The Marketing Millennials — Episode 353

What It Means to Be Audience-First in Marketing
Guest: Rachel Waldstein, VP of Global Strategic Consulting at Wunderkind
Host: Daniel Murray
Date: October 1, 2025

Brief Overview

In this engaging episode, Daniel Murray sits down with Rachel Waldstein from Wunderkind to dig deep into the real meaning of being “audience-first” in marketing for 2025. They explore the ongoing tension between personalization and privacy, maximizing first-party data, mistakes marketers still make with data, and the critical omnichannel shift redefining performance marketing. With actionable insights, lively anecdotes, and a no-nonsense take, both dig into where AI, identity graphs, and new integrations (like with Meta) are supercharging customer engagement at scale.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Balancing Personalization and Privacy in 2025

• Staying Up to Date with Privacy

  • Marketers must keep abreast of evolving privacy laws and industry player actions (e.g., Apple, Google) ([02:30]).
  • Essential to understand not just regulations but what information customers willingly share.

• Building Trust Through Transparency

  • Personalization hinges on consumer trust; customers are willing to share data for a better experience but only when brands handle privacy respectfully ([03:20]).
  • Marketers should use shared data to enhance experiences, not invade privacy.

• Adapting to Platform Changes

  • Changes like Apple's reduction of attribution windows (28 to 7 days) disrupt tracking and require marketers to shift KPIs and strategies ([04:23]).
  • “Open rate is now, it’s a directional metric…as marketers, it’s about shifting what you’re looking at.” — Rachel ([04:23])

Value and Activation of First-Party Data

• Understanding and Leveraging First-Party Data

  • First-party data encompasses all behaviors, preferences, and opt-ins provided directly by the customer ([05:43]).
  • Success lies in aligning this data with the customer’s journey and brand experience.

• Common Data Mistakes

  • Marketers often try to force their own desired behaviors onto consumers instead of building on existing customer behavior ([06:50]).
  • Example: Pushing for fewer promotions when consumers are not yet ready to abandon discounts.

“Building on an existing behavior is a million times easier than creating a behavior out of your consumer base.” — Rachel ([06:50])

The Omnichannel Imperative

• From Single to Multi-Channel Journeys
  • Modern customer journeys span email, SMS, social, and more—seamless and succinct storytelling across channels is critical ([09:19]).
  • Marketers can’t control which channel/step converts the prospect, so every touch must reinforce brand and product.

“It would be completely naive now to think that consumers were absolutely just logging in and so excited to hear every part of the…consumer journey through…an 11-touch email series.” — Rachel ([09:19])

• AI Orchestration
  • AI enables brands to tailor not just messaging, but also the optimal channel and timing for each segment ([08:13]).
  • Less “one-size-fits-all,” more dynamic, data-driven journeys.

Paid Social’s Next Big Shift

• From Broad to Identity-Based Targeting
  • Instead of treating all prospects or all customers the same, advances in identity resolution allow for more granular targeting ([12:30]).
  • Marketers can now vary budget/frequency/spend based on the predicted value and journey stage of each consumer.

Wunderkind’s Meta Integration

• Why Now?

  • Extension of proven email/SMS personalization logic to paid social, leveraging Wunderkind’s 9 billion-device identity graph ([13:56], [16:51]).
  • Enables truly differentiated messaging and ad spend allocation for prospects vs. existing customers.

• Solving the Black Hole of Anonymous Browsers

  • 95% of visitors leave sites anonymously, representing lost opportunity ([15:01]).
  • Integration allows brands to identify, segment, and target even those anonymous visitors across Meta, boosting incremental revenue.

• Ease of Use

  • Audience uploads/synchronization in Meta Ads Manager remains as simple as other platforms ([19:11]).

“It’s the identity graph…about you knowing who your consumer is at a much higher rate. Not hitting everybody that hits this product page with the same remarketing message.” — Rachel ([16:51])

The Key to Doing Personalization Right: Knowing Your Customer

• Moving Beyond Personas
  • True personalization requires identifying real people, not just targeting broad segments or personas ([18:22]).
  • Enables AI and marketers to serve content that aligns with preferences, journey stage, and value.

“Otherwise…they are a Persona to the brand. And consumers, yes, fall within that Persona, but you can only personalize to a certain degree at that scale.” — Rachel ([18:22])

• Turning Lurkers into Revenue
  • Large volumes of traffic remain anonymous or under-identified; tech like Wunderkind helps convert these lurkers into customers, closing the gap ([20:25]).

Audience-First is Marketer-First

• Rachel’s Marketing Hill to Die On

  • “You can’t get a consumer to exhibit a behavior that they’re not willing to exhibit.” ([21:36])
  • Building marketing journeys and objectives should always start with respecting real customer intent and limits, not internal business desires ([23:06]).

• Business-Focused vs. Audience-Focused

  • The best marketers build for and speak to their audience’s needs, not just business KPIs. Short-term tactics to game open/click rates miss the point if they erode trust ([22:00]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Privacy & Personalization:

  “Consumers are willing to share so much information with us. And it’s about using that to drive their experiences, not about digging a little bit deeper and getting to details that they’re not interested in sharing.” — Rachel ([02:30])

• On Data-Driven Experiences:

  “The biggest hurdle of marketers today is that desired state versus reality.” — Rachel ([07:53])

• On Omnichannel Reality:

  “We need to do it in a way that is succinct because we are getting very little of their attention and cohesive, regardless of the order that they choose to engage with us in.” — Rachel ([09:19])

• On AI’s Role:

  “Now I just need to develop the content that tells the most engaging story…and AI can now select for you what is that product.” — Rachel ([11:46])

• On Changing Paid Social:

  “For me…that’s a really exciting part to say. We no longer need to treat these large groups of people exactly the same on social platform or everybody that visits our site identically.” — Rachel ([13:41])

• On Identity Graphs:

  “It is about you knowing who your consumer is at a much higher rate…not about hitting everybody that hits this product page with…remarketing message. It’s about talking about these people [with] this behavior.” — Rachel ([16:51])

• On Audience Focus:

  “The best marketers I know are audience-focused, not business-focused.” — Daniel ([22:00])

Important Timestamps

• [02:30] Navigating personalization & privacy post-2025
• [03:20, 04:23] Trust, privacy updates, and shifting KPIs
• [05:43] First-party data activation for better journeys
• [06:50] Common data mistakes: business goals vs. actual consumer behavior
• [09:19] Why omnichannel experiences and concise storytelling are now vital
• [12:30] Future of performance marketing in paid social: identity-based targeting
• [13:56, 16:51] Wunderkind’s Meta integration & identity graph leverage
• [18:22] Personalization, personas, and the power of identity resolution
• [21:36] Marketing hill to die on: “You can’t force a behavior.”
• [22:00-24:22] Practical case for always leading with the audience

Summary Tone

The episode is direct, practical, and rich with examples—a blend of marketing strategy, tech-forward thinking, and honest caveats. Rachel brings a candid, audience-first lens to every topic, echoing Daniel’s no-BS ethos.

Where to Find More

• Learn more about Wunderkind and Rachel:
  • Website: wunderkind.co
  • Rachel on LinkedIn: Rachel Waldstein

Conclusion:
This episode delivers a masterclass on why knowing your customer is the ultimate growth hack in 2025—and how tools like AI and identity graphs finally let marketers act on audience signals at scale. The take-home? Build on customer willingness, make every channel count, and never chase metrics at the audience’s expense.