3700 - Sam Seder Returns! Haley Stevens Loses it; Franchise Scams w/ David Dayen

Summary

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The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3700 - Sam Seder Returns! Haley Stevens Loses it; Franchise Scams w/ David Dayen
Date: July 31, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Sam Seder returns to host after a brief hiatus, joining Emma Vigeland, Matt Stoller, and special guest David Dayen (executive editor, The American Prospect). The show dives into two main themes: the overheated Michigan Senate primary battle between Haley Stevens and Abdul El-Sayed amidst staggering outside spending and accusations of bigotry, and a revealing look at how franchise scams are systematically extracting wealth from everyday people. The tone swings from irreverent banter to serious political commentary—a signature Majority Report blend.

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Main Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. Sam Seder Returns: Lore, Absence, and New Projects

• [01:47 – 09:38]
  • Sam jokes about wild rumors concerning his absence (plastic surgery, hair transplants):

    “I am back. I am alive. I am not. This is not an AI replica of myself. You have recovered all my fingers, as you can see.” (Sam Seder, 04:33)

  • Mentions a secret acting job (NDA prevents him from naming the show):

    “I think it comes out next April, just one episode. But I got a chance to work with some really great actors in a beautiful location.” (Sam Seder, 06:16)

• Studio Banter:
  • Playful speculation about Sam’s life, and ongoing inside jokes about crew members’ wardrobe choices.
  • Teaser: will have the cast on when the episode airs.

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2. Michigan Democratic Senate Primary: Stevens vs. El-Sayed

• [09:59 – 24:39]
  • Background:
    • Massive national attention on the Michigan Senate Democratic primary, viewed as a test for the progressive movement.
    • Abdul El-Sayed (Bernie-endorsed, progressive, author on Medicare for All) vs. Haley Stevens (establishment, flush with outside money).
  • Major Points:
    • Outside groups (Israel, AI, and crypto lobbies) have spent an astounding $60 million for Stevens.
    • If that doesn't secure a victory, it will reveal enormous cracks in the establishment’s power.

      “If $60 million can’t beat Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan, like, what can $60 million do?” (Sam Seder, 13:45)

    • Emma notes Stevens' campaign is being used as an “example” to crush the progressive flank.
    • Thread of money’s decreasing effectiveness in politics (reference to failed big-spend efforts for centrist Dems elsewhere and Trump 2.0 super PACs).
  • Rising Tensions & Accusations:
    • The mudslinging has gotten severe. Stevens accuses El-Sayed of bigotry:

      “…Everyone in America understands you want to blame all of your problems on Jewish Americans.” (Haley Stevens, quoted by Sam Seder, 17:17)

    • Panel is incredulous at the accusation:

      “Not only does everyone in America not understand, I don’t even understand this sentence.” (Sam Seder, 17:48)

    • Analysis that such attacks have stopped working—may backfire by strengthening the progressive message.
    • Key insight: Voters increasingly distrust establishment claims about “electability” after repeated losses:

      “Ten years on from 2016, this ‘what if you win the primary but lose to the Republicans’ is a harder thing for the establishment to sell…” (Matt Stoller, 19:05)

    • The “complainer class” narrative turned on its head—Haley Stevens using old tropes (calling El-Sayed a “celebrity” and “part of the whiner class”) that once worked against progressives, but now feel worn out.
• Notable Quotes & Moments:
  • Sam ridiculing coded language and manufactured outrage:

    “This whole thing about blaming it on Jewish Americans is just, I cannot tell you…gentiles are getting offended on behalf of Jews in a way that is, you know, grotesque.” (Sam Seder, 23:39)

  • Observations on desperation:

    “They've lost the argument, but the money wants them to argue one way and they're blaring out a losing message.” (Emma Vigeland, 24:47)

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3. Franchise Scams: “Turnkey” Nightmares (w/ David Dayen)

• Interview Segment Begins [30:15]
  • Dayen’s Recent Reporting:
    • Focus on “Bath Tune-Up” and “Kitchen Tune-Up”—franchises within the Home Franchise Concepts conglomerate.
    • Over 54 franchisees have filed FTC complaints for predatory practices.
    • Franchisees promised “easy money” and turnkey businesses, but “everything they were told was a lie.”

      “They're forced to buy from all these vendors that have kickbacks with the franchise operator. It's basically impossible to make a profit, and you lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. In many and most cases, the life savings of these people who just wanted sort of that American dream to be their own boss.” (David Dayen, 34:36)

  • Systemic Problems Unpacked:
    • Current regulations require only disclosure; no real protections for franchisees.
    • Even minimal disclosure rules are routinely violated—franchisees can’t contact former owners, because the parent company reroutes calls.
    • Predatory practices: junk fees, forced purchasing from overpriced vendors, misleading advertising claims to secure SBA loans.
    • Arbitration clauses prevent franchisees from suing.
    • “Truth in advertising” routinely violated.
  • Regulatory Failure:
    • FTC under Lina Khan tried to encourage franchisees to speak up, but the whole “disclosure regime” is fundamentally broken.
    • Case study: one determined ex-franchisee, Kay Sharaf, organized others and brought coordinated FTC attention—with little action to show.

      “You have to get one really dedicated person to start coordinating people. So there's this woman named Kay Sharaf…when she actually called the other franchisees and contacted them, none of them were doing well either. And she started what is now, I believe, a 29 part YouTube series about this.” (David Dayen, 43:13)

• Big Picture Takeaway:
  • Rampant predatory behavior is not only tolerated but built into the franchise system; people feel isolated and blamed for systemic exploitation.

    “It reminded me of like, when the financial crisis hit, people lost their homes, everybody thought it was their own fault. And it took a long time for people to understand there was something systemic.” (Sam Seder, 51:30)

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4. American Prospect’s “Prospect Patriots” Series

• [45:29 – 51:30]
  • Brief mention of new magazine series for America’s 250th birthday, spotlighting activists who changed history from the bottom up (no elected officials).
  • Figures featured: Louis Brandeis, Ida Tarbell, Frederick Douglass, Ida B. Wells, A. Philip Randolph, Francis Perkins, Ferdinand Pecora, Judy Heumann.
  • Theme: Real change comes from collective action and power outside the system.

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5. Quick Takes, Budget Battle, and Future Fights

• [51:30 – End]
  • Budget fight in the Senate: no filibuster reform anticipated; establishment Republicans fear a new breed of activist Democrats.
  • Unusual bipartisan move expected: bill to block Trump from using grant money as a tool for political vengeance.
  • General air of uncertainty about where things are headed, especially on progressive insurgency and party alignments:

    “I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months. And I don't know if it's necessarily gonna be better...but...we're gonna look back and go like, wow.” (Sam Seder, 59:51)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Establishment Panic:

  “If $60 million can't beat, Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan, like, what can $60 million do?” (Sam Seder, 13:44)

• On Desperate Smears:

  “Not only does everyone in America not understand, I don't even understand this sentence. Put this back up. Like, you want to blame all of your problems on Jewish Americans. Like. Like, is he saying, like, he missed his legs day in the gym because of the Jews?” (Sam Seder, 17:48)

• Big Money’s New Weakness:

  “He’s flipped the narrative to say that that amount of outside spending by corporate interests actually is indicative of your weakness 100%.” (Emma Vigeland, 19:43)

• On Franchise Predation:

  “All of the promises that are made to them about how easy this business is, how it's easy to make money, how it's a turnkey operation. None of them are true.” (David Dayen, 32:57)

• On Organizing Against Scams:

  “She was constantly told by the parent company, ‘Oh, you're just not doing a good enough job. Look at everybody else, they're all doing fantastic, you should be doing better’. When she actually called the other franchisees...none of them were doing well either.” (David Dayen, 43:31)

• On the Current Political Moment:

  “This isn’t a bunch of Schumer Democrats anymore.” (David Dayen, 52:51)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:47 – Show proper begins with Sam’s return
• 09:59 – Michigan Senate primary deep dive starts
• 15:09 – Stevens/El-Sayed escalating rhetoric (including direct quotes)
• 19:05 – Progressive shift and establishment credibility questioned
• 30:15 – David Dayen interview (franchise scams) begins
• 37:17 – Dayen outlines regulatory failures/FTC issues
• 43:13 – Organizing against franchise scams
• 45:29 – “Prospect Patriots” historical series explanation
• 51:30 – Budget fight and future political dynamics

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Conclusion

This episode blends sharp, inside-baseball political analysis with deadpan banter and a deep dive into working-class economic exploitation. The Michigan primary is framed as a potential turning point for progressives, while the franchise segment exposes the insidious ways “small business” dreams get looted by corporate grift. If you want a snapshot of what independent progressive commentary looks like in 2026, and what’s percolating under the surface for both elections and the economy, this episode delivers.

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Transcript

[Sam Seder]

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[David Dayen]

the

[Sam Seder]

Majority Report with Sam Smith Cedar. Where every day is casual. Friday that means Monday is casual. Monday, Tuesday casual Tuesday, Wednesday casual Hump day, Thursday casual. Thurs. That's what we call it. And Friday casual Shabbat. The Majority Report with Sam Cedar. It is Friday, July 31, 2026. My name is Sam Seder. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, David Dayen, executive editor of the American Prospect, co host of the Organized Money podcast with Matt Stoller. Also on the program today, Hamas agrees to a multi phase disarmament plan. More on that later. Trump says Israel better go along with it or I'll do nothing. Meanwhile, Todd Blanche nomination on its last legs. 60,000 or near 60,000 people cross into Spanish enclave on the tip of Morocco. Chevron Exxon earnings through the roof as Iran launches strikes against US targets in Kuwait. New York state sues Kalshee for being an illegal gambling site. Bernie Marino's daughter files yet another restraining order against Republican congressman Max Miller. Mandela Barnes drops out of the Wisconsin governor race. DHS. What is this? I can't even remember this. Oh. DHS notice on Haitian temporary protected status. Revocation causes Massive layoffs at airports, health care facilities and schools. All this and more on today's Majority Report.

[Emma Vigeland]

Welcome back.

[Sam Seder]

Welcome back to. To myself.

[Emma Vigeland]

To yourself. Yes.

[Sam Seder]

Yes. Welcome, folks.

[Emma Vigeland]

Very smooth.

[Sam Seder]

Sam Cedar here with Emma Vigland. I am back. I am alive.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

I am not. This is not an AI replica of myself. You have recovered all my fingers, as you can see.

[Emma Vigeland]

You've recovered from your plastic surgery.

[Sam Seder]

I've recovered from my plastic surgery.

[Emma Vigeland]

So many different.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, that is grandma. Oh, is that one of the theories?

[Emma Vigeland]

No. You're gonna have to be reintroduced to.

[Matt Stoller]

There's a lot of new lore.

[Emma Vigeland]

Might be the greatest sound drop that we. Or be introduced for the first time. Might be the greatest sound drop that Matt has come up with.

[Matt Stoller]

Mom. Donnie was trying to erase Little Italy while you were gone.

[Sam Seder]

Yes, of course.

[Emma Vigeland]

And the Free Press interviewed some people in Little Italy.

[Matt Stoller]

People that might live in Jersey but still like to go to Little Italy. Are not gonna stand for it.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly.

[Sam Seder]

But there wasn't any. I mean, there was rumors that maybe I was going to get a full hair replacement in Turkey, and that's what it took me a month for the scars to heal.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, I mean, you've been very convincing with that wig for so long. It's time for a more permanent solution.

[Sam Seder]

Yep. Folks are asking if I had a calf reduction surgery.

[Emma Vigeland]

No. Suddenly you're six foot five, though.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah. No, I got. I had my spine elongated just briefly. I was. Some time ago, I was requested to audition for a show and a TV show. And I figured, ah, on a lark, I would do it occasionally. You know, I maybe go on one audition every 18 months or something like that.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Sam Seder]

As some of you know, I used to do a little acting and I got it. I thought the part was going to be. I thought the shoot was going to be a little shorter than it was. I can't say what the show is because I actually had to sign an NDA so they could. I guess they have the timing in which. But it comes out. I think it comes out next April, just one episode. But I got a chance to work with some really great actors in a beautiful location. It's a show that I had seen one season had come out and it's. I really enjoyed it. And we'll, you know, we'll talk more about it. I said with the cat. Why? You look like you're about to, like.

[Emma Vigeland]

No, I'm just smiling. Why are you so uncomfortable with me showing Joy?

[Sam Seder]

This whole thing with the. With the microphone, it's all very confusing. Look, as an Actor like, oh, God. I just, like, I'm, I'm more sensitive to my surroundings now and so, so

[Emma Vigeland]

everyone has to coddle you.

[Sam Seder]

When I entered in, when I. It's not White Lotus. It's not White Lotus. That, that's three seasons. When I came in today, I, I, I blared back in black. Oh, really? Just for the.

[David Dayen]

From your phone.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah. And of course, I missed the, I missed Big interview yesterday when I saw that it went very, very well.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes. I thought it was.

[Sam Seder]

I found it really interesting. The stuff about the Maha stuff was. I did not anticipate that. And it was very interesting to see.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

Like, who knows if she's going to run for president, speaking of aoc, of course, or Senate, but I suspect it's going to be one of those two things. But regardless of what she runs for, she's still a very prominent voice in terms of setting the narrative for the Democratic Party. We saw what Mamdani did to affordability, and it became the watchword. And the idea that tying in both corruption and, and corporate malfeasance and just corporate power as a way of undermining the maha element of the coalition, I thought that was really interesting.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, it's interesting to get a peek under the hood, I guess, and how we've talked about how she's been strategic, but to get to ask her about the substance of that strategy was really great.

[Sam Seder]

And I also heard reports that both you guys, both Matt and Brian wore collared shirts. I put on my court shirt.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly.

[Sam Seder]

Matt even wore his best gym shorts.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes, the dress. Gym shorts.

[Matt Stoller]

First of all, they're khaki shorts, not gym shorts. But the polo I did wear was athleisure, so.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, very nice. Good. That's good. I'm glad to hear. And both you guys, I heard you came in with your hair combed.

[Emma Vigeland]

It was really, it was impressive. Okay, moving on. Well, what I was laughing about is that once this show comes out, the meme potential is going to be so good. And I can't wait for the audience to see.

[Sam Seder]

That's right. And just a tiny clue. And I will not. If you guess it, I'm still not gonna say anything. But the idea that Lindsey Graham passed away unexpectedly while I was on this

[Emma Vigeland]

job is extra suspicious.

[Sam Seder]

Extra suspicious. It's, it's going to fuel the heated rivalry. You said second season, Brian. That is perfect in the NDA. That's one way to go with that. It's one way to go with that. But when the, when the episode comes out of the closet. We will have all the cast on. And

[Emma Vigeland]

now that is Grandma.

[David Dayen]

Oh, man.

[Sam Seder]

Oh, yeah, I saw that, too.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, that's what. That's what that sound drop is. Oh, that is Grandma.

[Sam Seder]

Okay, got it. Got it. Now it all makes sense.

[Emma Vigeland]

And that is Grandpa.

[Sam Seder]

All right.

[David Dayen]

Well, consider you to be my mayor.

[Sam Seder]

On Tuesday of next week, we will be doing coverage of the Michigan primaries. There's one other state I can't remember at the moment. I'm sorry, I've been out of town for a bit.

[Emma Vigeland]

I can. I have it up here on the calendar. There's a few other states, yes. Kansas, Missouri, Michigan, Virginia, Washington. But Missouri and, and Michigan have races that we're watching pretty closely.

[Sam Seder]

We will be doing coverage at the very least that day. We may end up actually doing the entire show later in the day. We've got to check on when they are fixing the air conditioning, which perfectly tells the end. I mean, who knows?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

Nevertheless, this is a big, big race that has taken on even more import as it has become sort of the test as to whether the reinvigorated progressive movement, driven largely by the DSA successes in New York and other places around the country. Now, Abdul Al Said is not dsa, but he is associated with the progressive movement and many shares, many.

[Emma Vigeland]

Bernie endorsed him early on.

[Sam Seder]

Bernie endorsed him early on, wrote the

[Matt Stoller]

book on Medicare for all and literally

[Sam Seder]

wrote the book on Medicare for all. And so this race is going to be important as a bellwether as to what's happening with the Democratic Party. There have been tens of millions of dollars dumped into this race in literally in the past month.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, $60 million in outside spending on Haley Stevens behalf. It's nuts. And they're trying to make an example out of Abdullah Sayed. That's what the Israel lobby and the AI and crypto lobbies are trying to do.

[Sam Seder]

And not just make it cuts both ways. They also know that, I mean, it's not just that they want to make sure that he's defeated. They also know the implications are dire if he wins. Because. And particularly now with the $60 million, because if $60 million cannot win you a race in Michigan, as a sitting congresswoman running for the Senate, when Mallory McMurrow, who ostensibly was going to be this sort of like neither fish nor foul candidate, she drops out ostensibly to help Haley Stevens. I mean, that was her. That was her thinking.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

And you have the entire apparatus of the Democratic establishment behind you.

[Emma Vigeland]

Clyburn and Whitmer. Whitmer endorsed.

[Sam Seder]

You have fake ads about Obama endorsing you view. If all that plus $60 million doesn't win, it says a couple of things. Generically speaking. It's saying that the, the candidate, the establishment candidate, again, was a total flop. Janet Mills 2.0. And they made a mistake in not backing Mallory McMurray and still desperately clinging on to Haley Stevens. But it also says, like, if $60 million can't beat, Abdul El said in Michigan, like, what can $60 million do? You know, we saw the failure of money in the New York City mayoral race. We saw the failure of Janet Mills in Maine.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, and this has been also kind of the theme of Trump 2.0. Just to kick it off, there was record spending by Elon Musk, who's renewing his super PAC for this election cycle. We just headlined that yesterday. And that was a negative in that race, and he failed spectacularly. That's been the story of Trump 2.0 in many ways.

[Sam Seder]

Here is Abdul El Said, calling Haley Stevens one of the least capable candidates in America. Hard to argue.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, but that's a little sexist to say anything negative about your opponent. I mean, she's a woman, after all.

[Sam Seder]

Well, also, we also understand the code there. Least capable. I mean, most Jewish. Let's play this.

[Emma Vigeland]

But you know what?

[Sam Seder]

He or she, you know, but she's not Jewish. But you know it. You know what? You know what, and you know what that means.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, go ahead.

[David Dayen]

You know, when AIPAC watches this, come

[Sam Seder]

for me, see what happens.

[David Dayen]

Come for me. Like, you know, I know you keep coming, but, like, you picked like, literally the least capable candidate in America, right?

[Sam Seder]

And then Chuck Schumer doubles down, and then AIPAC doubles down. And part of me is like, okay,

[David Dayen]

look, if you think you can beat

[Sam Seder]

money out of politics, money in your pocket, Medicare for all, come. But I'll tell you what people don't want. They don't want money in a foreign government.

[David Dayen]

They want money here.

[Sam Seder]

But it's a good point. And of course, Haley Stevens responded. And of course, it's quite clear. I mean, I think you can hear when he says, we want Medicare for all, or we want higher taxes on millionaires. We want money out of politics. We all know who he's blaming, right? Folks like me.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly.

[Sam Seder]

Jewish people. Here's Haley Stevens, just to make it clear. And what I like about this tweet from Haley Stevens, when she goes full racist here is she's goes full racist. Not like. You don't have to read between the lines here, guy. Oh, she, she writes Abdul we were both on the ballot in 2018. I was capable of winning my competitive primary in general election. You lost. You lost by. Incidentally, for those of you who are not aware, 2018 was eight years ago.

[David Dayen]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

So let me just rephrase this, Abdul. Eight years ago, when we were both on the ballot in 2018, I was capable of winning my competitive primary and general election. You lost. You lost by over 20 points to Gretchen Whitmer, and you will lose to Mike Rogers by talking like this. Everyone in America understands you want to blame all of your problems on Jewish Americans.

[Matt Stoller]

I don't understand that.

[Emma Vigeland]

No, I'm. I'm not understanding that at all.

[Sam Seder]

You know what? Not only does everyone in America not understand, I don't even understand this sentence. Put this back up. Like, you want to blame all of your problems on Jewish Americans. Like. Like, is he saying, like, he missed his legs day in the gym because of the Jews? Like, what does he go. I don't understand. All his problems are on Jewish Americans.

[Matt Stoller]

It seems like she's conflating Jewish Americans with apac.

[David Dayen]

That's exactly, like, a bit of a problem.

[Emma Vigeland]

It seems to be what she's doing.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah. But also, all his problems. He's up by 15 points right now in the polls. I mean, we'll see.

[David Dayen]

Who knows?

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

Who knows? But what is that? What does that even mean?

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, she's also, like, trying to do this thing, like, I am capable of winning and you are not. Now what? This is also part of what AOC said to me yesterday. People don't have the trust that the establishment centrist winners can't even win anymore because Trump just won for a second time. And. And they don't have the credibility to win elections. So she's quadrupling down on something that used to be a strength for a centrist like her, but is not a strength anymore.

[Matt Stoller]

Ten years on, from 2016, this. What if you win the primary but lose to the Republicans is a harder thing for the establishment to sell when they have repeatedly won the primaries and lost to the Republicans.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly.

[Sam Seder]

And I would add to that, if you can't beat your primary opponent with $60 million, how many millions of dollars do you need to defeat the Republican? And why do you anticipate an organization like aipac, which is largely funded by Republican donors, is gonna give you that money in the general election?

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, that's where. That's what Abdul is saying in that clip. It's shortened, but it's a continuation of the argument he was also making at the debate. He calls it a $60 million crutch, essentially saying that she's such. He's flipped the narrative to say that that amount of outside spending by corporate interests actually is indicative of your weakness 100%. And so that's what he's saying in that clip. And she's, as she clutches her pearls and says he's blaming all Jewish Americans.

[Sam Seder]

And, and, and to be clear, if anybody, I mean, if we had somebody on this program a year ago who said Haley Stevens is going to need $60 million in outside spending to beat Abdul El said people would laugh at anybody who implied she's not going to need $60 million. And if she does get $60 million, this guy's going to be in the dust.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Sam Seder]

I mean, this is, it is stunning. And at one point, when we look back on this era of these primaries, we're going to see that something has fundamentally changed, not just in the context of the electorate, but in what it takes to win a primary. Because the money is, even if she somehow wins Tuesday night, the money to vote ratio is just completely out of whack. But I will continue to read. But, buddy, let me be very clear now. I sort of feel like, I mean, I'm not. It's weird that she didn't capitalize the B. Will you go there? I mean, I don't know what she's saying, but this seems to me to be some type of slight, some type of, like, very. That's coded language. When you don't capitalize the B, it's like, I'm not saying it's anti Semitism, but let me be very clear. I will lower the cost of groceries, ban stock trading for elected officials. Oh, I don't think she. Herself, I think she means, I will support these things, stop Trump's abuses of power and protect Michigan Manufacturing, and you'll just be a celebrity.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's my favorite.

[Sam Seder]

Why? Well, that is what they attacked Obama for.

[Emma Vigeland]

Sam, I played the ad of McCain, okay? Literally, we're. Damn it.

[Sam Seder]

Celebrity whining and writing books to get even richer.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

You're part of the complainer class.

[Emma Vigeland]

That's amazing.

[Sam Seder]

Looking for their next book or podcast deal.

[Emma Vigeland]

Can you imagine if he said to his female opponent, you're part of the

[Matt Stoller]

complaint, Part of the whiner class.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

Part of the nagging class.

[Emma Vigeland]

Shut up, you dumb nag.

[Sam Seder]

Bro. Bro, first of all, should have been bruh. That's the thing. She's trying to be hip, but she doesn't realize bro is like, that's like 15 years ago. Should be B R. U h. You know how I know this?

[Matt Stoller]

Your son?

[Sam Seder]

My daughter.

[Emma Vigeland]

She does like using bro. A lot.

[Sam Seder]

Oh, no. It's like, hey, what's this? Why do you need an extra 40 bucks for food? I gave you money for food at the beginning of the month, bruh. That's it. Hormuz, bro. Exactly, bruh. Do you see the cost of gas? Honestly, I've gotten that to you. I just want to work for Michigan. Well, but. But I think there's going to be many opportunities for her to get a state job, maybe become a substitute teacher, maybe join Second City and flop. Flop around the stage. That's in Illinois.

[Matt Stoller]

Chicago.

[David Dayen]

Right.

[Sam Seder]

She's not going to have a job.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

Relocate.

[Matt Stoller]

Go work.

[Sam Seder]

Okay. She wants to work for Michigan, bruh.

[Matt Stoller]

Bruh.

[Emma Vigeland]

She wants to work. She's a workhorse, not a show horse.

[Sam Seder]

But honestly, this whole thing about blaming it on Jewish Americans is just, I cannot tell you. And this has been going on for multiple years now, where gentiles are getting offended on behalf of Jews in a way that is, you know, grotesque.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes. Despite seeing Israel in her dreams, Haley Stevens is not a Jewish American herself.

[Sam Seder]

And here's the other thing, is that like, we see this in New York all the time where there's such a desperate desperation to foment anger against Mamdani and we see the same sort of playbook with Abdul El Said. I'm trying to think about, like, what it would be that would in some way make them both susceptible, at least in the minds of these people, to these attacks. And the fascinating thing to me about it is it stopped working. I don't know if it was 10 months ago or 15 months ago or 18 months ago, but it completely doesn't work. And it actually, I'm convinced, has the opposite effect.

[Emma Vigeland]

They've lost the argument, but the money wants them to argue one way and they're blaring out a losing message. That's.

[Sam Seder]

That's all it is. The ultimate in beating of a dead horse. And I don't mean that in the way to disparage Jews or to disparage her, the workhorse. Oh, yeah, sorry.

[Emma Vigeland]

Stop joking about beating up women.

[Sam Seder]

I know how misogynist that sounds. Anti centaurism. It's beating a dead filly. Is that the.

[Emma Vigeland]

Is that.

[Sam Seder]

You would know, right? Is that a female horse? Yeah. Okay.

[Matt Stoller]

Why? Because it's all the time he spent at the tracks.

[Emma Vigeland]

You would know.

[Sam Seder]

Are you kidding?

[Emma Vigeland]

Degenerate.

[Sam Seder]

All right. PB AquaDuck. That broke my heart when that closed. Brian's on off track betting website right now as we. He's like, we got to go to break because the, the third race that in Saratoga is going and I got to get a bed in.

[Emma Vigeland]

I love how this has taken the heat off me, by the way, and my gambling

[Sam Seder]

folks. In a moment, we'll be talking to David Dayen, executive editor of the American Prospect and co host of the Organized Money podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor, which would be Neutrophil. I was on set last week and they have hair and makeup people and the hair guy said, your hair is super thick and healthy. He asked me if I was taking one of those drugs. Drugs. I was like, nah, dude, neutrophil. He was like, that's good because he says drugs are not bad for you. He was also a guy like, tell me like all sorts of other sort

[Emma Vigeland]

of like wellness stuff.

[Sam Seder]

Wellness stuff and what he takes. And he is, he. The guy is like 6 inches shorter than me and he used to bench press £500, which is crazy. But back to my hair Neutral is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. It's used by over 1.5 million people. I've been using it for years now and I see new growth and my hair health is excellent. Nutrafol has formulas built for men at different life stages. Nutrafol for guys 18 to 49 and the new Nutrafol Men 50 plus. That would be my category, which is the first product of its kind specifically made for men over 50. I don't even want to know what it is that I'm lacking, but I have a feeling it's doesn't matter. Address the key root causes of thinning wherever you are in life. Grow visibly thicker, fuller hair in three to six months. The great thing about Neutrophil is that it tests the final product like the formulation, not the separate. It doesn't take a series of tests of the different ingredients. It tests the final product. And something like 80% of people who take it for three to six months see a visible difference. Start Nutrafol today. Make the hat optional. Visit nutrafol.com Enter promo code TMR10 for 10 bucks off your first month subscription and free shipping. Find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code TMR10. That's nutrafol.com promo code TMR10. Quick break. We'll be right back with David Dayen, Sam, We are back. Sam Cedar, Emma Vigland on the Majority Report. It's pleasure to welcome back to the the program David Dayen, of course, he is the executive editor of the American Prospect and co host of the Organized Money podcast, Matt Stoller. David Dayen, welcome back.

[David Dayen]

Thank you. I heard you were away. I was generating an entire pitch to Emma on why she needs to just get out of here.

[Emma Vigeland]

I'd still like to hear it.

[David Dayen]

I mean, this guy's not talented. Come on.

[Sam Seder]

But it's a tougher pitch to make when I'm not here. It's much easier to make it while I'm here.

[David Dayen]

Well, there is a proof of concept when you're here, right?

[Sam Seder]

Exactly.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right. Meaning he's more likely to be agitating me in the current moment than when he's away.

[Sam Seder]

Exactly.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

The most compelling reason for her to be here is when I'm not here. Of course.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[David Dayen]

We'll give it up. We'll work on it later. I'll call you later.

[Sam Seder]

All right. I want to go I want to talk to you about a couple of pieces that you've written over the past week. I mean, obviously we've had some stuff in the news this week, but there's there's sort of like largely everything is sort of frozen in amber. It seems like this week we have reengaged in Iran and Todd Blanch is just going to stay on as acting ag, it appears. But you wrote a piece about a franchisee called Bath Tune up, which was a remodeling franchise. We interviewed Brian Kalichi on Chains of Command about the franchises, I don't know, several months ago. And so this caught my eye. Tell us the story because it's indicative of another problem that we have in our economy.

[David Dayen]

Well, something we've seen ever since the pandemic is that people want to be their own boss. Get it, Emma? So people, people want to be their own boss. The actual rates of business formation have skyrocketed since 2020. I think people realized they feel better relying on themselves than anybody else in this economy. And we've seen this really, really take off. And one of the ways, one of the sort of more convenient ways to engage in that entrepreneurship is by purchasing a franchise. And franchises are everything from the McDonald's to the smaller franchises that maybe people don't know a lot about. The one you referenced, Kitchen Tune up and Bath Tune up, is a franchise that's been around. I think the Kitchen Tune up side has been around since the 80s. And now they're part of a larger conglomerate called Home Franchise Concepts, which has eight or nine brands, including maid services and dog grooming, and also this remodeling thing. And the issue is that, as you talked about with Brian Colaci, the regulatory regime for franchising is really just disclosure. There is no real protection for a franchisee when they buy a franchise other than a piece of paper that says, here's how the business works, and if there are violations that are at odds with that piece of paper, then there's a case to be made. However, what this means is that if the franchise tells you in fine print how they're going to screw you, they can screw you, right? And frequently they do. When I looked into this particular thing, when I talked to people, apparently 54 franchisees of this particular company have filed complaints to the FTC about violations of that disclosure rule. But what they're being subjected to is far. It goes far beyond a lack of disclosure. There they are being asked to give away kind of their life savings to purchase this business. And all of the promises that are made to them about how easy this business is, how it's easy to make money, how it's a turnkey operation. None of them are true. They end up basically paying tons of junk fees to this franchise operator, the parent company. They're told that they're going to get better purchasing power. This is why you hook up with a franchise, because you can get the supplies much cheaper from us than if you go independent. Turns out that's not true. They're paying more for these supplies and materials. They're spending all this money on advertising funds and these marketing deals that are supposed to bring these leads to them. I talked to one franchisee who got four leads in four years from the National Advertising Fund. They paid $100,000 into, so $25,000 per lead. And they're forced to buy from all these vendors that have kickbacks with the franchise operator. It's basically impossible to make a profit, and you lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. In many and most cases, the life savings of these people who just wanted sort of that American dream to be their own boss.

[Sam Seder]

I want to get to, like, what a regulatory regime would look like to protect people here.

[Emma Vigeland]

But.

[Sam Seder]

But there. This is like, you know, and this is an antitrust issue in some respects, I think. And there's a. There seems to me like. And this is a perfect example of it, of like a. A worldview you have to have, to. Which I think many people have. But. But, but often the pushback comes back like, well, these people knew what they were getting into. Like you say it was written out there, there were promises, but like nothing's guaranteed in business because this is, this is a predatory business. Right? Like we should have. In the same way that it's like, you know, any other type of predatory business, we have protection for people. Because you're talking about people who almost definitionally they look for a franchise because they don't have the confidence, the business experience and the confidence to know how to do it from, from, from a jump. The franchise ostensibly is like, we've got this whole thing, it's turnkey for you. Just got to come in and do the work and then it turns out to be basically just a, a money suck. How is it we don't have laws to protect people against this or do we? And they're just not enforced.

[David Dayen]

I'd say two things. Number one, the, even the bare bones laws around disclosure that we have, according to the many franchisees I've talked to have been violated. The rebates are not disclosed until later. They're not told that their fees are on a, what is called a per territory basis. You buy a franchise for a particular territory and then you're told, hey, buy this second territory, you'll make even more money. And it turns out the fees double. And that's not disclosed in the franchising fee. One interesting thing that was not disclosed, you're supposed to be able to contact all current and former franchisees. That is in the law that you're supposed to be able to do your own due diligence by asking the people who've actually been through this how it goes. And what happened was that the parent company, when a franchisee bought out, exited the business. They would change their contact number to the headquarters of the company. So there was no way to actually contact the people who lost out on this business. And that is a violation of the rule. So even the bare bones disclosure that we have that regime was violated in this case according to these 54 odd franchisees. As far as what the regime should or could be, I mean, obviously what you're talking about here, when you're told this stuff, there's truth in advertising. These are very misleading claims that are being made. These claims are being made to get Small Business Administration loans, right? So they're telling the SBA we have an average of $2 million of sales every year and you can expect within three years a profit of $900,000. These are misinterpr to get a loan I mean, that should be a real violation, right? And then you add the fact of these tying arrangements that get made, that it's not in the franchise documents, disclosure documents, but you have to use their call center service. You have to use their recommendation engine. You have to use these particular. You have to use a certain amount of suppliers. These are exclusive deals that are violations under the antitrust laws. If this was any other business, but because it's a franchise. And as Brian Colaci pointed out, these kind of ways in which franchising is regulated were changed in the 1970s. Those things that would be illegal otherwise are not. So there are a lot of things that you could do to bulk up this regime. One of the biggest would be to just give individuals a private right of action to sue, because here we go. There's an arbitration clause in all of these franchise agreements, so they can't get to court. So there's plenty of things that you can do. But what's fascinating to me is that even under the very meager terms of the current regulatory regime, these franchisees, and according to surveys that I've seen, apparently routinely are violating even those meager laws.

[Sam Seder]

What are. You know, I. I suppose if Lina Khan was still at the ftc, we would see a different or a. We would be hearing about, you know, if not already, the idea that, like, there's talk at the FTC to regulate the franchises in a more, you know, both to make sure that they're providing disclosure so that people can make their own assessments, but also other protections. Do you get the sense that people are talking about that for the next time that, you know, a Democratic administration that may or may not be as sort of like, sensitive to antitrust as the Biden administration was.

[David Dayen]

I talked to Alvaro Bedoria, who was an FTC commissioner during Lina Khan's tenure, and he said the disclosure regime is just absolutely and totally broken and that we. We need to do a big update of the franchise rules. During Khan's tenure, the FTC warned franchises about these undisclosed fees and these efforts to shield people from being able to talk to the former franchisees and encourage franchisees to report abuses. And there was a recent case, a $17 million fine settlement against Exponential Fitness, which is like a gym, a franchise of gyms. But what I've been told is that the FTC doesn't even really collect these franchisee disclosure documents, let alone review them. And so they're kind of reliant on people coming to them. And even when people come to them, the first of these 54 complaints on this franchise came to the FTC eight months ago and they have not released any information on whether they've opened an investigation or done any work to that end. So I think the overall sentiment is that a regime based on disclosure, where you have to rely on the franchisees to do all the work for you, it doesn't really work very well.

[Sam Seder]

So this all just, I mean, is this a relatively new thing or why is it that we're just starting to see the first of these of 54 in less than a year?

[David Dayen]

Yeah, I mean, I think that this is the function of as. As it often is in these things, as you know, and I've reported on them for a while. You have to get one really dedicated person to start coordinating people. So there's this woman named Kay Sharaf. She's from Bloomington, Minnesota. She was a franchisee. After four years, her business went bust. Her and her husband, she was a dentist in Yemen and came over here and was a real estate agent and then became a franchisee and lost all this money and decided to call other franchisees to see if this was happening to them. And there was this great, almost liberating feeling when she realized this wasn't about her because she was constantly told by the parent company, oh, you're just not doing a. You're not working hard enough, you're not doing a good enough job. Look at everybody else, they're all doing fantastic, you should be doing better. When she actually called the other franchisees and contacted them, none of them were doing well either. And she started what is now, I believe, a 29 part YouTube series about this. And halfway through, she got a cease and desist from the company. And they said, we're gonna terminate your franchise if you don't take this stuff down. She said, Great, I'm losing $10,000 a month on the franchise. Please take this down. And so I think you have to have those determined people to organize. And she was the one who really got everybody together and coordinated. Everybody on these FTC complaints feels like

[Sam Seder]

there should be like a website like Glass Ceiling or whatever, but Franchise experience. Yeah, something like that. But. All right, let's also talk about the. The prospect is running, I guess, in celebration of Donald Trump's birthday, the 250th. 250th and celebration, the 250th birthday. You, I can't tell how many people are you going to talk about, but it's basically like activists. How would you describe who you're highlighting through American history?

[David Dayen]

So you know, I'm probably not going to get a chance to do a tricentennial issue. So we, we wanted to make this one count. So for the two, it's a little

[Sam Seder]

bleak, but I get it.

[David Dayen]

Even though we're a little late, you know, I mean, July 4th was earlier, but we're still within the month. We did this thing called Prospect Patriots. And the idea was during this time when you sort of take a step back and look through American history, you get a lot of people imposing their own sort of vision on telling the American story. And I think it was important to us to tell the story from our perspective that change is made when people really get together and challenge power from the bottom up. And we wanted to look at representatives of that throughout history. These aren't the 10 best people in American history. These aren't the 10 people that made the most change in American history. I don't think history actually works like that. But these are 10 people who are representative of this idea of challenging power to taking on risks and thriving. And we did 10 profiles, but we also have 40 other people mentioned throughout these things. If you go to the at the [e-mail] subscribe you will see sort of in the margins of these, these profiles that there are these other, other people recognized and honored. But we, yeah, we, we, we had a rule, no elected officials. So none of the 50 that we mentioned are elected officials. They are. Some of them are close to power, but most of them are trying to influence power from the bottom up.

[Sam Seder]

And

[David Dayen]

I thought it was a really interesting exercise and a learning experience, given the time that we're in now, a time of oligarchy, a time of extreme corruption, authoritarianism at the top, to understand how, how history reflects the changes in American life through this structure of really people without institutional power taking it on. So that was the goal of the series.

[Sam Seder]

I want to ask you who some of your favorites are. I suspect one of them is Brandeis, who was one of the early people in. He is one of my faves as well. But who best represents, if there was another era that echoes this, and I don't know that there was, but I would suspect it would be like, you know, 1900 to 1920 or sometime around there post Reconstruction. Who best what? The people that you write about were most prominent during that era in changing things. I mean, Brandeis was one.

[David Dayen]

Yeah. So I did the piece on Louis. I did the piece on Louis Brandeis as an attorney, as a reformer, as an aide, who basically wrote and inspired the agenda that eventually became the New Deal. What he wrote was with Woodrow Wilson's domestic agenda, which called the New Freedom. But much of what Brandeis was talking about there eventually gets realized during the New Deal. So, you know, you can talk about all of these things of Brandeis and how revolutionary he was before he was a Supreme Court justice, before he actually gets on the Supreme Court. And most of the story that I wrote about him actually is about that era of his life. We also talk about, you know, one of the profiles, Zaida Tarbell, that's out today, who was a muckraking journalist who really took down. She was instrumental in taking down Standard Oil, which was the dominant sort of the Google of its time. And it was almost like a weird revenge story because Standard Oil ruined her father. She lived in Pennsylvania, and Standard Oil bought up all these companies in not just Pennsylvania refineries, but all around the Northeast at that time. And her father was sort of caught up in that and was monetarily financially ruined as a result. And sort of. This was sort of the origin story of Ida Tarbell going back. But we also talk about the, you know, obviously, if you're going to talk about power in America, you're going to talk about white supremacy. And so we have pieces on Frederick Douglass and Ida B. Wells. We have, if you got to talk about labor and that subjugation, we have the piece on a. Philip Randolph coming next week, Francis Perkins as well. We have a piece on Ferdinand Pecora, one of my favorites, coming on Monday, about his role on the Pecori Commission to understand the origins of the Great Depression and the perfidy of the great Banking Trust. So I think it's. And then we go on to the present day with people like Judy Hooman, who is one of our prospect patriots. She was a disability rights advocate and really was instrumental in getting all disability rights that exist in the United States into being. And she's a fascinating character. So we tried to really get a really strong cross section of folks who exemplify, I think, the best sort of epitome of the spirit of America.

[Sam Seder]

I can't wait to read that. And also, I gotta recommend for people to read this story about these franchises. I mean, it's just the devastation wreaked on people. It's just, I feel like, as I was reading, I was like, you know, there's so many stories, I. You get the sense there's so many different stories, versions of this story, not necessarily this one franchisee, or really just sort of like largely people getting screwed, that where Everyone does feel isolated. It reminded me of like, when the financial crisis hit, people lost their homes, everybody thought it was their own fault. And it took a long time for people to understand there was something systemic. All right, one last question before you go on the Hill. Like, what's your sense of where we're going in terms of all this budget stuff? I know it's far afield, but I've been out of the loop. It's quite clear the filibuster is not. Reform is not happening because the Republicans are particularly nervous about, I think, the Democrats taking over the Senate. Mitch McConnell hasn't been around much, maybe not at all. But what's your sense of like, where this is headed?

[David Dayen]

Yeah. So, yeah, there's not gonna be filibuster reform. And I think it's not only because Democrats might take over the Senate, but a different kind of set of Democrats might take over the Senate. Like we're gonna see next Tuesday, the Michigan primary and see what Abdul Syed is able to do. And I think that there's a sense of a more activist, a more, you know, more fighting spirit from the Democrats coming up. So it's more of a real fear than kind of a paper tiger kind of fear. This isn't a bunch of Schumer Democrats anymore. So that's number one. Yeah, I mean, I think what's interesting right now is what we're seeing is, so what the Senate wants to do is come up with a way to fund the government after September. So the reconciliation bill is kind of an afterthought whether they're going to increase military spending on a party line vote. But what they want to do in this just sort of continuing resolution is actually kind of fascinating because they want to stop this rule that the Office of Management and Budget put together that would give the Trump administration more discretion to cancel grants, particularly scientific grants, but any really, any kind of federal grant. And we've seen so much news over the last couple weeks about what I would call vengeance based budgeting, where, whether it's FEMA grants or whether it's energy grants, they're being determined based on what state is asking for the money and who would benefit. And it's a way that Donald Trump is punishing his enemies. And the Senate, on apparently a bipartisan basis, is going to put together a continuing resolution that says you can't do that anymore. And so that's really interesting and

[Matt Stoller]

we'll

[David Dayen]

see what happens on that. Cuz is Donald Trump gonna sign that? I'm not sure. And so the to the extent that there's going to be after September 30, in the middle of an election year, a government shutdown, it may be because Donald Trump doesn't want to follow the law as it relates to the power of the pers.

[Sam Seder]

There's a lesson there in terms of being president and attacking incumbents who have primaries who will now basically decide the fate of whatever his legislative agenda is. David Dayen, executive editor of the American Prospect, with full disclosure, I am a supporter, a financial supporter of your magazine. You may be aware, I don't know if you check the email list.

[David Dayen]

Thank you very much for that ten dollar donation.

[Sam Seder]

We appreciate it anytime. I mean, not necessarily on a rolling basis, but. No, it's a, it's a wonderful magazine.

[David Dayen]

It wasn't a recurrence. It was very.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah. Not recurring. I mean, let's not get crazy. Honestly, folks, the American Prospect does amazing work. If you want to have a sense of what policymakers are reading, very easy. Just go to prospect.org great stuff there. And of course, Whitney Wimbush, who does the AIM quickie, wrote that piece on Ida Wells and many pieces, folks. Check it out. Sorry, sorry.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

David, Dan, thanks so much for your.

[David Dayen]

Thanks a lot.

[Emma Vigeland]

Thanks, David.

[Sam Seder]

There you go, folks. Guess we'll head into the fun half.

[Emma Vigeland]

I guess we will.

[Sam Seder]

I've forgotten how to do this.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, I know. It's.

[Sam Seder]

I'm rusty. Very rusty. It's not easy to notice the difference, though. There's a slight bit of rust right around the edges. I try and maintain, even when I'm not rusty, a certain veneer of rust.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Sam Seder]

That way. Lack of polish. Exactly, exactly. Patina podcast. Exactly. It gives a little bit of a margin for error. That's my.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's like a vintage feel. Yeah, right.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah. I mean, that's basically my middle name. Margin for error, folks, it's your support that makes the show possible. You can become a [e-mail] when you do not only get the free show free of commercial, but you also get the fun half. And, oh, I would be remiss to not say hello to one of our producer emeritus who are in studio. Maybe hop on the mic. Just one second, ladies and gentlemen, Brendan. He's. He's forgot what's up to the old listeners.

[Emma Vigeland]

Brendan.

[David Dayen]

Yeah, from like 2017 to 2021.

[Sam Seder]

I still have the key. Do you really?

[Matt Stoller]

All right.

[Emma Vigeland]

Is that how you got it?

[Sam Seder]

You can reach me on social media

[David Dayen]

if you want a copy of the key.

[Sam Seder]

That's right. Handing out or if there's just stuff that you want from the office, Brendan will run down and open it up and steal stuff. So welcome back, Brendan. It's short, short lived, but thanks for stopping by.

[David Dayen]

Of course.

[Sam Seder]

And I'll come back after the show too, to say. Okay, great, great. Also, folks, just coffee co op on my, on the, the, the shoot that I just did, there was a couple of Majora Report fans in the crew.

[Emma Vigeland]

Very cool.

[Sam Seder]

And some of whom get just coffee. Yeah, just coffee co op. Fair trade coffee. You can get the Majority Report blend or you can get the other types of blends or just single origin. Just coffee co op. Matt, what's happening in the Matt Leck media universe?

[Matt Stoller]

Yeah, big show for Jacobin coming up at 3 o' clock Eastern Time right after Majority Report. Today, Mahmoud Khalil talking with David Griscom about his lawsuit against the Trump administration about citing Reconstruction era Klan act, going after the Trump administration for conspiring with private groups like the Canary Mission to suppress the speech of folks who want to criticize Israel. So really big interview. Very big honor to have Mahmoud on the program.

[David Dayen]

Yes.

[Emma Vigeland]

Great guest.

[Sam Seder]

Okay, we will see you in the fun half three months from now, six months from now, nine months from now. And I don't think it's going to be the same as it looks like in six months. And I don't know if it's necessarily gonna be better six months from now than it is three months from now, but I think around 18 months out, we're gonna look back and go like, wow.

[Matt Stoller]

What?

[Sam Seder]

What is that going on? It's nuts. Wait a second. Hold on. Hold on for a second. Emma, welcome to the program. What is up, everyone?

[David Dayen]

No.

[Matt Stoller]

Me key.

[David Dayen]

You did it.

[Sam Seder]

Fun crack.

[Emma Vigeland]

Let's go, Brandon.

[David Dayen]

Let's go, Brandon.

[Sam Seder]

Fun crack. Bradley, you want to say hello? Sorry to disappoint everyone. I'm just a random guy. It's all the boys today.

[Emma Vigeland]

Fundamentally false. No. I'm sorry. Women.

[Sam Seder]

Stop talking for a second and let me finish.

[Emma Vigeland]

Where is this coming from, dude?

[Sam Seder]

But. Dude, you want to smoke this? 7A.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

Hi, Migg.

[David Dayen]

You're safe.

[Sam Seder]

Yes. Is this me? Is it me? It is you. If it's me. A lot of it's me. I think it is you. Who is you? No sound every single freaking day. What's on your mind?

[Emma Vigeland]

Sports.

[David Dayen]

We can discuss free markets and we can discuss capitalism.

[Sam Seder]

I'm gonna go snow white. Libertarians. They're so stupid. Though common sense says of course.

[Emma Vigeland]

Gobbledygook.

[Sam Seder]

We nailed him.

[Emma Vigeland]

So what's 79 plus 21 challenge.

[David Dayen]

Man, I'm positively quivering.

[Sam Seder]

I believe 96. I want to say 8-57-210-855, 011 half. 3, 8, 9, 11.

[Emma Vigeland]

For instance, $3,400. $1,900. 5, 4.

[Sam Seder]

$3 trillion. Sold. It's a zero sum game.

[Emma Vigeland]

Actually. You're making me think less.

[Sam Seder]

But let me say this. You can call it satire.

[David Dayen]

Sam goes to satire. On top of it all.

[Sam Seder]

My favorite part about you is just

[Emma Vigeland]

like every day, all day, like everything you do.

[Sam Seder]

Without a doubt. Hey, buddy, we see you. All right, folks, folks, folks.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's just the week being weeded out, obviously.

[David Dayen]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

Sun's out, guns out. I, I, I don't know.

[Emma Vigeland]

But you should know,

[Sam Seder]

people just don't

[Matt Stoller]

like to entertain ideas anymore.

[Sam Seder]

I have a question. Who cares?

[Matt Stoller]

Our chat is enabled, folks.

[Sam Seder]

I love it. I do love that Mom. Gotta jump. Gotta be quick. I gotta jump. I'm losing it, bro. Two o', clock, we're already late, and the guy's being a dick. So screw him.

[David Dayen]

Gulag.

[Emma Vigeland]

Outrageous.

[Sam Seder]

Like, what is wrong with you?

[David Dayen]

Love you. Bye.

[Sam Seder]

Love you.

[Emma Vigeland]

Bye.

[Sam Seder]

Bye.