Trump’s Bitcoin Strategy Just Became Clear | CFTC Chair Mike Selig

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Trump’s Bitcoin Strategy Just Became Clear | CFTC Chair Mike Selig

The Mark Moss Show | iHeartPodcasts | May 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Mark Moss Show, host Mark Moss sits down with Dan Berkovitz, the current Chair of the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC). Their wide-ranging discussion centers on the Trump administration’s strategic approach to Bitcoin and digital assets, U.S. crypto policy direction, the push to secure private property rights in crypto, and legislative efforts such as the Clarity and Genius Acts. The episode highlights how recent initiatives aim to make the United States the world’s crypto capital and protect the crypto economy from regulatory overreach, debanking, and anti-crypto political opposition.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trump Administration’s Pro-Bitcoin Approach

• Presidential Involvement: Berkovitz discusses President Trump’s direct engagement and leadership in positioning the U.S. as the global leader in digital assets and crypto innovation.
  • “President Trump is the crypto president...In this new administration, one of the priorities, of course, was to develop a crypto roadmap for the country.” (31:19)
• Trump’s personal experience with debanking during the prior administration reportedly motivates a commitment to protecting individual financial sovereignty.
  • “The President’s family was a victim of the debanking of the prior administration. So we’ve got to make sure that that never happens again in the United States.” (29:41)

2. Regulatory Blueprint: Clarity and Genius Acts

• Genius Act: Passed to regulate stablecoins, fostering confidence and clarity for both traditional and new "neo banks" entering the space.
• Clarity Act: A broader market structure bill aimed at cementing rules for digital assets, custodians, and exchanges.
• Importance of legislation: Laws are harder to reverse than regulatory guidance, future-proofing U.S. crypto policy from political swings.
  • “Nothing's more permanent than legislation when it comes to politics and policy.” (18:29)

3. Protecting Private Property & Self Custody

• Statutory Protections: Emphasis on enshrining the right to self-custody and property rights for Americans owning digital assets.
• Regulatory Guidance: CFTC has issued no-action letters (e.g., Phantom Wallet) enabling Americans to self-custody assets while accessing derivatives markets.
  • “Our Constitution is designed to protect private property rights, but there is always the threat of rogue governments... So legislation in place essentially to protect that is really important.” (07:45)
  • “We've been doing a lot of work to protect self custody through guidance and through no action letters.” (07:50)

4. Digital Asset Taxonomy & Regulatory Approach

• Current View:
  • Bitcoin, Ether, Solana, and Zcash are categorized as "digital commodities."
  • Other categories: Digital collectibles (NFTs), stablecoins, digital securities (tokenized stocks/bonds), and digital tools (liquid staking tokens).
• CFTC and SEC have coordinated to clarify these categories, aiming for a consistent framework.
  • “Bitcoin falls within the digital commodity category of digital assets, but itself is a commodity, of course.” (11:36)
  • “We’ve put out new guidance...clarifying a taxonomy of various different types of digital assets.” (11:35)

5. Combatting Debanking and ‘Operation Choke Point 3.0’

• The CFTC and Trump administration are focused on preventing the kind of banking discrimination that previously pushed crypto firms offshore.
  • “We can’t have that happen here in the United States again. We've got to make sure that we put in place real clear rules and regulations to protect the industry.” (05:21)
• Guidance, legislation, and interagency coordination are seen as antidotes to overzealous regulatory enforcement.

6. Encouraging U.S. Innovation and Global Leadership

• Loss of crypto leadership would drive American innovation offshore, benefiting rival nations.
• U.S. must maintain an open environment so American entrepreneurs can build without fear or government permission.
  • “If we let China or some other country lead in crypto, that's America's loss and the innovators are just going to flood offshore.” (36:08)
  • “Thomas Edison didn't have to go to Washington and ask permission... We've got to create an environment where that's possible.” (36:28)

7. Call to Action: Industry Engagement & Public Participation

• Innovation task force: Builders and entrepreneurs are encouraged to engage directly with regulators to help remove policy obstacles.
  • “We've set up an innovation task force, so anyone who's building in Bitcoin or in other crypto technologies can come in and meet with us.” (39:47)
• Public comments: Participation in the rulemaking process is welcomed to ensure rules fit industry needs.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On U.S. Innovation and Regulation:
  • “If the Wright brothers had to get permission and permits, they probably never would have built the airplane.”
    —Mark Moss (02:46, repeated at 37:15)
• On Protecting Property Rights:
  • “Really all of our rights are derived from the right to own our own stuff, to take the fruits of our labor and work hard here in America.”
    —Dan Berkovitz (03:31)
• CFTC’s Approach to Self Custody:
  • “We recently provided a no action letter to the self custodial wallet software firm Phantom, which allows for users...to rely on that software...without the threat of having to register and comply with onerous rules.”
    —Dan Berkovitz (07:50)
• Legislative Importance:
  • “Nothing's more permanent than legislation when it comes to politics and policy.”
    —Dan Berkovitz (18:29)
• On Time Sensitivity:
  • “We’ve got limited runway to get things done...so time’s always of the essence. We’re moving quickly to get things done.”
    —Dan Berkovitz (38:00)
• On Combating Anti-Crypto Forces:
  • “The ‘anti-crypto army’—as much as it's defeated—they still fight us every day.”
    —Dan Berkovitz (38:16)
• On Building the Ecosystem:
  • “I'm a big believer in building the world that you want, which is why I'm deploying money to help build the bitcoin ecosystem.”
    —Mark Moss (39:25)
• On Public Engagement:
  • “We always welcome feedback and engagement in the form of comment letters...or maybe there's, you know, a lot of concern that what we're doing is not good for the industry, and so we might not do it.”
    —Dan Berkovitz (39:47)
• Closing Rally:
  • “We're really working hard for the American people at the CFTC to future proof bitcoin and crypto assets here...to make sure that there's no more debanking and that the age of Gary Gensler's regulation by enforcement and prosecution and lawfare is over.”
    —Dan Berkovitz (40:57)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:26] Discussion of Trump’s appointment of Berkovitz and setting a U.S. crypto roadmap
• [03:31] Addressing fears of government “making Bitcoin illegal”
• [05:21] Describing the debanking of crypto firms under previous administrations (“Operation Choke Point 2.0/3.0”)
• [07:50] Support for self-custody, Phantom wallet guidance, and regulatory innovation
• [11:36] Digital asset taxonomy—Bitcoin, Ether, Solana, Zcash as commodities
• [17:24] Genius Act and Clarity Act legislative updates and importance of stablecoin bill
• [22:08] Adapting regulation to rapid tech and market evolution (from crops to crypto)
• [29:41] Blueprint for U.S. global crypto leadership and lessons learned from debanking
• [31:19] Trump as “crypto president”; crafting the administration’s crypto strategy
• [36:08] Vision for why the U.S. must lead in crypto—for jobs, innovation, and competition with China
• [38:00] Roadblocks: time (midterms), political obstacles, urgency for legislation
• [39:47] How entrepreneurs can get involved and influence policy
• [40:57] Final rally to protect the future of crypto in America

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a comprehensive look into the current, distinctly pro-Bitcoin stance of the Trump administration through the lens of CFTC Chair Dan Berkovitz. Listeners learn about the legal and regulatory strategies being employed to keep the U.S. at the forefront of the crypto revolution, practical avenues for industry engagement, and the real-world consequences of past regulatory missteps. If you care about the future of Bitcoin, digital assets, and financial sovereignty in the United States, this is a must-listen conversation—presented with an optimistic, battle-tested, and forward-thinking tone.

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Transcript

[Dan Berkovitz]

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[Dan Berkovitz]

Yes, I was appointed by the President.

[Mark Moss]

Why do you think you were appointed by the President for this position?

[Dan Berkovitz]

We put out a report that really lays out what I believe is the blueprint to make the United States the absolute leader in crypto.

[Mark Moss]

How do you look at the difference of bitcoin versus crypto?

[Dan Berkovitz]

We're able to get the genius act signed into law last year, and now we're working to get Clarity signed into law.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah, if the Wright brothers had to get permission and permits, they probably never would have built the airplane.

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, I would argue that private property is a right that this country was premised upon it.

[Mark Moss]

Well, you don't have to argue that. It definitely was.

[Dan Berkovitz]

But there is always the threat of rogue governments, rogue states, you know, and agencies trying to seize upon that.

[Mark Moss]

The chance of that happening in the United States is very slim to none at this point. You're new in the chair? I've been. I think this is. So this is year seven at this conference for me. I've been making. Been making bitcoin education for a decade now. One of the most often asked objections I hear has always been, but what if the government makes it illegal? So now, as somebody sort of working inside the administration, what would you say to that question today?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, I think it's really critical that we create a space for bitcoin and crypto assets to flourish here and a space that's future proof. Right. A space that we can't have government coming in and seizing people's crypto assets and bitcoin. This country was founded on the premise of private property. And really all of our rights are derived from the right to own our own stuff, to take the fruits of our labor and work hard here in America. So I think it's really critical that we set in place clear regulations and clear statutory protections for software developers, for people who hold their own crypto assets, for holding assets through self custody or using a custodial wallet, exchanging your assets and all of that. And that's what this administration is really focused on?

[Mark Moss]

Yeah. So then would you say that today, in 2026, the answer to that question would be the chance of that happening in the United States is very slim to none at this point.

[Dan Berkovitz]

I believe that's the case. The United States today is the crypto capital of the world, and we have to make sure that it stays that way. So in answer to your question of what happens if, if we don't get this right, Yes, a government can come in and take our crypto assets. A government can come in and, and do operation choke point to 3.0.

[Mark Moss]

Now.

[Dan Berkovitz]

We saw it with the last administration, we can see it again. And so I think getting statutory guidance in place, having an act like the Clarity act is really important. Having the Genius act in place is really important for stablecoins. And we're going to do our work as regulators to make sure we have future Proof regulations in place as well.

[Mark Moss]

Now, CFTC has been regulating Bitcoin, I believe, since 2017, if I'm not mistaken.

[Dan Berkovitz]

That's right. We were one of the first agencies to move into the crypto space with the bitcoin futures product, which what you're referring to.

[Mark Moss]

Right. So, I mean, a lot of what you're talking about, putting statutory rules and stuff to kind of protect it from the government, that hasn't really been addressed since 2017. This is sort of like a new imperative.

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, I think the biggest risk under the last administration was the debanking and was the driving of the crypto asset industry offshore. So if you had any connection to Bitcoin or zcash or any crypto asset, you were effectively placed on a list and banks would refuse to do business with you. And many of the industry participants actually had bank accounts with some of the larger banks. And then one day they got a notice saying that their bank was being closed. And many of these companies had trouble making payroll and, you know, meeting their needs of their, their business. And so we can't have that happen here in the United States again. We've got to make sure that we put in place real clear rules and regulations to protect the industry in the United States.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah, I'm a partner at a venture fund called Bitcoin Opportunity Fund and it has the name bitcoin in the fund. And we had investors that were trying to send money to us, but their banks wouldn't allow them to send us money because we had the word bitcoin in our name. I mean, it was just crazy. I have a lot of offshore contractors that I hire and we used some different payment tools to send them money. And one of the people that we were sending money to, their name of their corporation had bitcoin in it. Not only did they block the transaction, they shut our whole countdown. It's just like it was crazy. You don't want to miss it. I'm talking about the biggest event in the world. I just got back from the bitcoin conference in Las Vegas. One of the biggest events in the world, one of the best events that you can attend. And the next one just got announced. We're talking about 2027, July 15th through 17th, this time in Nashville. I'm going to be there and I hope to see you there as well. And right now you can get tickets for cheaper than you can get them any time of the year, pre sale right now. And you can get them 10% off if you use my code. I'll put a link to it down in the show, notes down below. Make sure you come. I hope to see you there. Don't miss it. Make this administration is sort of trying to fix that, or not just fix it, but maybe prevent that thing from happening again. You mentioned some of these statutory changes. I typically think about, you know, the Constitution and our rights shall not be infringed. I've seen some states are trying to enshrine the right of self custody into that. Like don't infringe on that, would you say? And, and the CFTC is obviously a different sort of body there, but is it more about passing laws that protect that versus like trying to protect your right to have that?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, I would argue that private property is a right that this country was premised upon.

[Mark Moss]

Well, you don't have to argue that.

[Dan Berkovitz]

It definitely was.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah.

[Dan Berkovitz]

So our Constitution is designed to protect private property rights, but there is always the threat of rogue governments, rogue states, you know, and agencies trying to seize upon that and create barriers to being able to hold your own property. Yeah, I do believe that having statutory so legislation in place essentially to protect that is really important. But also as regulators, there's a lot we can do in promulgating rules and regulations that can protect the industry. Here in the United States we've been doing a lot of work to protect self custody through guidance and through no action letters. So we recently provided a no action letter to the self custodial wallet software firm Phantom, which allows for users of Phantom to rely on that software and for Phantom to offer that software in the United States without the threat of having to register and comply with onerous rules and regulations designed for intermediaries. And that will allow for people to use their own assets in our derivatives markets to be able to self custody their collateral and their assets that they're putting into markets.

[Mark Moss]

Okay, I was wondering how that fit into the futures market so they can actually self custody their assets and still participate in the markets.

[Dan Berkovitz]

That's right. And that's a novel innovation that we did not have prior to this administration. And I think that's really a core component of making the United States crypto capital of the world. Of course I'd argue today it is the crypto capital of the world, but we can't have a crypto capital world where you're not able to participate in the derivatives markets using your own self custodial wallet software. So we've now made that possible.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah. Wow, that's pretty amazing. How do you look at the difference of, of Bitcoin versus crypto. So, you know, again, we talked about the CFTC has already sort of been regulated since 2017. It seems like, you know, previous administrations with Gensler, head of the sec, both from the CFTC and the SEC sort of looked at Bitcoin differently. So I'm curious today how you're looking at Bitcoin versus digital assets. Does it all get lumped together or do you look at those differently with different types of regulations there?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, Bitcoin was the first true crypto native digital asset. And I believe that bitcoin has a number of properties that distinguish it from other crypto assets, in particular, of course, the anonymous or pseudonymous founder, Satoshi Nakamoto. And so having that kind of integrity around, there's truly no central person or group that you can identify as the founder of that. And so I do think that lends to a greater decentralization argument for that network. But the way that we're looking at the asset class isn't the prior administration's, oh, well, there's always a corporation in the middle or some person in the middle that we need to kind of regulate and choke off. We're looking at this as a new opportunity for Americans to be able to own their own assets, utilize blockchain networks. Whether it's a tokenized stock or tokenized commodity or a native asset like Bitcoin or Ether, anything else, we want to set in place protections for all of it. Of course, Bitcoin, I think in a market where there's competition, it can compete on some of the merits of its decentralization and the way the network's designed and kind of the single focus of the network where it really is designed to be able to hold, you know, something with. With value and, and transact in value, as opposed to doing meme coins and NFTs and, you know, other sorts of decentralized applications. So I think our view is that we like it all and we want to create a space where people can be creative and come up with new types of digital assets and products.

[Mark Moss]

So then, just to try to clarify this, you have. Typically you're regulating commodities. And are you saying that Bitcoin isn't regulated like a commodity, even though there's no central issuer? Right. It's fungible no matter where you get it in the world. It's not dependent on a common enterprise. But you're not really considering a commodity. You're considering it more of a digital asset, which is actually something different.

[Dan Berkovitz]

No, I would view Bitcoin and the Agency has always considered Bitcoin to be a commodity.

[Mark Moss]

Okay, good.

[Dan Berkovitz]

So it is a type of digital commodity, but of course it itself is a commodity. And most crypto assets in our view, with the exception of tokenized security. So we've put out new guidance together with the SEC clarifying a taxonomy of various different types of digital assets. And in our view, Bitcoin falls within the digital commodity category of digital assets, but itself is a commodity, of course.

[Mark Moss]

Are there any other digital assets that fall? Is there one or two or is it too exhaustive to even list?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, we've set out a number of categories, so the categories that we've enumerated are digital commodities, which include Bitcoin, Ether, Solana, zcash.

[Mark Moss]

Those are digital commodities.

[Dan Berkovitz]

That's right. So these are all assets that are native, they're attached to a network, and they have intrinsic value based on the network itself and their utility to people who are using them in everyday commerce. We also have digital collectibles, things like NFTs and other trading cards and things like that that are put on a blockchain. We have digital payment stablecoins, so that's another area. And then digital securities. So digital securities are things like tokenized stocks and bonds. And then we also have a category called digital tools that we've put out in this release and that includes things like liquid staking, receipt tokens and things like that, where you're utilizing it as a tool in commerce.

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See full [e-mail] hey look, you've worked hard to build your bitcoin stack. But if it's still sitting on an exchange, it's not really yours. You see, the exchange holds the keys to your bitcoin. Now, if they freeze withdrawals, if they get hacked, they go under your bitcoin. It could disappear overnight. Even if you've moved it into a single cold wallet, you're still exposed. Now that would be one device, one point of failure. If anything bad were to happen, you could lose your bitcoin. Now that's why I use Unchained. Their collaborative custody vault gives me the best of both worlds. I hold my keys, but my security doesn't depend on just one of them. Now this is where security and sovereignty actually meet. You see, Unchained's collaborative custody Bitcoin vaults use a two of three multisig model, which means that you hold two keys and Unchained holds one. That means that you own your bitcoin. But if you ever need help, their team is there to assist you without ever having control over your funds. And here's what I really like. Unchained isn't some offshore exchange or anonymous company. They're based in Austin, Texas. And when you call, you're not stuck with bots or scripts. You talk to a real bitcoiner who genuinely cares about helping you get it. Right now, they've been at it since 2016 and now secure over 12 billion in Bitcoin for people just like you and I. Now, that kind of trust doesn't happen overnight. So if you're serious about long term security and ownership, head over to unchained.com markmoss and use code Moss10 to get 10% off of your first vault. Because if you don't hold your keys, you don't hold your future. What about the stablecoins? So we have the stablecoins. We've been trying to get the Genius act through for quite some time. It seemed like it was signed, sealed, delivered. The President signed it and then it's been held up with the bankers, I guess have been objecting to paying yield on that. What's the status of that from your angle?

[Dan Berkovitz]

We're hoping to have this bill on the President's desk for signature very soon. We're really at a critical moment where we've got a couple months left to get this across the finish line and it's all hands on deck. We're really optimistic based on some of the recent compromise discussions. And of course there is this issue amongst the banks and the crypto community around yield, which we thought had kind of resolved itself when we got the Genius act signed into law. But there's still some concern that, you know, some of the stablecoin operators are able to offer reward type, you know, incentives to users and the banks have been concerned about that. So we're hoping to get all of that resolved. We think we've got compromise in place. And you know, I would expect this to be out for markup very soon as, as well as the overall Senate vote.

[Mark Moss]

And why do you think that's so important to get that passed very soon?

[Dan Berkovitz]

As you said, My concern is that if we don't future proof the asset class and the technology here in the United States with legislation and nothing is more the state.

[Mark Moss]

The stablecoin bill specifically?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, the stablecoin bill is separately, so I'm talking about the Clarity act, but the stablecoin bill similarly, you know, without legislation, things can be changed by future administrations very easily. Nothing's more permanent than legislation when it comes to politics and Policy. And so getting a clear statute in place that says these assets are lawful assets here in the United States, companies have the certainty that they can build and the clarity as to how they can do it here in the United States. That's going to unlock a lot of new innovation and business activity here in the United States. So the Genius act, of course, did that for stablecoins. We now have a number of banks that are entering the space. We have new neo banks that are coming in to issue stablecoins as well. And now with Clarity, which is the market structure bill, we can start to see more businesses innovate with custodial, you know, businesses as well as exchanges and the like. So this is a really important piece of legislation we want to get done in the United States.

[Mark Moss]

Does some of that make it easier for businesses to raise equity? So you mentioned, like tokenized securities, for example. So rather than going through the long, arduous, very expensive process of going public, is there some sort of carve out a provision that makes it easier, faster, cheaper for companies to go raise money publicly using a securitized token?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, without the clarity and certainty as to how to do it and understanding that what you're doing is something that's lawful and won't be taken away from you in the next administration, there is some concern about coming into the United States and engaging in these activities. Many of the firms that are doing innovation in tokenized securities are doing it offshore, and we want that to be here in the United States with clear rules and investor protection. So I do believe that with the partnership of the SEC and CFTC working together to provide clarity to innovators in the space, that's going to bring a lot of new capital into the United States. That's going to allow for companies to decide to tokenize their stock or invest in different types of digital assets and offer those opportunities to Americans on a. On a regular basis with. With the clarity they deserve.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah. And if they can get to market faster, cheaper, and raise more money, then it's good for the overall economy. You know, it seems like we're at this point where, like, technology is changing so fast in every area today. In a lot of ways, it sort of is moving faster than the government can. The regulators can sort of catch up. And then sometimes we get to a point where it's like the technology has advanced so fast, we sort of have to even rethink, why do we even do this. I was reading this article this week, and it was talking about how we're creating these humanoid Robots. And Elon Musk says the hand is the hardest part. And it's like, why are we designing them to have a hand? Why do we even have doorknobs on doors? Because we have technology. The door could just actuate and open, whatever. Right. So I'm curious, like you know, in your, in, in the commodities, for example, I mean that was originally created so we could manage crops and things like that, like really old school, hard asset, commodity driven. But now with technology, especially when we start talking about crypto assets, we're talking about 24 trading global and then we have the, all these you mentioned, I don't know, four or five different types of digital assets that don't really fit in that same framework. So I'm curious just from your take, like how do you think about sort of continuing to stay on top of these technological changes that are happening so rapidly? And you said nothing is more permanent than legislation. So sometimes we just build layers on top of layers. But at some point, do we need to sort of like carve that out and rethink how we're legislating or regulating that?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Over the past hundred years, we've seen our commodities markets evolve to your point, from agricultural markets, primarily where farmers, ranchers and producers were using these markets to hedge commercial risk in their business, whether it's risk of the weather changing from season to season, or the amount of crops that they're able to yield, or the input cost of energy or water and things like this. And we started to see these markets become more financial in nature. We saw currency products, we saw interest rate products, products. And now we're seeing all these new digital products. We've seen crypto assets. Bitcoin was the first futures contract in the crypto space. But we're seeing so many more today. And we're also seeing things like compute futures. So with all the data centers being built out here in the United States, there's real need to hedge that risk and the cost. That's pretty interesting, GPUs and all of that. So our markets continue to evolve and that's what's great about the United States, that we have a free market economy where we're accommodating all these new types of assets. We're seeing prediction markets and other really interesting area in the derivative space. So of course we've got to, as regulators, continue to innovate as well and think about what changes are needed in our markets. We're not paternalistic, merit based regulators. We look to the markets and understand what they're trying to do. We don't say you can trade compute futures but not grain futures or crypto futures but not metals futures. We allow for all these different things under a really broad and accommodating statutory framework. But we set rules and sometimes we need to tailor rules differently for different types of products and markets.

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okay, so I gotta tell you what I've been doing with my money lately. I moved my cash over to river. And before you ask, yes, I still pay all my bills and dollars. Everything works the same. But here's the real difference. You see, river pays me 3.3% on my cash and they pay it in Bitcoin. So my money that was just sitting there doing nothing at all in the bank, it's now stacking bitcoin while I sleep. And I started thinking like, my bank takes my deposits, they loan those deposits out, they make 12, 17, 24% and they pay me 0.04%. I mean, honestly, that's kind of a shakedown when you think about it. Now, Rivers, FDIC insured, they use full reserve, they charge no fees. So I don't know why I didn't do this sooner. So click the link down below and get $100 in Bitcoin just for getting started. Were you selected by Trump for your position? I think you were right.

[Dan Berkovitz]

Yes. I was appointed by the President.

[Mark Moss]

You're appointed? Yeah.

[Dan Berkovitz]

Yeah.

[Mark Moss]

Why do you think you were appointed by the President for this position?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, I spent many years in private practice representing financial technology firms and businesses that were really trying to build out new innovative products and services and fought the government tooth and nail to be able to get those to market. I spent a lot of time advising clients that were facing the onslaught of regulation by enforcement with the SEC and the CFTC over the years. And when the president won in 2024, had the opportunity to come into the administration, I was part of the transition team working to get the President's team up and Running and went over to the SEC and helped set up the crypto task force with Commissioner Hester Purse, who led the task force. I was the Chief Counsel and then also as a senior advisor to Chairman Atkins. And when the President called upon me to serve and appointed me to be the Chairman of the cftc, I was really humbled and honored to have the opportunity to now take my learnings from the SEC and from private practice over to the CFTC and continue to build on this momentous legacy for the President to make the United States crypto capital of the world. I also had the great opportunity while I was at the SEC to help out with the President's Working Group on Digital Asset Markets. And we put out a report that really lays out what I believe is the blueprint to make the United States the absolute leader in crypto. And we're continuing to work towards that every day.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah, now it makes sense. I just have to say it's very refreshing to sit down with you and hear you talk about protecting the rights of private property, protecting free markets. And it's refreshing in this, in this, in this market specifically. You know, we've just had Elizabeth Warren literally running on an anti crypto campaign. And I'm like, I don't remember growing up in America and having politicians run on making things illegal. Seems kind of weird, but so it's refreshing. And I can see why Trump would pick you. And you sort of started your career protecting those people's rights against the cftc. And so now you're sort of inside helping shape policy. So that's good. So you said that you were instrumental or you helped write the blueprint for the future of America with digital assets, I think is what you called it. What is that blueprint? Can you lay that out for us?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, there are a number of initiatives across the agencies. So this includes the sec, the cftc, treasury, as well as agencies like Department of Justice. And the aim here is to create an accommodating environment where digital finance can flourish here in the United States. And part of that is getting the various pieces of legislation in place. So we were able to get the Genius act signed into law last year, and now we're working to get clarity signed into law. And then there are a number of regulatory initiatives across the agencies. Certain products, for example, perpetual futures, are listed as something that the President wants to see here in the United States, or we also want to have protections for software developers. President has always believed strongly in the right to own your own crypto assets and be able to transact as many are aware, the President's family was a victim of the debanking of the prior administration. So we've got to make sure that that never happens again in the United States. And so we're working with the prudential regulators, the banking regulators, to make sure that the banks are not able to do that ever again.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, it is interesting. He, he was persecuted by the bank so he sort of has like first hand account of that that puts him in a good place. I'm not sure if you're able to say, but I'm just curious. You mentioned a couple times the prison. The President wants to see this. The President has his opinion. To me it would seem like, I mean he's got a million things going on, like how involved could he really get into this? But as you're saying, there's several things he wants to see. So I mean from all the accounts I hear he's really involved in everything and he's really smart and he's kind of paying attention to everything. So is he down into that level, into that detail?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, President Trump is the crypto president. I mean under Trump one we saw bitcoin futures which really was a landmark achievement of the Trump administration to get this new asset class in our derivatives markets. And it's really flourished for so many years. And now in this new administration one of the priorities of course was to develop crypto roadmap for the country. And I don't think the, no other administration's ever done that before. And the last administration did the exact opposite to your point with anti crypto armies. I think we now have the pro crypto army in the Trump administration and they're really fighting to make sure that our assets are our own assets. We're able to take them and use them how we please and not have the government seize our private property rights.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah, and it's interesting too, I mean even Scott Bessant over in the treasury is talking about crypto and bitcoin and digital assets and you would, you know, a lot of people have always thought that they were sort of anti each other, right? Bitcoin, crypto versus the dollar. But you can see that even at the treasury they're sort of like seeing that working together. So I like that approach.

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thoughts I can't stop scratching my downtown. Mm, yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud.

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[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, we've seen our financial markets and our payment systems evolve over many, many years. We were once, you know, trading in physical pits and limited by the real estate of the trading pits as to what products and things you could trade. Then we saw electronic markets really take off. We saw electronic payment systems where you're able to wire money across the world. And now we're seeing crypto. And crypto really is, I think, the next evolution of finance. And if we in the United States do not create a legal and regulatory regime that keeps it here, there's a real risk that we get behind. The President's actually said this very eloquently, that if we let China or some other country lead in crypto, that's America's loss and the innovators are just going to flood offshore. And so it's really important that we create an environment here in the US where people feel free to innovate. You know, Thomas Edison didn't go have to go to Washington and ask for permission for what he wanted to do or fear persecution for doing so. So we've got to create an environment where that's possible, where anything is achievable. And the President has always been a big supporter of crypto. And so we will continue to fight for the the crypto consumers here in the United States.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah. If the Wright brothers had to get permission and permits, they probably never would have built the airplane. Right. It's like it can be a little bit too, too aggressive at some point. You know, obviously, as a bitcoin guy and someone who invests in the bitcoin companies, I love what you're saying. You know, it's what we need. I'm encouraged by it. I believe that bitcoin scaled to a $2 trillion asset in spite of the government with a headwind. And so it's. It'll be amazing to see what it can do with the tailwind now. And, and like I said, I, I love. It's fresh for me to hear you talking about preserving private property and things like that in order to do this. I mean, it seems like you're very pro, The President's pro getting these things done. You are as well. You see this, like, urgency, this imperative to get it done. What are some of the biggest roadblocks that would prevent you from getting this done?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, time is always an issue. Right. We've got limited Runway to get things done. We're trying to move quickly because, you know, we've got to make sure that we keep pro crypto people in office able to continue to push for the legislation that we need in America. So time's always of the essence. We're moving quickly to get things done. We also have some roadblocks politically. Right. The anti crypto army is as much as it's defeated. They still fight us every day. So we've got to be focused. We've got to make sure that we keep the right folks in Washington who are able to execute on the mission.

[Mark Moss]

When you say time is the urgency of time really until the midterms, because you don't know what's going to happen after the midterms. Or is it like to the end of the term of the presidency, both of those things or.

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, certainly with the legislation, you know, it's really important that we try to get this done before the midterms because if things change, it may make it more difficult to get the legislation done. So we're certainly looking at what goes on in Washington or on the Hill. And then in terms of roadblocks from an agency standpoint, of course, we can always have to deal with litigation on the things that we put out. From a rulemaking perspective, we have certain authority that's very broad, but it can always be expanded. That's why the legislation is really helpful. So we're moving on all cylinders, trying to get things done.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah, I'm a big believer in building the world that you want, which is why I'm deploying money to help build the bitcoin ecosystem. And so, again, like, I want a positive regulatory environment for us to build these companies in. And so I love that, and I want to help that. So for people listening, I mean, if they hear this and they align with that message and they want to help bring this, what kind of actions could they do?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, I think engagement is really important. We've set up an innovation task force, so anyone who's building and Bitcoin or in other crypto technologies can come in and meet with us. And perhaps they have some barriers to entry. There are things that they think are unachievable due to this regulation or that, and they can work with our team to help change things in. In terms of policy or work to. To figure out a path. So that's always an option. We always welcome feedback and engagement in the form of comment letters. So as we're putting out new rules and regulations, there's what's called a comment period. So the public's actually able to submit letters and comments and opine on what we're doing, and maybe they offer an improvement that we weren't thinking of and so we can change the rule before we finalize it. Or maybe there's, you know, a lot of concern that what we're doing is not good for the. The industry, and so we might not do it. So that. That those are two real important ways to engage with us.

[Mark Moss]

So get involved. If you're creating projects that you feel might have some gray area, get involved and talk to you about that. Or if you're getting impairments somehow talk to you about that and sort of provide that feedback.

[Dan Berkovitz]

Absolutely.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah. And. Okay, well, that's some good advice. Anything else that we missed that you want to talk about while we're wrapping this up?

[Dan Berkovitz]

Well, all I can say is that we're really working hard for the American people at the CFTC to future proof bitcoin and crypto assets here in the United States to make sure that there's no more debanking and that the age of Gary Gensler's regulation by enforcement and prosecution and lawfare is over. So please continue to support us and engage with us and help us make the United States crypto capital of the world.

[Mark Moss]

Yeah. Awesome. All right, thank you.

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