The Marketing Millennials, Episode 374

The Truth About Marketing Ops with Kelly Jo Horton, Head of Lifecycle Marketing Ops at Atlassian
December 12, 2025
Host: Daniel Murray | Guest: Kelly Jo Horton

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the real world of Marketing Operations (“Marketing Ops” or “MOPS”) with Kelly Jo Horton, Head of Lifecycle Marketing Ops at Atlassian. Daniel and Kelly Jo debunk common misconceptions and go deep on what MOPS actually does, how the role has evolved, effective team structures, and practical advice for both MOPS professionals and those who rely on them. With hands-on stories, clear analogies, and actionable insights, this episode is a must-listen for anyone wanting to understand or improve their marketing operations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking Into Marketing Ops (01:15–02:07)

• Accidental Entrances:
  • Both Kelly Jo and Daniel admit that nearly nobody sets out to be in MOPS; people tend to “fall into it by accident.”

    “Does anyone really decide to get into Marketing Ops?... I ended up in marketing operations. Totally by accident.” – Kelly Jo, (01:18)

  • Commonly, careers begin elsewhere (e.g., campaign management, consulting) and transition as needs and skills evolve.

2. What IS Marketing Ops Today? (02:45–06:07)

• Unclear Boundaries & Massive Scope:

  • Once mainly seen as “email people,” MOPS roles are now far broader, underpinning both marketing and sales.
  • MOPS is the backbone for: martech stack, lead flow, data governance, cross-department processes, analytics, and increasingly strategy.

    “Our job descriptions are different at every company. Our responsibilities are different, the lines are really blurry.” – Kelly Jo, (03:23)

  • Success in MOPS requires fluency across tech, marketing, sales, RevOps, and a deep knowledge of the funnel.

• Unicorn Skillset:

  • “It is, it's like a unicorn role... You have to be able to have conversations at the engineering level, you have to be able to have conversations at the executive level.” – Kelly Jo, (05:11)
  • The need to serve multiple stakeholders and keep up with rapid tech changes makes hiring and growing in MOPS uniquely challenging.

3. The Michelin Star Analogy: How to Work With MOPS (06:40–10:13)

• Not a Fast-Food Window:

  • Many stakeholders wrongly think MOPS is like a fast-food drive-thru: “Order an email, get it in 5 minutes.”
  • Reality: MOPS is more like a Michelin-star restaurant, with complex prep, process, and specialized teamwork behind each “dish.”

    “You think that you're ordering fast food...what we actually are, I would say, is a Michelin star restaurant.” – Kelly Jo, (06:40)

  • Every email, automation, or report involves underlying data structures, routing, logic, testing, and cross-team alignment.

• Bring a Complete Request:

  • Success begins when stakeholders treat MOPS as partners, giving clear campaign goals, outcomes, and full context with each ask.
  • It’s critical to set clear success metrics, define needed handoffs (to sales, for example), and communicate fully upfront.

4. Process Over Chaos: MOPS as Mini-Engineering (11:07–15:44)

• Operate Like an Engineering Team:

  • Kelly Jo’s team at Atlassian runs MOPS with “Sprints,” JIRA ticketing, capacity dashboards, and a triage system.

    “If you don't want to just become order takers... you need the data to back up your capacity... run your team like an engineering team.” – Kelly Jo, (12:41)

  • Sprints and capacity planning help defend against “urgent” ad-hoc fires and build trust in the team’s process.

• Mandatory Info, Less Back-And-Forth:

  • Request forms (via JIRA/Confluence) require mandatory information (e.g., campaign links, UTM parameters), saving time and minimizing back-and-forth.

5. Ticketing, Triage, and Automation Details (15:44–20:03)

• Structured Intake Prevents Delays:

  • “If you set up a process where they have to [provide all info up front], that means they have to do some of the lead work upfront and actually understand this is a big deal...” – Daniel, (15:44)
  • Dedicated triage roles prevent tickets from slipping through the cracks, rotate coverage, and maintain team system integrity.

• Slack Bots & AI for Ops:

  • Atlassian’s MOPS team uses Slack bots to answer common questions or escalate to tickets automatically.

6. Integrating AI in MOPS – Speed and Sanity (20:03–24:26)

• AI Agents for FAQs, Data Hygiene, and Learning:
  • AI agents answer repetitive questions (e.g., “Where are my MQLs?”, “Why didn’t this lead convert?”), reducing volume of interruptions.

    “I would love to create an agent to look at these lists and clean them. Things like that I think are really valuable for MOPS, like the...‘digital janitor’ responsibilities.” – Kelly Jo, (21:28)

  • Loom video libraries (with AI-powered search/summaries) and comprehensive documentation in Confluence empower self-serve onboarding and minimize duplicated training effort.

7. The Atlassian Stack for MOPS (24:26–27:07)

• Confluence: The documentation/wiki backbone for all procedures, knowledge, and project histories.
• JIRA: Robust ticketing, sprint planning, triage, assignment, and reporting for all workstreams.
• Loom: On-demand video explainers for visual learners, often embedded in documentation.
• Rovo AI: Unified agent for searching documentation, videos, processes, and tickets across all tools.
• “It’s all searchable with Rovo... Otherwise you’d be sifting through [vast amounts of information]...” – Kelly Jo, (26:26)

8. The Importance of Early Structure & Documentation (28:33–31:13)

• Avoiding Burnout and Chaos:

  • Early investment in documentation and ticketing teaches teams “how to treat you”; this discipline prevents burnout and maintains respect for the MOPS function.
  • All requests must go through a process; MOPS professionals should learn to kindly say "no" or suggest smarter alternatives.

    “The more you do that, the more you are getting people used to the process and they'll start following it.” – Kelly Jo, (16:31)

• Shifting from Order-Taker to Strategic Partner:

  • “If you just take orders...people will treat you like they're in the drive through line at a fast food restaurant. If you serve them a five course Michelin star meal...they'll understand how to work with you better.” – Kelly Jo, (30:03)

9. Ideal MOPS Org Structures (32:29–36:36)

• No One-Size-Fits-All: Org structure should reflect company size, go-to-market model, and maturity.
• Preferred: Centralized, Independent MOPS Teams:
  • MOPS should report independently where possible, not to Demand Gen or RevOps, to avoid biased prioritization and serve business goals (particularly revenue impact) above all else.

    “If you’re big enough and mature enough to have an organization, that organization should be independent of influence for priorities from any of the other teams... Otherwise it just becomes favoritism and the prioritization gets really, really difficult.” – Kelly Jo, (34:10)

  • Use of agency partners for cyclical or overflow work is highly effective.

10. “Marketing Hill to Die On” (37:24–41:06)

• AI Won’t Fix Everything:
  • AI is powerful, but not a panacea: judgment, experience, and process remain core.
• The MQL Is Dead (for Complex Sales):
  • MQL (Marketing Qualified Lead) is a vanity metric:

    “I never thought I would say this but I think the MQL is dead...” – Kelly Jo, (37:28)

  • Focus instead on buying groups, influence mapping, and revenue pipeline, especially in SaaS/complex sales cycles.
  • The right measure is qualified, revenue-generating pipeline, not just hitting MQL targets.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On What Makes MOPS Unique:

  “It’s like a unicorn role...you have to be able to have conversations at the engineering level, you have to be able to have conversations at the executive level.”
  — Kelly Jo, (05:11)

• On Order-Taking vs. Strategic Partnership:

  “If you just take orders...people will treat you like they're in the drive through line...If you serve them a five course Michelin star meal, they're going to understand how to work with you better.”
  — Kelly Jo, (30:03)

• On Documentation and Process:

  “We need structure or it’s chaos all the time.”
  — Kelly Jo, (28:33)

• On Shifting Metrics:

  “The MQL is dead...You’re not selling to one person, you’re selling to a group of people...We have to move away from looking at individuals and start looking at buying groups.”
  — Kelly Jo, (37:28)

• On Saying No:

  "I want you all to learn how to say no in the most respectful way and tell someone why you’re saying no. Don’t just do something because someone asked, ask why."
  — Kelly Jo, (29:45)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:15] – Origin stories: How Kelly Jo and Daniel fell into MOPS
• [02:45] – What is marketing ops today and why every team needs it
• [06:40] – The Michelin star analogy: how MOPS really works behind the scenes
• [11:07] – Running MOPS like an engineering org: sprints, tickets, and structure
• [15:44] – Details of triage, ticket intake, and process setup
• [20:03] – Integrating AI/automation: bots, agents, and digital “janitors”
• [24:26] – Tools in the Atlassian MOPS stack and their purposes
• [28:33] – Why documentation and structure prevent burnout and chaos
• [32:29] – The ideal (and real-world) organization structure for modern MOPS
• [37:24] – The “hill to die on”: AI as a tool, not a savior. Is the MQL dead?

Key Takeaways

• MOPS is misunderstood and undervalued when treated as a simple execution team, not a strategic partner.
• Robust documentation, ticketing, and structured intake processes elevate effectiveness, protect team sanity, and build respect.
• AI (bots, agents) is rapidly changing how MOPS teams operate, but human expertise and process still matter.
• Modern MOPS should focus on revenue impact and buying group influence, not single-lead vanity metrics.
• Set boundaries, communicate clearly, and remember—you’re running a five-star kitchen, not a drive-thru.

For more insights, connect with Kelly Jo Horton on LinkedIn and follow Daniel Murray on Twitter and LinkedIn.