← The Majority Report with Sam Seder
The Majority Report with Sam Seder
3637 - Trump's Non-Strategy in Iran; The Essential Role of Independent Journalism w/ Amy Goodman
01:08:55
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- [00:01]
A
You know, no one seems to believe me, but Mother's Day is just days away. You can check your calendar. It's May 10th this year.
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B
Paul Revere over here.
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A
Yeah, exactly. I'm the prophet. No, Mother's Day is just a few days away. And let's face it, moms put up with a lot. Long days, sick kids, endless unpaid domestic labor. They deserve a little relief. So what are you going to do? Get them a vacuum. What is wrong with you? Get an appliance for your mom. Get your mom something she'd actually enjoy, like some tasty gummies. Sunset Lake. Saba Day.com has the goods. Now through May 11, you can save 35% on all Saba Day and teh se gummies. When you use the code MOM26 at checkout, I will tell you, starting to lean on those gummies these days. I'm a big tincture person. But when it comes to those 1mg Tah says it is perfect for somebody like I who cannot handle something a little bit more, if you know what I'm saying. Check them out. Your mom's gonna love them. It doesn't matter whether you're shopping for a mom who deals with chronic aches and pains like I happen to do, or someone battling stress, which I also have, or a new mother who just needs a good night's sleep. I'm not a new mom, but I need some sleep. God knows these gummies are the perfect way to show your appreciation. Don't wait. This sale runs through May 11th. That's Monday, May 11th, the day after Mother's Day. Head over to sunsetlakesabade.com use the code MOM26. That's MOM26. MOM26 for 35% off. Now is the time. See their site for terms and conditions. And on Mother's Day, don't forget to tell your mom that I'm the one who told you that Sunday was Mother's Day. Now time for the show the Majority Report with Sam Cedar. It is Tuesday, May 5, 2026. My name is Sam Seder. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, journalist, host of Democracy now, subject of the new documentary Steal this Story. Please. Amy Goodman will be joining us. Also on the program today, US claims ceasefire holds as US and Iran exchange fire in the Strait of Hormuz. It's primary day in Indiana and Ohio Supreme Court allows Louisiana to bypass the Normal certification waiting period on the Voting Rights act ruling so the state can begin to unwind racial gerrymander protections. UAW to hold strike authorization vote at Stellantis Ram plant. The VA is investigating four employees for speaking to the press in the wake of the Alex Preddy killing. The Department of Education investigates Smith College for admitting trans women. And the US Kills two more boaters in boats in the Caribbean. Florida adopts a new gerrymandered congressional map, adding four congressional seats to Republicans facing an immediate lawsuit. Speaking of lawsuits, the Department of Justice to drop its case against Agristats. That's a huge meat price fixing case dropped just before it goes to trial. Supposedly gonna settle. And lastly, Rudy Giuliani still not dead. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, News Day Tuesday, Newsday Tuesday. But you know, the reason why I hesitated after I read the date is I also realized Cinco de Mayo.
- [04:57]
C
Oh, party time.
- [05:03]
A
Okay. I didn't bring mean to bring everybody down, but I mean, that just struck me.
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C
No, I don't know.
- [05:12]
A
Something. I don't know.
- [05:13]
C
No, I don't know.
- [05:14]
A
Relationship with Cinco de Mayo.
- [05:15]
C
No, I don't know what to say about it. I just, I don't, I don't have anything to say about Cinco de Mallo. So I just, I'm sitting here.
- [05:24]
A
Okay. All right, great. Well, let's have some fun, folks, shall we? Yeah. The,
- [05:33]
C
our chemistry is just phenomenal.
- [05:35]
A
Yes, it's going really well. There has been exchange of fire in the Strait of Hormuz. The US Ran a boat through it, supposedly very difficult obviously, to get actual information. Iran supposedly struck the uae. It is unclear what the US Strategy has been from really day one, once Israel had assassinated the top leaders of Iran. It's clear now that the US Was under the impression that the country would topple and there would be some type of revolution that would usher in a strongman dictator shah. None of that seemed to happen. And since then, the United States has been floundering around, spending billions upon billions upon billions of dollars on a daily basis. They have suffered major attacks at their bases in the region, U.S. military bases. They have hidden that fact from the American people, reported only over the past couple of days. And here's Pete Hegseth back on the podium trying to tell the rest of us, who are total idiots, that the US Has a secret strategy and you just can't figure it out.
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D
Alexandra Ingersoll, One American News do you assess, Mr. Secretary? Do you assess what's left of this small boat fleet to be a significant threat or a nuisance to be managed. And then secondly, what is your message
- [07:30]
C
to critics who say that the US
- [07:32]
D
doesn't have a strategy in this mission?
- [07:34]
E
Well, any threat needs to be taken seriously. And just like those six attack boats that the chairman mentioned were taken seriously and dealt with before there were any real threat to the American military vessels that they were approaching, and that is small craft like that are all that Iran has left. Their ability to get close with a destroyer of the capabilities that we have is limited. But we're going to take it very seriously and kinetically quickly. We're not going to allow a threat to gather. And I can tell you even from just this morning, the strategy remains laser focused. In fact, what I think you see from Project Freedom is that we're not allowing ourselves to get distracted. This is a separate and distinct effort, temporary in nature, that we plan to hand over to the world. The world has expressed a desire to be a part of this. And as is often the case for
- [08:26]
A
a second, it's getting so deep into ridiculousness, I keep waiting like, okay, well, Noah just addressed that point, just outside point. So just so you understand what he's saying here and we'll get back to the degradation of Iran's capabilities in a moment. What he's saying here is that we as a, that the military mission is laser focused, but we're doing a side mission, which is to.
- [08:55]
F
With a side laser, which is a
- [08:58]
A
distinct mission, not interfering with the laser focus that we have over here. There's a side laser and the side laser is something called Project Freedom where we are going to protect boats going through the state of Hormuz, except for we won't be doing it because the Europeans have expressed a desire so eager.
- [09:28]
C
They want to come to my party.
- [09:30]
A
They. Well, they. I'm so they want to, but they have yet to check their calendar.
- [09:35]
C
Yes, they haven't yet.
- [09:37]
A
I would love to come, honestly. It's just with the kids and I have relatives coming into town. It's a month out. I'll say maybe work and we'll see.
- [09:52]
G
I'm coming down.
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A
And
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C
where have I heard Operation Freedom before?
- [09:59]
A
I mean, in everything that we've ever done.
- [10:01]
C
I mean, they need to dust off the Mission Accomplished banner in the, in the basement of the Pentagon so that they can just give Trump some esthetic victory and get us the hell out of this.
- [10:10]
A
But this is. It wouldn't matter if we succeeded in this because this is a side mission. We. Which is not involved in the Laser focus mission that we're engaged in.
- [10:21]
C
Got it.
- [10:22]
A
Just go back a little bit so we can hear. I mean, what's amazing, I have to say in terms of like the Pentagon reporters pool and I don't even know if we have any real reporters in there anymore because of the documents you had to sign. One America is asking the tough questions. Is their capacity not to break out in total laughter like Edie. It just goes to show you that like with a couple of flags, a jacket and a tie and a comb, anybody can look like they know what they're talking about in that context. But what he is saying is absolute Ghibli garbage. I mean like there's nothing.
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C
Yes.
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A
Like this. It's like impossible to sort of like be able to sort of juxtapose what's actually coming out of his mouth and the power that he has gone
- [11:18]
E
a destroyer of. The capabilities that we have is limited. But we're going to take it very seriously and kinetically quickly. We're not going to a threat to gather. And I can tell you even from just this morning, the strategy remains laser focused. In fact, what I think you see from Project Freedom is that we're not allowing ourselves to get distracted.
- [11:39]
A
We're.
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E
This is a separate and distinct effort, temporary in nature, that we plan to hand over to the world. The world has expressed a desire to be a part of this. As is often the case, or maybe almost always the case, American leadership is required. So the President was willing to undertake this. Send commercial ships through, send destroyers in, provide this red, white and blue bubble of protection and encourage the world to step up. Because ultimately this waterway is, as I said, far more crucial to the rest of the world and they need to have the ability to defend it. So I think this is a reflection of a laser focused strategy, actually.
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A
Yeah. So in other words, folks, laser focused. If you are laser focused in getting this specific job, one of the things you can do is if you have other stuff you got to do, just make it a different project. Somebody else like I am lazy. I am laser focused on honey, I am laser focused on finishing this garage. I have a side project that I'm not combining with this so I can retain my laser focus and that is to watch football game on Sunday. Now temporary. Now it's temporary. It's temporary. Another job that I have. But you know, there's a lot of people, I'm doing it for everybody else in the neighborhood and they've expressed interest in getting involved too. So I'm laser focused on this job. I just have a separate job that is in no way commingled with this job, therefore laser focused on that job. And incidentally, what did he say about degrading Iran's capabilities? Could you just pop up this headline from. Oh, yeah, yeah. This is from. I think it was a couple of days ago. Yeah, right. Pentagon intelligence says Iran retains key military capabilities, contradicting Trump claims.
- [13:36]
C
Well, this is actually interesting because we've seen now throughout this war that Trump has a impulse and a propensity to believe the more rosier intelligence assessments that he's getting about Iran's capabilities. And in my conversation with Jeremy Scahill and in just reporting that you've seen, you see that the Israeli assessments of both the damage that has been done to Iran and the weakness of the regime have been something that Trump has has absorbed and has wanted to believe. And that's a big reason why we're in this situation right now. This constant kind of downplaying of their resilience and their capabilities. Benjamin Netanyahu had tried to sell presidents on this. I saw Obama was doing a victory lap in the New Yorker about how Netanyahu gave him the same exact proposal and he turned it down. But Trump's ego is what it is, and he was sold that this could happen.
- [14:34]
A
We should easily. We should also add that supposedly the intel reports are that Iran remains one year away from a nuclear weapon, which is dramatically different than a week away. And based upon past experience, that one year really means three years. And we know that to the extent that they have enriched uranium, that they have stockpiles of all of that, virtually all of it is a function of Donald Trump getting out of the jpcoa.
- [15:11]
C
Yeah. And the fact that I don't know if you saw, but yesterday Iran, like, kind of released their expanded map, which they're looking at in terms of, like, their territorial control of the Strait of Hormuz. And very boldly, it included the coastline of the uae, which is the Gulf state that's most closely associated with the US And Israel at this point. And they're bombing the uae. They're kind of understanding that they can make the Gulf states that are aligned with the US Both necessary for
- [15:45]
A
the
- [15:46]
C
transport of oil, but also because they're doing these corrupt deals with Trump himself, that if they target the UAE specifically, they're able to make the United States feel pain. So the strength of their position is underscored by the fact that they feel like they can say, our control of the Strait, yes, does expand into the UAE and What are you going to do about it at this point? So, like Hegseth can stand up there with his hanky with the American flag on it, which I don't know. Wasn't that supposed to be a desecration?
- [16:17]
B
Does he blow his nose into that?
- [16:19]
C
He blows. He dies after he blows something else. You know, I mean that like it is. We are. Trump keeps trying to project strength, but there is nothing on the ground that indicates that the United States is gaining any advantage here and that military solutions have proved effective whatsoever. Like Iran has taken real hits to their infrastructure. But Iran also, for decades, has shown the capacity to withstand severe economic pain themselves because of the United States sanctions. The west does not have that capacity. They don't have that resilience in that way.
- [16:59]
F
There was a bunch of strikes on the Fujairah Petroleum facility, which the UAE was using to bypass the Strait of Hormuz up here instead. Just a pipeline right here. But of course, this is still Iran and that is still within striking distance.
- [17:17]
C
Right?
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F
None of this stuff works.
- [17:21]
A
Tommy Tomo Flink says, calling her my side chick. So my wife understands that I'm laser focused on her. Tommy Tub Tubby Tomerville says, I believe Pete Hegseth misspoke and meant to say he was Jaeger focused. Meanwhile, Donald Trump was expressing. You know, this happens often. I will say. I will cop to the fact that there are times where I'm stressed, there are times where I am upset about stuff at work or whatever it is. And I will. It comes out in my relationship and dynamic with my children, because that's inevitable. And here I think we see Donald Trump. I don't know why he was exposed to children or children were exposed to him, but here he is in the Oval Office. Clearly you get a sense of what his anxieties are, not necessarily what these kids are. It's weird, but you'll see what I mean.
- [18:35]
G
And I was too bad, but I had to do it. We. We can't let Iran have a nuclear weapon. You might be too young for this. I don't know. They probably know. They probably know better than most people. But you can't let a bunch of lunatics have a nuclear weapon. Or the world would be in trouble. The world would be in trouble. So we just hit records on the Dow. It was supposed to be done in five or six years. Somebody said it couldn't be possible to reach.
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A
Look at the kid. Just like looking around and I really
- [19:05]
F
50 stretching their clothes out.
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G
And then I reached 7,000. And by the way, Just set a new record. The S and P just set a new record. Looking at their sales.
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A
Is there more to this? Is there more to this?
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B
I can get you more if you want.
- [19:21]
A
I definitely do. It is. I mean, look at the little kid in the yellow. She's like, just. I mean, like they're. All. These kids are disassociating. It is really unbelievable. And he's sitting there rambling on about like, I don't want to terrify you, but you all could die. Yes, but the good news is something that you have no idea about is doing good.
- [19:49]
C
You should know about the Dow by now. Yeah, it's. But he also is betraying what he's really concerned about here, which is the economy.
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A
Not even the economy. It's the stock market.
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C
The stock market. But he can only do so much market manipulation for so long when we're dealing with literal physical shortages of commodities. I mean, this is going to continue to get worse because he cannot take the off ramps that have been provided for him and even the good deals that were in front of him. Again, we talked about this with Jeremy Scahill and you picked up on this back at the time, Sam, with the Omanis, who are traditionally the mediators between the US And Iran on the issue of nuclearization, that it seemed like Trump got a better deal than the JCPOA even at the time. And he turned it down because Wyckoff and Kushner. Well, Wyckoff is an idiot and doesn't have the technical knowledge to understand it, and Kushner is apparently calling Benjamin Netanyahu after every frickin meeting. So, like, you know, this is just a clown show over there. In addition to the fact that they have no respect for human life and have underestimated the Iranians in ways that I think you can boil down to racism in many instances.
- [21:05]
A
Yeah. It's hard to know whether Witkoff and Kushner are purposely sabotaging the talks or just doing so by their total ignorance. And at the end of the day, I don't know that it makes a difference. I mean, just the idea that these two would show up with no experts, no understanding that they need experts. I mean, that seems like design, but again, I don't think that we can overestimate the level of incompetence in this administration. This guy who is president, you just see, like, what he's doing in this instance here with the kids. He's out of his mind. That doesn't mean that he's not capable of. Well, he's not capable of tying his shoes. I'm sure that he's not capable of doing that. But it doesn't mean that he's not able to function. It just means that his decision making is completely off the charts with anything that might benefit a broader agenda than just what benefits him. Just play this towards the end there. Yeah.
- [22:18]
G
Trouble. The world would be in trouble. So we just hit records on the Dow. Was supposed to be done in five or six years. Somebody said it couldn't be possible to reach 50 on the Dow. And I reached 50 in the first year.
- [22:32]
A
So there you go.
- [22:33]
G
And then I reached 7,000. And by the way, just set a new record. The S and P just set a new record. Much higher, 7,500. But they said even harder than 50 on the Dow is getting to 7,000 on the S and P. We did that by the end of the first year. All before the end of the first year, Gary. So think of that. They said we couldn't do it in four years and we did it at the end of the first year. And then. You ever have this? And then I said, I called all my people and I said, we just said every record in the book.
- [23:03]
A
The economy is going great, positive for a second. Don't take it down. He's like talking to the kids. I know he's complaining to the kids.
- [23:13]
F
And every one of them is looking in a different direction.
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C
Wow, I'm shocked. I gotta say, that Donald Trump, associate of Jeffrey Epstein, would be giving special attention to children in a room full of adults.
- [23:24]
G
Nobody else ended, ever ended a war. And the person that won the Nobel Prize, Maria, she's a good person. She said, I don't deserve this. This deserves President Trump. There's never been a man that deserves a Nobel Prize. He ended eight wars, including India, Pakistan, which would have been a nuclear war. Eight of them.
- [23:41]
A
Pause it. And if you've had, if you've ever had a grandparent with dementia, you understand what these kids are feeling right now. Like, it's just like, what?
- [23:52]
C
Well, you understand here, stand. What? Like, I guess that's Linda McMahon back there. And RFK. How many times do you think they've heard him say this exact same thing about the dao, Right?
- [24:03]
A
But now he's. He's somehow pivoted to the Nobel Peace Prize. Is that syndicard from Venezuela? Who?
- [24:13]
B
Noah Syndergaard, Former, like Mets.
- [24:15]
C
Oh, my God. That is Noah Syndergaard.
- [24:17]
A
Yeah, I just keep in the back left there, Thor.
- [24:23]
G
I called everybody in, Gary, and I said, you know what? We just broke every record. And now we're going to take a hit because we have to make a journey down to Iran to take the nuclear weapon. They would have had a nuclear weapon.
- [24:37]
A
Okay, well, honestly, this is just too insane and too upsetting to see. In a moment we're going to be talking to Amy Goodman, journalist, host of Democracy now and subject to the new democracy new documentary steal this story, please. First couple words from our sponsors. You know, it's tough finding a doctor. Finding not just finding a doctor, but finding a doctor that you like that has the sort of like qualities that you look for in a doctor. Not everybody has the same qualities they're looking for. Some people want, you know, a good bedside manner. Some people want, I don't know, somebody who's, you know, all business. But it is easy to find the doctor that you want, that maybe that takes your health insurance that has certain hours available for appointments through Zocdoc. Zocdoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 150,000 providers all across 50 states. Doesn't matter whether you're looking for a dermatologist or a dentist or primary care or eye care or one of the 200 plus specialties you can find on Zocdoc. You can easily search by specialty or symptom to build the care team that is right for you. You want to see a doctor in person, Great, you can do that. You want to see a doctor over like Zoom or Telehealth, you can do that too. When you're ready, you can see their real time availability. Click to book instantly. No phone tag, no waiting around, no negotiating with the person at the front desk. Appointments made through Zocdoc happen fast, typically within 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even score the same day appointments. And remember, Zocdoc is free. When I was out of town, have dental emergency. Found a great dentist through Zocdoc.
- [26:42]
C
Emma found my dentist through Zocdoc.
- [26:45]
A
I have family members who found therapists through Zocdoc. Want to thank Zocdoc for sponsoring today's episode. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments. Go to zocdoc.com majority and find and book instantly a doctor you love today. That's z O C Doc.com Majority Zocdoc.com Majority Thanks Zocdoc for sponsoring this message. Go check it out. We'll have the info in the YouTube and podcast description and at Majority FM. Go check it out. Today the best time to find a doctor before you need one. Also, I have reminded you again, maybe for the first time you've heard this, but Mother's Day is only five days away. Did you screw up and you didn't get a present for your mom? Well, you're welcome. I'm saying you're welcome in advance of you saying thank you because I've got the best gift for that for your mom. It is aura frame. It is a digital frame. It is like giving your mom a Mother's Day gift every day of the year. She wants to see pictures of you. She wants to see pictures of your kids, of your sisters, your brothers, your significant other, your dog, your cat, whatever it is. Or you can do what Brian does for his dad, which is to send passive aggressive pictures that are, you know, both. Like you sent pictures of you with mom, Donnie.
- [28:16]
B
Yeah, I'm thinking about Obama's inauguration photo, his first one. Probably upload that later today.
- [28:21]
A
This crowd size. Yeah, yeah. But for those of you who don't want to torment your, your parents or your mom, Aura is still great. You do it all from an app. You can give it the app to your brothers and sisters, your cousins or whatever. Everybody can upload to the same frame. It is fantastic. I had, I had gotten my mom one before she passed. She loved it. Got my girlfriend's parents one. They loved it so much they ended up buying a frame for everybody in their family named number one by wirecutter. You can save on the gifts mom love by visiting auraframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get 25 bucks off their best selling carver matte frame with the code Majority. That's a U R A frames.com promo code majority. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and condition. Conditions apply. Put that info in the podcast and YouTube description. Quick Break and we'll be back with Amy Goodman. We are back. Sam Cedar, Emma Vigland on the Majority Report. It is a real honor to welcome back to the program. I know, I know. Like at least in in some of the iterations of this show. Journalist, host of Democracy now, subject of the new documentary Steal the Story. Please. Amy Goodman. Amy, such an honor to have you here.
- [31:28]
D
It's great to be with you, Sam and Emma. I'm so honored myself.
- [31:34]
A
Let's just start now. I know obviously you were the subject of the documentary. Did not make the documentary. The documentary was made by Oscar nominated filmmakers Carl Diehl. And Tia Lesson. But the title of the documentary is both a reference to an Abbie Hoffman book, I believe, but also sort of like the, I don't know, the central thesis of, like, your work in many respects. We just talk about that because, you know, the. And we'll talk more a little bit about the documentary as well, but speak to that.
- [32:18]
D
Well, it's really our motto. Right. I think an exclusive is a failure. If we're the only ones telling the story. What counts is that it's shared in the world. Steal this story, please, Please. And whether we're talking about the standoff at Standing Rock in North Dakota, I thought when we went to cover this epic struggle that we'd be elbowing our way to the front with all the media there, because this was a big moment when Trump was running against Hillary Clinton. But the network reporters were not even asking them about climate change and the debates, and we were the only ones there. So when the indigenous people took on the Dakota Access pipeline, we videoed, videoed the dogs that were unleashed on the water protectors, their nose and mouth covered in blood, and we posted it online, and suddenly the media did pick it up, and it was broadcast around the world, or most recently in Minneapolis. Al Ya Rahman. She is a young woman who was driving her car to the doctor, which she did all the time. And she's disabled. She's autistic. And she was stopped by immigration agents. They ripped her out of the car as she was shouting, I'm disabled. I'm disabled, has a cane. And they said, too effing late. But they use the full word like the President of the United States does. And they ripped her out. They really hurt her, her shoulders, her tendons. They sent her off to the Whipple Detention Center. When she got out, we had her on because, you know, our motto is to go to where the silence is. And it's often not silent, it's raucous, it's rowdy. It just doesn't hit the corporate media radar screen. We had her on the show, and she talked about what happened. And then Ilhan Omar, the Somali refugee congresswoman, the only one in the US Congress who Trump calls garbage. I mean, he calls a whole Somali community garbage. In Minneapolis, she invited Alia to the State of the Union, and Alia was still ailing. But this was so important, she felt, to go. So she goes to the State of Union. When I heard that, I said, okay, we have to have you on again the day after. And she was in the galley next to, you know, all the congressmen invite people. So she was between a mayor, a guest of someone and a police chief. And as all the Republicans were standing up, sitting down, cheering, standing up, sitting down, cheering. The longest speech ever, right, that President Trump gave. And if it was a Democrat, it would have been the same, just the other party. When he started denigrating the people of Minneapolis, she stood up in silent witness and she was dragged out again. And she was arrested and she went to jail and we'd already invited her on, not knowing this stuff. She came on the show the next day, she said, I'm wearing the same clothes I wore to the State of the Union, cuz I was just released from jail. And she told her story for the second time, not only in Minneapolis, but in the US Congress. What happened to her? And then the New York Times, Washington Post, the networks all picked it up because she is telling her own story. You know, Sam and Emma, I'm so sick of the pundits on all the networks who know so little about so much explaining the world to us and getting it so wrong that when you have an authentic voice, people care. And so everyone picked it up. This is so important to understand what is actually happening to real people. That might be your cousin, your aunt, your uncle, you know, that's what we do. And we say, steal this story, please.
- [36:16]
C
Well, when you say might be your cousin, might be your uncle, I mean, what democracy now is so essential in doing is elevating voices who are often demonized or stereotyped, and often as a way in particular to manufacture consent for continued war. From the issue of Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people, to your current coverage of that, to really more the beginning of your career where you went to East Timor, which is covered in the documentary. That's a consistent theme here. And I'd love if you could talk about your experience there in 1991 when you were covering the Indonesian occupation of East Timor, where over a 24, 25 year period, a third of the population was slaughtered. You just ascribe in the documentary seeing a little boy explode behind you from gunfire. You and your colleague were beaten at the time and you had to bury the videotapes from the recordings that you got of this massacre in a mass grave and had to retrieve them later. I mean, just talk about that experience.
- [37:29]
D
Well, this was 1991. Indonesia invaded East Timor in 1975 and commenced one of the great genocides of the late 20th century. December 7, 1975, Richard Nixon and Secretary of State Henry Kitnot Kissinger. Yes, Ford And Kissinger went to Indonesia, met with the long reigning dictator, Suharto. They gave the go ahead for the invasion, they flew out to meet with Marcos. And Indonesia invaded by land, by air and by sea. East Timor. And over the next 17 years there was not a mention of East Timor on NBC, abc, cbs. Now there's more media in the world, but those were the big TV gatekeepers at the time. So this really mattered until November 12, 1991. So we went there. I went with my colleague Ellen Nairn, an award winning journalist who is doing a piece for the New Yorker magazine. And a UN delegation was going to come to East Timor to investigate the human rights situation. A true hell on earth. But we later learned at the behest of the U.S. the delegation didn't come. And so November 12, people were just desperate. They had dropped out of workplaces, their homes. They'd gone into the Catholic churches of the country so they could speak to the delegation. Now they had no protection. When we had first arrived two weeks before, a young man named Sebastio Gomez had been killed on the steps of the church. And so this is the two week commemoration. On this day, they first went to mass in Dilly, the capital of East Timor. There were so many thousands of people. The priests had to hold the communion outside. And then they marched to the cemetery where so many young and old were buried. And we followed them. We were talking to them, saying, why are you risking your life? I was only doing radio at the time, interviewing them. And when we got to the cemetery, the Indonesian soldiers marched up 10 to 12 abreast, holding their USM 16s at the ready position. Alan and I decided to walk to the front of the crowd. We always hid our equipment. I put my tape recorder in my bag and because people would be arrested or disappeared or killed if they were caught talking to journalists. Now I slung my tape recorder over my shoulder. I held up my microphone like a flag. Alan put the camera above his head. We walked to the front of the crowd. We knew they had committed other massacres, but we thought maybe they wouldn't do it in front of Western journalists. They marched up, they swept around the corner past us and without warning, hesitation or provocation, they opened fire on the crowd, gunning people down from right to left. We they surround. A group of them surrounded us. They beat me to the ground. Allen threw himself on top of me to protect me. They took their USM 16s, used them like baseball bats, slammed them against his skull until they fractured it. So we're laying on the ground, Allen's covered in blood. They put the guns to our heads. They're screaming, Australia. They wanted to know if we were from Australia, about 300 miles away. And we knew what that meant. They'd stripped us now of everything. When Indonesia invaded East Timor, there were five Australian journalists with, among other networks, Australian Broadcasting Corporation, abc. And they put them up against a house and they executed them. They never had to pay a price for killing them, we believe, because Indonesian, Indonesia and Australia would later divide up the oil spoils and the Timor gap. Oil is the source of so much pain in the world. So as they stood there with their guns to our heads, we shouted, no, we're from America. America. I threw my passport at them. It says America. And finally they took the guns from our heads. We think because they would have to pay a price for killing us, that they never had to pay for killing the Timorese. Their weapons were from the United States. States. They moved on. We got into a Red Cross jeep that had pulled up. Dozens of Timorese jumped on top of us. To escape this killing field, we got to a hospital. The doctors and nurses started to cry when they saw us. Not because we were in worse shape than the Timorese. The Indonesian military killed more than 270 Timorese on that day. But the doctors and nurses cried because they see us as Americans in two ways, as a sword and the shield. The sword, because all too often our country provides weapons to human rights abusing regimes or uses them themselves, like in Iran, but also as the shield. They see Americans as. We're the only ones who can tell our government not to give those weapons over. And that day they saw that shield bloodied. We were able to get to the airport because we knew we couldn't stop the massacre there. So if we could only get word to the outside world that maybe the killing would stop. At the airport. We got onto the only plane that was leaving that day. We walked out onto the tarmac. The military was there. Alan was just had electric charges going through his body and we had to stop. And I said, I want to stop because we couldn't let. Let them know we were at the massacre site. I said, I just want to take a look at this beautiful country. And we got on the plane. When we got on the plane, the flight attendants gave me a silver bowl of water and said, clean him about Alan, because he was. The blood was now dripping down his neck. We got from East Timor to. To Bali, which is considered paradise, you know, on Earth. It is a part of Indonesia. We got and remember Continental Airlines, we were able to get on that flight, flew to Guam, were able to get word to the outside world, a massacre has taken place. Flew to the United States. When Alan got out of the hospital, he held a news conference of the National Press Club and said it was US weapons that were used in this massacre. And, you know, a nationwide movement grew up, the East Timor Action Network. I'm very sad to say a great activist who is very active in that, John Miller, just recently passed. But in 1999, the people of East Timor, in a UN sponsored referendum, got to vote for their freedom. And as Indonesia burned the country to the outside, burned the country to the ground, East Timor, the Republic of Timor Leste, became one of the newest nations in the world. And it really taught us as we stood there on the day that they celebrated their independence that we have a decision to make every day, every hour of every day, whether we want to represent the sword or the shield.
- [44:54]
A
You know, I, I mean, I remember I was not in this business at that time, but I remember those reports of yours at that time. And I feel like that was also sort of the, the, the real beginning of people to see Henry Kissinger as a war criminal. I mean, that was like. I don't just like, you know, it's hard for me to assess by, you know, that time I had just recently graduated college. But that really seemed to be where people started to examine his giving swear to the green light on all of this.
- [45:39]
D
There was 1973, another September 11, 1970,
- [45:45]
A
yes,
- [45:47]
D
supported, as did Nixon at the time, the, the Allende forces coming to power in Chile. And of course there was Cambodia. But I also want to correct one thing, Emma, when you said we dug the videotape in a fresh grave, that was one other reporter, Max Stahl, who was there for Yorkshire tv. And as we were standing in the crowd when the gunfire commenced, he was in the cemetery and he then dug his videotape into a fresh grave, knowing. And he was taken. But later that night, under the COVID of darkness, he dug it up and he got it out of the country. And that's the videotape you see in Steal this Story, Please was Max's incredibly brave videotape of unbelievably brave people who were standing up to the occupation.
- [46:40]
A
And I can't encourage people to watch the documentary enough because it really, I mean, it does a great job capturing your work, but it also does a great job of capturing the work and really, I think provides an education on both stories that people may not be familiar with, but also that there are stories that they're not familiar with. And so both those dynamics are captured as well as. And it was also great to see Jeremy Scahill that young. But so let's turn from the movie and just sort of, you know, certainly my career in sort of like the don't do exactly what you do. But I'm, you know, somewhere on that spectrum. And much of it, you know, we relied a lot on Democracy now, particularly in the early days, but things have changed. Not necessarily for the better, but in the media landscape, on one end, it seems like hyper concentration, even though back in the early aughts, there was already we had. I think we would say there's only five or seven media companies, which was at that time appalling. Now there's two or three. But there's also been sort of the Internet and at least different perspectives and people through. Whether it's. It was blogs and now sort of substacks and through YouTube and Twitch and Instagram. What's your assessment of all that? Or is it something that you are like, don't spend too much time focusing on because you have a lot of work to do on a daily basis.
- [48:37]
D
I mean, that goes to. Steal the story, please. We don't expect people will just come to us. We go to where people are. So we're on, you know, Instagram, we're on Facebook, we're on TikTok. We're go anywhere people are, because the stories are that important. And, you know, it's absolutely critical that we go to where the silence is. And it is not really quiet there. It's raucous, it's rowdy, People are organizing. It just doesn't hit the corporate media radar screen. And I don't say the mainstream media because I don't think it's mainstream. I really do think that those who care about war and peace, those who care about the climate, the fate of the planet, those who care about inequality, immigrant crackdown, reproductive rights, LGBTQ issues, are not a fringe minority, not even a silent majority, but the silenced majority, silenced by the corporate media, which is why we have to rebuild or build a new media system that is truly independent. I mean, that is critical. I'm traveling the country with the directors Tia Lesson and Carl Dieh, as this film now has its own theatrical release. And I really want to congratulate them because it has done the whole film festival circuit that started in Telluride and won over, what, 15 awards, mainly audience favorite awards, from Santa Barbara to Santa Fe, from Woodstock to St. Louis, Savannah, Georgia to Oslo, the Human International Film Festival. And then one grand jury prize at. And now in the theatrical release. It is just astounding. We were in la. We always support public media where we go, we hold fundraisers. KPFK in Los Angeles, kpfa, the original Pacifica stations. WPFW in Washington, oh, Howard University, PBS. Because we're on 1500 public television and radio stations around the country. Democracy now is. And around the world. And we do Q and A's. After the film, we are headed right now, we're going to be in, going down to Austin, then Minneapolis, then headed to Chicago. I'll be with Juan Gonzalez, who's been co host for 30 years. And then to Milwaukee to the Oriental Theater on Sunday. And people can check the website@stealthestory.org where all the theaters are, where we'll be. But we were in Baltimore at the Charles Theater on Saturday night. And we came up to the theater and there was the Devil Wears Prada too, and Steal the Story. And the place was packed. It's a beautiful theater. Oh, and oh my God, like everyone's gonna be in the Devil's Prada and still the stories can be empty. And I walked in and everyone's saying, oh, we love democracy now. I said, really? And you're going to see the Devil Wears Prada. That's so amazing. I said, what do you mean the Devil Wears Prada? We're going to see Steal the Story. So the lines were for Steal the Story. And I looked up and it said steal the Story. Sold out. But you could still get tickets for the Devil.
- [52:05]
C
I really never thought actually I'd hear you talk about the Devil Wears Prada, Amy. But those words coming out of your mouth, fascinating. Yes, it's fun. It's fun. And we, we, we really, we don't have too much time with you. So I just wanted to make sure. I asked about your experience at the Dakota Access Pipeline here because as I mentioned to you before we brought you on air, this was really like, you know, the first thing I did in this field was I went there for or five times covering the Standing Rock protests. And I just remember some of these tactics. I mean, watching that part of the documentary, you know, the water cannons that were on protesters in frozen temperatures. I mean, the pipeline would buy up every room at the casino. That was the only place you could stay nearby. And we would have to scramble to find rooms because they were buying up all the rooms so journalists could not stay there. And I specifically remember how Enormous. That story was that you covered of the dogs that were stuck on the protesters and attacked them. These were dogs that were hired by private security that the pipeline had hired. And it was that footage that Democracy now got that broke through. And then there was a warrant out for your arrest. So I guess if you could just reflect on that period and the attempt to criminalize your journalism during that time,
- [53:36]
D
I think that these protests were happening that there. We went there Labor Day weekend, we're covering a protest on sacred burial ground of the Standing Rock. Sioux. Girls, women, men, boys are in front of the bulldozers trying to stop them. They weren't supposed to be excavating that holiday weekend. A judge was going to rule in a few days. And because they stood there, the bulldozers pulled back these huge earth crushing machines. And that's when they pulled out the dogs. They brought out the dogs. But even, even though they were bitten, they were gassed, they were the whole thing, they kept moving forward. And finally the bulldozers, the security guards with their dogs were all left. And we had the video. We showed it. There were, in 24 hours, 14 million views on the website. And that's what everyone took a few days later. The judge was going to rule on Friday. On Thursday, I didn't know it, but. Well, I did know that the governor called out the National Guard in preparation for the judge's decision on what he would do with the Standing Rock suit. I didn't know they issued an arrest warrant for me. So Friday we did Democracy Now. And then me and Hermene Shaikh, co host, Democracy now we raced to Toronto for the Toronto International Film Festival. They were showing a film about if Stone, the great muckraking journalist. He taught students, if you can remember two words, remember governments lie. If you can remember three words, remember all governments lie. And they were using, talking about, you know, news organizations in the tradition of I have Stone in the film. So they asked us to do the Q and A. The next day I'm in Toronto and I'm speaking at University of Toronto. And on my phone it says, you're under arrest. That's when I learned. And I went, what is this? Some student must be have hacked my phone. But so it was a North Dakota number. I was very nervous. I mean, I didn't think I would be arrested right there. But since I had to go over the border back to the United States, if you deal with FBI or the border patrol or police, that's when I could get arrested. I needed to beat the arrest Warrant going over the border. So I just looked up without saying anything in my speech and said, could someone call me a cab? And so I raced to the airport. I did make it back to New York, and I found out, in fact, this was true. And I didn't take it personally. I really thought that the North Dakota authorities were sending a message to all journalists, do not come to North Dakota. So we went back to challenge the charges. And as I flew in to North Dakota, to Bismarck, I called my North Dakota lawyer, not that I had one before, And I said to him, well, what's happened? He said, they're dropping the misdemeanor charges. So thank God. He said, they're elevating to felony. I said, what are you talking about? How much time do I have? They said, three days. You have to turn yourself in on Monday. I said, good, we'll cover the protests. And what kind of time do I face? And he said, oh, it's not terrible like a year in jail. I said, I don't know about your life, but a year matters. So on Monday, what was the charge? Yes, it was inciting a riot, I think, or. And trespassing. I said, a one woman riot. Me, first of all, I'm not that funny. So not a one woman riot. But what are we talking about? What we did was capture what was happening on the ground. And if that causes people to rise up, that is not. That is what journalists do, is to capture the image. And we shouldn't have to get a record when we put. When we put something on the record. So my colleague Dennis Moynihan gets a broadcast struck. The show must go. On Monday morning, we did the show from across the street. We were looking at the courthouse, the jail, and the Ten Commandments. In between, I interviewed Dave Archambeau, the 45th chair of the Standing Rock Sioux at the time. I asked him, have you ever been arrested? You said, yes, for Civil Dos Venuses, what happened? Because I was just about to turn myself in. He said, oh, I strip searched. I was put in an orange jumpsuit, and I was jailed. I interviewed Dr. Sarah Jumping Eagle, the pediatrician on the Standing Rock reservation. I said, have you ever been arrested? She said, yes. Same thing happened to her. Strip search, put in an orange jumpsuit and jailed. How much humiliation can a people take? And as the show ended, more and more Native Americans came to show solidarity and perform ceremonies. And then I got a call. I mean, this was on the homepage in the New York Times, Al Jazeera, BBC, Vogue magazine was covering and you can see there is no reason to cover me. But it was getting attention. And a host from North Dakota Public Radio called me who had been there forever and said, no way the judge is going to say, sign off on these charges. It's too much attention, you know, because a journalist was being arrested. So they didn't ultimately sign off on the charges. And I say, I don't like reality tv, but this is the kind when the media shines a spotlight in the right direction. It was not only me, Native Americans who were going to court that day facing felony and misdemeanor charges, they had their charges dropped, too. This is what happens when the media shines the spotlight in the right direction. And that's the kind of media we need, showing the reality of people's lives on the ground.
- [59:30]
A
Amy Goodman, journalist, host of Democracy now, subject of the new documentary Steal this Story. Please. Such a pleasure. Would love to have you back soon. So much to talk to you about, but thank you so much for coming on.
- [59:44]
C
Thank you.
- [59:44]
D
Thank you, Sam. Thank you, Emma. It's great to be with you all. And I catch that Steal the Story, please. It's really an incredible documentary. And anyone who shows up at a theater, you open the door to the next theater because they all look at the theaters before and they say, well, if they're, if they're selling out more than still more than the Devil Wears Prada, maybe we should open our theaters to them, too. And we want to get out. The word is so critical now, when President Trump calls the media the enemy of the people, that we show a model of independent media that's based on the support of listeners, viewers and readers. That's truly independent.
- [60:30]
A
Amy Goodman, thanks so much. Again, we will put links to the. To the film at. In our podcast and YouTube description and @Majority FM. Thanks again, Amy.
- [60:39]
D
Thank you.
- [60:41]
A
All right, folks, that's it for us today in terms of the free show. Just a reminder, it's your support that makes this show possible. You can become a member@jointhemajorityreport.com when you do, you know, only get the free show free of commercials, but you also get the fun half, and you can. I am us. The film really is great.
- [61:04]
C
She says that she's not funny. She. She. That. First of all, that one woman riot joke was funny, and she's funny in the documentary as well.
- [61:11]
F
I just wanted to point out that in the break, she recognized me by name, even though it's not up there. So I feel fairly happy about that.
- [61:19]
A
Ah, you really stridin around like a peacock. Not in the.
- [61:22]
B
She can't see it in the ping thing.
- [61:24]
F
Oh, damn. I thought it was literally a hangover. Okay, well, anyway, she knew me, but
- [61:28]
C
I'm glad you pointed out, by the
- [61:30]
B
way, I did that innocently. I should not have said that. I could have let you feel like she recognized you.
- [61:36]
A
Yeah, that was mean.
- [61:37]
F
She did say hi.
- [61:38]
A
Brian was pissed because she didn't say nothing to Brian.
- [61:41]
F
She didn't say hi to me.
- [61:42]
B
Yeah, well, if she recognized me, it would be from our humiliating exchange we had at the IFC center, where I failed miserably with trying to bond with her.
- [61:53]
A
Oh, that's why there was a Frost. Yeah, exactly. There's the guy who pretended he saw the movie.
- [62:01]
B
Evan and I have both seen Amy get arrested, which is really funny.
- [62:04]
C
Oh, yes, I guess that's true. No, I wasn't there for that. But I wasn't. No, no, we came. I think that story, though, caused us to fly back in after that had happened. We went back to. It's all. You know, it was a little while ago and I forget exactly. But we weren't there for that. Now.
- [62:23]
A
Yeah, also just coffee. Co op, fair trade coffee, hot chocolate. Use the coupon code. Majority get 10% off co op coffee.
- [62:34]
C
I will just quickly say that there are a few people that we can interview that make me, like, almost slightly emotional because of how cool it is that I get to talk to them. I mean, she's up there. She's up there. It was like Naomi Klein getting the interview. Her for the first time was a big deal. And then Amy Goodman.
- [62:50]
B
So Amy Goodman and Air America were pretty important to me when I was in the military.
- [62:55]
A
I mean, we.
- [62:58]
B
Not your show, Amy, not so much.
- [63:01]
A
But Democracy now was really a. In many ways, like, a bit of a rudder for us in. When we first started out, Jeanine and I had no idea what we were doing. And much of, like, what we did, we tried to sort of, in many respects, emulate. Obviously not the same thing, but as a rudder, it certainly was very, very influential on us both. Also, Matt, apparently you scored a huge get this week, too. Yeah.
- [63:41]
F
Emma is going to be on Left Reckoning right after the show today. We talk about Daily Wire layoffs. Interesting stuff. Curry clip. I mean, it's really. You guys. Sam and Brian would have been invited to, but we decided to keep it to the people whose basketball teams win their series.
- [63:58]
A
Wow. What? Oh, basketball, basketball, basketball. Okay. Yeah, no, I know what you're talking about. Right.
- [64:05]
B
Basketball happening right now.
- [64:06]
F
It is actually it's pretty amazing.
- [64:08]
A
Still going on the season, really.
- [64:11]
F
It's actually just heating up for a lot of the contending teams.
- [64:15]
B
I deserve this for raining on your Amy Goodman parade,
- [64:20]
A
but, yeah, I don't.
- [64:22]
F
That is coming up in just about 100 minutes over on the Left Reckoning YouTube channel. Go check that out and follow me on Instagram at Matlic. I am closing in. Fast approaching 10,000 followers.
- [64:36]
A
Oh, me too. I actually have no idea what my followers are. You know, I feel like I did. I think I did the other day.
- [64:44]
C
You think you did?
- [64:46]
A
Yes.
- [64:47]
B
You think you did what Post.
- [64:49]
A
I think.
- [64:49]
B
Oh, you posted.
- [64:50]
A
I'm not 100% sure, but let's make
- [64:53]
B
sure you know what posting is so you don't make a huge mistake.
- [64:55]
A
I know that I, like, redid something that somebody re posted something. Yeah, okay.
- [65:01]
C
Wow.
- [65:02]
A
I read Brian's supposed to been. Brian was supposed to teach me how to use Instagram like, literally four months ago.
- [65:09]
B
It doesn't help that you bolt out of here like you're in starting blocks.
- [65:13]
A
You. You're supposed to be on top of it. You've really dropped the ball.
- [65:16]
B
What am I supposed to show up at your door?
- [65:18]
A
I mean, look, you're supposed to do
- [65:19]
F
a walk and talk with him as he's leaving the building.
- [65:21]
A
We bring on Amy Goodman to inspire you. Did you see the way that she chased down some of those people in the film?
- [65:29]
B
Yeah, I chased her down for this interview.
- [65:35]
A
See you in the fun half. Three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months from now. And I don't know if it's necessarily going to be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're gonna look back and go like, wow. What? What is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second. Hold on. Hold on for a second. Emma. Welcome to the program. What is up, everyone? Fun pack. No, Mickey, you did it. Fun path.
- [66:22]
C
Let's go, Brandon.
- [66:23]
G
Let's go, Brandon.
- [66:27]
A
Bradley, you want to say hello? Sorry to disappoint everyone. I'm just a random guy. It's all the boys today.
- [66:33]
D
Fundamentally false. No.
- [66:34]
C
I'm sorry. Women.
- [66:35]
A
Stop talking for a second.
- [66:37]
C
Let me finish. Where is this coming from, dude?
- [66:39]
G
But.
- [66:40]
A
Dude, you want to smoke this? 7A.
- [66:44]
C
Yes.
- [66:47]
A
Hi, Mickey. You. Yes.
- [66:53]
G
Is this me?
- [66:54]
D
Is it me?
- [66:55]
A
It is you. Is this me? Oh, Oliver's me. I think it is you who is,
- [67:02]
F
you
- [67:04]
A
know, sound every single freaking day. What's on your mind? We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism. I'm gonna go snow white. Libertarians. They're so stupid. Though common sense says of course.
- [67:18]
C
Gobbledygook.
- [67:19]
A
We nailed him.
- [67:20]
C
So what's 79 plus 21?
- [67:22]
A
Challenge. Man, I'm positively quivering. I believe 96. I want to say. 8, 5, 7, 2, 1, 0, 35, 5, 0, 1, 1 half. 3, 8, 9, 11.
- [67:32]
E
For instance.
- [67:32]
C
3, $400. 1900.
- [67:35]
A
5, 4, $3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game, actually. You're making me think less, but let me say this. You call it satire.
- [67:46]
C
Sam goes satire on top of it all.
- [67:49]
D
My favorite part about you is just like every day, all day, like, everything you do.
- [67:53]
A
Without a doubt. Hey, buddy. We see you. All right, folks from folks, folks.
- [68:04]
C
It's just the week being weeded out. Obviously.
- [68:07]
B
Yeah.
- [68:07]
A
Sun's out, guns out. I. I don't know.
- [68:13]
D
But you should know,
- [68:16]
A
people just don't
- [68:17]
F
like to entertain ideas anymore.
- [68:18]
A
I have a question. Who cares?
- [68:22]
F
Our chat is enabled, folks.
- [68:24]
A
I love it.
- [68:25]
C
I do love that.
- [68:28]
A
Gotta jump. Gotta be quick. I gotta jump. I'm losing it, bro. Two o', clock, we're already late, and the guy's being a dick. So screw him. Sent to a gulag.
- [68:41]
C
Outrageous.
- [68:42]
A
Like, what is wrong with you? Love you. Bye.
- [68:47]
G
Love you.
- [68:49]
E
Bye.
- [68:49]
A
Bye.