3701 - Ohio GOP Abuse scandal; Reconstruction's Black Countermemory w/ Robert Bland

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Majority Report with Sam Seder

Episode 3701 – Ohio GOP Abuse Scandal; Reconstruction's Black Countermemory w/ Robert Bland
Date: August 3, 2026
Host: Sam Seder
Notable Guests: Dr. Robert Bland (University of Tennessee), Emma Vigeland, Matt Lech, Brian Poindexter

---

Episode Overview

This episode tackles two main themes:

1. The unfolding abuse scandal involving Ohio GOP congressman Max Miller and its ripples through the state's Republican circles, including the response by Senate candidate Bernie Moreno.
2. An in-depth conversation with Dr. Robert Bland about his new book, Requiem for Reconstruction: Black Counter Memory and the Legacy of the Low Country's Lost Political Generation, focusing on how Reconstruction has been remembered, misrepresented, and reclaimed, especially in the Black political tradition of the Carolinas and Georgia.

The hosts begin with coverage of current political events before diving into a detailed, thoughtful long-form interview with Dr. Bland.

---

Section 1: Ohio GOP Abuse Scandal

(00:18–19:30)

Key Points:

The Max Miller Allegations

• Congressman Max Miller is facing allegations of domestic abuse from his ex-wife, who has filed for a restraining order.
• Miller released a defensive Instagram video and selectively edited audio, aiming to demonstrate his innocence.
• Emma Vigeland is highly critical of Miller’s tactics, noting the classic patterns of abuser rationalization in his statements.
• Miller's video claims: "If I were a wife beater, would I really be wearing this white tank top?" (06:31)
• Attempts to use normal post-incident behavior by his ex-wife (like cooking dinner or attending shared events) as supposed exoneration.

[07:16] Vigeland: “He’s taking testosterone replacement therapy in his 30s, blocking trans care, while juicing himself up to play the big man, all the while abusing women.”

Republican Response and Political Calculations

• Bernie Moreno, Ohio Senate candidate and Miller’s father-in-law, issues a statement calling for Miller to leave Congress but stops short of demanding his resignation.
• The Majority Report crew calls out Moreno’s delayed action and suggests he only spoke up due to increasing political and public pressure.
• Brian Poindexter, a working-class Democrat, is running against Miller and releases a populist campaign video emphasizing economic struggle.

[17:43] Poindexter: “We’re working harder and harder and we’re getting less and less… What really pisses me off is, we’re struggling to make ends meet and we got a guy on pace to be a trillionaire.”

---

Section 2: Interview – Dr. Robert Bland on Reconstruction and Black Countermemory

(27:22–63:06)

Theme

A deep-dive exploration of Reconstruction history, the strategic marginalization of Black political narratives, and the persistence of “black counter memory” in shaping African American political identity.

---

1. What Was Reconstruction and Why Was It Erased?

[28:12] Bland:

• Reconstruction (1865–1877) represented America’s first concerted effort at multiracial democracy.
• Shaped by the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments but quickly undermined by both top-down (legal) and bottom-up (cultural) resistance.
• Denied proper space in American public education due to Lost Cause mythology and influence from groups like the United Daughters of the Confederacy.

[30:41] Bland: “The Dunning School is both the foundation of the modern historical profession and the foundation for an incredibly dangerous mythological vision of history.”

2. The Low Country’s Central Role

[33:10] Bland:

• Focuses on the South Carolina and Georgia Low Country, which had a large Black majority and saw early and radical action in pursuit of Black political power and land redistribution.
• The Low Country serves as a microcosm for both the hopes and the eventual violent repression of Black political life.

3. Heroic Black Figures: William Whipper & Robert Smalls

[36:24] Bland:

• William Whipper: Northern-born, educated, part of the Black elite, professional politician and judge. Advocated women’s suffrage, symbolizing Reconstruction’s radical possibilities.
• Robert Smalls: Born into slavery, commandeered a Confederate ship to aid the Union, later became a Congressman and major advocate for public education.

[38:01] Bland: “Not enough people know about Robert Smalls—he’s an American hero in many ways.”

4. Black Memory vs. White Myth: Countermemory and the Lost Cause

• Black communities in the South maintained a living, “countermemory” tradition that resisted erasure and misrepresentation.
• Notable commemorations like Decoration Day (the precursor to Memorial Day) originated as Black-led acts to honor Union dead and freedom.

[50:40] Bland: “In 1865...black South Carolinians begin to intern Union dead at a racetrack in Charleston. That holiday becomes known as Decoration Day...a national holiday to remember the war dead...Not just about states’ rights, but about emancipation, about trying to build multiracial democracy.”

5. The Strategic Attack on Black Power: Violence and Gerrymandering

[45:39] Bland:

• The end of Reconstruction in the Low Country wasn’t a single event but an ongoing process of sabotage: massacres (like the Hamburg Massacre), new county creations to dilute Black power, and the invention of racial gerrymandering are highlighted.
• The erasure and distortion of Reconstruction was necessary to justify Jim Crow and establish white dominance for generations.

6. Education and the Fracturing of Black Political Ideology

[52:55] Bland:

• Early Reconstruction leaders founded schools and HBCUs emphasizing liberal education.
• Over time, leaders like Booker T. Washington shifted towards more conservative, industrial education, partly as a survival strategy under Jim Crow, but this also required downplaying Reconstruction’s radical accomplishments.
• Even as these institutions became more conservative, they remained sites of counter-memory, influencing later movements like the Civil Rights era.

7. The Enduring Lessons and Warnings

[60:55] Bland:

• Bland emphasizes the non-linear nature of progress in American history: rights can be gained and lost, and eras of hope (like Reconstruction) can be violently reversed.
• Institutions and memory matter: “Those institutions that might seem small...could be foundations for future movements...can survive the storm for the next political era.”

---

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the tragedy of Reconstruction:

  “[Reconstruction] is the grammar for understanding American history...it is the effort to live up to those highest ideals. It is also the confrontation with white supremacy...that all lead to not only the Jim Crow era, but also the broad anti-democratic world that had to be undone by the New Deal and later the civil rights movement.” (28:12, Bland)

• On the Dunning School and the Lost Cause:

  “Those textbooks were sympathetic to the Confederacy, sympathetic to the myth of the Lost Cause...also told the story of slavery as a beneficent institution...that legacy was undone by folks like Du Bois and John Hope Franklin contesting those myths.” (30:41, Bland)

• On Robert Smalls’ Legacy:

  “Robert Smalls emerges as a national celebrity, speaks for a more grassroots version of democracy...remains in the Low Country, will become a Congressman, will become a general in the state National Guard...not enough people know about Robert Smalls.” (38:01, Bland)

• On Black Countermemory and the Importance of Memorialization:

  "Decoration Day...becomes a kind of national holiday to remember the war dead...not just about states’ rights, but about emancipation, about trying to build multiracial democracy." (50:40, Bland)

• On Strategic Compromise in Black Politics:

  “For those who are fighting for progressive causes...Do you hold on to the ideology, no matter the cost, or do you pursue a strategy where you take half a loaf...You have to hunker down, wait for the tides to change, move from defense to offense.” (57:02, Bland)

• On Enduring Legacies:

  “Institutions that might seem small, might seem insignificant, but also could be foundations for future movements, can survive the storm for the next political era.” (62:40, Bland)

---

Additional Notables

• The crew critiques the Democratic establishment’s ineffectiveness and highlights progressive successes in primary challenges, contextualizing these wins as part of the ongoing struggle against entrenched power and lukewarm centrism.
• The episode connects present-day fights for democracy and memory (like voter suppression and curriculum battles) to the historical arc discussed with Dr. Bland.

---

Useful Timestamps

• Ohio GOP Max Miller Scandal: 04:55–19:36
• Poindexter Congressional Video: 17:43–19:23
• Interview with Dr. Robert Bland Starts: 27:22
  • Reconstruction Basics: 28:12–32:43
  • Low Country Focus: 33:10
  • Whipper & Smalls: 36:24–41:56
  • Port Royal Experiment: 42:07
  • Frances Ann Rowland: 43:58
  • Hamburg Massacre & Gerrymandering: 45:39–50:05
  • Decoration Day/Memorial Day Origins: 50:39
  • Education & Black Intellectuals: 52:33
  • Booker T. Washington Debate: 55:41–59:28
  • Enduring Lessons: 60:55–62:40

---

Summary Conclusion

This densely packed episode weaves together the day’s political urgencies (Ohio GOP abuse, 2026 primaries) with a profound historical investigation into how Reconstruction’s radical promise was systematically erased, and how Black communities have preserved a counter-narrative through memory, institution-building, and political struggle. The interview with Dr. Bland stands out as a wide-ranging, deeply accessible seminar on why historical memory and political resistance are inseparable, timely, and essential for any vision of a just American future.

---

Transcript

[Emma Vigeland]

You are listening to a free version of the Majority Report. Support this [e-mail] and get an extra hour of content daily.

[Sam Seder]

It is Monday, August 3, 2026. My My name is Sam Seder. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, Downtown Brooklyn, USA. On the program today, Dr. Robert Bland, Assistant professor of History and Africana Studies at the University of Tennessee on his latest book, Requiem for Reconstruction, Black Counter Memory and the Legacy of the Low Country's Lost Political Generation. Also on the program today, Trump calls

[Caller/Guest]

off

[Sam Seder]

imminent Iran attacks because of a deal that the Iranians say hasn't even been discussed. Also on the program today, Todd Blanch agrees in writing to rescind the J6 slush fund and to barely narrow the Trump family IRS immunity, paving the way for the support of Republican holdout. Thought I had a surprise. Here it is. Surprise, surprise. Took a while. US Military asks its troops for creative ideas on how to punish the Iranians. Not a fake headline. Bernie Marino, senator from Ohio feeling pressure because of his election with Sherrod Brown coming up in November, says his son in law Max Miller has psychological issues surrounding his attacks on his daughter and should not be a congressperson. Doesn't call for him to drop out explicitly though. How brave Trump media will sell early access to Donald Trump's truth social post to investors looking for an edge for the small price of $100,000. Wildfires ravaged Spokane, Washington and Western Canada. Meanwhile, global temperature jumps trigger more alarms from climate scientists. The DOJ finds the reflecting pool issues a function of a crappy renovation. And drop the charges against the so called reflecting pool vandals. 100% disagree.

[Emma Vigeland]

Jeanine, how could you do this to me?

[Sam Seder]

He's pissed. California Democratic Party endorses the billionaire tax and its primary day tomorrow Kansas, Michigan, Missouri, Virginia and Washington. We will be covering the primary tomorrow night and we will be starting the show. We will have no afternoon show tomorrow. We will start the show at approximately 6.15ish because once we're off noon we don't, we don't subscribe to like specific times.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly that.

[Sam Seder]

We don't do it that way.

[Emma Vigeland]

We want to keep you on the edge of your seat as to when we'll be on air.

[Sam Seder]

Welcome ladies and gentlemen.

[Matt Lech]

Noon when we're always right on time.

[Sam Seder]

Exactly. Sam Cedar, Emma Vigland. No, I'm sorry, Marino is not running against Brown in Ohio. A correction hosted is running against Brown in Ohio. Marino had beaten Brown months ago. But I suspect he's feeling some pressure because it doesn't look good for Husted to. Like there's Marino's the first person who has to criticize Max Miller in the Republican Party. Otherwise no one else has permission to do it. Like, why are you getting out ahead of the guy whose kid it is who's getting abused? And so Marino is getting this pressure to say something. But Marino has some perhaps personal reasons to hesitate.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah, some skeletons in his closet.

[Sam Seder]

Well, I don't know if they're skeletons if they're not. It's just maybe things he doesn't want to get out, but maybe they are skeletons.

[Matt Lech]

Less of a closet than an inbox.

[Sam Seder]

It's exactly. I mean, closet's the operative world.

[Emma Vigeland]

You're right. You're right. Maybe I should call, say he's got some twinks in his closet.

[Sam Seder]

He's got, on one hand, this guy is abusing my daughter, on the other

[Brian Poindexter]

hand,

[Sam Seder]

I mean, my son in law might know some things about me that I'm not trying to be too explicit about. Like how I keep getting pranked by interns who create Grindr accounts on my behalf. You know, that's one of the things I also, I do a similar thing in this. I want everybody to be able to joke.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly.

[Sam Seder]

Like the office.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's for morale.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, it's for morale. And I'm always encouraging people sign me up for Grindr, fraudulently sign me up for some credit cards, use them yourself or something like that, you know, oh, do the old mail a bag of poop to me. It's hilarious.

[Emma Vigeland]

You love it.

[Sam Seder]

People like, yes, man. I like to be humble.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly.

[Sam Seder]

Exactly. Max Miller put out a Instagram video and it's really compelling, showing how innocent he is.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah. His arguments, like, if I were a wife beater, would I really be wearing this white tank top?

[Sam Seder]

Exactly.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, it's literally because the arguments that he makes in this just bolster the idea that he's an abuser, because he sounds exactly like an abuser would sound.

[Sam Seder]

He also, he also has released audio recordings of him and his ex wife, which he believes were exculpatory, but where it's like the water I poured on her was not technically boiling, it came from the tap. And then talking about denying that he had needles that ostensibly were for his

[Emma Vigeland]

TRT, which he's taking in his 30s as he blocks trans care.

[Sam Seder]

Testosterone replacement therapy. In your 30s, you haven't really lost your testosterone as far, you know, as far as I know, but you use it to juice yourself. You can see that he's. His frame is much more, you know, sort of like big than it used to be.

[Emma Vigeland]

So he could feel like a big man as he, you know, breaks the collarbone of his little daughter.

[Sam Seder]

Well, it turns out he didn't break the collarbone. She was afraid that he had.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay, all right, all right.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Matt Lech]

Lola, why was she so worried about that?

[Sam Seder]

You know, there's some people who are just super neurotic about collarbones. Here is Max Miller, and that could drive a guy crazy. Here is Max Miller making it clear. And you know, he's sincere because look at all of the kids pictures that he 100% did not slide into the face of his cabinet doors. Just for the sake of this video,

[Matt Lech]

can we put them in front of me?

[Sam Seder]

The idea that that's where you put your kids art highly suspect, but go ahead.

[Max Miller]

My former wife has claimed that during a custody exchange at my home that day, I assaulted her. Here's what actually happened. And I have the ring doorbell footage that backs it up. She came to my home in a good mood, and we have text messages to prove it, which you'll have to pick up our daughter early for a friend's birthday party. She was inside my house for several minutes when she left. The video shows her walking out, carrying our daughter, calm, in the same good mood, showing no distress whatsoever. And as they left, you can hear me say goodbye. I love you. And I love you, Ruthie. Literally telling my ex wife that I still cared for her. Does that sound like somebody who would just walk out and who had been violently thrown a wall and been abused?

[Sam Seder]

Pause it for a second. Let's ask Ike Turner if that's actually the case.

[Matt Lech]

Off camera, we don't know what happened, but on camera, I was behaving. Everyone was behaving like they put on a face. Yeah, that might have happened.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's also like, the idea that he doesn't register that that might have been a way to prevent further violence is like the height of patriarchal blind spots.

[Matt Lech]

Chilling.

[Sam Seder]

Incidentally, the lawyer, Max Miller's ex wife. Lawyer, has sought a restraining order against this guy.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, and he has a previous accusation of violence from. He was dating Stephanie Grisham, one of the Trump press secretaries from his first term, and she claimed that he slapped her across the face after she accused him of cheating. So, like, this isn't the first woman to even accuse him of violence.

[Sam Seder]

Well, I mean, one never knows. I'm sure the lawyer. The lawyer is probably still friendly with him, too.

[Matt Lech]

She had a good mood on the ring footage. Okay, man, call the police.

[Max Miller]

After that, she didn't go to the hospital, ladies and gentlemen. Do you want to know what she did? She went straight to a child's birthday party. The very next day, we had a friendly phone call about our daughter's upcoming hospital procedure, and I drove in from Washington to be there for it. Six days later, she offered to cook empanadas for me for dinner. Just two days later, after this alleged incident, the day after that, she invited me and my girlfriend, which you'll have in text messages, to join her and our daughter at a playground. And that day, I just went with my former wife to the playground to spend time with our daughter. A week later.

[Sam Seder]

Pause it for a second. On February, also, this guy is reading this. It's like the first time he's read it. I just went. I just went with. My structure is very strange there. I wonder if she's like, please bring your girlfriend so you will be less inclined to hit.

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly. And the fact he's saying that she should have gone to the police, but she went to the children's birthday party, probably with her child to, you know, because she's tasked with the responsibility of keeping this household normal as you freak, like, wreak havoc upon all of us.

[Matt Lech]

This is directed by the same guy. Did Kevin Spacey's Kitchen video.

[Sam Seder]

I mean, angry, too, when you're denying domestic abuse allegations.

[Matt Lech]

Yeah,

[Emma Vigeland]

she cooked for me. That couldn't have been a way to keep the peace in our extremely chaotic

[Sam Seder]

empanada, ladies and gentlemen.

[Emma Vigeland]

I mean, that's what is so amazing.

[Max Miller]

Later on February 15, she wrote to me in her own words, which you will see. I think it's great. You and I are in a friendlier place. She then offered me my more extra overnights with our daughter, which I can prove to every single one of you is recently. Every one of these messages is timestamped on our court sanctioned co parenting app and is all in the packet. Only weeks later did the story of February 1st assault appear. So ask yourself, if I had assaulted her, would she had offered to cook me dinner six days later? Would she have invited me to spend an afternoon at the Plan playground with her and our daughter? Would she have written that we were in a friendlier place? No, she wouldn't have, ladies and gentlemen.

[Emma Vigeland]

Would she have offered to cook for me? Yeah, you know, like, I mean, man, it's like out of the 1950s, the misogyny taking from Trump, who's telling women to smile more it's like we really have gone back so far. And. And the reason he's even in power, by the way, is because Trump endorsed him over a primary challenger in 2022 who had voted for his impeachment. So that's why there, you know, there's also this loyalty to him as well. He's a good soldier for Mr. Trump.

[Sam Seder]

I also didn't like Stephanie Grisham and thought she should be slapped in the face. That's why.

[Emma Vigeland]

Right.

[Sam Seder]

That's the other thing. He had two things going for him. He was compromised. He was compromised. He hit women.

[Emma Vigeland]

She cooked dinner for me. As an act of love. Obviously it wasn't an act of fear to try to placate me as a volatile, violent person around me and my family, since we have to deal with him all the time as the father of my children. Couldn't have been that. It must have been earnest love and the fact that she is servile by nature.

[Sam Seder]

Now, we know this. What do you call it? The. His. What is it? Order. The. It escapes me. The. Was issued, what, like a week or two ago?

[Emma Vigeland]

The restraining order.

[Sam Seder]

The restraining order. And then the. The lawyers won. The lawyers. Restraining order was just two or three days ago. And like every great father, what you do in this situation is you wait and see how it shakes out. And before you say anything. And Bernie Moreno. Moreno has weighed in as a father and husband, I can tell you the last two years have been pure hell for my wife Bridget, our daughter Emily, and our entire family. In the aftermath of Emily's divorce, it has been horrific to watch this play out and pull in full public view while all while knowing an innocent two year old girl is caught in the middle. Our priority has always been protecting our daughter and our granddaughter. Out of concern for the safety of the family. I hope to keep this matter private, but Max Miller's increasingly erratic and dangerous behavior has made that impossible.

[Emma Vigeland]

AKA you were willing to keep this private until it became more embarrassing for you to see. To not stand up for your abused daughter.

[Sam Seder]

Exactly. I had no idea this was going to actually impact me in my public Persona. In which case, if I had known, I would have stepped in earlier. If there had been any basic standards of character required to hold elected office. Max Miller fails them. He should not serve in the House of Representatives. I believe Max Miller needs to seek professional help to end the clear pattern of abuse he has left in his wake. I believe he should not be free to continue endangering others until he does. I ran for office because I wanted to make a difference for the country that gave me every opportunity to succeed and leave this nation. Better for my children and grandchildren. That sacrifice has been especially hard on my wife, Bridget, sacrifice whose big heart and steady support has never wavered. I owe it to her, to Emily, and to my granddaughters to speak the truth now.

[Emma Vigeland]

Oh, wow, you're such a big standup guy with the sacrifice you made by crypto, breaking records, spending money on your behalf. Give me a break.

[Sam Seder]

Parenthetically, when I say I owe it to them to speak the truth now, I mean parenthetically, as opposed to earlier, when it could have actually had some material benefit. But now I see I'm in some political hot water and the Republican Party may want to cut this guy loose, and they can't do it until I come up and speak out about it. The real question is going to be, is Max Miller now going to say, like, hey, let's revisit that Grindr account for a second?

[Emma Vigeland]

Exactly.

[Sam Seder]

But we shall save that for another day. One of the reasons why I think you're going to see the Republicans not call for Max Miller to drop out is because Brian Poindexter, running in Ohio, 7th District, is a pretty strong candidate. And this is looking more and more, particularly in the House side, like a wave year for Democrats. To the extent that we can have wave years anymore. Here is Brian Poindexter for Congress. Here is his launch video.

[Brian Poindexter]

With the way things are going, I don't think working people like you and me are going to hold on much longer. I mean, we're working harder and harder and we're getting less and less. Growing up in the 80s on the west side of Cleveland, we didn't have much, but an honest day's work was enough to provide for your family. My dad was a machinist with the IAM for 46 years. That one job was enough to support a family of eight. That is obviously not possible anymore. I got my first job at a machine shop at 15 years old. I worked seven days a week. It was 1995. I was making six bucks an hour, which at the time wasn't that bad. You know what's really messed up? His minimum wage is barely more than I made over 30 years ago. We're hurting, man. We're hurting just to boost the profit margins of those who have too much. What really pisses me off is we're struggling to make ends meet, and we got a guy on pace to be a trillionaire. Our whole district could be millionaires with the amount of money that one guy is going to accumulate for himself and good people can't even get snap benefits. That's crazy to me. And I'm tired. I am tired of the Republicans who are in the pockets of the rich and the corporations. I'm tired of the sellout Democrats too, the ones who fight for everybody else except for the working people. We have to fundamentally change who has power in our country. The time is now. We don't have time to wait. We got to raise the minimum wage. We got to protect workers. We got to strengthen unions, save Social Security and guarantee health care. I'm Brian Poindexter. I'm a dad. I'm a union iron worker. I'm a Browns fan. I'm a Brook Park City Council member and I'm running for Congress to end this corruption. Our current Congress.

[Sam Seder]

There you go.

[Emma Vigeland]

Boom.

[Sam Seder]

That's pretty good. It's pretty good ad.

[Matt Lech]

I think I know who I'd vote for between him and Max Miller.

[Sam Seder]

Gonna be interesting to see how that plays out. Meanwhile, we have primaries tomorrow. We'll be covering that later in the day. So there'll be no normal show at noon. Will start around 6:15ish. Yes, the classic primary time to start 6:15ish. In a moment we're going to be talking to Dr. Robert Bland, Assistant assistant professor of History and Africana Studies at the University of Tennessee, on to discuss his book Requiem for Reconstruction, A Black Counter Memory and the Legacy of the Low Countries Lost Political Generation. And later in the fun half, although you may hear him during the ad read, we're gonna have a special guest on who's going to. There's an array of things he's probably going to do, I don't know, tell tales out of school. Hopefully will not be one of them. I don't know what he's doing right now. He's probably playing a video game. Hey folks, I want to thank zocdoc for sponsoring today's episode. Zocdoc is a super easy to use site that allows you to find all sorts of doctors. Find one that fits what you want or looking for. You can search doctors both by symptoms. You can search by locality and oh, put him on that microphone over there. If he's gonna talk, he's not gonna be on camera. You can search by symptoms or by locality and by whether they take your insurance or not. Zocdoc is, makes it super easy to hook up with a doctor or a dentist or dermatologist or they have like something like 200 special specialties across all 50 states. They have over 150,000 providers in their database. It is free to use. I used it on the road. I guess it was now a couple years ago when I had a dental emergency. Both Matt and Emma have used it. My child has used it to find a doctor up around her college. And the other great feature is it allows you to book an appointment right there on the site. You get to see exactly what appointments are available. No haggling with the receptionist. Just click and boom, you've got an appointment. Your health matters and taking care of yourself shouldn't be complicated. Find and book the right doctor with Zocdoc. Head to Zocdoc.com Majority to get started. Check that appointment off your to do list that z o c doc.com majority. We will put the link in the podcast and YouTube description. Also sponsoring the program today is Smalls. What is [e-mail] Majority it is a really great, healthy cat food. They have all sorts of snacks. They got special things. And my cat, as this professional assessor of my cat will mention, is extremely picky, isn't he?

[Emma Vigeland]

Can you hear me?

[Sam Seder]

Yes. Yeah.

[Emma Vigeland]

So our cat, Griffin. Yeah, he doesn't eat anything. Like he eats like one. Like he really. Every time we try and get him a new food brand, he won't eat it.

[Sam Seder]

And we use Smalls.

[Emma Vigeland]

And he ate it. He liked it.

[Sam Seder]

So liked it.

[Emma Vigeland]

And he doesn't eat anything.

[Sam Seder]

The broth. He's a very picky eater.

[Max Miller]

All right.

[Matt Lech]

Can I go now?

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, you can go now.

[Emma Vigeland]

Okay, bye.

[Sam Seder]

Bye. Great job. Great job. They've got. They got a broth that you can pour into the food. It like hypercharges it. I mean, it's like chicken broth, right? Or bird broth. A cat loves it also. It's very helpful because that's where cats get most of their hydration is actually from their wet food.

[Emma Vigeland]

Especially for male cats, very necessary.

[Sam Seder]

I didn't realize that.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, they can sometimes have more issues with their urinary tract. So it's good to get them more.

[Sam Seder]

Okay.

[Emma Vigeland]

Hydration.

[Sam Seder]

I didn't know about that. Oh, the other thing is the poops don't stink. The quality of the food, I mean, it makes sense when you think about it. Generally you don't think about it, you know, will impact the quality of the food. I mean, I don't know what to say about this. I mean, okay, I just never thought about it before, but it's true. Here's the great thing. You can try Smalls risk free if you don't. If your cat won't eat their food, they'll refund it to you, no questions asked. These Smalls has food that you would find in your refrigerator, all human grade ingredients. It is delivered right to your door. It is 100% preservative free. You will see a a better coat, a shinier coat and like I say, the poop doesn't smell as much. Stop serving your little carnivore a bowl of processed shortcuts for a limited time because you're a MAJORITY Report listener gets 60 off your first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com majority that's 60% off your first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com majority 60% off your first order plus free shipping and free treats from life when you head to smalls.com majority all right, quick break and we'll be talking to Dr. Robert Bland. It's. We are back, Sam Cedar, Emma Vigland on the Majority Report. Want to welcome to the program Dr. Robert Blandford, Assistant professor of history and Africana studies at the University of Tennessee on his new book Requiem for Reconstruction, Black Counter Memory and the Legacy of the Low Country's Lost Political Generation. Professor, welcome to the program.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Sam, thank you for inviting me. I'm glad to be here.

[Sam Seder]

Let's get into some basics. I mean, I hope this audience has a full understanding of what Reconstruction was, but we always have new people. Just give us the basic outlines of Reconstruction. Obviously, in the wake of the Civil war, we have three reconstruction amendments passed by the radical Republicans, the 13th, 14th and 15th. But there was a lot more happening at least in the states

[Caller/Guest]

for

[Sam Seder]

I guess about 12 years. I mean, you can give us a sense if you have a different timeline, but tell us a little bit more about that.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right, Right, right. I mean, Reconstruction is the effort to rebuild the nation after the Civil War.

[Sam Seder]

Right.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

And it is the top down process that is the Reconstruction Amendments. It is the restitching of the nation's legal and political institutions as well as its cultural fabric and at the grassroots level. Right. It is the first effort to truly make the nation a multiracial democracy. We generally give it the timeline from 1865 to 1877, although some scholars want to push for a long Reconstruction that goes into the 1880s and 1890s. Maybe to put it bluntly. Right. This is a grammar for understanding American history. Right. So in the way that we sometimes understand the arc of the universe, bending towards justice the moral arc of the universe bending towards justice. Reconstruction asks us to take a more tragic view of U.S. history. Right. It is the effort to live up to those highest ideals. It is also the confrontation with white supremacy, with anti democratic practices, with the consolidation of big businesses, the kind of conservative term in the Supreme Court that all lead to not only the Jim Crow era, but, but also the broad anti democratic world that had to be undone by the New Deal and later the civil rights movement.

[Sam Seder]

One of the things that astounds me about Reconstruction is how it has been. And I went to College in the 80s. I think we maybe barely touched on it. I wasn't a history major, but nevertheless, certainly in high school, elementary school, junior high as we called it back then. I don't even know if I heard the word. And we lived in this country with a completely bastardized version of the history that came from that was known as the Dunning School. Just speak about this because this is very much about how Reconstruction,

[Caller/Guest]

how we

[Sam Seder]

came to understand, particularly how folks in the African American community came to understand Reconstruction retrospectively. But, but talk about the, the how in many respects Reconstruction was, was both memory hold and then we had an entire redemption, loss, cause sort of myth. And then the Dunning, the Dunning School and how that went away.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right, right, right. Before going to graduate school, I was a high school social studies teacher. And so there's a practical difficulty of Reconstruction falls at the end of the fall semester or the beginning of the spring semester. So you get maybe a couple days to cover it. But there's a more insidious kind of reason. Most Americans don't learn about it, which is the United Daughters of the Confederacy had a lot of power in controlling textbooks at the turn of the century, up through the 1950s, 1960s. And those textbooks were sympathetic to the Confederacy, sympathetic to the myth of the Lost Cause that not only venerated Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, but also told the story of slavery as a beneficent institution. I'm talking about the various ways that the abolitionists were extremists, characterized the effort to provide African Americans with a political and legal equality as misguided. And that comes from a group of historians also known as the Dunning School. These are the students of William Archibald Dunning, who was a professor at Columbia University, trained in political science. But that training provides really the foundation for modern American history. We don't understand, don't have a historical profession in the United States that takes seriously historiographical arguments, argues and builds on other Legacy and work of historians. So under some ways, the Dunning school is both the foundation of the modern historical profession and the foundation for an incredibly dangerous mythological vision of history that ultimately is undone by folks like W.E.B. du Bois, Carter G. Woodson, John Hope Franklin contesting those myths. Right. That slavery was a beneficial institution, that the Confederacy was not fighting for the protection of slavery, was fighting for states rights, that Reconstruction was this misguided radical effort. And instead. Right. Thinking about the democratic promise of the era, which later historians brought back into our national narratives around us History.

[Sam Seder]

All right, and before we get into sort of the black counter memory and its legacy, let's talk about the low country. Low country, as far as I know, South Carolina, Georgia, some parts of Florida, why focus there as opposed to across other parts of the Confederacy?

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right, right, right. So historians have returned to the low country over and over again. One, it was the site of the largest slave society on the eastern seaboard and one of the most enduring slave societies on the eastern seaboard. Right. It had a black majority that the contemporaries of the time noted the planters had an absentee system where these kind of large rice and indigo and cotton plantations were left absentee, while the great planter class lived in places like Charleston and Beaufort and Savannah. These are the architects of the secession. The Civil War begins because these planters, these politicians have the deepest criticisms about the Declaration of Independence, about this idea of all men being created equal. And later, Right. During the Civil War, Northern abolitionists, northern missionaries traveled to the South Carolina low country precisely because it has this black majority. Because the planter class there was defeated early on in the Civil War. It was the first place where people began what we call wartime Reconstruction. This is the effort to establish a post slavery society. It is the beginning of a postbellum world, the world we call Reconstruction. And so to understand Reconstruction, historians have turned to the low country over and over again. Because all the themes that we understand is happening in important Reconstruction begin in the low country with regards to the destruction of slavery, the kind of France, expansion of universal manhood suffrage, rebuilding the economy of the south, the Freedmen's Bureau, as well as the kind of enduring power of the Confederacy and kind of the way that they bided their time until they got to this era we now call redemption, where they use incredible amounts of paramilitary violence to overthrow multiracial democracy in the South.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, as we get into this, I just want people to keep into mind that we had like maybe a dozen major, I don't know what else to call them, like Programs, political violence to take out black political class, some instances, moneyed class. And South Carolina was one of those sites. In South Carolina, like you say, had the largest black population, freedmen population, I guess. And so they had the most success politically. I think it's South Carolina and Mississippi, if I remember correctly, had the largest black populations and significant black political power. And when it became clear to them they couldn't get rid of it through politics, they move on to essentially, you know, war, and the federal government is nowhere to be found. But so let's get into some of the people that you focus on in that era. Two names stick out for me is Whipper, William Whipper and Robert Smalls. Tell us who they were.

[Matt Lech]

Right?

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right. So William Whipper, Robert Smalls, really represent two ends of the counter memory of Reconstruction that is emerging in the black world in the late 19th and early 20th century. William J. Whipper is born in the North. He's the nephew of a prominent black abolitionist. He travels to South Carolina as part of a United States Colored Troops, remains as an agent as the Freedmen's Bureau, serves in the state legislature, will become later a judge in the kind of low country probate court. He in many ways embodies a cohort that I call the Reconstruction generation.

[Brian Poindexter]

Right.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

A group of black Northerners who see the wheels of history turning at this very moment during the Civil War and during Reconstruction, and wants to take a part in that.

[Brian Poindexter]

Right.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Kind of see his generation's political project in the same way that many who kind of traveled to Mississippi during the 1960s, 1970s, saw Freedom Summer as a kind of generational historical project. He's educated. He's a little bit of an elitist. He is in a lot of ways. Right. A kind of represents this emerging talented 10th that W.E.B. du Bois sometimes talks about. On the other side, you have Robert Smalls, who's born into slavery, who is working in the Charleston ports at the time of the Civil War and embarks on one of the most heroic feats that we've seen in kind of U.S. history. Right. Kind of at the dead of night, takes a Confederate ship alongside his family, navigates that ship past several Confederate checkpoints, masters all the kind of signals that you need to master to kind of get past those checks when delivers that ship to the Union Navy. Right. This is a kind of made for Disney movie. In some ways.

[Sam Seder]

It's crazy, crazy story.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right? Right. Not enough people know about Robert Smalls. He's an American hero in many ways, remains in the low country, will become a congressman will become a general in the state National Guard, will be a kind of prominent leader in the Republican Party well into the 1880s, 1890s, and will be an appointed collector of the customs in the port of Beaufort, well, until 1912, when Woodrow Wilson effectively segregates the federal government. Robert Smalls emerges as a national celebrity, speaks for a more grassroots version of democracy. Again, never formally educated. Comes from a Gullah Geechee group in the Low country that has more Africanisms, can tie their cultural heritage in many ways to a kind of deeper, more robust grassroots democracy. And putting them together, they often were political enemies. They confronted each other at various moments in both Washington, D.C. and the low Country. But they were critical in kind of ultimately forming a dialectic that produced a larger story of the Low country that I think is the foundation for what we understand as modern African American history. And that story becomes a central story.

[Sam Seder]

Well, one thing I want to note about Smalls, he authored the law that basically started mandatory public schools in this country in South Carolina. And, you know, people should understand the reason why you see people who are hostile to racial parity in this country go after the Department of Education is because they know fundamentally one of the first sort of building blocks of building the society that the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments envision was public school. And that's where we. The idea of it being for everybody came from. In one note about. About Whipper. Whipper strikes me. When I was reading about Whipper in your book, he struck me as like, almost like a. There were whispers of Daniel Moynihan, or in Daniel Moynihan, who was a senator from New York, obviously, you know, but who had this notion of, like, there's a cultural moral deficit that is, you know, not the fault of black people, but it exists there that would. That. That had their moment in, I guess, the 80s. Maybe it was. I can't remember now, but Whipper had some of that as well.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right, Right. No, I think you can tie a William Whipper to a WEB Boys, early WEB Du Bois. You can tie him to almost think about the Bill Cosby pound cake speech. There is a conservative strand. Right. Again, he's also a person who is fighting for women's right to vote in the South Carolina state Constitution. So his elitism is a tricky thing to kind of put in a kind of 20th, 21st century context. And again, Robert Smalls is also a figure who in some ways, I can see connecting to someone like a Jim Clyburn. Right. Kind of a figure who on the one hand, has Incredible power, understands how the inner workings of politics happen, but also upsets many of the younger generation who are more politically radical than him, want to push the Republican Party in a more progressive direction. And Robert Smalls, in many ways, like a lot of the political figures of his generation, sees party loyalty above ideology in some ways.

[Sam Seder]

Tell us a little bit about, like, as we go through the sort of. The book, the Port Royal Experiment.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right, right. The Port Royal Experiment is that moment where many of these northern missionaries, white and black, travel to the South Carolina Sea islands during the 1860s, 1862, 1863, and begin establishing a post slavery society. It's most famously documented by a historian by the name of Willie Lee Rose, who writes a book called the Rehearsal for Reconstruction. And my book, in many ways, rifts and kind of is in conversation with her work. But these are teachers like Laura Towne, a white woman from Massachusetts who's kind of one of the most radical abolitionists of her day, founds the first black school in the south in 1862, the Penn School. That's still on St. Helena island in South Carolina. No longer a school, but is a historical center. You have many people who are going to the South Carolina Lowcountry to take part in building churches and providing other types of educational institutions. This is the work of the Freedmen's Bureau a little bit later. And then there is the just broader project of bringing what we might call free labor ideology. This is the vision at the center of the modern Republican Party that says instead of building a society based on slave labor, based on coercion, we can build a society built on contracts, built on schools, building about kind of people building, pulling themselves up from their bootstraps. Right. This is the vision of Abraham Lincoln. This is the vision of a figure like Salmon P. Chase. This is the vision that the Republican Party begins the war in 1861, saying that if you're going to build a society, a morally superior society in the south, you build it on this economic and political foundation.

[Sam Seder]

And in that era. Also tell us about Frances Ann Rowland.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right, right. Frances Ann Rowland is a fascinating and remarkable figure. She's born free in South Carolina to one of the prominent free black communities in the South. She's educated in Philadelphia, returns to the South Carolina low country during the Civil War precisely because it was this place where so much political firmament was happening, because there was so much energy in the area. She starts off as a teacher. She writes a biography. A prominent black abolitionist by the name of Martin Delaney. She has to hide her Name calls herself Frank instead of Francis. When she writes that biography, but founds a newspaper, she's going to marry William James Whipper. She is going to, in many ways, Right. Represent a kind of feminist tradition that is in this Reconstruction generation. And she's going to remain involved in politics. She's going to move to Washington D.C. in the night in the 1880s, take part in that kind of black elite literary world. She will be one of the contributors to long desired Encyclopedia of Black America. Right. So her life, her journey in many ways captures the march not only towards multiracial democracy, but also preserving this counter memory, this history of Reconstruction that is being erased at the same time by the loss caused by the Dunning School, by those violent redeemers in the South.

[Sam Seder]

When we move through, into the next era, I guess as the beginnings of the remembering of, of Reconstruction happen,

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

walk

[Sam Seder]

us through some of the key moments in that and how they're reconstructed. You have the hamburg massacre in 1876 and the attempts to. To minimize black political power by the creation of new counties. I mean, I guess we see that, see a lot of that today with some form of redistricting. I mean, walk us through that era as the success of Reconstruction is now being undermined.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right, right, right. So this is one of these historical questions that remains evergreen. Right. When did Reconstruction end? And in places like Mississippi and Georgia, when you get to the early 1870s, republican government had already been overthrown. Right. This is the moment of the Republican Party being the party of freed people, being the party of multiracial democracy. In South Carolina, you have the Hamburg Massacre, you have this big 1876 election. Ruther Hayes is sitting below the threshold to receive the necessary electoral college votes. South Carolina is one of those states where both the Republican and Democratic Party say they've won the presidential election. Louisiana, Florida are also in that basket. There's a lot of debate about was there a compromise of 1877? And to the extent that the Republican Party pulls out of troops and they largely leave the south to the Democratic Party, that is true. But in places like the Low country, in places like North Carolina, Wilmington, you have a few political districts, a few congressional districts where black political leaders can still hold local power, still send delegates to the state House, and still send congressmen like Robert Smalls to Washington, this is again, not a triumphant battle. You still have groups like the red shirts committing paramilitary violence in the 1870s, those who are eschewing violence saying, we don't want to use too much violence because that will bring the federal Government back to the south, you begin to see gerrymandering. And one of the arguments I'm making in the book is that to find the origins of racial gerrymandering, you have to really look at this specific moment in Reconstruction as well as the redrawing of districts. Beaufort county is really the black hub of political power in the South Carolina country. And in the late 1870s, that district is cut in half. And the half that has a higher white population is named after Wade Hampton becomes Hampton County. And Hampton is a slaveholder. He was a general in the Confederacy. He's the first Democratic governor of South Carolina after Reconstruction, even though Reconstruction continues to persist in the Low Countries. So we can see that Jim Crow doesn't happen all at once. The Low country remains a kind of site where Republican Party rule continues. But this battle over Reconstruction is an important story in the late 19th century. It continues. And the struggle doesn't end all at once.

[Sam Seder]

I mean, it's sort of shocking that 140 years later or so we still haven't figured out how to deal with racial gerrymandering.

[Caller/Guest]

Right.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

No, this is. I mean, it often overlaps. Right. They didn't have that language. They obviously didn't have the constitutional protections. The people raised red flags at the time that this clearly is anti Democratic. This is something that violates, if not the letter, the spirit of the 15th Amendment. But it often kind of fell in that same kind of category that the Supreme Court recently used, that this is part of what the Constitution says about political redistricting, that political power, political parties, state political parties have the right to rewrite their districts every 10 years in response to the census. And so this is a kind of persistent force in American political life, American political history.

[Sam Seder]

So as we move through this sort of end of Reconstruction and the sort of like, I guess what in retrospect we know, maybe they didn't realize at the time was the post Reconstruction era. Smalls is the last Reconstruction Congressman tell us of Decoration Day, where. A month or two out, I guess, from Memorial Day. But I don't know that people are aware of Memorial Day's origins.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right. Right.

[Matt Lech]

Right.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Now, this is one of the great discoveries of David Blight and his historical masterpiece on racial reunion. In 1865, on the kind of weekend that we now know as Memorial Day, black South Carolinians begin kind of to intern union dead at a racetrack in Charleston. That holiday becomes known as Decoration Day. It kind of expands beyond just South Carolina, becomes a kind of national holiday to remember the war dead in The Low country in particular, it becomes this really important holiday to preserve the Union memory, the memory of a war. Not just about states rights, not just about manly, heroic valor, but about emancipation, about trying to build multiracial democracy. And up Until World War I, you had thousands of people, sometimes tens of thousands of people, descending on the Low country to not only honor the Union dead, there's a national cemetery in the Low country, one of the few national cemeteries that was in the former Confederacy. But you also have people who are treating this like a grand holiday, right? This is one of these places where there's a social component, a cultural component, right? This is a kind of place where people feel the spirit of freedom, feel the spirit of emancipation, right? It is in many ways a lost holiday, because after 1915 or so, right? We have birth of a nation, you have segregation spreading across the South. Decoration Day shrinks in the Low country, across the south, it becomes a segregated holiday before essentially disappearing from our cultural vocabulary. But in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, this was probably one of the most important holidays in the black South.

[Sam Seder]

Then let's talk about the sort of changes in education and how as we exit Reconstruction, there's a. Within the sort of black intellectual class, a split on how to sort of perceive Reconstruction and talk about that and its implications.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Well, as you mentioned earlier, Sam, Robert Smalls, one of these architects of the Reconstruction generation, is a firm believer in public schools, helps found one of the first public schools for black school children in South Carolina. Laura Towne, the white abolitionist I mentioned before, founds one of the first black schools in the south for black school children in the South Carolina low country. Education is the cornerstone of the Reconstruction generation, right? During slavery, enslaved people were not allowed to learn to read or write, right? The kind of formal education was something denied and that ability to access that really embodied this specific idea of freedom. You also have a kind of wide swath of historically black colleges that are formed during this moment. Howard University, Howard Law School, Fisk, many other historically black colleges. At the turn of the century, as the Reconstruction generation begins to pass away, you have a changing of the guard, right? You go from a kind of Reconstruction generation that emphasizes liberal arts education, academic training, to a vision held by someone many of your viewers and listeners would know. Booker T. Washington, who has a more conservative vision of education, wants to emphasize industrial training, vocational skills. He comes out of a school called Hampton. What was in the Hampson Institute is now Hampton University. The founder of Hampton is incredibly hostile towards Reconstruction. And Booker T. Washington inherits some of that hostility. And one of the things they do is they set their sight on many of these schools that were founded across the south during Reconstruction. And they transform not only the education and the curriculum, but the historical memory. They try to transform these institutions into vehicles for a more conservative political and educational class. And this, again, is strategic. This is a moment where Jim Crow is the law of the land, where disfranchisement has happened. If you're going to have a school that is going to get support from local white elites, you have to forget Reconstruction. And yet, at the same time as these teachers who are trained by Booker T. Washington and trained at Hampton, who have maybe some conservative ideals, they're confronting people like Robert Smalls, who's still alive. They're confronting former Reconstruction politicians who are donating land and helping found buildings. The Penn School, which again begins as a radical Reconstruction institution, is transformed by Booker T. Washington and becomes a more conservative industrial school, ultimately has a building named after a Reconstruction congressman, the Gantt Cottage. And that cottage is one of the places where Martin Luther King crafts the I have a Dream speech. Right. So we can think about the counter memory of Reconstruction moving forward. In many ways, that first reconstruction becomes the foundation for the civil rights movement, which some scholars call the second reconstruction.

[Sam Seder]

Analyze for me that decision that is strategic. I mean, I, you know, difficult to judge in that moment when you're talking about first generation or, you know, the second generation at best, freed slave, freedmen, you know, and education is hugely important. And the primary mission is to try and develop some type of, if not political power, because it's already been sort of violently ripped from you, but at least some type of economic power and some type of status within the context of society. So easy on some level to understand that we've got a compromise here because we have not many roots. But what were the implications of the black community also making these sort of calculations to understate the success of Reconstruction and to sort of validate some of the critiques of it as a compromise of going forward with being able to maintain the existence of these institutions.

[Matt Lech]

Right.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

I mean, this is, Rick, the story

[Caller/Guest]

of

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

political history in the United States. Right. For those who are fighting for progressive causes. Right. Do you hold on to the ideology, no matter the cost, or do you kind of pursue a strategy where you take half a loaf, where you build where you are, you build a base in hard times, you have to hunker down. You have to kind of wait for the tides to change, to kind of really change your strategy, move from defense to offense, right? In a lot of ways, Booker T. Washington is a defensively minded thinker, right? He is building institutions that will receive donations from the Rockefellers and the Carnegie's and the kind of industrial elite who are also abandoning Reconstruction, right? This is a moment in history where the Republican Party, which what's once been the party of abolitionism, what had once been the party of radical Republicanism, again, not the majority, but a strong wing of the Republican Party. And by the time you get to the 1890s, early 20th century, right, you see, this is the party of imperial expansion. This is the party of big business. This is the party of the gold standard. And certainly in the south, right. This is a moment where the solid south emerges, where the populist and kind of democratic movements that were trying to build multiracial democracy among poor whites and poor blacks have been largely defeated by the conservative oligarchs, the new south business leaders. And so there's not a lot of room to navigate, right? Booker T. Washington is one of the few figures, right? And again, this is giving Booker T. Washington a lot of country. But if you were to be generous to Washington, you highlight the fact that he is living in an era where it is very difficult to imagine progressive politics in the American south and that any direction you're going to build something for black Southerners is going to have to navigate between Scilla and Charbotis.

[Sam Seder]

Because at that time too, we realize, we realize, but it's realized by folks at that time like the cavalry is literally not coming. Like the federal government has already said, we don't. We're not getting involved in essentially the trampling of the, the spirit, if not the letter of these new constitutional amendments, right?

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

The last moment for that Calvary arrive would have been the early 1890s where there was a federal elections bill before the Congress and there was certainly kind of that last guard of the radical Republicans pushing for it and Robert Smalls kind of advocating in the national press there are crimes against people's political rights happening. When that bill is kind of stifled in the US Senate, when Mississippi and South Carolina rewrite their constitutions to allow literacy tests, other disfranchisement measures like grandfather clauses. You have a world where it is nearly impossible to imagine the federal government protecting the political rights of those in the South.

[Sam Seder]

As we wrap up what, thematically, in terms of the. Because in many respects this is an intellectual history of, centered around how an idea, or I should say how like an era disappears or lives on in various ways as a, as A historian of ideas. What are the lessons in terms of what makes things, what carries ideas through time?

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Right, right. I'll begin with this. I'll end with this story. I mentioned that I was a high school social studies teacher. I taught high school social studies in Jackson, Mississippi. And the high school was named Jim Hill High School. And it was named after James Hill, the last black legislator to serve in the Mississippi State House before Jim Crow officially disfranchised and removed black political power in that state for a century. That school was on lynch street, which was named after John Roy lynch, the last black congressman to serve in the Mississippi for Mississippi in the US Congress. Until you get to the post voting rights era again, we can think about history going backward. Reconstruction in many ways provides us a grammar understanding that American history can go backward at any given moment. The generation of political change can be reversed. And we're in many ways seeing that right now with the kind of undoing of the Voting Rights Act. And yet right people understand that in these moments you can bide your time. You can build counter histories and counter memories and institutions in places like Mississippi, in places like South Carolina, places that were hubs of secessionism, that were hubs of Jim Crow, that we're architects of the kind of current political order that is moving us away from the Obama era and the third Reconstruction. And so in a moment where many folks who are fighting for multiracial democracy, fighting for political equality, fighting for a more expansive social democracy for all, you can kind of imagine that base building effort, right? Those institutions that might seem small, might seem significant, but also could be foundations for future movements can survive the storm for the next political era.

[Sam Seder]

It's fascinating stuff. Dr. Robert Bland, assistant professor of History and Africana Studies at the University of Tennessee. The book is Requiem for Reconstruction, Black Counter Memory and the Legacy of the Low Countries Lost Political Generation. We'll put a link to that at Majority FM and in the podcast in the YouTube descriptions. Thanks so much for your time today. Really appreciate it.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Thank you. Have a good one.

[Emma Vigeland]

Thank you so much.

[Sam Seder]

All right, folks, we're going to take a quick break and then head into the fun half. Maybe what we'll do is up front have a hear something from our special guest and he'll go away and then come back a little bit later towards the very end. Okay, folks, just a reminder, it's your support that makes this show possible. You can become a member by going to jointhemajorityreport.com when you do, you not only get the free show, free of commercials. But you also get the fun half. Don't forget tomorrow we're going to be starting the program 6:15 ish ish on the dot, right on the nose of 6:15 ish.

[Emma Vigeland]

So don't be right if you, you know, we're not gonna be six.

[Sam Seder]

It's gonna be right on the nose of 6:15ish.

[Matt Lech]

I know what on the nose means.

[Sam Seder]

Huh? It's gonna be on and around the nose.

[Emma Vigeland]

Gonna be on the face somewhere.

[Sam Seder]

Somewhere on the face of 6:15ish. PM Eastern. Tomorrow we're gonna do our show and just roll it into our coverage of the Michigan primary is going to be the big one. Obviously. The press, as it were, the mainstream press.

[Caller/Guest]

The

[Sam Seder]

conventional wisdom has it that if Abdul Al Said wins, it really is a watershed moment for progressives in this country because Michigan is considered particularly, you know, when you talk about statewide like a purplish state.

[Brian Poindexter]

And,

[Sam Seder]

and so this is going to be a big deal tonight. And be assured, folks like Jim Carvel or James Carvel and all these sort of a centrist will be talking about how Michigan is really not really relevant.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

Because it's not coastal, it's not purple enough. Well, you know, it's first it was like, well, it's New York. And then, and we're gonna, you know, we have a very progressive candidate now in Maine as well and Troy Jackson, but of course that's coastal. And then Michigan, Well, Michigan, so close to the Great Lake is like, honestly, you look at it, you think, think

[Emma Vigeland]

like this isn't great, is basically an ocean.

[Sam Seder]

They're going to be like, well, when's a progressive going to win in a place like, you know, Mississippi, Tennessee?

[Emma Vigeland]

How about that? That might actually be a test case just 48 hours later because there's Justin Pearson who's going to be on the ballot on a Thursday in Tennessee. You know, they're trying to make it as difficult for people to vote as possible by not putting it on the traditional Tuesday. But you have Pearson after Ben had

[Matt Lech]

a good show in Tennessee earlier in the year too. And I'll just say like the center set think that maybe if it was a less DSA candidate, they would have won. I think that probably, no, I think she probably had a better chance because

[Emma Vigeland]

of her the organizing with dsa. If you don't have the name recognition like Abdullah Sayed does because he's run statewide, he's been an elected, he's been an official in the state of health officials official. DSA has shown so far to be an advantage for those kinds of candidates.

[Matt Lech]

Abdul is not dsa.

[Emma Vigeland]

Well, that's what I'm saying. But I'm saying his name recognition is an exception in terms of his platform. But there have been, you know, candidates who haven't had his platform or who have had DSA type platforms but don't have name recognition like Gonzalez in that, in that Colorado race. I keep using that as an example who could have maybe benefited because she was outspent like 16 to 1 from DSA Infrastructure because she didn't have the name recognition.

[Sam Seder]

I would also say that I think, like, it's probably even more problematic to not have that support when there is a high profile DSA candidate running in the same election, not necessarily against it, but so like the energy didn't go

[Emma Vigeland]

to hero says it did. Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

But this will be really interesting. And the other thing that I have to say, and I'm sure we'll get into this tomorrow night, that has been absent from all the media that is around sort of like this progressive surge is the abject failure on their own terms of the Democratic establishment. I mean, Janet Mills, Haley Stevens, these were the most prominent picks by Kristen Gillibrand and Chuck Schumer.

[Emma Vigeland]

And we'll see with Angie Craig next week in Minnesota.

[Sam Seder]

And total flameout. I mean, just abject failure. And the important thing to take from this is that the argument of electability and leave it to the professionals, has completely fallen apart. To the extent that we have seen victories from the more progressive wing of the Democratic Party or, you know, or those who are playing in that wing. Part of it is ideological. Part of it is just a sort of like sense. Although, you know, it's certainly been adopted by the moderates, as it were, this idea of legitimately fighting. But a big part of it is there is been a complete hollowing out of that apparatus.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

In part because there's a complete lack of sort of like reason that they're running well. You know, like, why was Janet Mills running battle tested? She couldn't exactly. She had no, she had no reason that she was running well. Like what is she said I'll see you in court to Donald Trump and it went viral. No, I understand why Chuck Schumer thought she was good, but like, why was she to do what? Like there's a complete absence of an, a vision or an agenda.

[Emma Vigeland]

But Brian's been pointing this out a lot how. And now I can't stop noticing it. Every other sentence, Haley Stevens that comes out of her mouth is about how she's Gonna run through something and just be very violent.

[Caller/Guest]

Nothing.

[Emma Vigeland]

It's in the abstract and work hard and.

[Sam Seder]

But there's no agenda. You gotta fight.

[Emma Vigeland]

But there's no agenda to fight.

[Sam Seder]

But they have nothing to fight.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

Shadow box.

[Emma Vigeland]

But that's also so like then you just take why that has no credibility is one. Maybe in the past it would have been sufficient to fight Donald Trump just to be the fighter I'm proven to be fighting. Right. In 2018. But they don't have the credibility on fighting Donald Trump. So then now they don't have credibility on policy either. So it benefits. Abdul Al said in two ways. They don't have the credibility to fight Trump if that's your like more shallow litmus test as a Democratic primary voter. But then you're also then more primed to listen to policy arguments from the people that have more credibility on fighting Donald Trump.

[Matt Lech]

And what world are you trying to create even outside of Trump because Trump's gonna die? Like what world has from like Bill Clinton onward, What world have they been trying to create? Like the world where we cut Medicare and the corporations come in and employ people like this is. This is a Republicans. We've said this all the time. Like they have a vision. It's like feds in the streets chasing immigrants.

[Emma Vigeland]

Yeah.

[Matt Lech]

And starting wars. What is the actual vision for any like establishment Democrat besides, let's ask the donors what they want from Congress this year.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

We'll get more into this later in the program. Also, folks. Just coffee co op, fair trade coffee, hot chocolate. Use your coupon code. Majority get 10% off will be. Oh, Matt, what's happening in the mat? It's just coffee co op. We'll put the link obviously in the show notes. Matt.

[Matt Lech]

Yeah. Patreon.com left reckoning. David Griscomb and I did a Sunday show for patrons. We talked about Sam Altman literally saying we're very close to developing a genie that can grant any wish with AI. And I'll just say we are not close to that. And you will not see that. You will not see that.

[Sam Seder]

Oh, come on.

[Matt Lech]

You won't see Mars either. Like you're not seeing any of this. Let's. How about we get healthcare and stop thinking about data centers on the moon.

[Sam Seder]

Well, I like I walk into the office today, I saw Matt rubbing his computer three times.

[Matt Lech]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sam Seder]

Sam already wasted one on a whistleblower, I think probably down to two wishes.

[Matt Lech]

We also talk about Shyama Sawant's media tour and why we haven't commented publicly on her run, which is as a favor to her because we don't believe in it, but we would love to be proven wrong.

[Emma Vigeland]

So I love how tech went from promising, like, sci fi things on Mars to promising literal magic with genies.

[Matt Lech]

No. Five more years. Just give it five more years.

[Emma Vigeland]

And they think we're all so dumb.

[Matt Lech]

I wish. Just ask the computer what you want. And if it's like, I want to own my hometown, it's like, oh, well, it's kind of a tough wish. I don't know if, like, our computer chips can do that for you.

[Sam Seder]

See you in the fun half. You are in for it. All right, folks. 6, 4, 6, 2, 5, 7, 3, 9, 2 0. See you in the fun half. Are you ready? Who sent us this?

[Caller/Guest]

Alpha males are back, back, back, back, back Boy is back and the alpha males are back, back Just as delicious

[Sam Seder]

as you could imagine the alpha males

[Caller/Guest]

are back, back, back, back, back Boy is back and the alpha males are back, back, back, back Just wanna degrade the white man Alpha males are back,

[Sam Seder]

back I take all of it to

[Caller/Guest]

my throat Alpha males are back, back,

[Sam Seder]

back, back Snowflake says what?

[Caller/Guest]

The alpha males are.

[Sam Seder]

You are a madman.

[Caller/Guest]

And the alpha males are back, back.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

Oh, no.

[Sam Seder]

Sam Cedar.

[Matt Lech]

What a. Whoa.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

What a nightmare.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, or a couple of them. Just put them in rotation.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

DJ, dinner.

[Matt Lech]

Well, the problem with those is they're, like 45 seconds long, so I don't know if they're enough breaks.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

That's nonsense.

[Sam Seder]

You see white people doing drugs that look worse than normal white people. And all white people look disgusting.

[Caller/Guest]

And the alpha males psycho them.

[Sam Seder]

Snowflake says, what? What, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what? Snowflake says, what

[Caller/Guest]

a hell of a lot of bank. A hell of a lot of bank. A hell of a lot of bank.

[Sam Seder]

Okay, I'm making stupid money.

[Caller/Guest]

Hell of a hell of a lot of bank. A hell of a lot of bank.

[Sam Seder]

All lives matter. Have you tried doing an impression on a college campus?

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

I think that there's no reason why reasonable people across the divide can't all agree with this Psych.

[Caller/Guest]

And the alpha males are back, back, back, back, back, back and the Africans are black, black, black, black, black, African and the alpha males are black, black, black, black Africa.

[Sam Seder]

When you see Donald Trump out there, doesn't a little part of you think that America deserves to be taken over by jihadists? Keeping it 100.

[Caller/Guest]

Can't knock the hustle.

[Max Miller]

Come on.

[Brian Poindexter]

Them.

[Sam Seder]

Them things I do for the bigger game plan.

[Dr. Robert Blandford]

By the way, it's my birthday. My birthday.

[Sam Seder]

Happy birthday to me, Jew boy. I have a thought experiment for you.

[Caller/Guest]

And the alpha males are back, Back. Africans are black. Black Alpha males are black. Black Africans are back, back.

[Sam Seder]

Come on, come on, come on. Someone needs to pay the price for blasphemy around here. I am a total.