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The Marketing Millennials
313 - The Evolution of Influencer Marketing with Ryan Roth, from Peter Thomas Roth
00:32:31
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- [00:02]
Daniel Murray
Welcome to the Marketing Millennials, the no BS Marketing podcast. I'm Daniel Murray and join me for unfiltered conversations with the brains behind marketing's coolest companies. The one request I tell our guests stories or it didn't happen. Get ready to turn the off.
- [00:28]
Welcome back to another episode of the Marketing Millennials podcast. Today I'm joined by Ryan Roth, the manager of influencer and brand partnerships at Peter Thomas Roth, the skincare brand behind some of the biggest viral beauty moments. We're diving into how to capitalize on viral moments, how to work with influencers the right way, why a great PR box can make or break your campaign, and and so much more on building a brand that gets people talking. If you want to learn more how top beauty brands create buzz and turn social media hype into real business impact, this episode's for you. So let's get into it. What is up? Brian, welcome to the podcast.
- [01:11]
Ryan Roth
Thank you for having me, Daniel. I'm excited to be here.
- [01:14]
Daniel Murray
I want you to go. Just a quick background what Peter Thomas Roth is so people understand what we're talking about and then we can jump into social media.
- [01:25]
Ryan Roth
So Peter Thomas Roth is my dad's name, but also a brand that he started a little over 30 years ago in clinical skin care. So his thought process behind it was the space was really missing really thoughtful ingredient for skin care. That's something that he really cared about at the time. It was very, you know, fluffy, super rich overnight magic cream, like, was every product in the market. And he was like, well, what, what's in this? What's this doing for me? How is it going to actually impact my skin? Because he had really, really bad skin. And so he's going to the dermatologist. And there wasn't quite a hybrid between dermatologist solution and luxury skincare. So he started a brand. All the ingredients are kind of front facing. It's about delivering the best innovation possible to the market. And he bought a couple years into it of research and development and manufacturing facility. So he makes and which is kind of rare for a business of our size or any business in the beauty business to make all of our own formulas, develop them ourselves, and then manufacture almost all of them. So that was really where we stood out because we were able to deliver formulas much faster to market than anywhere else. And we continue to strive in kind of pushing forward in the clinical skincare space and delivering like some of the best products we can with the most innovative ingredients. And then where I come in is a couple years ago I graduated college, I was always really passionate about this business and excited to make my footprint. So as a brand that existed before the word influencer did, there was no real full influencer program. So I worked with our EVP here and really built out a much more robust influencer program. And I work on that and whatever's going on that week here at the business.
- [03:31]
Daniel Murray
Before we go into more of the social, I want to go into your best influencer, which I saw as your grandma. She's the best influencer.
- [03:41]
Ryan Roth
Oh, yeah.
- [03:42]
Daniel Murray
So that's cool because you, you. I kind of found your videos because I saw your grandma and you just pop off. So it's cool to see that. And she uses all Peter Tom with Ross stuff too, which is cool.
- [03:55]
Ryan Roth
Of course. She literally swims in it. My grandma is an absolute legend and an icon. And she's actually. My dad's done campaigns with her, like mini campaigns on qvc, which is one of our retailers. And I was like, you know, I kind of want to do something. You know what, I'm going to rephrase that. It wasn't quite that thought out, but we were shopping. We were so bored during Black Friday, right before Thanksgiving, I guess the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, we're visiting her for, you know, the holiday where she lives in Miami. And my dad got like a $250 credit to socks in the mail. And he was like, we have nothing to do. We should just go get, you know, your grandma a gift. So we went and she was being so funny that I started filming it. And that night I was just sitting there like I put it together and then it blew up. It got like 10 million views. I woke her up and next day I was like, grandma, like you're famous. And she was like, I love it. Like, let's keep going. And she's always been like the most absurd human being of all time to. So I was like, this is great to capture. And then it's also what I wish was more thought out, but that was very serendipitous. But it just felt like a really good way to tell the brand story because this is a brand that existed before social media. And now people really just want to understand the backstory, the family, the this, the people behind the brand, more than you know, they want to trust that before they trust the brand itself. So it's been fun over the last few months getting to work with my 101 year old grandma on some, some fun things and some fun activations.
- [05:33]
Daniel Murray
So I want to go into how you think About Influencer at Peter Thomas Ross. I know the brand's been around a long time. I know you've had influencer type moments, the OG influencer type moments, like Dr. Oz, like putting you on the show and sing as one of his favorite products. But how are you thinking about the more modern approach to influencer marketing?
- [06:00]
Ryan Roth
Well, we were really propelled into the influencer marketing space in August of 2021 when this woman in the middle of Missouri posted a video named Trini and she was using the same product that Dr. Oz really liked. She put it on. I, at the time was visiting. My family were Hungarian, so it was in Hungary. So when I woke up, the video had like half a million views, which is, you know, three in the morning, 2:30 in the morning in on the East Coast. By the time my dad woke up, let's say at 8, every single retailer that carried this product was completely sold out. It was the most transformational video that really set the bar a little bit too high for influencer marketing for the expectation for me. Jokes aside. But yeah, nothing will really do that again because that product became. And it kind of trickled into. She made it viral. Then a bunch of other influencers just kept making it go viral. And it's now, for the fourth year in a row, the number one product in America that was like nearly on the discontinued list. So that really shifted our perspective on influencer marketing and really put all eyes on. Influencer is really the salespeople behind products now. It's not so much. It's not only the people in the stores the way it was before, where you, you know, go to your beauty adviser at Sephora and ask them for some advice. Of course, that's definitely still the case. But now people are scrolling on Tik Tok to see, you know, how their products work before they commit to them in store. So that was kind of the first big tent pole moment. And what I did, I kind of came on around then was like, all right, let's grab all of the. All of the more mature skin ladies that this product really works on and just keep seeding it to people, seeding it as wide as possible. And for us, having not had a really robust influencer budget at the time, seating is like the fastest, cheapest way to really get your voice heard in the. In the beauty space at least. So it's easy. Everyone has skin. There's no sizes, shade, ranges. It's so straightforward and easy to work with. So that's what I started doing. And then we've from there Built all sorts of campaigns, from micro influencer campaigns to big, huge celebrity campaigns. And I've been lucky enough to get to work on all of them. And I love it. But the takeaway is it's always the unexpected person that can really skyrocket the influencer space.
- [08:45]
Daniel Murray
And it is a pretty crazy video. I watched the video and it actually works really well, that eye product. So it actually is not one of those trick influencer videos where they sell it. Actually, she woke up, she looked like she had really big bags, and then they went away in five minutes, which is kind of crazy to see.
- [09:05]
Ryan Roth
It's cra. And it was at that time when you couldn't fast forward on TikTok. So I feel like we used to get so baited. Now you can just like press down and hold it and it goes at 2x speed or you can just like toggle through the bottom. So everyone was just so, like, glued to the screen for the full. I think it's like three and a half minutes about the video, and they're just absolutely glued to it so that I think the timing just worked. And TikTok, the people at TikTok had reached out and the term TikTok made me buy it, like, was not a thing. And this was kind of in the. In the first couple of products that they were like, okay, let's coin a term called TikTok made me buy it. And the Peter Thomas Roth eye cream is definitely one of them. So that was really cool.
- [09:52]
Daniel Murray
Yeah. I mean, one thing I also want to go into is. I know that happened, but when did you decide to also make it on TikTok shop the products?
- [10:04]
Ryan Roth
That was a. An initiative that I had kicked off and that was really healthy for this product because it wasn't working on, like, the traditional influencer, traditional beauty influencer. It's really a specific concern that it was addressing and it was helping us find those people a lot better to. To share that message. But I started seeing a few brands when Tick Tock Shop was really in beta, just like blowing up on, like. And it was so weird and so random. And there'd be like, like a video of a bald guy, like, just like shaking a product. And it had like 5 million views and was like, just generating so many sales of like a body bomb or something. So random. And I'm like, what is this? I don't. I don't know what this is yet, but we need to get behind it. We need to get involved. So it took at the time, seven months to code the Integration every single day came into work. I was like, where, where are we at? Where are we at? It took forever because the platform was just, it was growing way faster than it could afford to. And we in record timing they told us, did the fastest integration in seven months with the systems that we have, which is crazy to me. And then by day, I think it was day like 8 or 9, I can't remember, we did like a hundred thousand dollars in one day. And I was like, whoa. Like we just kicked this off. Like this was like not in any budget. This was just like kind of my passion project. I was like, let's see where this goes. And it, it really took off. Like it took off so quickly and it's, it's now a full part of our business and it's a great way to not only sell product, but build awareness for a brand and incentivize and get to work with so many more people who are on a commission based.
- [11:57]
Daniel Murray
So I want to go into how you think about social media because obviously you have Omni channels, you, you're in Sephora, you're in Ulta, but you also on TikTok shop, you have e commerce website. So how do you think about approaching social media daily?
- [12:15]
Ryan Roth
It's gotten so big at this point that there's just like so many facets of it. To answer that question, I think social media is really where you can get your message across and you, you have to develop assets that are really good and really educational for, for your own social so that when people come there they can be informed on the product. But the fastest way to really get like, for things a spark to catch fire is through influencers and it's through affiliates and it's through however you're getting that message across to like hundreds of people with hundreds of thousands of followers. Like it's the fastest way to just really, really grow. So to me, social media itself, it's kind of like an education portal. Of course there's people that are following along, but it's, it's really a discovery tool. And then your influencers are like, what, what can really propel you and what can help you see a product just completely blow up? So I think that's kind of better bottom of the funnel marketing than anything else.
- [13:27]
Daniel Murray
How do you think about the influencers that you're seeding? So when you decided to do this influencer program, what was the thought process about what type of influencer I need to reach out to? What was that target influencer look like? And then how has it evolved into, like, what it is today?
- [13:45]
Ryan Roth
Yeah, I'm a little bit of a packaging snob. So I was like, I love a good PR moment, and I think there's nothing cooler than a thoughtful, creative PR mailer. So this was January 22 or 23. I can't even remember at this point a couple years ago, January, remember, I was like, let's kick off, like, a really different, interesting pr. Like, not just a regular box with a postcard. Like, let's do something a little bit bigger. And it was. It was actually for this product right behind me. And, like, you open the top and, like, the sides of this box, like, fell down, and the product was sitting in a pedestal with, like, a mirror on the base, and it was super cool and different. And I was like, this is the direction I want to go. And now influencer boxes are full. Part of our marketing 360 campaigns is building out really cool and interesting boxes, and they've gotten a lot better. But I remember, I think that box went out to, like, 250 people. And I was working on that list on my own, and it was genuinely just people that either I knew I was friends with. I was and still am friends with a lot of influencers. So. And then people that I noticed, like, the brand, and it was a great introduction to the brand because I feel like it feels so special when instead of just getting a product in a box, like, getting a product in a box that tells a story that's interesting, that's fun. And we've. We've done so many cooler, more fun boxes since the inception of that program. So there's no real. There's no real method to the madness with who we pick. Now there's a full team. I work with an amazing team that helps, like, you know, find the coolest, most interesting people that are coming up in social media. And our program is like 10x since, you know, the 200 box is a. A launch that I was sending out, but it's. There's no real method to the. The process. It's just really finding interesting people. We can't. I'd love to work with everyone, but we can't work with everyone and have to be thoughtful with the paid programming budgets that I do have. So it's a fun way to touch people and that can come to events that we can't work with that are just fun and interesting and want to learn more about the brand.
- [16:11]
Daniel Murray
Yeah. I'm also interested how you said that the eye cream was about to be discontinued and I know your Peter Thomas Roth has had different types of viral moments. I remember when me and my wife went on our honeymoon, she was wearing Peter Thomas Roth like, eye patches on the plane. And that had its moment in time. And now the eye cream is having its moment in time. And you've had moments in time for. Since like, the inception. So how are you staying, like, evolving over time? Because it's. You've been around for a long time, but keep going viral, Keep having viral moments, keep having cool products that. That on the docket.
- [16:56]
Ryan Roth
I mean, it says a lot about our equity in the, in the brand name and in the category. But what I think is Lucky and not to. To name what. There's been a bunch of huge viral moments, like dating as far back as Bill Clinton using the sunscreen. And it was like, all over People magazine while he was president, which was a very long time ago. So that was really kind of like the first viral moment before we really knew that word. But I think what's nice about the eye cream is that it's like a franchise. There's a primer, there's a face tightener, there's a lip product, there's a. A blush and bronze stick. So that there was a little bit of an existing franchise in the Firmex family, which is what that product is. And then it kind of grew out and we expanded it when it went viral. And that's helped kind of instead of just having one viral product where, like, one comes up, one comes a little bit lower, the other one comes back. And it's been a really nice kind of flow of things over the last couple years that this franchise has been blowing up.
- [18:06]
Daniel Murray
I, I want to go into, like, obviously the beauty industry is one of the, One of the most competitive and it's actually one of the best to be in because, like, shipping costs are not as high as, like, if you're shipping a soda brand or something like that. So, like, the.
- [18:23]
Ryan Roth
I don't even. Our shipping costs are crazy. And I don't know how brands like Poppy are sending so much. Like, how can you afford to send those 10 pounds of soda around so quickly?
- [18:35]
Daniel Murray
But yeah, it's crazy how they do it. But I wanted to know, like, what are some things that you're thinking about to stand out on social that are different than what these. Because obviously there's ton. Tons of brands that you're competing against.
- [18:49]
Ryan Roth
Yeah, totally. I think where we got lucky from the start two is we have a really prolific franchise of eye patches. We have right behind me Six different under eye patches. I think there's actually seven. It's just not here. And skincare was not visual. Like there was a point in influencer marketing where, you know, people, no, there was no videos. People would just post still images on Instagram and there was no carousels. They just hold up a skincare product and that just to me isn't going to sell a product. And no one really knows what moisturizer you're wearing or what serum you're wearing unless you talk about it, which is the best part about TikTok. But from the inception of it, the eye patches are visual and they were fun and people kind of liked posting about it. So that was really great luck from the, from the get go in that category of just like being a visual product and being social friendly. So that was a fun way to kind of dip our toe in and stand out. But we really, a lot of our products deliver results. I mean they all deliver results, but some of them even in a matter of minutes, in a matter of a few weeks. And that's what I think really stands out about our brand and what sells a product. It's, it's not just, it's not just like a, a nice experience to put the cream on. It's going to deliver results. And that's, I think, the, the key to success here. So people really trust Peter Thomas Roth and have continued to trust Peter Thomas Roth to deliver that. But there's also a really nice generational piece that this brand has that I'm really fortunate to get to work here with. I mean, I get to work really closely with my dad, which is great. But it's, it's really the brand that, you know, people saw their moms using and they, their moms trusted it when there weren't as many competitive brands out there. So they know to jump in and know that they can trust it to themselves.
- [20:54]
Daniel Murray
Yeah, and I, I mean I saw you did podcast type videos with your dad and one of the things he said is like, he's a ultimate perfectionist and that's why he built the, the, his own factories and stuff like that, because he wanted to perfect the product. And I think that's also what stands out out of other beauty care brands because they're not spending that much time to make sure the product works in every single environment, every single skin, every single type of whatever the result thing is, you said at the beginning is really what he cares about.
- [21:37]
Ryan Roth
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's amazing that he's such a perfectionist it's, it's annoying in my personal life because he really is a perfectionist. Whether it's what furniture he's going to pick out, he'll return like five things, you know, 10 times. But he really is a perfectionist when it comes to these products. And we're privately owned and vertically integrated so it gives us so much opportunity that if there's an ingredient that's just a little bit more expensive but works a little bit better, we can really um, we have a lot more wiggle room to be able to incorporate that. Whereas if there's a big conglomerate they're like shaving pennies and you know, dimes off of every formula they possibly can. And we don't have to do that because we're privately owned. So it's really, it gives us a lot of a leg up.
- [22:28]
Daniel Murray
Could you tell me how you. So you get to see a lot of social insights from social media of what people are doing, what trends are happening. How do you work with the same product team or the rest of the marketing team or your dad to take those insights and tell them what's happening in, in that world?
- [22:49]
Ryan Roth
Yeah, I mean we definitely, we have group chats, different variations of group chats going off all, at all hours of the day. But there is a full team that's dedicated to just researching the products that are launching as well as the social trends and they're making reports regularly. What's coming out, what's launching at Sephora, what we're see leave Sephora and how trends are shifting. But like I said, visual results are always, always do super well. So we've always been really excited to dedicate our innovation to that and can't really speak to it but the products that are coming out in May one and June one are really, really exciting, really social driven products. So I'm very excited to got to do that, got to deliver that.
- [23:44]
Daniel Murray
So I mean the Get Ready with Me's have always been like a staple in the TikTok world. Where do you think that is going? Because in Covid you can follow one person and you have this in depth relationship with that person you're following but now it's gone into more like making sure every video is pops off because you, you there's such a shorter attention span with YouTube shorts and Instagram reels and all these platforms. So how do you think about the evolution of influencer in, in the beauty space?
- [24:23]
Ryan Roth
I mean number one, Get Ready with Me is were the best thing to ever happen to the beauty industry. Because influencing was for fashion and then because influencing was about pictures. And then this whole trend of like, watch every single step of the 15 different products that I use on my face while I tell you about my day popped off. And that was just so huge for beauty. So I don't think it's going anywhere. Not for that reason, but I don't think it's going anywhere because there is just such a, an urge to feel really connected to an influencer. And the more authentic you come across, the better you do. And so that's why like this whole Alex Earl, like get ready with me trend too is that's her opportunity to just like, it feels like you're on FaceTime with her and you're like under, she's gorgeous. So you see what she's doing to shape her face and her routine. So I don't think it's going anywhere. However, it's not as I noticed, it's not as prolific as it was before. But I think that if I could predict the trends and know it was coming forward, I, I genuinely wish I could.
- [25:37]
Daniel Murray
Yeah, I mean you, you do it in your own videos too, which you naturally integrate Peter Thomas Roth, even though like it doesn't seem like you're selling it. You just say, I went out parting one night and I, I need this eye cream or I need this moisturizer or I need this because or I'm going out, I need to do a quick tune up. So I think the way you do it is pretty natural too. Like if people wanted to follow the a good way to do it, it's pretty natural way to do product placement.
- [26:14]
Ryan Roth
Yeah, that's what I'm never, I mean if something's brand new and coming out, I'll like, I definitely excited to make a video and like talk about it in a super salesy lens. But it doesn't always work. Like people just kind of want to see it like woven into a routine. That's why I dabble with this too. With some influencer campaigns. I'm like, yeah, I need a dedicated video. However, I also would really like to see in another integrated video just like incorporating, just using the product. Because we've discussed, I know you like it, I know you made a video, but I want to like have a little bit of a through line and a360 campaign here that makes it really authentic because authenticity is what sells what.
- [27:00]
Daniel Murray
What'S more successful for you all. I know you've done big celebrity campaigns, but you also done like, I mean if you look at Your feed, it's all normal people. Micro influencer and yeah, and your grandma doing stuff. What has been performing more? Is it the micro influence space or the big celebrity endorsements?
- [27:21]
Ryan Roth
I mean it really depends how you measure it. I love working on big celebrity campaigns. I think it's so fun. It's like, it's stressful, it's exciting, it's, it's different and you just get like such a fun ripple through press through because you know, traditional press isn't totally dead at all. And it's just like it feels a little bit more permanent in some ways than smaller micro influencer, mid tier influencer, traditional campaigns. But both are effective in different ways. And I, I think the reality of the reason they build campaigns with so many different people is because it's a gamble. Like you know that some, someone's going to sell a lot better than someone else. But you, you don't know that before you start. So that's why you kind of have to diversify with a big group of people that you're going to be working with. And a celebrity campaign is just always a more stressful, bigger bet because it's one person and you're relying on your gut to tell you how commercial that campaign is going to be and how it's going to ripple. And we've been lucky and thoughtful with the last few celebrity campaigns that we've done that they've been really successful. But it, it does really tie into someone's brain when you work on something like that. Like there is, we worked with Lindsay Lohan and it, you know, two years ago now almost. And I still get, oh yeah, oh, I remember that you did that thing with Lindsay Lohan. I'm like, it really just connects in someone's brain. Whereas maybe there's a micro influencer that we worked with two years ago and no, you know, which was much more successful and in a lower funnel capacity. But it doesn't quite resonate the same way that does two years later when you work with a bigger celebrity.
- [29:08]
Daniel Murray
Yeah, that makes sense. I mean one's mainstream reach embedded into culture. One is more get your name in these small micro communities they might not remember except maybe the Trini moment where it went ultra, ultra viral. But you won't remember those other ones. That makes total sense. I want to ask you a couple rapid fire questions and whatever first thing comes into mind. Um, you could say, but what is the most underrated social media platform for beauty brands?
- [29:48]
Ryan Roth
I think it's going to be YouTube.
- [29:52]
Daniel Murray
If you could only keep one TikTok or Instagram? TikTok, a beauty brand besides Peter Thomas Roth that's killing it on social.
- [30:03]
Ryan Roth
That's a loaded question. I think that I've been loving. I don't know if it how social facing it is because it's really 360, but I've been loving the Kelly Rutherford Codaly campaign that's running right now. Oh, and sorry, Patrick, TA is doing a really good job on social.
- [30:21]
Daniel Murray
What is one influencer you would love to work with?
- [30:25]
Ryan Roth
I. I'd love to work with Miley Cyrus.
- [30:29]
Daniel Murray
Well, that's a good one. What's a social media trend that needs.
- [30:34]
Ryan Roth
To die like these dances?
- [30:39]
Daniel Murray
What is your favorite Peter Thomas Roth product?
- [30:43]
Ryan Roth
The water trench cream.
- [30:45]
Daniel Murray
And lastly, I like to ask everybody in the podcast this, but what's a marketing hill you would die on?
- [30:52]
Ryan Roth
I mean, definitely authenticity sells no matter what. And I feel like a lot of people disagree with me, but I think no publicity is bad publicity. It's a little hard when you're in the beauty industry and you know, someone doesn't like a product. But I still think that no publicity is bad publicity.
- [31:11]
Daniel Murray
No, I think that. I think that's a good one.
- [31:13]
Ryan Roth
Very Kim Kardashian core. Oh, sorry, that's the influencer I'd really want to work with Kim Kardashian, but she has got a skincare line of her own, so maybe in a future life.
- [31:25]
Daniel Murray
Yeah. And then where could people find what you're doing and all that good stuff?
- [31:33]
Ryan Roth
I can be found on very recently reels and Instagram, Ryan Thomasroth and the same handle on TikTok. And then you'll see more of what the brand's doing both on Instagram and TikTok. Peter Thomas Roth Official.
- [31:47]
Daniel Murray
Well, thank you so much for joining and thanks for the conversation. I really appreciate it.
- [31:52]
Ryan Roth
Thanks for a great combo. Daniel.
- [31:56]
Daniel Murray
Thanks so much for listening. Keep tuning in to hear more great insights from the coolest marketers from around the world. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe and follow the Marketing Millennials podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. And if you like what you hear, I would greatly appreciate you giving us a five star rating. It helps bring more marketers into our community.
- [32:22]
Ryan Roth
SA.