Chamber 44: 5

Summary

The Man Who Calculated Death: Chamber 44 - Episode 5 Summary

Release Date: April 8, 2025
Host: Suzanne Rico
Podcast: PodcastOne
Episode: Chamber 44: 5

---

1. Unveiling Family Secrets

The episode begins with Suzanne Rico receiving a life-altering call in 2013: her mother, Gabriele, is on her deathbed and entrusts Suzanne and her sister, Stephanie, with the task of completing her unfinished memoir about her tumultuous World War II childhood. This request sets them on a journey to uncover deep-seated family secrets, particularly concerning their grandfather, Robert Lesser, an inventor who worked for the Third Reich.

Key Quote:

Suzanne Rico [00:00]: “Hi, everyone, it's Suzanne Rico. Just a quick reminder that new episodes of The Man Who Calculated Death are available for free every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts.”

2. The Mysterious Knight's Cross

As Suzanne and Stephanie delve into their mother's past, they stumble upon a photograph of Robert Lesser adorned with the prestigious Knight's Cross, the highest military honor in Nazi Germany. Confused by the absence of this accolade in Gabriele’s memoir, they seek answers from their Aunt Heidi.

Key Quote:

Heidi [03:32]: “It knighted him. The Knight’s Cross for Kreiper Cross. It gave him the right to call themselves Von Lissa.”

The discovery of a confidential telegram signed by Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring reveals that Lesser was commended for his role in developing the V1 "vengeance weapon," linking him directly to the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.

Key Quote:

Suzanne Rico [05:32]: “But when I noticed the date, the telegram's purpose becomes crystal clear. Hermann Göring sent it. On June 21, 1944, three days after V1 scored a direct hit on the Guards chapel. The Knight's Cross was my grandfather's dark reward.”

3. Exploring Mittelbau Dora

Determined to understand the full extent of her grandfather's involvement, Suzanne and Stephanie visit the former concentration camp, Mittelbau Dora, where V1 and V2 rockets were manufactured using forced labor. Their exploration reveals the brutal conditions endured by 60,000 prisoners who were subjected to inhumane treatment while producing Hitler’s vengeance weapons.

Key Quote:

Narrator [09:13]: “The Holocaust. Dora Hel. The camp called Dora Hel was established in 1943... 60,000 people in total worked at Dora during its two-year operation.”

The sisters observe remnants of the production lines and the grim memorials that honor the 20,000 prisoners who perished, deepening their understanding of the human cost behind Lesser's technological contributions.

4. Confronting the Past with Oscar Jacob

In a pivotal moment, Suzanne connects with Oscar Jacob, a 91-year-old Holocaust survivor who was imprisoned at Mittelbau Dora. Their meeting provides a personal and emotional account of the horrors experienced by the laborers, including the relentless brutality of the SS guards and the inhumane working conditions.

Key Quote:

Oscar Jacob [35:26]: “So much collateral damage. Yeah. Yeah.”

Oscar shares his traumatic experiences, including the forced assembly of V1 rockets under the constant threat of violence and death, offering a stark contrast to Suzanne's inherited legacy.

Key Quote:

Oscar Jacob [32:51]: “Every 12-hour shift he had to drill 500 rivets or the SS guards beat him with their rifle butts.”

5. Emotional Reconciliation and Reflections

The conversation between Suzanne and Oscar transcends mere historical inquiry, fostering a deep emotional connection as they navigate the complex legacy of Robert Lesser. Oscar expresses remorse and seeks understanding, while Suzanne grapples with reconciling her family's past with the atrocities committed under her grandfather's inventions.

Key Quote:

Oscar Jacob [36:56]: “I feel very much like I want to apologize and tell you that I'm so sorry.”

Suzanne reflects on the broader implications of her investigation, questioning the moral responsibilities of individuals who contributed to horrific wartime technologies and the enduring impact on subsequent generations.

Key Quote:

Stephanie Rico [41:18]: “By me seeing you having an interest in this, and that alone tells me that you have a heart.”

6. Continuing the Investigation

The episode concludes with Suzanne and Stephanie acknowledging the unresolved mysteries surrounding their grandfather's actions and their own roles in uncovering the truth. They vow to continue their investigation, honoring the memories of those who suffered and seeking closure for their family's entangled history.

Key Quote:

Stephanie Rico [41:45]: “What amends can you make when you can't go back and change history?... The only way I can think of to honor Oscar's story is to continue to investigate my own.”

---

Notable Themes and Insights

• Legacy and Responsibility: The episode delves into the moral complexities of inheriting a legacy tainted by involvement in wartime atrocities, highlighting the struggle between familial love and historical accountability.

• Personal vs. Collective Memory: Suzanne and Stephanie's journey illustrates the tension between personal family narratives and the broader historical truths, emphasizing the importance of confronting uncomfortable histories to achieve closure.

• Human Resilience and Empathy: The heartfelt interactions with Oscar Jacob underscore the enduring human spirit and the capacity for empathy and reconciliation across generations affected by trauma.

---

Conclusion

"Chamber 44: 5" of The Man Who Calculated Death masterfully intertwines personal memoir with historical investigation, offering listeners a profound exploration of family secrets, moral dilemmas, and the quest for understanding amidst the shadows of World War II. Through detailed storytelling, emotional interviews, and compelling revelations, Suzanne Rico provides a gripping narrative that not only uncovers the dark chapters of her ancestry but also invites listeners to reflect on the enduring impacts of history on present identities.

---

For more episodes and additional content, visit themanwhocalculateddeath.com.

Transcript

[Suzanne Rico]

Hi, everyone, it's Suzanne Rico. Just a quick reminder that new episodes of the man who Calculated Death are available for free every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. And now onto the show.

[Narrator]

It's Sunday, June 18, 1944, five days after the first V1 killed six people in East London. Hundreds of worshippers are at the Guards Chapel near Buckingham Palace, a place to practice faith and pray for the war to be over. At 11:20, the choir is singing the Eucharist. Voices soar to the domed ceiling, drowning out the sound of a pulse jet engine overhead. The parishioners have no idea what's coming. Or that the engine's sudden Silen means the V1 is now free falling toward the ground. When the bomb hits the chapel roof, 100-year-old walls collapse. Concrete, glass, and wood crashing down on the congregation. Rescuers find 123 bodies in the wreckage. And legend has it that the six candles in the silver altar cross were still burning. I'm not sure whether this last part is true or not, but I've learned from my own family that legends have a way of becoming the soul of the story.

[Heidi]

Oh, wait, I'm supposed to be sitting quietly.

[Narrator]

Okay, sit quietly, Tanta. Heidi has been the keeper of our family legends for decades. But now her time is running out.

[Heidi]

I'm dizzy.

[Narrator]

Remember all her complaining.

[Heidi]

My back aches so bad, my left knee is going out.

[Narrator]

It turns out it's not just old age.

[Heidi]

It's not right.

[Narrator]

My Tanta's been diagnosed with cancer. Stage 4. Here, let's try to put it on a little tighter.

[Tanta]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

And as I wrap the blood pressure cuff around her too thin arm, memories of my mom hit hard. Yeah, try that. I don't want to put it on too tight.

[Heidi]

No, no, no.

[Narrator]

And just like with my mom, my aunt seems to really want her story to be remembered.

[Heidi]

We would go to the father daughter dances, and we would always win, you know, because he was a super dancer. And he would tell me, you have to be light as a feather and follow my lead.

[Narrator]

Heidi's memories of my grandfather lead me away from his brilliance and bad temper and toward the father she loved.

[Heidi]

When I had polio, he came every night to my window because you could talk to the patients through the window. And he came at night after work. He came to to my window to say hello.

[Narrator]

That's a man I could love, too. But there's a darker side of Robert Lesser I want to ask my Tante about before it's too late. I want to know when and why? My grandfather was awarded the Third Reich's highest honor.

[Heidi]

It knighted him. The Knights. The Knights Cross for Kreiper Cross. It gave him the right to call themselves Von Lissa. You know, V O n this first.

[Narrator]

Came across my radar when Stephanie and I were digging through our mom's office after she died. We found this photo of our grandfather wearing the medal at a fancy dinner party. The silver cross hanging from his neck by a red ribbon seemed significant. But when we combed through our mom's memoir, we couldn't find any mention of it. But Tanta Heidi knows exactly what I'm talking about.

[Stephanie]

When was Robert Lesser awarded that fancy medal?

[Narrator]

The Knight's Cross with the Iron Cross. She flips through the pages of her family album until she finds a telegram.

[Melissa]

Look at this.

[Heidi]

It's all in German.

[Narrator]

It's stamped Geheim, which means confidential or secret. And when she reads the English translation, a big piece of the puzzle clicks into place.

[Stephanie]

Okay, now it's recording.

[Heidi]

Dear Director Lusser, I take this occasion as A new German weapon daily devastates the enemy. To express my deepest thanks to you, the creator of this gigantic idea.

[Narrator]

It's a letter of congratulations for vengeance Weapon number one.

[Heidi]

Your courageous inventiveness found the fertile ground to build that which today is viewed with amazement by the entire world. I close with the conviction that your continuing endeavors portend future greatness for the good of the German Reich and remain with best wishes for the future Reich Marshall Hermann Girling.

[Narrator]

My Tanta and I just sit there for a moment, letting the words of one of history's most infamous war criminals sink in. Well, she doesn't try to rationalize or make excuses. Because we both know who Reichsmarschal Hermann Goering was. Hitler's number two man was known for his jewel encrusted baton, serious morphine addiction, and for plundering art from the Jews his government put to death. Proof that this was the guy behind my grandfather's Knight's Cross is right there in front of me. A fragile scrap of history with smudged ink. And when I noticed the date, the telegram's purpose becomes crystal clear. Hermann Gring sent it. On June 21, 1944, three days after V1 scored a direct hit on the Guards chapel. The Knight's Cross was my grandfather's dark reward.

[Tanta]

A new chapter opens. The battle of the Flying Bomb.

[Narrator]

I'm Suzanne Rico, and this is the man who calculated death. Episode 5 Chamber 44 the birds are.

[Stephanie]

About to Fly I see black in the future.

[Narrator]

Come in, come in.

[Oscar Jacob]

This is an invitation.

[Stephanie]

This is gonna blow your mind.

[Narrator]

Cuz it blew my mind. So you listen really well.

[Melissa]

This is the only original of the.

[Stephanie]

Man who calculated death.

[Heidi]

The man who calculated Death.

[Narrator]

I'm the. The library is open until 6:00.

[Melissa]

Okay.

[Stephanie]

In the archives of a former concentration camp in Nordhausen, Germany, Stephanie and I are digging for information about our grandfather.

[Narrator]

Was given to the Volkswagenberg.

[Oscar Jacob]

We don't know whether Alyssa came to Mittlebau.

[Narrator]

Dora. And when the camp's historian heads back to her office, leave you alone with this, I notice a strange coincidence.

[Stephanie]

Okay. Today's Robert Lesser's birthday and we're sitting in the archive of Dora Mittelbau researching books called DV1 and the Weapons of Death. And tomorrow's Hitler's birthday.

[Narrator]

We didn't plan to be here on what would have been our grandfather's 117th birthday. But it kind of feels like destiny because all of these books and documents in front of us show that the V1 didn't only wreak havoc in England. Right here in a province known as the Green Heart of Germany, the damage was even worse.

[Melissa]

Beautiful green fields, the flowers, the trees bloomed. And then there was this horror going on.

[Narrator]

It was a horror I never heard about as a kid, or an adult for that matter. Like the telegram and Knights Cross. My mom never mentions Dora in her memoir. But this concentration camp is important because it's here where my grandfather's work intersects with the most horrific aspect of the Nazis.

[Melissa]

So they called it the Dore Helle.

[Narrator]

The Holocaust. Dora Hel. The camp called Dora Hel was established in 1943, a direct result of the Allied bombing of Peenemunde, the V weapons research and production facility on the Baltic Sea. The Nazis were desperate to find another place to build their vengeance weapons, one that couldn't be spotted by reconnaissance planes. So they commandeered an old gypsum mine and brought in slave labor from other concentration camps. And not only were those prisoners forced to work underground, they had to live there. Too brutal.

[Melissa]

Yeah, but we had no idea that the V1 was doing that to hundreds of other people.

[Stephanie]

Hundreds, tens of thousands.

[Narrator]

60,000 people in total worked at Dora during its two year operation. Most were put to work on the V2, the world's first ballistic missile. But while the Volkswagen factory near Berlin was still the main producer of V1s, the Luftwaffe added a production line at Dora to crank them out even faster. Once again, Robert Lesser and Werner von Braun were in competition.

[Melissa]

They have von Braun right there.

[Narrator]

Yeah, the rocket scientist's photograph hangs in the Dora Museum. He was in there, right next to those of the camp's commanders. Von Braun even hand picked some of the V2 technical workers in the tunnels.

[Melissa]

He knew what was going on there.

[Narrator]

But while there's no picture of our grandfather anywhere and no evidence he was ever at Dora, Stephanie and I figure, yeah, he knew. He knew.

[Melissa]

You know what? He just had less to do with it. But they knew.

[Narrator]

The true scope of Mittelbau Dora has been diminished by decades. Ruins dot the fields and forest, the camp's crematorium, the only original building still standing. Inside this bleak memorial space, a quiet surrounds us that feels much different from the libraries. Words are useless here. Two ovens stand side by side, a couple of skeletal metal stretchers on the floor, and the mildewed walls close in quickly. So we head back outside and down to this concrete island in a sea of wildflowers. A young tour guide is there, hooded coat zipped tight against the wind, blonde and rosy cheeked.

[Stephanie]

Her name tag says Melissa.

[Narrator]

She starts by telling us that we are standing on the camp's Appellplatz, a roll call area used for counting prisoners and hanging them. The gallows is long gone, but I can imagine the prisoners lined up at attention, forced by the SS to watch as fellow inmates accused of sabotage were hanged one by one.

[Margot]

It was brutal. It was pure power and terror.

[Melissa]

If a prisoner tried to stay warm by wrapping up in an empty cement bag, that was sabotage. And if anyone tried to look away.

[Margot]

From the execution, they would be.

[Stephanie]

The truth is, I want to look away. I want to flee from the wind and the cold and the history, back to the warmth of our rental car. But Stephanie and I haven't come all this way to hide from our own past, even though it's painful. And so my sister and I link arms and follow our guide down a gravel path to the entrance of an underground production facility that now serves as a memorial to the 20,000 prisoners who died here.

[Suzanne Rico]

This show is brought to you by Better help. You know, we spend a lot of time thinking about things. Physical health, gym memberships, vitamins, all that. But what about mental health? Therapy can feel like a big investment. And let's be honest, the traditional in person version isn't cheap. Anywhere from 100 bucks to 250 a session, and that adds up fast. But with BetterHelp, you can save on average up to 50% per session. It's a flat weekly fee and you can do it all online. No commute, no waiting rooms, just quality therapy that fits into your life. Whether you're dealing with anxiety, day to day stress, or you just need someone to help you get through a tough time, therapy can be a game changer. And it's not just about major trauma. It's about learning how to cope, set boundaries, and show up for yourself in a better way. BetterHelp has over 30,000 licensed therapists and has helped more than 5 million people around the world. You can even switch therapists at any time if it's not the right fit, so there's no awkward breakups, no stress. Therapy has taught me how important it is to prioritize your mind, because when your mind's in a better place, everything else follows. Visit betterhelp.comtheman to get 10% off your first month. That's better. BetterHelp H-E-L-P.comtheman.

[Narrator]

The moment we walk out of the weak sunlight and into the blackness of Dora Hell, I start to shiver. It's always 8 degrees Celsius in here, 46 Fahrenheit. Three German guys wearing beards and black leather motorcycle jackets are with us, and one starts humming the theme from Star Wars. I wince, but have to admit the tunnel does have that brooding sci fi mix of primitive and high tech.

[Melissa]

It's this loyalist gives you a sense of what it must have been like.

[Narrator]

It is so creepy. When we merge with the main tunnel, the darkness gives way to an eerie fluorescent light. Pictures of prisoners hang on the rock wall, their stories reduced to a few paragraphs.

[Stephanie]

At the far end, a rusty V2 rocket is on display like a piece of fallen space junk.

[Narrator]

A catwalk spans a long, wide trench filled with debris, and when I climb it, I can see groundwater glinting below. I stand there for a moment, trying to figure out what I'm looking at.

[Stephanie]

For a minute I saw something that looked like hard hats, all discarded on the side, all decaying. But then when I looked closer to them, I realized they weren't hard hats. They didn't care enough to give them hard hats. It's some sort of.

[Oscar Jacob]

I don't know what it is, maybe.

[Narrator]

A bucket, but Melissa tells me the ash colored pile had a much more malignant function. It's made up of casings from the gyroscopes that guided the V1 across the English Channel to London. The trench is a sort of V1 graveyard, and now I can make out nose cones, jet engines, and decaying wings. All these relics are no longer able to do any harm, but they are still powerful reminders of the vengeance Weapon's purpose and true cost. This Hebrew prayer, sung by a rabbi on April 11, 1995, marked the 50th anniversary of Dora's liberation. Survivors placed flowers against the rock walls, candles illuminating craggy faces.

[Stephanie]

God, I hope it's never forgotten. It's unbelievable.

[Narrator]

The strength of the survivors reverberates in these tunnels, but so do the souls of the dead sentinels hovering in the cold, dank air.

[Stephanie]

So, Melissa, obviously you know who Wernher von Braun is.

[Margot]

Yeah, I know.

[Stephanie]

Do you know who Robert Lesser is?

[Margot]

I don't know Robert Lasser.

[Stephanie]

So what name do you hear of in connection with the V? The V1.

[Margot]

Werner von Braun and Albertsch Bier.

[Narrator]

For a minute, my shoulders relax. I don't even bother to correct her. I just keep talking.

[Oscar Jacob]

How do you feel personally about this.

[Stephanie]

Part of your country's history?

[Margot]

How I feel about it?

[Oscar Jacob]

I mean, do you feel shame?

[Stephanie]

Do you feel.

[Oscar Jacob]

I mean, you have to stand here.

[Stephanie]

And you have to explain.

[Margot]

Yeah.

[Oscar Jacob]

What some Germans did.

[Stephanie]

That is horrifying.

[Margot]

I. I think. I don't know the English word. You can't explain how I feel about it.

[Stephanie]

What about in German?

[Margot]

Aus Ernando.

[Narrator]

It's a long, complicated word. I had to look it up. It means to deal with something in detail, to think it through critically, to tackle a problem head on. My mom's memoir was an attempt to do that with her tangled, traumatic childhood. And it's why Stephanie and I are here in Germany in the first place. But from all we've seen and learned so far, I've come up with a definition of Aus Einandelsetzen of my own. To me, it's the Sisyphean struggle to make sense of one of the most senseless eras in history.

[Melissa]

10,000 people they have working down here, stuck in these little tunnels. 2,500 in each of these tunnels, each of these things.

[Narrator]

The deeper we walk into the mountain, the colder and wetter it gets. Melissa stops at a cave stacked with four story wooden bunk beds. This room, which was called Chamber 44, is one of the places prisoners slept before barracks were built above ground. No mattresses, no blankets, no bathrooms.

[Melissa]

They filled the bunk beds. The other guys were working, and then they brought them back, and the guys in the bunk beds left, and the other guys got back in the bunk thing and they died after you? Most of them.

[Narrator]

Six, she said.

[Oscar Jacob]

Six days to eight weeks they left. It was a lifespan in here.

[Narrator]

As we stare into the sanitized gloom, letting that fact sink in, Melissa drops a detail that will stay with me forever. While the masses of starving, exhausted prisoners slept in this subterranean prison, their collective breath condensed on the rock ceiling above and fell back on them like freezing rain.

[Melissa]

They just stuffed them in that underground cavern and they never saw the light of day again.

[Stephanie]

I think I would have just killed myself. I'm so cold right now. Can't even imagine.

[Narrator]

Finally, Melissa heads back in the direction of sunlight.

[Stephanie]

Oh, are you going this way?

[Oscar Jacob]

Let's go out.

[Stephanie]

But before we go, our guide tells us one last thing. After barracks were built above ground and the slave laborers moved into living quarters that weren't quite so deadly, the sleeping caves were converted into workrooms. And Chamber 44 is where sick, emaciated prisoners in filthy striped suits were forced at gunpoint to assemble flying bombs.

[Narrator]

I'm standing at passenger pickup at Lambert St. Louis International Airport. It's spring of 2022. Six years since Stephanie and I walked the tunnels of Mittelbau Dora.

[Oscar Jacob]

Oh, hello.

[Heidi]

I figured it'd be easy.

[Narrator]

I'm like, okay, this is at the curb. Marci Rosenberg greets me like an old friend. Although we've never met, she's petite and super cheerful. And it occurs to me that may be part defense mechanism, some subconscious effort to counteract the difficult work she's done for years, documenting the stories of Holocaust survivors.

[Oscar Jacob]

So grateful for you doing this.

[Narrator]

You know what?

[Oscar Jacob]

I'm grateful that I could pull this all together for you.

[Narrator]

I've been trying to connect with a survivor for years to hear the story of Dora Hell firsthand. But time wasn't on my side. Most had died, and the survivor groups I reached out to declined to help. But then through the St. Louis Holocaust Museum, I found Marcy. And now she's taking me to meet 91 year old Oscar Jacob, who was imprisoned at Mittelbau Dora when he was just a kid.

[Oscar Jacob]

I think you guys really need to just have a deep, personal, emotional talk about his family, your family, and the collateral damage, you know? So much collateral damage. Yeah. Yeah.

[Narrator]

I never imagined I would find a survivor in a Missouri suburb living a midwestern life. But 20 minutes later, Marcy pulls up in front of a neat brick house.

[Oscar Jacob]

It's right back there.

[Stephanie]

Yep.

[Oscar Jacob]

With the columns in the front, white shutters. I'm nervous. No, absolutely fine. I promise.

[Narrator]

As we walk up the flower lined path to the front door, I take some deep breaths, but it doesn't help. I keep thinking I'm the granddaughter of a guy who designed weapons for the Nazis. Weapons that were built by slave laborers like Oscar.

[Oscar Jacob]

Well, I'M super glad you're here with me. I wouldn't let you do this alone.

[Narrator]

While we stand there waiting for someone to answer the door, that worry has time to blossom into low grade fear. Will he blame me somehow or still be angry? Rightfully so.

[Oscar Jacob]

He's coming.

[Margot]

He's coming.

[Narrator]

Then the door finally opens and I'm shaking hands with a fit white haired man wearing a green short sleeved shirt and suspenders.

[Oscar Jacob]

Seen you again so soon, did you?

[Tanta]

That's okay.

[Narrator]

And he's got the kindest blue eyes I've ever seen out of my savior.

[Oscar Jacob]

Hello, this is Suzanne from Oscar.

[Tanta]

Jacob.

[Oscar Jacob]

Thank you so much for letting me come.

[Tanta]

Oh, you're welcome.

[Narrator]

I appreciate it. Oscar's wife Margot is in the hallway holding back their new puppy, a sweet white poodle.

[Heidi]

How are you?

[Oscar Jacob]

It's a pleasure to meet you. Thank you for having me.

[Narrator]

I walk into a living room that is meticulously neat. Crystal in a glass front cabinet and lace tablecloths lend an old World charm. Oscar and Margot's four children and eight grandchildren smile from photographs and it seems proof of a life well lived.

[Tanta]

Have a seat anywhere you like.

[Oscar Jacob]

I'll tell you what I'm thinking.

[Narrator]

Oscar.

[Heidi]

I've got.

[Narrator]

They both welcome me with such warmth that as we sit down to talk, I feel brave enough to reach out and touch Oscar's forearm.

[Oscar Jacob]

Can you tell me about this?

[Tanta]

But this is hundert.

[Oscar Jacob]

So 125.

[Narrator]

7.

[Oscar Jacob]

7.

[Tanta]

Correct.

[Narrator]

The tattoo is gray, green. Crudely done.

[Oscar Jacob]

And is that an A?

[Heidi]

A is for Auschwitz.

[Oscar Jacob]

A is for Auschwitz.

[Tanta]

See, the idea with the Nazis is to dehumanize us completely, to compare us to animals. It made it easier for them and for the young SS that we do not belong into the human race. And that's why, how I look at this, that this is what they tried to do, but they failed.

[Narrator]

1, 2, 5, 7. 7 is the number that started Oskar's journey through three of Germany's most brutal concentration camps. He arrived in Auschwitz in 1944, after Nazi stormtroopers descended on his small village in Romania with orders to deport the Jews. 41 people in Oskar's extended family were rounded up and loaded onto boxcars at gunpoint.

[Oscar Jacob]

So it was your mom and Judy.

[Tanta]

And had a sister, Irene.

[Oscar Jacob]

She was 10 years old and Irene.

[Tanta]

And my brother Henry was eight years old, including my grandparents, my cousins.

[Narrator]

Judy was the youngest. Oscar shows me a photograph of his mom holding his little cousin. Wispy blonde hair frames a delicate face. Her blue eyes staring at the camera with curiosity, Suzanne, my question to people.

[Tanta]

Is, what kind of crime did she commit, this little girl?

[Narrator]

In 1939, Judy was six months old when her parents fled Czechoslovakia just before the Nazis took over. They were headed for South America, and they worried their baby girl wouldn't survive the long, dangerous trip. So they left her with Oscar's parents, thinking she'd be safe in Romania.

[Tanta]

And they ended up in Argentina. But they managed to survive.

[Oscar Jacob]

They made it.

[Tanta]

And I'm sorry to say that did not happen the same with little Judy.

[Narrator]

Of all the painful things that we will talk about today, this story is the one that brings Oscar to tears.

[Tanta]

Little Judy was already four and a half, five years old when the Hungarians agreed to deport the Jews to Auschwitz. And she ended up with our family in Auschwitz. And my poor mom carried her into the gas chamber on her arm. Yeah, it was just so heartbreaking.

[Narrator]

And after the war, Oscar jumps ahead in time to a memory of Judy's mother, his aunt, visiting him in St. Louis.

[Tanta]

And she said to me, I know it's going to be painful, she says, but I want to know everything, what happened to my little daughter? And she took it so, so hard. She felt so guilty that she left her little daughter behind. She, she, she jumped on front of a bus in Buenos Aires to kill herself.

[Oscar Jacob]

Oh, my God.

[Tanta]

Yeah, that's what happened. So the Holocaust goes on even after the Nazis.

[Narrator]

Oh, my Lord. Oskar dodged the gas chamber only by lying to the SS about his age. He was added to the work group along with his dad and his cousin Irwin, the only three members of his family who didn't die that day. And on a freezing January morning in 1945, the SS loaded them onto another train.

[Tanta]

No food, no water. A lot of cursing, a lot of beating, no remorse, no pity, no nothing.

[Narrator]

They were bound for Mittelbau Dora, a camp where workers were needed to produce the two vengeance weapons that were Adolf Hitler's last hope. And when they arrived, those who survived the hellish train ride were immediately forced to carry those who did not to the camp's small crematorium.

[Tanta]

We had to pile them up on top of each other, and top and top, we built a tower as high as you can see. You had to look up that picture that we created with all these dead bodies. It never left my mind. I see these pictures over and over again. Matter of fact, about four or five days ago, I had a nightmare in which I get every once in a while about the camps.

[Narrator]

Oscar has just turned 14 years old. He's building a tower of human corpses. And nearly 40 of his relatives have been murdered. And now he's put to work in dank, freezing tunnels where death is a constant presence.

[Tanta]

We were flabbergasted when we got in the first time that it looked like a town by itself. Huge trucks came in. The train was able to pull in to load the rockets.

[Narrator]

Oscar's job was drilling rivets in sheet metal.

[Tanta]

We were assigned each of us to a machine where we were working up, you know, for the V1 rockets.

[Narrator]

Every 12 hour shift he had to drill 500 rivets or the SS guards beat him with their rifle butts.

[Tanta]

Sometimes they hit the bone so that you thought that they broke your bone and all you would hear from them, schnell, schnel, schnell, weidemachen, Schnel, schnell, weidemachen.

[Oscar Jacob]

Faster, faster, faster.

[Narrator]

Cruelty isn't a strong enough word to describe what the SS dished out at Dora. Oskar remembers one night when the guards accused a group of prisoners of sabotage. Their crime. They were caught resting instead of working.

[Tanta]

And they hung 70 people simultaneously. And we were forced to stay in line and march by the dead bodies. And everybody had to punch the dead bodies with their fists.

[Oscar Jacob]

Oh, my God. I don't even know what to say to that.

[Tanta]

It was something even a nightmare cannot repeat.

[Stephanie]

God.

[Oscar Jacob]

I guess I just feel sort of responsible. I mean, I think you know my history. Right, your history.

[Tanta]

I don't know anything about your background. Well, I was going to ask you that question.

[Stephanie]

Wow.

[Tanta]

What interest do you have in this that you wanted to talk to me?

[Oscar Jacob]

Well, my grandfather was a man named Robert Lesser, and he was the chief designer of the V1 flying bombs. And my sister and I went to Dora in 2016 and it was a life changing experience. It's hard to imagine what people went through there.

[Tanta]

Unbelievable what went through there. No matter how much you talk about it, it's not enough to explain the horror and the pain and the suffering.

[Narrator]

Two months before the war ended, Oskar was transferred from Dora Hel to the Bergen Belsen concentration camp. And as the Allies marched closer, the guards deserted, leaving the prisoners to starve.

[Tanta]

When the British liberated the camp, there was 28,000 dead bodies all over the ground. And I was so close to that I could not walk upright. I could just crawl on my knees and hands like this.

[Oscar Jacob]

How long more do you think you would have made it if the war had gone on another?

[Tanta]

I believe that a day I would have been dead. One day, yes. I had no. I felt like I'M dying right then and there. A person that didn't experience the camp will never, ever know what a Holocaust survivor went through.

[Oscar Jacob]

You know, no one in my family wanted to talk about this part of it, and I just. It didn't sit right with me, you know, that you can only tell half the story. And I feel very much like I want to apologize and tell you that I'm. I'm so sorry.

[Tanta]

I appreciate it. It's nice to hear it from a German person.

[Oscar Jacob]

It's been a long journey for me to go back and understand the history that I have. I didn't know about Dora until 2016 and that I thought that the only victims of the V1 were the people in London. I didn't realize that there was this whole other cost to that weapon.

[Tanta]

First of all, we need more people like you. I wish there would be many more Germans who are interested in. In what you are doing. To be honest with you, I had till up to today, I have never heard from a German, including my wife's family, that they are sorry what I went through.

[Narrator]

That's right.

[Stephanie]

Margot is German. Same generation as my mom and my Tantes. She met Oscar after immigrating in the 1950s.

[Oscar Jacob]

This is. I think this is an actually really interesting pairing of the two of you.

[Narrator]

Right?

[Oscar Jacob]

I mean, you must have had some interesting conversations over the years.

[Tanta]

We did.

[Heidi]

I didn't have a clue what went on. Never. I knew there were Jews, you know.

[Oscar Jacob]

So you didn't know about the can?

[Heidi]

No.

[Tanta]

Well, she was a kid yet, and.

[Heidi]

In school, you know, we had to learn as Heil Hitler. Heil Hitler. And that's it.

[Narrator]

The German kids were victims, too, of Nazi brainwashing and indoctrination. But what about the adults who knew better and just stood by?

[Oscar Jacob]

It's not as black and white as I would like it to be with my grandfather. He was a brilliant aeronautical engineer. So there's that side of it, and then there's walking through the tunnels and.

[Stephanie]

Thinking, how can I have any pride.

[Oscar Jacob]

Or respect for what he did?

[Tanta]

It is tough. I agree with you. It is.

[Narrator]

I'm so grateful that Oscar seems to understand my conflicting emotions about the past. But what he says next truly feels like a lesson in humanity.

[Tanta]

I have to defend somewhat your grandfather, because once he was involved, it was very difficult to get out because your life was in danger unless you pick yourself up and go to another country and disappear. Because if he would have stayed in Germany and gone against the Nazis, he would have been in deep trouble.

[Oscar Jacob]

Well, it's Interesting that you mention that, because as I was doing this really deep dive into.

[Narrator]

Oscar and I talked all through that soft Midwestern afternoon and right into the evening. He showed me photos of a trip he and Margot took to Europe in 2001 with their kids.

[Tanta]

This is Jeff, Henry, Ronnie, and Gabe.

[Narrator]

So you have four sons. They followed the family path through Romania and Germany.

[Tanta]

And this is the one of the.

[Narrator]

Street, much like Stephanie and I did 15 years later.

[Tanta]

Small town. We were the only Jewish family in this town.

[Narrator]

And when we're finally done running the emotional gauntlet through the past, my mind is, you're exhausted.

[Oscar Jacob]

We're a little fried. All right, so.

[Narrator]

But as I pack up my stuff to leave, I feel like I accomplished at least one thing.

[Tanta]

Well, you have no idea how happy I am to have met you.

[Narrator]

Before this meeting, I could only empathize in the abstract. For victims of the Holocaust, you're a.

[Tanta]

Sweet person, and I'm glad that I got to know you.

[Narrator]

But now it's personal.

[Tanta]

By me seeing you having an interest in this, and that alone tells me that you have a heart.

[Oscar Jacob]

Thank you. Thank you, Oscar.

[Tanta]

You're welcome.

[Stephanie]

What amends can you make when you can't go back and change history? When the statute of limitations on truly understanding someone else's tragedy has run out? The only way I can think of to honor Oscar's story is to continue to investigate my own. In March of 1945, as Oscar is assembling flying bombs in Dora's tunnels, my grandfather is in Berlin working to improve the V1. Russian troops are closing in on the city, and a desperate Hitler has decreed that anyone caught fleeing will be shot. 400 miles away, my grandmother and her kids are hiding out on a remote farm, just trying to survive until the end of the war. Which is so very close. But for them, the worst is yet to come.

[Narrator]

Coming up on the man who Calculated Death.

[Stephanie]

Did you ever try to find out if the Stuttenhof bombing was targeted at Robert Lesser or not?

[Margot]

I'm 100% sure.

[Melissa]

So this was a big oak, and it had a bunch of shrapnel on it.

[Heidi]

I would say six craters and the seventh hit.

[Melissa]

Yeah. You wonder if she had some sort of sense about what was going to happen here.

[Heidi]

And I remember saying, get bullies. Get Uli. Get Uli. He is not breathing.

[Tanta]

They knew exactly who was doing what, and they wanted to kill the people who were active in this project. The top people.

[Melissa]

Look, she just read that name.

[Oscar Jacob]

She just read the name.

[Melissa]

And that's the way that she found out on a gravestone in a graveyard. Oh, man.

[Stephanie]

That's Next time on the man who Calculated Death, an original series from Discount Sushi, a novel. The show is written, reported and produced by me, Suzanne Rico. And if you're enjoying it, please rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. For more information, including family photos, videos and archival material, go to the manwhocalculateddeath.com thanks so much for listening.