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The Marketing Millennials
321 - How to Think Long Term in Marketing with Andrew LeRay, Director of Brand Marketing at National Women’s Soccer League
00:35:23
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- [00:02]
Daniel Murray
Welcome to the Marketing Millennials, the no BS Marketing podcast. I'm Daniel Murray and join me for unfiltered conversations with the brains behind marketing's coolest companies. The one request I tell our guests stories or it didn't happen. Get ready to turn the top. Today's guest is building one of the most exciting brands in sport right now. We've got Andrew Larray, director of brand marketing at the National Women's Soc League. And this conversation is straight fire if you care about building brands that move people. We got into what goes into building a long term brand while still driving short term momentum. Why the right personalities matter when shaping your brand. The behind the scenes of their game changing partnership with Alex Cooper of Call Her Daddy and her new drink Unwell. And what it really takes to make your brand relevant beyond your core audience. The National Woman's Soccer League isn't just growing. It's making bold moves and tackling a new generation. So I'm excited to get into this episode of the Market Millennials. Let's go. What is up? Andrew, welcome to the podcast today.
- [01:30]
Andrew Larray
Thanks for having me. My pleasure.
- [01:32]
Daniel Murray
The National Women's Soccer League is going through some crazy things and you're running the brand. You just did a huge partnership with Unwell. I want to start first. What does brand actually mean to you before we go into like what you're doing with brand, how you're getting the brand out there?
- [01:49]
Andrew Larray
Yeah, to me it's how. How we want to be perceived by others. I mean, I think we have a vision of what we want the league to become, but it's not enough to just tell people to think one way or another about the league. So showing who we are through our messaging and how we're showing up the type of partners that we have, showing the incredible athletes that we have in this league all kind of ladders into the message that we want to be sending and that in turn then defines our brand. So it's really trying to develop a perception of the league.
- [02:22]
Daniel Murray
Yeah. And what is the difference of like trying to do it for a league because this is a movement than an actual product. But I know the league is a product, but you're trying to create a new fan base, trying to get people knowing the league exists. So what, how do you go out and do it for something like a huge league like the National Women's Soccer League?
- [02:42]
Andrew Larray
Yeah. The business is so diversified and there are so many different aspects to the product. Right. I think it's different from a consumer product industry. So to Speak, where you create something and then you have to get people to buy it. And it's pretty clear that you're driven by the number of sales and how often is this product showing up in the shelves and how quickly is it flying off shelves, whereas ours is far more intangible. So our product is soccer, and it is the game itself. And, you know, customers or fans can be those who buy tickets, can be those who buy jerseys, can be those who watch games on tv, folks who follow us on social media. So there's so many different parts of the business, but brand encompasses all of it. So it's, it's how, how people are learning about us, how many people are learning about us, and what are they learning about us? Right. I think we're still sort of in this position where we've experienced this tremendous growth over the past few years, and we're on a trajectory that is really exciting and I think accelerating faster than many other sports leagues, and women's sport in general is sort of experiencing this right now, but still have a wide delta in terms of the number of people who very easily can recognize the acronym NWSL and know what it means. And those who are still raising an eyebrow and saying, well, what is nwsl? And I mean, our goal in mind, specifically as director of brand marketing here, is to close that gap and to ensure that the most people possible, when they hear the letters nwsl, they immediately know what that means, what that represents, who our players are, and why this league is worth their time, worth their energy, worth their money, worth their effort. And it's a difficult. It's a difficult self, not just for this league, but for anybody these days. There's never been more things to do. There's never been more touch points for people to spend their time. There's a tremendous amount of content out there. There's so many different sports leagues, and it's all at our fingertips. So breaking through that noise and creating a value proposition that's unique for our current fans, but also for new fans is incredibly important. And it's what drives my role every single day.
- [04:52]
Daniel Murray
Can we go a little bit into how you think about the playbook of doing it? So when you, you started in this role, like, how did you think about, like, I want this brand to get out there. What is, like, the first couple of things you started with, to start thinking about the brand as a whole?
- [05:09]
Andrew Larray
Yeah. So when I joined, I joined just over two years ago, so I'm in my third season here now at nwsl and it's changed so much in that short amount of time. And when I joined, most of my career has been, all of my career has been in sports. I was at Major League Baseball for just under 10 years and then I was at a smaller NFT startup, Candy Digital, which is sort of branched between tech and sports in many ways because they had a lot of sports partnerships, but it was always in sports. And so I had known of the nwsl, I, I knew what it was. I had heard the noise that was starting to develop around increase in attendance and in viewership. Familiar with many of the star players through the US Women's national team and other international national teams. But I didn't really know what the cross section of the most avid fan was. And it took me a while to learn who that fan was and what drives them and why they're interested in this league. And the way that the league has positioned itself in the past was smart and worthwhile and developed avid fans. But we quickly learned that it was a little bit more difficult for us to get that more casual fan, that more curious fan. We didn't have a lot of inroads into welcoming them into our marketing funnel. Right? So then I, as the first brand director here at nwsl, I mean I live at the top of that funnel. Everything that I'm doing needs to be for awareness. It needs to get our name out there and it needs to ensure that the most people possible are welcomed into this league. A lot of the previous marketing before I joined was a little more deeper into the funnel. It was more loyalty, it was more retention with that avid fan base. So we have a rock solid, steady avid fan base now and we're always going to serve them. But now it's just creating messaging and ensuring that through our creative, through how we show up on tv, through how we show up on social media, all of our owned and operated touchpoints, all of our partnerships, ensuring that we are broadening that type of funnel and welcoming more and more people in and one.
- [07:06]
Daniel Murray
Of the, I mean for sports in general, because I played college football and an audience that you need to tackle when you're growing a fan base is like the younger generation, like the up and coming because the younger sports fans, because they're going to be with the league longer than most people and you can get the parents, but you want to get the, the Gen Z's and now the Gen Alphas to, to be a part of that experience. So how you, you, you going after those younger groups? How are you thinking about going up to those fan Bases.
- [07:39]
Andrew Larray
Yeah, that's, that's one that's probably the most fun part of my job is that it, it, it demands that I stay young. I'm very much a millennial, very, very solidly within that many millennial generation. But I'm kind of forced to keep up with trends, and I like that, and I'm excited by that. What are people consuming? How are they spending their time? What are they watching on TV, on YouTube, on TikTok? What. What is, you know, what is the zeitgeist of the day? And then how can we play into that? Not necessarily in a way that comes off inauthentic, but proving that our game is a game that's growing. And if it's a game that's growing, that means that we need to be welcoming in that group. And soccer is played by more youths in this country than any other sport. So we sort of have an inroad to begin with that doesn't always mean participation at a young age, doesn't always mean that they're going to become a fan as they get older, but it does mean that we at least have a touch point early on with many young people, and we should find a way to start to convert them into longer fans. So it's definitely something that we're aware of and focused on, and that is a big fan base waiting to be tapped into. So ensuring that we are creating and building our product for growth for the future. We always have an eye on the future. Right. I mean, we're focused on the people who are our fans now, but also know that coming up behind them is a large, active, vocal group ready and willing to engage with us. And so we need to be prepared for that. Of course, there are some trends out there that show that Gen Z isn't necessarily as into sports as some of the other generations might be. But that doesn't deter us in any way. It actually just presents itself as more of an opportunity, I think. And so it's a challenge every day, but one that, that drives us for sure.
- [09:29]
Daniel Murray
And I mean, women's soccer in general, I mean, in the United States has probably one of the, like, they're more actually well known than men's soccer because in the National League, because they have been winning for so many years. So how do you, like, capitalize on that momentum? Because women, that, that, that national team is, has been crushing for the last, I don't know, 30, 40 years, long time.
- [09:56]
Andrew Larray
Yeah, they're dominant. Yeah, it's a great relationship that we have with US Soccer But I think what's really cool because of the structure of soccer internationally is that those players play in our league throughout the year. The U.S. women's National Team competes at certain windows, FIFA windows, throughout the year, whenever there's international tournaments or international friendly dates. But when that national team is not playing together, those players still play professionally and they play in our league. And I believe in the last, most recent FIFA window, which just, just closed a few days ago, we sent the NWSL sent 101 players to different national teams to play in those friendlies. So many of them obviously do go to the US Women's national team. But whoever does play for, whether it be Canada or Zambia or Ireland or Wales, like, we have players all over the country who represent all over the world, excuse me, who represent their countries internationally. So it literally does mean in every sense when we say we have the best players in the world, it. It is empirically true. And that's what's super exciting. And so whether it's the US Women's national team or another international national, sorry, international club or team, it. Those players play in our league. And so it's a great way to leverage star power. And it's something that we're very focused on and energized by because there is a new crop, a new generation of player now that we've sort of had the retirements of the likes of Alex Morgan and Megan Rapinoe, Kelly O'Hara, Ali Krieger. They're no longer in this league. There's another crop right now coming up that is immensely talented. And so there's a pipeline for sure here in the United States, but certainly in other countries as well, which lend itself to this opportunity that we have, which is. It's incredibly important for us to take advantage of. And it's something that we focus on each and every day.
- [11:47]
Daniel Murray
Speaking about star power and the league, you recently got a new league sponsor with Alex Cooper and Unwell, her new drink. How did that come about? Why was that like a perfect partnership for you all? I mean, I honestly heard of the National Women's Soccer League. Like, I knew it was going, but I didn't know the acronym till I saw the. The Unwell podcast. I knew there was a national women's soccer league, but I didn't know it was called nwsl. So how did that come about? And yeah, talk a little bit about that partnership that happened.
- [12:26]
Andrew Larray
Yeah, well, you're a great case study. It's where it's working, right? I mean, I think in everything that we want to do with our partners, whether that's a corporate sponsorship or whether with a, with a, with a musical artist that we want to collaborate with or a third party media company that we feel like gives us good reach. We are looking for partners that reflect our values one, but also bring with them the ability for us, going back to our conversation from before, to widen that funnel and bring more audiences and bring new audiences into. Into the fold. And you're a perfect example of that, right? Like, if you find us through the partnership that we have with Unwell or because Trinity Rodman was a guest on an episode of Call Her Daddy, that's. That's exactly what we're going for, right? Like that. That opens up roads for us and opens up a possibility to attract new people who don't necessarily know who we are. But at least it sparks a bit of curiosity in them, right? So now they're thinking, okay, well, Trinity was great on that episode and she sounds like a really cool person and a great soccer player. And I want to check it out. That's what we want. That's exactly what we're going for. And the Unwell Hydration partnership and many of the other partnerships that we've forged do just that. They connect us with a new audience that we feel like gives us an ability to grow and scale quickly. But also those partners reflect values that we have and we find important. And so it works on so many different levels. And the Unwell Hydration partnership is certainly one of those that checks those boxes.
- [13:55]
Daniel Murray
And we're also. I mean, you talked a little bit that you had to stay younger, but we also. In a unique era for sports because of social media, where now, like, personalities are driven in sports and leagues. You see this with like, F1. You see this with like, all these, like, personalities driven. And so how is, how is that becoming a way to like, grow the brand with driving those personalities?
- [14:23]
Andrew Larray
It's of paramount importance in, in many ways, our players are our brand. We're intrinsically linked. How players put themselves out there reflects upon the league. Generally speaking, new fans will follow or become attached to players first then a club and then a league, but the players are always first. And again, as somebody who spent almost 10 years at MLB, this is not necessarily a problem, but a challenge that they faced as well. And they've done a great job of breaking down those barriers and creating deep relationships with players and ensuring that those personalities are out there. And so people get attached to those players, and then once they get attached to those players, now they're in the fold and then they just become curious and maybe, you know, again, they'll buy. They'll buy a kit of Trinity Rodman because they heard her on call her daddy, right? And that, that is great. Now. Now they're in the fold now they're part of our community. And if they then tune in to watch a Washington spirit game, great. That's another layer of engagement, but it has to start somewhere. But the players being out there and being able to show their personality is incredibly important. So us giving them those opportunities, forging relationships. This league has done a tremendous job to develop deeper relationships with players over the past few years. It's something that was certainly attractive when I joined, was being able to take these players and make them stars if they're willing to be that. Right. It's not necessarily authentic or fair to take a player who doesn't want to do that and, and put them out there. But there's players who have interests. Finding those interests, finding ways for us to give them opportunities to share those interests and speak passionately about something that drives them, only benefits us in the long run. So working more closely with players, with the player association is definitely something that we've done more this year and plan on doing in the future. Because again, building those brands builds ours in tandem.
- [16:18]
Daniel Murray
Could you go a little bit deeper into. Because I know every brand out there should have personalities, but what type of tools do you supply with the players to help them? What are those tools the tool could look like?
- [16:33]
Andrew Larray
Some of the best ways are the most simple ways, which is just simply providing them with content that they don't otherwise have. So many of these players are active on social media, but for them, finding content, whether that's a photo of their arrival fit. So many of these players arrive at the stadium for their match and they're dressed to the nines and they're showing off and that content is being collected all the time, but they don't necessarily have it in their pockets. We have a program which we call our Live Content Coordinators, our LCC program. So we have somebody in market, at least one person in every NWSL market for every match. And they're there collecting content, photos, videos, phone content through our partnership with Google Pixel. So there's a tremendous amount of content that we own, operate and control. And so some of the, again, some of the best ways to get done what you're, what you're asking is the simplest. So we take that content and then we will distribute it to players. So at the end of a game. A player will then have a choice of what to post. They'll have photo, they'll have some short video. And it's stuff that nobody else has because it's not out there in the ether. It's owned by the league and simply providing players with that content. They can choose to post it or not, but if they do, again, it's unique content and it's high quality stuff. We're not just hiring anybody, we're hiring people, young people who have tremendous talent and want to break into sports. There's no shortage of those kinds of people out there. So it's a really cool opportunity for them. But again, it gives us a leg up because it allows us to provide something to players that they wouldn't otherwise have. And if players see us giving them opportunities and being proactive about building their brands again, that just starts to build a relationship which will prove fruitless years in the future.
- [18:18]
Daniel Murray
I'm also glad you're seeing this because I was going to mention the MLB has such good brand recognition in general, but if you would ask me to name five MLB players that walked in a room, I would probably not be able to do that. But if you did that with basketball now it's getting to a stage where you're like, oh, now I know at least like 15 MLB players. So I could see that, the rise on that. And I like that you guys are channeling the, the players in the National Women's Soccer League. I think that's a really cool way. And I also think that I want to go a little bit deeper on how you think about, because you're right, like sports has a unique opportunity to produce a lot of high quality clips content because a lot of cool things happen. These, these women are superhuman because I mean, they're the best of the best in the world doing some crazy things on the field. So how do you partner with the content team to get those great clips out there and choose what clips to go out and when and stuff like that?
- [19:26]
Andrew Larray
Yeah, our, our social media team is, is incredibly good at what they do. I'm shocked day by day at the sheer volume of content that we're pushing off of. Our, our social media team is super small but incredibly strong. Small but mighty is what we like to say. And so we do get a ton of content ingested because through our LCC program, which is not unique to us, this is a program that I know exists at other leagues too. The NFL does something similar, MLB does something similar. But it's so worthwhile that we invested in it early on. So to have this roster of people at every single match collecting this content. And again, we have an ability to even send them to non match events. If a team is holding an international friendly or going on some sort of community visit, then we can collect content from that as well. And just creating this library of content is so valuable. The old refrain of content is king is so true, but it also applies to leagues and it applies to clubs. And so if we have that content and we're able to then give that back to players, players will generally have big followings than us. Our league is a bit of an outlier in that regard. But we still do have some players who have millions of followers on Instagram. And again, coming from mlb. There's. There aren't many MLB players that have that, but our, our players do. And so it's more valuable to us if we have a photo of Dana Castellanos who plays for Portland Thorn. She has over a million Instagram followers. She should post that photo. Right. Like we, we will still reap the benefits of it because it's out there and reaching more people. She just has a bigger follower than us. But it doesn't. We're not precious about who posts this content or who generates the first post. It's very much a rising tide situation. And so utilizing the reach of those players, but also giving them something to put out there and post so they don't have to think so much about it. It just makes sense for everybody involved.
- [21:26]
Daniel Murray
Another question I have for you is the MLB had a very good brand recognition. So how did you. What is the biggest difference of working with league that is on the rise with brand recognition than a league that kind of has been around for 100 plus years?
- [21:43]
Andrew Larray
Yes, over 150 years.
- [21:45]
Daniel Murray
Yeah.
- [21:45]
Andrew Larray
Yeah. Ultimately I spent. So I spent just under 10 years there and I had a great time and, and I loved my time at mlb and I was just interested in doing something different. But I can say now, having spent a little over two years here, it, it's a, a tremendous difference. And I am very energized by the challenge that I face every day at NWSL for that very reason. Right. I mean, MLB people generally know been around for over 150 years. It's a legacy company with a tremendous, incredible history that's intertwined with American history in so many different ways. And our league, NWSL, we're in our 13th season, but for all intents and purposes, this league has sort of had to reinvent itself a few different times. And we're really like three years old in this current iteration of nwsl. So we're kind of starting from scratch. And that I think is so exciting and so energizing. And I love that challenge. I love being able to adopt this identity which we, we've sort of given to ourselves as a challenger brand. Somebody or a group of people who want to make noise, need to make noise and break through. And we're willing to take risks to do that. We're willing to, to put ourselves out there in ways that other leagues who have been around for so many years simply aren't. But they also don't necessarily have to. But we do, we do because we don't have the fan bases that they have yet. We don't have the history that they have yet. But we're building towards that. So again, with an eye to the future and keeping those Gen Z and Gen Alpha in mind, it gives us a bit of latitude that I think a lot of other leagues don't necessarily have or don't feel comfortable leaning into.
- [23:22]
Daniel Murray
Yeah, that's like the, the beauty of being a, a challenger brand or a challenger league is you're allowed to take these risks that other leagues don't necessarily think about or aren't going to do. But like you said, small, mighty social team, but growing a huge social following, partnering with like one of the biggest, I would say one of the big, the probably the biggest podcaster in the world. Like these are small, big things that are happening that are going to keep stacking. And also people forget that brand takes years and you're thinking like 10, 15, 30 years down the line. You're not only, you're not only thinking like tomorrow, today. So how, how is that different? Because a lot of like people who go into a company, their mindset is just shrunk like because you, you, you, you're going to make a brand impact fast. But with a league, you're thinking, how could I be a legacy league? How could this league last or 100, 200, 300 years?
- [24:24]
Andrew Larray
Yeah, we even have that dynamic internally because we simply have to it's way the business is constructed. Like I, I have a bit of a longer view, a horizon that's a bit further away, a wider horizon than some others in, in the organization do simply because it's just a function of how the business works. I mean we definitely still do need to generate revenue. We definitely still do need people to tune in. We do need people to be a little bit further into the funnel and we need to do Some retention and loyalty type work. I get to live at a bit of a higher altitude and look a bit further out. But that doesn't mean that everybody is. Yes, we're building for the future. We are on this tremendous trajectory. We are doing as much as we can to ensure continued growth. But again, even internally, there are some people who need to see one day, one week, one month in advance. And so when I come in, there are some projects or things that I have to work on that are a bit more time sensitive. I'm trying to give you an example of that. When we play our championship match, which is in late November this year, November 22, the horizon's quite clear and there's a clear finish line of November 22nd. And by then we're going to need to hit X number of viewers for that match on CBS and we're going to need to sell Y number of tickets. So it's very goal oriented and there's very, it's very clear what we're driving towards. But in those in between periods when we're not necessarily working on a particular tentpole moment on our calendar, then I do get to sit back a little bit and look a bit further out. And that's what I like, is that my, my job is not necessarily a series of staccato moments that I have to have engagement with day by day or week by week. Sometimes I do get super busy and focused on something in the immediate term, but otherwise I get to look a bit further out. And that's really what excites me because I get to look a year or even two years down the road. What's on the calendar, what's coming up? For example, there's, you know, Men's World cup is going to be here in the United States and in Canada and in Mexico next summer. How can we, how can we benefit from that? There's going to be more eyes on soccer generally, and it's an opportunity for us. It presents its own challenges, for sure, in terms of our calendar and when we play our matches. But more than anything, it's an opportunity. So again, being able to look a bit further out is something that I like and is not necessarily something that a lot of other businesses get an ability to do just because of the way that it's structured.
- [26:58]
Daniel Murray
Yeah, when you, you're planning for something like a championship match and you have to sell X number of tickets or you have to get X amount of people there, what are some things you think as a brand marketer to get people in seats or get more eyeballs or improve brand affinity.
- [27:18]
Andrew Larray
Yeah. And championship is a good example of that because we spend so much time working on it. It's not just a singular event. It really is like a week's worth of engagement opportunities for people who are in market. So last fall we held this match in Kansas City and we had a number of different events going on in and around Kansas City. In the days leading up to the championship match. We have a media day event in which we make a lot of big announcements and we give some player awards. Our NWSL skills challenge, which is presented by CarMax, happens during that week. That's sort of akin to a. We don't play an All Star game, but it's something like that. But it's a really fun event that we invite people out to and attend. And then it was also broadcast on, on CBS this past season we have our fan fest which takes place before our championship match. And we had our championship match. So it's. It's a ton of events that happen and it takes a lot of work. So how we market it is, is in a way that we. What we need to do is build the gravity of that week and ensure that it's a premium, a premium event. That people who are attending it, the people who are interacting with it on social media, that people who are going to watch it on TV understand that this is a major moment. And we are very fortunate to have a creative team which sits within my team that has a tremendous amount of experience in the sports world, whether that's working on design for Super Bowls or for MLB clubs or for NHL Winter Classic. We have a tremendous amount of talent here with the two person creative team and they are able and have been able to build creative that sets the tone for that championship week. And then everything that we do kind of ladders into that creative because they start with a story that we want to tell. So for instance, again last year in Kansas City, we played that championship match at CPKC Stadium, which is the first stadium purpose built for women's professional sports anywhere. And we sold the game out, which we knew we were going to do. But the whole story was this, you know, we've kind of come to this incredible moment now where women's sports is enjoying this tremendous trajectory. But not even that long ago, the facilities not just in our league but in others just weren't there. And now we have a stadium built specifically for professional women's team and we're playing our championship match there. And it bookended the season so nicely because the first game of last season was there as well. And so the creative took all these elements of that story that we wanted to tell and made it visually apparent. And so that's always in my mind, sort of our ace up our sleeve is that our creative team has tremendous experience in the sports world, but is also so rooted in story that it gives us a chance to put our brand out there in a way that is at an equal level, if not even above some of the other major North American sports leagues, and then build from there. It really does give us a leg up.
- [30:17]
Daniel Murray
Yeah, I love that you mentioned one storytelling. I think that is key and how creative can tell stories. I also think that sports kind of has a unique opportunity because you can balance off of cities, location logos based on location, events. And I also think that one thing you said that is really important that a lot of people don't think about right now because it was in Pandemic, we didn't have a lot of this, but like how important like activations and events are to lead up to bigger events like this. So I think that's really cool. I want to leave you with one last question that I ask everybody in the market Millennials podcast is what's a marketing hill you would die on?
- [31:09]
Andrew Larray
Oh, wow. Yeah. I would say the marketing hill that I would die on is that I, as often as I can, try to implore that this stuff takes time. Now, what I mean by this stuff is that, like me as a brand marketer, brands aren't built overnight. And you can't make people perceive your brand one way or another. You have to build a story. You have to know who you are. You have to decide what it is that you're trying to do and how you want to tell that story. And that in itself takes time. And determining what kind of brand you want to be is only the first step. And then you have to tell that story to everybody else and then they have to develop a perception about you and then they have to determine whether or not you're going to be worth their time, energy, effort, money, et cetera. That takes time. So brand building is a never ending exercise in marketing and in storytelling and in, in, in, in so many different, in so many different aspects. And it's as somebody who I, I did not go to school for marketing necessarily. I went to school because I thought I wanted to be a sports writer. So I was on a journalism track and I quickly realized after I graduated that I didn't want to be a sports writer. But I wanted to work in sports, and what I liked about journalism was writing. I didn't necessarily like the reporting aspect of it, but I liked writing. And so I've always been attracted to story and I have an ability to do that now. But again, telling your story is just the first step, and then people have to digest it and decide what to do with it. So I, again, to go back to your point from before, I get an ability to look further out. I understand not everybody else internally has that luxury. But. But when we have goals for viewership, for attendance, for revenue, yes, those are my goals, too. But I'm ensuring that we are set up not just to hit our goals this year, but to continue to hit them year after year, because I know they're going to grow. And it's my job to ensure that this league continues to grow. All of our jobs internally and especially in the marketing team, to ensure that this league continues to grow year after year.
- [33:19]
Daniel Murray
I think that's really important just to say to people, because, yes, brand is performance marketing, too, which is a lot of people that don't, don't think that, but brand is performance marketing. Your goal is to drive sales. Your goal is to get people in seats, but at the same time is that paid marketing is always rising. It gets more expensive to do it. And if you don't have a brand that is organically there, that shows up, that has a good story, you're going to keep trying to spend your way out of the problem, having a brand.
- [33:59]
Andrew Larray
And it's just, you're setting yourself up for failure. So, yeah, the backbone of it is, is brand in many ways.
- [34:04]
Daniel Murray
Yeah. Well, thank you so much. What is it? I want to end and give you the chance to say, where could people find you? Where could people follow the league? What is your favorite team? If you're allowed to say that?
- [34:18]
Andrew Larray
I truly don't have a favorite team. I am awed every day by our, by our, our players. But I don't, I don't root for a particular team in other sports. I'm New York through and through. Born, raised in New York, so I'm a Mets, Giants, Rangers fan.
- [34:32]
Daniel Murray
Yeah, that's a good answer. I'm. I'm excited that San Diego has a team because that was my hometown, so.
- [34:37]
Andrew Larray
Okay, cool.
- [34:38]
Daniel Murray
Go San Diego. Yeah. So. But thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
- [34:43]
Andrew Larray
Thanks for having me. This was fun.
- [34:48]
Daniel Murray
Thanks so much for listening. Keep tuning in to hear more great insights from the coolest marketers from around the world. If you haven't already. Make sure to subscribe and follow the Marketing Millennials podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. And if you like what you hear, I would greatly appreciate you giving us a five star rating. It helps bring more marketers into our community.