Daniel Murray (2:22)

I always say that you need to have your copy written, that a five year old can understand it or an Elderly person could understand it. You need to make it so simple that you could do that. And people think that simple means that it is, takes the smart out of it. But actually, if you actually know your topic very well, like the best people know how to simplify it because they know it very well. If you're talking over your, over the head, over people's heads, it means you don't know really well. But you need to cater for that. The, the person who doesn't know what you're talking about on your website and your emails. I mean, we had this recent example and it also brings us back to, to the ground because the reason why we started off with acronyms is because even it happens in my podcast and newsletter. Sometimes I, I will say an acronym that I thought. Thought is a, a well known acronym like let's say customer acquisition costs, which is a lot of marketers know, but some don't. If you don't say, if you just say CAC and someone doesn't know what CAC is, then you just lost that, that prospect, that person off your website. So what are some other ways you think that why people should be doing this?

Jay Schwedelson (3:45)

You know, you don't want to embarrass anybody and it's not like they're publicly embarrassed, but they're going to feel a little embarrassed interacting with your brand. And that's a hu turned off. So one of the best things that you could do as an example in email, you could do it in your social posts too, is leveraging this idea of 101. The actual numbers 101. Like if you start your subject line with, you know, 101 colon the secrets about a better way to fitness or 101 how to choose the right CRM. When you say 101 to start your subject line, you see a dramatic increase in open rates and engagement because the recipient's like, wait a minute, this is going to be the information I'm supposed to know that maybe I don't know. And they feel very comfortable interacting with that. I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking, it was a marketing podcast and they were talking about stuff with AI and I didn't have a clue what they were talking about. I'm like, this is what I do for a living. I can't understand this. And it was a massive turnoff for me. So the sooner you can make somebody feel comfortable and not embarrassed, the sooner they want to interact with your brand.

Daniel Murray (4:51)

Yeah. So a couple of things that I think about when I am writing Copy or writing newsletters or writing is a couple of things. One, I use fifth grader language, so can I explain this to 10 year olds? So no big words. I always try to cut industry jargon because only people in the industry might know that. So using everyday language, I try to write how I talk. Like you're talking. These are humans. They have lies outside their job. So talk that. Another thing that people you could do to make your copy seem easier is just give analogies or metaphors, paint a picture in their head of what are you trying to say. So those are a couple of things you could do today to start simplifying your content and then read it out loud. I think a lot of people don't do this is read your copy out loud. Does it sound like you would say this? If you don't, you probably won't. What are some tips you have for doing this? Because you do a pretty good job of simplifying your content. Even your talks. Everybody understands what you're talking about.

Jay Schwedelson (5:56)

Yeah, I, I think it's this idea of people get confused. They think in order to be regarded as an expert, that you have to talk at an expert level. And the opposite is true. In order, not that I'm regarded as an expert, but in order to be regarded as an expert, you have to get, you have to build a tent where all the prospects, all your customers, whether they're business or consumer, right. They can consume what you're putting out there. So when you do things like, you know, this is the basics of this, this is what you need to know, right? When you lay the foundation, that is how you can get regarded as a thought leader in whatever it is you're promoting. And I will tell you, on a human level, the people that I have the most confidence in, the people that I want to work with the most, are the people that are confident to say I don't know. Right? When I asked Daniel a question about something marketing related and he goes, you know what, I don't know. Let me find that out and get back to you. I know Daniel's really smart. I know you know a lot about this stuff. So if he's willing to say I don't know, then I'm like, okay, cool, it's okay that I don't know also. So you don't always have, if you don't know the answer to something, be confident in saying I don't know. That is how you build that connection with somebody. As a matter of fact, Daniel, I was listening to your podcast the other Day you had Amy Porterfield on one of the best marketing experts in the country and you both were talking about an acronym that she didn't know and she was comfortable saying she didn't know what it was. And I immediately felt more connected to her because of that. I mean, do you subscribe to that?

Daniel Murray (7:29)

You just got to talk to people like humans. You have to talk to people like they don't understand. And one thing about marketing that's different than a lot of professions is that everybody's a beginner at some form of marketing. You can't be an expert at paid content, social, direct mail, all, all these different forms of marketing. So when you're talking about marketing, there's people who are really good at paid marketing that might not understand a thing about writing a good social post or, or how to, how to do good SEO because that's not what they focus on, that's not what they're good at. And that, and that's the beauty of marketing is that, that people don't know. But it also brings you to the playing field that you, that's why people say you have to become a T shape or table shape marketer because you have to know broadly at a 101 level or a little bit of above what every form of marketing is. But you have to talk to everybody like that because you can't assume that just because they're really good marketer and paid social they're going to be a good content marketer. You can't assume that. So you have to talk to them like they have never done content marketing.

Jay Schwedelson (8:47)

You know what else in general in life, I think they need to do a better job on food menus because I'll go out to a restaurant and they'll describe a dish. Does this happen? And I'm like, I'll turn to Ali. I'll be what the hell does that mean? I don't know what's going on. Are you able to like, like, do you, can you function in your regular day? Do you know what's going on? I feel like I don't know what's going on anymore.

Daniel Murray (9:08)

I do think there is a, a reason to be complex and over the top. I think it is a good filtering system. So if you just trying to get the best experts in a small field which is going to be a small niche, then go complex. Like if you want to go, if you want to seem fancy and eliminate non fancy people, put fancy words on your menu that nobody understands and we can order it because I understand what chicken is. I don't understand what blah, blah, blah, blah is. So I understand what you're saying. I have to now take out my phone when I go to a restaurant, take a picture of the menu and ask ChatGPT, what are these menu items? And can I have any of these? It's crazy.

Jay Schwedelson (9:57)

Well, I love the best. I got a new review the other day on for the podcast, and all it just said was good. I was like, okay, I understand what that means. Good, fine. I'm sold with that. I have to take out my phone with a menu because I can't read anything. I need to go to the eye doctor. Meanwhile, let's. Everybody's got a pause here, and they got to follow the marketing Millennials podcast. What are you doing? Why are you following this thing and leave Daniel review? Tell him that he's good because he is. Daniel, you got anything else?

Daniel Murray (10:27)

The last thing I will say is DM us your feedback. What do you want to hear? What you want to know? We don't know everything, but we could find the answer. We don't know anything, but also do the same for do this, not that podcast. Top three podcasts in the country, and it's been on the chart. I think you're like a 20, Pete or something like a 30. Yeah, it's, it's, it's on a roll.

Jay Schwedelson (10:57)

I appreciate everybody and go find an ackerman. You don't understand. Keep it real, Daniel. Come on, man. I gotta get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast, do this, not that, for marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.

Daniel Murray (11:20)

Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Mark and Millennial podcast, but also tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email, subject line to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out.