SPECIAL SERIES: When to Fire Your Clients | Bathroom Break #41 🚽

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Marketing Millennials – SPECIAL SERIES: When to Fire Your Clients | Bathroom Break #41 🚽

Host(s):

• Daniel Murray – Host of The Marketing Millennials
• Jay Schwedelson – Host of Do This, Not That podcast

Release Date: February 3, 2025

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Introduction

In this special episode of The Marketing Millennials, host Daniel Murray collaborates with Jay Schwedelson from the Do This, Not That podcast for the "Bathroom Break" series. This collaborative series aims to deliver quick, actionable marketing tips that listeners can digest during a short break—perfect for those limited 10-minute moments.

Casual Banter: The Super Bowl Discussion

The episode kicks off with a lighthearted discussion about the upcoming Super Bowl, reflecting on personal perspectives and the marketing implications of such a major event.

• Jay Schwedelson introduces the episode with humor, stating, “[00:01]... That extra 10 minutes you either have to listen to marketing tips or use the bathroom. Or both. But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.”

• Daniel Murray shares his nuanced view: “[01:19] As a marketer, I think it's a fun time. As a football fan, it's not a fun time.” He contrasts the NFL with college football, appreciating the latter's dynamism and opportunities for creative marketing.

• Jay expresses his disinterest in the Super Bowl itself, emphasizing a preference for watching the commercials over the game: “[02:21]...I just don't care. And I want to watch the commercials.”

Main Discussion: When to Fire Your Clients

The core of the episode revolves around the crucial business decision of terminating client relationships. Both Daniel and Jay share their experiences and strategies for identifying when it's time to part ways with a client.

Identifying Problematic Clients

• Daniel Murray highlights that typically, only 5-10% of clients become problematic, often those who pay less but demand disproportionately more: “[03:15]... the usually it's only 5% or 10% of clients that are really annoying.”

• He emphasizes the importance of recognizing when a client's demands outweigh their value: “[03:15]...if the time to value doesn't equal, then it's time to get rid of them.”

Setting Clear Expectations

• Jay Schwedelson reflects on his past challenges, admitting that poor management of client expectations led to unnecessary frustrations: “[04:11]...we were doing a very bad job of management of expectations.”

• To mitigate this, Jay and his team became more transparent during onboarding and raised their service minimums, ensuring only clients who align with their standards remain.

• Daniel Murray concurs, stressing the necessity of defining boundaries in contracts: “[05:18]...have things in your contract that say, let's say you get X number of revisions you have, here's the scope is clear.”

Raising Minimums and Pricing as Filters

• Jay discusses the correlation between clients who invest less financially and their propensity to be demanding: “[05:18]...there's I think, a direct correlation between how vocal and annoying a client might be and how little they spend.”

• Daniel Murray suggests that increasing rates can naturally filter out less ideal clients: “[09:07]...once you fire a client, raise your rates, because usually at the start you have these lower rates and then you start more as demand goes.”

Maintaining Team Culture and Support

• Jay underscores the importance of protecting team morale by not tolerating disrespectful clients: “[06:16]...your team needs to know that you have their back and that you won't stand for that no matter what.”

• He warns that allowing disrespect can rapidly deteriorate organizational culture, making it imperative to prioritize team well-being over maintaining certain client relationships.

Niching Down for Greater Success

• Daniel Murray advises focusing on "dream clients" that closely match your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP): “[07:08]...having that in upfront process and knowing these are your dream clients.”

• By niching down, businesses can scale more effectively, avoiding the pitfalls of overextending resources to accommodate unsuitable clients: “[07:08]...the business scales way faster than if you try to get more squeezed from all these different people that are fringe ICP.”

Referring Clients to Other Vendors

• Jay shares a strategic approach to handle service gaps by referring clients to trusted vendors: “[08:07]...we have a list of vendors that we refer to...creating a list...can turn into a real valuable thing for your overall business.”

• This practice not only ensures clients receive the services they need but also strengthens professional networks without compromising on service quality.

Strategies for Maintaining Healthy Client Relationships

Both hosts agree that proactive management and clear communication are essential for sustaining fruitful client relationships. By setting boundaries, clearly defining scopes, and maintaining transparent communication, businesses can minimize the need to fire clients and foster more sustainable partnerships.

Final Thoughts and Recommendations

The episode concludes with light-hearted banter about ideal Super Bowl halftime performers, but the key takeaway emphasizes the importance of making strategic decisions that prioritize business health and team well-being.

• Jay humorously cautions against indiscriminately firing clients: “[12:12]...hope everybody doesn't go off and just fire all their clients after this episode.”

• Both hosts encourage listeners to implement the discussed strategies to enhance their business operations and client management.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jay Schwedelson: “[00:13]...if you want to be in the bathroom, fine, just don't tell us about it.”

• Daniel Murray: “[01:19]...as a marketer, I think it's a fun time. As a football fan, it's not a fun time.”

• Daniel Murray: “[03:15]...if the time to value doesn't equal, then it's time to get rid of them.”

• Jay Schwedelson: “[04:11]...we were doing a very bad job of management of expectations.”

• Daniel Murray: “[05:18]...have things in your contract that say, let's say you get X number of revisions you have, here's the scope is clear.”

• Jay Schwedelson: “[06:16]...your team needs to know that you have their back and that you won't stand for that no matter what.”

• Daniel Murray: “[07:08]...knowing these are your dream clients.”

• Jay Schwedelson: “[08:07]...creating a list of kind of companies and people that you can refer in each of the different buckets...”

Conclusion

This episode of the Bathroom Break series offers invaluable insights into client management, emphasizing the importance of setting clear expectations, valuing team well-being, and strategically focusing on ideal clients. By implementing these strategies, marketers and business owners can foster healthier, more productive client relationships while ensuring sustainable business growth.

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• LinkedIn: The Marketing Millennials
• Instagram: @the_marketing_millennials

Follow the Hosts:

• Daniel Murray on Twitter: @Dmurr68
• Daniel Murray on LinkedIn: Daniel Murray

Subscribe:

• Newsletter: The Marketing Millennials Newsletter

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Transcript

[Unknown Host]

Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom break. That extra 10 minutes you either have to listen to marking tips or use the bathroom. Or both. But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.

[Jay Schwedelson]

This collab is going to be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials and me, Jay Schwedelson from the do this, not that podcast and subjectline.com each episode in the series, we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine, just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out. We are back for another episode of the Bathroom Break. This is Jay Schwedelson from the do this, not that podcast. And I'm here with the great Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials podcast. And today we're going to be talking about firing clients. But before we talk about firing clients, we got a big football game coming up. The super bowl is coming up, and for those of you who don't know, Daniel was a Division 1 football player. University of Cincinnati and San Diego. University of San Diego. Do I have that right? I think I have that right.

[Daniel Murray]

You got it right.

[Jay Schwedelson]

And so I got a question for you. When the Super Bowl's coming up, are you like, oh, wow, I love football. I'm all hyped. And you like planning it out for, like weeks and you can't wait to go and eat nachos and analyze football. Or could you care less?

[Daniel Murray]

As a marketer, I think it's a fun time. As a football fan, it's not a fun time.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Why?

[Daniel Murray]

I just think NFL has got two entertainment eyes, if that's even a word. But it's so much slower. I like college football more. There's more things going on. There's more. I rather watch college football than NFL, but I do like it as a marketer's Super Bowl. Of them, the most creative marketers trying to put out the best content. What about you?

[Jay Schwedelson]

Well, I don't want. I'm very disappointed with both the Chiefs and the Eagles. I can care less. I wish it was new teams. So the whole thing sucks. My biggest thing with super bowl is we get invited to, like, so and so's house for a Super bowl party or whatever. And I absolutely don't want to go because I wind up sitting next to an idiot who wants to tell me all the stats that they've memorized heading into that person's house. And I just don't care. And I want to watch the commercials. I can't watch the commercials. I only know one song by Kendrick Lamar and, and he's the halftime performer. So the whole thing is a hot mess for me.

[Daniel Murray]

Jay just low key, just told everybody how popular he is that he gets invited to all these parties. But yes, it's tough going to those parties because you either can't hear anything or that's just if you really want good food, go to the parties. If you don't want to watch anything about the game, you go to a party.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Well, along those lines. So I'm firing whoever's inviting me to a party, so that way I'll fire them as friends. But speaking of firing them as friends, also about firing clients, we both have marketing services businesses, right? And there are some clients that we both have that we we've had for years. We love working with them. It's great. But what about firing clients? Have. Do you fire clients or do you just put up with nonsense like when do you know it's the right time to say goodbye to a client?

[Daniel Murray]

Especially in the service business, if the time value and the time suck for all the communication doesn't equal the same amount because the usually it's only 5% or 10% of clients that are really annoying and we do have standards for clients, but the 10% that it's usually people who don't pay a lot and then they ask for a lot more and they're annoying. So what I figured out is that if you don't fire them, you're spending 10x more time on this one client where you could be going out to get two better clients in that person's place. So I hated for the time drain, the time suck, the also the stress is not worth it. Obviously if you're just getting started, you might have to deal with that client for a little bit until you scale up. But I think once the time to value doesn't equal, then it's time to get rid of them.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah, I totally agree. And what I found in my business was years ago we were wanting to fire more clients, like a lot. And I took a step back and I said, well, is there something we're doing wrong? And I realized we were doing a very bad job of management of expectations. We were kind of selling almost the impossible. Like all these amazing things are going to happen if you work with us, right? And then out of the gate it, you know, might take some time for all those amazing things to happen. And the clients were onboarding and it wasn't going great and they were being super annoying and Just poking at us and all this stuff. And we were saying, get rid of you, get rid of you, get rid of you. And really the problem was more how we were onboarding people and what we were telling them. And so we changed that. We were more upfront about it, which was great. The other thing we did was we raised our minimums because to your point, there's I think, a direct correlation between how vocal and annoying a client might be and how little they spend because they, you know, they're watching every single penny and they're nervous and they're whatever and it just drives me bananas. So we upped our minimums and that helped a lot too.

[Daniel Murray]

I think also going back to what you said, one of the best advices that I got when I was just working as a head of marketing ops somewhere is my boss told me because I would get things done really fast and people started expecting that as you teach people how to treat you. So I think if you don't set expectations up front and have things in your contract that say, let's say you get X number of revisions you have, here's the scope is clear. I think changing what you said up front, like you said, it has to be put in your contracts that you, you only get this much time, this many meetings, this many revisions, this many X. Cause that's when you screw yourself. And that's exactly. If you don't do that, you start teaching people that it's okay to reach out on the weekends, it's okay to reach out doing slack at all hours. It's okay to bug, treat your employees good to bad. You have to set that expectation that that's not okay. This is how we run our agents.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah. And you know, you bring up an important point and I don't care how big the client is in my organization could be our biggest client. If they treat the team rudely, like they are inappropriate, you know, cursing at them or doing something really over the top, whatever, that's, that's a non starter from, that's goodbye, don't care who you are for true reasons. Number one, I don't want to work with people like that. But most importantly, your team needs to know that you have their back and that you won't, you won't stand for that no matter what. Because if not, I think the culture of your organization will deteriorate really fast. That if you're, if people on the team feel that something like that is allowable, then they don't want to be a part of that. And that's the fastest way to crush culture in a business is for people to not feel supported. At least that's what we see.

[Daniel Murray]

It's also in every business is that if you try to sell to everybody, it starts becoming a problem. So going back and saying, look at your clients right now. What are my dream clients? What do they do? What are the characteristics? And having that in upfront process and knowing these are your dream clients. What happened to me a lot of the time is I just took on, oh, they slightly are in our ICP or they slightly we could do this. And then we realized it was harder work because we're not as good in that industry, or it was way more time because it took longer to write for that person. Sometimes you need to niche down to scale up. And I realized like if you super focused on one thing, it's the business scales way faster than if you try to get more squeezed from all these different people that are fringe ICP or even not even in your ideal customer.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah. And it's not even a matter of like annoying clients or people that you want to fire in that regard. It's just not a fit. And that's fine. And one of the things that we do which has been really, really helpful is we have a list of vendors that we refer to. Not people that we get, you know, any type of like referral fee, but different, different people that we refer to in other businesses for where we get asked where people think we do something that we actually don't do. Like we don't do SEO, for example. Right. But we get hit up about doing SEO all the time. And there are certain companies that we refer to because we just don't do that. And the good part about that is when you're able to say, hey, these are great company, we know them, work with them, whatever. That person at that company then becomes a valuable part of your network. They appreciate the fact you refer them to somebody you know, and then they'll connect you with somebody. So creating a list of kind of companies and people that you can refer in each of the different buckets that are most requested of you that you don't do can turn into a real valuable thing for your overall business.

[Daniel Murray]

And one last point I'll make is at a certain point in a business, that extra revenue is not worth that client. And that's something you have to just take a hit on. That extra revenue might take your team's freedom, your freedom away, your time, you're more stressful and you have to do an audit to yourself, is that extra revenue really worth my time? Energy and time suck. And usually when you look back and you fire that client, you figure out they weren't worth our time, they weren't with our energy, they weren't worth anything. So I think, and one point I want to just double down is I think pricing is the best filter for that. I think once you fire a client, raise your rates, because usually at the start you have these lower rates and then you start more as demand goes. You have to raise your rates to make that a better filter for yourself. So.

[Jay Schwedelson]

All right, before you wrap up here, I'm just curious if you were playing the super bowl and you could bring any, you know, musical talent to do the halftime show? Anybody? I want to know who Daniel Murray is bringing to the super bowl to be the halftime show performer.

[Daniel Murray]

It's a really good question. I'm going to go with it because I just saw the movie complete unknown. I think like Bob Dylan to do it because he's been out of it for a while and like, nobody knows. I think they'll be like, oh, he's coming. It's this mysterious factor. He hasn't played for a while. That's a cop out answer, I would say. But I think, I mean, everybody. What's your answer to that? Or the Cranberries?

[Jay Schwedelson]

Oh, love the Cranberries, but Dolores passed away sadly, so they can't. She's not around anymore. I love the Cranberries.

[Daniel Murray]

I know the Cranberries would have been great.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Well, this year they have Kendrick Lamar. I think it would have been really cool if they also had Drake because they have beef and like, they could have done their diss tracks live. And even that would have been like, something like that would be cool because like I said to my mom, hey, do you know Kendrick Lamar? You know he's doing the halftime show. And I could have said, do you know any. Any other human? She's like, I have no idea what you just said. I don't know what a Kendrick Lamar sings, does whatever. So I think you need something that like resonates with a massive audience. Bob Dylan would be good, but I don't actually think he has the ability to do a 15 minute performance. No shade on him. I just feel like, you know, he's checked out a little bit. What. What the hell do I know?

[Daniel Murray]

I just think just like the beef online. It's just this is your one last time to see Bob Dylan. I think that'd be. There's something. How you market it would be the. Yeah, because everybody would be like, I never saw Bob Dylan before.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Just like that would be cool.

[Daniel Murray]

Seeing the Beatles one more time last time.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Get Paul McCartney to come back and do it. Get Taylor Swift to do it this year. That would be like epic.

[Daniel Murray]

That's what I was gonna say is my cop out answer, but I wasn't gonna go there.

[Jay Schwedelson]

All right, well, listen, hope everybody doesn't go off and just fire all their clients after this episode. That would be terrible. Hang in there and listen. Go follow the marketing. Millennial show. Fantastic. Daniel crushes it. And we'll see at the next one. Daniel, come on, man. I gotta get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast, do this, not that, for marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.

[Unknown Host]

Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Mark and Millennials podcast, but also tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email, subject line to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear.

[Daniel Murray]

Peace out.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Later.