Matt (5:31)

Over half a century.

Sam Seder (5:34)

You know, at one point you got to say enough is enough. Like, what is the, what is the legacy that Chuck Schumer thinks he's going to get?

Matt (5:42)

I would suggest letting Obama's main successes, the Iran deal and Obamacare, die on his watch.

Jay Willis (5:51)

Yep.

Sam Seder (5:52)

Well, I mean, he, he was against the Iran deal. Here is check shim. Let's do this on the floor of the Senate. We will win. Go ahead.

Caller/Guest or Panelist (6:10)

But let me be clear. However this vote turns out, this fight will and must continue. Democrats must fight because of millions of. Millions of families will lose health care coverage. We must fight because children who are dying of cancer will not get health care coverage. We must fight because a senior citizen cannot afford to pay $25,000 a year just for health insurance. We must fight to keep millions from financial ruin. And make no mistake about it, the American people know who is inflicting this health care trauma on them. Donald Trump and the Republicans.

Sam Seder (6:51)

All right, I want to be judicious. I want to be generous here. I don't know if I've heard him say Donald Trump and the Republicans a long time. No maga. None of this. It's actually Donald Trump and the Republicans. Here's the problem with Chuck Schumer. Well, there's multiple problems. The guy is not a leader. He's just simply not. I'm sorry, he's a concierge and he's up there trying to be passionate on the Senate floor and reading. You can't remember that they're cutting kids, cancer treatment, a spending package to be approved, a part of the deal to reopen the government. I mean, come on. He's just sitting here reading off of a document, but trying to make it sound like he's Impassioned senator. You really need to sound impassioned. And then, like, I don't know who this is for anymore. Like, without a doubt. At one time, people would read Axios or Politico and actually, like, we're naive enough to think, like, they're learning something. But this scoop, what was it in Axios or Axios? Axios. Here's the scoop. Schumer privately fought to extend government shutdown. Where do you. Where. I wonder where that scoop came from. This. This reporter probably had to do a lot of digging. Like, wait, my phone's ringing on my table. I gotta find it. Oh, okay. Oh, hello. Chuck Schumer's chief of staff. Oh. Oh, really? Is that right? Here's the story. I mean, this is. This is what we call a beat sweetener. The chief of staff, or whoever it is from Chuck Schumer's office calls the reporter and goes, hey, man, here's the story we got for you. And if you do me a solid on this, I'll hook you up with something in the future. Why it matters. Senate Majority Minority Leader Chuck Schumer publicly battled Republicans over the government shutdown. He was privately cajoling a group of moderates not to fold before November. Democrats are blaming Schumer for not prolonging the shutdown. In reality, it could have been much shorter. Two weeks into the shutdown, a group of moderates told Schumer they were ready to vote to open the government, according to three sources familiar with the conversation. It's unclear if that group was big enough to end the shutdown. In other words, that group was not big enough to end the shutdown. But Schumer persuaded the moderates to hold out at least until the beginning of November, when open enrollment for the Affordable Care act began. The number of arrows in Chuck Schumer's quiver to cajole or convince these moderates, you couldn't. I mean, it's not even. It's not even arrows. There was, like, a cannon in his quiver. All the polling showed Donald Trump at his lowest approval rating during the shutdown. All the polling showed that Republicans were overwhelmingly being blamed for it. All the polling showed. And all the news media showed that people were outraged at the. At the increase in their ACA insurance bills. They were getting blamed for insurance bills across the country and across, like, outside of the ACA because, in part of, like, the big beautiful bill stuff. But nevertheless, Republicans were getting blamed for what they wanted and needed to. And then. And then a week ago, the Democrats had the most electoral success that they have had in any given day for ages. Maybe since 2018, but maybe since before then. They didn't lose a single race. They didn't lose Dog Catcher in New Jersey. I mean, nowhere. At the very beginning of the shutdown, Schumer was put on notice by a group of moderate Democrats. Didn't want to pick the government shutdown fight in the first place. Yes, that was obvious. We could see the contemporaneous reporting. We let them know what we were doing, said Jenner. Said Jeanne Shaheen, who led the bipartisan talks to find a compromise. In fact, you'll recall they did make a deal two weeks ago. Am I the only person who remembers this? They did say, like, okay, we'll do a one year extension. And they got rejected by John Thune. So they go, what was Schumer doing? Where was the value add that Schumer was bringing to this? Asked if he ever felt that Schumer was working against her compromise package, Shaheen declined to comment. I don't really want to get into the private discussions we had. That's because Schumer probably said, I promise you we will. We will cave. I promise you will cave.

Caller/Guest or Panelist (12:36)

What kind of bull is this?

Sam Seder (12:39)

This is. And you can just tell by the way this piece is written by Sunday afternoon. The Democrat Democratic moderates ultimately decided that the cost of continuing the shutdown exceeded the benefits. What were the costs, particularly relative to everything else? The bottom line is the money. People are getting pressure about what was going on with the airlines. Ready? Okay, this is what they said. They extracted a promise from Republican leaders to hold a vote in December on extending the ACA credits. They extracted it, incidentally. What they did not extract was a vote in the House. They only extracted. Yanked it from them. An opportunity to lose a vote in the Senate, not even to hold the vote in the House. So there is 100% chance of this not passing those ACA subsidies. Gone. Not even a vote in the House. Internally, Schumer and most of his caucus argued that the concession wasn't enough. But eight Democrats who caucus with the Democrats broke ranks. What.

Matt (14:05)

What is.

Sam Seder (14:08)

Now, let's be honest. Dick Durbin voted for this. You'll notice they all, all the people who voted are not up for reelection in 2026. Half of them are resigning. I mean, retiring. Maybe not half, but a third. Dick Durbin is Chuck Schumer's best friend in the Senate. Like roommate best friend. Like they were roommates for years and years and years and years. When Dick Durbin votes for something more often than not. He's doing it for Schumer. Schumer couldn't convince his best friend who's retiring. That's quite a cajole.

Caller/Guest or Panelist (15:00)

The heat is on them when they do this.

Sam Seder (15:02)

Yes. So you have a lot of organizations coming out for Schumer's resign. Resignation. He won't do it. He won't do it. But I guarantee you we saw one of his longtime aides leave in the past couple of weeks. My guess is you're going to see over the course of the next three to six months, at least a couple more leave because they know it's over. It's over for Chuck Schumer. It may be 2028. He may be done as the leader in 2027 after the midterms, but it's over for Chuck Schumer and they know it. And Schumer knows. I don't know if Schumer knows it, but his staff knows it. His staff knows it. They're all looking for other jobs right now.

Caller/Guest or Panelist (16:01)

And that is not Kentucky Fried French Fries.

Sam Seder (16:03)

It is not Kentucky Fried French fries. All right, in a moment, we're going to be talking to Michael Blake running for the in the Democratic primary for the 15th district. It's Richie Torres's currently sitting in that seat.

Matt (16:25)

I remember him.

Sam Seder (16:27)

Yeah. You may recall the last time we heard of Richie Torres, he was on the Adam Friedland show. And that was when I think he moved from a guy who very likely may lose his congressional seat from being the future of the Democratic party. There's a quick turnaround. Somebody must have been fired over that interview. Somebody wasn't. Honestly, it's like, I want to do something hip. Get me on something hip. Got a word for a couple of sponsors today. Want to thank One Skin for sponsoring today's episode. Skin needs some extra care this time of year because it's so dry. Cold weather, holidays are fast approaching. Maybe you're getting exhausted. Non stop stress to your face, to your system. That's why both Emma and my sister Julie love this product. They have relied on one skin. She loves the OS 01 face and OS 01i. Oh, yeah, that's the OneSkin O1i and found it invaluable to have daily routine that delivers both powerful skin care. Longevity. My sister says she loves the texture and density of the cream. You just need a tiny bit, she says, to cover your whole face. Julie was looking for more elasticity in her face.

Matt (18:18)

Elasticity.

Sam Seder (18:19)

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Matt (23:02)

I use it for my regular doctor visits and dermatology.

Sam Seder (23:07)

Do you have any like cleared up my eczema.

Matt (23:10)

Really good. I haven't had to use it since.

Sam Seder (23:12)

Well it's not that I'm talking about the, the app.

Matt (23:15)

Well, they found me a doctor that did that.

Sam Seder (23:16)

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Michael Blake (28:29)

It is. In 2020, we made this. This run came a close second. And we're continuing to see that there's more that's needed in the district around cost of living, around affordability and just desperate change. And that's why we're running, because we deserve better in the Bronx.

Sam Seder (28:44)

Let's talk about what we have right now in the Bronx, and that is Congressman Richie Torres.

Matt (28:52)

He.

Sam Seder (28:54)

The Democratic establishment, I have to say, has been trying to push this guy as the future of the Democratic Party. And he seems to only have traction amongst sort of the establishment in some ways. Like, where do you see him falling down the most? And I have to say, also, one of the things that he seems to have been has decided to be his pet project is defending the ongoing genocide in Gaza, or I should say the one that took place that we now, you know, new reporting has shown what the Biden administration knew contemporaneously. What is your sense of all of that in terms of Richie Torres?

Michael Blake (29:41)

I think when you look at what the energy is in New York, I was someone who crossed, endorsed Zoramdani, our mayor elect. Richie Torres refused to endorse me, actually endorsed Andrew Cuomo. When we talk about the energy of how I've helped mobilize Democrats across New York and across the country, Richie Torres has not only attacked the members of the squad, he's called the DSA and Mickey Mouse Party and has literally told people to go F off when he didn't agree with them. There is a new vision of what's happening right now in which people are saying enough is enough and that we're sick and tired of it. And so in the district, say I'm the poorest congressional district in the country, a district where just recently an explosion happened at one of our public housing developments. A district where you have a community in New York City where one out of four people are in poverty and wondering how they're going to pay their bills. A district that we still are wondering what will happen if and when ICE rose up in the Bronx, because we saw what they did in Canal Street. As someone who is a son of Jamaican immigrants, I'm saying very clearly there is a new vision of what we can and deserve to have in this district in the Bronx. And when we think about what's at play, whether it be for healthcare, where I've said we need to have Medicare for All, whether it be on housing, where I said that we need to have an ending of credit scores for housing applications, a guaranteed local median income and expanding out housing income limits, because too often you have to be too poor or rich enough to get access to a home. That we have to cancel student debt. That we have to say very simply that ICE has no damn place in our communities. And that you can say, and I will say as an ordained reverend who has been to Israel twice, who has baptized people in the Jordan river, who has prayed at the Western Wall, that, yes, what Hamas did was inhumane and brutal, but at the same time, a genocide is happening. You can say both at the same time. And when we talk about what is occurring in this party, people are saying, we need something better. You cannot say that. You can watch how Senate Democrats, eight Senate Democrats and caved this past week where they made a decision on a deal that does not guarantee that we will have the Affordable Care act continuing because they wanted to agree with the Republicans. I am not here to agree with Republicans. I'm not here to agree with Richie Torres. I'm here to be with the people. And that is the reason why more than 2 million people have already watched our launch video. It's the reason why we have heard from across the district, people are excited about what we want to do. And we said very clearly, it's, if you know that we deserve better, then my name is Michael Blake and I want to be your congressman for the South Bronx.

Sam Seder (32:14)

Have you, Michael? Have you, you know, over the course of the past two years, have you had constituents come up to you and go like, hey, I just want, you know, I made a mistake. I should have voted for you the first time and didn't. Has there been like a. A sense that Torres has been out there? Sort of. I know he's. I've. Been. It seems, at least from. From here, that he's been a little bit distance from his own district and more out there trying to make him make a name for himself in, you know, the, The. The establishment circles.

Michael Blake (32:57)

Yeah. So the. We've had people who in the last few days, in the last few weeks and last few months would remind me, come up to me and say, we will never forget that in that first race that you were out there feeding people during COVID and giving out ppe and we have a chance to do this right this time. Right. You have folks who are saying very clearly he is not who we thought he was, and we want to do something different. And when people have been saying, yo, you know what, we want to learn more. I've been real clear. Go to our website, go to michaelblakeforcongress.com and see the vision, right? See what we're talking about, see when we talk about for Puerto Rico center your question, the dynamic of self determination. We just came back from Somos. You can't represent the South Bronx and the West Bronx and not talk about puerto Rico and Dr. And Jamaica and the Caribbean where we have said, I stand for self determination, trust in the people. Richie is currently standing on statehood with a Republican leadership that is believing in that. So you have folks who are saying we now see what is happening. We are listening to what is happening. And what is also important to appreciate is that in this congressional district, a district where you had so many attacks happening against Zoron in the election, not only did the mayor elect win the congressional district, he won the assembly district that they kept trying to tell people folks would not support him because he was talking about cost of living, which I'm talking about. Because he's talking about affordability, which is what I'm talking about. And what people are wondering right now is what did you do, Richie, when you had the power, when you were in Congress and Dems had control of everything, what changed? Now when you're there, what is changing? And they can't say that. It's not enough to just say I got funding for your community project. It's not enough to say that he showed up for your event. You have to ask yourself, and is my life changing for the better? And the answer is no. And so you have a lot of folks that have been excited about what we're doing and how we can bring people together of all different communities who are ready to rock. And quite frankly, they're just ready for real. Right? They're just ready for Democrats to be point blank and say, you know what, you may not agree with anything I'm saying, but I'm going to be real with you. I'm going to talk with you, I'm going to listen to you and I'm going to be in this moment. And folks really want to see that we deserve better and we can have better. And that's what I'm presenting and why I'm running for Congress.

Sam Seder (35:21)

Have you, in the wake of Mamdani's win and you were in the Democratic primary for mayor, and I will have to say that I think Andrew Cuomo is probably still a little bit stinging from sitting on the same stage with you at that time. And you know, but I'm sure, I'm sure that he'll find a spa to relax in in Florida to Take care of that. But have you found like they're like give me a sense of like the renewed energy that if you've had a sense of one in the wake of.

Michael Blake (36:05)

Mamdani winning, we got to appreciate when you have an election that had turnout in levels that we haven't seen since the late 60s, when you have a scenario where Zorin exceeded a million votes, when we think about the dynamic of what's happening where young voters and communities of color mobilize in a way that we have not seen, not only does it show you that cost of living and affordability connected, but also if you give them an energy, they gonna connect with you. Right. And you can't ignore and it's not just obviously what happened in New York. You saw that in New Jersey, saw that in Virginia, Obviously with Prop 50, I mean Prop 50 in California had levels where people were show showing up more than they were in presidential races. Like just like folks are ready for something that's different in a very powerful way. And I saw that on the ground and I said throughout the mayoral campaign and to now, why did Zorin and I cross endorse each other in the primary? Because we both were talking about cost of living. Why did we cross endorse each other? Because we're both talking about the issues on the ground. And that's what people want you to hear. They want to hear, they want to see and they want to understand and I do know not believe that that energy is going to continue. Because what we're watching right now is you had incredible energy happen last Tuesday and then you have this foolishness happen this week of caving to the Republicans and people saying enough and they are done. It's the reason why you have people that are flooding the phone lines in Maryland saying we demand that you actually do redistricting right now. It's the reason why there's gonna be a case in early January around redistricting here in New York. Because folks want to understand what are you doing for us and that energy continuing. And what I'm saying to everybody is if you are tired of listening to how Richie Torres has taken stances that are not Democratic and not supportive of the people, then you have a choice. You have a choice. And someone in Michael Blake who not only created the only My Brother's Keep it program that's statewide in the country here in New York, who not only had an effort where minority women owned businesses get access to capital that they're not, who not only can say very clearly that I have Helped people get elected across New York and across the country. But I'm actually going to fight for you when it comes to your groceries and when it comes to you in terms of transportation and that you have someone that's real. That's why we're here. Right now.

Sam Seder (38:30)

We've had about, I think it's now up to four or five congresspeople call for, for Chuck Schumer to step down from his leadership in the wake of this. I wouldn't even call it a deal for the to end the government shutdown. This, the ACA vote is just, is a vote that's going to lose in the Senate. There's not even going to be a vote in the House. There's no way that these subsidies can extend. What's your opinion about both Schumer in terms of his leadership and for that matter, Jeffries?

Michael Blake (39:08)

Look, the Senate and obviously gonna have to make their decision on what they're going to do about Senator Schumer itself. You know, my focus is running and winning this race. Real talk. Let me, I'm gonna make it real personal before I get into the process of it. I was born with a heart murmur, right? I was in NICU for three and a half weeks. You can maybe see it behind me, but behind me further back is a portrait of the Lord's supper that my mama and daddy got for me to watch over me because they were just hoping I would make it as a kid. We have a family that's overcome cancer today being Veterans Day. My oldest brother served this army for 29 years. The notion that a so called deal was agreed upon that wasn't going to protect health care is inhumane, right? People are going to die because what just happened. And sometimes folks don't want to be like that. Real like, like if you are wondering about your bills and you're in a scenario where I'm wondering if I could pay for my groceries or my rent or go to the doctor. We know over and over again what people decide, right? And so I do think there's some real conversation they have to have in the House and Senate about the vision of what's happening here. It's definitely disappointing, right? To that degree. And that's one reason I'm running, right? And it's one reason why I have said very publicly people see it on X. I was like, look, we need Medicare for all, right? It's another reminder of why this next generation is necessary in Congress. And it's not just about having a Democrat. It's about having the right Democrat. And that's what we want to bring to the South Bronx. And that's the reason I want people to join us. What we're doing and making sure that Richie Torres does not get reelected, but that we get elected to Congress and help the people.

Sam Seder (41:07)

Michael, if people from around the country or from, frankly, around New York City want to get involved with your campaign, help how they can. What, where, where should they go?

Michael Blake (41:20)

Michael Blake4congress.com Go to the website, sign up, continue to engage with us, donate, volunteer, all things we need, go follow us on social media. If you see Michael Blake for Congress, you see Blake for the Bronx. We need you to be rocking with us there. And I just want people to appreciate that this is a new day in what's happening in this country. You should be excited, inspired, motivated by the people that are representing you. And I'm giving you a new vision. You do not have to stay with a person like Richie Torres when it comes to representing the people of the south and West Bronx. If you are ready for new change and you believe in the Bronx, I'm asking you to rock with me. My name is Michael Blake. Join us at Michael Blake for Congress.com so we can show that we can actually do this better.

Sam Seder (42:09)

And we should just remind people, I think the election is in third week of June in next year.

Michael Blake (42:15)

Yeah, well, we're waiting on the final day, usually that fourth week, and it'll be a very active election because it's governor, ag, state Senate, state Assembly, comptroller, all in about the same time. And we're going to show people some momentum. And I'm going to give this teaser, I can't say who, but be prepared that a major endorsement is going to happen within the next seven days. Right out the gate. People are going to see that we're for real. People are going to see that there's momentum that is happening here. And if you are ready for change around the country, Democrats, we've been listening to you. If you're ready for change and you want a real Democrat, a real progressive, someone who's going to speak up and fight for you, go to michaelblakeforcongress.com and support us so we can make this happen.

Sam Seder (42:59)

All right, we're going to put a link in the podcast and YouTube description. I may even tweet it out, although Richard Torres has me blocked.

Michael Blake (43:09)

So, I mean, that's exactly why you should tweet it out. Exactly why you should tweet it out. So. So it can happen.

Sam Seder (43:17)

Somebody can. Somebody can retweet it and send it to him. Michael Blake, thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.

Michael Blake (43:27)

Appreciate everything you do, man. You're giving a voice for a lot of people. We're grateful for you.

Sam Seder (43:31)

Thanks for coming on. Well, we'll again, we'll put that link in the podcast and YouTube description. All right, folks, we gotta take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to be talking to Jay Willis, editor in chief of Balls and Strikes on this tariff case. It we are back, Sam Cedar on the Majority Report. It's a pleasure to welcome to the program Jay Willis. He is the editor in chief of Balls and Strikes. Jay, welcome to the program.

Jay Willis (44:43)

Hey, good morning, Sam. Thank you so much for having me.

Sam Seder (44:45)

So we've got this case that was just argued in front of the Supreme Court about the president's authority under the the eeip, the emergency. I can never remember what what it is, but it's me neither. It's fine. It's a, it's an emergency powers that he's he is contending he has to impose tariffs. And we should say Congress also or the House abdicated its responsibility in the passage of the big beautiful bill, I think it was or the continuing resolution the first time around. It was the continuing resolution in March saying we abdicated authority over tariffs until I think it was 2026 to allow them to escape any responsibility for this. Before we get into the specifics of that case, will you remind us of the arguments that were made and how the Supreme Court ruled when Joe Biden tried to exercise emergency powers under the Education act to that supposedly at least we all thought, allowed him to waive or modify loan repayments.

Jay Willis (46:04)

Yeah, I will. And thank you again for having me. And it's it's been wild to sort of read about this case and listen to oral arguments, I guess it was last week and think, wait, weren't we just here? Didn't we just figure out what presidents can and can't do? But you're right, under in 2023, the court decided the case Biden v. Nebraska about Biden's student debt relief plan. And Biden had grounded his plan in a provision of federal law that allows him to, and I'll quote, waiver modify certain legal obligations during national emergencies. Biden's position was that a deadly pandemic that had ground the global economy to a halt probably constituted an emergency such that he could extend partial student debt relief to a cohort excuse me, a cohort of lower income borrowers. But The Supreme Court, and specifically the six conservatives on the Supreme Court said nuh. And they based their opinion on what they call the major questions doctrine. I want to stress that the major questions doctrine is something that the Supreme Court has created. And what it says is basically, if the President is asserting, if the President is asserting that Congress delegated to him some power under federal law, that Congress has to be really clear before giving the President power to do, to do basically anything big, vast economic significance. Is the Court's language stripped of legalese? The Court just says, listen, Biden forgiving student debt relief, too big a deal to be legal. So the question here, can we just.

Sam Seder (47:52)

Stop here for a moment on this?

Jay Willis (47:54)

Sure.

Sam Seder (47:54)

The major questions doctrine, I just want to remind people, is was made up out of whole clothes. I went to law school for a year in 1990 or 91. I can't remember what it was.

Jay Willis (48:06)

Condolences.

Sam Seder (48:07)

Yes, I've recovered. It's. It took a while. I've recovered. But when I went to law school, we were still almost 15 or 20 years away from the concept of the major questions doctrine for even being in existence. Like this is so unripe, as it were. Like this is, and it was made up from whole cloth, this idea of like what? Like there's no limiting principle to, or defining principle as to what major economic implications are or, I mean, none of it. It all just seems to be a, basically like a, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a wild card or get out of free jail card where the, the conservatives just go, we're going to use this now, actually.

Jay Willis (48:56)

And you're right, and that's why it's such a powerful tool in the justices hands and particularly in the conservative justice's hands, because here you have, I mean, again, my view is that COVID 19 is much more, was much more clearly an emergency than Trump saying trade deficits exist or Canada ran an advertisement with Reagan that I didn't like. That hurt my feelings. That's my opinion. But you don't have to agree with me to see that the framework is really similar. You have a president using kind of unclear statutory language and asserting that to implement a major item on his policy agenda. The difference now is that the Court didn't like and didn't support Joe Biden and does like and does support Donald Trump.

Sam Seder (49:47)

Okay. And so now. But they, they have also a dilemma because, and you write about this, that they want to preserve. They, they want to preserve some of this. And so they have to sort of Thread the needle so that they, they can say that. I mean, really, I mean, the long and short of it, in my opinion is they just, there's two things that they want to protect. They want to protect the Fed and they want to protect trade. Everything else they're basically willing to say to Donald Trump, yeah, go, go, have at it. But they've got to be careful in the way that they rule in this case because they don't want to rely too much on the major questions doctrine, according to what you've written. So they're trying to find sort of more technical ways in which they can sort of stop Trump from doing these tariffs, but still sort of reserve the, the, I guess the, the, the pristineness of the Major questions doctrine.

Jay Willis (50:57)

Yeah, I would add that to your list of things that the Court wants to preserve the Fed trade and their own power to strike down future Democratic policies that they don't like. So an oral argument. The liberal justices, you could tell they're like, still pretty annoyed about how the student debt case went down. I'll just give one representative example, Sonia Sotomayor, excuse me, Sonia Sotomayor said to Trump, solicitor General, I don't understand your argument. Like, didn't we just say that the president, you know, can't assert broad statutory powers under made up emergencies and the Solicitor general tried to distinguish, to say, oh, you know, education policy, that's domestic tariffs, that's foreign affairs, that's really, you know, presidential power. And Sotomayor said, okay, so, so Biden could have just said that student debt was a global warming climate change crisis and he could have gotten his way. Now, the answer like, of course not. She's being sarcastic. But the point is that she's showing that there's no real distinction here. The court just didn't like the policy in the student debt case and is a little more friendly to this president, certainly has been since he took office for the second time nine months ago.

Sam Seder (52:13)

And so where are the conservative justices in terms of way they apply it? How are they going to get, how are they going to, like, sort of like, how are they going to be able to serve their two masters of, one, maintaining their sort of like wild card that they get to play, and two, also protecting tariffs.

Jay Willis (52:33)

Well, it is good news that, you know, for once, the conservative justices at oral argument were a little more skeptical of Trump's position than they usually have been. And I think that goes back to your point, which is that the conservative justices do want Trump to have power, do want Republican presidents more generally to have power, but not when it can start interfering with sort of the traditional conservative legal establishment. Wall street types like, they are beholden to that wing of the conservative movement as well. And I think they understand that if a Republican president kicks off a self inflicted recession on their watch, that's bad for the Republican Party's electoral future. But what they need to do then is figure out a way they can dispose of these tariffs or roll back these tariffs without limiting their power in the future. So I'll give two examples. Brett Kavanaugh at oral argument said, look, previous presidents, they've never tried to impose tariffs under this law, ipa. So maybe that just suggests that, you know, there's a common understanding that IIPA doesn't allow presidents to do this sort of. Similarly, Amy Coney Barrett, she said, look, there are other federal laws that explicitly allow presidents to impose tariffs. This law, IPA does not. So maybe we can just resolve it this way. I think the thing to understand here is that the major questions doctrine is not and never was a rule that this court was going to apply evenhandedly. You were never going to get John Roberts up there saying, well, look, I mean, we said student debt relief. That was a major question. So tariffs, this must be a major question too. No, the less they say about the major questions doctrine in the case, the better for them because it preserves the most flexibility for them going forward of rolling back future sort of progressive policies that Democratic, Democratic presidents might try out.

Sam Seder (54:37)

Okay, there's two things there I want to address. One being, and I know you just have a couple minutes left here, but one being sort of like their whole sort of strategic and tactical way in which they're sort of reserving, like they're making decisions without really saying anything about them so that they can't be sort of held to account down the road on some level. I want to get to that in a second. But just those two things that Kavanaugh and Coney Barrett, they're so desperate to, to address this in that matter. Like the idea, it seems to me, I mean, with Coney Barrett, the idea that like emergency doesn't specifically call, but I mean, the nature of an emergency is like we don't know what's going to succeed in that instance. And so you would imagine it's pretty broad what you can do to address an emergency. The real question, it seems to me is is this an emergency? Like, and are they in a position to make an assessment on the facts in the case? Like, would that be a more of like a fact finding? Is there an emergency that would justify an emergency response.

Jay Willis (55:52)

This actually came up at oral argument as well. Like, traditionally, the courts kind of defer to the elected branches as to, you know, determining what an emergency is. But, like, what a coincidence here, that helps their favorite president, you know, that's a point in his favor. And Justice Kagan brought this up at one point when the Solicitor General said, well, look, under the law, presidents, they have to formally declare emergencies, so that will, that will prevent abuses of power going forward. And Kagan said, all this court has done for the last nine months in two dozen straight cases is give Trump what he wants when he asserts emergency powers. All we've done is say, yes, Mr. President, we are not going to second guess your declaration of an emergency here. So, like, you're right, that's not really a constraint on Trump's power. It's more just like kind of a box he has to check going through the motions. But, no, like, the justices aren't going to. They aren't going to weigh in here and say, you know, trade deficits aren't an emergency now, like, they aren't. Anyone who's been alive for the last 50 years while this country has been running trade deficits probably doesn't think that this country has been in a half century straight of economic emergencies. So it's kind of like, if Trump's going to try it, then we move on to the next order question of, well, can we, the conservative justices, figure out a way to keep these tariffs, or can we get rid of them again for the sake of the Republican Party's electoral future?

Sam Seder (57:25)

All right, so let's move to that. The other part, they want to protect the major questions doctrine because the more that they write about how it works, the more it becomes something other than essentially a wild card that they can apply whenever they deem fit because they're not bound by their own restrictions or contours that they've created for the application of that doctrine in the past. And they're doing the same thing in the shadow docket.

Jay Willis (57:57)

Right, right.

Sam Seder (57:58)

Yeah. Walk us through that briefly.

Jay Willis (58:01)

Sure. So, you know, the thesis of what I wrote is that the less the conservative justices say about the Major questions doctrine, the better, because then they don't have to, you know, potentially reconcile what they say in this case with the Major questions doctrine next time they try to assert it. You know, when President J.B. pritzker tries to use executive power in some way that they don't like. Now, there's also a possibility, and this gets like, a little in the weeds of how the court's court works. But it's like a time honored Roberts trick. So I want to bring it up. There's also a possibility that a conservative justice tries to write an opinion that, you know, strikes down or rolls back Trump's tariffs under the major questions doctrine to try to get the liberal justices to sign onto it to endorse the major questions doctrine. And this is something that John Roberts in particular loves doing. He's done it in a lot of the court's voting rights cases. He's written sort of narrow technical opinions that a liberal justice or two will sign onto. And then later when he uses that case to, you know, roll back significant chunks of the Voting Rights act, he'll say, well, look, this court's, you know, on a, this court across ideological lines, said this just a couple years ago. So what are my liberal colleagues so upset about? But the point is either way, whether the justices don't say anything about the major questions doctrine or whether the conservatives try and, you know, get the liberals to endorse it, they're not going to do anything in this case that takes away the their future power to interfere with Democratic policies. And that's why you saw the Republican justices spend so much time at oral arguments talking about these very technical off ramps, sort of for getting rid of this case in a way that, you know, that wouldn't cast aspersions on something even like their student debt case from two years ago.

Sam Seder (60:01)

Just another example of how these guys are basically working backwards, it seems to me, from how they want to rule on something and then sort of backfilling it with some type of rationale. Jay Willis, Editor in Chief, Balls and strikes. We'll put a link back to your work in that piece. Really appreciate you coming on, talking to us about it.

Jay Willis (60:24)

Thanks, Jeff, so much for having me. Appreciate you.

Sam Seder (60:26)

All right, folks, that's it for today, at least for the first half of the program. But for those of you who are members, we bring you the fun half. I guess I felt like some music should come in there, like scary music. I don't know, I just, I'm in a mood today where I need a little bit of like, production quality, a little music come in to like a score or something for the show. Don't ask me about that. I'm just a producer. That's it, folks are heading into the fun half. We will take your phone calls. You can be a part of the fun app by going to join the majorityreport.com and when you do, you not Only get the free show free of commercials. You also get the fun half. Also don't forget just coffee. Co op, fair trade coffee, hot chocolate. Use the coupon code. Majority get 10% off crime prime. Also. God, that really makes me laugh. Crime, crime. Total nervous breakdown.

Matt (61:55)

She was cooking.

Sam Seder (61:56)

Totally complete meltdown. Putting the gold in Rhine gold. Yeah.

Michael Blake (62:08)

All right.

Sam Seder (62:09)

Also check out our merch store, folks. We gotta get some new merch in there for the holidays, I think. But we war on Christmas merch. I don't know what we should do maybe. But check it out. Shop majorityreportradio.com also the AM quickie 3 times a week you can get for free in your email box breakdown of the day's news. A couple of bucks a month helps you get a five times a week. So check it out. Corey and Whitney do a great job. And lastly folks, it is that time of year where we put out the call. The clarion call charge. Sorry for best of. We want you to send us an email in the subject line best of and tell us what was your favorite interviews of the year or segments or whatnot. Special bonus if you actually have a time code. If it's a clip or.

Matt (63:22)

Yeah, just a link to. Especially the fun half stuff because I'll put a fun little montage together.

Sam Seder (63:28)

We do. I don't know how many shows. 250 shows a year. Something like that. And so if you say, hey, that time with that guy went on to talk about, you know, economic populism, that's going to be hard for us to find.

Matt (63:49)

I don't remember who we had last week.

Sam Seder (63:51)

Yeah, exactly. I mean the whole point of the Best of Me is like just to remember what we did that year. Definitely putting shirtless Russell Brand in there. What's that? Definitely putting shirtless Russell Brand in there with your. That was. I still haven't recovered from that. Actually. I'm gonna have to have to start like an entirely new regimen of therapy just to get past that.

Matt (64:19)

Polymarket should have bets on how many more episodes Russ is going to appear on. If he's saying like, I'm going to be optimistic about zoron and also not get out of bed for. For this. I don't know how much.

Sam Seder (64:32)

I mean, Brian said that that clip for them did very, very well for them. For them. And I'm like, I would put the odds of Dave Rubin saying to Russell like, hey man, maybe take a shirt off again. Maybe they'll all be shirtless. How awesome would it be if people showed up one day in the majority report we just started and I just lounging in my.

Matt (65:01)

Hey, I think it's not great for like ad revenue though. Don't. Doesn't it don't been shirtless. Doesn't that count against the algorithm?

Sam Seder (65:10)

I've. I get demonetized if I go down below this, this button, we get demonetized immediately. So thank God. Yeah, exactly.

Matt (65:23)

Actual friends.

Sam Seder (65:26)

Actual friends.

Matt (65:26)

Gotta subscribe to that.

Sam Seder (65:29)

What's happening on actual left Reckoning.

Matt (65:32)

It's actually changing times. It's no longer tonight. It's going to be right after the show today at 2:30. Check it out. We'll be playing it out for folks. So you know, we got Catherine Luan talking about the PMC and also Nick Bolan talking about Orphan Wells in Oklahoma. And we respond to the Caving by Schumer a little bit. So yeah, check that out today. And Jacobin show Friday morning at 10am so look over for the Jacobin YouTube page because we'll be there too as well.

Sam Seder (66:04)

Now does it start at 2:30 exactly or what if we, we do. What if we.

Michael Blake (66:08)

2:30?

Sam Seder (66:09)

What if we go to 2:30? What if we Go to 240?

Matt (66:11)

That's fine. Just. We'll just lose audience for majority of poor because everyone's gonna rush right over to.

Sam Seder (66:16)

So you're gonna be on two shows at once on Fridays? No, on Tuesday, 10am Yeah, 10am 10am how long before it's not gonna be live? It's not live at 10am on Fridays.

Matt (66:29)

We're live at 10am On Fridays.

Sam Seder (66:31)

Oh no, never mind. I'm here at 10am So I, I assume the whole thing's the show. Brian hasn't figured it out that it starts when the camera comes.

Matt (66:40)

A little thing called recording in advance.

Sam Seder (66:43)

I don't understand. Brian's having a tough time today. I shouldn't even be here today, honestly. It's true. It's Veterans Day. So I just want you to know we did the show in honor of Brian and I made it clear. I said, you know, don't come in tomorrow. And he refused because of his. What is it? The, the oppositional Defiance. Defiance. Disorder. So refused. Refused orders. Ungovernable. It's impossible around here. Emma took off in. Took off for Veterans Day today. She's ducking my. Thank you for my service. Exactly. Stolen valor, folks. See you in a fun half. Three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months. From now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're gonna look back and go like, wow. What? What is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second. Hold on. Hold on for a second. Emma. Welcome to the program. What is up, everyone? Fun pack. No. Me.

Jay Willis (68:08)

You did it.

Sam Seder (68:09)

Fun hat. Let's go, Brandon.

Michael Blake (68:11)

Let's go, Brandon.

Sam Seder (68:12)

Fun hat. Bradley, you want to say hello?

Michael Blake (68:17)

Sorry to disappoint everyone.

Sam Seder (68:19)

I'm just a random guy. It's all the boys today. Fundamentally false. No. I'm sorry.

Michael Blake (68:23)

Women.

Sam Seder (68:24)

Stop talking for a second and let me finish.

Caller/Guest or Panelist (68:27)

Where is this coming from?

Sam Seder (68:28)

Dude? But. Dude, you want to smoke this? 7A. Yes.

Michael Blake (68:35)

Hi, me. You're safe.

Sam Seder (68:38)

Yes. Is this me? Is it me? It is you.

Michael Blake (68:47)

Is this me?

Sam Seder (68:49)

I think it is you. Who is you? No sound. Every single freaking day. What's on your mind? Sports.

Caller/Guest or Panelist (68:58)

We can discuss sports.

Michael Blake (68:59)

Free markets.

Caller/Guest or Panelist (68:59)

And we can discuss capitalism.

Sam Seder (69:01)

I'm gonna go throw up. Libertarians. They're so stupid. Though common sense says. Of course. Gobbledygook. We nailed him. So what's 79 plus 21? Challenge.

Michael Blake (69:11)

Man, I'm positively quivering.

Sam Seder (69:13)

I believe 96. I want to say 8, 5, 7, 2, 1, 0. 8, 5, 5, 0, 1, 1 half. 3, 8, 9, 11.

Michael Blake (69:20)

For instance.

Sam Seder (69:21)

$3,400. $1900. $5,000 for $3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game. Actually.

Jay Willis (69:29)

You're making me think less.

Sam Seder (69:30)

But let me say this. You can call it satire. Sam goes satire on top of it all. My favorite part about you is just like every day, all day, like everything you do. Without a doubt. Hey, buddy. We see you. All right, folks, folks, folks. It's just the week being weeded out. Obviously. Yeah. Sun's out, guns out. I. I don't know. But you should know.

Jay Willis (70:05)

People just don't.

Matt (70:05)

Like to entertain ideas anymore.

Sam Seder (70:07)

I have a question. Who cares?

Matt (70:11)

Our chat is enabled, folks.

Sam Seder (70:13)

I love it. I do love that. Gotta jump. Gotta be quick. I gotta jump. I'm losing it, bro. Two o'. Clock. We're already late and the guy's being a dick. So screw him. Sent to a gulag. Outrageous. Like, what is wrong with you? Love you.

Michael Blake (70:34)

Bye.

Sam Seder (70:36)

Love you. Bye. Bye.