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- [00:02]
Daniel Murray
Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom break. That extra 10 minutes, you either have to listen to marking tips or use the bathroom or both. But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.
- [00:13]
Jay Schwedelson
This collab is going to be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials, and me, Jay Schwedelson from the do this, not that podcast and subjectline.com each episode in the series, we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine. Just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out. We are back for the Bathroom Break. This is Jay Schwedelson from Do this, not that. And I'm here with the man himself, Daniel Murray. And before we get into an awesome topic, today, Daniel and I went out for dinner. We had a great time, but Daniel lives about an hour away from me. He lives in Miami. I live in Boca. And, Daniel, when you went home, you hit massive traffic. So I want to know something. Do you get, like, do you start freaking out? Do you, like, curse at people, give people the middle finger? Or are you like, you know what? It's okay. I'm super chill, man.
- [01:04]
Daniel Murray
Well, let me give a context. This is the worst thing that happened, because if I'm preparing mentally that, like, it says it's going to be an hour and a half home and there's traffic, I'm fine. But what happened is I left boca at, like, 10:15, and I'm like, oh, we're all like, we're 30 minutes in this, and I'm in North Miami. And they shut down the whole freeway from North Miami all the way to where I live. And it ended up. I have to. I had to, like, get off the freeway. And then I started getting angry. I was like. But I was more angry at, like, the city of Miami for doing this. Also. I was also angry that people started using, like, the side, the shoulder. Like, like. So when people would try to exit the freeway, people were, like, driving on the grass and stuff. And that was really annoying. Um, my bug was boiling, though.
- [01:56]
Jay Schwedelson
That's good for Bathro Break. Good update there. And by the way, for everyone who thinks I'm a jerk that I didn't meet Daniel halfway. He did not want to meet halfway. He wanted to come to Boca. So I'm sorry you had road rage or whatever you had. But let's get into the topic of the day. This is a really important one. And this applies to business marketers or consumer marketers. Everybody spends so much time on the content. Oh, we need a new piece of content to promote and get out there. Or we need a new webinar, or we need a special sale. But we don't spend enough time on the actual name of the content or the sale or the offer. And if we don't have the right name, then who cares what's inside? Who cares what the offer is or the content is? So Daniel, do you subscribe to that? Do you believe that?
- [02:41]
Daniel Murray
Yes, because I feel like, especially in B2B, let's start the B2B examples with names like white paper, webinar, ebook. Those are names now people are like synonymously of things that are boring, not helpful, or I don't want to read that. But if you change like the name to like ebook to like here's my playbook, like, or here's my like guide to something, it's way more convincing to do that. Or webinar, which you, you. We both do something different. I call my big virtual event a year a festival because like, if I don't want to call it a web, a huge conference because conferences seem boring. So I call it a marketing festival. It's just a quick naming change to just. It also sets expectation what the content is. If you, the name, the name, like a playbook sets expectation, you're going to get like the play by play or like something that I can use right now where like an ebook doesn't really tell you anything that you're going to get.
- [03:48]
Jay Schwedelson
Yeah. And just to play off that a little bit, here's some data like, and everyone out there, think about it this way. Let's say you had a new guide that you were trying to get people to download. Okay, you don't need to call it a guide. What is the difference really between a guide, an ebook, a checklist, a blueprint, and if you're not testing the format name, you're missing out on a key variable. First of all, never promote an ebook. Nobody actually downloads an ebook. Nobody reads an ebook. If you are being given an ebook to promote, change that to being called a guide. We see, if you go ebook versus guide, we see a 30% higher download rate for guide. But even beyond that, that for the same content piece, you can call it a checklist, you can call it a playbook, and that will go even better than a guide. The most important thing is if you're not testing that as a variable, you're leaving a huge thing on the table and that's why your response rates are down. So Daniel, how else does this apply to things like, you know, consumer offers or other things?
- [04:49]
Daniel Murray
I just want to add one more thing to that. Is the, an easy way to test that. Like just say you send an email marketing. You can have split. Test the CTA to like download guide, download ebook, have the landing page just switch guide and ebook on both sides and see how, what the difference is. Like, it's an easy test that you could run right now to test which one works better with your audience. So that's an easy test. The other thing to think about and is renaming a sale to something different. Jay had some good names for this, like big summer blowout and stuff like that. What was, what was your. What's your sale name?
- [05:28]
Jay Schwedelson
So let's say you do have a sale, okay. And you're like, okay, this is our special summer savings. And you're like, okay, that's what it is. So we'll just call that. And then you move on to making sure your website's optimized. All that stuff. What you are calling that sale is everything. It could be the ultimate swimsuit sale, right? The ultimate coaches sale. If you're a coach or whatever, versus, you know, our big summer sale. I will tell you this. What you call it as an a B test, one of them is going to be the winner. You can't just test the creative. You can't just test the subject line. You have to be testing the name of your content, the name of your offers.
- [06:04]
Daniel Murray
And if you, if you even want to go deeper with that is like, if you do segmentation, you can be like, this is a sale for tennis players. This is a sale for basketball players. This is a. And segment your list and call differently on your list and on those product pages. You can have different names because you've like separated your, your list to those different things. So you can call it differently by segmentation, like Jay said too. And that will help a lot because then people know, like the sales. For me, instead of saying the sale, this is just a general sale for everybody.
- [06:43]
Jay Schwedelson
Now you were saying, like, you need to have like 15 headlines or something. What were you saying before?
- [06:47]
Daniel Murray
I think that before you write any piece of content ever, you should know that if the headline and the hook of the piece of content is good before you even start writing the piece. So what I like to do before I write any like newsletter or any piece of content is I'll write 20 headlines for every piece of content, even for emails. Like, I will write 20 subject lines and see which ones I would like. Pick to the ab test. But still I will have like. And then I'll write my email. Because if nobody's opening or reading the cash for the first line, like Ogilvy used to say that like 80. Your headline's 80% of your dollar spent. Like, it's like if you're. That is your main thing to get something open. And that naming of your headline is so important. And most people, what they do is do the landing page verse or do the write the whole piece of content then come up. But if your hook is not good, even with social media, come up with the hook before you record the whole piece of content is so important before you do that. So that's like we're talking about is like naming the piece of content. But also naming that headline of what this is is so important to get people to take the next action. And that's the whole goal.
- [08:09]
Jay Schwedelson
Yeah. And I really think it's a change of mindset. You know, when you go to a restaurant, you don't try a dish. You try the name that you read in the menu. And that's exactly how it works for your sale or for your content offer. People aren't trying. They're not interested in your content or your offer. They're interested in what it's called. So spend a lot of time and energy on what you're calling it and test it and retest it and change it. Speaking of menu, so Daniel and I went out for dinner and Daniel, you crushed sushi. So what is your like, you know, when you look at a menu, do you just automatically go to, like, certain things? Like, because are you never like a burger guy? Like, what's your go to when you look at a menu?
- [08:57]
Daniel Murray
This is gonna sound so ex football player, but I go straight to like, what are the proteins on the, like, menu? Like, yeah, protein heavy. And it's just. I'm also South African and that I grew up on just meat and like potato type thing. So it's. I go straight to the Ari's. The opposite. She'll go straight to carbs. So she'll order the carb. I'll try to find the best protein on the menu.
- [09:28]
Jay Schwedelson
Well, would you order like just a salad?
- [09:32]
Daniel Murray
No, no.
- [09:35]
Jay Schwedelson
Would you go to a vegan restaurant?
- [09:37]
Daniel Murray
But I would go to a salad. I would order a salad if it was at Vinny's Cafe.
- [09:41]
Jay Schwedelson
You're so stupid. There's a cafe right near where I live called Vinny's. It's viral on TikTok and they make the world's biggest salads. It's very annoying that it went viral on TikTok because it's a decent salad place, but you can' get in. Because it went viral on TikTok and because people like Daniel talk about it, which is super annoying.
- [09:59]
Daniel Murray
Oh, well, this is the funniest thing Jay said. I told him I went to Vinnie's because I came up early to Boca, and he's like, it's not that good. And then his wife goes, didn't you get that for lunch? And aren't you trying to eat this after he already had Vinnies at home? Like, and he's hating on. He was hating on me getting Vinnie.
- [10:19]
Jay Schwedelson
I know I'm gonna get canceled at Vinny's now. They're not gonna let me back in. Listen, everybody here. Do Daniel a solid. Go and follow the Marketing Millennials. It is an incredible. My favorite podcast. I like it more than mine, for sure. And leave him a review, tell him he's awesome, and, yeah, we'll see you at the next one. Daniel, come on, man. I gotta get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast, do this, not that, for Marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing, and I hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.
- [10:56]
Daniel Murray
Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Market Millennials podcast, but also tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email, subject line to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a. A shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out.
- [11:18]
Jay Schwedelson
Later.