Podcast Summary: The Marketing Millennials – Ep. 380

"Build a Brand People Actually Trust" with Dr. Anna Persaud, CEO at This Works
Host: Daniel Murray
Date: January 2, 2026

Overview

In this special episode of The Marketing Millennials, Daniel Murray features a talk from Marketingland Festival 2025 with Dr. Anna Persaud, CEO and founder of This Works—a pioneering British wellness brand famous for creating the "pillow spray" category. Dr. Persaud details how she built a science-first, purpose-led brand that has thrived for over 22 years in a crowded market dominated by much larger players. The conversation covers brand purpose, the power of scientific credibility, how to earn and maintain consumer trust, innovation, failure, and evolving with cultural shifts.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Brand Purpose and Differentiation

(02:00–07:30)

• Origin Story & White Space:
  Dr. Persaud explains that sleep and its impact on wellness and skin health were overlooked in early 2000s culture, which glorified being busy and neglected sleep.

  • Quote:

    “It was about the culture. Busy. How busy am I? How much time can I devote to work?...But because of my background as a scientist...I knew sleep was fundamental to how we looked.” (03:45–04:20)

• Pioneering Mindset:
  The lack of an industry “playbook” for sleep wellness meant inventing their own rules and holding strong beliefs rooted in her scientific expertise.

  • “When you're a pioneer, you've got to have a set of beliefs...you haven't got a playbook to follow.” (04:45)

• Purpose as Resilience:
  Building a brand with a clear, problem-solving purpose gives it the resilience to last.

  • “For us, it was about creating solutions—solving problems they maybe didn't even know they had.” (06:30)

2. Proving Claims Through Relentless Science

(07:30–11:00)

• Building Brand Trust via Evidence:
  The name ‘This Works’ set a high bar—requiring everything from R&D pipelines, clinical trials, expert validation, and accumulating consumer trust through proof points.

  • “If you're going to say a brand is called This Works, you better evidence that.” (08:40)

• Proof Points and Impact:

  • #1 Sleep Brand in the UK
  • Originator of the pillow spray category
  • Over 12 million sleep sprays sold in 50+ countries
  • 200+ industry awards and regular third-party studies

• Continuous Innovation:
  Importance of innovating to stay ahead after creating (and hence inviting competitors to) a new category.

3. Pillars of Brand Longevity: Efficacy & Trust

(11:00–14:30)

• Rigorous Product Development:
  Progressing from large user studies to clinical trials—first on skin, then on sleep, even to neuroscience (e.g., studying brain reaction to fragrances).

  • "We brought in a protocol...large user studies...clinical studies measuring skin change... measuring sleep architecture...using the brain." (12:05–12:30)

• Communication Evolution:
  Adjusting how scientific proof is communicated, from snackable TikTok content to longform podcasts, to remain relevant to different audiences.

  • “One of the things I've learned...is how people like to assume and consume their information. Science today is delivered in a very different way than five years ago.” (13:40)

4. Rooting the Brand in Authentic Science

(14:30–16:00)

• Unique Brand DNA:
  Foundation is chronobiology—the science of circadian rhythms—and using it as an authentic, authority-building anchor instead of fleeting trends.
  • “It was about finding an authentic scientific fact that I could then build my brand upon as opposed to making something up...” (15:35)

5. Product Innovation: Lessons from Success and Failure

(16:00–18:10)

• Deep Sleep Pillow Spray:
  The foundational and bestselling product—served as the launching pad for category expansion.

  • “We know we're the number one sleep brand on Amazon UK...very significant revenue through this Deep Sleep pillow spray.” (16:55)

• Expansion and Experimentation:

  • Products for different sleep issues (e.g., can’t stay asleep)
  • Products for babies (“Baby Sleep spray”)
  • For intimacy (“Love of Sleep Pillow spray”)—an innovation that didn’t land because the market wasn’t ready
    • "Love of Sleep...was created using brain imaging...but it was a little bit too soon and our consumer wasn't really ready...so we discontinued it." (17:45)

• Fail Fast, Move On:
  Embracing innovation—even when products fail—as long as the company learns and adapts quickly.

6. Leveraging Personal & Collective Expertise

(18:15–19:05)

• Go Hard on Your Skills:
  Tap into your unique strengths for competitive advantage—be that science, networking, creativity, or social fluency.

  • “Use what you’ve got...go hard in those areas. It will give you a competitive advantage.” (18:30)

• Surround Yourself With Experts:
  Building collaborations with passionate experts, not just for social reach, but to enhance authenticity and relevance.

  • “Make sure you surround yourself with other people that know more stuff than you do.” (18:50)

7. Brand Relevance & Cultural Shifts

(19:10–21:00)

• Adapting to Societal Trends:
  The wellness market’s relevance has only grown as “switching off” gets harder—hence, brands must keep evolving their storytelling.

  • “I spend my time listening to and understanding people’s concerns about how they can’t switch off...these are not trends, they’re becoming big cultural shifts.” (19:45)

• Bedtime (Evening) Economy:
  Noting the significant market size (estimated at $585 billion) and the importance of storytelling and innovation as competition intensifies.

8. Future Outlook: Persisting with Passion and Proof

(21:00–end)

• Relentless Consistency:
  Building on scientific credibility, listening to consumers, innovating (e.g., developing scents based on terpene science), and showing up with “love and passion” for the brand.

• Final Advice:

  • “Building a brand based on scientific credibility, based on authority and then just continuing to show up in a persistent and consistent way is...why we’re still here doing what we do with so much love and passion.” (21:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being first and proof-driven:

  “We are the brand that put sleep on the map ...When I first created a sleep range, that knowledge was not at all common.” (04:00)

• On science as competitiveness:

  “It's also important to surround yourself by other experts … Make sure you surround yourself with other people that know more stuff than you do.” (18:50)

• On learning from failure:

  “It's really important not to be frightened about failing as long as you fail fast and you move on.” (17:59)

• On enduring relevance:

  “As the struggles against technology and an always on society ... have grown, my brand has become more and more relevant. But it’s my challenge to have to tell those stories in a way that they can understand.” (20:20)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 02:00 – Anna Persaud’s background; founding the brand, identifying white space
• 04:45 – The pioneering mindset—beliefs and scientific roots
• 07:30 – How 'This Works' backs up its name; proof through R&D, clinical studies
• 12:05 – The product development protocol; clinical and neuroscience studies
• 13:40 – Evolving scientific communication for different channels
• 16:55 – Deep Sleep Pillow Spray and category building
• 17:45 – Innovation attempts: Baby Sleep and Love of Sleep sprays
• 18:30 – Leveraging unique founder skillsets and building an expert team
• 19:45 – Addressing societal shifts; the growing “evening economy”
• 21:45 – Final thoughts: building a brand with scientific credibility, persistence, and passion

This episode provides a clear blueprint for marketing leaders aiming to build brands that earn lasting consumer trust, grounded in authentic purpose, robust scientific validation, relentless innovation, and honest storytelling.