Podcast Summary: The Marketing Psychology Behind High-Performing CTAs

Podcast: The Marketing Millennials
Host: Daniel Murray
Guest: Jay Schwedelson
Episode: Bathroom Break #88
Date: December 29, 2025

Overview

In this episode of "Bathroom Break," a special short-form series from The Marketing Millennials, Daniel Murray teams up with Jay Schwedelson (subjectline.com, "Do This, Not That" podcast) to unravel the subtle but powerful role of psychology in creating high-performing Calls to Action (CTAs). The focus is on actionable insights for marketers aiming to boost engagement and response rates across email, social, and website experiences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Hidden Power of Direct Instructions in Marketing

• Behavioral psychology: The hosts discuss how explicitly telling people what to do in your copy activates a subconscious compliance mechanism, resulting in higher engagement rates.
• Every channel matters: This approach is effective across social posts, emails, and website elements.

Jay (04:23): "If you start your [email] subject line with 'open this'...it actually lifts open rates by about 15% from what we've seen. It's ridiculous, because you're telling somebody what to do."

2. Moving Beyond Generic CTAs

• Past the "Click here" Era: Daniel and Jay agree that traditional CTAs like "click here" or "register" are now less effective.
• Be action-forward: Use action-specific, expectation-setting commands, such as:
  • "Screenshot this and send it to your team"
  • "Save this for later"
  • "Network here" instead of "Community"

Daniel (03:17): "I think one way I like to do this is in ads or content and saying it at the end, 'screenshot this and send this to your team', 'save this for later'."

3. Practical CTA Experiments and Results

• Email subject lines: Adding "open this" yields a notable increase in open rates.
• LinkedIn carousels: Posts that include "save this post" get more saves, as verified by LinkedIn analytics.
• Website buttons/nav bars: Daniel proposes testing action-oriented language on navigation buttons, predicting better retention and engagement.

Jay (04:23): "It’s a little bit annoying that it works...our subconscious reacts to what we're told to do."

Daniel (05:26): "Instead of saying 'content library', you could say 'learn here'...having an idea what they’re going to do when they click that button is way better than just having obvious titles."

4. Placement and Timing of CTAs

• Front-load action: Instead of only using CTAs at the end, insert them at the beginning to maximize the number of people who act.
• Be clear on outcomes: Specify what action you want, and what the outcome will be, improving relevance and response.

Jay (06:30): "Instead of just doing it at the end of the motion, do it at the beginning...so you can get more people to actually make it to the end."

5. Measuring and Iterating on CTA Success

• Track platform metrics: Pay attention to what the platform values (e.g., "saves" on LinkedIn, "shares" on Instagram) and nudge users towards those actions.
• Test and adapt: Continuously experiment with CTAs to see measurable lifts in performance metrics.

Daniel (06:59): "Test different CTA buttons to make them more action forward instead of just generic...If a platform is tracking that metric...that gives you signal that you’re trending in the right direction."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the irrational effectiveness of direct commands:
  • Jay (04:23): "It’s a little bit annoying that it works...for some reason the subconscious, we react to what we’re told to do."
• On crafting better CTAs in digital environments:
  • Daniel (05:26): "Instead of saying 'content library', you could say 'learn here'...I’m betting it’ll help retention."
  • Jay (06:30): "We’ve all been doing this, but in a horribly boring way."
• Summing up the marketer’s job:
  • Daniel (06:59): "The hardest thing to do in marketing is to get attention...once you have attention, the next thing you need to do is invest in capturing that attention."
• On embarrassing gym habits (icebreaker):
  • Jay (01:13): "I'm not thinking about getting healthy or getting stronger. I'm just thinking about how embarrassed I am by how weak I am when I'm at the gym."
  • Daniel (01:52): "I've been kicking off tennis again...but I don't want anyone to see me until I'm good again."

Important Timestamps

• 03:17 – Daniel on practical CTA copy and the demise of "click here"
• 04:23 – Jay shares data-backed results of direct CTAs in subject lines and LinkedIn carousels
• 05:26 – Daniel suggests testing action-oriented button/navigation copy on websites
• 06:30 – Jay on rethinking the placement and style of CTAs
• 06:59 – Daniel on measuring results, platform metrics, and CTA experimentation

Tone & Takeaways

The banter keeps a relaxed, self-effacing, and actionable tone (with regular digressions about gym anxiety and celebrity routines). The hosts advocate for relentless experimentation and data-driven iterations when it comes to CTAs, urging marketers to embrace uncomfortable truths about human psychology—even if it sometimes "annoys you that it works." The key actionable advice:
Spell out the desired action, make it specific, and measure everything.

For ongoing marketing experiments and tips, the hosts suggest trying direct CTAs widely and tracking the impact—because telling people exactly what to do, it turns out, is still among the most reliable marketing hacks.