruth Margaret in the New Yorker, for example, who has kind of, you pointed out that the Gulf states are not necessarily quite so keen to kind of join the Abraham Accords precisely because of the ways in which Netanyahu and Trump have kind of unleashed this regional war and again have exposed them to two attacks from Iran.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, China's got to be pretty thrilled. Just sit back and watch your opponent punch themselves in the face. Andrew Arson, professor of Arab and global history at the University of Cambridge. You can read his latest piece in Equator entitled Tearing up the Netanyahu's War to Remake the Middle East. Andrew, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Really appreciate it.

[Andrew Arson]

Thanks for having me.

[Emma Vigeland]

Of course. Quick break and when we come back, we'll be joined by Ed Zittran to give us an update on the latest lies coming out of AI and how far along they are with things like database construction as they try to get investment. Be right back. We are back. And we are joined now by Ed Zitron, friend of the show, publisher of the where is your Ed at? Newsletter and host of the Better Offline podcast. Ed, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

[Sam Cedar]

What's up?

[Emma Vigeland]

Not much.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. So

[Emma Vigeland]

you on your newsletter that everyone should be checking out the where's your Ed at? Newsletter have a new piece about how the AI industry is lying to us. Not nothing new, but what's interesting is how they are lying and they appear to be lying about the capacity of these data centers, which is really important because right now across the US there's like this grassroots outrage about construction of data centers in different areas of the country. So how is the AI industry lying about this and why?

[Sam Cedar]

So you've probably heard all sorts of announcements of like gigawatt data centers, 100 megawatt data centers, all this. So based on my analysis, it appears that only about 3 gigawatts of actual capacity got brought on online last year in America, which sounds like a lot, but there's over somewhere between 190 and 240 gigawatts of planned capacity worldwide. A great deal of that is in America. A lot of that's actually like northern Virginia, southern Virginia, Columbus, Ohio, the first new thing in Ohio in 100 years. A lot of people are going to love that.

[Emma Vigeland]

Can I just say, when you say Virginia, Mark Warner, senator from Virginia, called AOC and Bernie's AI Data Center Moratorium Bill, like really stupid or idiotic or something like that. Very, very harsh words from a Democrat to other Democrats might have something to do with it.

[Sam Cedar]

It's shocking to hear a Democrat who's growth obsessed. But anywho, Sightline Climate also found that despite there being 16 gigawatts worth of data center capacity that's meant to come online this year. Worldwide, only 5 gigawatts is in construction, which can mean everything from a single steel beam to a near complete data center. So to give some context, Nvidia sold about $62 billion in its data center segment last year, which is GPUs and the associated gear with them. The current rate of installation we are running about six months for a quarter worth of data center sales from Nvidia going online every. Every six months takes a quarter to bring that online. This is a data center package that gets upgraded every year. So right now it's taking so long for these things to get built. And I went and looked into all of the major constructions, all of the big ones. Fermi America is a great 1-11-Gigawatt thing out in Amarillo, Texas. Turns out that it's just on pause. Turns out they didn't have the permitting or the funding. Just not happening. Stargate Abilene, not going to get done this year. May not get next. Only two buildings out of a. The story they want you to believe is that all of this is inevitable when in reality of the 190 to 240 gigawatts of planned data centers, 5 gigawatts are actually being constructed. And I actually think it's way less based on everything I've seen. For the most part I've struggled to find a Data center above 10 megawatts that's actually completed now. I think a lot of that capacity coming online was smaller data centers dotted around the country. I mean 310 megawatt data centers equals 3,000. There you go. Simple maths. I'm not that smart. But they're talking in terms of hundreds of gigawatts. They're talking in terms of all of this stuff. At this point, I don't know if we're going to be able to install last year's GPUs before the year 2028. So the entire the largest company on the stock market, Nvidia, is selling gigawatts and gigawatts of chips that are going to take years to actually digest. Which brings me to the question of why we're still selling them. Why, why would people are still buying them. Why? What's happening with these data centers? And I think it's going to turn out that most of these data centers are just vaporware. They're construction slush funds. They are tax abatements. Three tax abatements in a trench coat and it's very strange because the story that local governors will tell you is data centers. They bring a bunch of jobs. What data centers actually do is they bring a lot of jobs into the state from outside the state. The economic boost is temporary and it's brought by people that do not live there. For the most part. Data centers have very small teams when they come online, whenever that will be. And on top of all of this, there is a real civic risk to these data centers above and beyond the environmental problems. Find the New Jersey data center has a vague humming sound coming from it that people have been complaining about. And that's the fact that if these projects get mothballed, if they just run out of money, which is very likely, all that's going to be left is this construction field full of crap that probably never gets cleaned up. It's going to be a bunch of promises to local authorities that things are going to happen, things that never get built, and a bunch of people, construction workers that were feeding money into the economy who will leave. It's happened in Amarillo and it's going to happen elsewhere.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, then it begs the question, what does that do to the economy that is completely right now over saturated or over leveraged when it comes to AI? And Trump's big bet on the economy is AI. If this is as overvalued as you say, and that like the capacity just is not there, but there needs that, but chips are continuing to be bought is like, when is the market going to figure that out?

[Sam Cedar]

So the market right now feels a titch manipulated. I feel like just like 15 minutes before market, I was like, Iran has given up. It's beautiful. We have no more Iran. They've joined America. They're a new state. And then the market goes up and then Iran comes out and says, no, that's not true at all. And market goes down. But putting all that aside, the actual economic effects of AI are very small. Based on data from the, the Department of Commerce, I think it is like there was only about $28 billion worth of construction in data centers in 2025. It's very, very small compared to how many actual GPUs were sold outside of hardware manufacturers like Nvidia or SanDisk. Who does the, who does the hard drives and such and the solid state hard drives or I mean Micron as well, like the RAM manufacturers like SK, Hynix and Samsung. Outside of them, AI companies are not making much money. Anthropic. They had to reveal this in the Department of Defense lawsuit to try and get that supply chain risk designation removed. They had to admit they've only made $5 billion in their entire lifetime and they spent $10 billion on compute. The biggest economic effect here is Nvidia. And after that there's very little else. The data center projects, I think, are just slowing to a crawl because construction is slow and expensive. And most of these things don't appear properly capitalized. So what we are seeing is a mirage economy. We are seeing something that is a hypothetical built on another hypothetical, the ultimate speculative economy. And the problem with that is at some point you run out of things to speculate on. And also somebody's going to need a real dollar. The reason I pick on Fermi America and Amarillo is because when the money wasn't there, the construction workers just got dumped. When you start seeing that happen, that's how you know the party's over. AI, they want it to be a big thing because they run out of hypergrowth ideas. They don't have the next big thing. They haven't had one for a while. So they need AI to be big. But the problem is that it's actually quite hard to make anything good happen from AI. The services all lose money, and even the money they make is quite small. I have suspicions over the revenue with OpenAI and Anthropic anyway, but everyone wants this to be a thing so badly because once they accept ism, they have to accept the tech industry has hit a wall and hit one quite a few years ago. Yeah, and instead they've decided to spin up these fucking data centers for no goddamn reason but AI demand. That does not exist. The demand is not there. The biggest consumer of COMPUTE is OpenAI, followed by Anthropic, followed by hyperscalers that are just running their own services that people don't like.

[Emma Vigeland]

Can you explain what hyperscalers means? Because there's another section of. No, it's okay. Of your piece where you're basically talking about how these hyperscalers are forcing their employees to integrate AI. And the employees and the customers hate it.

[Sam Cedar]

So hyperscaler refers to a hyperscale company like Meta, Amazon, Microsoft or Google. Oracle is kind of on the borderline there. And we could talk about Oracle. They're one of my favorite things to make fun of, but nevertheless. So the story there was companies like Meta and Microsoft are saying, like, you have to use generative AI, you have to use LLM code, and you need to also ship code faster than you've ever shipped it before. This is already creating situations where Amazon lost Hundreds of thousands of orders because a part of the website went down. Amazon Web Services went down as well as a result of someone using AI code. You have people in hyperscale companies, I can't say specifically which, where you have non technical people like designers, even writers, in some cases shipping code that eventually makes it into the product itself. This may seem magical. It doesn't mean the code's good. You've got some poor asshole, some software engineer who has to look over this slop code and go, is this good? Is this okay? But I also have all my own work, so looks fine and things are already breaking. You had a massive incident at Meta recently because some dick wad used openclaw, which is a whole thing. If you HEAR Someone say Openclaw, dial 911. They probably committed some kind of crime. But Openclaw is just this insane thing where people buy Mac Minis and spin up a bunch of useless LLM services and spend hundreds of dollars a day anyway. Somebody did that at Meta and leaked a bunch of sensitive data that shouldn't have been out there. That's good, we love that.

[Andrew Arson]

So

[Sam Cedar]

I think we're approaching a point where these services are going to start to degrade and we're kind of already seeing the signs. They are. And I think as more of this slot code gets pushed in by people that can write software, that people that can kind of write software and the people that can't write software, you're just going to have this situation where reams of code are being written and shipped without anyone reading them and things are going to start breaking. And when things start breaking at scale, they're quite hard to fix. Especially when you keep laying people off. So you have mountains of code that no one's reading. You're laying people off. So the people that might have actually prodded the LLM so you could see why they did it, instead you've got a bunch of code written by a machine with no intention and that whole code is being shipped and the people that ship that code have been fired. You've got smaller teams looking at more code. What do you think is going to happen? It's going to get built poorly. It's all going to fall apart. It's already falling apart. It's going to be very funny for those of us who critique it, but it's also going to be bad for the users of the service. I worry about how many of these companies are very sensitive data about people, credit cards, Social Security numbers, private emails, that kind of thing. People will say I'm being alarmist, but Amazon's losing orders because of AI coding tools.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, why would you be. I mean, like, we are in the midst of seeing this lawsuit over doge. This. I mean, they, they very likely stole Social Security numbers, sensitive bank information, credit card information, and threw it into grok. I mean, like, this is. These are companies that are explicitly. Well, they're trying to outrace China because American capitalists have intellectual property over AI, but they're stealing everybody else's intellectual property in the process.

[Sam Cedar]

Which, I mean, I'm not separate though the Doge thing was they took the data and just fed it into Groffman. Like, what are the most based Social Security numbers? Yeah, like bullshit like that. What I'm talking about is the major software companies are building or have to have many, many coding people who are just letting the code be written by the machines. Codes do not. That code is written by LLMs that do not think, do not have intention. So you just have this unintentional code slop and they're like, yep, looks fine. Nothing's broken yet. It's fine. Which means that when you're working with sensitive systems that may have Social Security numbers, well, things are just going to start breaking and that stuff leaks. We already have data breaches before this. It's terrifying.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes. I'm just trying to. I get what you're saying. The fast and loose nature of the move fast and break things means breaking the open the safe and stealing all of your sensitive information if necessary. Because they're all racing one another as well.

[Sam Cedar]

Or just leaving the door open.

[Emma Vigeland]

That too.

[Sam Cedar]

The China thing is so funny as well, because it's like the pants shitting competition. Like, wow, who could waste the most money? Who can make the machine that's the least popular? Who can violate the most copyrights? Who can make a video that makes goofy, say gorsh or fuck? Anything moves like in Blue Velvet, who is going to do, like, what's the next big thing that we can do that nobody likes?

[Andrew Arson]

What may.

[Sam Cedar]

Which company will be the next to lose billions of dollars? Like, what are we doing? Why are we doing this? Oh, AI is replacing coders. No, it's not. It just factually isn't. You may have people writing all their code with LLMs. That doesn't mean they're being replaced. People are being laid off. It's not because of AI. It's because these companies overhired and they are spending so much on AI that they need to save money by firing people. Just feels apocalyptic at Times. And I think China is absolutely goading America with this. I think that they just go like, oh, oh, we're gonna. Well, I mean, we. They've already got the latest generation GPUs. Oh, what they're gonna do with that? Oh, oh, the big scary. China's gonna. China's gonna. Xi Jinping's gonna come. Oh, he's gonna come in the computer and he's gonna steal your models. Ooh, to what end? To what end? Minimax, big Chinese AI company. They made tens of millions of dollars of revenue last year and lost over 200 million. When you actually look at the economics and you actually look at the outputs, all of this is just kind of shit.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, right. And I mean the China piece, can you expand on that a bit more? Just because there, there is obviously more collaboration than is being advertised for nationalist ends here in the United States.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, it's weird because so to be clear, I cannot tell you for sure, but it's the latest generation GPUs keep making it to China. The latest one was Super Micro, which is one of the major AI server builders. Major Nvidia partner. There was a picture of Wally Liao, who was one of the guys who was arrested. Like two guys away from Jensen Huang, the CEO of Nvidia. But of course, nobody's asked Nvidia about it. No one's got a comment. People have talked to Jensen Huang since and just nothing. Anyway, Supermicro shipped at least half a billion dollars worth of GPUs, the latest generation, to China. Like taking serial numbers off with hair dryers. Kind of sick, like, kind of just like finally some real crime. But before that, there was this Neo Clouds, just an AI compute company in Singapore called Megaspeed. And Bloomberg did this story last year about them. Now again, can't say anything for sure, but Megaspeed had an investor presentation that meant that was saying, we're building data centers here, here and here. And we just have a secret one up here in a named unnamed place. Then there's a completely different company based in China with an identical investor deck saying, yeah, that was in Beijing. This company also mysteriously had missing GPUs. It was not clear where they were going. And they've definitely got. Definitely seems like some of them have made it to China. And also there was a picture of the CEO with Jensen Huang of Nvidia. So it's very obvious that something is happening that gets these GPUs to China. Now I truly don't know whether Jensen Huang knows I would be A fool to make a statement that would say for sure. But it's a little bit suspicious, little bit suspicious that this keeps happening. It's a little bit suspicious that Nvidia declaratively denies it every time. And then hundreds of millions of dollars, these fucking things get over there. I think it's going to turn out that someone knew, I don't know who knew, who knows who? Like who could possibly be the person at Nvidia that would know these were getting there. I just also think it's very unlikely that no one had any idea they were in China. These things do phone home. Like it's very obvious that they do. And I think. I don't know, I truly don't know how it ends, but it sure looks like somebody in video must know. And if that's the case, that is criminal. But I also think that this whole thing with China is just an imaginary fight.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, Just we must find commies. Yeah. I mean, it's just an excuse for more kind of investment giveaways to corporations using the guise of national security to over inflate a sector, as has been done. I mean, gosh, for weapons, for, you know, different kind of indulgences, industrial policy for quite a while, for obviously the space race. This feels like an attempt to recreate that. But what's coming out of it is so impractical and actually detrimental to the American public via the labor market. I mean, you've touched on it, but what are we looking at right now with the ramifications for all of these people that are going to be laid off? And of course they're overselling the ability of AI to replace them. But it doesn't mean that the shock isn't going to be this intense.

[Sam Cedar]

But the thing is, AI driven, as in like AI replacing layoffs, are not happening at scale. You have contractors, you have art directors, translators, transcribers. Brian Merchant of Bloody in the Machine, Pardon me, does a great job covering this. But at scale, like these massive companies like Blockchain, they are not replacing people with AI. In every example of someone claiming they do, like Klarna, for example, they fired a bunch of people saying they could replace customer service with AI and then had to rehire people. It's just like every single one of these stories is just a falsehood, just an utter lie. So the ramifications will be layoffs that were going to happen are going to happen. I've been saying for years that layoffs are going to happen in big tech because I cost so much money that they have to lay people off. Whether or not I can replace them or not is irrelevant. So what's going to happen is the pressure on people at these companies, the pressure internally is only ratcheting up. I've already heard this is happening in Microsoft. Microsoft I actually heard is doing token austerity. You're being encouraged to use different models, not burn as much money. Very nasty, very bad. Doesn't sound good to me. But nevertheless, workers are just going to get treated even more like shit as a result of these layoffs. But AI is not the reason. Business idiots are. They're assholes at the top. And I think by the end of this, one of these hyperscalers is going to lose their head. I think we seriously are looking at the end of Oracle. I think Larry Ellison could be reduced to rubble. And I'm quite serious. I think Satya Nadella gets fired by the end of this. I think that Sam Altman tries to blame a woman called Fiji Simo who became the CEO of Applications OpenAI. Of course, a woman takes the fall for a man's fuck ups. Nice. Very nice, Sammy. I think that we're going to all look back on this with an insufficient amount of shame. I think that there is so many people are going to need to feel ashamed here because so much of this, so many of these actions have been taken based on mythology and ghost stories. The idea that we need to do this to stop China. To stop China from doing what? Generating sexier Garfields? Generating more copyright violations? Like what are we stopping China from doing? They've got the Blackwell GPUs now. Now what? What has China done with them? What are we so scared of? What are we so scared of? Like what is it that China's doing that's so scary? Oh no, China's distilling models.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, it's interesting and we can wrap after this because I'm seeing some frustration. Even we have it on our sound sheet. We may get to it later. But AOC and Bernie's bill to put the moratorium on the construction of these data centers. Bernie Sanders here in the United States seems to have kind of bought into the idea that AI is this existential threat to humanity. I've seen that that perhaps isn't the best. Some people being critical, skeptical of that angle because it just kind of reinforces what the AI investor class wants people to think because this is so powerful. What's your assessment of his framing on this?

[Sam Cedar]

I like Bernie, but the video he did talking to Claude was one of the most Embarrassing things I've seen in my life. Someone on Blue sky posted that. It was like that scene from Simpsons where March went home. Oh, look, it's that bird you like arguing with. I think that Ewan Higgins actually had a really good point about this. That Bernie keeps framing AI in the terms that they want it to, that the industry wants to. It's this ultra power thing. We should stop before it gets too powerful. The data centers, they have plenty of compute. The whole if we get more compute, it will be more powerful thing is just kind of a myth at this point. It gets better at benchmarks that are rigged. I think a data center moratorium is unrealistic. Like sure, if they do it, but it will never go anywhere. It's just a big stupid package that if they actually wanted to stop these things, they would create something more. I know this sounds centrist, but it isn't. This is a genuine thing. The way to stop these data centers is to slow them down. All of them are funded by debt and they're interest only payments until they are fully constructed. Slow them down. Force an environmental review on every single global national data center.

[Emma Vigeland]

That is very anti abundance of you.

[Sam Cedar]

Fuck the abundance people. I'm sick of fucking tired of it. Ezra fucking Klein needs to stop talking about AI. He sounds like he has a fucking concussion. Pardon me, I apparently have to need to call my therapist about Ezra Klein. But it's this like the polyamory of AI. It's just this thing of like, oh God, it's so important. We need more of it. We already have plenty. We have plenty. Well, what if it becomes AGI? What if the Grinch appears in New York City with a time bomb? Like, what if a giant bird carries me away and drops me from 5,000ft in the air? These are all more realistic than AGI. And I think that Bernie's bought into it. I think that it's AI exploits ignorance and fear and jingoism and it is perfect for imperialism. It allows the imperialist to generate big ideas that are very scary sounding to sell to people that don't think for two seconds. And I'm frustrated because if Bernie actually fucking listened, if AOC actually fucking listened and actually focused on the real problems, they would find the ways to actually stop this, which is to slow it down. Not because of the powerful AI might become more powerful, but because these data centers shouldn't be being built. They're not going to have good economic effects. They don't create jobs. They need to be reviewed, throw paperwork on them, make them go through the paperwork. If they're valid businesses, they'll survive it. But they're not. Every data center is pretty much unprofitable, especially with the debt. Slow them down, fucking stop them. But don't do so in the name of some boogeyman. AGI well said.

[Emma Vigeland]

I do think, yeah, it reinforces framing that gives them way too much credit for the product that they're creating here. Ed Zitrin, the newsletter is where's your Ed at? Obviously. And of course the better offline podcast Essential Works during this time. Thanks so much for coming on the show. I'd really appreciate it.

[Sam Cedar]

Thanks for having me.

[Emma Vigeland]

Of course. With that, folks, we're going to wrap up the first part of the show, the free part. Although one quick plug here, actually. So you know, I was out in California on my way. I'm at the airport. You guys know I'm popping an edible before I'm getting on my flight. Having a good time.

[Sam Cedar]

Better than a Xanax.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, it is better than that.

[Sam Cedar]

I switched from Xanax to edibles when I fly and it's way healthier.

[Emma Vigeland]

Having a good time, Feeling good. I'm wearing my democratic DSA merch or it's dream for nyc and I posted this picture and it like started trending because people were comparing me to that guy that wore the like indict Joe Biden or something T shirt on the plane.

[Sam Cedar]

Convicted felon.

[Emma Vigeland]

Convicted felon. And unfortunately yes, it is like a funny comparison because this was a bit corny for me to tweet out but like, I don't know, I was in a good mood, laughing, having a good time off my on the my alone at the airport and I tweeted out this picture and people were just like losing their minds about me, pretending like I thought this was some sort of revolutionary act. Like I go on Twitter after I get off my flight and I see top today's news, Emma Viglan's anti billionaire sweatshirt draws online fire at airports. Move to Cuba. Yeah.

[Matt Binder]

Has Emma landed yet?

[Emma Vigeland]

I was, I was in shock. Okay. But then I'm, I'm trying to plug the sweatshirt because it is so comfortable. I love, I like love a good comfy travel outfit. And it's now kind of been my staple. And I'm tagging dsa, but then I'm also getting messages from them like, no, this, you're tagging the wrong people. I'm okay, great.

[Matt Binder]

It's a dream for nyc.

[Emma Vigeland]

This is way too overstimulating for the selfie. Okay, so I now have. But this is for a good cause. So I now have like the actual information here. And the Dream team reached out to me and I wanted to read this because this is from the Don't Rank Evil Andrew for Mayor dream campaign. We can take my stupid face off the screen now.

[Matt Binder]

It was Don't Rank Evil Andrew. But first it was Don't Rank Eric Adams.

[Emma Vigeland]

Eric Adams.

[Matt Binder]

And then it was Don't Rank Eric or Andrew. And then it was Don't Rank Evil Andrew through three different iterations.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's resilient as an acronym. So this is the information on this. If you guys like that sweatshirt or if you hate it like so many people seem to, I want to buy

[Matt Binder]

it and burn it.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah, TikTok video you show them.

[Emma Vigeland]

So this is an email I got from the Dream Team. Last year we created the Don't Rank Evil Andrew for Mayor dream campaign. Our goal is to turn anti Cuomo ranked choice strategy into common sense with a culture first strategy that would break out of the political bubble. Our Don't Rank Cuomo shirts became a defining part of the race. Doing something so much political comms fails at. Looking good. Agreed. And I just like it that it's really cozy. So after the election we turned our focus to the next stage of the fight. Making Kathy Hochul tax the rich in New York to fund the affordability agenda we voted for. That includes merch like this. It's union printed and made in the usa so it costs a little more than the kinds of horrible quality sweatshop material basically every right wing product uses, but it's worth it. All proceeds go to funding the campaign to tax the rich. The same way a candidate's merch funds their election campaign, ours funds our policy campaign. It's how we can pay for our amazing designers and filmmakers and run a massive physical ad campaign from New York City to Albany that we know is freaking the governor out. If you want to support the fight and get one, the link is shop.dreamfornyc.com shop.dreamfornyc.com and get more people talking about socialism. We will put a link down below. It's I got this one for free because they were everyone's. They were being nice to us.

[Andrew Arson]

I got one too.

[Matt Binder]

Just saying.

[Andrew Arson]

Me too.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, you did you go viral but no, I didn't because some ex incel intern decided to pump me to the top of the algorithm. This was me yesterday on the FL

[Matt Binder]

looking for trouble.

[Sam Cedar]

You think that shirt was union made?

[Donald Trump]

Who are better?

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh God. Bipartisanship In America. So there we go with that. Matt, what's happening with your shows?

[Matt Binder]

Yeah, I don't know where the rest of our Thursday crew is, but on Left Reckoning Tuesday, we had Maximilian Alvarez on to update us on the East Palestine poisoning. And just the decisions made to, you know, for instance, set all that stuff on fire instead of cleaning it up, which was a decision I found out that was taken because it takes a little bit long to clean stuff up. Why clean it up when you can just light it on fire and poison the local community? So check that out. Max is great. And we'll have a Sunday show for our patrons on Sunday and Jacobin show tomorrow at 3 o' clock Eastern Time.

[Emma Vigeland]

Check it out, folks. I also should say I was on a few shows while I was out in la. You can check out my episode of Pod Save America. Also Higher Learning with Rachel, Lindsay and Van Lathan. Got to meet Rachel in person this time. Tell her how cool she was on the Bachelorette. And, you know, also, of course, check out the Situation Room as I mentioned earlier. What's up, Matt Bender? What's happening on your shows?

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Hey, how are you?

[Emma Vigeland]

It's a. It's Met's opening day, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is. Gosh, I can't believe it's almost April now.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Matt Binder]

So Tonight, Leftist Mafia, 8:30pm Eastern Time

[Emma Vigeland]

at YouTube.com mattbinder all right, check it out. And we will have Brandon Sutton at some point, but check out the discourse, all that good stuff. We will see you in the fun half.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, Emma, please.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority report.

[Sam Cedar]

Wait, whoa.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a vacation at Disney World, so. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show.

[Emma Vigeland]

It is Thursday.

[Matt Binder]

I think you need to take a bit for Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

Yes, please.

[Donald Trump]

No, no, no.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna pause you right.

[Sam Cedar]

There we go. What?

[Francesca Fiorentini]

You can't encourage Emma to live like this.

[Sam Cedar]

And I'll tell you why.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

She was offered a tour. Sushi and poker with boys. Tour, sushi and poker with boys. Who was offered a tour.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Sushi and poker with boys. Sushi and poker.

[Emma Vigeland]

Tim's upset.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Twerk sushi and poker with three boys. It was offered with twerk sushi and that's what we called biz. Twerk sushi and poker with the boys.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Twerk sushi and we're going to get demonetized. I just think that what you did to Tim Pool was mean.

[Emma Vigeland]

Free speech.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about him. I think you're responsible.

[Emma Vigeland]

I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Sushi and poker, boys. Oh, my God. Wow. Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered with tour. Yeah, Sushi and poker with the boys. Logic. Twerk. Sushi and poker with the boys. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a kid. Twerk. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Had this debate 7,000 times. A little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a dick. I'm losing my mind.

[Donald Trump]

Some people just don't understand.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

So I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but, like, I absolutely think the US should be colliding me with a wife and kids.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's not what we're talking about here, all right?

[Sam Cedar]

It's not a fun job.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Work. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. Willy Walker. Work. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. That's real thing. That's a real thing. That's offered. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. Offered a tour. That's a real thing. I think he might be blowing it out of proportion. Real thing. That's poker with the boys. Offer. That's a real thing. That's poker. Let's go, Joey. Twerk. Sushi and poker with the boy.

[Sam Cedar]

Take it easy.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Twerk, sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker with the boys. Sushi. You don't have a clue as to what. What's going on. Live YouTube.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sam has tw the weight of the

[Andrew Arson]

world on his shoulders.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Anymore.

[Emma Vigeland]

It was so much easier when the majority report was just you. You're happy.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Let's change the subject. Rangers and Nicks are doing great now.

[Matt Binder]

Shut up.

[Emma Vigeland]

Don't want people saying reckless things on your program.

[Donald Trump]

That's one of the most difficult parts about this show.

[Emma Vigeland]

This is the pro killing podcast.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury the house.

[Emma Vigeland]

Matching left his best trump. Violet.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Twerk. Don't be foolish. And don't tweet at me. And don't the way Emma has cucked all of these people.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's where my heart is. So I wrote my honors thesis about it.

[Donald Trump]

She wrote an honest thesis.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

I guess I should hand the main mic to you now. You are to the right of the Unpause.

[Emma Vigeland]

We already found Israel, dude. Are you against us?

[Francesca Fiorentini]

That's a tougher question I haven't answered. Incredible theme song.

[Emma Vigeland]

I Bumbler.

[Donald Trump]

Emma Vinland.

[Francesca Fiorentini]

Absolutely one of my favorite people, actually. Not just in the game, like, period.