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- [00:00]
Mina Kimes
Lenovo is built for creators who don't wait for inspiration. They chase it with inventive tech built in AI tools and seamless performance. Lenovo devices, powered by Intel Core Ultra processors are designed to bring your wildest ideas to life faster.
- [00:14]
Matt Jones
That's the power of Lenovo with Intel inside.
- [00:17]
Mina Kimes
Enjoy flexible financing, rewards on every purchase and free shipping. And students get special offers when you create an account at Lenovo.
- [00:25]
Matt Jones
Com.
- [00:26]
Mina Kimes
Lenovo, Lenovo Gatorade Zero. The number one proven electrolyte blend made with zero sugar, designed to hydrate better than water so you can lose more sweat and push more limits. Gatorade 0. Is it in you? Wasn't that delicious? So good.
- [00:48]
Matt Jones
Your bill, ladies.
- [00:49]
Mina Kimes
I got it. I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I assist. I assisted first. Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly.
- [00:57]
Matt Jones
People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.
- [01:04]
Mina Kimes
Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No.
- [01:09]
Matt Jones
The Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply. Support for today's show comes from Sonos.
- [01:18]
Mina Kimes
Watching games with a Sonos home theater setup makes everything feel more immersive. The Arc Ultra soundbar delivers incredible surround sound that puts you right in the middle of the action, bringing that stadium experience right into my home. And now I've been trying out the Sonos Ace headphones and like all Sonos products, they perform as good as they look. Sleek design, crystal clear sound, and a super comfortable fit. Check out the full lineup@sonos.com this is.
- [01:44]
Matt Jones
Interrupted by Matt Jones. It is episode 17 of Interrupted by Matt Jones, presented by Cornbread Hemp. This is the good life. I love to do well. I love to talk to interesting people. And one of my favorite people to talk to is Mina Kimes of espn. She does NFL Live, but also does a million other things and is an overall smart person and we like smart people on this show. And Mina is nice to to have you on.
- [02:16]
Mina Kimes
It's good to catch up. It's been a really long time.
- [02:18]
Matt Jones
It has. I think the first time you and I talked was during COVID We did one of these as everybody was bored out of their minds. And you know, you've maintained there at espn. A lot of the people that I really liked over the years have slowly fallen to the side, but Mina remains holding the four down. So I'm glad to see that I do my best.
- [02:41]
Mina Kimes
Yeah, we're very lucky that NFL Live, which is my main show, espn, has Stayed together now for five, six years, which is pretty rare in our industry.
- [02:50]
Matt Jones
And you have all the people that I like. You have Dan Orlofsky, you got Laura Rutledge, you got my guy. What, Marcus Spears. Right. So you all. You're all on there and that's. It Seems like a fun show to do. Is.
- [03:02]
Mina Kimes
Is such a. Such a fun show to do. We are on site for Monday Night Football this year almost every Monday.
- [03:08]
Matt Jones
Oh, you are?
- [03:10]
Mina Kimes
Yeah, we're going to be on site, which is always fun with the gang. And we got Chicago, week one, Bears, Vikings. Like Monday night. It's a good one. I'm excited about it.
- [03:18]
Matt Jones
So, yeah, adding one of them. If so, I may try to come up there and. And bother everybody.
- [03:24]
Mina Kimes
I didn't see them on the schedule in the first two months, maybe later in the season.
- [03:28]
Matt Jones
Do you like going. You like traveling and going to all those games? I'm somebody who loves to travel for the job, but some people are homebodies. Do you like it?
- [03:35]
Mina Kimes
I like traveling to anywhere I can reach without connecting.
- [03:39]
Matt Jones
Okay, so do you all tape that in LA or do you tape it in New York?
- [03:43]
Mina Kimes
It's a mix. I mean, we do. We do a lot in Bristol. And I'll be in Bristol on a few Tuesdays this year and then summits, remote summits in New York. Summits on site. It's all over the place. But a lot of on site this year tell people.
- [03:56]
Matt Jones
Tell people what? Because I don't think a lot of people realize what Bristol, Connecticut is like because everybody has this glamorous notion of what ESPN is. I'm in Bristol like three times a year, and there's that one hotel that everybody stays at. And then, like, where do you eat when you're there? I always struggle to find a place to eat.
- [04:17]
Mina Kimes
West Harford is where, like, a lot of ESPN ers live around there.
- [04:21]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [04:22]
Mina Kimes
There's a lot of actually really good restaurants there. It's about 25, 20 minutes from Bristol for those. It's basically a college campus is how I would describe Bristol. Right. It feels like even when you're on. On the ESPN campus, it feels like a small college.
- [04:38]
Matt Jones
Yes.
- [04:38]
Mina Kimes
Where there's not a lot going on.
- [04:40]
Matt Jones
Not a lot. It's like Transylvania where I went to school. Like, you kind of. Everybody knows everybody and you're hoping to meet new people. But then sometimes you'll get D where you look up and the rock is there or something. You know, there are there. It is cool. Sometimes random people end up there.
- [04:55]
Mina Kimes
Definitely. I've told this story before, but my very first day of espn, the first time I ever went to the campus in Bristol, when I was hired back when I was a writer. 2014, 15 has been a long time now. I got lost. It was kind of an empty day on campus for some reason. And I couldn't figure out where I was. And I was clearly wandering around lost. And then I felt someone tap me on the back and say, excuse me, miss, you look lost. And it was Jerome Bettis. Which was like I felt like I was in a Sports center commercial.
- [05:25]
Matt Jones
That is a Sports center commercial.
- [05:27]
Mina Kimes
You're Jerome Bettis.
- [05:30]
Matt Jones
I do wonder when I'm there, I'm usually there around the NCAA tournament selection show and it's. And they're all college basketball people, but the rest of people aren't there. And I do what I do sort of envy what it had to be like in the golden days before there was ESPN LA and before they had the New York studios and where everyone was there. I have to say that had to be kind of cool back in the day, don't you think?
- [05:53]
Mina Kimes
Yeah, we're really all spread out now around like svps in DC for example. Got a lot of folks in New York, the morning shows. Stephen A. Is in New York slash Miami. So yeah, chances are less than before that you would run into some familiar faces.
- [06:08]
Matt Jones
I was at Seaport once when Stephen A. Got brought in. And you don't have to laugh at this because you have to work with these people. And I don't. But I did think it was very funny. I was in Seaport and Stephen A. Comes in and you know there's nobody there. Like Seaport is kind of empty. Like there's nobody there. And he gets out of the car and you know, when people on TV see Stephen A. Do those like walk ins where he acts like he's a professional wrestler and he sort of, you know, buttons the coat and kind of walks like that. He was walking into Seaport like that and he had like six security guys, but no one was there but me. And I felt like saying, guys, you could take me. You don't. There no need to be six of you if something happens. So, you know, that's, that's. It's kind of funny. All right.
- [06:50]
Mina Kimes
He is like more famous than a lot of athletes.
- [06:54]
Matt Jones
Oh, for sure.
- [06:55]
Mina Kimes
Like people laugh when he says that because he himself has said that. But it is true. Like having been, you know, when you go to games, it is remarkable how many people do come up to him. And he's the person at ESPN I get asked about the most.
- [07:08]
Matt Jones
I bet that's true. Have you endorsed him for president yet?
- [07:12]
Mina Kimes
I have endorsed him for continuing to do first.
- [07:14]
Matt Jones
Okay, that's what I like. I don't say that's a very diplomatic, diplomatic answer before I want to talk with you about the NFL. But let me ask you one more ESPN question. I the you, you've had so many different like you have been there over 10 years now and, and I you, I've been there through, I have a small job but lots of different changes. Do you feel when you're at ESPN how the culture goes? I mean there was a time that doing shows like you all even do with NFL Live that are more personality driven would have been frowned on. And now that's much more approved. Dan Orlovsky can talk about his food and what he likes to eat and all of that. It's amazing how much that has changed, hasn't it? Even in just the last few years.
- [08:04]
Mina Kimes
I think. Yeah. The sort of nature of the shows is constantly changing. Right. And the kind of platforms that they're built for and audiences that they're catering to. I actually think NFL lives a bit of a throwback though in some ways. Like we do a lot of, you know, we do like to share our personalities and lean into our relationships, especially because we've been blessed to work together for so long. But I think that the reason we're able to do that and is because it is such a hardcore football show. Yeah, I think like sometimes maybe, you know, when I see folks talking about ESPN and sports television, I almost feel like they're kind of leaving that out a bit. Because if you watch NFL Live, I know you've watched our show. It is really freaking nerdy like we are.
- [08:49]
Matt Jones
Yeah, it is football nerdy.
- [08:51]
Mina Kimes
Lean into the teaching and the how and the why. And I think it's why the show personally, selfishly, and I know I sound a little self aggrandizing here, but I think it's why the show works is that we really respect our, our viewers and, and don't talk down to them.
- [09:03]
Matt Jones
It's kind of funny. You know, I, I'm starting this podcast for the NFL and I've been listening to all the NFL podcasts to try to get ready and I've noticed the NFL, it feels like much more so than college sports podcast than NBA podcast. It does seem to cater to the serious a little bit more. It feels like for whatever reason, which is good because I can't do that. So I Can that find my own niche. But what it does feel like that NFL fans want that in a way that maybe fans of other sports don't as much. Do you agree with that?
- [09:38]
Mina Kimes
I 100% agree. NFL fans are scary smart now.
- [09:42]
Matt Jones
I think they really are.
- [09:44]
Mina Kimes
I mean, not just about X's and O's and stats, but like Cap. I mean, NFL fans, they understand about, you know, like restructuring and what it means. It's honestly kind of remarkable. And I think because of that, the discourse and podcast shows, etc has to be pretty sophisticated, honestly. And that doesn't mean every podcast has to be, you know, super grinding matchups and getting into advanced stats and that kind of thing and tendencies. But I think that there's, it's been proven that there's a huge audience for that with NFL fans. It's such a complicated, beautiful sport and I think, you know, there's so many different ways to talk about it, but I think that high level of discourse you're talking about, that really serious, like, let's talk about matchups things, it does feel pretty unique to the NFL.
- [10:34]
Matt Jones
It really does. All right, so let's talk a lot about the NFL. We are three or four weeks away from starting the season and I guess for someone who now hosts two NFL shows, I still treat it in some ways in my mind the exact opposite of the way you do. So I like look at it kind of more broad and I don't know that any NFL discussion really in today's world starts with anyone other than the Chiefs, even though they did not win. Because I, I would argue that, yeah, the Cowboys are maybe the marquee franchise, but it is still a league where Mahomes and Kelsey and the Chiefs are, in my opinion, a primary story and are the one thing that year in and year out, everybody knows will be good. I think they're going to be better this year than they were last year, even if their record is worse. Do you agree?
- [11:26]
Mina Kimes
Yeah. Well, so the record part is huge because, you know, Chiefs want 15 games, I believe, and all, but all one.
- [11:36]
Matt Jones
Score, like 10 of them.
- [11:37]
Mina Kimes
Yeah, right. So like I always look when I look for signs of regression record wise, not terms of the quality of the team necessarily. You do look at point differential and they had the point differential of like a 10 win team. They got incredibly lucky. And you can say, well, if you're coached by Andy Reid and you have one of the best quarterbacks in the history of sport, luck doesn't really matter as much because you are able to win on those margins I think that's true. But it is entirely possible that, like you said, this is a better team with a worse record. I think it's likely, frankly, for me, that starts with the offense. You know, the Chiefs offense has just been kind of a bummer the last two years. They're still. What's hilarious is there's still a top 10 offense in most metrics and they're able to grind out these long, excruciating drives with like 6 yard completions. Patrick Mahomes is like the lowest average at the target of his career. Kind of a boring but moderately efficient run game. But the explosivity is gone, both in the run and the past. Especially the run, frankly, the zero explosive runs. I think getting Rashid Rice back will be huge. He's got a suspension looming. We'll see how that comes down. But I think people have forgotten how good he was the second half of his rookie season and then the beginning of this last one before he got hurt. And to me, he was just such a missing piece in this offense last year, especially because Patrick, Travis Kelsey, pardon me, I thought, was kind of overused, quite frankly, you know, and he obviously is near the end of his career. But they need another answer versus own coverage. Where she writes to me is that guy. So I am actually very optimistic about the elephants.
- [13:10]
Matt Jones
Do you. For somebody who. Who is in the weeds as much, you also though, like, appreciate celeb, don't you do like a podcast that's about Love island or something?
- [13:19]
Mina Kimes
Or tv. It's called viewer discretion. We talk about TV shows.
- [13:23]
Matt Jones
Okay. What? What? What? What? By the way, digression. I'm watching the Gilded Age. Have you been.
- [13:29]
Mina Kimes
Oh, my God, I love the Gilded Age.
- [13:30]
Matt Jones
No, you don't.
- [13:31]
Mina Kimes
I love it. It's so.
- [13:32]
Matt Jones
I don't know anyone else that watches it. You. You like the Gilded Age?
- [13:37]
Mina Kimes
You know what's so funny about that show? Extreme Regression here. I can't. I thought I would be able to get my husband to watch it. For those who don't know, it's like Downton Abbey in America. Basically. He thinks Christine Baranski's character on the Gilded Age is like the funniest person on television.
- [13:51]
Matt Jones
That's Agnes, right?
- [13:53]
Mina Kimes
Agnes, yeah.
- [13:54]
Matt Jones
Oh, she's the best. She's so mean, but has a little bit of a heart and it kind of. I like, I like, I like that a lot.
- [14:01]
Mina Kimes
Noted Bills fan, by the way. Christine Baranski.
- [14:03]
Matt Jones
Oh, is that right? I didn't know that. And then I know what it says about me now. Granted, I'm only through season one, so, I mean, you're probably ahead of. I really have a big crush on Bertha and I think. I don't know what that says about my personality, but I just do. And I. And then I think Marian is kind of a dud as a character, so I like her. I wish she wasn't in it, but like everyone else, I find awesome and all this, it seems like I like it so much because it's so much about things that are so unimportant that it makes it interesting to me.
- [14:36]
Mina Kimes
Oh, there'll be an entire episode where the central drama is that somebody prepared the soup the wrong for like a big dinner.
- [14:43]
Matt Jones
Exactly right.
- [14:43]
Mina Kimes
So stupid. But I love it. I will say you're a ways behind. Season three is the best one yet.
- [14:48]
Matt Jones
I've heard that. I've heard that. And I've heard it maybe expands and becomes a little more like about things because there's a lot going on like.
- [14:56]
Mina Kimes
The railroad industry and you know.
- [14:58]
Matt Jones
Yeah. And they actually teach you history. Like I learned that the Statue of Liberty, the torch set in New York for seven years before they could get the final. The rest of it, like, there's a lot. A lot you learned. How did I get off on that? I'm not sure, but. Oh, you do the TV thing. Travis Kelsey and Patrick Mahomes, are they the two most famous people in the NFL right now?
- [15:24]
Mina Kimes
Yes.
- [15:25]
Matt Jones
And they're in Kansas City. That's so weird. If you think about it, Travis Kelsey.
- [15:30]
Mina Kimes
Is probably more famous than Patrick Mahomes.
- [15:32]
Matt Jones
You think he is?
- [15:33]
Mina Kimes
If you're averaging all women and casual NFL fans, which is crazy.
- [15:41]
Matt Jones
It is crazy.
- [15:42]
Mina Kimes
Fans aren't NFL players. Pardon me, Aren't like that famous in. Cause, you know, the helmets.
- [15:48]
Matt Jones
You're. Exactly. It's fascinating how popular the sport is versus if you were to list the 50 most famous athletes in America, how few would be NFL players? Probably.
- [15:59]
Mina Kimes
Yeah. I was at. Speaking of NFL players in the news a lot. I was at the airport ahead of the super bowl, waiting for my luggage in New Orleans this year, standing next to Micah Parsons and nobody came up to him. He wasn't. He was just wearing street clothes. Micah Parsons is like one of the three best Ed Rushers in the. In football and he was not approached. It was crazy.
- [16:18]
Matt Jones
That. That is fascinating, but doesn't. Doesn't shock me. Do you. Do you think it was ultimately. Well, you're around players more than I am. What are the players think about the whole way for a couple years, the Taylor Swift thing Became part of it. I think it was good for the league, has to be good for the league. Do players sort of roll their eyes at it or they think it's kind of cool?
- [16:40]
Mina Kimes
I think they get it. They, they understand growing the league is important. They have women in their lives who love Taylor Swift, who are kind of invested in that. You know, players are smart about the business of the NFL and I 100% think it's good for the league too. No doubt.
- [16:57]
Matt Jones
Andy Reid has obviously had so much success over his career, but if you just look at him stereotypically, like you just look at his mustache and you look at him and you wouldn't think that that offensive mind is there, that it is what makes him so good that he can have had two kind of amazing runs in two different places and bring these offense. What, what is it that puts him or even like a Kyle Shanahan so much far ahead of everybody else?
- [17:27]
Mina Kimes
Both extraordinarily creative, I would say that. And they're both constantly iterating like the both of these offenses, which are very, very different, like really different. But they're both growing in response to trends in the league and also in response to the players at their disposal. Kyle Shanahan has evolved his run game so much. You know, beginning with the Niners, it was just this outside zone under center, wrenching attack that was we associate with the Shanahan tree. And then they would add new layers, it became more downhill, more gap based. The addition of Christian McCaffrey unlocked a lot in terms of what they were doing with their 21 personnel packages that he was just never doing before. His ability to create run past conflict and just constantly put linebackers in hell I think is really unmatched still. And then with Andy, you know, it's easy to point to him and say, well you have like arguably the most talented quarterback to ever play the position. But I'll tell you why he doesn't have the most talented group of skill players and hasn't has it in a few years. Yeah, yeah. And you know Travis Kelce obviously when he was at his peak, unbelievable answer, particularly against zone from a homes Tyreek Hill. Made life easier. But Andy's constantly had to evolve too. I mean the things that they do with for example, the Chiefs drafted first round draft pick Xavier Worthy last year and he was the guy who ran like a four two something, you know, the combine. So everyone's thinking he's just going to be downfield. And you know, it came I think apparent kind of early in the Season, he wasn't quite ready for that role, both in terms of getting off the line of scrimmage, winning downfield, tracking the ball, et cetera. So Andy iterated like during the season. He started using him different ways. He started manufacturing touches for him, got involved in the screen game, got him involved in man coverage beaters, found ways to get them open using bunches and the like. He's just always done that. He's just, you know, he's obviously, you know, he's not. He's an older coach now compared to rest of the NFL, but he. There's nothing old or archaic or set in his ways about the way he approaches offense.
- [19:27]
Matt Jones
I'm sorry, I got. I get a little distracted looking behind you at your bookcase because I am a nerdy reader and I see two books that I love right behind your head. First of all, Martyr, which I think is great. Have you assume you've read it, right?
- [19:41]
Mina Kimes
I have, yeah.
- [19:42]
Matt Jones
Did you like it?
- [19:43]
Mina Kimes
The writer is a friend of mine, so I'm a little biased.
- [19:46]
Matt Jones
Wait a minute. The writer is a friend of yours?
- [19:48]
Mina Kimes
Yeah. Isn't it beautiful?
- [19:49]
Matt Jones
I think it's amazing. I think it's.
- [19:51]
Mina Kimes
He loves sports, by the way. Huge hoops head.
- [19:54]
Matt Jones
Yeah, I think it's one of the best. Like, it was a book that I just bought it because it was on the New York Times 10 Best of the. So I bought. I buy all those. And it was by far. I mean, I'd read James, so I really liked that. But it was by far my favorite of the others and I knew nothing about it until I saw that. So that's crazy, you know. And then. Is that my brilliant friend behind you as well?
- [20:17]
Mina Kimes
Yeah, that is gilded age. And my brilliant friend, you.
- [20:21]
Matt Jones
I just read my brilliant taste. I just don't see that people in Kentucky would say, you're right about that. But I, It's. I love my brilliant friend. I don't want to have you read the other three. Are they good?
- [20:33]
Mina Kimes
I have. You know what's crazy? My son, I have a two year old now, just changed since we last talked. His name is Nino. Oh, is it really named after the character in the book? For those who have read the book, the character. There's a character named Nino is one of the main characters who's just like an fboy, basically.
- [20:49]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [20:50]
Mina Kimes
And I'm. And I'm like, I got the idea for the name, but he's not named after the character.
- [20:55]
Matt Jones
Yeah. And. Well, you also have liars poker. So you have some. You have some Masculine books there behind you as well. I'll stop looking at your. At your books there and then go X Men. Yeah, I'm not a superhero guy, you know. Clayton and Croom was founded on a simple idea. All leather goods should last a lifetime. They make everything from bags, belts, wallets, and much more. And the best part, they're doing it right here in Kentucky. You can check them out. Claytonandkrum.com that's C R U M E dot com. Or you can visit their flagship retail store in Louisville at 216 S. Shelby St. That's in Nulu. It's Clayton and Croom. Quality leather goods. Built to last. But Lamar. All right, so we're in Kentucky even though it's Louisville. People here follow Lamar Jackson a lot. There's a whole generation of Kentuckians who are Louisville fan, or excuse me, who are Baltimore fans because of Lamar. I remember when he was in college, Mark Stoops, the coach at Kentucky who had coached Miami during the glory days and Florida State during their glory days, said to me during his junior year of college, lamar Jackson's the best player I've ever seen at any position. Even though it's Louisville, I don't care. And I trying to be the Kentucky guy was like, oh, come on. Well, he was right. I mean, he certainly was right in college. In college, he. I've never seen anyone like him. Then he comes to pros. Dan Orlofsky and I used to fight because Dan said there's no way he'll be good in the pros. I took up for the Louisville guy. I was right. Don't let Dan get around you. He didn't think. He didn't think Lamar or Josh Allen would be good. We would fight on our pregame show about both of those. If he's honest, he'll admit it.
- [22:35]
Mina Kimes
But he really did send me those, those Lamar takes so that I can haunt Dan. I didn't know that both of them. I was wrong about Allen, though. I will say I was with him on Allen.
- [22:43]
Matt Jones
Were you? Well, he was. He did not think Lamar would be good. I find him to be the most fun player to watch in the NFL. Do you agree?
- [22:56]
Mina Kimes
Yeah, I. I think that's fair. Allen's close. Those two are just. I just what? How blessed are we to watch these two? I know, it's funny. The MVP debate got, like, so toxic last year, which is a shame because it's such a go. Like, I feel like these young quarterbacks are just unbelievable. And those two, you know, they have some Similarities, I think in the way they impact defenses and, and style of play and all of that. But Lamar like to me. So I, I was wrong about Alan, but I was right about Lamar. I did a piece ahead of the draft I actually co wrote with my buddy Dominique Foxworth, who I podcasted. And the headline of the piece was Lamar Jackson could change the NFL if the NFL would let it. Does right by him, basically. Yeah, that was our concern. We. We were both like blown away by his tape. We both felt it had been like misrepresented. People didn't even like, you know, watching Trina's offense and. But at that point, you know, like the NFL had a very different attitude towards dual threat quarterbacks. Just like eight years ago.
- [24:01]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [24:01]
Mina Kimes
And it's changed. So now it's like if you're not dual threat, the NFL is like. I don't know.
- [24:05]
Matt Jones
Aren't the two of them though, probably why that's changed? I mean, huge part of why.
- [24:09]
Mina Kimes
And they.
- [24:09]
Matt Jones
And they're both dual threats in different ways. Right. They have a completely different way of doing it.
- [24:14]
Mina Kimes
Josh Allen's gonna bulldoze you. Lamar Jackson's just the most. His ability to avoid contact, knock on wood, always is just. I've never seen anything like it in my life. But he was, I think, lucky in some ways to land with a very good franchise. One where they were very smart in how they approached the offense and then how they. They. John Harbaugh, to his credit, continued to grow that offense when it reached a limit with the prior offensive coordinator, Greg Roman. And he's just been. He's unbelievable. I think, like people don't appreciate what he did last. Like, I know that he was first team all pro, but he came close to breaking the NFL's passerate.
- [24:54]
Matt Jones
I know, that's amazing.
- [24:56]
Mina Kimes
Passer rating does not account. Like that's just. I don't even. I don't use passer rating because I prefer qbr because it accounts for opponent. And rushing. He's so accurate.
- [25:05]
Matt Jones
Yes.
- [25:05]
Mina Kimes
Now. And confident.
- [25:07]
Matt Jones
And he was at Louisville too. And I. It was interesting when he came in the draft because I watched him play all the time. Louisville was very good. I wanted him to lose every game. So I watched every game hoping he would lose and he would break your heart in so many different ways. And I felt like when I was listening to the draft process, when I was listening to NBA or NFL people talk about him, I'm like, did you watch the same player? It was like they were talking about the stereotype of what a Mobile, you know, to be real African American. Because that's the way they would talk about him. Quarterback. But it was like they hadn't seen him play. It's like, have you seen him play?
- [25:45]
Mina Kimes
Yeah, like I, I. The way people talked about the offense, I was convinced that they didn't actually watch.
- [25:50]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [25:50]
Mina Kimes
What he did because he was. He's always been smart. He's always been really good at reading the field. I think the thing that just has improved is accuracy. I think he has definitely gotten more accurate as. So is Josh Allen, by the way. Both of them. Right. And yeah, it's been remarkable to watch their trajectory because I think sometimes when we think about NFL quarterbacks, we think, okay, you come in, you're accurate, you're not accur. You stay that way. And both of them are proof that you can just get better as a quarterback. Go on. I mean, the, what they're doing right now, those two guys, it's unbelievable how good they've become.
- [26:22]
Matt Jones
Yeah. I felt like he had to deal specifically Lamar, with some, to be quite frank with you, slightly old racist stereotypes of what a black quarterback was. And I thought that was. And he, he has helped. I think those are gone now. And I think. And I think he has. He has been a huge part of that. And Josh Allen, I would watch late at night on CBS Sports Network in their ugly Wyoming uniforms and I'd be like, who's this guy? And, and, and now is he destined to be cursed or is this. Do they finally get over the hump? It feels like this is the year if they're going to do it right.
- [27:05]
Mina Kimes
Either of those two teams, those. I think those are the two best teams in the afc, just outside the Eagles in the NFL and actually this crazy stat. So I like to use FT and Fantasy. Formerly Football Outsiders has this DVOA stat which basically, you know, looks at total efficiency and opponent. It's smart. Football fans, if you want to know how good a team is an offensive defense, and according to their metrics, the stretch that the Bills and the Ravens have had over the last three or four years with Alan Lamar are both the best individual stretches by any teams that have not made it to the Super Bowl. They just are cursed to be playing in the Patrick Bohem's era of football. There's. So, I mean, both of those teams, I think, are more complete than the Chiefs. The Ravens in particular. That defense is really good. I thought they were the two best teams, but it just, sometimes it happens.
- [27:57]
Matt Jones
Mark Andrews catches that. It's a completely different A completely, completely different situation. So I'm a Bears fan. Caleb Williams, I was very excited when he got picked. I enjoyed watching him last year. I actually think the criticisms of him to be quite frank you with. I also think people didn't necessarily watch the games. I mean he, his, his stats are not very much different than Drake Maze and Bo Nix's but people talk about him a different way. They lost a ton of one score games. I feel like now you have Ben Johnson, you improve the offensive line. Do we see a big leap from him this year?
- [28:35]
Mina Kimes
I think so, but I do urge folks to have a little patience. You know this is a whole new offense, new coach, like the pieces of the offense, new interior offensive.
- [28:49]
Matt Jones
Is it very different? You know more about it than I do. Is it?
- [28:53]
Mina Kimes
I think there's going to be some similarities.
- [28:55]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [28:56]
Mina Kimes
Right. But you know the Lions offense was so specific. Jared Goff under center play action, throwing over the middle of the field. He was like a machine. That's an offense that was built around his skill set. Caleb's a slightly different quarterback. I think he can do that. You know, I think he's a good play action quarterback. I think he could play under center. I think he's accurate. But Ben is going to have to evolve his offense not just around Caleb but like the play. They none of those receivers are like I'm going to Ross St. Brown. They're good receivers. I really like Ramadun say I really think he can be better this year but you know they're going to use him in a slightly different way. The run game is not as good. You know, the offensive line I think should be a lot better. It just might take a second for all these pieces to come together. Some of my optimism with the Bears actually is not about the offense. I think the defense is going to show some significant improvement this year. One of my favorite kind of under the radar hires of the offseason was Dennis Allen coming in as the defensive coordinator. That man struggled as a head coach but let me tell you, he can coach defense and I think his style of defense which is more aggressive, more main coverage is a good fit for the Bears defense which does have really good players. So I wouldn't be surprised if even if the offense takes a little bit, you do see some improvement in the defense early on.
- [30:10]
Matt Jones
I got to be one of the few people who would have you on and ask a question about Jacksonville early but in Kentucky we follow it a little bit. A because Josh Heinz Allen like could run for. Could run for governor. Kentucky People like him so much. But also, Liam Cohen is someone that everyone at Kentucky. He coached here twice over the course of three years and is odd. He was odd when he was here. He was odd.
- [30:38]
Mina Kimes
Elaborate. I want to hear your take on.
- [30:40]
Matt Jones
Well, okay. So he's like a nerdy savant who wants to be cool. But unlike Mike McDaniel who thinks he's cool, Liam knows he's not. So he's trying really hard and self aware. He is self aware. I would agree. But he also is like, really smart, which is why I liked him a lot. He was here, Kentucky was really good. He goes to the Rams, they have a terrible offense. Then he comes back and they're good again. So we saw literally what he do and what would happen when he left. He's now known to most NFL people as Duvall. Like, that's what they know him as. What do you think he's going to be as a head coach? I feel like he's improved everywhere he's been. The Rams, Tampa Bay, and then both times at Kentucky. Do you think it works as a head coach?
- [31:31]
Mina Kimes
I do. First of all, the Duval thing, it's not the way he. Or what that. The voice. It was the head motion that really.
- [31:38]
Matt Jones
No, it epitomize. That one word epitomizes who he is. Like, that's. If you. What you. If you. You only saw that and you were thinking, who is this guy, Mina? That's what he is.
- [31:50]
Mina Kimes
Fair enough. I will say this. I have learned to not judge head coaches by first impressions. Right. There's just been so many examples of Stan Campbell in Detroit, Nick Sirianni in Philadelphia, I would say Jonathan Gannon in Arizona, I think has done a really good job there. He had kind of unusual introduction to the world. Coaching personalities too. Like what works and what doesn't. It's all over the map in the NFL. I'm optimistic about that hire because I thought the Bucs offense was one of the most interesting and cleverly designed units in all football last year. He was. And. And you know, they lost players along the way and obviously Chris Godwin early on was big, but I thought he was fantastic at changing the run game as the season went on. His screen game was exceptional. The way he sequenced plays, the run pass, all of it was really effective. And he also got really great play out the young quarterback. And that's kind of what he's being tasked with, right, is improving Trevor Lawrence's performance. If Travis Hunter is the best receiver in this draft, as you know, I think Obviously he was drafted that way. The combination of him, Brian Thompson is insane. Like this could be a really. I'm a little worried about the offensive line, but I think you could see a really significant leap from this. Jags offense, Jags defense. I don't know so much. That's a, that's a tough group. But the offense I think could take a leap.
- [33:25]
Matt Jones
I, you know, I mean we don't produce a lot of NFL quarterbacks at Kentucky and both people that he touched at least made the NFL. Will Levis. Who knows what his future will be. Devin Leary is the backup in Baltimore, third string in Baltimore and he like he guys were better when he was the offensive coordinator. So it's not popular to like him now because he left both times in sort of shady manner and then he did the same thing in Tampa Bay as well. But I just feel like he's going to be good. I guess we'll have to find out. Mike McDaniel, I call him Captain Nerd on ESPN because of his socks and his shoes and all that. But also I'm surprised that they struggled last year. He seems like he really be really smart. I feel like he's kind of on the hot seat.
- [34:17]
Mina Kimes
Do you quietly. Even though they just got extended Because I think with the Dolphins, like you could say, well, you know, you lost tool for a lot of the season, you had injuries. How much can you really blame him? And I think there's some veracity to that. But I think because they keep losing in the same way.
- [34:39]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [34:40]
Mina Kimes
And they're not. And I personally think it's more about the GM frankly than the, than the head coach there you get to encounter like some fatigue where people, fans are like, we know how this movie's gonna end. Right. And we're not gonna be able to run the ball at the end of the season and protect the quarterback. And is he going to make plays in January? So I think for him, if he doesn't show some sort of growth, if the offense doesn't show some sort of growth. Pardon me, particularly in the run game which was really bad last year. I do think he could be a sneaky hot seat guy. Defense also a lot of holes in that secondary. Not super optimistic about that group. Which is crazy because we're not that long ago, you know the Denver game where they beat them by, you know, zillion points. That was not that long ago. We were on TV saying they're changing the NFL. This is crazy. And it just goes to show you how hard it is to have Sustained success.
- [35:33]
Matt Jones
When Tua gets hit, is there a part of, like, are you still to the point where you sort of cringe? I mean, I do, and I know it's him. Yeah, I'm for him. That's what I mean. Like, is there still a part of you that says, hey, man. Because I. I mean, ultimately it's his choice what to do, but I still find myself, like, his hits hurt me more than anybody else's in some ways.
- [35:56]
Mina Kimes
Yeah. It's hard to watch. I mean, when he went out for the season, for part of the season, I think the next day on NFL Live, a lot of the players I work with were kind of shaky about whether they wanted to continue watching him play football. And obviously it's his choice, but. And that's, you know, that's not something I think we heard from players that often in the past. I think even an NFL. I think it was. It was. It was. What's his name was coaching the Raiders last year before Antonio Pierce came out and said like, yeah, he should probably retire.
- [36:27]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [36:28]
Mina Kimes
That's so unusual to hear, especially for.
- [36:29]
Matt Jones
NFL guys to say about each. Yeah, 100.
- [36:33]
Mina Kimes
But it's real. I think there's a lot of that feeling and, you know, people forget until he gets hit again and then it'll come back. Come back again.
- [36:40]
Matt Jones
Yeah. I don't know if you're going to like that. I say this so you don't have to agree, but I find Aaron Rodgers to be the least. He is my least favorite athlete maybe ever. I mean, I didn't ever. I can't think of one I like less because, I mean, I'm sure there are obviously people who've committed, like, crimes and things that. Put those away. Okay. Put that. But if you're just talking about who I find annoying, he has to be number one. And a big part of it is his whole post Covid in, you know, ayahuasca enlightened phase. But. But, you know, ultimately, America forgives people if they're good. So is he good?
- [37:21]
Mina Kimes
It wasn't good last year.
- [37:23]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [37:23]
Mina Kimes
And he's on the wrong side of 40, so the odds are against it. And wasn't good last year is a little bit of an oversimplification. But, you know, I. The way I would describe, because I get asked about him a lot, like, can he still play? Right. Yes, but not in the same way.
- [37:41]
Matt Jones
Yes, but no.
- [37:42]
Mina Kimes
You know, yeah, right. He. He said he. Look, if he was in an incredible off. If he was in the Vikings, there was like, whispers about that. I'd be pretty optimistic about that offense. He still has arm strength as he hasn't lost it. What is gone is the playmaking ability, which was a big part of his game. Right. That ability to, you know, he made all these crazy off platform throws from muddy pockets or the escapes.
- [38:06]
Matt Jones
He was smart. He could make a decision that nobody.
- [38:09]
Mina Kimes
Else could see and super, super smart and the vision was unbelievable. His ability to manipulate safeties and all great. But I think as you've seen some of those things degrade over the years, the margins just get smaller and smaller. I thought with the jets, saw the highlight reel throws every now and then, but you also saw a lot of him just kind of not wanting to play in the structure of the offense because he didn't want to get hit or whatnot. And so when I look to the Steelers now it's an offensive line in transition. You really only have one DK Metcalf as your wide receiver. 1. It's kind of an unusual pairing in some ways. So, you know, I think they could be fine. I think offensively they could tread water, but I'm not, I don't. You know, he's not a top 10 quarterback anymore. And I think anyone who's expecting that is probably.
- [38:56]
Matt Jones
I think people over overlook the guy who's 38 and older and doesn't want to get hit factor. Don't you think that's a big thing for. It was like that for Tom Brady, even as good as he was, that like they just don't want to get hit, which I get it. I'm. I'm in my 40s, I don't want to get hit. But like they're still playing. I get. Do you, do you agree with that?
- [39:16]
Mina Kimes
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there are young guys who don't want to get hit too, but yeah, it is a big.
- [39:21]
Matt Jones
That's true.
- [39:22]
Mina Kimes
It's a big thing with, with the older quarterbacks for sure. Like, you know, I talked about Jared Goff, who's pocket quarterback, right. Jared Goff's giving you basically nothing in terms of mobility, but that dude will stand in there and take a hit.
- [39:34]
Matt Jones
Yeah, he will.
- [39:35]
Mina Kimes
It allows that offense to be very explosive. And when you are pocket quarterback and you don't want to absorb that kind of contact anymore and you're speeding up your throws, it just kind of limits the offense in ways that are different from earlier in your career.
- [39:48]
Matt Jones
I think, I think most people would agree the top four quarterbacks are in some order. Mahomes, Allen, Jackson Burrow. I think most people Agree with that.
- [39:58]
Mina Kimes
Yeah.
- [39:59]
Matt Jones
So I assume you agree with that too.
- [40:00]
Mina Kimes
Yeah.
- [40:00]
Matt Jones
So who's number five?
- [40:03]
Mina Kimes
I think it's Herbert.
- [40:04]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [40:05]
Mina Kimes
Justin Herbert. You know, the Jada Daniels had a fantastic rookie season, but we gotta, you know, pump the brakes a little bit. Let's see.
- [40:11]
Matt Jones
We could have said that about C.J. stroud the year before.
- [40:14]
Mina Kimes
Right. Who also, you know, like, you saw, wow, terrible offensive line. You see the way that impacts the quarterback. You could never underestimate how much context matters for a quarterback and situation. But yeah, I think Herbert to me, just, you know, over the course of now several seasons, you see the top end arm, talent, accuracy, good decision making. And I know people hate it when you bring this up with Herbert without much help. You know, the offensive line has been pretty bad at times. Run game was sucked last year. Not a good group of receivers. Lad Bacon Key was his number one. So I think you do have to take that into account when you watch him.
- [40:59]
Matt Jones
I always joke that I've never met a Chargers fan, so. Because I just. I think it's the most obscure in terms of fan base because. Because they. I did used to see him when they were in San Diego, but they're not anymore. What do you think in terms of Mina Kime's walks through airports? What fan base do you see the least?
- [41:21]
Mina Kimes
Ooh, the least.
- [41:24]
Matt Jones
Okay, because anybody could say Cowboys, Steelers, whatever, for the most.
- [41:27]
Mina Kimes
But who's the least?
- [41:29]
Matt Jones
Who's the most obscure of the fan bases?
- [41:32]
Mina Kimes
I don't see a lot of Bucks fans. I'll throw.
- [41:34]
Matt Jones
I have a Bucks fan as my producer right now. He just. He threw his hands up in the air.
- [41:39]
Mina Kimes
But yes, okay, I like Bucks fans and they're really appreciative when you talk about that. So I like small market fan bases because when you talk about them, they get excited. We're here. Thank you. Praise our guy Bucks. I don't see a ton of Jags. Weirdly I do. They're vocal. But.
- [41:56]
Matt Jones
Well, because there's a big area. Like the thing about. Sometimes with fan bases, you have to think not just about the city, but the area in Jacksonville gets a whole panhandle and they get their, you know, the. They get. That's parts of Alabama and, you know, so like you. Sometimes you have to look at it like Cincinnati Bengals. Cincinnati's not a huge state, but they get most of Kentucky and they get most of Southern Ohio.
- [42:17]
Mina Kimes
So I see a lot of angles fans. I would say the third one would be maybe Cardinals. A ton of Cardinals fans.
- [42:23]
Matt Jones
You never see a Cardinals Fan in my life.
- [42:25]
Mina Kimes
Yeah. Outside Arizona.
- [42:26]
Matt Jones
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- [43:36]
Mina Kimes
It's called viewer discretion. So we're doing the season of Perfect Match is a reality show next week. But then after that, we're gonna start the new Alien show, which I'm really excited about. Alien?
- [43:47]
Matt Jones
Perfect Match? What is that? Is that another little dating show? Okay, all right, go ahead. So there's that. And then you're doing an alien show.
- [43:54]
Mina Kimes
Alien. The new Noah Holly show. He did Fargo. If you watch that. Fargo. So it's his new show. And then I think I want to talk about Chief of War, which is the new.
- [44:03]
Matt Jones
It's Jason Momoa, right? Okay.
- [44:05]
Mina Kimes
Yeah. It's basically. Did you watch Shogun? It's like Shogun Hawaii.
- [44:07]
Matt Jones
Love Shogun. Yeah.
- [44:09]
Mina Kimes
Then you'll love this. You should watch it. There's only been two episodes.
- [44:11]
Matt Jones
Yeah, there's a woman I know that wants to see it because isn't he just like in a little loincloth most of the time? Okay, so I judge people by this, so I'm gonna judge you by it. Three best Mina Kimes dramas of all time. Three best comedies of all time.
- [44:28]
Mina Kimes
TV, TV or movies?
- [44:30]
Matt Jones
TV. Not movies. TV. TVs. Movies is. Anybody can do two hours. TVs, like a longer period of time.
- [44:37]
Mina Kimes
Lifetime okay. TV. I'm gonna go with the Leftovers, which is my favorite show.
- [44:42]
Matt Jones
I've never seen that.
- [44:43]
Mina Kimes
Worth it, dude, it's so good.
- [44:46]
Matt Jones
Okay. I'm putting it on the list because of you.
- [44:48]
Mina Kimes
A good show.
- [44:50]
Matt Jones
That's the one. There's been an apocalypse, and then.
- [44:52]
Mina Kimes
Yeah, okay. All right.
- [44:53]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [44:55]
Mina Kimes
Or it's not apocalypse, but like, half. Like, 2% of the world goes missing.
- [45:00]
Matt Jones
I thought it was apocalypse. So 2% of the world goes missing.
- [45:03]
Mina Kimes
It's very much about. It's a show about, like, grief, which I realize is not the best advertisement for the show, but it is beautiful.
- [45:08]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [45:08]
Mina Kimes
So good. I love the show Halt and Catch Fire.
- [45:11]
Matt Jones
I like that. I saw the first season, and then I haven't seen the rest.
- [45:15]
Mina Kimes
It get. Dude, season two and three are even better.
- [45:17]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [45:18]
Mina Kimes
First season. It gets better and better as it goes on.
- [45:20]
Matt Jones
It's like an AMC show, right? Wasn't that what.
- [45:22]
Mina Kimes
That was amc? Yeah. I don't know where it's available now. And then best of all time. Shoot.
- [45:30]
Matt Jones
These are good choices because normally there's like a group of seven or eight. The Wire, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men. And I like that you're giving a couple kind of off the beaten path a little.
- [45:42]
Mina Kimes
I love Friday Night Lights, the TV show.
- [45:44]
Matt Jones
Nice. Okay.
- [45:45]
Mina Kimes
Drama, right?
- [45:46]
Matt Jones
That's a great show.
- [45:47]
Mina Kimes
The rare show that rebooted halfway through and didn't get worse, which is crazy. Now you're like, well, yeah, it was Michael B. Jordan, but he wasn't Michael B. Jordan. Michael B. Jordan at the time.
- [45:58]
Matt Jones
Yeah. I thought at the end it got a little weird.
- [46:02]
Mina Kimes
A little. A little bit.
- [46:03]
Matt Jones
But yes. But I thought that's a really good one. All right, Comedies. This is actually how I really judge people as comedies. What do you think is funny?
- [46:13]
Mina Kimes
Eastbound and Down.
- [46:14]
Matt Jones
Oh, great.
- [46:16]
Mina Kimes
My favorite comedy.
- [46:17]
Matt Jones
I don't think I would have picked that for you, but I like it.
- [46:19]
Mina Kimes
Really?
- [46:19]
Matt Jones
Yes.
- [46:20]
Mina Kimes
Danny McBride is like my true north. Like, I. I feel like if I could hang out with any person, really have the career of any person, I just think the way that dude, you know, he, like, lives in North Carolina and just makes shit with his friends. And it's really funny and good.
- [46:34]
Matt Jones
I love. Steve Zahn is a. Steve Zahn is a friend of ours. He lives in Kentucky, and he did Righteous Gemstones with him. And he talked about how. How they. Like, what the. The scenes in that abandoned church. He couldn't find the church he wanted. He said, you know, Danny McBride, and he was driving down the street in South Carolina and they saw this church on the side of the road, and it was abandoned, and he wanted to film in there, so they just started. And then a guy showed up and said, this is my church. If you want to film here, you got to pay me. And Danny McBride said, okay, how much? And he said, $5,000, $3,000. Whatever. Danny pays it. The next day, a different guy shows up. The original person he paid didn't own the church. He had just come and demanded payment. And he said that Danny McBride was like, well, that, you know, that's what I get. All right, what are your other two?
- [47:30]
Mina Kimes
Okay. Deep cut show I always recommend to people. It's called Patriot. It's on Amazon.
- [47:36]
Matt Jones
Heard of it?
- [47:37]
Mina Kimes
It was only two seasons. It's about a depressed spy, and it's funny. It's one of. I think it's a masterpiece.
- [47:43]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [47:44]
Mina Kimes
Very few people have ever seen this show, but it's like one of those shows where if you meet someone who's seen it, you have, like, an instant line.
- [47:50]
Matt Jones
Okay? And it's funny. It's a comedy.
- [47:52]
Mina Kimes
It's a comedy.
- [47:52]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [47:53]
Mina Kimes
It's very, like, Coen Brothers, Y kind of vibes, if you like Coen Brothers. And then I feel like I should pick, like, a. I mean, I love Veep. If I'm going pound for pound, joke for joke. The funniest show. I think Beep is one of the funniest shows.
- [48:11]
Matt Jones
I am so glad you said that, because my list always starts with Veep. I think Veep and BoJack Horseman are my two favorite. But Veep, no show in history has had better joke to joke to joke to joke.
- [48:26]
Mina Kimes
You can take any clip from Veep from any season, any episode, and I'll just lose it if I watch it in its entirety online.
- [48:33]
Matt Jones
It's also one of the few shows that, over the course of it, adds characters, and it still works when they add characters, you know, 100%.
- [48:41]
Mina Kimes
All the minor characters, like her daughter, like, they're all so funny. I. Yeah. Beep and.
- [48:47]
Matt Jones
Oh, I love that. All right, you. I don't. I gotta ask you about this because, you know, I am a political person. I know you're not necessarily, but you end up getting dragged into things, and it annoys me as someone that likes you, because for a certain segment of people that want to politicize everything ESPN does, you know, they've. They've had these targets over the years. Years. And some of their targets are no longer there. Right. Jamel Hill, Bomani Jones, Pablo Torre. You still are. And it still happens. And it makes me mad. Even though we're not close friends, I get mad from afar at them, at them doing it. How do you handle that? Because Jamel Hill, Bomani Jones, especially Will would punch back. Pablo doesn't as much, although he does a little. You don't. So how do you deal with that? Does it bother you?
- [49:43]
Mina Kimes
It bothers me not to be attacked, but to be misrepresented.
- [49:48]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [49:48]
Mina Kimes
Do you feel this way too? Like, I don't care if I say something and I'm standing on it. I don't care if somebody's mad, whether it's a football take or something about the real world. If I'm quoted accurately and people are angry about it, Godspeed. I only get upset when I see my, like, words taken out of context or twisted or things. Then that. That. So just to be kind of, I guess, transparent, that's when I get upset about it. But I've also learned you can't fight, like, misrepresentation on the Internet. It's like, impossible. It's like punching ghosts. So.
- [50:21]
Matt Jones
But sometimes I feel like they attack you. Not based on anything you said. You're just like. It's like they. It's what really annoys me and I is is there's a segment of, especially men, white conservative men, who just see you as an example of a hire that shouldn't be talking about football. And you know much more about football than I do, without question. And I could have your job and they wouldn't say a word to me, but they'll say it to you. And that annoys me, huh? No, I wouldn't be good because, you know, like, you're talking about, you know, but bunch pack packages and all this stuff, like, you. You really know it. That's got to annoy you because you are overly qualified with knowledge. Does that annoy you?
- [51:11]
Mina Kimes
Philosophy. I think now more than ever. I just try to remember to touch grass if, like, I honestly should get that, like, tattooed on my arm so I don't forget it. Because whenever I feel that, like, the voices you're describing are overwhelming or whatever. A couple things. One, they almost never actually consume my work. Yes, it's so. Which is, by the way, I think, true of a lot. It's not just me. You got to really remember that. Right. Like, most of the people who are attacking, especially on an identity basis, don't actually listen to you talk about the sport or engage with it in a meaningful way. And then when I actually do get to, like, touch grass and like, go to the combine or I'm out in the field or I'm at games. Nobody in football is like that.
- [51:54]
Matt Jones
They're not. That's great.
- [51:56]
Mina Kimes
Oh, my God. Coaches, executives, they just want to talk ball. They're not. And I think it's just such an important reminder that, you know, you got this, like, loud, disgruntled minority who are just kind of looking for something to be mad at if somebody who represents something. But the more attention you give them, I think one, it feeds it a little bit. But it also is just a waste of time, frankly, because they're not representative at all of, like, the people who matter.
- [52:22]
Matt Jones
You don't respond a lot, but when you do, you have some clapbacks that I love and I do. I consume very little media. That's not. I don't know if you're like this. I have a hard time consuming people that do what I do. I just don't, I guess maybe just because I do it. So I don't. So I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. The point being, okay, but I've always listened to Simmons and Russello and Russello made that comment about something when they hired. And they. And he made you as the joke. I don't remember what it was. Something about inside the NBA and he was like, mina comes or something. And I was, can't. I don't know why I get so defensive. I was really upset at him. I was like, rusillo, you're better than that dude. Plus, aren't you all friends? And then you responded with something like you just did it for taxes or whatever his famous line was during the protest.
- [53:17]
Mina Kimes
Decaf for the Priscilla heads.
- [53:18]
Matt Jones
That was a deep cut.
- [53:20]
Mina Kimes
And I. I like him. I like that podcast, too.
- [53:23]
Matt Jones
I like surprised he said that.
- [53:25]
Mina Kimes
Literally my favorite podcast. I think I agree. I've said this before. When he does his travel podcasts, I think they're art.
- [53:32]
Matt Jones
They are. When it went to New Zealand or whatever. Yeah.
- [53:35]
Mina Kimes
The most, like, strangest, most interesting documentary tone. I love them.
- [53:40]
Matt Jones
But were you like, were you bummed by that? Because I know you like him and you are friendly and he used you as the punchline of the joke in a way that I thought was kind of crappy. You did have an awesome comeback, though.
- [53:50]
Mina Kimes
My feeling is just if somebody makes a joke about me, I'm going to make a joke back. Love them. So. That's right. I get that a lot, though, that that sort of joke set up and punchline. Like anytime something at ESPN happens, like something gets fired or we buy something or whatever. You know, the kind of portion of the Internet you're talking about does what he did, which is they say, ooh, now Red Zone is gonna be host. By meaning Kimes or mean it. They're gonna force. The joke is that it's. ESPN is forcing non white women mostly onto programming. And that. That's the joke that. I mean, I see it all the.
- [54:27]
Matt Jones
Time, constantly, and I expect it from idiots, but I just didn't expect it from him. And I think that was what bothered him.
- [54:35]
Mina Kimes
Text about that. Yeah, I think a lot of people didn't expect.
- [54:37]
Matt Jones
I think a lot of people. Well, because if you've listened to him over the. I mean, I listened to him going back to Van Pelt, I was just disappointed. I wasn't mad. I was just disappointed that that was the joke.
- [54:45]
Mina Kimes
I haven't heard from him on it, but like I said, I just feel like, okay, I'll make a joke back.
- [54:49]
Matt Jones
All right. Last thing. Dan. Dan Orlovsky went my very first day at ESPN Radio. You know, I'd waited like my whole life to get that opportunity back. Then they would fly me to ESPN every Sunday morning to do a radio show, which is kind of.
- [55:06]
Mina Kimes
I remember this.
- [55:06]
Matt Jones
It's kind of bizarre that they did that back then, but they would. And Dan would drive up from Philadelphia, and so it'd be me, Dan and Myron Metcalf. And the first day I walked in.
- [55:16]
Mina Kimes
Love him.
- [55:16]
Matt Jones
The first day I walked in, I had never been on espn. Dan had never been on radio, really. And Myron had never done the NFL. So we were all kind of terrified. I knew nothing about the NFL. I didn't even watch the NFL when they hired me to do this, as crazy as this sounds. So we come in and I'm like, I have notes on every NFL team because I didn't know anything.
- [55:43]
Mina Kimes
Good for you.
- [55:44]
Matt Jones
And Dan is sitting in a dark booth in the ESPN radio section by himself. I'm not going to say he was shaking, but he was kind of shaking. He was terrified. And he and I had never met each other. So I knock on the door and I walk in, and he is clearly nervous. I am terrified. And I look at him and I'm like, hey, man, we meet. And then I go, are you nervous? And he was like, yes, because it was his first thing for espn, too. He'd never done anything for espn. And I said, well, I am too. And he goes, why are you nervous? And I said, I really don't know anything about football. And he goes, well, I don't really know anything about radio. And I said, all right, I got the radio, you got the football. Let's go. And we did, and we had a blast. We got better as the year went on. He, of course, you knew within a few weeks, he was on a rocket ship. You could just tell. You could just see like this was what it was going to be. But I will, no matter how big he gets. When he re signed his contract, I texted him. I'll remember walking into that little closet studio.
- [56:59]
Mina Kimes
I love that.
- [57:00]
Matt Jones
And seeing him nervous and me being the same way and being like, so I'm always so proud of him. And I hope I know, you know, he's as nice a guy as he seems.
- [57:10]
Mina Kimes
I mean, he is literally like a brother to me at this point. And I think what I people don't know about our show is Dan was the only person I was really friends with before I started doing NFL Live. When they rebooted it in 2020 with myself, Laura, Marcus, and Ryan and Dan, you know, it was kind of an experiment. They were like, let's just throw these people together. And Laura and Ryan, or Laura and Marcus, pardon me, had done a lot of SEC stuff together. Of course, Dan and I were just football nerd friends. I had had him. I don't even know how we met, but, like, we just kind of connected on some real nerd shit. And. And then we're just kind of texting. I had him on podcast. He was not. He was doing some of the morning shows and stuff. I was doing my thing around the horn and whatnot, but we had not worked together, but, like, that kind of nerd friendship foundation of just loving, geeking out about football and getting so psyched about the just the dorkiest shit. That's really what the show was built on in a lot of ways, from my perspective, that relationship. And so, yeah, I'm so grateful to work with him. He challenges me so much, too. Like, challenges all of us, I think, because he's constantly pushing himself to be better and he works so hard, as, you know.
- [58:22]
Matt Jones
Yes, he did. He would sit there. You know, they have that room where everybody watches the games, right, in Bristol, and we would leave our show and go sit in that room. And here was one of the things that was great. It was me and him and Myron. Myron and I knew no one in that room. Like, it's all the NFL people, football people. It's like he could have. He knew everybody. He could easily have left us to sit with all of his football friends because there was all the Randy Moss.
- [58:48]
Mina Kimes
It's like a high school cafeteria. Literally is in the cafeteria.
- [58:51]
Matt Jones
And he would do, he would say hi, all of them. But he would sit with me and Myron and he would make like Myron and I not feel like we were completely by ourselves in this. And I, I just love the guy and I, I, I, you know, I love that story.
- [59:06]
Mina Kimes
Thank you for telling me about. That's so cute to think back and, yeah, think about how far he's come.
- [59:11]
Matt Jones
I'm really, I'm, I'm proud of him. And I'm proud of you even. And I wish you the best. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this. Mina.
- [59:18]
Mina Kimes
This was fun. I'd love to do it again during the season now that you're an NFL guy.
- [59:22]
Matt Jones
Well, barely. Give me a call during the off season. I'm gonna make you do a book one with me since it's clear you're a reader.
- [59:29]
Mina Kimes
Gilded H Pod win. You and me, dude.
- [59:31]
Matt Jones
I would do it. Thanks. Appreciate it.
- [59:33]
Mina Kimes
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- [59:47]
Matt Jones
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- [59:50]
Mina Kimes
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