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This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human this July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark celebration at america250.org,
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Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium
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Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just celebrities. So do like I did and have
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A
one of your assistant's assistants switch you
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B
to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com
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Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms@mintmobile.com why
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B
write a book or build a product or even solve a problem or add value. I could simply just say who's got my money? So you know, don't complicate this shit.
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A
Mark, don't make it complicated.
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B
All these guys talking about printing money. Oh my God, the world's coming to an end. They're printing too much money. Do printing money is a good thing?
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A
Well, it's good and bad. All I got to do is Create a funnel into my bank account somehow. And so what does that mechanism look like?
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B
These have all been propaganda machines that have been sold to the American people to make us fatter and sicker and poorer.
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A
And then I spend down my assets and I hope I die before I hit zero. What kind of strategy is that?
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B
It is insane.
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A
And I told you at the time, I said, I think you're going to build the most valuable real estate company in the world.
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B
I'm going to suck 5 or 10% out of a $4 trillion business that can never, ever compete with this real estate bitcoin hybrid because they can't do it.
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A
So you talked about bitcoiners typically being savers and not wealth creators. Now, the Grant cardone that the world sees is, you know, billionaire real estate investor. Right. Thinking about from an investment lens. But if you followed your career a little bit more like I have, from the sales team, your 10x conferences. You're a wealth creator now. I, I, I reference a lot. Just the other day, I was telling someone about your undercover billionaire TV show.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And how you walked around and you said, who has my money?
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B
Who, who's got my money? Got my money. Who's got my money? I have a T shirt that says that, dude.
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A
So, so walk me through the difference. If someone sees you as an investor but you consider yourself, I'm guessing, a wealth creator, what's the difference?
- [03:54]
B
Yeah. Well, so look, I grew up with nothing, right? So I was raised by a single mom. My dad died when I was 10 years old. And one of the things that my dad taught me, he gave me a quarter one day, he gave me and my brother a quarter each to get us out of the house. We walked to the grocery store.
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A
You're cheap back then.
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B
We walk you, dude, a quarter. That was when a quarter was a quarter. You were proud to have a quarter. Okay. And a quarter could buy, like, a whole lot of stuff. Like, you could get 25 pieces of gum for a quarter. And so we're walking over there, I'm feeling like, dude, I'm feeling, I'm strutting, you know, band like a banny rooster, man. Flipping my coin. I'm going to spend 25 cents. I'm making decisions that day. I flip the coin and it falls out of my hand and falls into a manhole. And this is the old, old schooled, old school manholes where you could, like, put your arm through it. And I couldn't find it, couldn't reach it. Went home, my dad yelled at me, said Never play with money. And you know, dude, I, I, ever since then, by the way, my grandfather grabbed me, he's like, he, I started crying and my grandfather said, son, your dad taught you a good lesson there. Never play with money. I'm gonna teach you another lesson. And I said, yeah, yeah, grandpa. I think he's going to yell at me too. He's like, never go any place with just one quarter. And so I've been, I've been living those two lessons, bro, for 58 years. You know, don't play with money and, and never go anywhere with one quarter. So yeah, I consider myself a wealth creator because I didn't have anything and, and I still do that today, dude. The best part of me, I am best when I have nothing. And I am, I am less valuable when I think I have money or success or fame or customers. I'm best when I actually act like I have my back to the wall and I don't have anything. And that's why I pound so hard. You probably heard me, you know, diminish the value of what savings accounts are or people that are saving their three month savings account that Dave Ramsey promotes so hard. The 90 day saving emergency account, like you're manifesting an emergency. Fund it in advance. And, and then the IRAs and the 401ks that people are planning for retirement. You, you, you, you only plan for retirement because you're, you're interested in not creating wealth. And so that's what I did in that show, right? That show. They dropped me off. That's why I did that show, because they, they said, hey, how long would it take you to make a million dollars if you didn't have any money?
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I said, I don't know, 30 or 30 or 45 days, maybe 60 days. They said, well, could you do it in 90? I said, I don't really need 90 days. They said, well, we're doing a TV show and it's 90 days. I'm like, okay, well maybe I'll goof off for the last 30, but I don't need the full 90 and I don't need your hundred dollars by the way.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And, and the lady that ran Discovery Channel was like, aren't you cocky? And I said, well, no, not really. I just have a system. And she's like, you really think you can do this? I said, oh no, I can do, I'll do $10 million in 90 days. I'll build a 10 million dollar business. I don't need food, water, a place to live. No shelter, nothing. I don't even need your hundred bucks. And then. Because, you know, I knew I needed people, man, you need people. And I think the bitcoiners forgot that, too, by the way.
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A
So I again, I mean, I love that show. And you just said something right now. You said, I don't need your hundred dollars because. And I can do. I don't need your 90 days because I have a system. So let's break down the system.
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B
Yeah, so, look, everybody needs a system, man. I mean, a bad system's better than no system, right? So in Money with Money, the system is. I used to think that I had to do something. You know, like, you hear people say, oh, you need to solve a problem. Not really. Okay. You don't really need to solve a problem because that's just an added step. Or you need to build something or you need to write something. But with money, that's not really the goal. Okay? The goal with money is the closer you can get to the money with the fewest things in between you. And money would be the fastest way to get to money. So, you know, why write a book or build a product or even solve a problem or add value? I could simply just say, who's got my money?
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, dude, if you're trying to solve a money problem, just go ask somebody for money, like panhandling, okay? You grab a street corner, stop cars. Dude, can you give me a hundred bucks? Now, I could do that faster than the regular panhandler, because he. He's going to go over there and ask for a buck or two bucks or. Or more dumber than that, he's going to ask for food, you know, and I'm not going to do that, dude. I'm going to be. Just go straight for the money. Ask for the. You know, can you fund me, period, knowing that out of 8 billion people on this planet, somebody would fund my project? I mean, if I was a single guy today, pretend I'm single, my wife leaves me, and I want to get rich, dude, I wouldn't go start a business. I wouldn't invest in bitcoin or real estate. I'd go find. I'd go make a list of billionaire widows, and I'd go service her. It. I. You can marry more money in a day than you can make in a lifetime, man.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So, you know, so don't complicate this, Mark.
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A
Don't make it complicated. So. And in. In the show, in the Undercover Billionaire, you did actually stand on a street corner, not panhandling but you were funneling people into the mattress store, right? So you were doing that. So it's like if you think about, if you think about money floating around, like there's trillions of dollars sloshing around in this world, and all I gotta do is create a funnel to funnel that money into my bank account somehow. And so what does that mechanism look like?
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B
That's why all the doomers, man, all these guys talking about printing money. Oh, my God, the world's coming to an end. They're printing too much money. Dude, printing money is a good thing.
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A
Well, it's good and bad. Printing money, it's good and bad at the same time.
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B
No, it's good for me, bro. It's good. It's good for the hustlers Now. Now if you're a, if you're a saver, you know, and, and what is a saver? A saver is somebody not going to get it. They're saving something. They're trying to conserve something. But if you're, if you're a hustler and you, you own assets, you want a. You want them to print money. Yeah, and what I don't want is taxes. That's the part I don't want.
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A
Yeah. Can we just get rid of that? At the, at the bitcoin conference, I, I did a keynote and I talked about how something we talk about in the bitcoin space all the time, because a lot of the bitcoiners are also ideologues, right? And we believe in a sound money world where there's no money printing, there's no credit, our money continues to increase purchasing power. And, And I believe in that as well. And I do believe that if we didn't have inflation, things could be better. But there's a difference of what I want the world to be, and I'm working to make that world happen and the world I live in today. So we talk a lot about this Cantillon effect, which is exactly what you're talking about. And we say how unfair the system is. Those closest to the new money creation have the first advantage. And by the time it trickles down to me at the bottom, all the prices are more expensive. And I say, sure, we talk about that as this injustice, and it is, and we can change it one day. But what if we just use that as a playbook? Why can't I position myself where the money is created and use it to buy assets that also benefit from the inflation going up? Right? So instead of looking at it as this victim mentality we could use it. I call it the, in the keynote, I called it the judo move. So instead of fighting the energy, take their energy and use.
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B
Don't, don't push against it. Don't fight the Fed, dude.
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A
Yeah.
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They're printing money. Okay. By the way, I'd rather them print money than us not have money.
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A
Yeah.
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And, and I know in an ideal, perfect scenario there would be perfect balance in the universe and we would all have life work balance and everybody would be happy every moment. No one would get sick. And that's all great, but that's not where we're at right now. Right now we're at, if we don't print money, we have to go back to coins and shells. And, and so I'm going to, I'm going to buy assets that benefit from printing money.
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A
Now, now you talk about not saving and savers or losers and trying to conserve versus wealth creation. I think some of that semantics though,
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because I didn't say sabers were losers.
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A
Sorry.
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I did say they were quitters.
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A
Okay. But like I typically think about the wealth I create through my businesses and then I, I could, I could say investing. I typically think about, I save it, I save it in real estate, I save it in bitcoin.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And, and that's my two saving mechanism and. Sure. Investing, saving. Obviously you have assets, you have wealth, so you've also saved that, you've invested it. So how do you draw that line of like to your point, you know, 401k investing for retirement is sort of a fool's game. But you are saving, you are investing.
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B
Yeah, I mean I'm, I'm, I'm investing. Right. I, I don't, I, I don't think about me saving, I think about me. I'm not trying to save the money, I'm trying to multiply the money. So it's like I want to, I, first of all, I don't need to make money, I need to get it. Okay, you don't have to make money. You don't need to get a job to make money. You need to get.
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A
I like that. Reframe.
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B
And two, I need to store it until step three where I'm trying to multiply it. I'm only trying to multiply the money. Now I'm not a big risk taker, Mark, as you know, we've had this conversation before. So I'm not a big, you know, I'm going to miss all the big thousand X. You know, somebody's like, hey, did you get any SpaceX? No, I didn't, and I didn't try to. But, you know, it's probably stupid. I probably, probably could have got some, but it's not the way I've created wealth for myself. I go. I go make contact with a human being. I provide some kind of service. They give me an exchange for it. Top of the funnel that you're talking about. Lots of people service, and a lot of people up here that say no to me or don't answer the phone, or they're not interested or they think it's a scam or whatever they think it is, and they don't do it. And then a tiny few people come in and say, yeah, I'll fund you. I believe in you. I like you. I like what you're saying. I. And that that money comes in. The first thing I'm trying to do is I want to get that money and convert it to something better. I don't want it to stay in that aquarium, if you will. I want to get it out before the clown fish eats it. So I want to get it out and I want to improve the quality of it. I want to take $100 and I want to improve the quality. That's why I love real estate so much, because I know I'm going into something that's going to be more expensive to build in the future. But as you know, the real estate has some problems. We'll talk about that in a second. So I want to get it, and then I want to convert it as fast as I can, hopefully to something that gets me two more things, which is either a tax write off. That's why I was tempted by the 401k in the beginning. And number two, I want to get cash flow. In the case of the 401k, it got me a tax write off, but not one that I could really benefit from today in a big way. Like real estate can benefit me. And it didn't get me monthly cash flow because it got trapped in that account.
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A
And it doesn't really get you the tax. It doesn't get you the tax savings that you want. It just defers the tax.
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B
Yeah, exactly. And that's not really the tax write off I want. That's the one that everybody went for. But that's not what the wealthy families go for. They're not going for the IRA or the 401k. And if they're using a Roth like Peter Thiel did, they used it as a place to store or. Or push off a wealth event. But the Roth is not what gave Peter till that big score. It's the wealth creation that he dropped into the vehicle.
- [15:56]
A
Yeah, that's a great distinction. So through, through real estate you can actually pay less taxes. So the tax depreciation you're getting puts more money back into your pocket versus a 401k. Just means I pay the tax later. Most likely at a higher rate, right?
- [16:11]
B
Yes, 100%. So, so this is, you know, I always say the real estate's the greatest retirement account there is. If you can hold on to it until retirement and if you don't over leverage it. Right. And if you can continue to fund it in the future, it is the perfect retirement account. It's why, by the way, most insurance companies have at least half their assets in multi family real estate. That's how they're making disbursements at death or car crashes whatever whatever. So MetLife in New York life own probably 80 billion to a hundred billion dollars of real estate each because they need that cash flow to pay the future claims.
- [16:54]
A
So I want to climb Grant Cardone's wealth strategy, the system that you have and, and we'll get to the real estate empire and the new found how you're mixing bitcoin into the real estate empire. But if we go backwards a little bit, I mean, I believe, you know, before even 10x, it was like Grant Cardone sales. So it was like there's money out there. How do I get close to that money supply? How do I provide a service? As you said, someone gives me the money. And so sales is a mechanism where I could take a skill that I have, take it to the marketplace and I could start to generate or, or, or, or get the money. To your point, right?
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B
Yeah. This was, this was all pre Internet, this was pre social media. A lot of people only know me now because of Instagram or YouTube. But I was doing this when I was 29 years old. I was going around to companies and I was teaching them a new way to sell things. And I grew up on Tom Trey, Brian Tracy and Tom Hopkins, all the old sales guys, right. And Norman Vincent Peel, all those guys and, and Zig Ziglar sold, you know, pots and pans. Well, the, the sales process back then was very manipulative. It was control, it was manipulation. It was, you ask a question, I ask a question back the hot potato. You know, you probably remember some of this stuff. Well, I got in sales in 1983 and people were starting to get a little more educated. And I was noticing that the people, the Best quality customers. The people with the money did not like the game. The people at the bottom rung of society would accept it. But the people that had the money and could buy and make decisions fast, they wanted to, hey, I just want the number, I want the payment, I want the price, I want to know the overall cost. They were much more intelligent. They were actually easier to sell, and they made decisions a lot faster and they bought a lot more product, and they were actually easier to talk into paying me a commission. And so I basically built a sales process for them that I called information Assisted selling, where when you walked up, I would just offer you all the things you were sensitive to. And I started. I was outperforming everybody else in my industry by three and four times. So I went on to actually build this out and start consulting companies. And the auto industry was one of the first industries that picked up on it. And I started consulting Nissan and Toyota and Cadillac, like all the big car companies around the world. And, and, and that's all I did for almost 20 years, was I consulted a big company. Ashley Furniture was one of our clients, where we were trying to shorten the sales cycle, be more sensitive to the customer, saturate, do more customer saturation. And then, boom, the Internet comes along, and then social media popped. This was 2008, I guess, 2010. And I started telling these same stories on YouTube. And it, it resonated with people, and then individuals started buying our products and, And I was teaching people how to sell and close and negotiate. Very few people even know I was doing that then. I'm surprised you know it, but, yeah,
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A
I've been paying attention for a long time. Yeah, and, and probably, probably from the early YouTube days. Hey, look, you've. You've worked hard to build your bitcoin stack, but if it's still sitting on an exchange, it's not really yours. You see, the exchange holds the keys to your bitcoin. Now, if they freeze, withdraws, if they get hacked, they go under your bitcoin, it could disappear overnight. Even if you've moved it into a single cold wallet, you're still exposed. Now, that would be one device, one point of failure. If anything bad were to happen, you could lose your bitcoin. Now, that's why I use Unchained. Their collaborative custody vault gives me the best of both worlds. I hold my keys, but my security doesn't depend on just one one of them. Now, this is where security and sovereignty actually meet. You see, Unchained's collaborative custody Bitcoin Vaults use a two of three multisig models, which means that you hold two keys and Unchained holds one. That means that you own your bitcoin. But if you ever need help, their team is there to assist you without ever having control over your funds. And here's what I really like. Unchained isn't some offshore exchange or anonymous company. They're based in Austin, Texas. And when you call, you're not stuck with bots or scripts. You talk to a real bitcoiner who genuinely cares about helping you get it right. Now, they've been at it since 2016 and now secure over 12 billion in Bitcoin for people just like you and I. Now, that kind of trust doesn't happen overnight. So if you're serious about long term security and ownership, head over to unchained.com markmoss and use code Moss10 to get 10% off of your first vault. Because if you don't hold your keys, you don't hold your future. Sales is a master skill that everybody should learn because you're selling your wife, you're selling your kids, you're selling everybody, right? Always be selling, as they say. And that's a good way that you can get close to the money supply. If I can make a lot of money for somebody, I can get a piece of that. Recently I've seen you talking about how if you were starting over today, you would probably move into AI. You'd sell AI services, I believe, and you could make a million dollars a year doing that. So is that sort of the. You're still taking sales because you still have to sell the services, but that's like the 2026 version of that.
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B
Yeah, well, look, first of all, I would not. If I did my whole career over mark, I would do almost everything different. So, yeah, you know, I picked sales because it was a problem and it was a problem for companies, but it was not, it was not what companies wanted to pay for. You know, there's an old adage, find out some. Find out a problem, solve the problem and you'll get paid money. I found a problem, okay? Auto sales, these people are terrible at it. And the Customer hated. Took 4 and 5 hours to buy one car. Customer satisfaction scores were getting destroyed, profit margins were going down. I big problem. And I'm like, oh, I'm gonna solve that problem. The issue is I was in the right niche and I should have just moved over one lane to marketing. I could have made 50 times more money providing marketing solutions because every car dealer was spending money on marketing, and only about 20% of them were spending money on sales training. But I got so locked into this problem. And it is a problem, by the way. It's still a problem today. But look at Amazon. They're not using salespeople today, you know, and. Yeah, but the comment I made was if I was out selling and consulting today, and I wouldn't do that, by the way, but if I was, I would go, I'm 20 years old. I'd go perfect AI and I would go put AI into companies. Dentists, chiropractors, lawyers, because nobody wants to learn how to do this. People are playing with Claude and AI and Gemini. I talked to my, my president of the company today and I'm like, dude, we're wasting time on this. Bro, you're getting distracted, man. Oh, no, man, this is. No, bro, you're getting distracted, okay? You're getting distracted. It goes like this. Income, expenses, profit, period. And that is not going to change with AI now the AI companies are going to make a shitload of money. But if I was 20 years old today, I would become an AI expert and I would go into companies and I'd figure one little vertical in that company to fix one little, one little system, something. And I wouldn't even really talk about the AI. Okay, you can pay me 8, 000 bucks a month, and I'm gonna do this, this, this, this, this, and this. I'm gonna automate it for you, put the systems in place. You never need to learn anything about AI. I'll become your guy. And, and, and I'm just looking for ten companies to pay me eight grand a month. That's 80, 000 bucks a month. That's 960, 000 bucks a year. And it would work all day long.
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A
I, I couldn't agree more with you. I would love to have somebody come into my office once a week or once a month and help me set up my agents and, and automate that. Because I spent so much time on that. I'm looking for that person and I can't find that person. And I've told three or four people in the last, like two weeks. I'm like, man, I would just pay you whatever, 5,000 bucks a month if you just come here every month and like, nobody's doing that. And there's no barrier to entry. You could just watch YouTube videos for a week and you could get it,
- [25:23]
B
you know, all you got to know is this much more than I know and you're good to go. And by the way, everybody knows that much more than the next guy. Like if you put any attention on it all. And then I would do their social media. Social media still completely, completely overlooked. I got a thousand employees in my company. Thousand employees across six different companies. And I would hire AI experts today to handle this for me. If they under. They'd have to understand my company. That's why you could probably only do 10 or 15 of these companies because you need to understand that the dentist and the chiropractor have different but similar problems. I would have a completely different set of problems. But then the social media thing is like just updating people's links and bios.
- [26:09]
A
Y.
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B
You know, I'd probably pay five to $8,000 a month for that.
- [26:14]
A
Yeah.
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B
And now I'm. Now you and I are going to get a bunch of phone calls from people that want to consult.
- [26:20]
A
I hope so. I need some. But to your point, you know, you could just work on dental offices and then your systems are applied to dentists or chiropractors or what? So, so we chased this forward. So you built the sales company. You're. You're getting money, creating money, creating wealth, however you want to call it. Now the next problem is what do I do with my wealth, which I'm guessing. Yeah, due to real estate. So then it's like, well, I'll park my wealth in real estate and then maybe I can help other people with real estate, which leads to the real estate empire.
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B
Yeah, I really wasn't thinking about other people at that point.
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A
Okay.
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B
I was like, dude, I just want to buy some real estate. Right. So I went and bought 48 units. Then I bought 38 units and I bought 92 units. I literally bought 270 units in 90 days.
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A
When was this?
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B
Vista San Diego, California. 1997. 1998 maybe pre Internet bubble and there was more u hauls leaving the state of California than going in. Bro. I was just converting. All I was doing was con. I had no clue what I was doing. Mark zero. I knew nothing. I didn't know what noi was.
- [27:24]
A
Okay.
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B
I just knew that the real estate was better than the paper and, and the paper being the money. And I knew if I, if I kept the money I was going to leave it in a bank. And if I left it in a bank, it was going to deteriorate. This is 40 years ago and nobody was talking about, you know, what's it called? $.
- [27:51]
A
Like the melting ice cube.
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B
Yeah, whatever.
- [27:55]
A
All, all these, the debasement of the dollar. How the Dollar's losing its value.
- [27:58]
B
Yes, the debasement. The dollar debasement. We weren't talking about all that stuff, dude. We weren't printing money at scale. You know, this is before the tarp, before COVID Before, like, before we went insane. And I knew then that money would be less valuable in the future. And I also knew that if I left money in the bank, I would end up spending it. And the 90 day emergency account was always a stupid plan for me. I'm like, why would someone plan for an emergency? Because if you do the math, okay, if I. If I save, let's say, a hundred thousand dollars, and I'm like, a hundred thousand dollars is going to get me and my company through three months of. First of all, I got a hundred thousand dollars sitting there not earning money. Two, I'm going to find an emergency to fund that 100 grand, okay? Or somebody's going to steal the money from me. I had this happen to me recently where one of the apartment buildings called me and said, hey, Mr. Cardone, we need. We need some. Some outdoor furniture. And you have enough money in the account to pay for it. I said, really? How much is it? 242 grand. Oh, okay, Let me call you right back. I'm gonna go look into that. I called the office. I called the. I called my guy here in the. On the floor above me, and I said, Ryan, move $242,000 from the Austin account to my personal account and do it right now. Wire it in right now. I want a distribution. I want an extra distribution this month. And I called the property back like an hour later. Hey, guys, I looked into that. There's not. You don't have enough money for that, for the outdoor furniture? Oh, yeah, yeah, we checked this morning. I said, go check again. They called me back. You're right. There was a special distribution we didn't know about. Exactly. Now, do you guys still need that outdoor furniture? No, we don't need it. We. We can wait. I said, that's a great idea. So the point of that story is, if you guys keep cash around, two things happen to it. One, it goes down in value, and number two, somebody's going to figure out a way to. To waste it. And so what I would do is I'd take that 242 or whatever the number was. I'd take my extra cash. And I've been playing this game 40 years for 40 years on myself. I take all my extra cash, I throw it into a real estate deal that's Ill liquid. I want to be ill liquid. I don't want liquidity. And when I get rid of that money, I go back to being broke again. I have no money, which keeps me in my hustle now. I got to go talk to people again. And I could continue to expand while this thing back here does its little slow go, you know, slow and steady little drip. Maybe I get 5% or 6% a year and I live off that 5 or 6%, but I never touch the original capital.
- [31:02]
A
Let me ask you a question about what you said though, because a lot of times people confuse cash and liquidity. So, like, cash is liquidity, but liquidity is not cash, right? So like you, your cash is gone. But liquidity could come from credit lines, other assets that you could leverage, which you wouldn't do to pay, you know, in an emergency, but you use that for additional deals. So do you see, I mean, do you look at that differently or am I digging in?
- [31:28]
B
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't go to liquidity first because I'm so good at going to get new money again.
- [31:32]
A
Got it.
- [31:34]
B
And the reason I'm good at getting new money again, I'm not bragging that I'm good get. But if you're broke all the time and you, you don't want to be broke all the time, you develop the skill to get money all the time. So I heard this Jay Leno, I heard Jay Leno in an interview once say that he never spent his money from the Tonight Show. He used all the money. If he wanted to improve his quality of living, he would go work side hustles on the weekends and do, you know, gigs. And that's how he made his payments. All his other money, his Tonight show money, was all invested. And so when I heard that, I started duplicating that. I took that concept and said, I'm going to take all my earned income. I'm going to dump it into a real asset. This li illiquid. I'm going to get a drip off of it. So I'm going to turn a million dollars into 50 grand a year. I got to live off of 4,000 bucks a month of passive income. That's how I improve the quality of my life. And I'm going to stay broke off my earned income. Well, what happened? When you do that, it also gets you this big tax benefit that you talk about all the time of buying the real estate. So every March or April, I was getting back this big check that had been withheld from my, that was kind of Just stumbling into.
- [32:49]
A
And that's such a big piece. That's a massive piece because people are leaking 30, 40, 50% of their wealth to the government every year. And if you could just get some of that money back or all of that money back, how much faster could you build your wealth? And people just completely overlook that entire piece?
- [33:04]
B
Dude, you. How much faster would it be? It'd be 40 times three. So it'd be. I say, people are talking about the cost of gasoline. I'm like, dude, worry about the cost of the irs. And once you figure out how not to pay these people, they're going to audit you. So that's going to cost some money, too. I got my fifth audit coming up right now. I just got another notification in the mail. But it's every American's obligation to figure out how to reduce your tax bill to zero, if you can.
- [33:30]
A
Yeah, yeah. And real estate's a great mechanism to do that. I. I love that. I love the frame of mind that you have and. And to. To the point that you're making. I mean, if more people could just even tap into some of that. I remember I didn't want to go to college. My mom really wanted me to go to college, and I was like, maybe I'll take a gap year. I'll just go make some money in between. And she's like, no, no, no. As soon as you start making money, you won't want to go back. And sure enough, she was right. And I. And I look at a lot of people who. And. And this is the blanket statement, but a lot of people who went through college, they learned how to live broke in college, and then they just kind of continued the living broke. And for me, I started making money right away, and I never want to stop making money. Which, speaking of that, as a father, I have two daughters. I think you have two daughters as well.
- [34:13]
B
That's right.
- [34:14]
A
I love my daughters.
- [34:15]
B
Oh, my God. Dude, it's the best thing in the world.
- [34:18]
A
It is. It's the best thing in the world. It's. It's. Yeah.
- [34:21]
B
How old are your kids?
- [34:22]
A
17 and 22.
- [34:25]
B
Yeah. Good for you, man. Yeah, mine are 13 and 17.
- [34:28]
A
Yeah. So you're a few years behind me. How do you instill that mindset into them?
- [34:35]
B
Well, I don't give them money. You know, I don't give them an allowance. They work for the company. If they don't want to work for the company, they don't get any money. So they have a. Agreement since they were six years old of Activities they have to do each year. And they get paid X dollars for that. Those dollars then get put into a real estate transaction. That's illiquid.
- [35:03]
A
Okay.
- [35:04]
B
And they have to live off the drip.
- [35:05]
A
Oh, wow. Okay. So.
- [35:08]
B
So, you know, when they were six years old, Sabrina got a check for 50,000 bucks, I think it was, she had to do. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. A number of things. Show up for events, shake hands with people, make phone calls. Ever since she was six years old. Even the little six year old voice. My dad wants to know why you didn't buy a ticket, you know, and did they learn so many great skills from that? We'd be at live events, they'd have to go shake hands with all the VIPs. Thank you so much. My mom and dad want to thank you for being here. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So when they need something or want something, they have their own money. I get to write it off, by the way. It's a write off for me. An allowance is not write off. It's income for them. And then we, we deposit the money into a real estate event, which 10 years from now they'll be 27 and really needed because we're buying real estate for long, long term, you know, 10 and 15 and 20 year, we're buying great assets, as you know. And then let's say that piece of property, they put in 50 grand, it pays them 2500 bucks a year. It pays them 200 bucks a month. They can do anything they want with that. 200. Yeah, they can waste it, blow it most. Most of the time they don't, you know, I want an iPhone. Okay, good, you got your own money. See, I can't write off that iPhone, so why should I pay for it? So, yeah, that's how we do it with the money, dude. And then the other thing is, anytime they want something they can't afford, like yesterday Scarlett wanted something. I'm like, okay, negotiate a deal. And she's like, I don't want to do that. I said, okay, well then don't do it, dude. Like, all I can tell you is this is how the game works.
- [36:52]
A
So, meaning, mean when you say negotiate a deal, meaning like, bring me some proposal why I should give you that money and what you're going to do for it in return.
- [37:00]
B
Yeah, number one. But number two is you need to go back to them and get the price lower. And which is a very, very uncomfortable thing for all human beings to do. And the sooner people can learn this, I think the better off they are. I don't care what it is. I'm going to ask for a discount. Like, is there a special deal you can make me? Is there a way to do something special for me? It's just a muscle, man. I got to grow the muscle. I'm trying to get Kanye. Kanye tickets right now. Like, hey, dude, what can you guys do to give me back door? Like, how can you get me in there? Like, where do you want to sit? Where I want to sit with him. Like, you got to learn, you. You don't get what you deserve on this planet. You get what you ask for.
- [37:41]
A
Yeah.
- [37:42]
B
And then you only get what you asked for. And then persisting it. So I told her she wanted to buy these workout classes. And I said, the girl wants 1600 bucks for 10 sessions. Go back and tell her you'll give her a thousand bucks for ten sessions. And she's like, oh my God, I can't do it. I said, oh yeah, you can. You can and you will. And then, you know, she went back and she asked her, and the lady came back and said, I'll do it for 1250. And I said, okay, go back to her and say, he said he would do 12 for 1250. He'll give you the 1250. But it's 12 sessions. And you know, the chick agreed and Scarlett learned something. And yeah, you know, that's how. That's how I teach my kids about money.
- [38:26]
A
What I love about that is you're getting them focused on or getting them used to living off the passive income, not spinning down the capital, but living off of the income from that. Okay, so I got to tell you what I've been doing with my money lately. I moved my cash over to river. And before you ask, yes, I still pay all my bills in dollars, dollars. Everything works the same. But here's the real difference. You see, river pays me 3.3% on my cash, and they pay it in bitcoin. So my money that was just sitting there doing nothing at all in the bank, it's now stacking bitcoin while I sleep. And I started thinking like, my bank takes my deposits, they loan those deposits out, they make 12, 17, 24, and they pay me 0.04%. I mean, honestly, that's kind of a shakedown when you think about it. Now, Rivers, FDIC insured, they use full reserve. They charge no fees. So I don't know why I didn't do this sooner. So click the link down below and get $100 in Bitcoin just for Getting started. We're infected by this fiat mindset. The entire retirement plan you called, you know, you're pretty outspoken, Vocal on the 401k. We touched on that already. But the entire retirement plan is that I'm supposed to save in this 401k vehicle and then I spend down my assets and I hope I die before I hit zero. Like, what kind of strategy is that, bro?
- [39:37]
B
It is insane.
- [39:38]
A
Insane.
- [39:40]
B
It is brilliant for Vanguard and Fidelity and Merrill and Schwab, but it has been brutal on the American people. And Look, I was 21 years old when I started my first retirement account. And I thought it was a great thing to do. And by the way, it looks great until you hear about what great really looks like. And so I think the 401k IRA and Roth plan are some of the most destructive wealth vehicles. Again, good for Vanguard, that's why they're worth 11 trillion. But terrible for the American people. As you know, Mark and I've heard you talk about the, the, your partner in an IRA is clearly the IRS. And had the IRS not approved the 401k, it wouldn't be in place. So you gotta, you gotta understand that the thing you're investing in, you know, do you guys really think that that's going to be bad for the IRS and the government? No, that wasn't put together for the people. Was put together for, for Wall street to control money for 35 years. And like you say, man, when you get, when you get to 70, I think it's 72 or 73. And your force, what's it called, the minimum or the force requirement? The, the withdraw for seller, you have to, even if you don't need the money. Okay, well guess what? The 4% you have to withdraw every year times 25 years, which is your expectation to live. 4 times 25 is 100. 100% of what you had will now be what Mark said was zero. Now you own nothing in the account, nothing to pass on. Well, you could have used real estate to do the same thing. At 52 years old, you would have 20 years of cash flow from the real estate, 20 years of appreciation, you would have all the tax write offs. And then at the 20th year, when you're forced to withdraw, you also have 20 years of rent growth which could be 4x by now. So you started $800, you could be at a 30, $200 rent now. And you don't withdraw any of the capital. You just take 4% of the original amount, withdraw it and live off the cash Flow and then, and then when you die, pass on the piece of real estate to your kids.
- [42:00]
A
And what people miss is that, and I, what people miss is that the debt based monetary system we have, money's created through debt issuance and then the tax code, the IRS being your partner, both of those are designed for owners. The tax code is written for owners and investors, it's not written for consumers. And so you go from owning assets to selling them and now you're a consumer. So the credit system doesn't like you, you have no assets and the IRS doesn't give you any preferential treatment because you're also a consumer. And so you remove yourself from an owner to a consumer and then you get nailed. And then people wonder why.
- [42:30]
B
Yeah, and, and the other thing is the, the, the other negative about the 401k, unless you're actively moving like managing that money in most cases, if you go into one of these mutual funds that everybody promotes, by the way, you know, be careful about things that everybody promotes. You know, you need the mask. Get the vaccine. Okay. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. All these things that we're told over and over, you know, cigarettes make women look sexy. These, these have all been propaganda machines that have been sold to the American people to make us fatter and sicker and poorer. And that's not a conspiracy thing by the way. That is just whatever it is, you know, like the masses are what they are, the masses and they're not doing well. The middle class in America is not doing well as a group of people. And I believe it's not because they're financially illiterate, but that we've been financially indoctrinated to do certain things. And my mom told me the same thing about college that your mom told you, go to college, you need to go there, it's going to give you a chance and, and so save your money. You know, buy a house. Like buying a house. Who did that help?
- [43:48]
A
Yeah, it's a, I was just going over that with someone the other day. It's the worst financial decision you could make. We buy them for non financial decisions, but it's a pretty bad financial decision. But it's, it's just following the age old advice which as you can see, doesn't work out. Half of baby boomers today have zero savings. The largest segment hitting the homeless population is baby boomers. So we can see how well that, that, that advice worked out for them. Not very well.
- [44:13]
B
And, and one other thing, Mark, I'd say is like if, if people would just simply study the wealthiest people on the planet, okay, they don't. Elon Musk does not have a retirement account that, that's invested in 100 different stocks. Like, if you have $100,000 sitting in a Vanguard account, there's a good chance that it only has $1,000 invested in 100 different stocks. So the chances of you getting that account to ever really hit payday is so small, if even. It's probably not even possible at all. Of the 500 stocks, I think 493 of them are probably flat or negative today, with only seven winners out of the bunch. And so when you take a mutual fund and people are taught to diversify, wealthy people do not, as you know, don't diversify. They, they go heavy on one or two things and they just wait it out, make it work.
- [45:18]
A
If you look at Ray Dalio's All Weather portfolio, I believe there's like 17 positions. And over the last, like two decades, it's average like a seven and a half percent return. And, you know, through wealth concentration, like, I invested in my businesses, real estate and bitcoin. And you've been, obviously, we talked about your businesses, we talked about the real estate empire that you built up. And now let's pivot to that third piece of that bitcoin piece. So last time I sat down with you was about a year ago, and I believe you had just announced that one of your real estate properties that you bought was going to. You. You, you told me that you went and. Or you put up the money and then you were going to go raise the money then to backfill that. That. So that was at the bitcoin conference last year. And then you were going to take a percentage of that and then put it into bitcoin. I believe you're going to take the cash flows that came from that property and then put that into bitcoin. Now, that was a year ago. A lot has happened since now and then. So where are you with blending? And I told you at the time, I said, I think you're going to build the most valuable real estate company in the world. That's what I told you.
- [46:19]
B
Yeah. Thank you.
- [46:20]
A
That's what I told you a year ago. So. So how has that progressed? Where are we at with that now?
- [46:24]
B
Well, we've done. I think this was a year and a half ago. You. We did. Our first deal was called the Melbourne Project 10x Melbourne Bitcoin Fund. It was $72 million of real estate, $15 million of Bitcoin. It now has $20 million of Bitcoin in it because we use the cash flow each month to add bitcoin. I think we added three coins to that account today by the way, at 75,000. We are on our seventh fund now. We've done almost $1 billion of real estate deals, added about 2,000 bitcoin. And what we do is we buy the real estate, we drop it into an entity, llc, we'll call it something, right? Like I did a deal seven months ago, it was $235 million in Boca Raton main in Maine, best in class. I mean I'm not even exaggerating. Probably the best piece of real estate I've bought in my entire career. 366 units. Boca Raton. Like you cannot go through Boca Raton and not see this building. Takes up the whole block. Fantastic, beautiful real estate. Ocean views, views of a golf course, 40 million dollar homes in front of it. Just perfect. We bought it out of bankruptcy and we bought it for $235 million. It would take 450 to build it today. So rather than just taking cheap real estate or what looks like a great deal, we stacked a hundred million dollars of bitcoin on top of it. So for every unit we bought two and a half bitcoin.
- [47:55]
A
Wow.
- [47:56]
B
So for every apartment unit that we think we can condo by the way, and sell off, we also own two and a half Bitcoin. 366 units and 1075 Bitcoin. 1075 plus 100, no, 1183. Bitcoin I think is what it is now. And we put them in an llc. I fund the whole thing with my money. I buy the real estate and the bitcoin with my money. We put some debt on it as well. And then we offer to my public, my public comes in, they fully funded. Now we're on our seventh one. They fully funded, over subscribed seven real estate bitcoin hybrids. Then we had the big pullback. So when I was talking to you a year and a half ago, I didn't have that to tell you about. So we got the feedback from our investors about the pullback. We've also, you know, before we opened today on this show, you said, hey, were you at the bitcoin conference? I said no, I didn't go to that. Those people aren't going to invest in my real estate bitcoin hybrid because they think that they're better off with bitcoin by itself. And I would suggest to people that no, you're not, actually, because I'm going to take the hybrid public and the two combined, fused together, particularly at scale. 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15 of these projects all fused together with the real estate and the bitcoin are stuck. Fused together, merged. When we take them public, they're going to be worth more together, particularly when we start having meetings with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac saying, hey, guys, I'm going to have a lot of debt here. It's going to be a couple billion dollars worth of deals. A billion dollars worth of debt. I'm probably going to have. I could have 2 billion, 2, 2 or 3 billion dollars worth of equity in these deals when bitcoin starts flying again, because it's going to go vertical before the real estate will the ver. The real estate is going to do a slow and steady thing and has liquidity problems along the way, as you know. And the. And the bitcoin could, could do the same thing, by the way, but over the next seven years or nine years or 11 years, I don't know what you think bitcoin will be worth in seven or eight or 10 years, but I'll still own the real estate and I'll still own the bitcoin and all of it'll be ready for a new loan.
- [50:20]
A
You wouldn't put all your money in one stock, so why have your whole life in one single country? Now, if you've thought about another passport, Italy and bitizenship might just be what you've been looking for. Italy has one of the most underrated golden visas in all of Europe. Just a €250,000 investment threshold. And with bitizenship, you can make that investment into bitcoin, not some risky business venture or real estate that you don't actually want. Approval times are usually about three to six months, and you don't put any money in until your visa is approved. Plus, with the golden visa, there's no physical residency that's required. You can get full Schengen access from day one and it's renewable forever. Now. Italy puts you at the heart of Europe and with Schengen access, it gives you flexibility across 29 countries. If you want another passport and you want your investment to have bitcoin, except exposure like me, then bitizenship may be the answer you're looking for. So go to bitizenship.com markmoss and check it out. I would imagine Bitcoin's 10x. You know, I see 10x behind you. I would say Bitcoin's 10x in the next seven years. So you get that, that convexity to the upside from the bitcoin, you get the slow steady appreciation with the cash flow and tax depreciation off the real estate. And so from a blended return, that's why it looks so powerful.
- [51:34]
B
Yeah. So I mean, if it gets to a million dollars, whether seven years or 10 years, that means we make a billion one on the, on the, on the, on the bitcoin, a billion one. And I still own the real estate,
- [51:46]
A
so an investor into that fund, then I get the depreciation and the cash flow of the real estate and whatever upside is there and then I get the potential upside from the bitcoin kicker as well.
- [51:57]
B
Yeah, what we did on that deal was we did an 8 pref. We've done different, we do different things to figure out, we're kind of trying to figure out where the market is on this, on this one we did an 8 pref, meaning the investor gets the first 8 each year. If it doesn't pay out anything in 10 years, I owe the investor their, their investment plus 80% and then we do a 50, 50 split on the upside. So my goal is to get these things to do 40 a year. Yeah, 30 to 40% a year. As you know, real estate is not going to do that.
- [52:30]
A
Not alone.
- [52:31]
B
Very, very difficult for a real estate deal to do that. If it does 12 or 15, it's doing great. Most of the REITs throw off maybe eight or nine. Yeah, a good levered return for a, you know, for Calpers or something is a seven. I mean, I'll destroy the Reed industry if this works. I'm going to suck 5 or 10% out of a $4 trillion business that can never ever compete with this real estate bitcoin hybrid because they can't do it by law. They can't. Their structure won't allow them, as you know, to hold any currency on their balance sheet. So we think, I think it's a great disruptor. Dude. I've showed it to, since I met with you, I've showed it to seven banks and six of the seven were like, yeah, we want to be involved or we want to do that, but we can't. Can we help take you public because they're so heavy in the reap part of their business.
- [53:37]
A
Yeah, I love that. And, and one thing, you know, that blended return gives you, you know, more potential upside. And you look at like what Sailor is doing with disrupting sort of the fixed income markets with the prefs. Right. And I mean, he's pulling in billions of dollars at a time based off of just offering above average yield on a pref. And if you have the real estate, which already gives you the 8% pref already, and then you throw the bitcoin kicker on top of it, if you could pay 10%, I mean, you could just suck in money like it's going out of style.
- [54:04]
B
Yeah, well, hey, my question to you is, would you rather his 11 on strc and no upside in the bitcoin, or would you rather 8 on a real estate deal and 50% of the. The upside of the bitcoin?
- [54:18]
A
Yeah, well, I think the answer to that, I mean, I think. I think they both make sense depending on what my, you know, what I'm trying to achieve. But, you know, he has other prefs as well. So like Strike and Strife and Stride, for example, pay an 8% pref, but then you get the potential upside, but you get the stock volatility. So that pays comparable 8% pref, but less volatility because it's not on the stock. It's on the real estate. So the real estate's less volatile than a stock, most likely. Right. And then you get the upside. Right. So if I buy strike, I get 8% pref, plus I get the volatility of the bitcoin, but I do get the upside with the downside. And so you would pay the same thing. 8% volatility of real estate's a little bit less, but the upside potential is a little bit higher because you put the bitcoin kicker on top.
- [54:59]
B
Yeah, the other. The other benefit I have is that, you know, I'm selling my book right now, but the other benefit is that I'm not public yet.
- [55:09]
A
Yeah.
- [55:10]
B
Okay. So just consider that any of the investors that come in on these deals that we're doing now, the goal is to take this public. I just want to build it to scale. And, you know, if I go public today with a real estate bitcoin hybrid. If you went to. If you went public with a real estate company today, you'd get discounted. If you went public with a bitcoin only business today, I mean, you couldn't even go public. I mean, I don't think anybody would even fund it.
- [55:39]
A
I mean, we've seen several treasury companies in the last year pop up and go public trading. Trading.
- [55:44]
B
Well, I know, but not, Not. Not this. Not. Not since January.
- [55:48]
A
Not since January.
- [55:49]
B
That ship sailed back in October last year. Right. I think most of that dried up because of the pullback. But I think if we put both of these together and this tell the story of institutional quality, best in class real estate cash flow positive. The investors are already invested, by the way. We're not going to the Wall street to raise money. We're just going there to bring it public, bring the liquidity and allow the rest of my audience that can't put 200 grand or 300 grand in a deal now they can buy $10, a $10 stock and get access to this. It would provide liquidity to these original members of the LLC and possibly give us all some liquidity and maybe a 10x, no pun intended, windfall.
- [56:33]
A
No pun intended. Man. Grant, I think that's a good place to stop. There's a lot of things I'd like to ask you about, but we'll save that for another time. But I think it's amazing. I. I love fusing the. Not just the two assets together. I mean, I started my career in real estate. Now I'm a bitcoin guy. I love fusing the two assets together, but I love fusing the investors together. So you're taking these like potentially old real estate investors, but then bringing bitcoin to them. So I see a lot of synergy there. I love that.
- [57:02]
B
You know, I don't know if you and I talked about this last time, but, but what we learned from this now, we've had. We've done seven deals. The demographic of the buyer of the investor in these deals. You know, people told me that was going to be the bitcoin community. I said, it's not going to be the bitcoin community, guys. Like, it's not. Yeah, okay. And they're like, why do you say that? I said, because I don't think they have any money, number one. Number two, you know, a bitcoiner. A bitcoiner is, you know, they're just knuckleheads, man. They're. They're a bit knuckleheady, you know, and, and a lot of these guys think all the juice has been taken out of this thing. I said, they're not that positive about bitcoin. And if they are, they're going to say, why would I invest in the real estate? The real estate's going to drag it down. But they don't understand that right now the only way out of your bitcoin is to sell it.
- [57:58]
A
Right?
- [57:59]
B
And, and, and if you want to get really, really rich, as you know, Mark, you don't sell your ever. Once you make a good buy, you add to it. And you add again. And you add again. Like in real estate, when we find a great market, dude, when you go fishing, bro, and you find you don't move to another place, you know, this is a stupid thing. Investors, do they. They find something where the fish are biting and then they move? No, no. As long. As long as the fish are feeding, man, you keep. You keep pulling them in the boat. And so what we want to do with real estate is we want to keep concentrating in a market and then adding the bitcoin and just wait on both of them. The second thing that we learned was the demographic of the buyer of the investor. I say it's a buyer because it really is a buyer. The age went up 15 years. It didn't go down. Everybody in our office thought the age was going to go down. It did not. Second, the check size went up by almost 50%. Bigger checks, not because we were asking for a bigger check. It just got bigger and the close took place faster. People were. People did not spend as much time doing their paperwork and. And funding the project.
- [59:15]
A
It's kind of like what you talked about when you change your sales approach in the beginning of the conversation, how you change your sales approach, how you got bigger check sizes or bigger sales, and it was easier and faster. And so you've. By adding the bitcoin, you've attracted a little bit of a different audience, which now has a little bit more money and they're making decisions a little bit faster.
- [59:32]
B
Yeah, I think what happened was it took a real estate. A guy that was bigger money that looked at real estate and would say, you know, you know, bitcoin Tiny, or his name's Tiny bitcoin or something on X. You probably know the dude. I would never do that. I would never do that. I would buy them separate. I said, first of all, Tiny, you ain't buying the real estate. I, number one, I don't care who, like, you don't have enough money to buy this real estate, bro. This. Every transaction is a quarter of a billion dollars. No offense. And I'm not trying to, like, you know, minimize you or whatever mog on you right now, bro. But you're not buying this piece of real estate, number one. And number two, you don't have the money to combine that and the bitcoin and hold them for a long period of time. Like, you haven't even bought any bitcoin in the last 11 years. We're buying both of them. We added 130 pieces of Bitcoin today.
- [60:29]
A
Yeah.
- [60:31]
B
Out of our real estate to combine with our real estate. So, dude, what's better than one good investment, two merge together to become three?
- [60:41]
A
Yeah.
- [60:43]
B
With a tax write off, by the way. And the other thing I think that happened was the investors that were looking at this, they're all long term investors anyway because they're hooked into this piece of real estate. So when we had our big pullback because we bought all the way up to 108. So we went all the way up to 108, quit buying, and then it pulled back. We have 1500 investors. I have not had one peep, not one complaint, not one crybaby from one person about, oh my God, you know what happened.
- [61:15]
A
Yeah.
- [61:15]
B
Because they all know they're connected to a long term asset.
- [61:18]
A
I love that. I. I love that. You know, in, in real estate, I remember, you know, because I started my career in real estate and I remember in 1995 buying bank owned repos in here in California. And I remember that it's saying, it's like, don't buy a piece of real estate unless you plan to hold for at least five years. And so, like, that's kind of like where my brain has always been. And then I see all these people buying bitcoin and they're like, you know, oh, but six months, I'm like, what, what, what is six months? Like, what, what do you plan on six months? So you bring sort of that, that long term perspective of real estate buyer in, and I can see how they're a little bit of a bitcoin different. Different bitcoin buyer. So that makes sense. What, what do you want to point people to? What should they be paying attention to or watching? What's coming next from Grant Cardone?
- [61:54]
B
Dude, you got to watch. Well, I don't. For me, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm become a wealth advisor. So we're building out a wealth advisory right now. Cardone wealth advisor. So I'm gonna go compete with the Merrells.
- [62:05]
A
Oh, wow.
- [62:05]
B
And, and I got a bunch. I got 20 million people follow me online and I want to help them with their money. The best thing I've ever done in my career was allow people to invest with me in my real estate. It's going to be the best thing I've ever done because it's sticky, man. It's, it's not like, you know, I've sold millions of copies of books and programs and I've made a couple billion dollars off the Internet. Internet's been really good to me, people have really supported me. There's a lot of hate that comes with it, but it's been very, very supportive. Love my career, helping people and you know, trying to give people some, you know, I see glitches or learn things or make mistakes and try to share it. And people have been super cool to me and supported me. But the best thing I've ever done that was not my idea by the way, was allow people to invest alongside with me and send people money every month. I said we sent out $8 million last month, a hundred million last year. These people are praying for me, bro. I got Muslims praying for me. I got baptists, Protestants, Jews. I mean I got, I got people like making little, little Buddha dolls to be saying, take Tara, take care of him, take care of him. Because I send him money every now. You know, it's the greatest, it's the greatest sticky product in the world, is to, you know, make somebody your partner. And people know when the 15th of the month is, dude, because I send a checkout on the 15th of the month, we send out a wire. So I hope that continues to go well. We can scale it and democratize these great assets, things that you've been investing in for years without people having to handle the gutters and the evictions and the termites. And then if the realist, if the bitcoin thing works, I mean, dude, if, if I get any percent, any tiny percent, 2% of the 4 trillion dollar REIT industry, I'm worth 80 billion.
- [64:01]
A
Wow.
- [64:02]
B
And that's kind of exciting, you know,
- [64:06]
A
just to divert this second do you know, like blackrock created a fund so they took a us, they took the US Treasuries, put the U. S. Treasury in a fund and then tokenized. It's called biddle. And so because obviously you can't really tokenize treasuries, but they start a fund with the treasuries and then they tokenized it and man, they raised like two and a half billion dollars for people. And then now that token, the treasury token now is into the defi ecosystem, which is why it's growing so fast. And that's just paying a treasury yield. I mean imagine you're sending out billions of dollars. Imagine taking like your fund and the yield and then tokenizing that in a similar way like which pays well above it pays almost 50% or more than what the, what the Biddle would pay and then it can get into the defi system and man, there's billions of
- [64:56]
B
dollars right there for you this is going to be. This is going to be people like, where's all the treasury? You know, the demand for treasury going to be. It's going to be fabricated out of the tokens. Yeah, I think people are underestimating that, that the blockchain is going to the. The real. The real benefit here is that this is an evolution of money. Okay? Imagine these real estate projects. Would Fannie Mae rather lend me money for 10 or 15 years on a real estate project only or a real estate project that has 24, 7, 365 liquidity?
- [65:34]
A
Sure, dude. Yeah.
- [65:38]
B
Fannie Mae has a mandate this year to put $188 billion on the streets. I was talking to Bill Pulte two Saturdays ago. Trump just said, hey, make it another 200 billion. He. This is a mandate, man. Yeah, a mandate means they got to push the money into the marketplace.
- [65:58]
A
Who's got my money?
- [66:00]
B
Who's got my money, man? The federal government's got my. Print that money, Bill.
- [66:04]
A
Send it. Send it to me. But yeah, I mean, man, you're paying 8% prep. I mean, you put that into a token and just like biddle into a defi ecosystem, there's billions dollars ready to soak that. That yield.
- [66:14]
B
Well, you keep me going. You see, you keep getting me excited. Because the other thing we're looking at doing is tokenizing the real estate. Just carving the real estate out. Tokenizing that and taking the. The cardone capital, the fundraising portion, and the promote part of the business public. And tokenizing the real estate to give our investors liquidity on the secondary markets. So Sammy in Singapore could buy a $10,000 token in the real estate bitcoin project.
- [66:40]
A
Yeah. Amazing. All right, Grant. Well, so much to look out for. I love, I love. I love the fire and the energy. And what you said earlier was, stay broke, dude. Stay broke. But. But it's really, you know, it's when I. When I thought about Warren Buffett, why did he work every day until he was 93? And it's because you have creators and consumers and creators just create, and that's what you do. That's what you know how to do. And, like, why would I ever want to retire from that? Like, that's what I do, right? I'm a creator, so. I love the fire. I love the hunger. It's. It's. More people should catch on to it.
- [67:14]
B
Well, dude, I'm just trying to make it, man. I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to get me and my family and into a position where I Feel good about myself.
- [67:21]
A
Well, if you weren't so. If you weren't broke every day, maybe you wouldn't have.
- [67:25]
B
Dude, every day I wake up, I'm like, God damn. I've been working so hard, and I'm still bro. And that's the beautiful thing, dude. Like. Like, that's the problem with people banking money is because every time they have a problem. This is the. This is the plight of the middle class. You know when a guy gets challenged in his 40s and 50s, and you know this because you. I'm sure you've been there. You know when you have a setback, you're like, okay, but you know what? I got my house paid for. Oh, my cars are paid for. I got a little retirement account. You're just making. You're making justifications for a setback. If you were broke, you would not say that.
- [68:00]
A
Nope.
- [68:02]
B
Because you're just gonna be like, no, bro, I'm broke now. Even the broke people do this because they're like, yep, but I'm healthy, you know? Be grateful. Yeah, you should. You shouldn't be grateful if you're broke. You should be busy. You should get busy being unbroken. And that's to all the bitcoin people out there. Go get some Fiat. You bitcoin people out there, quit hating on the Fiat. You need the Fiat to buy the bitcoin.
- [68:25]
A
Get more bitcoin to get more bitcoin.
- [68:28]
B
Yeah. Don't rest on your bitcoin laurels.
- [68:30]
A
That's right. That's right. All right, let's wrap it up with that. I'll just finish by saying, man, bring back those couples things. My wife and I want to come hang out with you and your wife. Like you were gonna do those.
- [68:40]
B
Okay, dude, we'll do it. Dude, how about. How about. We'll do it in. We'll do. Let's do shutters. We'll do Malibu in a couple months.
- [68:49]
A
Do it. I'm here in California. It's easy.
- [68:51]
B
Love to have you out there.
- [68:53]
A
All right, Grant, we're gonna wrap it up like that. We're gonna link to your stuff down in the show notes down below. Thanks for taking the time. Keep. Keep hustling.
- [69:01]
B
Hey, wild admiration for you, man. Be great.
- [69:10]
A
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