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Dan Berkovitz
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Mark Moss
What's up y'?
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Dan Berkovitz
Yes, I was appointed by the President.
Mark Moss
Why do you think you were appointed by the President for this position?
Dan Berkovitz
We put out a report that really lays out what I believe is the blueprint to make the United States the absolute leader in crypto.
Mark Moss
How do you look at the difference of bitcoin versus crypto?
Dan Berkovitz
We're able to get the genius act signed into law last year, and now we're working to get Clarity signed into law.
Mark Moss
Yeah, if the Wright brothers had to get permission and permits, they probably never would have built the airplane.
Dan Berkovitz
Well, I would argue that private property is a right that this country was premised upon it.
Mark Moss
Well, you don't have to argue that. It definitely was.
Dan Berkovitz
But there is always the threat of rogue governments, rogue states, you know, and agencies trying to seize upon that.
Mark Moss
The chance of that happening in the United States is very slim to none at this point. You're new in the chair? I've been. I think this is. So this is year seven at this conference for me. I've been making. Been making bitcoin education for a decade now. One of the most often asked objections I hear has always been, but what if the government makes it illegal? So now, as somebody sort of working inside the administration, what would you say to that question today?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, I think it's really critical that we create a space for bitcoin and crypto assets to flourish here and a space that's future proof. Right. A space that we can't have government coming in and seizing people's crypto assets and bitcoin. This country was founded on the premise of private property. And really all of our rights are derived from the right to own our own stuff, to take the fruits of our labor and work hard here in America. So I think it's really critical that we set in place clear regulations and clear statutory protections for software developers, for people who hold their own crypto assets, for holding assets through self custody or using a custodial wallet, exchanging your assets and all of that. And that's what this administration is really focused on?
Mark Moss
Yeah. So then would you say that today, in 2026, the answer to that question would be the chance of that happening in the United States is very slim to none at this point.
Dan Berkovitz
I believe that's the case. The United States today is the crypto capital of the world, and we have to make sure that it stays that way. So in answer to your question of what happens if, if we don't get this right, Yes, a government can come in and take our crypto assets. A government can come in and, and do operation choke point to 3.0.
Mark Moss
Now.
Dan Berkovitz
We saw it with the last administration, we can see it again. And so I think getting statutory guidance in place, having an act like the Clarity act is really important. Having the Genius act in place is really important for stablecoins. And we're going to do our work as regulators to make sure we have future Proof regulations in place as well.
Mark Moss
Now, CFTC has been regulating Bitcoin, I believe, since 2017, if I'm not mistaken.
Dan Berkovitz
That's right. We were one of the first agencies to move into the crypto space with the bitcoin futures product, which what you're referring to.
Mark Moss
Right. So, I mean, a lot of what you're talking about, putting statutory rules and stuff to kind of protect it from the government, that hasn't really been addressed since 2017. This is sort of like a new imperative.
Dan Berkovitz
Well, I think the biggest risk under the last administration was the debanking and was the driving of the crypto asset industry offshore. So if you had any connection to Bitcoin or zcash or any crypto asset, you were effectively placed on a list and banks would refuse to do business with you. And many of the industry participants actually had bank accounts with some of the larger banks. And then one day they got a notice saying that their bank was being closed. And many of these companies had trouble making payroll and, you know, meeting their needs of their, their business. And so we can't have that happen here in the United States again. We've got to make sure that we put in place real clear rules and regulations to protect the industry in the United States.
Mark Moss
Yeah, I'm a partner at a venture fund called Bitcoin Opportunity Fund and it has the name bitcoin in the fund. And we had investors that were trying to send money to us, but their banks wouldn't allow them to send us money because we had the word bitcoin in our name. I mean, it was just crazy. I have a lot of offshore contractors that I hire and we used some different payment tools to send them money. And one of the people that we were sending money to, their name of their corporation had bitcoin in it. Not only did they block the transaction, they shut our whole countdown. It's just like it was crazy. You don't want to miss it. I'm talking about the biggest event in the world. I just got back from the bitcoin conference in Las Vegas. One of the biggest events in the world, one of the best events that you can attend. And the next one just got announced. We're talking about 2027, July 15th through 17th, this time in Nashville. I'm going to be there and I hope to see you there as well. And right now you can get tickets for cheaper than you can get them any time of the year, pre sale right now. And you can get them 10% off if you use my code. I'll put a link to it down in the show, notes down below. Make sure you come. I hope to see you there. Don't miss it. Make this administration is sort of trying to fix that, or not just fix it, but maybe prevent that thing from happening again. You mentioned some of these statutory changes. I typically think about, you know, the Constitution and our rights shall not be infringed. I've seen some states are trying to enshrine the right of self custody into that. Like don't infringe on that, would you say? And, and the CFTC is obviously a different sort of body there, but is it more about passing laws that protect that versus like trying to protect your right to have that?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, I would argue that private property is a right that this country was premised upon.
Mark Moss
Well, you don't have to argue that.
Dan Berkovitz
It definitely was.
Mark Moss
Yeah.
Dan Berkovitz
So our Constitution is designed to protect private property rights, but there is always the threat of rogue governments, rogue states, you know, and agencies trying to seize upon that and create barriers to being able to hold your own property. Yeah, I do believe that having statutory so legislation in place essentially to protect that is really important. But also as regulators, there's a lot we can do in promulgating rules and regulations that can protect the industry. Here in the United States we've been doing a lot of work to protect self custody through guidance and through no action letters. So we recently provided a no action letter to the self custodial wallet software firm Phantom, which allows for users of Phantom to rely on that software and for Phantom to offer that software in the United States without the threat of having to register and comply with onerous rules and regulations designed for intermediaries. And that will allow for people to use their own assets in our derivatives markets to be able to self custody their collateral and their assets that they're putting into markets.
Mark Moss
Okay, I was wondering how that fit into the futures market so they can actually self custody their assets and still participate in the markets.
Dan Berkovitz
That's right. And that's a novel innovation that we did not have prior to this administration. And I think that's really a core component of making the United States crypto capital of the world. Of course I'd argue today it is the crypto capital of the world, but we can't have a crypto capital world where you're not able to participate in the derivatives markets using your own self custodial wallet software. So we've now made that possible.
Mark Moss
Yeah. Wow, that's pretty amazing. How do you look at the difference of, of Bitcoin versus crypto. So, you know, again, we talked about the CFTC has already sort of been regulated since 2017. It seems like, you know, previous administrations with Gensler, head of the sec, both from the CFTC and the SEC sort of looked at Bitcoin differently. So I'm curious today how you're looking at Bitcoin versus digital assets. Does it all get lumped together or do you look at those differently with different types of regulations there?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, Bitcoin was the first true crypto native digital asset. And I believe that bitcoin has a number of properties that distinguish it from other crypto assets, in particular, of course, the anonymous or pseudonymous founder, Satoshi Nakamoto. And so having that kind of integrity around, there's truly no central person or group that you can identify as the founder of that. And so I do think that lends to a greater decentralization argument for that network. But the way that we're looking at the asset class isn't the prior administration's, oh, well, there's always a corporation in the middle or some person in the middle that we need to kind of regulate and choke off. We're looking at this as a new opportunity for Americans to be able to own their own assets, utilize blockchain networks. Whether it's a tokenized stock or tokenized commodity or a native asset like Bitcoin or Ether, anything else, we want to set in place protections for all of it. Of course, Bitcoin, I think in a market where there's competition, it can compete on some of the merits of its decentralization and the way the network's designed and kind of the single focus of the network where it really is designed to be able to hold, you know, something with. With value and, and transact in value, as opposed to doing meme coins and NFTs and, you know, other sorts of decentralized applications. So I think our view is that we like it all and we want to create a space where people can be creative and come up with new types of digital assets and products.
Mark Moss
So then, just to try to clarify this, you have. Typically you're regulating commodities. And are you saying that Bitcoin isn't regulated like a commodity, even though there's no central issuer? Right. It's fungible no matter where you get it in the world. It's not dependent on a common enterprise. But you're not really considering a commodity. You're considering it more of a digital asset, which is actually something different.
Dan Berkovitz
No, I would view Bitcoin and the Agency has always considered Bitcoin to be a commodity.
Mark Moss
Okay, good.
Dan Berkovitz
So it is a type of digital commodity, but of course it itself is a commodity. And most crypto assets in our view, with the exception of tokenized security. So we've put out new guidance together with the SEC clarifying a taxonomy of various different types of digital assets. And in our view, Bitcoin falls within the digital commodity category of digital assets, but itself is a commodity, of course.
Mark Moss
Are there any other digital assets that fall? Is there one or two or is it too exhaustive to even list?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, we've set out a number of categories, so the categories that we've enumerated are digital commodities, which include Bitcoin, Ether, Solana, zcash.
Mark Moss
Those are digital commodities.
Dan Berkovitz
That's right. So these are all assets that are native, they're attached to a network, and they have intrinsic value based on the network itself and their utility to people who are using them in everyday commerce. We also have digital collectibles, things like NFTs and other trading cards and things like that that are put on a blockchain. We have digital payment stablecoins, so that's another area. And then digital securities. So digital securities are things like tokenized stocks and bonds. And then we also have a category called digital tools that we've put out in this release and that includes things like liquid staking, receipt tokens and things like that, where you're utilizing it as a tool in commerce.
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Dan Berkovitz
We're hoping to have this bill on the President's desk for signature very soon. We're really at a critical moment where we've got a couple months left to get this across the finish line and it's all hands on deck. We're really optimistic based on some of the recent compromise discussions. And of course there is this issue amongst the banks and the crypto community around yield, which we thought had kind of resolved itself when we got the Genius act signed into law. But there's still some concern that, you know, some of the stablecoin operators are able to offer reward type, you know, incentives to users and the banks have been concerned about that. So we're hoping to get all of that resolved. We think we've got compromise in place. And you know, I would expect this to be out for markup very soon as, as well as the overall Senate vote.
Mark Moss
And why do you think that's so important to get that passed very soon?
Dan Berkovitz
As you said, My concern is that if we don't future proof the asset class and the technology here in the United States with legislation and nothing is more the state.
Mark Moss
The stablecoin bill specifically?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, the stablecoin bill is separately, so I'm talking about the Clarity act, but the stablecoin bill similarly, you know, without legislation, things can be changed by future administrations very easily. Nothing's more permanent than legislation when it comes to politics and Policy. And so getting a clear statute in place that says these assets are lawful assets here in the United States, companies have the certainty that they can build and the clarity as to how they can do it here in the United States. That's going to unlock a lot of new innovation and business activity here in the United States. So the Genius act, of course, did that for stablecoins. We now have a number of banks that are entering the space. We have new neo banks that are coming in to issue stablecoins as well. And now with Clarity, which is the market structure bill, we can start to see more businesses innovate with custodial, you know, businesses as well as exchanges and the like. So this is a really important piece of legislation we want to get done in the United States.
Mark Moss
Does some of that make it easier for businesses to raise equity? So you mentioned, like tokenized securities, for example. So rather than going through the long, arduous, very expensive process of going public, is there some sort of carve out a provision that makes it easier, faster, cheaper for companies to go raise money publicly using a securitized token?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, without the clarity and certainty as to how to do it and understanding that what you're doing is something that's lawful and won't be taken away from you in the next administration, there is some concern about coming into the United States and engaging in these activities. Many of the firms that are doing innovation in tokenized securities are doing it offshore, and we want that to be here in the United States with clear rules and investor protection. So I do believe that with the partnership of the SEC and CFTC working together to provide clarity to innovators in the space, that's going to bring a lot of new capital into the United States. That's going to allow for companies to decide to tokenize their stock or invest in different types of digital assets and offer those opportunities to Americans on a. On a regular basis with. With the clarity they deserve.
Mark Moss
Yeah. And if they can get to market faster, cheaper, and raise more money, then it's good for the overall economy. You know, it seems like we're at this point where, like, technology is changing so fast in every area today. In a lot of ways, it sort of is moving faster than the government can. The regulators can sort of catch up. And then sometimes we get to a point where it's like the technology has advanced so fast, we sort of have to even rethink, why do we even do this. I was reading this article this week, and it was talking about how we're creating these humanoid Robots. And Elon Musk says the hand is the hardest part. And it's like, why are we designing them to have a hand? Why do we even have doorknobs on doors? Because we have technology. The door could just actuate and open, whatever. Right. So I'm curious, like you know, in your, in, in the commodities, for example, I mean that was originally created so we could manage crops and things like that, like really old school, hard asset, commodity driven. But now with technology, especially when we start talking about crypto assets, we're talking about 24 trading global and then we have the, all these you mentioned, I don't know, four or five different types of digital assets that don't really fit in that same framework. So I'm curious just from your take, like how do you think about sort of continuing to stay on top of these technological changes that are happening so rapidly? And you said nothing is more permanent than legislation. So sometimes we just build layers on top of layers. But at some point, do we need to sort of like carve that out and rethink how we're legislating or regulating that?
Dan Berkovitz
Over the past hundred years, we've seen our commodities markets evolve to your point, from agricultural markets, primarily where farmers, ranchers and producers were using these markets to hedge commercial risk in their business, whether it's risk of the weather changing from season to season, or the amount of crops that they're able to yield, or the input cost of energy or water and things like this. And we started to see these markets become more financial in nature. We saw currency products, we saw interest rate products, products. And now we're seeing all these new digital products. We've seen crypto assets. Bitcoin was the first futures contract in the crypto space. But we're seeing so many more today. And we're also seeing things like compute futures. So with all the data centers being built out here in the United States, there's real need to hedge that risk and the cost. That's pretty interesting, GPUs and all of that. So our markets continue to evolve and that's what's great about the United States, that we have a free market economy where we're accommodating all these new types of assets. We're seeing prediction markets and other really interesting area in the derivative space. So of course we've got to, as regulators, continue to innovate as well and think about what changes are needed in our markets. We're not paternalistic, merit based regulators. We look to the markets and understand what they're trying to do. We don't say you can trade compute futures but not grain futures or crypto futures but not metals futures. We allow for all these different things under a really broad and accommodating statutory framework. But we set rules and sometimes we need to tailor rules differently for different types of products and markets.
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Dan Berkovitz
Yes. I was appointed by the President.
Mark Moss
You're appointed? Yeah.
Dan Berkovitz
Yeah.
Mark Moss
Why do you think you were appointed by the President for this position?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, I spent many years in private practice representing financial technology firms and businesses that were really trying to build out new innovative products and services and fought the government tooth and nail to be able to get those to market. I spent a lot of time advising clients that were facing the onslaught of regulation by enforcement with the SEC and the CFTC over the years. And when the president won in 2024, had the opportunity to come into the administration, I was part of the transition team working to get the President's team up and Running and went over to the SEC and helped set up the crypto task force with Commissioner Hester Purse, who led the task force. I was the Chief Counsel and then also as a senior advisor to Chairman Atkins. And when the President called upon me to serve and appointed me to be the Chairman of the cftc, I was really humbled and honored to have the opportunity to now take my learnings from the SEC and from private practice over to the CFTC and continue to build on this momentous legacy for the President to make the United States crypto capital of the world. I also had the great opportunity while I was at the SEC to help out with the President's Working Group on Digital Asset Markets. And we put out a report that really lays out what I believe is the blueprint to make the United States the absolute leader in crypto. And we're continuing to work towards that every day.
Mark Moss
Yeah, now it makes sense. I just have to say it's very refreshing to sit down with you and hear you talk about protecting the rights of private property, protecting free markets. And it's refreshing in this, in this, in this market specifically. You know, we've just had Elizabeth Warren literally running on an anti crypto campaign. And I'm like, I don't remember growing up in America and having politicians run on making things illegal. Seems kind of weird, but so it's refreshing. And I can see why Trump would pick you. And you sort of started your career protecting those people's rights against the cftc. And so now you're sort of inside helping shape policy. So that's good. So you said that you were instrumental or you helped write the blueprint for the future of America with digital assets, I think is what you called it. What is that blueprint? Can you lay that out for us?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, there are a number of initiatives across the agencies. So this includes the sec, the cftc, treasury, as well as agencies like Department of Justice. And the aim here is to create an accommodating environment where digital finance can flourish here in the United States. And part of that is getting the various pieces of legislation in place. So we were able to get the Genius act signed into law last year, and now we're working to get clarity signed into law. And then there are a number of regulatory initiatives across the agencies. Certain products, for example, perpetual futures, are listed as something that the President wants to see here in the United States, or we also want to have protections for software developers. President has always believed strongly in the right to own your own crypto assets and be able to transact as many are aware, the President's family was a victim of the debanking of the prior administration. So we've got to make sure that that never happens again in the United States. And so we're working with the prudential regulators, the banking regulators, to make sure that the banks are not able to do that ever again.
Mark Moss
Yeah, okay. Yeah, it is interesting. He, he was persecuted by the bank so he sort of has like first hand account of that that puts him in a good place. I'm not sure if you're able to say, but I'm just curious. You mentioned a couple times the prison. The President wants to see this. The President has his opinion. To me it would seem like, I mean he's got a million things going on, like how involved could he really get into this? But as you're saying, there's several things he wants to see. So I mean from all the accounts I hear he's really involved in everything and he's really smart and he's kind of paying attention to everything. So is he down into that level, into that detail?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, President Trump is the crypto president. I mean under Trump one we saw bitcoin futures which really was a landmark achievement of the Trump administration to get this new asset class in our derivatives markets. And it's really flourished for so many years. And now in this new administration one of the priorities of course was to develop crypto roadmap for the country. And I don't think the, no other administration's ever done that before. And the last administration did the exact opposite to your point with anti crypto armies. I think we now have the pro crypto army in the Trump administration and they're really fighting to make sure that our assets are our own assets. We're able to take them and use them how we please and not have the government seize our private property rights.
Mark Moss
Yeah, and it's interesting too, I mean even Scott Bessant over in the treasury is talking about crypto and bitcoin and digital assets and you would, you know, a lot of people have always thought that they were sort of anti each other, right? Bitcoin, crypto versus the dollar. But you can see that even at the treasury they're sort of like seeing that working together. So I like that approach.
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you wouldn't put all your money in one stock, so why have your whole life in one single country? Now if you've thought about another passport, Italy and business might just be what you've been looking for. Italy has one of the most underrated golden visas in all of Europe, just a €250,000 investment threshold. And with bitizenship, you can make that investment into bitcoin, not some risky business venture or real estate that you don't actually want. Approval times are usually about three, three to six months, and you don't put any money in until your visa is approved. Plus, with the golden visa, there's no physical residency that's required. You can get full Schengen access from day one, and it's renewable forever. Now. Italy puts you at the heart of Europe, and with schengen access, it gives you flexibility across 29 countries. If you want another passport and you want your investment to have bitcoin exposure like me, then bidizenship may be the answer you're looking for. So go to bitizenship.com markmoss and check it out. I'm curious your take. You know, you talked about, like, how important this is for the US to sort of remain the crypto capital of the world and getting these blueprints through. Where do you see this in the future, like, your vision for, I don't know, 10 years out or 20 years out. Why is it so important for the US to sort of stay the capital of this?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, we've seen our financial markets and our payment systems evolve over many, many years. We were once, you know, trading in physical pits and limited by the real estate of the trading pits as to what products and things you could trade. Then we saw electronic markets really take off. We saw electronic payment systems where you're able to wire money across the world. And now we're seeing crypto. And crypto really is, I think, the next evolution of finance. And if we in the United States do not create a legal and regulatory regime that keeps it here, there's a real risk that we get behind. The President's actually said this very eloquently, that if we let China or some other country lead in crypto, that's America's loss and the innovators are just going to flood offshore. And so it's really important that we create an environment here in the US where people feel free to innovate. You know, Thomas Edison didn't go have to go to Washington and ask for permission for what he wanted to do or fear persecution for doing so. So we've got to create an environment where that's possible, where anything is achievable. And the President has always been a big supporter of crypto. And so we will continue to fight for the the crypto consumers here in the United States.
Mark Moss
Yeah. If the Wright brothers had to get permission and permits, they probably never would have built the airplane. Right. It's like it can be a little bit too, too aggressive at some point. You know, obviously, as a bitcoin guy and someone who invests in the bitcoin companies, I love what you're saying. You know, it's what we need. I'm encouraged by it. I believe that bitcoin scaled to a $2 trillion asset in spite of the government with a headwind. And so it's. It'll be amazing to see what it can do with the tailwind now. And, and like I said, I, I love. It's fresh for me to hear you talking about preserving private property and things like that in order to do this. I mean, it seems like you're very pro, The President's pro getting these things done. You are as well. You see this, like, urgency, this imperative to get it done. What are some of the biggest roadblocks that would prevent you from getting this done?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, time is always an issue. Right. We've got limited Runway to get things done. We're trying to move quickly because, you know, we've got to make sure that we keep pro crypto people in office able to continue to push for the legislation that we need in America. So time's always of the essence. We're moving quickly to get things done. We also have some roadblocks politically. Right. The anti crypto army is as much as it's defeated. They still fight us every day. So we've got to be focused. We've got to make sure that we keep the right folks in Washington who are able to execute on the mission.
Mark Moss
When you say time is the urgency of time really until the midterms, because you don't know what's going to happen after the midterms. Or is it like to the end of the term of the presidency, both of those things or.
Dan Berkovitz
Well, certainly with the legislation, you know, it's really important that we try to get this done before the midterms because if things change, it may make it more difficult to get the legislation done. So we're certainly looking at what goes on in Washington or on the Hill. And then in terms of roadblocks from an agency standpoint, of course, we can always have to deal with litigation on the things that we put out. From a rulemaking perspective, we have certain authority that's very broad, but it can always be expanded. That's why the legislation is really helpful. So we're moving on all cylinders, trying to get things done.
Mark Moss
Yeah, I'm a big believer in building the world that you want, which is why I'm deploying money to help build the bitcoin ecosystem. And so, again, like, I want a positive regulatory environment for us to build these companies in. And so I love that, and I want to help that. So for people listening, I mean, if they hear this and they align with that message and they want to help bring this, what kind of actions could they do?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, I think engagement is really important. We've set up an innovation task force, so anyone who's building and Bitcoin or in other crypto technologies can come in and meet with us. And perhaps they have some barriers to entry. There are things that they think are unachievable due to this regulation or that, and they can work with our team to help change things in. In terms of policy or work to. To figure out a path. So that's always an option. We always welcome feedback and engagement in the form of comment letters. So as we're putting out new rules and regulations, there's what's called a comment period. So the public's actually able to submit letters and comments and opine on what we're doing, and maybe they offer an improvement that we weren't thinking of and so we can change the rule before we finalize it. Or maybe there's, you know, a lot of concern that what we're doing is not good for the. The industry, and so we might not do it. So that. That those are two real important ways to engage with us.
Mark Moss
So get involved. If you're creating projects that you feel might have some gray area, get involved and talk to you about that. Or if you're getting impairments somehow talk to you about that and sort of provide that feedback.
Dan Berkovitz
Absolutely.
Mark Moss
Yeah. And. Okay, well, that's some good advice. Anything else that we missed that you want to talk about while we're wrapping this up?
Dan Berkovitz
Well, all I can say is that we're really working hard for the American people at the CFTC to future proof bitcoin and crypto assets here in the United States to make sure that there's no more debanking and that the age of Gary Gensler's regulation by enforcement and prosecution and lawfare is over. So please continue to support us and engage with us and help us make the United States crypto capital of the world.
Mark Moss
Yeah. Awesome. All right, thank you.
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The Mark Moss Show | iHeartPodcasts | May 20, 2026
In this episode of The Mark Moss Show, host Mark Moss sits down with Dan Berkovitz, the current Chair of the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC). Their wide-ranging discussion centers on the Trump administration’s strategic approach to Bitcoin and digital assets, U.S. crypto policy direction, the push to secure private property rights in crypto, and legislative efforts such as the Clarity and Genius Acts. The episode highlights how recent initiatives aim to make the United States the world’s crypto capital and protect the crypto economy from regulatory overreach, debanking, and anti-crypto political opposition.
This episode delivers a comprehensive look into the current, distinctly pro-Bitcoin stance of the Trump administration through the lens of CFTC Chair Dan Berkovitz. Listeners learn about the legal and regulatory strategies being employed to keep the U.S. at the forefront of the crypto revolution, practical avenues for industry engagement, and the real-world consequences of past regulatory missteps. If you care about the future of Bitcoin, digital assets, and financial sovereignty in the United States, this is a must-listen conversation—presented with an optimistic, battle-tested, and forward-thinking tone.