The Truth About Templates | Bathroom Break #67 🚽

Summary

Episode Summary: The Truth About Templates | Bathroom Break #67 🚽

Release Date: August 4, 2025

In this engaging episode of "The Marketing Millennials," host Daniel Murray collaborates with Jay Schwedelson from the "Do This, Not That" podcast to delve into the pervasive use of templates in modern marketing. Titled "The Truth About Templates," this episode offers insightful discussions on the effectiveness, pitfalls, and future of template usage in various marketing channels.

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Introduction to the Bathroom Break Series

[00:02] Daniel Murray:
Daniel opens the episode by introducing the special series "Bathroom Break," a quick 10-minute segment designed to deliver actionable marketing tips. The informal setting encourages marketers to grab a brief moment for learning, even if they're multitasking.

[00:14] Jay Schwedelson:
Jay echoes the casual nature of the series, highlighting the collaborative spirit between their respective podcasts. He sets the stage for an in-depth conversation about templates, emphasizing their ubiquity in marketing strategies.

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The Metaphor of Clothing: Templates in Marketing

[01:07] Daniel Murray:
Daniel draws an analogy between personal clothing choices and marketing templates. He advocates for diversity, stating, “I have probably like two or three of that shirt, but not like my closets. Different colors, different styles...” This highlights the importance of variety and personalization over repetitive use.

[01:21] Jay Schwedelson:
Contrasting Daniel’s approach, Jay admits to favoring uniformity, humorously sharing his preference for multiple identical shirts. This contrast sets up the debate on the merits and drawbacks of using standardized templates.

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Critiquing the Overuse of Templates

[02:24] Daniel Murray:
Daniel expresses skepticism about the widespread use of templates, arguing, “Everybody's doing that...You don't want to do what everybody's doing.” He points out that templates often lead to homogenized content that fails to stand out, diminishing brand uniqueness.

[03:21] Jay Schwedelson:
Jay elaborates on the concept of confirmation bias in template usage. He explains, “You did something new...It did better because you mixed it up...You gotta mix it up.” Jay contends that initial success from using a new template often leads marketers to over-rely on it, eventually resulting in stagnation.

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The Limitations of Canned Templates

[04:11] Daniel Murray:
Daniel differentiates between customizable templates and canned ones offered by platforms. He emphasizes the necessity of creating bespoke templates that align with a brand’s identity: “I would make my own custom newsletter template that fits my brand, fits my vibe.”

[05:09] Jay Schwedelson:
Jay extends the critique beyond formal templates to generic formats, such as typical webinar promotions. He describes the standard visual formula and warns against merely copying industry norms, urging marketers to “stop the scroll” with unique and engaging content.

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Embracing Non-Polished and Personalized Content

[06:00] Daniel Murray:
Daniel advocates for a shift towards authenticity in marketing. He suggests, “Non polished things work...do a non tech a text based email instead of a template email.” Personalized, less structured content can resonate more effectively with audiences compared to generic templates.

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Future of Templates and Technology in Marketing

[07:11] Daniel Murray:
In a brief tangent, Daniel shares his vision for the future of technology in marketing, imagining glasses that can translate languages or analyze environments in real-time. While not directly related to templates, this highlights the ongoing evolution of tools available to marketers.

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Conclusion: Moving Beyond Templates

[08:21] Daniel Murray:
Daniel wraps up by reiterating the importance of moving beyond standard templates. He encourages listeners to engage with "The Marketing Millennials" and the "Bathroom Break" series for more innovative marketing insights.

[08:43] Jay Schwedelson:
Jay concludes with a light-hearted note, reinforcing the episode's main theme: “templates suck. But this podcast doesn't.” He invites listeners to follow his podcast for additional marketing tips.

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Key Takeaways

1. Avoid Over-Reliance on Templates: Standardized templates can lead to content that blends into the vast sea of similar marketing materials, reducing brand differentiation.

2. Emphasize Personalization: Custom templates that reflect a brand’s unique voice and style are more effective in engaging audiences.

3. Beware of Confirmation Bias: Initial success from a new template can create a false sense of effectiveness, hindering long-term innovation and adaptability.

4. Embrace Authenticity: Non-polished and personalized content often resonates more deeply with audiences compared to highly structured, template-based materials.

5. Innovate Beyond Conventional Formats: Marketers should strive to create unique content formats that stand out and capture audience attention amidst the constant influx of similar marketing messages.

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Notable Quotes:

• Daniel Murray [02:24]: “Everybody's doing that...You don't want to do what everybody's doing.”

• Jay Schwedelson [03:21]: “You did something new...It did better because you mixed it up...You gotta mix it up.”

• Daniel Murray [06:00]: “Non polished things work...do a non tech a text based email instead of a template email.”

• Jay Schwedelson [05:09]: “stop the scroll on social media in email...it is a recipe to nowheresville.”

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This episode serves as a crucial reminder for marketers to prioritize originality and authenticity over convenience. By moving beyond generic templates and embracing personalized content strategies, brands can achieve more meaningful engagement and sustained success.

Transcript

[Daniel Murray]

Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom break. That extra 10 minutes you either have to listen to marking tips or use the bathroom. Or both. But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.

[Jay Schwedelson]

This collab is going to be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials and me, Jay Schwedelson from the do this, not that podcast and subjectline.com each episode in the series, we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine, just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out. We are back for the bathroom break. I'm here with Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials. And I'm Jay Schwedelson from Do this. Not that we're going to be talking about templates today, if they're good, bad social media, email, you name it. But before we do that, along those lines, Daniel, when you, like, find a shirt that you like, like, oh, I just want to buy this new shirt from Lululemon. Do you just get a bunch of the same shirt and then you rock that as if it's like a template in your marketing or you, you like to have a mixed bag in your. In your closet.

[Daniel Murray]

Mixed bag, mixed bag. I don't have the. I probably have, like, probably like two or three of that shirt, but not like my closets. Different colors, different styles, different. It's not the same day.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Oh, I'm the exact opposite. If I find a shirt that I like and Allie is not, it's so annoying. Like, I'll just get like a bunch of even the same color, which makes no sense. Like, I have three long sleeve black aloe shirts and those are the best. Yeah, they're so comfortable.

[Daniel Murray]

I'm wearing aloe right now.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah, it's the best. And then she's like, you can't wear that all the time. That's ridiculous. I'm like, but why? So you're down on templates as a human?

[Daniel Murray]

Yes, I'm down. They do make things easier, but there's reasons why not.

[Jay Schwedelson]

All right, fair enough. All right, let's get into the episode here. Templates. Every company, business, consumer, whatever, you're like, oh, we got to mix it up. We need new templates. Let's go into our email sending platform. Let's go on Canva. Let's go here, there, wherever, and we get a template and then we start using the template. Because why? We think it looks nicer. It looks so slick. It's what got it checks all the boxes for best practices. Daniel, is this the way that we.

[Daniel Murray]

Should be doing it? Should be.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Should we using templates that are out there available to us?

[Daniel Murray]

My quick answer is no, because everybody's doing that like you in marketing. You don't want to do what everybody's doing. And I, I feel like we've templates 10 years ago were different than like, like using 10 to 10 user goes different than using it now because there's a lot of different ways to do it in a cheap way to get better templates. So I think if you want to blend in and also I think subconsciously as humans we turn tune out templates. So if you scroll your, your LinkedIn feed, your Instagram, if you see a canva templated like scroll through, you kind of tune that out. The other thing I think it really limits for me is like personalization of your brand. Like your brand has some sort of voice, some sort of tone and the template is templated to like the most common denominator and you don't want to be the most common nominate when you're sending out emails or doing social posts.

[Jay Schwedelson]

I totally agree and I think one of the biggest problem with templates in general, regardless of the media, social media, email doesn't matter. Here's what happens in your organization. You're like, oh, we need it, we need to freshen up our thing and okay, and you get a template from wherever and use it. And then here's what happens. It does really well. Oh, our newsletter did so much better. Or we got so much more engagement on the social post with this new template. The template is amazing. Wrong. What happened was you did something new, right? You mixed it up. You did something that stood out for the first time. It's this idea of confirmation bias that you think because it worked that you should double down on and then you roll with that for the next six months and then you wind up in the gutter again with horrible performance. So it's not a matter of you pick the world's greatest template. That's why it did better. It did better because you mixed it up. And that's the key thing. You gotta mix it up.

[Daniel Murray]

But I will add what I am anti is canned templates, like ones that the platform serves to you. Like I think if you can own like an email style with flexibility, like but if you can own a template that are your brand colors like your like how you do it like with newsletters, I feel like you have to show up consistently to look the same because you have to. But I will never, would never. For news that I pull out the newsletter template in Pardot, for example, I would not go. I would make my own custom newsletter template that fits my brand, fits my vibe, fits what I'm trying to do, this newsletter and if it does, if I want to do something different, I'll build a new section in that newsletter. I could change up the template and make it different, but I'm talking about using canned templates that everybody's using when they not developing your own template.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah, and it's also not just actual templates, it's copying what everybody does. So for example, if I said to you in your mind right now, maybe you're walking, maybe you're driving, maybe whatever. I want you to imagine what a email promotion for a webinar looks like. Doesn't matter the company or the topic. What it probably looks like in your head is two circles of people's faces that nobody knows who they really are except for their moms. Okay? Some boring headline and like a blue background. And that is what every webinar promo looks like, whether it's on social media or email, whatever. And that's not a template, that's a format that everyone just copies. And that's what you want to get away from. Also you want to stop the scroll on social media in email, whatever it is. And if you're just copying everybody else's playbook, it is a recipe to nowheresville.

[Daniel Murray]

Yeah, I'll add on that. I mean having a template on social media, for example, like right now we're in a age where like non polished things work. So like for example, Jay does this really well with your emails and you can do this as any brand is like do a non tech a text based email instead of a template email. Like you don't have to have all your promotions. Emails don't need to be a certain email template. You could do a promotions email that looks like it came from the founder, it looks like it came from the head of the marketing, looks like it came from someone in the company. It doesn't have to be template same as social. Like things that a template style are not going to work as well as like someone talking to a camera or something. Someone like that. Templates is just a way to get started for a lot of people. So you, if you're doing nothing, it's better than doing nothing. But do more if you're trying to stand out and be different.

[Jay Schwedelson]

All right, super random question before we wrap up. This is the most bizarre thing. So me and Daniel actually recording in front of each other live right now. And Daniel's wearing glasses. What is your take on the eye glasses? Like, the meta glasses? Do you want to get a pair of glasses that you could ask random questions to, or is that not something you ever want to do?

[Daniel Murray]

It's. I think what I want to eventually do is, like, I feel like the what would be cool is, like, glasses that if someone's speaking another language, like, translates in front of you or, like, analyzes your environment. You know, like the spy movies where it's like, oh, this is like, you.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Can analyze, like, Iron Man.

[Daniel Murray]

Yeah. So I think that. But I think there's a. It's a couple years away to that. But I wear contacts and glasses, so if I can get mine better in any way, I'm down to do that.

[Jay Schwedelson]

I think it'd be cool, you just walking around like, hey, hey, what's the weather going to be in two hours? I don't know. So you should. You should rock those glasses. All right, I don't know what we talked about, as usual, but templates suck. But this podcast doesn't. So leave Daniel a review at the Marketing Millennials, or leave me a review it. Do this, not that. We'll check you at the next one later. Daniel, come on, man. I gotta get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast, do this, not that, for For Marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.

[Daniel Murray]

Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Market Millennials podcast, but also tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email, subject line to any marking tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a. A shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Later.