Podcast Summary: The Marketing Millennials
Episode: Why Messaging Falls Flat (And How to Fix It) with Emma Stratton, Founder of Punchy | Ep. 341
Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Tamara Gorminski (guest hosting for Daniel Murray)
Guest: Emma Stratton, Founder of Punchy, author of Make It Punchy
Episode Overview
This episode dives deeply into the root causes of flat, ineffective messaging in tech and B2B marketing, exploring how brands can craft messaging that connects with buyers on a human level. Tamara Gorminski interviews Emma Stratton, a noted messaging expert and founder of Punchy, discussing frameworks, real-life analogies, and practical approaches to evolving from "feature-first" to "value-first" communication. They also cover Emma’s famous “barbecue test” for killing jargon, talk about the impact of AI on messaging, and share candid insights on the marketer-to-founder journey.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Why Messaging Falls Flat
- Overly Inward Focus: Messaging often fails when it's “too inward facing, too focused on the product, the technology, and not enough on why a buyer or a prospect should care.” (Emma, [01:55])
- Misjudging Audience Awareness: Marketers and product teams often overestimate how much the customer knows or cares about nuanced features, leading to messaging that’s “far too advanced for the audience.” (Emma, [02:48])
2. The VBF Model: Value, Benefit, Feature
- Concept Explained: Emma advocates for the “outside in” approach—messaging that leads with the big win (Value), followed by the Benefit (the new superpower), and only then the Feature (the secret weapon).
- Inside-out: Feature → Benefit → Value (FBV)
- Outside-in: Value → Benefit → Feature (VBF)
- Why Order Matters: “The people you're messaging to, they're not experts like you are... so they can't just dive straight into the feature.” (Emma, [04:34])
Star Wars Analogy ([08:09]):
- Feature: The Force
- Benefit: “Do crazy backflips, change people’s minds, fly a plane upside down...”
- Value: Defeat Darth Vader and bring peace to the galaxy
- Quote: “Luke Skywalker couldn't just say, hey, it'll help you fly a plane... he'd have to say, hey, this is actually going to help us defeat Darth Vader and bring peace to the galaxy.” (Emma, [09:52])
Blender Example ([10:48]):
- Feature: Commercial grade blades
- Benefit: Make smoothies in a snap
- Value: Eat healthier every day
- VBF Headline: “Eat healthier every day.”
- FBV Headline: “Commercial grade blades.”
3. Who Are You Writing For?
- Champion vs. Buyer vs. User: The messaging should primarily target the “champion,” the person most motivated to drive the purchase—even if others (e.g., CEO, IT director) have sign-off power.
- Practical Application: “Focus on the person who is most... bought in into the process. They're the ones that are like talking internally, selling internally.” (Emma, [13:13])
4. The Barbecue Test: Killing Jargon with Casual Language
- Origin: Emma can’t recall exactly when she coined it, but her mantra is about keeping messaging real and approachable.
- “Say it like you would at a barbecue.” (Emma, [16:35])
- How to Apply: If a statement is full of jargon, imagine explaining it to a friend at a barbecue. The result is almost always simpler, clearer, and more effective.
- “There's something about that mental model... giving them permission to be like, okay, let's just get casual. Like, let's take off the tie.” (Emma, [17:33])
- Practical Example: Swapping “scalable strategic solution” for whatever you would actually say in real life.
5. Human Messaging and the Role of AI
- AI as a Thought Partner, Not a Replacement: Emma and Tamara both value AI for ideation and brainstorming, but not for finished copy.
- “I love it as a thought partner... but every single time I have tried to use it to write... it doesn't sound like me.” (Tamara, [22:43])
- The ‘Intern’ Analogy: “ChatGPT is an eager intern... The first week, that intern is amazing. But then when you go deeper, you realize... they don’t actually know what that word means.” (Tamara, [25:05])
- Knowing What “Good” Looks Like: Emma emphasizes the importance of having a clear vision and standards, so AI outputs can be effectively directed and edited.
- “Messaging is a manifestation of a strategy... so that has that foundation, and then sure, you can let AI just do a million revisions until you like what you see...” (Emma, [25:44])
6. From Marketer to Founder: Mindset Shifts
- The Entrepreneurial Leap: The biggest challenge is leaving behind the employee mindset in favor of a “business owner” mentality.
- “You get this feeling of like, oh, it's on me. I'm not just gonna get a paycheck, like I have to generate the paycheck.” (Emma, [26:37])
- Personal Development: “Entrepreneurship pushes you... personal development just goes hand in hand with entrepreneurship.” (Emma, [28:37])
- Advice for Aspiring Founders: “You don’t have to just take a leap off a cliff. There’s safe ways that you can make steps towards that.” (Emma, [29:44])
7. The Final Hill: Strategy Before Messaging
- Marketing Hill to Die On: “There is no messaging in the world that is so good that it will cover up a flawed or non-existent strategy.” (Emma, [29:57])
- Elaboration: If your positioning or ideal customer target is unclear, “messaging becomes wishy washy... But everyone loves to attack the messaging and be like, oh, Chase's headline. Like, why isn't this good?” (Emma, [30:10])
Notable Quotes
- Emma Stratton:
- “The number one reason messaging falls flat is because it's too inward facing... and not enough on why a buyer or a prospect should care.” ([01:55])
- “Imagine you're at a barbecue talking to a smart friend. How would you explain what you mean by this scalable strategic solution?” ([17:33])
- “There is no messaging in the world that is so good that it will cover up a flawed or non existent strategy.” ([29:57])
- Tamara Gorminski:
- “Every single time I have tried to use [AI] to write... it doesn't sound like me... I immediately feel it when it's not human.” ([22:43])
- “The first week that intern is there... you’re going to, wow, this is amazing. But then when you spend just 10 minutes going a level deeper, you’re going to realize... they don't actually know.” ([25:05])
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [01:55] — Biggest reason messaging falls flat
- [04:34] — VBF (Value, Benefit, Feature) explained
- [08:09] — Star Wars analogy: feature vs. benefit vs. value
- [10:48] — Blender/Vitamix real-world VBF example
- [13:13] — Who should we write messaging for? Champion, buyer, user?
- [16:35] — The barbecue test: origins and application
- [21:54] — Emma’s thoughts on AI and human messaging
- [22:43] — Tamara on AI-generated copy and the "human" feel
- [25:05] — The “eager intern” analogy for AI
- [26:37] — From marketer to entrepreneur: mindset shift & personal growth
- [29:57] — The marketing hill to die on: messaging can't fix bad strategy
Memorable Moments
- The Star Wars explanation—making a strong case for value-led messaging using iconic pop culture.
- Emma’s barbecue test and the instant “deflation” of jargon when forced to explain it conversationally.
- The mutual skepticism (and practical tips) around leveraging AI for copywriting—especially the eager intern metaphor.
- Emma’s candid reflection on the personal journey from employee to business owner.
Additional Resources
- Emma Stratton’s Book: Make It Punchy
- Connect with Emma: LinkedIn (Emma Stratton), Punchy consultancy
- Host Links: Tamara Gorminski, PMM Camp