Episode 11 - The Big Beautiful Bill

Summary

Interrupted by Matt Jones – Episode 11: The Big Beautiful Bill

Release Date: July 10, 2025
Host: Matt Jones
Guest: Billy Rutledge

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Introduction

In the eleventh episode of Interrupted by Matt Jones, host Matt Jones delves into the recently passed budget bill, controversially dubbed "the Big Beautiful Bill" by former President Donald Trump. Despite the seemingly positive moniker, Jones and his guest, Billy Rutledge, dissect the bill's implications, revealing a multitude of contentious provisions that could have far-reaching effects on various facets of American society.

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Understanding the Budget Bill

Matt Jones begins by addressing the peculiar name of the budget bill, noting, “I find it hilarious that he just named it something stupid and then everybody just went with it” (00:00). He emphasizes that while budget bills are routine, the current iteration is uniquely problematic. The bill encompasses a wide range of issues, many of which are inherently negative, and Jones expresses concern over the lack of bipartisan effort in its creation.

Process and Political Maneuvers

Jones explains the evolving nature of the budget process, highlighting the decline of bipartisanship: “Over the years, as bipartisanship has kind of gone away, it's become basically the leadership of the House and the leadership of the Senate just get together and do it” (05:20). This shift has led to a scenario where a small group of committee chairs, their staff, and lobbyists craft comprehensive bills without extensive input from the broader legislative body.

He further critiques the Hastert Rule, which dictates that bills must have majority support within the controlling party to pass, effectively sidelining the minority party and reducing legislative transparency.

Key Provisions and Their Impact

Tax Cuts on Tips and Overtime

One of the bill's provisions lowers taxes on tips for workers who earn tips via cash, capping the tax exemption at $25,000 for tips and $12,500 for overtime (12:16). While intended to benefit service industry workers, Jones points out the limited scope, noting, “A lot of servers who get tips in cash never declared them anyway” (11:53). The cap is designed to offset the government’s costs, but its actual impact is minimal.

Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security Funding

Approximately 70% of the government’s budget is allocated to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and defense. Jones highlights the political difficulty in altering these areas due to their significant voter base, particularly among the elderly: “People do not like to cut Medicare” (09:04). Consequently, the bill focuses on Medicaid, creating substantial cuts and imposing stringent work requirements.

Medicaid Cuts and the Impact on Healthcare

The bill introduces work requirements for Medicaid recipients, aiming to reduce government expenditure. However, Jones and Rutledge argue that these requirements are impractical and lead to increased administrative costs: “30% of the money that's been saved by these work requirements will be used to fund the people to find out whether or not these folks are working” (15:33). The removal of Medicaid benefits threatens rural hospitals, potentially causing closures and forcing healthcare costs to rise for insured individuals.

Jones elaborates on the broader implications: “If you make $80,000 a year... your child's yearly loan payment will now be two and a half times higher than it was before” (38:43), emphasizing the detrimental effect on middle-class families and the healthcare system.

Tax Cuts for the Wealthy

The bill extends tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, a move Jones criticizes as ineffective for stimulating the economy: “The trickle-down theory... has never worked” (31:08). He argues that such tax cuts do not translate into domestic investment or job creation, especially in a globalized economy where wealthy individuals can invest abroad.

National Debt Concerns

An alarming aspect of the bill is its impact on the national debt. Jones states, “This bill raises the debt by more than any bill in the history of America, by 25%. It is a $4 trillion a year addition to the debt” (34:46). He warns of long-term consequences, projecting that debt payments could consume 6% of the GDP by 2040, posing significant economic threats for future generations.

Increased ICE Funding

The budget allocates triple the current funding to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), surpassing the budgets of the FBI and CIA combined: “They are tripling the amount of money that goes to ICE. There will now be more ICE agents in America than FBI law enforcement” (36:55). Jones criticizes this expansion, questioning the necessity given the enhanced border security already achieved.

Student Debt Policies

The bill reverses previous student debt relief measures, removing lower interest rates for middle-income earners: “Everybody will get the interest rate of the market, which means rich people will get a lower interest rate than middle-class people” (38:43). This change increases financial burdens on families, potentially stifling economic growth as individuals divert funds to higher loan repayments instead of consumer spending.

Clean Energy Funding Cuts

Jones laments the removal of tax credits for clean energy, arguing it hinders America’s ability to compete globally: “China is producing its own energy at unbelievable levels... We are so far behind them” (43:51). He advocates for investment in solar and wind energy to reduce dependence on foreign oil and promote sustainable growth, particularly in coal-dependent regions.

Other Budget Cuts and Exemptions

The bill imposes severe cuts on various government agencies and programs:

• Appalachian Regional Commission: Funding reduced from $250 million to $12 million, impacting economic development in Appalachia.
• Social Security and Veterans Administration: Support systems face significant staff reductions, degrading service quality (47:00).
• Exemptions for Specific States: Senators like Lisa Murkowski secured exemptions for their states (e.g., Alaska), enabling their support despite overall bill shortcomings.

Political Responses and Reactions

Jones highlights the self-serving nature of some legislators, who vote for the bill while seeking exemptions for their constituencies. For instance, Senator Lisa Murkowski from Alaska supported the bill but secured a provision exempting her state, raising questions about the bill's overall efficacy and fairness: “She got a provision put in the bill so it doesn't apply to Alaska” (49:31).

Similarly, Senator Josh Hawley expressed post-vote regret, acknowledging the bill’s adverse effects on rural Americans despite initially supporting it for political reasons.

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Conclusions and Final Thoughts

Both Matt Jones and Billy Rutledge express deep concerns about the budget bill, labeling it as potentially the worst in recent history. They emphasize that the bill disproportionately affects the most vulnerable populations, including the working poor and rural communities. Jones urges listeners to look beyond partisan lines and critically assess the bill’s contents rather than relying on party affiliations.

Rutledge concurs, stating, “I would say no at this point” (53:46), underscoring the need for informed opposition based on the bill’s tangible impacts rather than political allegiance.

Notable Quotes

• Matt Jones (00:00): “I find it hilarious that he just named it something stupid and then everybody just went with it.”

• Billy Rutledge (02:34): “The initial thought was kind of like how you started with what a ridiculous name.”

• Matt Jones (08:39): “It is very devious.”

• Billy Rutledge (12:16): “Why do they cap it like that?”

• Matt Jones (34:46): “This bill raises the debt by more than any bill in the history of America, by 25%.”

• Matt Jones (43:51): “China is producing its own energy at unbelievable levels... We are so far behind them.”

• Matt Jones (54:09): “This one will be bad. This might be the worst budget we've had in a long time.”

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Final Remarks

The "Big Beautiful Bill" presents a complex mix of policy changes that, according to Matt Jones and Billy Rutledge, lean heavily towards detrimental outcomes for the majority of Americans. From undermining essential healthcare services to exacerbating the national debt and hindering clean energy progress, the bill's provisions spark significant controversy. The episode serves as a compelling call to listeners to engage critically with legislative developments and advocate for policies that genuinely benefit the populace.

Transcript

[Matt Jones]

This is Interrupted by Matt Jones on Newsradio 840. WHAS now, here's Matt Jones. Welcome episode 11 of Interrupted by Matt Jones. We are here on podcast and on WH 8.40am thank you guys very much. We finally got the new name actually situated. It is now called Interrupted by Matt Jones. And I think that's a better name because honestly, most of the people that we have on I end up interrupting, which hopefully I've gotten better at. But you know what, I'm not sure. So there was a lot of stuff. By the way, we are presented by Cornbread Hemp. This is the good life. Thanks to our friends at Cornbread Hemp. And there's a lot of stuff we could go on about today. But you know, if you followed the news over the last couple of weeks, I think the most important thing is probably the budget bill that was passed last week as Trump called it the big Beautiful bill. I do find it hilarious that he just named it something stupid and then everybody just went with it. Like even in the mainstream press, they call it the big beautiful Bill. Like that is an official name for the budget, but it is actually just the budget bill. It's just what you do. Presidents do this usually every two years in order to pass a budget. And I thought today we'd go into a little bit about sort of what is in it. And also, you know What? I think 90% of it is a negative. But I think it's important for people to understand why it's a negative. Sometimes it's just people in politics go, well, this is bad. Why is it bad? Because I'm a Democrat and you're a Republican and it's your bill. It's bad. I think it's important for people to understand what's in it and how it ended up coming about. Because a lot of how we got to this point is an example of what's wrong with politics in general and how we pass laws in general. So I'm going to use my friend Billy, our sports Billy Rutledge, to sort of talk about this bill through. So let me start with this, Billy, because you follow the news, but I'm sure didn't follow the details of the passing, et cetera. So if I were to give you a big picture, when you heard about this and you heard it passed, what was your, what was your initial thought and what would you say you knew about it just from following the regular news?

[Billy Rutledge]

The initial thought was kind of like how you started with what a ridiculous name. This is off the bat one Big Beautiful Bill. You can call me that if you want to instead of Billy, but, yeah.

[Matt Jones]

I'm not going to call you Big beautiful Bill. I'm sorry, that's not going to happen. No.

[Billy Rutledge]

That's disappointing. Well, at the same time, I could say, I don't know a ton of the specifics. I know a lot of the general generalities. So, like, did it seem like when.

[Matt Jones]

You knew the generalities, that you thought it was a positive?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, you know, for some of my friends that are waitresses and waiters, I thought the thing on tip sounds great. You know, when it comes to things like, you know, there were some specifics about space programs and the Golden Dome missile defense systems. I like those things. But when I saw the cuts to Medicaid, I've heard you talk about rural hospitals being impacted in a big way, then it made me think that maybe this isn't the best thing.

[Matt Jones]

So you say, overall, if I asked you a question on a poll, are you in favor or against it? What would you have said?

[Billy Rutledge]

Not. Don't know enough about it to have.

[Matt Jones]

No. No. Okay. Well, that's a good answer. I mean, I think I saw a poll that said 29% of Americans were in favor, like something like 54% against. And then there was a group of maybe 17 or 18 that were don't know. You would be a don't know. And I don't think there's anything wrong being a don't know if you don't know. So let me. Let's go over and I, as we go through, Billy, I'd love to hear your reactions on this stuff because I think a lot of people don't sort of know a lot of this. So let's just start with what the bill is. Every two years, in order for the government to exist, they have to pass a budget. And budgets are passed by Congress, specifically, budgets are written by the House of Representatives. That's in the Constitution. And so everything the government funds has to go through the budget. So it determines everything from Social Security to the national defense. Whatever it is, it has to go through through the budget process. And the budget process historically was something that both parties kind of tried to agree on. They all figured out what they wanted in the budget. They took stuff in, they took stuff out. But over the years, as bipartisanship has kind of gone away, it's become basically the leadership of the House and the leadership of the Senate just get together and do it. As a matter of fact, most of the bill is only written By a handful of people, the committee chairs and their staff and lobbyist. So most people in Congress, I think, if you held them under oath, don't even read the. Billy, I think you saw it was 900 pages long. Do you think many people in the House and Senate read all 900 pages?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, if any, but I think that's ridiculous that they can vote on things that they haven't read prior. That seems like a gap.

[Matt Jones]

Let me explain why that happens. Because it happens because of kind of the breakdown of our political process. So for a bill to pass in the House, all it needs is a majority. But over the years, something called the Hastert Rule has begun to apply, which says they won't pass a bill unless the party in control is a majority for it. So basically, on the House side, whether it's the Republicans or Democrats, whoever's in charge of the House, they decide the minority party basically gets nothing. So when you're in the minority in the House, you're basically worthless. But in the Senate, on all bills, Billy, you have to get 60 votes to avoid a filibuster. Right? So 51 wins, but you get 60 to avoid a filibuster. However, there is one exception to that, and the one exception is something called reconciliation, which is boring. I won't explain what it is, but the budget can actually be passed without 60 votes. Now, why does that matter? Well, it matters because you don't have to be bipartisan. And, Billy, because it's the only type of bill that does not have a potential filibuster, you have an incentive to pack everything you don't think would pass regularly into that bill. You only have to get 51 votes for that. For other things, you might have to get 60. And so there is an incentive for politicians to, if they have something that's kind of unpopular or maybe even very unpopular, throw it in that bill, make it 900 pages. People want the budget to be passed, and then all of a sudden, it'll get through. So what ends up happening is, at least in my experience, the worst parts of what government does happens in the budget bill because you don't need as many votes to do it. Now, Billy, I think that's awful. And one thing. Yes, it's. It is. Oh, it's very devious. And what ends up happening is during the process where they write it, it's happening very quickly. It's usually in, like, a week. It's like a kid who turns his paper in late, you know, and he's scrambling in the last day. Or two. And that's when people can sneak in provisions that they want and they hope nobody reads them. So, for instance, in the big budget bill, there was a provision that took away the tax on sun tanning beds. My guess is, and I don't know this, there's somebody in either the House or Senate who really likes to tan or who owns sun tanning beds and wanted it taken out. And you know what? People are in a rush to pass the bill and they just go, is it worth ruining this bill for sun tanning beds? So for people like Thomas Massie and Rand Paul on the conservative side and even people like AOC on the liberal side, the budget bill really infuriates them because it gives people an incentive. It gives people an incentive to do the worst things. It gives them an incentive to put in the worst parts of bills into one bill. And Billy, when I tell you that, does that not seem ridiculous?

[Billy Rutledge]

No. No, it doesn't.

[Matt Jones]

Like it doesn't seem ridiculous or it does.

[Billy Rutledge]

No, it does. It does seem ridiculous. It does not seem like something that should be going on. I use the word devious a second ago because it feels like, you know, with a lower amount of vote totals and a focus on other things that you could get whatever you want in whatever personal interest you have, whatever tanning bed.

[Matt Jones]

You know, I would love for the.

[Billy Rutledge]

The tips thing to go forward, but the fact ICE is getting so much.

[Matt Jones]

Exactly.

[Billy Rutledge]

Funding.

[Matt Jones]

So like there might be people out there who. Who are for the TIPS thing, not for the ICE thing. And the idea is if we put them both in this bill, maybe they'll just both vote for it. Cause they don't have a choice. Or vote against it because they don't have a choice. So it is very devious. And here's what's even worse. Guess how many bills the House and Senate have passed together up through July 1, when they did the budget.

[Billy Rutledge]

Before the budget, They've probably passed a few.

[Matt Jones]

What if I told you zero.

[Billy Rutledge]

Zero. They've got nothing done.

[Matt Jones]

Zero. Zero. This is it. And the reason is because they understand that the incentive now is to just do it through that. Just everything you want to do, do it through the budget. So as a fundamental thing, whether you're for the bill or not, it is wrong for democracy that we pass everything in one bill. I'm with Thomas Massey, which is a sentence I don't say a lot, but Thomas Massie says, I think everything should be its own bill. You want to. You want to give tax breaks on tip. It's A bill you want to fund ice triple the time it was before. It's a bill you want to cut Medicaid, it's a bill. And then everybody votes on each one. To me, that needs to happen. Now, obviously, things might be combined if it's one particular area, but the idea that you would throw in tanning beds, ice tips, defense systems, and all of that, Billy, into one bill is ridiculous in my opinion. But it's what we do.

[Billy Rutledge]

So because they have, they can get a lower vote total to pass it. That's why it's all.

[Matt Jones]

That's why everything is in one, everything. So these bills become the most important. That bill will be the most important thing the US Senate and House do in the first two years of Trump's presidency. And it had almost no transparency. And I think even the leaders did not read it. That should infuriate people. Infuriates me. And I think it would infuriate most Americans if they knew it, but most people don't know it. So then. All right, so what did the bill do? Well, let's start with a couple things that Billy said that I'm not going to say. I'm against everything it did. Lower the tax on tips for people who make tips via cash. You now won't have to declare them or you won't have to pay taxes on them up to an X amount of money. That's positive. I work in, you know, I own a restaurant. I want those people to be. To do it. With that said, Billy, I think the. Isn't this positive goes down a little bit because how many people pay by cash anymore?

[Billy Rutledge]

How many?

[Matt Jones]

Not many. And let me tell you a little secret. A lot of servers who get tips in cash, they never declared them anyway, so let's be real. A lot of that. It'll help some people, but the amount of people it will help is probably not all that many people.

[Billy Rutledge]

They're also capped at. I'm sorry to interrupt.

[Matt Jones]

It's cap.

[Billy Rutledge]

I was gonna say it's capped at 25, 000 for tips and 12.5 thousand for overtime.

[Matt Jones]

Okay.

[Billy Rutledge]

Why do they cap it like that?

[Matt Jones]

They cap it because it costs money. I mean, it costs the government money. You it. The overtime is especially a big one because there are the professions like the police and some construction where they get a ton of overtime, and they cap it because they want more money to come into the government. In general, though, I'm for the cap, the on the tips and the O and the overtime, but it's actually a very Small part of the bill. So what's the biggest part of the bill? Well, I think, Billy, the number is something like 70% of the government's money goes to three sources. Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Now, Medicare, people don't like to cut Medicare. Why? It's old people. And you know what old people do? They vote. So people do not cut Medicare. Oh, I said three things. It's four things. Another, the second thing, Social Security. Who does Social Security help? Mostly it also helps disabled, but it also helps old people. Guess what? Old people vote. So politicians do not want to cut Medicare or, or Social Security, Social Security, defense. Everybody wants the country to be safe, right? When you talk, when you talk about defense, though, nobody wants to cut it. You remember when Doge came in and they were going to check every part of government. Guess what's the one part of government they wouldn't let them check? Defense. Because there's a lot of waste in defense. But we don't want to know about it because you don't want to be somebody that's seen as not strong on military. So the three. And those are, by the way, the three largest sums of money. So those three sums of money, nobody's going to touch. So now you're left with Medicaid, which is the easiest one for politicians to touch because it affects the poor. And Medicaid allows the poor to. And the folks who, for whatever reason are not able to work and get private health care to get healthcare. Now, I won't bore you with the details, but for a long time, the only people that could really get Medicaid were people who didn't have jobs at all. And then Obamacare expanded it to say you could make like you could be a working poor and still get Medicaid. We added 20 million people to the medic. We, we took away, excuse me, 20 million uninsured Americans since Obamacare. So leading right now, there's like 22 million Americans without healthcare. So what does this bill do? Well, some people have said this, Billy, makes it to where illegals can't get Medicaid. Well, guess what? Illegals never got Medicaid. When you hear a politician say, now illegal immigrants do not get Medicaid, here's a little secret. They never got Medicaid. Politicians who tell you they did, you can now know they lied to you.

[Billy Rutledge]

They're lying to me.

[Matt Jones]

They're lying. Illegal immigrants never got Medicaid. It now imposes work requirements on people that get Medicaid. Okay, now that sounds on paper, good. Right. We want people to work. We want people to work. But what does that mean? How do you prove that people have a job to get Medicaid? Well, the answer is they have to fill out paperwork, right? You're gonna have to somehow prove to the government you work. Well, what if I told you that 30% of the money that's been saved by these work requirements will be used to fund the people to find out whether or not these folks are working? Because somebody has to look it up, right? Somebody's got to call your employer and see if you're really working. So 30% of that savings is going to be on admit. Is going to be lost on administrative costs. That ain't that good. But I want to take a more fundamental step back for people to understand why the Medicaid provision is bad. Billy, in America, if you get sick, like right now, what are you going to do?

[Billy Rutledge]

Go to the er?

[Matt Jones]

You're going to go to the er? Are you going to go to the emergency room? My friend Mario, sitting in here, you're going to go to the emergency room. What happens when you go to the emergency room? When you walk in my insurance card? Okay, you have your insurance card, but you know, if you do not have insurance, the hospital still has to treat you. You know that?

[Billy Rutledge]

I did not know that. That's good to hear that.

[Matt Jones]

In America, they cannot turn anyone down at the emergency room. And by the way, this is good. We don't want people to die just because they are. Don't have a car. So people who don't have insurance, people visiting the country from foreign countries, right? Immigrants. If you go to the emergency room, they have to treat you. So Medicaid. So when you go to the emergency room, it is paid for. The hospital does it. So the question then, well, what does Medicaid do? Medicaid allows. Billy, let's say you're on Medicaid, that allows you to go see the doctor before you go to the emergency room. Isn't that better?

[Billy Rutledge]

It is, yeah.

[Matt Jones]

It's preventative care. So people were on Medicaid don't just have to wait until they're about to die. They can actually go get health care before. But if you take Medicaid away from people, what happens? They can still go to the emergency room, but now they can't go see a doctor otherwise. Is that positive? No, no, in my opinion. So while we talk about people deserving Medicaid or not, really, we're saying, are we going to make people wait till they're in emergency to go to the hospital? Or can they go before now? Let me go back to the emergency room. You go to the emergency room, you don't have insurance, what does the hospital do? They still have to treat you. Let's say they treat you. Let's say it costs the hospital $10,000. All right, you leave now what happens?

[Billy Rutledge]

I get a huge bill.

[Matt Jones]

They'll send you a bill. But now what happens if you don't pay?

[Billy Rutledge]

A collection service eventually calls me. Right.

[Matt Jones]

And what if you don't pay?

[Billy Rutledge]

That I don't know.

[Matt Jones]

The answer is nothing. But the hospital is still out $10,000. Now, what Medicaid does is Medicaid says, hey, hospital, you spent $10,000. We ain't giving you all $10,000, but we'll give you $3,000. And thus you get that $3,000 back. And if you're a hospital, you've treated this person and you've gotten some of your money back, let's say you take Medicaid away from Billy, the hospital will get $0 back.

[Billy Rutledge]

They're not going to want to treat me.

[Matt Jones]

They still have to. They have to treat you, but now they will get no money for treating you. So then what happens? That's how hospitals close. They are forced to treat a population that doesn't have health insurance and they don't get the money back. So they have two choices. One, people like Mario who have health insurance, they will now charge them twice as much to make up for the fact that the person with no money and no Medicaid gets them nothing. So now when Mario comes, instead of being charged 10,000, they might charge him 20,000.

[Billy Rutledge]

Wow.

[Matt Jones]

And the person that did not have Medicaid and is still in there for free. So when you take Medicaid away from people, the politicians act like you're punishing the people. And I guess to some extent you are, because you don't get to see the doctor. But you know who else? You're punishing the world. The hospitals have to close. So when we say rural hospitals are going to close, why are they going to close? Let's take my hometown of Middlesborough, Kentucky. I have been told, and I don't know if this is true, but I've been told that something like 60% of the people who go to the hospital in Middlesbrough have either Medicaid or Medicare. Let's just say 40% are on Medicaid. If you make it to where those people don't get Medicaid, the hospital has to close. They don't have enough pain patients. So they either have to raise the rates on the people with money and people in Middlesboro don't have enough money, or they have to close. So when you say, why will these hospitals close? Why will these doctors choose not to? Why, if you're a doctor, if, if, no, if all of a sudden 30% of your population can't come see you anymore, you're not going to have enough patience. You're going to leave. You're going to go somewhere where there are rich people so they can pay you. So by doing, even if you don't believe that individual people deserve health care, quote, unquote, deserve Medicaid, all you are doing is you're punishing the people who do pay by seeing higher insurance rates or you're punishing the hospitals and the doctors by not reinimbursing them when they come. It's a horrible policy.

[Billy Rutledge]

So if my insurance rate is going to go up to pay for the.

[Matt Jones]

People who don't, your insurance rate is going to go up because of this. That's the thing. Nobody says insurance, your insurance rate is going to go up. So the whole point, the theory behind Obamacare, whether you were for it or not, was the theory was this. Billy, we're all paying for everybody's healthcare anyway, right? When you go to the emergency room, we're all paying for it. Me, you, Elon Musk, Joe, that works at McDonald's. Everybody is paying for these hospitals. So why not make it to where more of these people can get preventive care so that they don't show up and go to the emergency room where everything's so expensive and they're maybe about to die?

[Billy Rutledge]

Do you think that there's a segment of the population that wouldn't go to preventative care even if it was offered?

[Matt Jones]

Maybe not, but you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink, right? You're right. There are people who only go to. But I think you would agree if you have access to preventative care, you're more likely to go than if you don't.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Matt Jones]

So I think a lot of times Democrats focus on does this person who doesn't work deserve or not deserve Medicaid? I would argue human beings on this earth are created by God and we are all equal. And of the things that we should all have, it's the ability to live a healthy life. I would argue even if you don't work, you should have an ability to live. But let's say you disagree with me. On that, it's still the worst system in the world to make it to where the only time people can get care is at the emergency room when it's the most expensive. It makes no sense. It's why no other country in the world but us does it this way. So now they've put in work requirements. Let me ask you a question. How many people do you think that work jobs where they're making very little money have the time or knowledge to fill that fill out Internet work requirements to get their Medicaid again?

[Billy Rutledge]

I think there's a segment of the population that does work but would not be doing that paperwork.

[Matt Jones]

Or maybe they would just miss the paperwork. Like I used to sometimes just not pay my power bill. And then all of a sudden they'd come and turn it off and I'd go, but here's the problem. Under this new bill, if you miss the paperwork, you can't get it again for a year. So just missing the paper.

[Billy Rutledge]

Fall through the cracks for you can.

[Matt Jones]

Fall through the cracks. And guess what? Have you ever been to a government service that's efficient at these places where you have to prove that you work? You think that's going to be efficient?

[Billy Rutledge]

No.

[Matt Jones]

You think there's going to be long lines to prove that you're working?

[Billy Rutledge]

Yes.

[Matt Jones]

How much is it going to take to staff all of these offices around the country to prove to that the people are working?

[Billy Rutledge]

Probably a good amount of money that you saved from actually making the cuts. Exactly.

[Matt Jones]

Which is why even if you don't have the position, I do, which is everyone deserves health care as one of the people on this world here, by God, even if you don't believe that cutting Medicaid is dumb and where it will affect people the most is rural Kentucky and places like rural Kentucky in New York City, the hospitals in New York City, when somebody shows up without Medicaid, you know what they'll do in New York City? They'll just raise the rates on the wealthy people and everybody will move on. But what are they gonna do where there's no wealthy people? What are you gonna do when there's no upper middle class people are very few. The hospitals are going to shut down. What are these nursing homes going to do if the people down? They're going to shut down. The doctors are going to move. Why would you practice In Harlan if 50% of the work you do you don't get paid back for, you're going to go somewhere else. So the effect of this is going to crush these rural places. And let me give you the last point on this and then we'll take a break. If you want to know how cowardice this is, I just learned today that most of the things they did in cutting Medicaid, they're waiting until after the 2026 elections to do to go into December 31, 2026. December 31, 2026, they're waiting until they all can run for reelection comes into play. They're hoping that in a year and a half, everybody will forget. And more specifically, they're waiting until Donald Trump is no longer president so that the next guy has to deal with it. And that, to me, if you, if you really believe in this, why are you waiting a year and a half to do it?

[Billy Rutledge]

Right? Implement it now.

[Matt Jones]

The rest of the budget goes into effect, I believe, September 1st, but this provision doesn't start until after the election. That should tell you how negative it is and how they know that what they're doing is going to have bad impacts. Interrupted by Matt Jones is sponsored by Clayton and Krugman. It was founded on a simple idea. All leather goods should last a lifetime. They make everything from bags, belts, wallets, and much more. And the best part, they're doing it right here in Kentucky. You could check them out at clayton and croom.com that c r u m e.com or visit their flagship retail store in Louisville at 216 S. Shelby St. Located in Nulu. Quality leather goods built to last with Clayton and crew. All right, so I gave you. That was a long kind of segment here on. Interrupted by Matt Jones about the. The thing I hate the most about the bill, which is the Medicaid. But there's some other things. First of all, they extended the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. Um, in my opinion, the wealthiest Americans should pay more tax. I'm not of the wealthy Americans that some people are, but I do find for myself, Billy, I think I should pay more tax. The money that they, the money that they take from me, if they took a little more, would not affect me like it affects the working poor. The working poor in this country get screwed more than any other people in the lower middle class people. People who go up, get up every day, they go work somewhere, they come home. They're the people that get screwed the most. They pay the highest percentage of their money in taxes. So the very poorest people in America don't really pay taxes much. But the people who make somewhere between 25 to 30,000 and 50,000, those people pay the greatest percentage of their income in Taxes of anybody. Does that make sense?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, no, no, it doesn't.

[Matt Jones]

And now you're taking their health care from them. Some of them.

[Billy Rutledge]

How do you stimulate the economy when you're taking all the money away from the people?

[Matt Jones]

Because there's this belief that, well, if you get, if you, if the rich people get to keep more of their money, they'll invest and create jobs. That it's, it's a trickle down theory. Here's the problem. It's been tested multiple times in history and it's never worked. It's literally never worked. It's a great theory because it can never work and people can still say it works. It's never worked. The best economic times we've had in history have been when we have invested in things that help give middle class people more money. Why? Because they spend their money.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

What are the best times in our economic history? Well, one was the New Deal when the government invested all of this money in helping get out of the Depression and we had economic stimulus. Then Post World War II, the GI Bill, we sent people to college, we got all these people educated. The middle class was able to get created. And then the third time was during the 90s, during the tech boom, when Clinton's policy changed, a lot of things gave tax cuts to the middle class. What has never worked is giving rich people more money ever. And now we're doing it again and it won't work again.

[Billy Rutledge]

It won't work, but that's how you get something passed. Right? The people with special interests, because they.

[Matt Jones]

Spend the most money on it. And now that, in my opinion, Billy, now this isn't tested. This is just Matt Jones's opinion. Now, given wealthy people a lot more money, makes less sense than it ever has. Why? Because in the world of globalization, they don't have to spend it in America. They can go create companies in other countries. Right. So.

[Billy Rutledge]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

The wealthiest people in America are often putting their factories in Vietnam or in India or they're going and buying a yacht in France. So the idea that, well, if you give Americans, wealthy Americans, more money, they'll spend it in America. I don't even know if that happens anymore.

[Billy Rutledge]

You know, I've heard Trump talk about this, you know, and tariffs help, you know, making people come back to the United States to build things. Does that help in that regard?

[Matt Jones]

In theory it could, but you'd have to be willing to tariff at an extremely high rate and you would have to basically say, you know, you'd have to essentially bribe companies and, and, and I think it's. I think that's poor judgment. Because you know who will suffer in the short term for tariffs? Americans. Because we're the ones paying for them, right? We pay them. I mean, when they say Vietnam or Japan or whatever they pay, they don't pay the tariffs. Americans pay the tariffs. I also think in today's like, AI world, the days of, like, factories sprouting up in America, making T shirts, that's just not gonna happen. Just not gonna happen. But I tell you what I know won't work giving rich people more money to go spend it in other countries. So that's another reason I don't like this. The debt. Usually it's only Republicans that talk about the debt, but as somebody home, businesses, the debt's a big deal now. The debt's boring. I'm not going to go into all the debt except to say this. This bill raises the debt by more than any bill in the history of America, by 25%. More than any bill in the history of America by 25%. It is a $4 trillion a year addition to the debt. Just for example, you know, the only other two bills that have been more the post Covid bill, the economic stimulus act, and Trump's last budget.

[Billy Rutledge]

Okay, Trump, he's added to the debt.

[Matt Jones]

Has two of the three largest debt additions ever. Which is why when the Republican Party gets up and says they're for stopping the debt and balancing the budget, they are liars. They just are lying. Nobody in Washington cares about the debt. But I'll tell you who should is us. Right now, we spend 3% of our gross domestic product on debt. By 2040, that number is going to be 6%. It's going to double in 15 years. Your kids. I don't have any kids, Billy. But your kids come in one day or somebody listening here, your grandkids, they're going to be the one paying for all this. You're going to start having to wear. 6% of every dollar produced in America will be sent to our debt, which most of which is held by China. That's not good to the debt and that.

[Billy Rutledge]

And most people are so high.

[Matt Jones]

Most people are. But you know what? You're going to. We're paying it. We're. And we're going to pay more. And one of these days, China owns like, I don't know what the number is, but a huge percentage of our debt. The fact that we continue to increase it. This is one thing Elon Musk and I agree on. The fact that we continue to Increase. It will be the downfall of the country if we're not careful.

[Billy Rutledge]

Wasn't Massey a big.

[Matt Jones]

Well, Massey and Rand Paul talk about it all the time. They're exactly right. Most Democrats don't care about the debt. I do, because somebody's going to have to pay for it. And there are people who believe our debt payments will double in the next 15 years. You mentioned the ICE spending under this bill. ICE, which is the immigration enforcement, will now become larger than the FBI and the CIA. They are tripling the amount of money that goes to ice. Tripling. There will now be more ICE agents in America than. Than FBI law enforcement. Is that good?

[Billy Rutledge]

It's hard to wrap my brain around.

[Matt Jones]

It's ridiculous. And by the way, give Trump some credit. They have closed the border. Pretty much. The border is much more secure, which makes the reason of why let's triple the force even weirder.

[Billy Rutledge]

Right?

[Matt Jones]

Right. We've done a pretty good job with what we got. Why are we going to triple it?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, now they're going into Home Depots and kind of like the other episodes.

[Matt Jones]

Well, we've talked about that. You start going into Home Depots, that's going to have a bigger problem. But triple. Who in America wants immigration enforcement to have more people than law enforcement? At the most, at the most generous, like you, if you think there are the most illegal people here that you could. You might say it's 20, 30 million people. That's like 10% or 8% of the regular population. You're telling me we need more agents for those 8% than the other 92. Oh, well, we have that now thanks to this budget. Student debt, for all of you listening, if your kid is about to go to college and you make less than $150,000, this is going to affect you under Biden in 2021. And it was continuing an Obama policy that to be fair to Trump, he continued to. They made it to where if you made between 30 and $150,000, you could get a lower student debt rate for college than if you made over $150,000. That's good, isn't it?

[Billy Rutledge]

I like that premise. Yes.

[Matt Jones]

They've just taken it away now. Student debt relief or the ability to get loans. People think of it as forgiving the loans. It's not forgiving it, it's just giving you a lower interest rate. Right. That's gone. Everybody will get the interest rate of the market, which means rich people will get a lower interest rate than middle class people because they're more likely to Pay it back. Is that good?

[Billy Rutledge]

Don't like that. No, I want the. It should be the opposite or even better. Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

So I saw this study that said if you make $80,000 a year, if your family makes 80, so it could be one person or two people. Your, your child's yearly loan payment will now be two and a half times higher than it was before when they graduate because they won't be able to get as good a rate. Who thinks that's good? Who thinks that's good? I'll tell you who thinks it's good. Who thinks it's good are banks because they can charge a high rate to people that probably will pay it but will end up spending more of their money on loans. That's in the bill. The people who still can get the low rate are very poor people or very rich people. But those people making between like 50 and 150, your rates are about to. For your kids are about to double, almost triple. Makes absolutely no sense.

[Billy Rutledge]

Especially with student loans that are already a little predatory. You know what I mean? Like, you know.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Billy Rutledge]

There's no relief from them. I mean, I don't think that we should just wipe them clean like some people.

[Matt Jones]

And here's another thing. When you, when you raise, when you raise loans. Mario. Let's say Mario has a loan for $50,000. When he graduates, he owes $50,000. Let's say he spends $4,000 a year on his loan. Guess what? He's not spending that $4,000 on things that will stimulate the economy.

[Billy Rutledge]

True.

[Matt Jones]

Food goods. He's just giving it to a bank. That was the premise behind Biden's student loan relief. I know some people are against it, and I get that. I don't know that I was totally for it, but the premise behind it was if these people don't have to spend their money on the student loans, they'll spend it on something that'll help the economy. That's not a crazy premise, is it?

[Billy Rutledge]

No. Especially when you're already giving people money to stimulate that economy.

[Matt Jones]

It's not a crazy premise. Now, I didn't like it because I thought it punished working class people who didn't go to college. But that's a different argument. But now the loans go up. I'll do two more and I'll call it a day. But before I do that, if you need a moment to relax, refocus, or just feel better in your body. Cornbread Hemp's Hemp infused wellness products are grown in Kentucky and made to help folks Find their version of the good life. From relaxing seltzers to organic gummies and oils, every product is crafted with care. No synthetics, no shortcuts. Visit cornbreadhemp.com Matt Jones. You get 30% off your first order. Remember, this one's even a better code than the other one. Cornbread hemp.com Matt Jones to get 30% off your first order. Cornbread hemp. This is the good life. Two more things. One, clean energy. A lot of people, when you start talking about clean energy, Billy, they're like all these hippies. Liberal, environmentalist. But there's something, one of the good things about clean energy, especially solar and wind, is guess what we're not going to run out of, Billy?

[Billy Rutledge]

Sunlight.

[Matt Jones]

And the sunlight and the wind, it's not going anywhere.

[Billy Rutledge]

Going anywhere.

[Matt Jones]

Now, other things like oil, coal, we're going to run out of those. There's only so many, much of them. And when it comes to oil, guess where most of it is? Not here. Overseas, not here. It's in other places. So we become dependent on countries that maybe do really bad things because we have to have their oil. But guess what? Everybody has sunlight and wind. So the theory behind clean energy is not just save the environment. The theory is that when you make it good, when it becomes a thing, you don't have to rely on the rest of the world for your energy. You can get it from what God has given us, naturally. Thomas Massie, man, I'm praising him so much. Did you know he runs his entire house on solar energy?

[Billy Rutledge]

I've read about it.

[Matt Jones]

He is not even on the grid. And he's not environmentalist. He just says it's smart, it's cheaper. It doesn't make me rely on other people. So all of the credits that we were giving in America to encourage people to develop clean energy have now been taken away in this bill. No more credits for clean energy. I think that's unbelievably stupid for the reasons I just said. But let me tell you a reason why it's stupid that a lot of people don't realize. You know who is now leading the world in clean energy by an exponential margin is China, China, Russia. China is producing its own energy at unbelievable levels. China is going to get to the point in the next 25 years where they're not even going to use oil and they're not even going to use, I don't know how much coal they use now, but they're not going to use much of it and it's going to be Fine. And we are so far behind them and we were trying to catch up and now we put the kibosh on it.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, but doesn't that like displace a lot of people that are in the energy sectors like coal and like oil?

[Matt Jones]

Well, here's yes. And here's what we should have done. Here's my biggest complaint with Obama when he kind of ended the coal industry. And it wasn't just him, it was market forces, but he spurred it along a little quickly. They didn't do anything to replace it. If it were me, I would have done what they did with the tobacco industry, which is when they ended it. They helped train and teach the farmers to make something else. Right. What we should have done in the mountains is as coal was going away, we should have made it the king place for solar energy in the entire America. We have mountains high up in the air. That's what we should have done. We've done it a little, but we haven't done it enough. So yeah. Is it going to be hard? Yes. But then you help those people because ultimately we're going to run out of coal. We just are. And here's the other thing. It is so expensive to make coal plants. If they don't exist now, they're not going to exist. The coal plants that are left, new ones are going to be very hard. I'm not saying there won't be any, but there won't be many. They cost too much. You know why solar energy is cheap? You just put up the infrastructure and then the sun comes. You don't have to pay to dig all the stuff out of the grain, all the things that are part of it. So it's just dumb for the future. It's dumb. And I'm in a coal area. We need to do 9 million times more things to help coal mine former coal miners and coal areas than we do. But saying, hey China, you get to have all of the future energy source that the rest of the world is going to use. You get to have it and we don't is stupid.

[Billy Rutledge]

It just seems short sighted, very short sighted. Or it's fine for the next five, ten years, but.

[Matt Jones]

And then finally I'll finish with this. You know, Doge, Billy, I think when Doge started, you and I talk some about it and you know, everybody likes the idea of we should get rid of waste, fraud and abuse. I think that being efficient, whoever came up with that slogan, that was a very smart slogan, waste, fraud and abuse. And it's clear that they took a Lot of things out that were not waste, fraud and abuse. But, you know, they probably did make some efficiency better. Now, a, Billy, when I just hear about $4 trillion of new debt, forgive me if I don't believe that they care about waste, fraud and abuse.

[Billy Rutledge]

The debt, man.

[Matt Jones]

But B, let me give you an example of some things. What this bill did is they took Elon's cuts and they made them permanent. Okay, well, let's talk about some of the things that are about to get cut. The Appalachian Regional Commission. The Appalachian Regional Commission exists to help encourage businesses to come to Appalachia and to provide projects that range from education to infrastructure. They've done a million great things in Kentucky and in Appalachian. Their budget is being cut from $250 million to $12 million. That is a cut that will happen. Government cuts at Social Security and Veterans Administrations, not to the actual money, but to the support system. Ask somebody. I'm sure there are people listening who are on Social Security. Ask them how hard it is to get somebody on the phone. Staff is going to be cut by 40 to 60% over the next three years. You think it's hard to get somebody on the phone now? See what's going. If you don't think these things are bad, then go look at the people who voted for the bill and what they made sure to sneak in at the last minute. Lisa Murkowski was the last vote to get it passed. She's from Alaska. You know all this stuff I just said to you about Medicaid and student debt and commissions and Social Security.

[Billy Rutledge]

Here's a list, right?

[Matt Jones]

She got a provision put in the bill so it doesn't apply to Alaska.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, what the heck.

[Matt Jones]

She got a provision in the bill so it doesn't apply to Alaska, and she was the 50th vote. Now, if this were something that was good, well, why does she need to exempt Alaska? On the one hand, I guess you could say, way to go for you, for Alaska. But B, if it's not good enough for Alaska, why is it good enough for America? How about some more? Remember what I just told you about veterans and Social Security? How about coal mine offices, miners offices? The budget for minor safety offices has been cut 90% in all over America, except in one state, West Virginia, where the two senators said they would only vote if West Virginia got exempted.

[Billy Rutledge]

Oh, another one. Another state got exemptions from the coal mining part.

[Matt Jones]

So Kentucky, with coal mines, we lost it. Pennsylvania lost it. A lot of coal mines there. Wyoming got coal mines out there, but it won't apply in West Virginia because the West Virginia senator said, well, it's not good enough for West Virginia, the fact that these people would vote for a bill and then exempt their own state from it. A you'd sit there and go, hey, Mitch McConnell, why didn't you have to get do that for us? Since he voted for it, Rand Paul voted against him. But it also goes to show how ridiculous this is. So, you know, I encourage. And then I'll stop preaching. I encourage people, whatever the issue is. You've listened to this, you've come this far. It's very easy in this world to go, I love Trump, I hate Trump. I love Democrats, I hate Democrats. And to just decide what you feel based on whether or not your side is for it or not, I would really encourage you not to do that, because that is what leads to a situation like this. And I'll finish with Lisa Murkowski again, Senator from Alaska. When she became the 50th vote for it. She was interviewed and she said, what do you think about this vote? Right after she had voted for it, and she said, I don't like the bill. I don't think it's a good bill. I voted for it, but I hope it will get changed. After she had already voted for it. She said she wanted it to be changed after she had voted to make it to where it wouldn't be changed.

[Billy Rutledge]

Seems like a lot of people with their own interests at heart instead of what America's interests.

[Matt Jones]

Senator Josh Hawley in Men in Missouri. He wrote an editorial, go look it up in the New York Times, where he said, the cuts we are going to do to Medicaid are going to devastate rural Americans and we have to stop them. It's not fair to poor Americans. He wrote it and then he voted for it. And afterwards he was asked why, and he said, I just felt like I needed to. It becomes a team mentality where they feel like you have to win and they have to lose. And the people that suffer are always people like those of you that are listening right now. Thank you all. Speaking of listening very much. We will next week. I'm off on vacation. When we come back, going to bring a couple of people on to do a little preview of the football season. And I'm sure there'll be a lot that has happened. Billy, after all of that, would you, if, if, if you were now polled and said, do you approve of the bill or not, would you still go? Don't know. Would you say yes or no?

[Billy Rutledge]

I would say no at this point. And going back to the, you know, putting provisions in before people could even read the bill, counterproductive provisions like cutting clean energy, but yet slashing departments that focus on the health and safety of coal mines like that. It seems like that while they're trying to find money, they're, they're cutting a lot of things that can, that really hurt the poor, like you said.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, well, this one will be bad. This might be the worst budget we've had in a long time. And what pains me is it's going to hurt the people who, in my opinion, need it the most. Thank you all very much for listening on that uplifting note. We'll see you next week. Uninterrupted By Matt Joe.

[Billy Rutledge]

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[Matt Jones]

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[Billy Rutledge]

Up to Donkey Kong and his buddy.

[Matt Jones]

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[Billy Rutledge]

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