The Marketing Millennials

Episode: The Truth About Losing Email Subscribers (and Fatherhood) | Bathroom Break #72 🚽
Date: September 8, 2025
Hosts: Daniel Murray & Jay Schwedelson

Episode Overview

In this fast-paced Bathroom Break episode, Daniel Murray (The Marketing Millennials) and guest co-host Jay Schwedelson (Subjectline.com, Do This, Not That Podcast) tackle the anxiety-inducing topic of email unsubscribes—especially during the high-churn Q4 marketing season. Alongside actionable insights for marketers, they detour into Daniel’s perspective on new fatherhood, AI for parenting, and the parallels between diaper-changing volume and marketing “reps.” The tone is candid, humorous, and practical—a quick hit of tough marketing love with life updates mixed in.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Daniel’s New Chapter: Fatherhood & AI Parenting Advice

• Daniel shares he's just become a father and describes the emotional highs, lack of sleep, and the evolution of his diaper-changing skills.

• Emphasizes the support role of AI in parenting, like querying ChatGPT about practical (and sometimes anxious) parenting questions.

  “It’s the highest of highs of having a kid... trying to take care of myself too. I get why people say things flip a switch when you have a kid, but I’m glad I live in the age of AI now and it could solve a lot of worries parents have.”
  — Daniel Murray [00:58]

• Jay jokes about AI judgment:

  “So does it say actually you’re a horrendous dad and you need to go find help?”
  — Jay Schwedelson [01:38]

2. Diaper-Changing as a Volume Game & Marketing Analogy

• Daniel boasts about elite diaper-changing skills, citing high daily numbers.
• Jay draws a comparison to marketing, noting that both parenting and marketing require “getting your reps in.”

  “It’s a volume game, getting a number. But you know, the doctor says you have to get at least four to five pee diapers and he’s exceeding that, so I’m proud of him.”
  — Daniel Murray [02:12]

3. The Seasonality & Psychology of Email Unsubscribes

• Jay presents data: Unsubscribes spike dramatically (over 200% increase) from October 1 to December 15, due to pre-holiday deal-hunting and consumers cleaning up their inboxes for “inbox zero” goals.

• Economic pressures and deal addiction amplify this trend for 2025.

  “From October 1 through December 15, it is the highest unsubscribe period for any other time of the year. That 75 day period... unsubscribe rates are 230% higher during that period [consumer]. And on the business side they’re 220% higher...”
  — Jay Schwedelson [02:22]

4. Why High Unsubscribes Aren’t Always Bad

• The churn largely results from people grabbing a welcome offer and then bailing for better deals—especially if subsequent offers aren’t as competitive.

• Daniel advocates for making secondary offers more attractive and using unsubscribes to clean your list and hone your core audience.

  “You want to have people on your list who want to buy and want to continuously buy and it’s a good signal that someone’s alive on your list. You rather have someone leave your list... than have someone that you don’t know if they’re opening or closing your email.”
  — Daniel Murray [03:17]

• Both agree: Don't panic or cut back because of Q4 unsubscribe spikes; manage expectations and focus on valid tracking and content/audience alignment.

  “The biggest fail that we both see marketers make is the reaction to unsubscribes. What they do is... their unsubscribes start to tick up higher. They go, ‘Oh no, we’re sending out too much email.’ ...That’s why it’s important internally to manage the expectations. Say, no, no, no, no. This is the time of year that we get high unsubscribe.”
  — Jay Schwedelson [04:23]

5. When to Worry About Unsubscribes

• Daniel emphasizes comparative thinking:

  • If unsubscribes spike after off-brand or irrelevant sends, adjust your content.
  • If unsubscribes are seasonal or after regular content, don’t overreact—focus on whether you’re retaining the right audience.

  “If I’m consistently doing content-audience matching with my content, I’m not worried... I’m more worried if I send something out of the blue and then I see a high unsubscribe rate.”
  — Daniel Murray [05:17]

6. AI Accusations & Retaining Core Subscribers

• Daniel notes that long-form, in-depth newsletters (like his, with 150k+ readers) now face unsubscribes from people suspecting AI-written content—based on things like emoji use or trivial stylistic cues.

• He’s transparent: uses AI for editing and minor fixes, never for ideation or core writing.

• Stresses the importance of not catering to unsubscribes based on misperception and regularly analyzing retention curves. Most drop-offs occur in the first 2-3 months; long-term retention is more stable.

  “The point of an email list is to get to the closest to your ICP [ideal customer profile] as possible. Like, you want the core audience on your list and you want to keep looking at the retention of that core audience.”
  — Daniel Murray [07:27]

7. Fatherhood Take 2: Visitors & Protective Instincts

• Jay brings the conversation back to Daniel’s parental boundaries: no kissing the baby, mandatory handwashing and recent TDAP shot to visit.

  “Babies are very raw. Babies are very... they can get whooping cough very easily... So if you don’t have a TDAP job in the last five years, you can’t come see my baby... But just don’t kiss the baby and wash your hands, and it’s all fine.”
  — Daniel Murray [09:15]

Memorable Quotes

• On Q4 Unsubscribes:
  “From October 1 through December 15, it is the highest unsubscribe period for any other time of the year... your unsubscribe rates are 230% higher during that period.”
  — Jay Schwedelson [02:22]

• On Welcome Offers and List Quality:
  “Any discounts you’re giving should be better than the welcome offer. Otherwise you’re not going to win.”
  — Daniel Murray [03:17]

• On Not Fearing Seasonal Unsubscribes:
  “If I’m consistently doing content audience matching... I’m not worried.”
  — Daniel Murray [05:17]

• On AI Editing:
  “The drafting process... structure is me. The editing sometimes is AI. So I’m not going to lie and say that it never has AI.”
  — Daniel Murray [06:37]

• On Core List Retention:
  “After 10 months... the retention of audience [is] pretty much the same. The first two to three months, you’re always going to see higher unsubscribes from new people.”
  — Daniel Murray [08:15]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:58 – 02:22: Daniel on fatherhood, AI parenting, and diaper-changing lessons.
• 02:22 – 04:23: Q4 unsubscribe surge—data and economic factors.
• 04:23 – 06:16: Why not to panic; analyzing unsubscribes contextually.
• 06:16 – 08:44: Newsletter unsub patterns, AI accusations, and retention strategy.
• 08:44 – 09:57: Parental boundaries for visitors and closing banter.

Takeaway Summary

• Don’t treat Q4 unsubscribe spikes as failure. They’re seasonal, influenced by deal-chasing and inbox cleanups.
• Audit unsubscribes contextually: Is it your content, or just the time of year?
• Focus on core audience retention. Use unsubscribes as natural list hygiene, not a KPI to avoid at all costs.
• Be authentic in email creation, but don’t be afraid of using AI as a tool for editing.
• Parental and marketer wisdom: Whether it’s changing diapers or drafting campaigns, put in your reps—and don’t be afraid to set boundaries.

For regular, actionable insights and marketing stories, follow The Marketing Millennials and check out Jay’s “Do This, Not That” for more bite-sized tips.