3698 - Inside The DNC's Dysfunction; Gen Z Revolts In India w/ David Hogg, Biplob Kumar Das

Summary

The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3698 - Inside The DNC's Dysfunction; Gen Z Revolts In India
Date: July 29, 2026
Host: Emma Vigeland (in for Sam Seder)
Guests: David Hogg, Biplab Kumar Das

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Episode Overview

This episode features two major interviews:

1. David Hogg (former DNC Vice Chair & President of Leaders We Deserve) on the mounting dysfunction within the Democratic National Committee, including financial woes, consultant class issues, and the failure of party leadership to adapt.
2. Biplab Kumar Das (investigative reporter) on India’s unprecedented Gen Z-led “Cockroach Protests,” exploring how young people forced the Modi government to bow to their demands amid mounting state repression.

In addition, the hosts discuss the fallout of recent Senate hearings with Dr. Fauci, U.S. public health crises under Trump’s second term, and shifting global political currents.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trump Administration’s Public Health Crisis

Segment Start: 04:38

• Rand Paul’s Hearing With Dr. Anthony Fauci:

  • Fauci pleads the Fifth, citing ongoing public attacks and threats from Sen. Rand Paul and others.
  • [07:49] “Any reasonable person who has followed his unhinged obsession with me would readily come to the same conclusion. Therefore…I will invoke my right under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution...” — Dr. Fauci

• Culture War Around Public Health:

  • Vigeland and Leck discuss how COVID-19 became a right-wing culture war issue; conspiracy, distrust, and “pseudo-freedoms” undermined the legitimacy of public health.
  • Big pharma’s protection of vaccine IP and focus on profits is critiqued.

• Hydroxychloroquine and Persistent Misinformation:

  • Comparison between Fauci and Trump advisor Peter Navarro, the latter still touting disproven COVID remedies.
  • [11:06] “He got the FDA to stop me from doing that. Thousands of people could be here in this country right now alive if I had been able to distribute that, take that to the bank. That's what the science says.” — Peter Navarro (parodically quoted by the hosts)

• Consequences of Anti-Science Governance:

  • Discussion of the “charlatan” market: alternative medicine, anti-vax movements, RFK Jr., and their political profitability.
  • “There's a whole industry right now that's getting very rich that RFK and his acolytes are connected to.” [20:34] — Emma Vigeland

Timestamps

• 04:38: Fauci’s Fifth Amendment invocation & context
• 10:54: Host disdain for hydroxychloroquine advocates
• 12:59: Current U.S. outbreaks blamed on gutted CDC funding and Trump-era cuts
• 18:09: Dr. Peter Hotez on the U.S. losing measles elimination status

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2. Inside the Democratic National Committee: Debt, Dysfunction, & Consultant Class

Segment Start: 26:26 (Interview with David Hogg)

What is the DNC?

• Hogg clarifies distinctions between the DNC, DCCC, and DSCC and their specific campaign roles.
  [27:01] “The DNC...is the presidential campaign in waiting...They also help manage state and territorial Democratic parties...” — David Hogg

Institutional Malaise and Loss of Trust

• Vigeland notes that while individual Democratic candidates still raise money, trust in official party institutions is at a low.
• Hogg details the botched “autopsy” — a post-election report promised by DNC Chair Ken Martin, which was incomplete and sidestepped key issues like Gaza, inflation, and Biden’s age. [32:06] “It was just a bunch of internal mechanics and zero conversation around the issues. And also it couldn't even include a conclusion...” — David Hogg

Structural & Financial Failures

• DNC has $2 million in debt vs the RNC’s $100 million on hand.
• Financial dysfunction is attributed not just to post-Obama party restructuring but fundamental resistance to change and an antiquated leadership structure. [36:32] “This is a problem...Obama has not been president since 2016. It's been a decade. And that should not result in them having $2 million in debt. Any basic level of competence would result in them not being in this position.” — David Hogg

The Consultant Class Problem

• Overreliance on high-priced consultants over grassroots organizing.
• Left/progressive campaigns are punished by this structure due to consultant compensation models. [40:37] “I like to call ourselves like anti consultants in some ways...We're not incentivized to tell you to keep spending money on your campaign...” — David Hogg

Notable Quote

[43:35] “It's an incredibly dysfunctional organization and the fact that we're having to put the building up as collateral is not a product just of, it's not a product just of the, the overall environment. Right. It's important to remember Republicans are not popular right now...It's because the Democratic establishment lacks two things more than anything else. Courage and a vision for what to do.” — David Hogg

Generational Change & Primary Fights

• Rise of progressive Gen Z and millennial candidates via groups like Leaders We Deserve is shifting power away from the entrenched party “gerontocracy.”
• Consultant resistance and skeptical donors face off against a growing base of small-dollar contributors.
  • [49:09] On primary calendar stitch-ups: Hogg argues strong candidates can succeed regardless, but the fight over which state goes first (esp. South Carolina v. Nevada) reveals calcified establishment thinking.

Specific Races Highlighted

• Patrick Roth vs. conservative Dem Stephen Lynch (MA)
• Donovan McKinney vs. Sri Tandadar (MI)
• Mai Vang vs. Doris Matsui (CA)

Structural Transformation Needed

[22:27] “You need to be empowered through the state.” — Matt Leck

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3. Gen Z’s “Cockroach Protests” in India

Segment Start: 56:53 (Interview with Biplab Kumar Das)

Political Backdrop

• Modi’s BJP saw reduced seats in the 2024 election, now must govern via coalition, but has doubled down on authoritarian maneuvers, institutional capture, and electoral malpractices. [57:58] “He won a landslide majority in 2014...but in 2024, because of public dissatisfaction...his numbers...went down. He was able to form a government only through coalition.” — Biplab Kumar Das

The Birth of the Cockroach Movement

• Sparked by a Supreme Court justice derogatorily referring to India’s unemployed youth as “cockroaches.”
• Youth organizer Abhijit Dipke (from Boston) used social media to galvanize sentiment into an actual protest movement. [61:08] “A certain guy...His name is Abhijit Dipke...tweeted something on the lines of, what if all the cockroaches come together...he got incredible response.” — Biplab Kumar Das

The Trigger: Testing Corruption & State Violence

• Student anger exploded over medical entrance exam “paper leaks,” a sign of government malpractice and crippling stress for millions.
• July 28: Tens of thousands mobilized to Delhi demanding the Education Minister’s resignation. Police retaliated with extreme brutality: beatings, tear gas, even permanent injuries. [65:48] “Their brutalities were being live broadcasted and which infuriated even more people...” — Biplab Kumar Das

Victory & Government Concession

• For the first time in Modi’s tenure, a minister was forced to resign under outside pressure.
  [67:21] “This is the first time in Modi's tenure that a minister like this has been forced to resign...because of outside pressure...” — Emma Vigeland

Intersection With Global Protest & Gaza Solidarity

• Indian Gen Z identifies with youth movements globally, including Gaza; many referenced the genocide and showed visible solidarity at the protests. [70:51] “There were students who wore the kifiyeh...They were talking about the genocide. These are kids who are on Instagram all the time...the politics of the streets could be transformed.” — Biplab Kumar Das

Notable Quote

[73:15] “The politics of the streets is what could give hope to people across the country.” — Biplab Kumar Das

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Memorable/Cutting Quotes

• [29:22] “People are tired of being told, don't worry, we're going to put a different color of lipstick on the pig this time, and that's going to win back voters—instead of actually addressing the pig, if you will.” — David Hogg
• [34:18] “There was a report that they wrote...There is literally it's annotated as well. There is not even a conclusion that's included in it...Ken, you did this to yourself.” — David Hogg
• [35:00] Emma: “It's just amazing to me that you would begin this ... fact finding mission to understand how we got to this moment and then abandon it because, I don't know, the facts are a little bit inconvenient for what leadership wants out there.”

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Additional Notables & Humor

• On Gendered Health Myths:
  [22:44] “Just get some sun on your taint.” — Unidentified Co-host
  Joking about wellness trends and misinformation that thrive amid inadequate public health infrastructure.

• Gen Z Political Shift:
  [46:34] Hogg on the "vacuum" being filled by progressive leaders as the old guard literally dies in office, while the right criticizes his age.

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Segment Timestamps

• 04:38: Start of public health/Trump/Fauci segment
• 26:26: David Hogg interview (DNC dysfunction)
• 56:53: Biplab Kumar Das on India’s Cockroach Protests

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For Further Exploration

• Leaders We Deserve: https://leaderswedeserve.com/
• Biplab Kumar Das, Dropsite News: India’s Cockroach Protests End as Modi Government Bows to Demands
• Majority Report YouTube Channel (for referenced clips and expanded discussions)

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This episode offers a sweeping, irreverent, and insightful look at the failures of elite liberal institutions at home and the transformative possibilities of youth-led mobilizations abroad. The hosts blend political analysis with biting humor and real movement reporting, making the case for a new progressive generation ready to inherit the stage as the establishment implodes.

Transcript

[Emma Vigeland]

It is Wednesday, July 29, 2026. My name is Emma Vigeland in for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, David Hogg, former Democratic National Committee Vice Chair and President of Leaders We Deserve will be with us to give us an inside look at the debt and dysfunction at the dnc. And later in the show, Biplap Kumar Das will join us to discuss India's Gen Z protest movement bringing Modi to Heal. Also on the program, Republicans have hauled Dr. Anthony Fauci in for a Senate hearing where he pled the fifth and got berated. Trump's Iran war continues to spiral. Iran launched missiles at a US base in Jordan, the first time since Trump backed off over the weekend. Europe expresses strong disinterest in heeding the US's call to help patrol the Strait of Hormuz. You're back to freedom fries. Trump met with Netanyahu and Zelensky after Lindsey Graham's funeral yesterday. Government data reveals that prices for food purchased for your home have risen by 33% since 2019. That is not the typical rate of increase. Keeping up with inflation. A vote on Todd Blanche's Attorney General nomination may be postponed. Republicans are unsure if they have the votes due to, you know, that anti weaponization slush fund settlement agreement that they had to walk back. The Senate did vote to confirm Jay Clayton as dni. However, federal disclosures show that data center lobbyists have more than doubled since this time last year. Wonder why that is. Trump implements a new rule that could send hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers directly to into deportation proceedings without any due process. There are around 1.4 million pending asylum seekers in this country. This would impact around a third. Ohio's Republican governor calls Trump's deportations of Haitian migrants a mistake, psyching local businesses upset about their workforce being decimated. And lastly, the administration also is ending billions of dollars in subsidies that help stabilize premiums for Medicare drug plans. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show, everybody. It is hump day. Hello.

[David Hogg]

Hello.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sam will be back on Friday. We've got a great show for you tomorrow. Gonna preview that. An in studio guest that's gonna just knock your socks off. Hopefully they don't cancel at the last minute.

[David Hogg]

Knock on one.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

Hopefully.

[Matt Leck]

You like sisters of recently deceased senators?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Co-host 2]

What?

[David Hogg]

Darlene.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

Darlene, get your hand in here.

[Emma Vigeland]

Darlene. I can't believe that her name is Darlene. I mean, straight out of Steel Magnolias. You may notice that the quality of my camera looks good today, and it's because Matt Leck might be a genius. Let's all give a round of applause for Matt Leck, who seems to have figured out the situation with the cameras. Golf clap. Golf clap.

[Matt Leck]

Yeah, let us know how we're looking and sounding today in the chat. Hopefully there's no downstream effects that I haven't thought through yet of update to the tech that I did last last night. But yeah, it should be a little bit clear and we shouldn't have any drops in, say, video quality of people that are in studio with us.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Matt Leck]

Like Emma, like the hosts.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. Which is a bit important. Kind of important. Thanks to Matt for fixing that. Let's start here. So, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the former head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who became the villain of the Republicans and of conservatives and the Maha movement during the COVID 19 pandemic because he was in the administration trying to do basic public health. And Republicans were jumping on the anti vax train and as well were mostly concerned with the idea that workers wouldn't be putting their health on the line to support business owners and capitalism. And. And so they made it into a culture war issue that a lot of more conspiratorial people have jumped onto. And it was fertile ground because our public health system is so poor that people only find a feeling of agency and control in their essential, essentially individualized health choices, which can range from not, you know, taking certain supplements, taking certain vitamins, looking things up on the Internet to make your child or you healthier, which can lead you down rabbit holes, and it can also lead you to being essentially an anti vaxxer.

[Matt Leck]

It turned what should have been a moment for Americans to collectively come together on this government's responsibility towards everyone's health just publicly. And it turned it into one of distrust of government and conspiracizing, which they love.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hey, absolutely.

[Matt Leck]

There's no demand for, like, Pfizer or any of these companies to make these vaccines widely available. Instead, treat them like intellectual property.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly. And they would love the idea that any kind of understanding that our health is interconnected and that we should have a public health care system in is dispersed and made less relevant by conspiracism, because then you can't have a mass mobilization for a movement like Medicare for All, for example. And that's what we need to be combating. From the start of this hearing, Fauci invoked the Fifth Amendment. Here is the him doing so. Senator Rand Paul heads the committee where he's testifying, the U.S. senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee, because naturally, this is all based on their obsession with blaming China for the pandemic as opposed to, you know, say, like it being worsened in this country because the President of the United States said it may be a good idea to inject bleach into your body. But here is the beginning of that. These opening statements when Fauci pleads the Fifth.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

This, this video I skipped. The first minute of this is him going through his resume and his whole career and it picks up to where he's now getting to Rand Paul.

[Unidentified Co-host 2]

However, given Senator Paul's obvious obsession with calling for my prosecution, his repeated slanderous comments about me, and recently his publicly releasing my unredacted personal diary aimed at embarrassing and intimidating me, the only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is calling me before this committee is to get me to say something, anything that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that I end up in his words, quote, behind bars, unquote. Any reasonable person who has followed his unhinged obsession with me would readily come to the same conclusion. Therefore, although it pains me to do so because of the respect I have for the legislative branch of government and my decades long record of cooperating with Congress, under the advice of my attorneys, I will invoke my right under the fifth amendment of the Constitution to refrain from answering your questions. Thank you.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

We will.

[Emma Vigeland]

Now, Rand Paul then goes on to ask him a bunch of questions. You know, Fauci saved probably thousands of lives, if not millions of lives. Of the people targeted in Trump 2.0 by this administration, he's one of the most sympathetic. Like, you know, I'm not somebody that thinks James Comey is deserving of our, our sympathy, but Fauci was a lifelong public servant. And you know, there at the beginning of the pandemic, there are things that you get wrong. Like we didn't know initially how it was transmitted. Things like gloves were not necessary. And then we knew the true nature of the virus it came to be. And so the guidance wasn't on point when you look at it it now years later. But what the. It evolved with the information that we received about COVID 19. And when you compare it to this, you remember Peter Navarro. This is the guy that started off as a trade adviser to Trump and then he suddenly took on this huge role in Covid in, in early 2020. But this was the primary Advocate for hydroxychloroquine in the administration. And he and Fauci were battling back and forth. When I say that Fauci saved thousands, if not millions of lives, I mean that they could have been Trump could have been listening to a guy like this who still is quadrupling down on hydroxychloroquine in the year of our Lord 2026.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

This stuff with science. Science, Jasmine, I want to emphasize, tells us now. Works. He was saying didn't work. I had a million doses of hydroxychloroquine in warehouses.

[Dr. Peter Hotez]

Sure you did.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Defense policy coordinator for the DPA that I was trying to distribute to hospitals. And he got the FDA to stop me from doing that. Thousands of people could be here in this country right now alive if I had been able to distribute that, take that to the bank. That's what the science says.

[David Hogg]

Okay.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'm sure we'll be hearing a lot about that. Okay, saying that on C span. What do you mean moving on from that? Hydroxychloroquine. There have been large scale randomized studies that looked into this very thing. Do you think that the big pharma that they rail against that also produces hydroxychloroquine wouldn't have been really excited to sell this product that they didn't even need to spend all of this money on research and development for an MRNA vaccine that, that they could have just handed out hydroxychloroquine and people could have taken it prophylactically and they could have made hand over fist without that other

[Matt Leck]

investment back to work. Which is the real.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly. That's why they were pushing hydroxychloroquine at the time, saying you can take this as a preventative measure. And then they did these large scale trials and found that it did not have any efficacy. And the FDA had to backtrack on that at this point.

[Matt Leck]

And all the anti vaxxers moved on to ivermectin. It's weird even talking about hydroxychloroquine anymore. That's the old version.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, I mean, Navarro feels wronged. Feels like he could have been the savior. And isn't that what's important here, Matt?

[Matt Leck]

And again, that's the framing, right? It's a government bureaucrat that got in the way of the life saving pharmaceutical product that could have saved you if the bureaucrat just allowed it. But really this was about getting people back to work as fast as possible. And these sorts of fake ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, weren't actually suitable to that purpose.

[Emma Vigeland]

And we should put this all in the context that these folks are back in power, they feel emboldened, and we're feeling the ramifications of the Trump administration's approach to public health and disease. Currently we are in the midst of two major outbreaks in the United States. This is the cyclospora outbreak that you're hearing about on the news a lot. The diarrhea parasite. Essentially, it's been linked to iceberg lettuce and there have been now at least 11,000 confirmed or suspected cases in the country. Forty states are reporting it, so an overwhelming majority, and it can result in hospitalization for that kind of diarrhea. It's a really serious issue. And there's this program within the CDC called FoodNet. When Trump came in with Doge and all of that and this new administration, FoodNet, which was a program in under the CDC that partnered with state health departments to track some of this stuff, scaled back its mandate essentially to look at pathogens. They moved. There were eight pathogens that FoodNet was tracking with these state health departments and they reduced that to just two. So it's only E. Coli and Salmonella, meaning Cyclospora should have been and would have been if Trump just kept this in place being monitored by foodnet. They made it voluntary. And then you have this. This is reporting from Wired about the cyclospora lab. If we could put this up here. As cases of the diarrhea causing parasite Cyclospora rise across the U.S. former employees of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say the country's response is being severely hampered by personnel cuts at the agency. Amid mass government layoffs last year implemented by President Donald Trump and his so called government Department of Government Efficien, the CDC lab that responds to outbreaks of the parasite Cyclospora was downsized from 11 people to just three, according to Joel Barrett, a molecular parasitologist and associate professor at Emory University School of Medicine, who previously led the team. So you see, those are two reductions that I just mentioned. They reduced the guidance in terms of pathogens that were monitored in conjunction with state health departments. And then they also just drastically reduced the workforce that was responsible for these kinds of outbreaks. And specifically for cyclospora, it was downsized from 11 people to just three. Based on simple math, these outbreak responses, which required rapid, timely responses, are going to be greatly diminished. If we could just put this back up on, on the screen here, he tells Wired. Cyclospora is just one piece. It's making the news right now. But there are other, more dangerous pathogens than cyclospora. He mentions about how he left the CDC voluntarily because of the purges and, you know, maintaining your benefits. Wired reported in October that the CDC reduced its total Workforce by about 3,000 employees, roughly a quarter of the agency since January 2025. That number includes layoffs as well as those who accepted the Trump administration's buyout program. The estimate was compiled by the American Federation of government employees local to 883, which represents CDC workers. And there's also, we didn't even there's also this Ebola outbreak, right? Like Sam has been debated, Jillian Michaels, on, on the cuts to USAID and those impacts. But like in the DRC right now, there are, there's an outbreak there of Ebola that we have to monitor. And then we turn to measles because the US has already lapped the previous record since 2000 or since it was essentially measles was declared eliminated from the United States. 2025 was a record for measles cases. And right now we're already beating that record in the year 2026. Here's Dr. Peter Hotez speaking to CNN about what the status of measles cases are in the United States and how the US has lost its elimination status, which it declared in 2000, essentially saying that measles has been eliminated from the United States. And so, like international public health groups have to downgrade the United States because of how many measles cases there are winning.

[Dr. Peter Hotez]

Basically, measles is back. We've lost our elimination status. And that is the first domino to fall because pertussis, whooping cough is falling right behind. Those numbers are also huge in terms of coming back. And of course, the worry is that polio could return. Generally, you know, it's maybe 100 cases or so a year. Then last year we hit over 2000 for the first time in decades. And now we're already at that just halfway through the year. It's happening for the simple reason that not enough parents are vaccinating their kids. They're getting the wrong message that measles is not a bad illness. They Forget how that 10, 20% of kids require hospitalization with measles. We've had two measles deaths last year among perfectly well kids who unfortunately, the parents made the decision not to vaccinate them.

[David Hogg]

So measles at risk of losing its

[Emma Vigeland]

elimination status here in the United States, what's the significance of that.

[Dr. Peter Hotez]

It means that hospitalizations are going to be a new normal for measles. And it's going to mean that parents, you know, who are responsible are going to have to rethink the safety of their kids in schools. And I'm also worried about parents, especially new parents with kids with infants not yet old enough to be vaccinated. You know, what do you do with a five month old, a six month old who's still six months away from getting a measles for their first dose of MMR vaccine?

[Emma Vigeland]

It's horrifying. So, and this is kind of promulgating in communities where there are low vaccination rates, perhaps some vaccine skepticism, scientific skepticism. And measles is deadly.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

Like when he says they're getting the wrong message about measles. RFK Jr. Famously said that when he had measles, it was a great weekend of watching TV and all you need is chicken soup and vitamin A. I

[Emma Vigeland]

didn't even know that. Yeah, it kills children. Children are dying and even if they don't die from it, it impacts children's immune system for the rest of their lives. Measles, it's incredibly contagious and dangerous. But we want to play around with this now.

[Matt Leck]

Three kids died last year.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, it's it. This war on public health here needs to be met with a response that transforms our public health care system so that these kinds of charlatans are not able to make a buck out of this. I mean, there's a whole industry right now that's getting very rich that RFK and his acolytes are connected to, of alternative medicine with that, that is exploiting people who desperately want some sort of control over their health care. Like the anxiety that moms feel about what's going into their kids bodies is something that the Democrats should not ignore. It's a very real thing. But it's not because, you know, you're not just taking the right vitamins or whatever or prophylactic hydroxychloroquine. It's because nobody can afford to go see a doctor. And so they have to fill the gaps with what they're looking up on Google or hearing from RFK Jr. And this impacts the rest of us.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

I have a shitload of anxieties about medicines. But what appeases it is more regulation, right?

[Emma Vigeland]

Not less. And what, what also probably appeases it or makes it easier for you is the fact that you get, you have health care through the va, right? Like, yes. And so it takes that anxiety away about emergencies that can result in, you know, poor decision making without the, the proper information that's available to people. It's not just an information issue. You know, I really do wish that the Democrats nationally would remove like would. Would make it less about how people need to be educated on this issue. This is systemic. It, it's. It's an. The education isn't going to take. The adhesive isn't going to take if. If people aren't primed for it.

[Matt Leck]

You need to be empowered through the state.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Matt Leck]

On this stuff.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigeland]

And what's ironic about all of this is that's what true freedom about your health care would be. To not worry about going into medical debt that could destroy all of your savings if you have one adverse health event.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

Just get some sun on your taint.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right, I forgot.

[Matt Leck]

Yeah. I haven't done that in a while.

[Emma Vigeland]

I know.

[Matt Leck]

That's why I might.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's why you've been getting the sniffles. Not enough taint. Tanning. What's the women's equivalent of that? I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

They don't look into women's.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, that's right.

[Matt Leck]

Get around to that in about 40 years.

[Dr. Peter Hotez]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[David Hogg]

Let's not worry about Ed and baldness.

[Emma Vigeland]

Women's health care. Let's do a trial with 15 different women or 15 different men to study, you know, periods or something. In a moment, you will hear our conversation with David Hogg. Recorded that an hour or two ago. Great conversation about his inside knowledge about the DNC's dysfunction. But first, a word from one of our favorite sponsors. Did you know Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers, including myself, including Sam Cedar. They have all the plants that your home needs or your yard, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, and houseplants, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. It's like your local nursery, but anywhere. You live with more plants than you'll find anywhere. And unlike your local nursery, it ships right to your door. So you don't have to go to the nursery and pick it up there. And maybe you don't have a car and walk home in the city like I do. It gets delivered right to your door. And you also don't have to do the guesswork that would be included. That would be a part of going to somewhere, you know, in your area where they may not have exactly what you're looking for. Because Fast Growing Trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate, space and lifestyle. Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get your dream yard. Just click, order, grow and get healthy, thriving plants delivered to your door. Their alive and thrive guarantee promises that your plants arrive happy and healthy. No green thumb required, just quality plants that you can count on. Plus get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to take care of them every step of the way. And that was what was helpful for me too, because I have to get a houseplant that isn't going to be toxic to the cats. Want to make sure that it's some it can be left alone for a while and I have don't have to worry about it because I'm not great with that stuff. I'm not a green, I'm not somebody with a green thumb, but that's Growing Trees takes out all of those questions. Right now. They have great deals on planting essentials, up to half off on select plants. And Our audience gets 20% off your first purchase when using the Code Majority at checkout. That's an additional 20% off better plants and better growing at fast growingtrees.com using the code majority at checkout fast growingtrees.com code majority now is the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use Majority to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. We will put a link down below in the video and episode descriptions. And at Majority FM get 20% off your first purchase. FastGrowingTrees.com Majority Quick Break and when we come back, you'll hear my conversation with David Hogg. We are back and we are joined now by David Hogg, former Democratic National Committee Vice Chair and President of Leaders. We deserve David, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

[David Hogg]

Thanks so much for having me on.

[Emma Vigeland]

Of course. Happy to have you on. And I want to dive into the dysfunction at the DNC and the reporting on that. But before we do that, I think it might be helpful for people to get a refresher on what the Democratic National Committee even is right. Like what is the DNC compared to, say, the dscc, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee currently headed by Kirsten Gillibrand, or the dccc, the Democratic Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee as well. What what's the DNC specific function?

[David Hogg]

Well, I'm really glad that you asked this question because I think there, you know, there's plenty of fair criticisms of the dnc, but I actually think a lot of people bundle all of those groups together. So it's a, it's a great question to ask. To start out, you have the DNC that really is the presidential campaign in waiting. They also help manage state, Democratic, state and territorial Democratic parties. And they help to obviously have the platform of the Democratic Party, the rules of the presidential debate schedule, and super importantly and relevantly the presidential primary. And then you have them give some money obviously to state parties. Occasionally they'll give it to other committees like the DCCC or the dscc. Like you mentioned, the DCCC is number one goal, is winning back a House majority for Democrats. So they're the group that many House Democrats will pay dues into on the order of several hundred thousand to millions of dollars to help win back the House majority. And then you have the dscc, which is just like the DCCC but for winning back a Senate majority for Democrats, where they will work directly. Both the DCCC and the DSCC work directly with candidates, talking to them, advising them, and not always, but most of the time are investing in red to blue races that are critical to us flipping key states and key House districts in order to win back those majorities. So if you, if you want to think about it this way, the DNC is really around. It's just like in some ways the D trip or the dsec, but for the presidential. They're supposed to be the campaign in waiting. And then you have the other committees that focus on the House and Senate.

[Emma Vigeland]

Although I will say, to be fair, as you know, you accurately lay out all of the differences, they are still all three right now plagued by the same kind of malaise where voters don't have trust in any of these institutions within the Democratic Party. And individual candidates are doing well in terms of fundraising with small dollar contributors. But the candidates that the DSCC and the DCCC have endorsed have not had a hit rate like they had previously. The more populous candidates are challenging them effectively and people seem to have more trust in individual Democrats than they do in any of the Democratic institutions.

[David Hogg]

I mean, to be honest with you, can you really blame them after they.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'm not blaming them at all.

[David Hogg]

Yeah, right after we saw a horrific presidential election where we elected Donald Trump for the second time and the establishment's response was, at least on the DNC's front, that they're going to do an autopsy, that then they couldn't even include any of the actual issues that decided the election and then they couldn't even include a conclusion. People are tired of being told, don't worry, we're going to put a different color of lipstick on the pig this time, and that's going to win back voters instead of actually addressing the pig, if you will.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. Can you talk about that? I mean, we covered this maybe a month or so ago. Ken Martin, the embattled current leader of the Democratic National Committee, was on Pod Save America and was repeatedly questioned by Jon Favreau about his leadership. And the autopsy that was supposed to come out about how the Democrats lost once again to Donald Trump. Eventually they released it and it seemed to raise more questions than answers. What happened there, David?

[David Hogg]

Well, to be honest with you, I can only speculate as to what happened because I was at the DNC for a couple of months and then I obviously started talking about the necessity of bringing in fresh blood, which then resulted in them, I would argue, conveniently finding an issue with the election kicking out

[Emma Vigeland]

fresh blood because you suggested fresh blood. That makes sense pretty much.

[David Hogg]

Anyways, I think what happened is that Ken Martin ran for DNC chair because for people that. I think there's a lot of people that don't understand how that process works either. There's 450 DNC members that are from different state parties, state party chairs, etc. That vote on who the DNC chair is. And when Ken was running for that position, one of the main things he ran on was releasing an autopsy that would hopefully address some of the reasons why people are increasingly not interested in supporting these institutional groups like the DNC to offer any form of accountability. So at the dnc, in our first meeting, a major part of what we were talking about was what is going to go into this autopsy. And I remember bringing up in this meeting and saying, I know a lot of. And this was with all the officers, including Ken, right? Said, I know a lot of you guys probably don't want to talk about this, but if you're going to talk about why we lost young voters, you have to talk about Gaza. You have to talk about inflation. And I remember on the Gaza part in particular, to my surprise, the officers were like, yeah, no, no, no, no, we absolutely do want to talk about that. We need to talk about that. It's really important and we shouldn't shy away from it. And then Ken's friend Paul Rivera, who he hired to do this job, I think what happened is he was doing such a terrible job of it that Ken just told him, stop, this isn't working, it's not worth your time. Just stop working on it entirely.

[Dr. Peter Hotez]

And.

[David Hogg]

And then Ken was pressured on doing the thing that he actually ran on doing, which was releasing the autopsy and then it ended up being released where none of the issues that actually decided the election were talked about, whether it was Gaza, inflation or Joe Biden's age. It was just a bunch of internal mechanics and zero conversation around the issues. And also it couldn't even include a conclusion to begin with. I think that's what really happened there. And it's, it's emblematic of broader challenges that Ken has had in his leadership of the institution. We're now at a position where the RNC has over $100 million on hand and the DNC has $2 million in debt. 18 months into Ken's term. Your job as a chair of the DNC is to raise money. And now we're seeing not only can he not raise money and he's been able to continue to not raise money, he's also throwing his phone at staff, which is certainly not going to help morale. And ultimately what we need to focus on is what are we actually doing to move forward. Because I think part of what's happening here is a lot of these institutions have focused on just purely looking at fundraising. That's all that really matters to them. A lot of the time is for candidates like who they take seriously, who can raise money, and sometimes that can be a good indicator, but it doesn't really take into account candidate quality. I think a lot of the time we could win races if we had higher quality candidates, even if they didn't come from backgrounds where they had tons of wealthy friends that they could raise money from if they actually presented a vision that people actually believe in. Because imagine if we didn't have to spend nearly as much money gaslighting voters with corporate PAC money that were there for their interests and instead actually were there for their interests.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's a novel concept, David. And I want to talk about the debt that the DNC is in that you spoke about there, comparing it as well to the Republican war chest. But I just want to talk about, ask you a follow up about this autopsy. That's new information to me essentially that it, it read as incomplete. And that's because it was incomplete. But Martin went on Podcast of America and claimed that there the report wasn't even commissioned and that it was done for free, for example. Like that was what the implication was, if I'm remembering correctly. Is that the case?

[David Hogg]

Well, there was a report that they wrote that they did release and you can go out there and read it. There is literally it's annotated as well. And you can see there is not even a conclusion that's included in it. And when it came out, Ken was like, you know, this, I'm not really proud of this, but here you go. I'm going to put it out there because everybody's telling me that I actually need to come through on the promise that I ran on doing in the first place, God forbid, and act like it's some huge problem when it's like, Ken, you did this to yourself. You put yourself in this position. You ran on releasing an autopsy that nobody forced you to do, but this was the main thing that you ran on and you haven't been able to do it. And then he released it and it didn't even include a conclusion. People can go out there and read it. It's. It's freely available.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, it's just amazing to me that you would begin this and attempt at a fact finding mission to understand how we got to this moment and then abandon it because, I don't know, the facts are a little bit inconvenient for what leadership wants out there. This is not. You have to be able to look at the game tape from the loss from last week or you're not going to be able to adjust in the future. This is just basic politics stuff. But the fact that their resources are so strained. I wanted to ask you about that more because, you know, back in the 08 days, right, there was a lot of criticism about Obama and Obama for America, his organization that didn't really, after he won in the 2008 election, fold the campaign infrastructure into the DNC. He had his kind of own separate entity that a lot of critics said was sapping resources away from the Democratic National Committee and that it was very focused around kind of Obama and his cadre of consultants. And, and I remember that Hillary Clinton in 2016 was in part paying the DNC's bills as well, like they were in financial straits in 2016. How much of this, and this also contributed to the weakening of state parties across the country? How much of this is still in the shadow of Obama for America, the party's inability on a national level to raise this money?

[David Hogg]

To be honest with you, there are many people inside of the DNC that will say exactly what you just said and blame everything on Obama and say he's the reason why the DNC is in this position in the first place. Look, that is over a decade ago at this point. Even if we were saying, you know, like that was still a problem going all the way up to 2016. That's over a decade ago. This is a problem that does not, regardless of how many problems that created for the DNC, Obama has not been president since 2016. It's been a decade. And that should not result in them having $2 million in debt. Any basic level of competence would result in them not being in this position that they are in right now. And I think what the bigger problem is and why, like I think it's important to think about, well, why did Obama feel it was necessary to organize outside the DNC's infrastructure and outside of state parties? Let's remember he ran in some ways as an anti establishment candidate, right? And he naturally these institutions don't really want to change. They want to keep everything as similar as possible to keep the same people in their positions of power, even if it is collectively detrimental to the future of those institutions. And I think, I would presume when Obama saw that, granted I was 8 years old in 2008 to take this as a grain of salt, that when he saw that, he thought, you know what, instead of trying to go and clear House and do all the dealing with all the DNC members and everything like that, we're just going to go and build our own thing. And this is the problem with institutions that are 178 years old. Naturally they do not really want to change. And there's a lot of incentives internally to try to keep them the same even if it is collectively detrimental. And that's the bigger problem. In D.C. we have a system where there is literally hundreds of millions and billions of dollars on the line that is predicated on the idea of the political consultant industrial complex of keeping everything the same so that people can keep taking corporate money, keep getting rich as consultants off their TV buys and everything like that, instead of actually addressing why do we need to spend so much money on these campaigns to begin with. And the answer to that is because people, we have to spend a lot of money gaslighting people as a party because increasingly we are not voting in their interests. And I've had conversations like this with people inside of the establishment before where I've said they've had issues with our candidates at leaders we deserve because they reject corporate PAC money. And they say, well you don't understand, like sometimes candidates just need to take that corporate PAC money. And my response to that is, don't you think maybe if we didn't vote for such bad policies and we were able to actually say what we truly believed in, regardless of what these special interests Think that maybe we wouldn't need as much money to gaslight the American people to believe that we're for them and that their lives are increasingly getting better when every single statistic shows us that that is not the case.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, there's so much there. One you mentioned. Well, the, this corporate PAC money too. There's a question also of how like the Democrats decide to deploy resources in primaries to keep the left out and the Republicans sit on their war chests and we'll get to that in a second. But you touched on something that I have been railing about for months at this point, which is the consultant class being overrepresented in our press to go after campaigns that have an infrastructure that is anathema to their ability to make money where they are. It's a canvassing type campaign. It's a campaign that's built on volunteer work. It's campaigns that aren't taking corporate PAC money that don't have the ability, you know, to commission these, these consultants and they don't get their big digital and TV commissions right where that is where they make their money. Can you shed some light on the infrastructure of consulting within the Democratic Party? And why say like an Abdullah Sayed campaign or you know, other campaigns that are more focused on grassroots organizing have caused them to kind of freak out and they go on cable news and I'm like, this person's a consultant and they're not disclosing that they're crapping all over this leftist campaign, which would be if this kind of campaigning took over the party, they would be made irrelevant, would they not, David?

[David Hogg]

Well, I think there's always going to be some role so long as we don't have substantial campaign finance reform. And even in the world that we do, there will be some level of consultants that are involved just because of the natural incentives that are created by campaigns where they're very boom and bust where people are. Then it's a rough life cycle for and I think it's a problem, frankly that the Democratic Party should work on in the long term of how do we build sustainable infrastructure so that people are not burning themselves out working on these campaigns and then working for nine months and then not having a job for six to nine months after that and going through that cycle because you create an incentive where people naturally are just going to want to be become part of that consultancy system once they get a certain level of seniority. And that advice can be useful. But I think the bigger problem is especially lower on the ballot when candidates are taken advantage of and they don't know that because it's their first time running because our party doesn't provide the infrastructure to them to say, hey, you know, here's standard rates of like what is generally reasonable for a consultant to be paid if you're going to hire somebody that's not, you know, for example, there is a. And this is part of why what we do at Leaders We Deserve is so important. We have, I like to call ourselves like anti consultants in some ways and that we both give you advice and we will give you money and we're not incentivized to tell you to keep spending money on your campaign or keep spending money on TV ads if your campaign is going nowhere. Because we're investing a substantial amount. And that enables us to be able to tell candidates like one of them who called us recently, not one that we're working with, but one that we're considering working with next election cycle who's just getting set up, he said, hey, there's this consultant who called me that wants to charge me like a commission of 40% of all the money that I raised. That's pretty unreasonable, right? And we were able to say, yeah, don't sign that contract. Whereas with other consultants they may just be like, yeah, you know, whatever, it's fine, I'm going to make my cut. And it doesn't really matter if that makes sense.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes, it makes total sense. It's also just, I'm just putting a fine point on that. The way that somebody can campaign can literally make a consultant less money. Right. That's just we are we just hammering that I think is important because it's. People can have some media literacy when they're hearing a talking head say something, you know, very critical of a left wing campaign and then you realize what the underlying infrastructure is. So I appreciate you fleshing that out a bit. Let's get back to the debt here. The DNC's $2 million in debt. Earlier this week, Notice reported that the Democratic National Committee was forced to put its physical headquarters up as collateral because they needed a $15 million line of credit so that they could work on investing in the elections. And that means that they are $2 million in debt. In addition to the New York Times piece that showed Ken Martin throwing his phone in a fit of anger, his belief that he's a certain dead kind of a dead man walking within the organization. Just talk a bit about the dead and the dysfunction generally, which has spilled over into the press recently.

[David Hogg]

I mean, it's an incredibly dysfunctional organization and the fact that we're having to put the building up as collateral is not a product just of, it's not a product just of the, the overall environment. Right. It's important to remember Republicans are not popular right now. That is, it's not like everybody loves them. And that's why people are not giving money to the DNC or other parts of the Democratic establishment. It's because the Democratic establishment lacks two things more than anything else. Courage and a vision for what to do. That is anything other than saying, well, we're not Republicans. We've done that for the past 10 years. We got to show people who we actually are. And I think the problem is in order for us to actually be able to secure a majority, it's going to require our political party to embrace candidates that don't make donors happy a lot of the time or don't make special interests happy that they are not fans of that those consultants are directly, their livelihoods are directly threatened by, if they're not able to raise as much campaign cash for these candidates. Like Zoran, for example. Where I've seen this up close and personal, where I, you know, I've had, I saw major donors go out there and say to us who had supported us previously, you know, I, we need to go and win young back when young people back, right? And then we go and support Zoran. We spend $300,000 supporting him in his primary and I get a call from that same major donor that's like, yeah, I'm not going to give you, you know, this six figures because I don't agree with your candidates anymore. Even though Zoron got three times the voter turnout of 18 to 24 year olds. But the reason I was able to tell that donor to take a hike is because 80% of our money at Leaders We Deserve comes from people that give less than $1,000 to the organization that enables us to be able to put our principles first. And it's because we have that grassroots support, because we have a vision for the future of this party. And what Democrats are doing over and over again is, is engaging in a race to the bottom where they hope that Republicans screw over the American people so much that people come back to us begging for any alternative. That's not leadership. That's a disaster. That's what we're doing right now. It's a race to the bottom and we need a real vision for the future of this country. And thankfully, while the establishment is in debt at Leaders we deserve, we're in the black. And the progressive movement is in the black. We are winning. We are increasingly winning over and over and over again. And I think that's why so many of these consultants and other people are freaking out is because they know the gig is up. They like we are. We have real infrastructure. This isn't 2016, right, where it's only just Bernie Sanders movement. We have shows like yours. We have new media. We have new candidates. We have a generation that has been inspired by Bernie Sanders, that has been inspired by a lot of progressive leaders that are rising up and are now old enough to run for office and say, you know what? We're not going to continue doing things the same way anymore in the establishment has been so addicted to their. To enabling geriatric leaders and continuing to have them there for decades that they're literally dying in power. And they don't know what to do about it because that vacuum is being filled by progressive leaders.

[Emma Vigeland]

Just a few more questions before I let you go, David. You know the. What's his name? Carville, right? James Carville. Your old friend came out and said that you should lead the dnc, which is quite astonishing given the fact that you guys have sparred a lot. Quite a lot. What do you make of that? I mean, even Carville's recognizing that there needs to be a change, huh?

[David Hogg]

I mean, Emma, think about it this way. Let me. Let me put it a different way. Carville, less than a year ago, was calling me a twerp for engaging in primaries and challenging people that are dying in power and asleep. The real Democrats.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'm sure that really hit. Hit you in the heart, twerp. That's just absolutely devastating.

[David Hogg]

Yeah, it really was crushing. But less than a year later, the DNC is such a mess that he's saying that I should be the person leading it. And there are a lot of things that can. That. That James Carville and I disagree on, including the idea that I should be chair of the dnc. I do not think that I should be. And also I think that it's pretty clear what the members of the DNC think of me and what, you know, how they don't really want to hear what I have to say. I tried to change it from within, and now we're doing it on the outside with leaders we deserve to help elect that next generation. But the fact that James Carville was able to go from twerp to saying somebody who is a twerp should now be the chair of the DNC in less than a year is a testament to how bad things are right now.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, yeah, it really is an actual last question here. The Democratic Party primary calendar that is right now being hotly debated. Biden and his association with, like, frankly, a very elderly and ineffective Southern Democratic Party machine pushed South Carolina to the front of the primary calendar also as a way to foreclose any debate about him being the nominee. And we all saw how that worked out. And now Nevada is also trying to jockey as well to be the first state in the process, instead of. Instead of Iowa and New Hampshire, which are two very white states that, you know, like Buttigieg did quite well in Iowa for, you know, Bernie and him got close to winning that state last time, and he ended up completely flaming out after that. So I understand the impulse to pick a state that is more representative of the diversity in the coalition. But what do you make of this fight? Like, what is this fight really about, Nevada versus South Carolina in the primary calendar?

[David Hogg]

You know, I think that there's some different sides of this, but I think ultimately what gets lost in that is that regardless of what the primary calendar is, we need to just run the best candidates that we can and figure out how to win. Because inevitably, we need to show that even if the establishment, for example, thinks that they. I think there are some. There are some people who believe that us picking South Carolina is a way of stomping down on progressives and making it harder for them to win. I think we need to figure out obviously how to win in the deeper self. We have great candidates like Justin Pearson who are doing great work in the South. We have candidates like Rural Roman in Georgia. We have candidates like Akbar Ali in Georgia. We have candidates all over the place that are progressives in the South. And time and time again, we see throughout American history that some of the most successful social movements and progressive movements that start in our country start in the crucible of so much injustice that happens across the south, especially with what we're seeing right now with redistricting that's happening. And I want to see somebody who can go out there and win regardless of what those states are based off of their vision and expanding the electorate and really exciting people. Because I don't think that just the primary calendar in and of. If the primary calendar in and of itself is totally determinative of who's going to end up being the nominee, I don't think that that's going to be the. There would be other reasons why somebody, as a progressive candidate doesn't succeed if it's Just because of the. If it's just because of the sequence of states that are in the primary calendar, I don't think a strong candidate is actually going to be that affected by it. And it speaks to the necessity of us making sure that as progressives, we feel the strongest candidate that we can for the Democratic primary.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, absolutely. And we've seen historically, even with Iowa and New Hampshire being first, that's not determinative of who the candidate ends up being. I guess my just one final question is, are you concerned at all that if South Carolina is the first primary date essentially for the presidential pick, that we're kind of retreating to the Biden infrastructure and Jamie Harrison's leadership and it being centered, centered down there, where they've really led us wrong in many ways.

[David Hogg]

You know, I think that this is going to be driven a lot more by the candidates, to be honest with you. Like Jaime Harrison is not chair of the DNC anymore. And sure, there, there is obviously across the Deep south, there's always like these bigger political machines that happen and everything, but there are going regardless of the sequence, like I said, of the states that are out there, I think it could say even more if we did win South Carolina, and it presents potentially a bigger challenge for progressives in some ways. But I think it could present a bigger opportunity if we believe, if the establishment and the media believe that the cards are stacked against us in that state and there is a progressive that goes and wins the primary there because things are going so bad and the establishment is going to do what they, what they have done, which is continue to fail over and over and over again in any. To do anything to stand up to Donald Trump in any form other than a strongly worded letter. I think that is going to help the power us to victory. But what I will say is the primaries that really do matter right now are some of the final ones that we have coming up across the country for 2026. Right. I want to make sure that people are not sleeping on a great candidate, a great progressive who's running named Patrick Roth up in Boston, who's running against one of the most conservative Democrats in Congress, Stephen lynch, who's voted to thank ICE and voted to give ICE billions of more dollars and then say, oh, no, no, this is so terrible after Americans are gunned down by the ICE agents that he is giving more funding to. Patrick's a voting rights attorney and he's a staunch progressive that we absolutely need to get more support behind. And there's not a whole lot of conversation about him right now. But we're doing everything we can to get him elected and defeat. Stephen lynch is an ultra conservative Democrat who, by the way, when he was at a protest talking when Stephen lynch was at a protest talking about what he's doing to fight back against Trump, somebody said you need to do more to fight back against him. Stephen Lynch's response in this video of this was to say, I'm the member of Congress. You're not the member of Congress. I am. If you want to make this decision, you run, but I'm the member of Congress. That was his response to a Democratic constituent saying, you need to do more to fight back against Donald Trump. That is the type of entitlement we need way less of in the Democratic Party. We're proud to be backing Patrick because of that. And more importantly and more and sooner we have Donovan McKinney, who's the first incumbent challenger that we endorsed in our primary efforts to challenge incumbents, who's running against one of the worst Democrats that we have in Congress, who's so bad that even his own fellow Democrats don't like him and are going on the record saying he won't be Mr. Asking who he is. His name is Sri Tandadar and we have to defeat him with Donovan McKinney, who is a staunch progressive leader. And then we also have my Vang, who's going to be running in November against Democrat Doris Matsui, who's been there between her and her late husband 47 years and has taken millions of dollars in corporate cash over and over and over again. And my can win that race. But to do all of that, we need people's support, obviously, Emma, because like I said, we don't back candidates just based off of what a donor wants us to do. We back candidates that younger people and people of all ages can really believe in. It can build a better Democratic Party. And my ask of people would be if they can please support our work at Leaders We Deserve because we rely pretty much entirely on small dollar contributions to support our work. And that enables us to have the independence to do what the establishment is needed to for a long time but is refused to, which is backing truly progressive candidates that will reject the influence of corporate PAC money and special interests in our elections. And if people want to support us, they can just go to leaderswe deserve.com

[Emma Vigeland]

and we will put a link to Leaders We Deserve down below wherever people are listening to or watching this. Yes, and I'm on the site now. I'm glad that you mentioned some candidates that are coming up. Donovan McKinney in Michigan, of course, as a leaders we deserve candidate. You mentioned Justin Pearson in Tennessee, which is also a primary. That's next week. That's not getting a ton of attention, Patrick, because it's not on the same day, it's on a Thursday. Patrick Roth as well in Massachusetts. And then of course you have these candidates in California, Villegas, Mai Vang as well who are going to be going up in the general election. But people can go to the website to check it out. David Hogg, really appreciate your time today. Thanks so much. And you can support leaders we deserve once again, link down below.

[David Hogg]

Thank you guys.

[Emma Vigeland]

Thanks. We are back and we are joined now by Biplav Kumar Das, investigative reporter, here to discuss his piece published by Dropsite News. India's Cockroach Protests End as Modi Government Bows to Demands Biplop, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

[Biplap Kumar Das]

Thank you, Emma, Big fan of the show and glad to be here.

[Emma Vigeland]

Glad to have you. And thank you so much for the kind words. Over the weekend, hundreds of thousands of protests cropped up all across India led by students calling themselves the Cockroach Movement. And they had success at pressuring Narendra Modi's government. But I want to back up for just a second before we get to these more recent developments. Could you give people a sense of where India's government is right now? Modi took, you know, a little bit of a hit in recent years in terms of his overall power in the government. Right. Like I believe in the last elections they were not as advantageous as the they anticipated. But still his grip on power, being in power for so long as well has, you know, he sustained himself in spite of some of those, those setbacks.

[Biplap Kumar Das]

Yeah, absolutely. So what has happened in India in recent years is that Narendra Modi, the prime minister has had absolutely consolidated power. Like and his Hindu nationalist party, which the Bharatiya Janta Party, the bjp, they are right wing Hindu nationalists and unabashed about it. Right. What you said is right. He has been in power since 2014 when he won in a wave election right here. Like he was really popular and he won a landslide majority in 2014. He won a landslide majority in 2019 again. But in 2024, because of public like, you know, dissatisfaction with how things were going, we can we saw that his numbers like went down. Like the number of seats that he got in India's parliament went down. He was able to form a government only through coalition. His party alone did not win a majority in 2024. But since then, what has happened is that he has doubled down his consolidation of power by being even more unabashed in terms of institutional capture, in terms of how elections are conducted in the country. And many states across India, like key states such as Bengal, which used to be a bastion of resistance against this politics, kind of switched over to the BJP earlier this year, in fact. And the problem with this is that what often goes unacknowledged globally is that although India is the largest democracy, is widely considered as the largest democracy in the world, we are seeing questions around how elections are conducted. Like there are increasing accusations of electoral malpractices and that accusations around that BJP and Modi's government are kind of tweaking, like there is immense gerrymandering happening in many states. And the fact that election commission might be compromised, which is a neutral institution which was widely trusted by India's public. So that's the context in which this current protest, which is widely now known as the cockroach protest in India, that kind of emerged.

[Dr. Peter Hotez]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigeland]

So that is a great recap to where we are at right now to give us context for where we're at right now. Then let's just turn to this weekend, this movement, newly formed cockroach junta party, which is playing on the bjp, the party that you just mentioned, the fascist Hindu nationalist or far right Hindu nationalist party party that Narendra Modi heads. So they're the CJP with the cockroach Shanta party. This is largely led by Gen Z. These are student protesters.

[Matt Leck]

What.

[Emma Vigeland]

How did this movement start and what happened over the weekend?

[Biplap Kumar Das]

Yeah. So first and foremost, again, like I have to mention that there is also public dissatisfaction. Right. There is high amount of unemployment. Data on unemployment is not available because the government is suppressing it. We have seen instances of them kind of trying to not reveal what the data is. So we don't even know often. But independent data suggests that unemployment rates are really high. So the youth is dissatisfied is like widely felt reporting from here. So how this came about was in May, the Chief justice of India, Surya Kant, in a Supreme Court hearing said something on the lines that a certain section of the youth of the country are like cockroaches. They are unemployed. Some of them freelance, some of them become activists. And they are only like, you know, filing for the right to information, which is like the FOIA version of like India. Right. The RTI, you know, they are always filing these RTIs wanting to know what's happening, but they don't actually have any job. So he said something on those lines. And then a certain guy who was sitting in Boston at the time, his name is Abhijit Dipke, he is from Boston. He graduated from Boston University and he was pursuing his postgrad masters there at the time, this is this year in May, he tweeted something on the lines of, what if all the cockroaches come together, right? And when he tweeted that, he got incredible response. Millions of people, like, you know, hundreds of thousands of people responded within like hours. And millions of people started like engaging with that tweet. And then he sent it on the form asking, like, you know, how about we make a cockroach janta party? Like, you know, as you mentioned, a play on bjp, right? And millions of people started supporting. He created a profile on Instagram and on Twitter on X. And within weeks, the Instagram profile kind of, you know, outnumbered the number of engagement that the BJP gets, right? The CJP's Instagram profile. So we kind of like, I was closing, I was back in New York at the time as well. But like, I was closely kind of like, you know, tracking this. And it was pretty interesting. But it was still. We were still wondering what would it lead to. So what happened next was around the same time the main issue around this protest, right, which is paper leaks. There was this medical entrance test that happens every year for admissions into medical schools in the country. Publicly owned medical schools, they're highly competitive. Millions of students appear for it, like every year. It's high pressure and there are only so many seats that are available. So the examination got leaked before the exams were due. So students who appeared for the examination, we're told that you will have to appear for it again. Which means that the entire ordeal of like this high pressure environment where you have to like, prepare for these exams, you have to repeat that entire ordeal, which means, you know, sustain, enduring mental stress and anxiety for these young kids who are just, you know, 16, 17, just out of high school, right? They're preparing to go to med school. And they've been preparing for this moment for the last two, three years perhaps. So the CJP took up that issue and began their protest around June, in fact. But it sought traction over the last couple of weeks because of. Because few activists, few leaders of this movement, like, went on a hunger strike, number one. And then number two, on July 28, which was last Monday, the CJP leaders, they called for a nationwide, they called for a march to the Parliament. And they said that everyone, you come here will march. The parliament will demand one thing which is the resignation of the education minister because he's responsible for the leaks of this med school entrance test. Right. And this was not the only paper leak by the way. There have been rampant like you know, instances of paper leak which is really a sign of the government not being able to assure that, you know, fair examinations happen and the kids get their fair share of their hard work. Right. So July 20th is on last Monday when the march to parliament was called. Thousands of tens of thousands of students flew in to Delhi. And the police backlash was incredibly like harsh and it was unseen in many years the way that the police responded to these protesters. And these are, mind you, these are like Gen Z, right? Like these are like 18, 19 year old kids who for the first time are expressing their freedom of speech, like expressing dissent against their own government and demanding the government that they do right by them, but instead are getting beaten up by patents, tear gassed and in some instances pallet guns were used that left permanent disabilities on some people. There are video evidence of young women being slapped by male officers. Some young women who were being, you know, hit in a private parts like by male officers with patents, like you know, ridiculous stuff that kind of video evidence that is, that got widely shared. But what the government did not know, that this generation is very Internet savvy, right. They are Internet native and they can use Instagram. And their brutalities were being live broadcasted and which infuriated even more people. And that led to a wave of people joining in at the site in Delhi which is Jankar Mantar where I was reporting from last week. And that kind of led to a pressure against the government that was unprecedented or in, in Modi's like time I guess. There have only been two other protests that kind of saw this amount of traction in the past. But this was really like shook, rattled the government the way that students poured into the protest site.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, I had read and I'm not sure if this is fully accurate. I'm learning as you're telling me that this is the first time in Modi's tenure that a minister like this has been forced to resign outside of just staffing changes at his behest. This has been because of outside pressure which is not something that Modi likes to cave to. He is a strong man or tries to portray himself as a strong man. And I also saw that of course Modi and the BJP are calling these protesters Muslims. So that's been their response to all of this basically.

[Biplap Kumar Das]

Yeah, absolutely. First of all, yes, Modi is not known to take criticism kindly. Right. He doesn't back down. And often when he is criticized or someone demands something like, you know, from the government, he kind of double downs on his own action. Right. Like, so this hyper masculine, like, you know, Hindu nationalist image that he has built has been the reality on the ground as well. And Muslims have, you know, protested. In 2019, there was a big protest and pretty successful at kind of mobilizing Muslims around the country against the citizenship law. That would have kind of put a question mark on the citizenship of Muslims around the country, really. That was the anxiety. At least. There were big crackdowns against Muslims around the time. And then there was another farmers protest around 2020 and 2021, which was primarily led by the Sikh farmers from the Sikh community in Punjab in India, primarily from Punjab in India, which also saw immense amount of like anti Sikh rhetoric. So every time there's a protest of this scale, the government finds a way to narrativize it or polarize it across religion and tries to kind of retain its, like, Hindu majoritarian kind of movement. And this protest as well, they try to do that by pointing out that, oh, there are some, you know, Muslim protesters in sections of the government's bjp. Leaders in the BJP tried to do that, but the issue was too big. Like, you know, too many people kind of saw it as a real issue and the crackdowns as brutal. But I must say, even now, even now, across many states in India, Muslims are being targeted as being like, related to this protest or co organizing this protest. But largely what we see is the government on the back food. They are being defensive right now. They know that their own base, some of the people of their own Hindu nationalist base are also seeing that this government hasn't worked for them really. Right. So that's where we are at right now.

[Dr. Peter Hotez]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigeland]

And how does the solidarity that these young people have with Gaza play into this with the Palestinian cause? We've seen that Narendra Modi and his government have cozied up to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli government in recent years. They both share a hatred of Muslim people and so young people are not happy with that. And that played into this as well.

[Biplap Kumar Das]

Yeah. I must say that the primary focus of the protest was education and the issue of education and demanding reforms in the education system. But when I went there, when I was at the protest site speaking to all these people who had come in and these were like kids who had like Just taken the train, fought with their parents to be at the protest site in Delhi, right? And they were just sleeping on the sidewalks, like, just on a piece of cloth, like, you know, just with a backpack as, like a pillow, right? And they were like, there for, like, weeks. A lot of them, when I spoke to them, were actually very well versed in the politics of the world. These are educated young kids who just are facing an uncertain future, right? And they are also, like, there were kids were talking about, like, stuff like Gaza. There were students who wore the kifiyeh around them. They were talking about the genocide. They were talking about genocide because they saw that, you know, on Instagram. These are kids who are on Instagram all the time, right? You know, they interacted with, you know, reels of the genocide being broadcasted on, on the Internet, right? And the fact that there was solidarity, that they expressed solidarity with, like, young students, the fact that young Palestinians in Gaza had to, like, see their colleges being fully, like, flattened as a result of genocide, they felt the same kind of empathy and solidarity towards them. So the kids who were at the protest site, although the leaders of the CJP itself were kind of like, you know, controlling the narrative around the protest or strategic, being strategic about how to demand, how to go about the demands with the government. But the protesters on the ground were very well versed, very well educated. And that's kind of what has given hope across, like, progressives around the country, that this could be how we go about, like, you know, resisting this government, that even though there is, like, deep mistrust of the election commission of elections of the government, and we don't know if this will reflect on electoral outcomes. It's uncertain if BJP is actually going to be affected. They seem like such a behemoth when it comes to elections. There's such a machine. But the politics of the streets could be transformed. And the politics of the streets is what could give hope to people across the country.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, this has been super illuminating. Really appreciate your time today. Biplop Kumar Das, you can read his piece at Dropside News. India's cockroach protests end as Modi government bows to demands. We will be monitoring this story and appreciate your time today. Thanks so much.

[Biplap Kumar Das]

Thank you, Emma. Thank you so much.

[Emma Vigeland]

Of course. With that, folks, we're going to wrap up the free part of this program and head into the fun part of the program where we'll probably take some calls. We shall see. We will read your IMs for sure.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

We're going to put the fun in

[Emma Vigeland]

funeral oh, my God. You know, we don't need to do too much to have fun when we're talking about Lindsey Graham's death. It's kind of in and of itself a bit of a celebratory event, but Trump and the Republicans and Sean Hannity and the other attendees have made it even more humorous somehow. Thanks to everybody. We recognize that the levels were a little off in the interview. We'll work on that. We're, you know, getting the tech right here, so at least we look clear. I think the show looks pretty good today. Matt, what's happening on Left Reckoning and with the Jacobin show?

[Matt Leck]

Yeah, Left Reckoning had RM Brown on the program yesterday to talk about Elon Musk. Did a long sit down with the Economist magazine. And I think it's really embarrassing for the entire world that he's the richest man in it and is so full of shit. Yeah, actually, you're embarrassing. Everyone hates you. Everyone loves me, actually. And I don't care if I'm hated, but everyone loves me.

[Emma Vigeland]

Do you see the Twitter followers?

[Matt Leck]

Got so many Twitter followers. So, yeah, check that out. We. We went deep into was 80 minutes long. And he's a psycho. That people. The question is like, okay, Elon, how are your businesses ever going to make money? And his literal answer is, the AI Jesus is going to take over. The Jesus, my term for it, is going to take over and do all of that stuff. And so you don't need to worry about it. We're going to have such abundance because of AI that who cares about money? We don't even need to talk about raising my taxes, because what is money? What does money even mean? He was saying this to the Economist magazine, a magazine that's existed for long enough for Karl Marx to have similar problems with it that I do.

[Emma Vigeland]

And it seems like you care about money. It seems like you care a little bit about money.

[Matt Leck]

Well, that's the thing is like, it's like, well. And she's like, okay, if money doesn't matter, and it's just, we're gonna have such abundance that, what is money anyway? Do you think you should pay more taxes? And his response is, well, first of all, I do pay a lot of taxes.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, there you go. So it sounds like it matters a little bit. Folks like the stream. Why don't you do that? Getting into people's feeds. Join. That's free. But if you want to become a paid member, join themjorityreport.com it keeps us alive and thriving in times where Stephen Miller Marco, Rubio, Trump are circulating memos about targeting leftist groups and individuals, including our colleague and friend, Hasan Piker. So if you want to try to keep us resilient from third party platforms, join themjorityreport.com.

[Matt Leck]

yeah, pre fund the inevitable lawsuit that tries to keep us all out of business.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, my God. How could you say such a thing?

[Matt Leck]

How could I voice my number one concern over the past, like, decade?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, you got to do it in an artful way. Yes, that is concerning. Anyway, let's not think about it right now. Join the majorityreport.com if possible. Okay, folks, see you in the fun half. In a second.

[David Hogg]

Okay.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

Emma, please.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority report.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

Wait, look, Sam is unpopular.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

I do deserve a vacation at Disney World. So. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure

[David Hogg]

to welcome Emma to the show.

[Emma Vigeland]

It is Thursday.

[Matt Leck]

I think you need to take over for Sam.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Yes. Boys, I'm. I'm going to pause you right there. Wait, what? You can't encourage Emma to live like this. And I'll tell you why. Someone offered a tour. Sushi and poker with the boys. Tour, sushi and poker with the boys. Who was offered a tour?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Sushi and poker with boys.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

What?

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Twerk, sushi and poker.

[David Hogg]

Tim's upset.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Twerk, sushi and poker with turtle boys was offered with twerk, sushi and that's what we call biz. Twerk, sushi and poker with three boys. Right. Twerk, sushi and poker.

[Emma Vigeland]

We're going to get demonetized.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

I just think that what you did to T pool was mean.

[Emma Vigeland]

Free speech.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

That's not what we're about here. Look at how sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about it. I think you're responsible.

[Emma Vigeland]

I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Sushi and poker with the boys. Oh, my God. Wow. Sushi. I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered a tour. Sushi and poker with boys. Sushi and poker. Little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Little kid. Think I'm like a kid. I think I'm like a little kid Think I'm like a little kid had this debate 7,000 times.

[Unidentified Co-host 2]

A little kid.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

I think I'm like a little kid. I don't care. I'm losing my mind Some people just don't understand. So I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but, like, I absolutely think the US should be providing Me with a wife and kids.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's not what we're talking about here.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

It's not a fun job.

[David Hogg]

That's a real thing.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

That's that real thing. Real thing. Willy Wonka work. That's a real thing. That's that real thing. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. That's a real thing that's offered at work. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Rogan has done it again. That's a real thing. That's. Oh, I think he might be blowing

[Emma Vigeland]

it out of proportion.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Real thing. That's. Boys that offered to twerk. That's a real thing. That's. Let's go, Joey. Sushi and poker. Take it easy. Sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker. Sushi. You don't have a clue as to what's going on live YouTube.

[David Hogg]

Sam has the weight of the world on his shoulders.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Anymore.

[Emma Vigeland]

It was so much easier when the majority were poor. It was just you. You were happy.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Let's change the subject through Rangers and Nicks are doing great now. Shut up.

[Emma Vigeland]

Don't want people saying reckless things on your program.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

That's one of the most difficult parts about this show.

[Emma Vigeland]

This is a pro killing podcast.

[David Hogg]

I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury the hatchet.

[Emma Vigeland]

Left his best trump.

[David Hogg]

Violet. Twerk.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Don't be foolish and don't tweet at me.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

And don't.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

The way Emma has all of these people blum.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's where my heart is. So I wrote my honors thesis about it.

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

Oh, she wrote an honest thesis.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

I guess I should hand the main

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

mic to you now. You want to go right up to the uniform policy.

[Emma Vigeland]

We already fund Israel, dude. Are you against that?

[Unidentified Co-host 3]

That's a tougher question I don't have an answer to.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

Incredible theme song.

[Emma Vigeland]

I Bumbler. Emma Viland.

[Unidentified Co-host 1]

Absolutely one of my favorite people, actually.

[Emma Vigeland]

Not just in the game, like, period.