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3649 - China's Rise; Democratic Primaries Heat Up w/ Jostein Hauge, Melat Kiros, Matt Bernstein
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Donald Trump
The Majority Rapport with Sam Cedar.
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Emma Vigland
The destiny of America is always safer
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Joe Biden
in the hands of the people than in the conference rooms of any elite.
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Emma Vigland
They are unanimous in their hate for me and I welcome their hatred.
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Joe Biden
We must guard against the acquisition of
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Donald Trump
unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought by
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Emma Vigland
the military industrial complex.
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Donald Trump
The Majority Report with Sam Cedar.
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Sam Cedar
And I get the feeling you've been cheated.
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Emma Vigland
It is Thursday, May 21, 2026. My name is Emma Vigland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today packed show, folks, we've got Dr. Yossin Haga back with us to reflect on the US China summit from last week. And later in the show, Milat Kiros, candidate for Colorado's 1st congressional district, joins us again. And as an extra special treat, my friend Matt Bernstein of A Bit Fruity will be with us to talk about our interview with Mallory McMorrow. Just a little bit of it. Reflecting on that. Also on the program, Iran is reviewing the US Ceasefire proposal, but Axio says Trump and Netanyahu had a very tense call. Where have we heard that before? Welcome back, Joe Biden. Meanwhile, Israel is escalating bombing in both Gaza and Lebanon, including killing over a dozen in Lebanon earlier this week after a federal judge issued an injunction, the White House backs down, dropping sanctions against UN Special rapporteur on Palestine, Francesca Albanese. Democrats say they have the votes on the War powers Resolution and they're maybe they're done with the rotating villain strategy. Golden says so. But we'll see Senate Republicans, the ones who won't be back in power anymore, turn on Trump courageously on the ballroom funding and the weaponization slush fund. So that DNC autopsy was finally released and in nearly 200 pages, the words Israel, Palestine and Gaz were not mentioned once.
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Brian
Competent party.
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Emma Vigland
Yep. What a coincidence. After a tobacco company donated $5 million to a Trump super PAC, the White House rolled back vape regulations. One week later, actually less than one week later, Minnesota becomes the first state in the country to ban prediction markets. Good job, Tim Walls and Democratic Party there. Shocker. Trump's cuts to foreign aid are making the growing Ebola outbreak worse, experts say. RFK Jr. Fires the experts tasked with determining what preventative care insurers must cover under the aca. The retired Tennessee cop who was jailed for over a month over a Charlie Kirk meme has agreed to an $800,000 settlement. Honestly, it should be more, I don't know. Over a month, Brad Lander leads Dan golden by over 30 points in the new Emerson Poll. The incumbent. And lastly, James Murdoch, the Kendall Roy type buys half of Vox Media and New York Magazine. That's good news for freedom of the press, you know, the son of Rupert Murdoch. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show everybody. We have one Im saying no sound, but I am assuming that's a joke
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Brian
from yesterday, I think.
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Emma Vigland
Oh, that's a hilarious joke.
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Brian
Yeah.
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Emma Vigland
It's so funny.
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Brian
You had to be here for it.
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Emma Vigland
I had to be here for no sound. I, I gotta say don't do that in the future. It's a little less funny to me to scare me about technical difficulties in the middle of headlines. But I'm not going to yell at the audience today because I love you all and I take Thursdays to suck up to you just as a part of my strategy with the slow rolling coup that we are laying the groundwork for here at the Majority Report. Hello, Matt. Hello, Brian. Hello. Beautiful audience that I never get upset at. We have a lot to get to today. I want to make sure that we had my dear friend Matt Bernstein on to reflect on the McMorrow interview that we did. People should go check it out if they haven't already. But we already had some great guests. So we're, we're making sure that we make this show as packed as possible. I don't know, I'm emphasizing that I should probably just get into the news so that we don't waste any more time. So radio though, you got a pack show? Yeah, yeah. I mean I'm just. Stay tuned, folks. So the negotiations with Iran continue. Iran says they're reviewing the US Proposal. The US has effectively kind of held off on resuming bombing Iran because Iran has so effectively themselves use their geographic leverage over the Strait of Hormuz and have been very successful at making the west feel economic pain for this and the rest of the world. In many ways, Trump uses his social media to threaten bombing and violence. But no one believes the paper tiger anymore. The markets don't believe the paper. The Cheetah. Get it? Cheeto. Anyway,
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Brian
packed show, everybody.
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Emma Vigland
Okay. Iran, though does say that like over 30 ships have passed through the Strait of Hormuz as of this morning. And this comes on the heel of the U.S. china, some summit as well. It appears that Iran is charging tolls, which is objectively a strategic defeat for the United States and Trump because the Israel lobby is more focused on this part, is fixated on the nuclear weapon piece. Now, Iran can concede things as it relates to uranium enrichment, I think, because they have so effectively used the Strait of Hormuz to defend themselves and the economic leverage that they have over the rest of the world. But Israel is constantly moving the goalposts about uranium enrichment. And much of the lobbying effort that defeated the JCPOA and Trump gladly undid it because Obama was the one that negotiated it, was about lying about Iran's level of uranium enrichment. And that continues to this very day as a way to keep the United States embroiled in this criminal war in Iran. So there's apparently a schism here. The new Ayatollah doesn't want to send the Iranian abroad to be warehoused elsewhere. Perhaps some of the more moderate factions in Iran have a different opinion. But Trump is upset about it. He doesn't like dealing with the new Ayatollah because it reminds him that, like, you can say it was regime change as many times as you want, but it's the exact same regime, just not the old guy that was in charge of it before. But the bad news, too, is that Israel is continuing to bomb Lebanon and Gaza amid these negotiations. The genocide in Gaza is ongoing. That means, in my view, at least from watching from the outside, that the US And Israel have gotten Iran to effectively kind of soften their demands as it relates to the so called axis of resistance, with Hezbollah included and Hamas as a part of it as well. Israel is trying to escalate their bombing campaigns in both Gaza and Lebanon as a way to undercut these negotiations. And as I mentioned in headlines, Axios like we're in Biden. Biden's term once again says Trump and Netanyahu had a very tense call and the Israelis were really upset. Oh, my gosh. Who's falling for Barack Ravid's Kabuki theater anymore? I'm not sure, because at the very least here, Trump kind of just says what's on his mind about how he feels about Netanyahu in particular and how he feels about Israel. It seems like Israel has captured his heart.
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Joe Biden
What did you said to Prime Minister
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Emma Vigland
Netanyahu about Iran and how long to hold off on strike?
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Donald Trump
Fine. He'll do whatever I want him to do. He's very, very good man. He'll do whatever I want him to do. And he's a. He's a great guy. To me, he's a great guy. Don't forget he was a wart prime minister and he's not treated right in Israel. In my opinion. I'm right now at 99% in Israel. I could run for prime minister. So maybe after I do this, I'll go to Israel, run for prime minister. At a poll this morning, I'm 99%, so that's good. But no, he's a wartime prime minister. I just don't think they treat him well. I think they have a president over there that treats him very poorly.
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Joe Biden
You're on the same page with him on Iran.
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Sam Cedar
Yeah.
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Emma Vigland
You know, if we had a competent opposition party, that ad would be played all over the airwaves, given the level of toxicity and hatred that people feel in this country for the state of Israel dragging us into a war with Iran that is materially impacting every single person with these crazy, crazy gas prices. I saw that. There was an analysis released the other day yesterday from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy showing that over just this holiday weekend that's upcoming Memorial Day weekend, Americans will collectively spend $3.5 billion extra on gas because of this war in Iran. So, like, yeah, you can. There are many people that don't care about children getting bombed and a massive genocide with a drastically undercounted death toll in Gaza and Israel's expansionist aims. But damn, do they care if they're paying that much more for gas at the pump and it's impacting their lives. So you have Trump going out there saying how much he loves Netanyahu, which everyone associates Israel with this war now. And there's no amount of capture from Zionists of media organizations and social media companies that is going to change that fact. I sometimes hesitate to emphasize this because I don't necessarily think that this changes things electorally and I don't want to overstate it, but I can't ignore some of these numbers that are coming out with Republicans on this because it's bad for them. And I want to incentivize a fracture in the Republican base. And the more that the Democrats could do this potentially by emphasizing Israel's influence over Trump. Again, I won't hold my breath with leadership, but perhaps there's some competent Democrats that will do this, the better it is for defeating fascism. Scroll just to the bullet point portion here. This is on young Republicans in this New York Times Siena poll. This is perfect. Thank you. On almost every foreign policy question asked in the poll, the 18 to 44 year old segment of the Republican coalition takes a dissenting view. This is the difference between older Republicans and younger ones. And it's really stark. A majority disapprove of Mr. Trump's handling of the war in Iran, and only 40% say he made the right decision in choosing to attack Iran. Only 33% support providing additional economic and military support to Israel, compared with 72% of those 45 and older. I just want to linger on that for a second. 33% of Republicans under the age of 44 support additional military and economic support to Israel, compared with 72% of those older than 45. That is more than double the level of support. It's a ma. It's a massive generation. I mean, for all of the talk in our mainstream press about how it's Jewish people that are buoying support for Israel in this country and how anti Zionism. Anti Zionism would be an electoral liability in more Jewish areas of the country. Are you kidding me here?
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Brian
More evangelical areas.
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Emma Vigland
It's evangelicals and old Republicans that are maintaining support for this genocidal settler colonial project. We covered it yesterday, but the only age group, Ed Gallerian one, was over 65. And did you see his part? His election party that had 12 people at it? I mean, like, let's, let's pass this voter's bedtime. Let's pretend, right, let's pretend that we're living in a democracy, Please. I mean, it's crazy. And with that race, not to go too far afield, but the three most expensive primary races in the country have all been successful. Attempts by the Zionist lobby to take out anti Zionist or voices that were critical of Israel. They. In those three primaries, they were unfortunately successful. So how can we call it a democracy when you can have the Israel lobby take out Massie, Bowman and Bush in the three most expensive primaries in the history of this country? And we act like the voters really matter here, a majority, 54%, say Mr. Trump has been too supportive of Israel, compared with 16% of those 45 and older. So a majority of Republicans under 44. 44 and under. Say Trump's been too supportive of Israel, compared with 16% for older. Nearly 3/4 say America should pay less attention to problems overseas, compared with 40% of Republicans 45 and over. And this part is key. The opposition isn't mostly about young Republicans wanting the party to be less conservative more generally, while younger Republican supporters are less likely to identify as conservative, only 28% said the Republican Party is too far to the right, compared with 16% of those 45 and older. So there you go. The young Republicans, you know, the teenagers that are 38 years old talking about how much they love Hitler in the group chat are the ones that are motivating the critiques critique of Israel here. This is not some, this is so I want to be clear. This is an opportunity to break apart the Republican coalition, but this is not an opportunity to grab those voters. You know, we played that triple Trumper guy who said that he was scammed. And after voting Trump for a third time, the real question is like who are you going to vote for next time? Is it going to be Marco Rubio or is it going to be AOC? Is it going to be J.D. vance? Is it going to be, you know, Chris Van Hollen or whatever? Like we they'll still probably vote in that direction. And it is very terrifying this rise of anti Semitism amongst the young right and the fact that that's motivating it. But as an opportunity to hurt Trump and his coalition, we should not turn our nose up at it is my real assessment.
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Brian
I would make another observation about the what this is going to create among in the minds of young conservatives who don't like that their candidate gets wiped out by Israel money. It is going to create anti Semitism in those people. Those people are fertile ground for it. In fact, that type of Christianity is where anti Semitism came from. And I'll make two observations that I know are true and one that I think is true. The first is that Israel knows that that's happening. And the second is that Israel doesn't care that that's happening in those minds of those people. And the third is because they're doing it intentionally because anti Semitism is a justification for the ethno state of Israel. Bibi Netanyahu, Ben Gavir. They do not care. They do not care one iota if Jews in America are more under threat. In fact, I take that back. They do care. They want it. They want it.
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Emma Vigland
They want that they in the way that Zionists critique, I guess, victims of the Holocaust, the real extreme Zionists in Israel say that they were the weak Jews. If you're a Jewish American that wants to live side by side with other people of other faiths and religions and you're not moving to Israel to fight the good fight of destroying the, the Palestinian people, of committing genocide, of, you know, joining taking up arms to slaughter Arabs, then how could you be the strong Jew that is worthy of survival? And, and I just want to play a little bit before we go to our break just to emphasize that while this is you should take that data as an opportunity to fracture their Coalition. There are whole swaths of voters that are gettable, that aren't, you know, Nazis or aren't taking you down the path of trying to pursue their votes when it once Trump is cycled out and they can get a new fresher, far right figurehead, they're going to be more drawn towards this person. These are the voters we got to get. Listen to these numbers from Harry Enton, our wonderful theatrical friend, about non voters in 2024 and where they're at with the President are changing, that are moving, that are different than the last election.
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Joe Biden
You know, you mentioned the Republican base in your intro and then obviously there's the Democratic opposition. But what about those who didn't cast a ballot at all, all in 2024, those who didn't show up to vote? Well, they have become absolutely perturbed. I dare say they are pissed off at the President of the United States. Voters who didn't cast a ballot in 2024. Trump's net approval rating back in November of 2024, just after the election, look at his net approval rating was plus 4 points for his plans in office. But look at that, it is falling. Yeah.
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Emma Vigland
Who.
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Joe Biden
There you go, Sarah Seiden. That's the only sound you can make it, it has fallen to the floor. Look at this. Minus 50 points on Trump's net approval rating among voters who did not in fact cast a ballot in 2024. That is, you don't have to be a mathematical genius, an over 50 point move against the President of the United States. Among those who are kind of like meh, you know, in terms of voting in 2024. But now they are pissed off.
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Emma Vigland
Okay, well they're pissed, right. But the question is, will they go out to vote? And so you know, there are around 90 million Americans that did, that was, were eligible to vote, that did not vote in the election. Turnout, it was less than 2020. But it is in terms of like past elections, turnout has increased over the years, voter participation. However, there were many, many voters that sat out because of Gaza, because of the economy, because they didn't like both choices. They do not have ideological Nazi views that are driving them away from Trump and fracturing the Republican Party. They are not going to be swayed. Those voters that I just mentioned from on the Republican side, those are not the, the group of voters that we should be targeting in the same way that the establishment Democrats are obsessed with targeting the moderate Republican. The online media ecosystem that wants to talk about how Marjorie Taylor Greene is the new GOP or whatever is also overemphasizing the getability of the anti Israel right. The voters that Anton just described, that's the pool of people that need to be targeted and that requires mass mobilization. That requires door knocking. That requires a movement, not micro targeting that enriches consultants. Real quick, there's a media company, New
- [21:19]
Brian
York Times Sienna poll just came out. In order to win the next president's election, a Democrat party needs to move left, right, center, whatever this is.
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Emma Vigland
Same poll, by the way.
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Brian
This is of potential Democrat supporters. In other words, people I don't really care to listen to on crime, immigration or trans issues. But the key number there is that they all think the party, even the people that think they're too far to the left on trans, economic or immigration issues, they all want them to go further to the left on health care issues. And the problem with the Democratic Party is who which party won health exec donor funding in the last election? Well, it was the Democrats. So that's why. That's the reason the opposition party isn't really responding to this, but it's the reason why the left is having an insurgent success in places like Pennsylvania, for instance.
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Emma Vigland
Yep, well said. In a moment we're going to be talking to Dr. Yosine Haga about the U.S. china summit. But first, a word from one of our sponsors. Picture this. It is late at night and you're scrolling through your feeds. I wouldn't know anything about that, when all of a sudden you see it. That one product that you have been looking for. You click on the link, you add it to your cart. Maybe you shop around a little bit before you finally hit checkout. And as you're filling in your address, you realize you don't have your cart anywhere near you. You are horizontal in bed with your laptop. You don't want to get up, but you see it glistening. The purple pay button that has all of your information saved, making checking out as simple as a simple tap of your screen. Kaching Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names to brands. Just getting started. I am a Shopify user as a customer, but the Majority Report is also a Shopify user as a business. It has made it extremely easy to for this show, which is not business savvy by any stretch of the imagination, to have a online store where you can buy our merch. Without Shopify, it wouldn't be possible because you can get started with Shopify with your own design studio. You have hundreds of ready to use templates that Shopify helps you build. And it helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style. It accelerates your efficiency whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones. You can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. There's easily. You can easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. Best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. And if you get stuck stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning 24. 7 customer support. Tackle all those important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save on multiple websites or try to find out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place, making your life easier and your business operations smoother. See less carts go abandoned and more sales go ka ching with Shopify and their Shop Pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com Majority go to shopify.com Majority that's shopify.com Majority Kaching. It's down below in the video and episode descriptions and at Majority fm. Quick break. When we come back, we'll be talking to Dr. Yosine Haga.
- [25:21]
Matt Bernstein
Live.
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Emma Vigland
We are back and we are joined Once again by Dr. Yosin Haga, professor, political economist, Assistant professor in Development Studies at Cambridge University and publisher of the Global Currents newsletter. Yostin, welcome back to the show.
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Dr. Yosin Haga
Always good to be on the show.
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Emma Vigland
Emma, thanks for always great to see you and always great to talk to you about US China relations and China in particular. Let's just start from as broad a view as possible. What are your reflections on the US China summit from last week and what US China relations are looking like going forward?
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Dr. Yosin Haga
So I've always thought that US China relations are relatively or better than many people seem to think. Better than maybe sort of the idea we get from the press. There's obviously a rivalry between the US And China economically to some degree, politically as well. But I've sort of maintained a positive spirit in terms of where the relationship is heading because there's so much economic dependence between the two nations. And I think that's something that this summit confirmed, that it's heading in a positive direction. You know, one word that she used a lot was sort of strategic stability going forward. And I, I should mention that I do think one of the reasons why we might see a more Cooperated tone also from the United States is because now China is in a more powerful position than for example, it was last time Trump visited China. So China technologically is now, you know, at the global frontier. They are also a huge geopolitical force and is important strategically, for example, with respect to Iran. So Trump doesn't actually have sort of the cards to be as hawkish or as bullying as maybe he would otherwise have been. So the main takeaway for me is that we're going towards maybe something like a cold peace where they're looking to kind of strengthen cooperation where they can but still maintain certain trade restrictions toward one another.
- [27:48]
Emma Vigland
How do you, I guess, assess that position from Trump in particular? I mean, it was notable that really quite shortly after the summit began, there were shifts that were allowed to pass through the Strait of Hormuz that were going to China. And Trump seemed kind of giddy to be able to provide them with that concession. But in terms of like the, the Trump's position towards China, is it purely because he has a respect for strength and nations that can throw their weight around economically? Because he has many China hawks in his administration. His Secretary of State, Marco Rubio notably, is one of them. And yet they are, it feels like they are sidelined right now in a way that is shockingly encouraging, at least in terms of like the silver linings that we can get from this administration.
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Dr. Yosin Haga
Yeah, this is an interesting observation. Some people say that Trump is the least China hawkish person in his administration. And maybe this, this summit actually confirmed that to some, to some degree because. Well, I don't know if that says more about Trump or if that says more about the Republican Party that he's the least China hawkish person because I don't think it's China friendly. But I do think the Republican Party generally has, has historically had a very hawkish stance towards China. Especially many people in, in this administration have had that reputation. But you are also saying something interesting about Trump's sort of fondness for strongmen. Maybe, you know, he, we also know that he has this, this, this good relationship with Putin, etc. But I do think there is something to be said about Trump trying to be strategic with his relationship with China. We've seen that previous US Trade policy has backfired against China. And I have an interesting story in this respect about how U.S. hawkishness and aggressive trade policy actually boosted China's position visa with the US I was in China recently and I talked to one of the largest companies in the manufacturing sector there who told me that they become more innovative or have been forced to become more innovative because of certain, certain export restrictions and also entity list restrictions on this specific company. It's a very big company in China. I just don't want to mention the name, but people who know China can probably figure out which company I'm talking about. Another interesting example in this respect is the critical minerals restriction that China has put on rare earths. I talked to someone in the government apparatus in China who said that, you know, they actually weren't looking for very explicit weapons to use against the US until the hawkishness and the aggressiveness started from the US side in 2018. So I also do think Trump and smart people around him are trying to be strategic here and realizing that having this extremely aggressive and hawkish posture towards China is actually not to the benefit of the US can you take us
- [31:16]
Emma Vigland
to 2018 and when that hawkishness began and if you could kind of maybe describe the evolution of US hawkishness towards China and bringing us to, you know, eight years later in 2026?
- [31:31]
Dr. Yosin Haga
Yeah. So, you know, it was during Trump's first administration and he, as we know, started this rhetoric about tariffs and also reviving US Manufacturing, US Jobs and his administration around that. So the first aspect we saw of hawkishness, which was, you know, to some degree also motivated by the fact that China became gradually more and more a powerful stage on the world stage in the world economy and a direct economic competitor to the US So it was not necessarily about Trump or specifically the Republican Party, but also China becoming a growing force economically, more of a direct threat and also a growing, I guess, military force as well. So it started with tariffs under Trump, the Trump administration on a range of goods. Then it continued under the Biden administration and export restrictions under Biden became very severe with chips, for example, Biden also put heavy tariffs on imported clean energy products in an attempt to revive and strengthen clean energy domestic manufacturing in the United States. And then we move on to the second Trump administration and as we know, things got, you know, extremely crazy under the so called Liberation Day tariffs, which were just a set of tariffs on a range of, on a range of goods on countries across the world, including China, of course, and export restrictions continuing that are still in place today, especially on advanced chips to China in an attempt to, to sort of curtail and prevent China from developing an advanced semiconductor manufacturing industry. Because as we know, semiconductors are perhaps the key geopolitical technology of this time.
- [33:25]
Emma Vigland
Well, then that's a perfect way, I think, for us to segue to the story. And I mean, it's, you've touched on it. But the, the China banning Nvidia gaming chips during this visit with Jensen Huang, who is Taiwanese, American and you know, of course leads the biggest company in the world right now in video. And it was a bit of a shock that Trump brought Huang with him to China. I think that the, you know, he, he had his little cadre of oligarchs to join him. Elon Musk, Tim Cook, or as he refers to him, Tim Apple. But you also have the CEOs of, of GE, of Goldman Sachs and more. But with Huang coming and then this ban coming from China, I guess, what do you make of that?
- [34:21]
Dr. Yosin Haga
It's, it's. I still haven't seen anything specifically in terms of business deals and economic deals emerging from this summit. There's been relatively little. I thought some huge deals were going to emerge. As you said, we saw him bring this entourage of power CEOs and actually we've never seen a US president bring this kind of force of business power in terms of top Fortune 500 CEOs with him on another state visit. So that's a bit puzzling to see all these big names joining Trump on the visit and then not something explicit economically coming out of this summit. So maybe we'll see something in weeks ahead, I'm not entirely sure. But when it comes to semiconductors, specifically in chips, what we know at this point is that the restrictions from the US side remain largely in place. There's been talks of maybe China loosening some of the export restrictions on rare earths. But we also know that Jensen Huang, he is sort of a more bullish person on China and among, I guess tech CEOs in the US has a more friendly and cooperative approach toward China.
- [35:42]
Emma Vigland
Is that because of Taiwan and Nvidia's reliance?
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Dr. Yosin Haga
Who knows? I'm not entirely sure. I don't think China, you know, China wanted to talk about Taiwan a lot during this summit, saying, you know, please do not change your approach to Taiwan in terms of sort of recognizing Taiwan as a more sovereign entity, etc, it is very dangerous to, you know, China was very clear, it's dangerous to escalate situation in Taiwan in terms of independence in Taiwan. But I do not see even from the Chinese side that they actually, they actually see a benefit to, for example, invading Taiwan, although they do want reunification with Taiwan. Trump seems a bit more nonchalant towards, you know, with respect to this issue. I think also Nvidia and Jens Wang, he's also said Explicitly that these export restrictions on AI chips to China, they're actually not, they're actually not preventing China from innovating. Actually, you know, we're seeing surge in China to innovate in the semiconductor industry right now. And of course, from a business point of view, Nvidia wants to be able to sell its chip chips to as many countries, as many people as possible. So these export restrictions on chips were lifted. That would obviously be good from a sales point of view for Nvidia.
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Emma Vigland
I mean, Trump being ambivalent about whether or not China takes Taiwan is, is actually another consistency with him. When you say, like his fondness for strongmen. It's the same thing with Ukraine, it's the same thing with Gaza. His fondness for Netanyahu. We played the clip earlier of how much Trump saying how much he loves him. Same thing with Putin. And you know, I mean, Modi, you could throw in there as well, but just his, his ambivalence about whether or not the strongmen that he favors or looks up to, I mean, particularly if they're in power for a long time because that seems to be what he wants. He do whatever you want, I'll do, I'll operate in my backyard, I'll do this, you know, brutal blockade of Cuba and you do what you want. But you mentioned that you were in China for a few weeks recently and I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about some of your observations about what you saw there as well, because we've talked about this carbon brief study many times. I think last time you were on, we discussed it as well, how China is growing at its most rapid pace yet, and yet they are declining their carbon emissions and a lot of this is because they have rapidly invested in their infrastructure. What did you see when you were there?
- [38:35]
Dr. Yosin Haga
Yeah, we all know that there are, you know, a bunch of us in the west are now quote, unquote, China maxing and are becoming very impressed with the state of the economy in China. And I have to be honest, with respect to some aspects of the Chinese economy, it is extremely impressive. So, you know, the state of, the state of infrastructure in China, especially the rail system, for example, is, you know, I would say with, with respect to both scale and quality. So if you take both of those into consideration, it might be the world's number one. And to see a quote, unquote developing country having the world's best developed rail system, you know, more than 50, I think around 50,000 kilometers of high speed rail at the moment, which is roughly Two thirds of the world's total, more than the rest of the world combined, is simply insane. I know it's a big country, but they've done it in such a short amount of time. And you know, I went to big train stations, small train stations. It is honestly super impressive. And you also mentioned, you know, this thing about emissions. So for almost two years now, China's emissions have been either flat or falling. This is the first time this has happened in a period when energy demand has been growing because China is still growing as an economy. And you obviously this has been due to a huge surge in investing in clean energy technology. You see this obviously very visibly when you're on the streets with just a huge number of either electric vehicles or electric scooters, when you drive around on the countryside, these massive solar panel farms, etc. So, you know, China is, you know, one impression that I left with, that I left with as I left China is that this country is certainly at the global technological, technological frontier. It's not a country without problems. It's not a country without labor precarities, not a country without people who are struggling. But it can produce literally anything and at all levels of the value chain. So it really has, you know, it is really at the frontier of most things when it comes to manufacturing and production.
- [40:56]
Emma Vigland
And in terms of how China is operating in the international sphere, I think we can bring it back to Iran and speak about that. In contrast, the United States as a declining suit global hegemon, and China as an emerging global superpower, how China is consistent in dealing in a more cooperate, cooperative manner and also in investing in things like soft power and infrastructure in developing parts of the continent of Africa, for example, the United States is slashing our investment in developing countries via usaid, resulting in untold numbers of deaths because of lack of care, for example, and then killing people directly in our dealings with the rest of the world, bombing a little girls school in Iran, committing genocide in Gaza. And then you're seeing Iran go even further into China's sphere of influence. Because why wouldn't you?
- [42:03]
Dr. Yosin Haga
Yeah, I'm really happy you're bringing this up because we're seeing especially, you know, in the last year now, a clear difference in how China operates on the world stage and how the United States operates on the world stage. How many times can, can we mention that the US has broken the UN Charter and broken international law? I've kind of lost count just in, in the past year. China. I wish more people knew about China, that they have a very cooperative approach to international affairs cooperative, meaning that they're willing to sit down, to cooperate, to strike deals with more or less anyone. This is sometimes confusing for countries in the west who think that China is part of some kind of axis of evil with, for example, Russia and Iran. And then they see China criticizing Iran and cooperating with Gulf states and they're like, hang on, what's happening here? The simple answer is that China has an approach to international relations that's more non aligned, that is, they don't see themselves as part of this axis, for example, like NATO.
- [43:09]
Emma Vigland
Can I just interrupt for just a second just to, just to underscore how retrograde Biden's foreign policy is. I mean, defending Ukraine was in the United States interest and I'm supportive of that. But the way that he use that as an opportunity to reify the post World War II order and Naito and try to build that back up, this over focus on alliances versus broad based cooperation is a, you know, an aging, archaic, idiotic strategy that does not look to the future. And you compare that to China and I think, you know, we have a very clear picture.
- [43:48]
Dr. Yosin Haga
I 100% agree with you here. And you know, it's become even clearer. I've sort of, I was all, I was always on the fence about NATO and then, you know, now recently I see Mark Rutte explicitly, so the head of NATO explicitly saying that NATO should be a vehicle for US Imperialism. I think he said that a few months ago. And I'm like, what? No, we, we, we, we cannot have this any longer. I also think, you know, you mentioned something important with respect to how China deals with developing countries. And I, I don't think that's, that's black and white. And there are instances where, you know, China arguably uses some coercive tactics because of its, its power in terms of bilateral relations with other developing countries. But China actually invests in clean energy and infrastructure in these countries. China does not engage in regime change operations. China does not invade other countries. China does not bomb other countries. China does not impose structural adjustment programs on other countries. It's not a fully benevolent force. But yes, I would say they have an approach to international relations that I think makes me hopeful in terms of moving towards a world of multilateralism and real cooperation rather than these traditional north, south relations that resemble very clearly old sort of colonial and imperialist patterns.
- [45:14]
Emma Vigland
Yes. And just to, you know, so people in our audience don't think I'm perhaps being a little bit too critical of Biden. I mean, I don't think I am, because you could see that Obama's approach was more, you know, of course, maintaining U.S. empire, but he wasn't obsessed with the idea of like, reifying these kind of old military alliances. We had the Iran deal. We had a chill air cooling of tensions with, with Cuba. I'm not trying to overstate it, but, like, I'm just, Biden sucks and is not very smart. That's really all I have to say about, about how his foreign policy was, was dealt with lastly, you know, so where do you see China and the United States moving forward? I mean, I know that we don't have details about some of these deals. I know Boeing really wanted a big deal because they're competing with Airbus, and that was a big market that they wanted to tap into. But there was nothing triumphant that came out of this. A feather in Trump's cap. He wanted to be able to say trillions and billions and all that. I'm not seeing that. What's your assessment of that?
- [46:26]
Dr. Yosin Haga
I'm not seeing that either. And I think, again, you know, this, this term, constructive strategic stability that she used many times during the summit, I think is a term that is fitting for where things are headed. You know, there's still going to be tensions between the two countries, not only because of the economic rivalry, but also to some degree because of the political rivalry and the geopolitical rivalry. But as China, and I do believe, although it's, it's not an economy and a country without problems technologically, there's really no sign that China is stopping its surge. And as it becomes more, even more powerful on the world stage, the US Is kind of destined to sort of fall into what China wants and how China wants to do international relations. So I think it'll be, I'm quite certain where China is headed. I'm less certain where the United States is headed. Yes, it might be an empire in decline because they're not exactly making more friends on the world stage, but can it sort of save itself a bit? You know, now with the recent summit in China, you saw actually that they might want to cave in on some of China's demand. If these two powers can actually have strategic, sort of, if these two powers can have peaceful and stable relations with each other, I think that is a good thing for the world. And I do think both leaders of both countries actually see that, although we haven't seen, unfortunately, much of that with respect to Trump's actions elsewhere in the world.
- [48:08]
Emma Vigland
Well said. Dr. Yossi Haga Political Economist Assistant professor in Development studies at Cambridge University and publisher of the Global Currents newsletter. We'll put a link to Global Currents down below wherever people are listening to or watching this. I always appreciate your time. Yostine, thanks so much for coming on the show today.
- [48:28]
Dr. Yosin Haga
Always good to be with you.
- [48:31]
Emma Vigland
Agreed. All right. With that, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we will be joined by Melot Kiros, candidate in Colorado's 1st congressional district.
- [48:59]
Sam Cedar
It. Sam,
- [49:54]
Emma Vigland
We are back and we are joined once again. A second candidate interview in an election cycle. I mean, it must be, must be pretty special. I mean, I'm a big fan of Milad Kiros's campaign in Colorado's 1st congressional district. Milat, thanks so much for coming back on the show.
- [50:12]
Milat Kiros
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
- [50:14]
Emma Vigland
Yeah, I'm glad to be talking to you because we haven't spoken in a few months. And since that time, your campaign has received, you know, a lot more attention and a significant boost even from, you know, the local infrastructure. In Colorado, the district assembly, there was a vote at the end of March where Diana Deget, the nearly 30 year long incumbent, was barely able to get over the 30% threshold which is required for ballot access. On June 30, you got what, nearly two thirds of the vote in the district Assembly. If you could just explain what that is and why that was such a big deal.
- [51:05]
Milat Kiros
Yeah, absolutely. So Colorado has two paths to get onto the ballot. You can either collect signatures or you can go through the Democratic convention. And we went through both. So we were actually the only Democrats in the entire state to collect signatures just with volunteers. Everybody had to pay for organizers to collect those signatures, but we already had so many volunteers that were ready to collect them. So we could have gone on the ballot that way. But we also decided to go through the convention process, which we call caucus and assembly here. And it's, you know, it's a process that I deeply appreciate because it's just a bunch of Democrats in the room that really want to make an active difference in the party and change the trajectory of where we're going because we need to win again and we need to start fighting for working people. That being said, it's not the most democratic process. Right. It takes at least 16 to 18 hours over the course of several days, over the course of several weeks. If you have child care needs, if you work an hourly wage, it's really difficult to be able to meaningfully participate in that process. So we wanted to make sure that we reached every single kind of voter through the signature process and also going through the convention process. And the convention was. It was absolutely incredible. We felt confident going in just because there were so many people that were aligned with our values. But we actually didn't decide to go through caucus until like nine days before the deadline. People had been organizing for weeks in advance before that, but we made a really last minute decision to participate. And so we were just hoping to make past 30% originally. And then we started calling folks asking if we could count on their support. And it started looking like we might get closer to 50%. And then we walked in. Day of at South High School, which is actually the congresswoman's alma mater. So the audience was filled with a lot of her former classmates, people she has known for a really long time. You know, the audience or really just the groups of folks that participate skew, you know, more, older, more. They've really been participating in the party for a really long time. I mean, it's a process that's designed to protect incumbents. And we went on stage, we made our case. I called out who the real problem is, the billionaires and the corporations. I said what we need, which is Medicare for all and using our taxpayer dollars for health care instead of bonds. And I thanked the congresswoman for her service and said that it was time for a change. That got a lot of really, it was an incredible reception. And then following me, the congresswoman came on stage and accused me of lying about something. I don't know what. I said, she takes corporate PAC money. That's a fact. And that wasn't received well either. And so what I think we walked in with like 50% support. We ended up taking away 63% of the vote. And she only, she was 30 votes away from not making the ballot in that first round. And ultimately in the final round, they send some more delegates up to do the last vote. We actually ended up getting 67% of the votes. We managed to flip a few of her delegates. So she just barely made it on with six votes. And she didn't collect signatures also. So that was going to be the end all be all for her.
- [54:15]
Emma Vigland
That's amazing. And you did both, as you mentioned, right. And so you have that as a backstop. It also, like when you collect signatures like that, you're also informing people about your candidacy too. It's a way to door knock and not also door knock. And then that volunteer army can go and door knock as well, you know. Chris Rabb, huge victory in In. In. Rob. Sorry, in Philadelphia. And just earlier this week, I saw that you guys have been kind of posting together on social media and both have DSA behind you. Specifically, can you speak about DSA's role in organizing your campaign and how it's made it easier for you to spread your message across Denver?
- [55:04]
Milat Kiros
Yeah, you know, it's funny. DSA is actually the reason why we went through the convention process. You know, it's just a really arduous process. You have to call every single delegate. And we had gotten the endorsement about 10 days before the caucus and assembly process. And I mean, the might of organizing that comes behind DSA is just unmatched. And, you know, a lot of that comes from the fact that these are working people that are actively fighting for the betterment of every other working person in the country. And so they've been doing this work, whether we're talking about labor rights, whether we're talking about renters rights. And so we just pulled in all of those organizers to help us get through the convention process. And just like you said, while we were also collecting signatures, we were also informing voters about us. And those volunteers are now in the process of helping us get out the vote. And we are really, really lucky to say that we have over 500 volunteers supporting our campaign. 200 to 300 of them are actually on the ground here in Denver that are canvassing for us at least twice a week, phone banking and text banking two to three times a week. And that is truly the power of dsa. Right. We call it the DSA Difference. I am so honored to have the support of this organization and to be fighting alongside people like Chris that are so fearless in this movement. Right. We have. We're at a crossroads where there are things that are going to happen in the next few years that are going to set the trajectory of this country for the next few decades. And if we are not at the helm as Democratic socialists that are laser focused on ensuring that we're protecting people's most basic needs, I'm really scared about what's going to happen. And so to see the win in PA with RepRap is. I'm just so, so proud of them.
- [56:53]
Emma Vigland
What do you make of this? I mean, the state of Democratic primaries right now, and what are you hearing from voters that indicate how badly people really want to change?
- [57:08]
Milat Kiros
Well, I think the first major indication for me was actually during the convention process when there were people who'd gone to class to high school with DeGette who had voted for her proudly for the last 30 years and heard my speech and said, look, I'm grateful for her service, but you're right, there has to be a change and it has to start with addressing the corruption that's in our own party. Cuz the thing is we cannot call out the corruption of Donald Trump of the Republican Party without cleaning up house on our side of the aisle. And when you have Democrats that are taking millions of dollars from big pharma, big energy and oil, defense contractors, aipac voters lose trust that we are going to be the ones that are actually fighting for them just because we say we are right. If we're still taking that dirty money on the side, then how can they actually trust our intentions? And so I think it's really shown that Democratic voters are ready for a change and I also think it's shown that Republican voters are not. Right. We also saw in the same night that Massie and that race what that was another record of 30 something million dollars spent. And I think it makes it clear that Republicans are not ready to have this conversation about the special interests and the impacts that it's having on our government. But Democrats are.
- [58:25]
Matt Bender
REP.
- [58:25]
Milat Kiros
ROB 1 Despite being challenged by two establishment Democrats, despite being outspent by a lot of these special interests. Because we are actually talking about the issues that matter most to the voters.
- [58:37]
Emma Vigland
And you know, we're getting some really great IMs about your candidacy. But you mentioned AIPAC and of course Israel is so central right now in these campaigns because it is a litmus test for how people can trust you. Do you support the slaughter of children or do you not? You mentioned you support Medicare for all universal childcare, but you also support an arms embargo to Israel. Why is that important for you to say versus just say, oh, I'm going to end or I would vote against offensive weapons sales. As a reminder to people, your candidacy got started after you were fired from the law firm that you worked at because you criticized their response to protests against the genocide.
- [59:24]
Milat Kiros
Yeah, the campaign was a couple of years after I got fired, but that cemented a lot of things for me. Right. No, you're good, you're good. That cemented a lot of things for me. Understanding the dynamics of our jobs and the things that provide us our livelihood, preventing us from speaking out on these atrocities that end up becoming genocide. Right. For me, it's important to say we need an arms embargo because words matter and so do policies. You know, the reality is the genocide in Palestine has only gone as far as it has because it is funded by our taxpayer dollars. That is just a fact. And if we want to end the genocide, if you are a candidate that's saying we need to end the violence and we need to protect the children, then stop sending the weapons that are killing them in the first place. It's really that simple. And I think more than anything, the frustrating piece about it is that this is the popular position. This is what Democratic voters want. It's the party that is not caught up on this issue. And it's going to take more and more of us that are running in positions against these incumbents, against the establishment, to say that you are the ones that are out of step with the voters. And the voters want to see an arms embargo so we can finally start working towards peace in that region.
- [60:36]
Emma Vigland
And the arms embargo, to clarify, would also include, say, funding for the Iron Dome, which. Which, you know, I think sometimes when it's spoken about as defensive weaponry, it's not necessarily painting the entire picture, which is that the infrastructure could still be in place and Israel could still pay for it, but we wouldn't have the diplomatic cover from the United States that also allows them to steal land belligerently because they know that they can't receive any because of the United States defense missile defense system. Really, any significant damage that would harm them in that pursuit.
- [61:16]
Milat Kiros
Exactly. I mean, look, we saw reporting from the Times that the administration and Israel had. They were waiting for the Biden administration to tell them to knock it off. They were waiting to be told that they needed to commit to a ceasefire and it never came. Our taxpayer dollars, our funding of this weaponry is our leverage. That is how we can stop the violence that is happening there. And I want to be clear as well, exactly what you said. A weapon is a weapon. Right? There is no distinction between offensive and defensive, because at the end of the day, it is the weaponry that gives them the impunity to commit this genocide in Palestine in the first place. And I want to make it clear that this isn't just about not giving them free weapons. This is about halting every sale of every weapon, period, until we have a true ceasefire and an actual delivery of aid and a commitment to rebuilding Gaza and a commitment to a right of return. A commitment to actually seeing peace, dignity and security for every single person in that land right now.
- [62:20]
Emma Vigland
Love that answer. Really appreciate it. I just want to read some of these IMs, because we're getting a lot about people, even in Colorado, who have been canvassing for you. Cameron from Denver. I've been canvassing from a lot in Denver and I've had so many positive encounters. It's been really inspiring talking to neighbors about issues that matter to them and seeing it connect that there's a candidate who actually cares about those issues. Seems like people are ready for a change. Also, Obligatory Denver DSA Plug Join your local DSA chapter, folks. Science is political. Saying that now that they've graduated, they have the phone time to phone bank for you in Denver. And this one is great too. From the same person signs is political. I know an older military veteran over 75 who is friends with Diana and even has said that she's been MIA as a congresswoman. He said he likes Melot's fight. So that's gotta be a pretty great endorsement, huh?
- [63:18]
Milat Kiros
No, we'll take it honestly. You know, it's funny we talk about this being a generational fight and in so many ways it really is. But some of my strongest supporters are voters over the age of 65 that that are knocking on doors for us, hosting house parties for us. Because for a lot of them, either they're ready to pass the torch. They want to see the next generation of leadership actually being in public service and fighting for the kind of solutions that maybe weren't available before. But some of our older voters, they've been protesting since Vietnam. They've known these problems for a really long time. And I think we're coming to a point now where this money in politics issue is no longer just the slogan. It's no longer this abstract idea. People really can concretely see just how corrupted our government and our politics and our campaigns have become. And I think that's what's gotten us so many fired up, excited volunteers. I always brag we've got the best volunteers in the state. They are doing so, so much work. And if there are any other folks that are in Colorado that are listening to this, please join us. We're canvassing every single weekend. We've got socials afterwards as well too. It's a really incredible community we've been building.
- [64:36]
Emma Vigland
How can people do so it's a great way to plug your website if they want to volunteer or phone bank for you. Where should they go?
- [64:44]
Milat Kiros
Please? Yes, go to kiros4co.com to just learn about the race and learn about our priorities and everything. And then go to win.kyros4co.com that's going to be where you can find everything for canvassing, for phone banking. And we've got a bunch of events that are also happening in Fact, if you're in Colorado, we are having a town hall tonight, which we're really excited about, but there's so many ways to get plugged in. And then if you also go to our socials a lot, Kurosco, you can find everything that's happening on the campaign that way, too.
- [65:13]
Emma Vigland
A lot written for you over here on the East Coast. We'll put a link to all of that down below, wherever people are listening to or watching this. Thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
- [65:22]
Sam Cedar
It.
- [65:23]
Milat Kiros
Thank you. Have a wonderful. Bye.
- [65:25]
Emma Vigland
Thanks. Bye. Thanks so much. All right, folks, quick break, and we will be joined by Matt Bernstein in just a second.
- [65:49]
Sam Cedar
Sam,
- [66:15]
Emma Vigland
we are back, and we are joined by my dear friend Matt Bernstein, the host of the A Bit Fruity podcast. If I talk about how wonderful Matt is, I might, like, actually get a little bit choked up because I love him so much. One of my great friends, Matt, welcome to the show.
- [66:34]
Matt Bernstein
Thank you so much for having me, Emma. And I do know this to be true, because it doesn't take that much to get you choked up.
- [66:40]
Emma Vigland
So. Yeah, okay, well, that's obvious. I've definitely cried just talking because I mean this with all sincerity. You are extremely talented, brilliant, and very kind and wonderful. And so the fact that we get to collaborate together is such a joy in my professional life.
- [67:01]
Matt Bernstein
Oh, my God. I. I couldn't agree more. And I'm so excited to talk about what we have done.
- [67:07]
Emma Vigland
What have we done? What have we done, Matt? We've made some waves.
- [67:12]
Matt Bernstein
We did. I mean, how. Do you want to team me up, or.
- [67:16]
Emma Vigland
Yeah, that was me teeing you up, my dear love.
- [67:19]
Matt Bernstein
Well, so for those who haven't followed this sort of saga, obviously, there's this very contentious Michigan Senate primary between Haley Stevens, who's like the AIPAC candidate, Mallory McMorrow, who's like the centrist candidate, and Abdullah Sayed, who is the progressive, pro Palestine, Medicare for all candidate.
- [67:39]
Sam Cedar
It.
- [67:40]
Matt Bernstein
And I have. I've done an interview with Abdul and on my podcast, A Bit Fruity. And after we published it, Mallory McMorrow, the centrist candidates team, reached out and was like, we would love to do an interview as well. And I thought that was pretty stunning considering, like, the way we sort of, like, maligned some of her, you know, views. And obviously, like, I was interviewing his opponent, but she wanted to. And she was like, mallory, you know, has this amazing LGBT record, and we're fans of the show. And I was like, I. The first thing I did was text Emma because I was like, gee, like
- [68:22]
Emma Vigland
they're fans of the show.
- [68:24]
Matt Bernstein
I mean, I. And they said, you know, whatever. But so I said yes. And then they requested a topic list. And I wanted to make calculations throughout the whole process that would tee me up to get the interview. And so, you know, a lot of people said, well, you should have never submitted a topic list. But, you know, then she could have just as easily been like, well, we're not going to do it then. So there was kind of a game.
- [68:49]
Emma Vigland
We decided when we were chatting if we want to take a little bit of a peek behind the curtain. You had. We had been talking about potentially me joining this interview for a little while, even before she ended up canceling. And your response was when they asked about what the topics were going to be, you responded to the McMurraw campaign and said, health care and foreign policy, which is absolutely as vague as possible. But it was both, both what we wanted to ask her. And that, that answer that she'd had about Medicare for all has been a bee in Sam's bonnet for a few months at this point. And so I was like, perfect opportunity. Then they canceled the interview. You have a large social media following. You called out the fact that they canceled the interview after those were the topics that were relayed to them, and then they came back and said, okay, actually we'll do it. And that is why we ended up getting that interview. And we did it on Friday. We recorded it last Friday. It came out earlier this week and it's been making the rounds. Let's just play a little section of it, because this part, I think was maybe one of the funnier moments.
- [69:58]
Matt Bernstein
Partisan U.S. support. And so I wonder if you continue to support defensive weapons infrastructure to Israel, how you see yourself as utilizing any of the leverage you could have as a US Senator in this situation. And I guess how you think, because. Because like this two state solution line, right, it's the party line for a long, long, long, long time, since the 90s, and it just hasn't borne out. I think probably everyone on all sides of this issue could agree with that. And so I wonder how you are breaking from the establishment in a way that would materially benefit the people who frankly, like my tax dollars, are killing.
- [70:44]
Emma Vigland
Yeah, and I'm glad that you framed it that way because I think there's a difference, Matt, in how you asked your question versus Emma. One is the specific framework of the borders of the nations. The other is what?
- [70:57]
Matt Bernstein
Leverage.
- [70:57]
Emma Vigland
Okay, that's really it. Uh, I. First of all, good job in the Editing. Keeping both of our little smirks in as we looked at each other on camera.
- [71:07]
Matt Bernstein
Oh, I had to. I. You know, I love a little drama.
- [71:11]
Emma Vigland
I know you do. And so. Well, that was funny. That was kind of the tone. I'm not sure if she was consciously trying to split us up or if it was more just organic in the moment or if she'd been familiar with the majority reports criticisms of her before. But I guess what do you reflect on with that interview? Like, how it went, why it seemed like she was really trying to appeal to you, but be hostile towards me throughout. And, I mean, what do you. How do you feel about it? I. We haven't really talked about it that much.
- [71:44]
Matt Bernstein
Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about it. I mean, I actually added in some of my, like, solo thoughts at the end of the actual video in case people want to watch it, just about her answers to my questions. But I think, you know, I actually don't think, despite the fact that I think we did a pretty good job with the interview of pressing her on, like, why do you support the Iron Dome? That was really what I wanted to ask her. I was like, why do you support a two state solution when that has never borne out in reality? And why do you support the Iron Dome? Because you say you want peace, but how is that leveraging your status as a senator to. To create that reality? And the thing about me that I think is, like, not cut out to do these sorts of things is that, like, I'm a very, very, like, soft person. I always have been. And the thing about Mallory McMorrow is, like, like, I. When the interview came out on Monday, I was like, I bet I'm gonna be the reason she has a really bad day, you know?
- [72:42]
Emma Vigland
Right.
- [72:43]
Matt Bernstein
And I am not great at politics because I sometimes struggle to, like, divorce those, like, very personal feelings from, like, this is policy making, you know, and, like, I'm sure that it would be fun for me to get a drink with Mallory McMurray. Like, I bet she probably, like, gets down at a good drag bar or something. And with that being said, like, I think that we should hang out, I think that we should have fun, and I think that she shouldn't run for office on these positions.
- [73:08]
Emma Vigland
Yeah.
- [73:08]
Matt Bernstein
You know what I mean?
- [73:09]
Emma Vigland
I know exactly what you mean. I don't. First of all, you did phenomenally. And it's a callus that you can build where I felt the same way as I've, like, been doing more of these political interviews. But you start to kind of just get the focus on you focus on what the goal is and what do you want to extract and you want to ask specific policy questions. And I think we achieved that and you did a great job of that. But, like, what do you make of her saying that she was a fan of you? I guess. And, you know, what do you think they thought your politics were?
- [73:48]
Matt Bernstein
Well, a lot of people have commented because she, she said in the, in the run up to the interview that we're such fans of the show. She said in the interview itself, I've been a fan of you for years. And then a lot of comments were like, how has she been a fan if she clearly, like, didn't see these questions coming? Or how is she a fan and supports the Iron Dome? You know, it doesn't make sense. But I've been on the Internet for a long time and I've kind of grown up on the Internet and I've sort of grown into my political identity while I've been really public. And so like, you know, like my earliest, like viral content on Instagram, if people don't know, and I'm glad that they don't because it's, you know, the road is long. But it was just kind of all about like LGBT type, very like Hillary Clinton era, love is love stuff. I was like a 19 year old gay boy who was like coming out into the world and being like, this is like the thing about me that I want to talk about all the time. And for a long time it was. And so then, especially when that became the center of these culture wars, really starting with the Ron DeSantis don't say gay bill. And I think 2022 and LGBT politics did become like the focal point of American culture wars for a while there. I was sort of well positioned to be making content about how ridiculous it all was. So this is all to say I do believe she was a fan of me at that time. And I do believe what she said of like, oh, we were circulating your Instagram content in the Michigan State Senate. I believe that. And maybe she just hasn't looked at like, really anything that I've done since then is all I can speculate, you know.
- [75:29]
Emma Vigland
Yeah. And there was, at the end of your kind of recap of the, the interview, you mentioned how there were a few things that were contradictory that she kept doing. One was saying that the we shouldn't be making determinations based on polling about how our policies should be oriented. And that was as it related to Israel. And when I was pointing out how an Overwhelming amount of the Democratic base wants to cut off all arms. There was a new New York Times Siena poll that just came out that also reified those assessments from other polls. I mean, it's, it's, it's a 9010 issue with, with Democratic voters. So she was saying that essentially we shouldn't be making policy determinations based on that. I think I followed up with her saying morality is also a part of it, too. So the polls are, the voters are on your side and it's immoral to continue to support Israel's genocide. But then earlier in the interview, she had been talking about how she can't support Medicare for all because the polling isn't there or the numbers and the, and the support for that isn't there. And as you pointed out in your recap, what's, what are we supposed to be making policy. Policy assessments based on, in terms of what you're running on if it's neither polling nor ideology?
- [76:57]
Matt Bernstein
Yeah, that's right. She, you know, she said multiple times throughout the interview of like, well, sometimes the job of a, of a, of a senator is to put their personal, to check their beliefs at the door and, you know, represent the majority of people that they're, that who are their constituents. And then we're like, okay, well this is what the majority of your constituents believe. And she was like, not, not like that, though. And it's like, well, okay, so if it's not polling and it's not beliefs of your own, then it's like this third, like, amorphous, like we're never going to know. I mean, it reminds me of like, the opaqueness right now around, like, the DNC autopsy. It's all just like, this is what people hate about Democrats right now is that, like, there is no transparency around what your decision making is not. And, you know, she also kept saying that, you know, I am, I'm someone who's breaking from the establishment in a pragmatic way, which, like, we can get into, like, what that even means. But I kept coming back to like, how are you breaking from the establishment? How.
- [78:06]
Emma Vigland
Yes, and she kept trying to say she was, but with having zero policy positions that would justify that, that claim that it's been interesting because, you know, as you mentioned, you're kind of just more dipping your toe into some of the political interviews, politician interviews. But you had the Abdullah Sayed interview, which was great. And that was why McMorra wanted to also kind of get FaceTime with you on your platform. Have you been getting other interests from other politicians. And what can you tell us about that?
- [78:41]
Matt Bernstein
Yeah, well, since I started doing this stuff, it was really. Since I live in New York City and campaigned pretty hard for Zoron and with, with his team and following them to the events and stuff, because I was, you know, that was like the first time in my life where I was like, I'm really excited about a politician. And so it was really since my involvement with that campaign that a lot of politicians have started to reach out, despite the fact that, like, if people don't know me, like, most of my stuff is really like, focused on like, the political aspects of culture. Like, I just put out a two hour long podcast episode about like clavicular and like, you know, generational nihilism. And like, that's kind of my bread and butter. But I think the politician stuff is fun. I think it's sort of fun toying with them a little bit, as we did here. I don't think it's particularly hard to do as long as, you know, you can get them in the room with you. I think that's the hardest part. And speaking of, you know, one campaign that, that was initially reaching out through surrogates to me to try to, you know, do a collab or like, do content or something, was that of Scott Wiener in San Francisco, which is actually
- [79:51]
Emma Vigland
where I am right now, running against Shoikat Chakrabati.
- [79:54]
Matt Bernstein
Running against Shoikat Chakrabarti. Exactly. And Scott Wiener has a long history of, you know, aiding these sort of pressure campaigns to get people fired. Like, I think the president of a university fired for like even speaking with the like, SJP chapter, like something like that, like Students justice for Palestine for
- [80:17]
Emma Vigland
saying that he, you know, for entering into an agreement with them about divestment. He led a campaign to get this university president. President fired.
- [80:26]
Matt Bernstein
Yeah. I mean, Scott Wiener has been sort of like a staunch Zionist for the entirety of his career until like 15 minutes ago when he decided to run in this district. And he, as soon as he announced his campaign, he was like, like, I've resisted the word genocide for two years, but, you know, now I'm calling it a genocide. And it has nothing to do with the fact that I just launched a campaign in a district where if I don't call it a genocide, there's no way I'll ever get elected. So. And you know, he's still running on these sort of like liberal Zionist policy positions. There's no world in which I would support him, frankly. And. But you know, he is also really running on, like, gay identity politics. There are posters for him all around the city. His. His, his logo has a rainbow. He's tall. He's running on being tall. He's six, seven, which, like, now I know that because that's like a policy that he's running on. But he has, you know, he has a rainbow flag in his campaign logo. And anyway, he, you know, one of his campaign surrogates wanted to, like, make content with me. And then the evening on the day that we put out our McMorrow interview, I was. I was notified that his schedule has been booked and it's filled and forever. And we. Can. We. Well, not forever. He said maybe we can talk after the General. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. After the primary.
- [81:52]
Emma Vigland
Primary. After the primary. When. Yeah, of course there's no risk. So there you go.
- [81:58]
Matt Bernstein
So, you know, and it's just, I think, you know, one of the risks for me in doing this McMorrow interview is I feel like, like, I feel like I had really one chance to, like, do a good job with it, because now there's probably going to be a period of time where none of these people will talk to me because they know that I'll answer that. I'll ask very simple questions about, like, why do you support funding of any kind to a state that's committing a genocide? And that's not a gotcha question. It's just a question that for a number of reasons, these people can't answer. And so, you know, now they won't let me ask it. But I'm glad I got the opportunity to do it once with you, no less.
- [82:39]
Emma Vigland
Yes, exactly. And I really appreciate you bringing me in for that. I mean, Sam's best advice that he's ever given to me is about if you're going on a show, like a right wing show, you go and you behave like you're not going to get invited back. Because if you're worried about getting invited back, then you're not going to do a good job. And that's some advice that I've really internalized. And I think you can kind of. Of extrapolate that to interviews with candidates. Like, why would we have held back? This is much more impactful than, say, a bunch of kind of more lukewarm interviews for politicians that are coming down the line. You just have to take your shots when you can get them.
- [83:20]
Matt Bernstein
That's right.
- [83:22]
Emma Vigland
So everybody needs to check out. A bit fruity, if you aren't already. I have been on a few times. What do we did a Deborah messing up episode about her liberal Zionism, or not liberal Zionism. Her Zionism, that was sort of like
- [83:34]
Matt Bernstein
a magnum opus for me. Also, Deborah Messing is like, this random fixture in my brain probably till the end of time. And we explored her descent into, like, being a pro Netanyahu lady, you know, after having received, like, GLAAD Media Awards in the. In the mid 2010s. And Emma helped me dive into what the hell happened there.
- [83:57]
Emma Vigland
Yes, but you just recently had Naomi Klein on, so if people aren't already listening to a bit fruity, please check it out, folks. We got some nice IMs, and then I'll let you go, Matt. But Floyd the Barber, I don't know if Matt was the first, but he did a great job of being kind and fair with Ashley Sinclair while also holding her accountable. Neither he nor Juniper led her off the hook. They gave her space at the same time. Spaghetti brain says, Matt, you are so good at interviews. You're already great at podcasting, so would have been o interviews weren't your strong suit, but you are so good. And wuhan, Emma, thanks for sharing the on the tough emotions and complicated human relationships about speaking truth to power, Dave from Talon says, does Matt realize how much more devastating it is to hear? I think you're fun. I'd like to hang out with you, and I don't think you should run for office. Then I think you're evil and you shouldn't run. I mean, that is kind of devastating, I gotta say.
- [84:58]
Matt Bernstein
Can I just say, like, that's. That thought has, like, kept looping in my head since. Since our interview, where I'm like, you know, she's. I don't know the ins and outs of what's happening in the Michigan State Senate, but it sounds like she's done good stuff. Like, she. Mallory, you know, gave that viral speech where she, like, really stood up for LGBT people amidst, like, the height of the culture wars in Michigan. I'm like, like, maybe stay in Michigan and keep doing that stuff. You know, I just. I don't think everyone has to climb the ladder of, like, insatiable power to the point where then they get, you know, bought out by these donors and whatever and. And put forth indefensible policy positions that I have to imagine if Mallory McMorrow were just an individual that I was getting dinner with with that she could not defend.
- [85:50]
Emma Vigland
Yes.
- [85:51]
Matt Bernstein
You know what I mean? And, like, that's the part of me that's like, I want to see the best in everyone. That's I feel like what I always do on my podcast but I'm just like, just don't run for federal office. Just do something else. You seem like a fine person. Just do something else.
- [86:04]
Emma Vigland
I would agree. Well, Matt Bernstein, we will put a link to a bit fruity and of course the full interview below. Great to see you my friend. And. And yes, it's always fun to collaborate.
- [86:17]
Matt Bernstein
Love you so much, Emma. Thank you for.
- [86:19]
Emma Vigland
I love you too. Okay. All right. Don't make me cry. Okay, bye. With that we are going to wrap up the first hour of this show, the free part of the show and head into the not so free part of the show where we will take your calls and read your IMs. Matt, Matt did just dip out because Matt Leck because I got him sick and he's still not feeling great. So Brian, what's happening on Left Reckoning and I don't know yet. Jackman show. Sorry, I'm still looking it up. Okay. Soon enough. I don't know right now. Hold on. You can. How about just coffee? Just coffee, Co op, fair trade coffee and some other thing. I forget if you if it's tea or if it's chocolate. I should probably know this by now. As a reminder, this show relies on your support. You can go to jointhemajorityreport.com become a member. It keeps us resilient when we're on these third party platforms that could take us off at any moment. Okay. Left Reckoning. Yes. Yesterday new episode came out. Matt and David discuss AOC's take on the American revolution before Rompone joins Matt to discuss AI cluelessness, Zoron and politics in California. Very nice.
- [87:39]
Matt Bernstein
All right.
- [87:40]
Emma Vigland
And I think we will be joined by Brandon Sutton in just a second. We'll read some IMs as we bring him in. Vox populate. Emma, why didn't Matt B stand for stay for the fun half? Well, because it can get a little crowded when we have a bunch of people in the fun half. But one day we got to do that. I want to. I'm going to definitely be collaborating more with Matt. Austentatious Hassan, watch your interviews live. The minute it was available on YouTube he was visibly so proud. The two of you. I did see some clips from that. So thank you so much for Hassan to Hasan for watching spaghetti brains. That McMorrow was interview was embarrassing for her. When Emma asked how she thought the land should be split up, she completely backed away from the issue. And that was Shell Chef's kiss. Yeah. She couldn't answer the two state solution Thing. It just drives me insane. There are 700,000 plus illegal Israeli settlers in the land that's supposed to be Palestine. You're going to forcibly remove them. That's your policy. And then I sarcastically made a joke about a Palestinian Iron Dome and she was like, that's an idea. Oh, so like, just instead of cutting weapons to one country, let's give weapons to every country. Nothing.
- [88:56]
Matt Bender
Yeah, Standoff.
- [88:57]
Emma Vigland
Nothing safer than that. And you know what's going to just get 100 out of 100 votes in the United States Senate? A weapons defense system for Hamas.
- [89:07]
Joe Biden
No.
- [89:07]
Matt Bender
I mean, no, it's. It's brilliant. We will arm both sides of the war. That's how you make double the money.
- [89:14]
Emma Vigland
Kaching. Hello, Brandon. Hello, Matt at Bender. Brandon, what's happening on the Discourse?
- [89:21]
Matt Bender
Well, we are very excited at the Discourse, which you can watch over on YouTube or Twitch if you search for the discourse with Brandon, because of the news that Michael Bay has been attached as the director to the dramatic recreation of the pilot rescue from about seven, eight weeks ago. You've probably forgotten about the dramatic rescue of pilot. Jesus Christ. On Easter in April.
- [89:50]
Emma Vigland
Are you joking or is this real?
- [89:52]
Matt Bender
This is real. He's been attached as a director with the same writer who wrote the Benghazi movie that had John Krasinski in it. Yeah, because, you know, John Krasinski is a big Benghazi guy or something.
- [90:06]
Emma Vigland
So is that. That. That guy's whole shtick now is doing pro CIA Ryan.
- [90:13]
Matt Bender
So he's a super big Benghazi guy is what I've heard, which in this case means that he's. He's big into like, the Hillary Clinton did Benghazi. Liberals love Benghazi kind of thing. I don't want to mischaracterize him, but I have heard that, like, when the Benghazi movie that he was in did poorly, he took it very personally and he kind of like, really just dove headfirst into doing, like, stuff like this. And that's why he's in that Jack Ryan show, not to be confused with the Jack Reacher show where he talks about nuclear Venezuela and like, I don't know, suicide dolphins or whatever. But yeah, so Michael Bay and the guy who wrote the movie, the Benghazi movie movie that John Krasinski was in are attached to be like the team helming the, I guess, movie adaptation of the rescue of the pilot in Iran that happened seven weeks ago. And so we're excited over on the Discourse, which you can watch on YouTube and Twitch for more information about this guy to come out because it seems like now that they're making a movie, they'll have to tell us some more about this guy. So, yeah, it's. So we're hoping to, over the next few days, be able to at least, like, start to unpack what could have possibly happened on Christ's birthday or resurrection day or whatever, you know, Bris last month. So, yeah, definitely check it out if you're interested in that kind of stuff or like, ghosts and goblins. We got really into, like, the atlant the Antarctic ice wall this week, too. Definitely check out the discourse.
- [91:39]
Emma Vigland
Do that. Hello, Matt Bender, what's happening in your neck of the woods? You are muted. You are muted. You are muted.
- [91:49]
Matt Bender
Once again. Whoops.
- [91:51]
Emma Vigland
Whoops.
- [91:52]
Matt Bender
I'm back.
- [91:53]
Emma Vigland
Okay, we hear you. All good. All right. Yeah.
- [91:57]
Matt Bender
YouTube.com mattbender Tonight, 8:30pm Eastern Time, leftist mafia tune in. I kept it short as possible because I ruined it by muting myself.
- [92:06]
Emma Vigland
You didn't ruin anything. Don't worry. We've had much worse technical issues that we've just come completely plowed through, so. All right, guys, we will see you in the fun half.
- [92:20]
Matt Bernstein
Okay?
- [92:21]
Donald Trump
Emma, please.
- [92:21]
Milat Kiros
Well, I just.
- [92:22]
Emma Vigland
I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority report. Wait, look.
- [92:27]
Matt Bender
Sam is unpopular.
- [92:29]
Sam Cedar
I do deserve a vacation at Disney World, so. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show.
- [92:34]
Emma Vigland
It is Thursday.
- [92:37]
Dr. Yosin Haga
Co. River, Sam.
- [92:38]
Sam Cedar
Yes, please.
- [92:39]
Emma Vigland
No, no, no.
- [92:39]
Sam Cedar
I'm.
- [92:40]
Emma Vigland
I'm.
- [92:40]
Sam Cedar
I'm going to pause you right there.
- [92:41]
Emma Vigland
Wait, what?
- [92:42]
Sam Cedar
You can't encourage Emma to live like this. And I'll tell you why. Was offered a tour, Sushi and poker with the boys. Tour, sushi and poker with the boys. Who was offered with tour. Yeah, sushi and poker with the boys. What? Tour, sushi and poker.
- [93:00]
Emma Vigland
Tim's upset.
- [93:01]
Sam Cedar
Tour, sushi and poker. Sushi and that's what we call biz. Sushi and bulker or toot Boys.
- [93:11]
Emma Vigland
Right.
- [93:12]
Sam Cedar
Sushi.
- [93:13]
Emma Vigland
We're gonna get demonetized.
- [93:15]
Sam Cedar
I just think that what you did to Tim Pool was mean free speech. That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about it because I think you're responsible.
- [93:26]
Emma Vigland
I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.
- [93:31]
Sam Cedar
Sushi and poker with the boys.
- [93:33]
Emma Vigland
Oh, my God. Wow.
- [93:34]
Sam Cedar
Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered a tour, sushi and poker with boys. Logic. Tour, sushi and poker with boys. I Think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Add this debate 7,000 times. A little kid. I think I'm like a little care. I don't care. Think I'm like a dick. So I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but, like, I absolutely think the US should be providing me with a wife and the kids.
- [94:06]
Emma Vigland
That's not what we're talking about here.
- [94:10]
Sam Cedar
It's not a fun job. That's a real thing. That's that real thing. Real thing. Willy Wonka. That's a real thing. That's that real thing. That's a real thing. That's real thing. Real thing. That's a real thing. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. That's a real thing.
- [94:31]
Matt Bender
Oh, I think he might be blowing it out of proportion.
- [94:32]
Sam Cedar
Real thing. That's poker boy. That's a real thing. That's poker. Let's go, Joe. Sushi and poker boy. Take it easy. Sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out the of of hand. Sushi and poker with the boys. Sushi. You don't have a clue as to what's going on live YouTube.
- [94:54]
Emma Vigland
Sam has, like, the weight of the world on his shoulders. Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore.
- [94:59]
Sam Cedar
Anymore.
- [94:59]
Emma Vigland
It was so much easier when the majority report was just you.
- [95:04]
Sam Cedar
Let's change the subject.
- [95:06]
Emma Vigland
Rangers and Nicks are doing great.
- [95:08]
Sam Cedar
Now shut it up.
- [95:09]
Emma Vigland
You don't want people saying reckless things on your program.
- [95:11]
Donald Trump
Now, of the most difficult parts about
- [95:13]
Emma Vigland
this show, this is the pro killing podcast.
- [95:16]
Sam Cedar
I'm thinking maybe it's time to bury the hatchet.
- [95:18]
Emma Vigland
Left his best Violet tour.
- [95:20]
Sam Cedar
Don't be foolish and don't tweet at me. And don't the way Emma has cucked all of these people.
- [95:26]
Dr. Yosin Haga
Love it.
- [95:27]
Emma Vigland
That's where my heart is. So I wrote my honors thesis about it.
- [95:32]
Sam Cedar
She wrote an honest thesis.
- [95:35]
Emma Vigland
I guess I should hand the main
- [95:36]
Sam Cedar
mic to you now right off the foreign policy.
- [95:39]
Emma Vigland
We already fund Israel, dude. Are you against us?
- [95:42]
Sam Cedar
That's a tougher question. I have an answer to.
- [95:49]
Emma Vigland
Incredible theme song.
- [95:50]
Matt Bernstein
I bumbler Emma Viand.
- [95:52]
Emma Vigland
Absolutely one of my favorite people, actually. Not just in the game, like, period.