Episode 18 - Andy Barr

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Interrupted by Matt Jones"

Episode 18: Andy Barr
Host: Matt Jones (iHeartPodcasts)
Guest: Congressman Andy Barr
Date: August 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Matt Jones sits down for a wide-ranging conversation with U.S. Congressman Andy Barr, marking Barr as the first sitting politician featured on the show. The discussion delves into political polarization, the state of civility in public discourse, election integrity, policy debates around free speech and gerrymandering, economic issues, and cultural matters such as LGBTQ+ rights and faith in politics. The interview is notable for its civil tone, willingness to tackle contentious subjects, and mutual respect—even amidst disagreement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Civility and Political Polarization

[03:08–08:59]

• Polarization in Politics:

  • Jones opens by crediting Barr for engaging with media that doesn’t always share his views, lamenting that such openness is increasingly rare.
  • Barr attributes increasing divisiveness to a "gotcha mentality" and a lack of civil exchange, stating, “What I think the American people want is a refreshing exchange of ideas in a respectful and civil way.” (Barr, 03:26)

• Rhetoric and Responsibility:

  • Jones asks if political rhetoric has gotten out of hand. Barr acknowledges:
    “You can disagree with people without being disagreeable.” (Barr, 04:51)
  • Barr repeatedly underscores the importance of free speech, even when it’s combative, as fundamental to American democracy.
    “If you’re going to err on the side of anything, to me, the American response is to err on the side of free speech.” (Barr, 08:22)

• On Extreme Rhetoric:

  • Jones pushes for leadership that denounces extreme accusations (e.g., calling opponents Nazis), referencing John McCain’s 2008 campaign as a positive example.
  • Barr agrees the rhetoric should be toned down and stresses, “Political violence in any direction is wrong.” (Barr, 08:22)

2. Free Speech, College Campuses, and Federal Funding

[09:11–11:51]

• First Amendment Advocacy:

  • Barr declares Trump “the greatest champion of the First Amendment in a very long time, if not in the history of our country.” (Barr, 09:11)
  • Jones questions how withholding funding from universities over “unwelcome” viewpoints or antisemitism squares with free speech.

• Nuances of Funding and Speech:

  • Barr argues: “No university is just entitled to federal money... when you have active antisemitism that creates unsafe environments for Jewish students... that doesn’t exempt them from the purse strings. I think it’s a good thing Congress is scrutinizing.” (Barr, 10:04)

3. Friendship Across the Aisle & Performative Partisanship

[12:06–14:32]

• Bipartisan Relationships:
  • Barr affirms he has genuine friendships with ideological opponents, offering the example of Juan Vargas, “a progressive liberal from Southern California,” with whom he shares conversations about family and faith.
    “Why can’t we treat each other with [respect] in public?” (Barr, 12:12)
  • Jones and Barr both lament how performative hatred, especially on TV or in soundbites, is not reflective of private relationships.

4. Gerrymandering and Electoral Reform

[14:32–21:40]

• On Competitive Districts:

  • Jones critiques gerrymandering for fueling extremism, congratulates Barr for serving a purple district, and floats a nationwide ban.
  • Barr demurs, supporting district compaction but wary of delegating map drawing to “elites” or “arbitrary computer[s].”
    “I'd much rather it be a democratic process than an undemocratic process.” (Barr, 20:02)

• Acknowledgement of Both Sides:

  • Both agree that redistricting abuses occur regardless of which party is in charge.
    “It happens to both parties. And wrong both ways.” (Barr, 19:50)

5. 2020 Election Legitimacy

[22:01–27:46]

• Certification and Ambiguity:

  • Jones praises Barr for voting to certify Biden’s 2020 win, but presses repeatedly for a direct acknowledgment that “Joe Biden won the 2020 election.”
  • Barr avoids a direct yes or no:
    “I believe that election had a ton of abnormalities... I certified the election results.” (Barr, 22:29 & 24:13)

• Pushback and Public Perception:

  • Jones voices disappointment in Barr’s equivocation, expressing concern about the precedent for both parties:
    “If we can't look in the camera and say... how do we expect constituents who know much less than you to believe it?” (Jones, 25:15)

• Barr’s Rationale:

  • Barr explains his vote against contesting the election as rooted in constitutional principles and a desire to prevent congressional overreach.

6. Policy: Trade, Tariffs, and Inflation

[29:04–34:19]

• Trade Stance Evolution:

  • Despite being for free trade, Barr supports Trump’s tariffs, arguing, “We don’t have free trade... there are so many of our trading partners that have tariff and non tariff trade barriers that are closed to American exporters.” (Barr, 29:04)

• Inflation Causes:

  • Barr blames inflation largely on Democratic overspending, labor policies, and delayed Fed action:
    “It was a toxic policy mix that made the cost of living soar.” (Barr, 32:56)
  • Jones adds nuance by pointing out global inflationary trends and some Biden-specific policy contributions.

7. Quick Policy Questions: Jobs, Epstein Files, & Town Halls

[34:19–47:36]

• On Labor Statistics Office Firing:
  • Barr supports the firing of the jobs office director, calling for a total overhaul for credibility.
• Epstein Files:
  • Barr supports transparency but wants victim privacy protected in releasing files. Raises question of political timing:
    “Why is all the clamor and the uproar now?” (Barr, 37:28)
• Town Halls:
  • Barr prefers small group or tele-town halls for civility, resists large public forums prone to disruption.

8. Faith, Religion, and Republican Identity

[39:50–43:44]

• Church and Inclusion:

  • “The church should be open to all of us. The church is not Republican or Democrat… we all are fallen.” (Barr, 40:42)
  • Barr critiques politicization of the church and advocates introspection over judgment.

• LGBTQ+, Immigration, and ‘Common Sense’

  • Jones asks about rhetoric toward marginalized groups; Barr responds,
    “Everybody in America has rights... Our country is... for freedom, but I’m also for common sense.” (Barr, 43:10)
  • Focuses on protecting “private spaces of girls” as a primary cultural concern.

9. Senate Race, Trump Loyalty, and China

[47:58–53:01]

• Primary Pitch:

  • Barr distinguishes himself by consistent Trump support and having a legislative record:
    “I have a record in Congress. You can look at it... one of supporting border security, leading the fight in the Trump first term.” (Barr, 48:59)

• National Security & China:

  • Barr stresses bipartisan (nonpartisan) consensus on countering China’s threat and highlights returning iPhone manufacturing jobs to Kentucky.

• TikTok Divestment:

  • Barr supports requiring TikTok’s sale to US-based owners as a national security measure, not a ban:
    “The key is to divest it so that it’s not a Chinese communist surveillance tool.” (Barr, 52:43)

10. Personal Reflections: Almost Opponents & Rural Health

[53:01–57:08]

• Jones’s Near Run Against Barr:

  • Barr says, “I love Matt Jones. I’m a fan, for goodness sake.” (Barr, 53:35)
  • Both share a mutual respect and love for Kentucky, especially its overlooked regions.

• Healthcare and Rural Hospitals:

  • Barr describes targeted reforms and funding (a $50 billion fund) to maintain rural hospital services post-Medicaid reform:
    “I’m confident that this $50 billion fund will do that. We’ll monitor it to make sure we protect those rural hospitals.” (Barr, 57:08)

11. Kentucky Basketball & Local Color

[57:35–58:09]

• On Kentucky’s Basketball Prospects:
  • Barr: “Of course. Number nine. Come on, bring it.” (Barr, 57:35)
  • On Louisville rivalry: “I’ve always been Ls down, man. …I was born and raised in Lexington.” (Barr, 57:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Political Discourse:
  • “You can disagree with people without being disagreeable.” (Barr, 04:51)
• On Free Speech vs. Civil Discourse:
  • “If you’re going to err on the side of anything, to me, the American response is to err on the side of free speech.” (Barr, 08:22)
• Barr’s Evasiveness on 2020:
  • “I certified the election results.” (Barr, 24:13)
• On Friendship Across the Aisle:
  • “Juan [Vargas] is a progressive liberal from Southern California… we also have knock down, drag out debates in committee. And then… we usually joke with one another.” (Barr, 12:56)
• On Redistricting Realities:
  • “It happens to both parties. And wrong both ways.” (Barr, 19:50)
• On Rights:
  • “Everybody in America has rights. That’s the great thing about our country.” (Barr, 43:10)

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Segment Timestamps

• [03:08] – Opening on polarization, divisiveness, and civility
• [09:11] – Free speech, college campuses, and government funding
• [12:06] – Friendships in Congress, private vs public personas
• [14:32] – Gerrymandering, competitive districts, electoral reform
• [22:01] – 2020 election certification, election legitimacy debate
• [29:04] – Trade, tariffs, inflation discussion
• [34:19] – Quick-fire policy: labor office, Epstein files, town hall approach
• [39:50] – Faith in politics, morality, LGBTQ+ issues
• [47:58] – GOP Senate primary, Trump loyalty, economic development
• [53:01] – Matt Jones’s near-run, rural Kentucky focus
• [57:35] – Kentucky basketball and rivalry banter

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Tone and Style

The tone is direct, occasionally adversarial but always respectful, with both Jones and Barr demonstrating a willingness to engage in good-faith discussion. Jones presses firmly for clarity on contentious issues, especially election legitimacy, while Barr offers nuanced (sometimes evasive) responses but keeps the discourse civil and grounded in personal experience.

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Conclusion

This episode provides a robust, candid exploration of contemporary political challenges with Kentucky Congressman Andy Barr. Listeners gain insight into the complexity of political leadership at a time of division, the nuances behind campaign rhetoric and legislative realities, and the importance—still possible—of civility and open conversation, even between opponents. If you want to understand why it’s so hard to get straight answers from politicians, and how local and national issues intertwine, this is a must-listen.

Transcript

[Andy Barr]

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[Matt Jones]

This is interrupted by Matt Jones on NewsRadio 840 WHAS now, here's Matt Jones. All right, it's Time for another episode of Interrupted with by Matt Jones. It's with sponsored by Cornbread Hemp. This is the good life. Congressman Andy Barr, I would say you are a first sitting politician, although we got next few weeks. Thank you very, thank you very much for doing this, Matt.

[Andy Barr]

Great to see you.

[Matt Jones]

I want to give you credit for doing this because I think this is happening less and less in society where politicians sit and will be interviewed by people from the opposite side or who have different points of view. Why do you think that's happening? Why do you think that seems to me to happen less and less?

[Andy Barr]

I don't know. I don't know why that is. I think our politics have become divisive and people are sometimes worried about the gotcha mentality of things. Whereas, you know, what I think the American people want is a refreshing exchange of ideas in a respectful and civil way. And I think people are actually yearning for that.

[Matt Jones]

I actually agree with you. You mentioned divisive. I do think politics are more divisive now than in my lifetime. Do you agree with that statement? And if so, why do you think it is?

[Andy Barr]

Well, so of course, we have divisions. We have a polarized society. Yes. Sometimes the rhetoric has really ramped up. I mean, my goodness, in my short political career, I've seen assassination attempts not only of President Trump twice, but of my good friend Steve Scalise, who was the majority whip. I mean, he, Steve almost passed away.

[Matt Jones]

Softball practice, right?

[Andy Barr]

Yes, it was. And thank goodness, man, he's a tough guy and he fought through it.

[Matt Jones]

So, I mean, governor of Michigan was kidnapped. Oh, you had. There've been a few, few things.

[Andy Barr]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Matt Jones]

Do you think politicians or people in politics, I don't want to say, I mean, they're not telling people to do this. But do you think that rhetoric has gotten way too negative?

[Andy Barr]

Yeah, I do. I do. Look, I think that whether you're right or left or maybe you're in the middle, if you have strong convictions and beliefs, that's what this country's all about. And of course, you know, I'm on the conservative side of things. I support this president. I really feel strongly in supporting this agenda. But I think I can do that and fight for my constituents without necessarily causing, you know, divisive kind of environment or, you know, you can disagree with people without being disagreeable.

[Matt Jones]

And you've always been good about that. I mean, you, I. There was a time, we'll talk about it later, where I thought about running against you. And one of the things I've always thought is that you did a pretty good job of being, you know, I don't know what the word is, but being at least friendly, willing to listen. I don't think, though, it's unfair of me to say that the president, and I'm not saying he's the only one. Gavin Newsom's now doing it on the left, too, that the president wakes up in all caps, taking shots on social media. When you read that, do you ever sit there and go, I wish you wouldn't do that?

[Andy Barr]

Well, I think the president kind of is combative in a lot of ways, maybe because of his personality and he's a competitor and, you know, he's. He's been that way in business, and that has been successful for him, but also because, let's face it, I mean, he's been targeted unfairly.

[Matt Jones]

Do you ever wish he wouldn't do that? He's got the biggest platform. I mean, do you ever wish he would just say, you can agree with all of his policies, but do you ever wish you say president? You're the president. You loved George Bush. He didn't do that. Both Bush senior and junior. Can you just turn it down a little bit?

[Andy Barr]

Here's what I want to say, kind of in general about this whole idea, is that people in this country should be able to express their views, sometimes in a combative way. That's free speech. That's what. That's what the First Amendment's all about. And, yes, I think we all need to tone down the rhetoric, and certain politicians can tone down the rhetoric on the right and on the left in order to promote more civility and getting things done for the good of the country. However, I also point this out to when I talk to school children who ask the same question, young people who want to be inspired, you know, remember what this country is about. Remember what this country was founded on. This country was founded on a disagreement. This country was founded in a revolt against an authoritarian government. And disagreements and conflicts in politics is the byproduct of freedom. And so we actually have a system of government built around the idea that people are going to disagree. That's why I have checks and balances, separation of powers, division between federal and state government so that ambition will counteract ambition. And it's that marketplace of ideas that produces the positive result. If.

[Matt Jones]

If there's a difference between disagreement and calling. And again, I'm not acting like Trump's the only one that does this, I will freely grant there are Democrats who do the same thing. But I also Think, as my mother would say, with great power comes great responsibility. When you have the biggest platform, that's even more important. There's a difference between disagreement and saying, you're a communist, you're a Nazi, you're this. I mean, can't we just say that should not happen? Like I go back to McCain, Obama in 08, when John McCain famously looked at the woman who was saying something about Obama and said, that's not true. Can we not just say, like, that level should go away?

[Andy Barr]

Well, again, I think the rhetoric should be toned down. We don't want to have these assassination attempts. We don't want to have this political violence. Political violence in any direction is wrong. But I think the overriding point here is that if you're going to, if you're going to err on the side of anything, to me, the American response is to err on the side of free speech. And when there is hateful speech or when there's wrong speech or untruthful speech, the remedy, the antidote, is not censorship or shaming someone. It's more speech, not less.

[Matt Jones]

I would agree with that. Do you think some of the conversations where the president will say a television show or a television network will say something and he say they should be shut down, does that bother you?

[Andy Barr]

I think this president is the greatest champion of the First Amendment in a very long time, if not in the history of our country.

[Matt Jones]

How do you reconcile that, though? I hear that a lot. But how do you reconcile that with some of the attempts to stop speech on college campuses or withholding of funds due to. Does that not bother you?

[Andy Barr]

No, it doesn't bother me at all. There's nothing that is limiting Americans free speech today. We have. That's on college campuses, if anything. And by the way, no university is just entitled to federal money. So you think the government should be.

[Matt Jones]

Able to say, we will only give you federal money if you do X, Y or Z promote X, Y or Z speech?

[Andy Barr]

Well, no, no. What I'm saying is that when you have active antisemitism that creates unsafe environments for Jewish students, when you have universities that are actively discriminating against certain types of people based on the religious views, when they're actively enabling hate, that is, that doesn't, that doesn't exempt them from the purse strings. My point is this, is that I think it's a good thing that Congress is scrutinizing federal resources and taxpayer dollars.

[Matt Jones]

That's not censorship exactly. It all depends on how you look at it. I mean, when, when Obama or Biden was president, they could say, you know, those of you on college campuses, if you don't promote this view of history that says this thing, then we will withhold federal dollars. They could do the same thing. Isn't that just one side, the other side of the same coin? There's a difference between banning speech, but also when you tie federal money to saying a certain thing, aren't you.

[Andy Barr]

I think you should tie the. Tie federal money to an open academic freedom.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, well, if you do that, when.

[Andy Barr]

They do the opening, you need academic freedom. If you're censoring speech, if you're discriminating against a viewpoint, then you are anti First Amendment. So if you want federal funds, you should be promoting an open marketplace of ideas. Academic freedom, true freedom, where all perspectives are respected and accommodated versus what we've seen on these college campuses where only a woke point of view or a pro Palestinian point of view or an anti Semitic point of view is tolerated.

[Matt Jones]

I hate the word woke because I don't even know that it means anything anymore. But we'll be that as it may. You have spent a lot of time in Washington and I've always thought, and I think you're one of these people, you have friends on the other side. Is that fair?

[Andy Barr]

I do.

[Matt Jones]

It feels like to me, I've gotten to know a lot of people. I tell the story about Jamie Comer. The one time he was on TV with me and he was telling me how much he liked aoc. And then that night I turned on TV and he was calling her the worst names. And I was like, you just were with me privately and said you like them. Is there a requirement to. Now you have to performatively hate the other side in order to play to the media that's on your side, whether it's Fox News, etcetera, For the right or MSNBC for the left. Why can't politicians acknowledge what you and I both know is true, which is that you, a lot of you all are friends behind the scenes. Why is that so hard to say to people?

[Andy Barr]

Well, I think one of the reasons why I have been an effective Congressman is that I have developed relationships with members of Congress with whom I have very few.

[Matt Jones]

Give me some examples of me.

[Andy Barr]

Well, Juan Vargas is a great example. Juan is a progressive liberal from Southern California, and he and I have strong arguments and debates in the Financial Services Committee. But he's got two daughters, I've got two daughters. We have kind of. We talk about family a lot. He's a man of deep Faith. He's a Catholic progressive, I'm a conservative Christian. But we have long conversations about religion, about family, about where we might have overlapping interests. We have worked together on some things on occasion, but we also have, you know, knock down, drag out debates and committee. And then we, you know, after those debates are over, you know, we usually joke with one another and why can't we treat each other with public?

[Matt Jones]

Because I feel like the public needs to see this is my view. You tell me if I'm wrong with this. I see more and more people on the right and the left literally hating each other and taking their cues from congressmen, senators, presidents who seem to hate each other, but when the cameras are off, really don't. So they, I feel like they kind of get the general public riled up with this. You are ruining America. You are ruining America. But then they don't really feel that way. They're all kind of hanging out in the same places when it's over. Does that make sense?

[Andy Barr]

Yeah, it does. But also, I think it's not just. I don't think it's just members of Congress fighting each other. It's also the American people. And when we have these primaries, a lot of times in a far liberal district or a blue district, Democrats are pulled to the left and then.

[Matt Jones]

Well, let's talk about that. That's a great point because I think that's a huge part of the problem, is that there are fewer and fewer competitive districts. You've been in one for a long time. Actually. You, you. I would say, especially under the old map, that your district was always very competitive. Leave aside this round of gerrymandering war of Texas and California in general. Are you against gerrymandering?

[Andy Barr]

I'm for a political process of redistricting consistent with the Constitution. And the Constitution doesn't have a lot of restrictions. The Constitution requires a reapportionment every 10 years. That's why we have a census. A lot of people think we're just. A census is just about collecting data. It's actually constitutionally mandated for the purpose of making sure that every member of Congress, all 435 of us, roughly represent the same number of people. That's the purpose of it. Other than that, there's not a lot that the Constitution requires now for many, many years. But what's the legislatures have gerrymanders, but.

[Matt Jones]

What'S the good of it? Like, I understand everybody's done it. I'm not sitting here trying to say what's happening, what's happening in Texas is a mid year thing that's different. But the idea of gerrymandering goes back to the 1880.

[Andy Barr]

It does.

[Matt Jones]

But what's the good of it? Like, what is wrong with saying when you gerrymander, you get people on the extremes for the exact reason that you said we should not do that. We should have people like Andy Barr had to for 10 years compete in competitive districts. Why, why can't we just say that you and I could agree on that.

[Andy Barr]

I want to agree. Yeah. Let me, let me agree on this point that you just made. I think the fact that I have represented a swing district, a purple district, a blue city, Lexington, it's the big, I tell my colleagues it's the big blue nation for a couple of different reasons.

[Matt Jones]

It might be the most liberal city.

[Andy Barr]

In Kentucky, it might be the big blue nation, but it's been a privilege actually to represent the diversity of my district. I think it's made me a better congressman that I've represented the diverse district. And I take that into this U.S. senate race. And look, I think the only way a Democrat wins statewide in the Commonwealth of Kentucky in 2026 is the way our governor did it. The way Governor Beshear did it. He won the one swing purple district, the Lexington based congressional district. Both times he beat Bevin and he beat Cameron in this district. And in the second time after redistricting, after the district became a little bit more red, Andy Beshear won my district by 19 points. Did he really? And so, and it's the same district I've been winning, but it's a different electorate.

[Matt Jones]

But let me go back to just the basic question, just yes or no. If I put up a bill that said we will ban gerrymandering for political purposes, there has to be some rational geographical basis for creating districts. Would you support that?

[Andy Barr]

Well, there already is a general requirement in the law. And you're a good lawyer. You know this about compactness and the test for, the legal test for gerrymandering. But there's quite a bit of deference given to political bodies, legislatures, when they do it. Now some states legislatures have delegated it to commissions. Here's the point.

[Matt Jones]

Would you be for that nationwide?

[Andy Barr]

No, no. And here's here, here's why. Is because you can't kind of get away from the politics. What's happened is the politicians and the bureaucrats have commandeered those processes as well. At the end of the day, they.

[Matt Jones]

Said comparatives would do it.

[Andy Barr]

It's very hard.

[Matt Jones]

What if you just.

[Andy Barr]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I wouldn't delegate a. A core Democratic function to AI or some kind of arbitrary computer. I think, at the end of the day, there may be abuses in districting and redistricting, but what I want ultimately is the democratic process to hold that accountable. For example, in the state of Massachusetts, everybody acknowledges it's a blue state, and yet still in a very blue state, there's roughly 30, 33% of the people there who are either registered Republicans who voted for President Trump or are Republican oriented. And yet there is not a single Republican member of Congress from Massachusetts because, arguably because of.

[Matt Jones]

And that's wrong. That's totally wrong. I agree with you on that completely. But I also just wish that there's a part of me that wishes politicians could also just say the obvious. Let's take the first district in Kentucky. There is no reason for Jamie Comer's district to go from the edge of Fulton county into Frankfort, and to cut a little slice that goes up through that, gets just enough of Frankfort, that takes it out of your district. Andy Barr would have won the old district. He did. Why do that?

[Andy Barr]

And can I say that there's a flip side to that coin, and that is there is no reason, no justification for, after I came up short against Ben Chandler In 2010, for the Democratic legislature in Frankfurt to carve out Southland Christian Church, take half of Jessamine county and Mercer county and Garrett county away and put it in totally in a district with Owensboro.

[Matt Jones]

Totally agree.

[Andy Barr]

So, by the way.

[Matt Jones]

So will you say the same thing about the current district?

[Andy Barr]

So my point is this. The reason why I say that is not to bellyache about what happened to me. The reason why I'm saying that is it happens to both parties.

[Matt Jones]

I agree.

[Andy Barr]

And wrong both ways. And just as you may say, it was a geographic anomaly for Comer's district to look like that, it was also a geographic anomaly for someone who is living one mile from New Circle Road to be in a congressional district in Owensboro. The point is this, that there is really no perfect way to draw these maps. And the question is, what is the best way? Is the best way to put it in the hands of a group of elites in a state Capitol who are unaccountable to the people? Or is it to give it to the elected representatives of the people in the states? Sometimes states are controlled by Republicans, sometimes states are controlled by Democrats. It's an imperfect system. And yes, there's gerrymandering on both sides, but I'd much rather it be a democratic process than an undemocratic process.

[Matt Jones]

So you won't just say that it shouldn't happen either way.

[Andy Barr]

Well, I believe that in general, districts should be compact based on geography and common. Common regionalism. I think that makes sense. In general, the details is, are ultimately decided by someone. The question is who is the best someone.

[Matt Jones]

I agree with that. I think we're getting farther and farther and farther away from even attempting to be compact, which makes me a little sad.

[Andy Barr]

I think where you and I agree is ultimately what, what, what was the district that I did represent for over a decade? It was a purple district.

[Matt Jones]

I thought it was a great district.

[Andy Barr]

And I think it made me a better congressman because I'm glad to hear because it was more reflective of the whole country. And so I represented people who voted for Barack Obama and people who voted for Donald Trump and rural, suburban and urban. I represented it all.

[Matt Jones]

I think that old Lexington district is what these districts, as much as we could, should be. And I actually think you were effective doing that. And I wish more people had to be effective in the way that I think you were because of. That's why ultimately. And we'll get to at the end, I didn't run against you is because I actually thought you did a pretty good job of a lot of what it means to be a congressman.

[Andy Barr]

Thank you.

[Matt Jones]

That means a lot, especially like constituent relations. I think that's something your office has always been great at. I was very proud of you in 2020 when it came time to vote on the election, whether or not Biden won that you did where some of your colleagues did not. Do you still today believe Joe Biden won the 2020 election?

[Andy Barr]

So what I told my that's a yes or no.

[Matt Jones]

Do you believe Joe Biden won the 2020 election?

[Andy Barr]

What I believe is that the election. I believe two things that belie a yes or no answer. One, I believe that that election had a ton of abnormalities. That I think is nobody can dispute the fact that there were many irregularities that gave Americans a lower level of confidence in the outcome. The fact that we have massive mail in ballots, the fact that we had multiple days of voting without controls, the fact that there were a lot of irregularities in the way the vote was counted. And a lot of that was attributable to changes in the law right before the election because of COVID that the.

[Matt Jones]

Republican put in on.

[Andy Barr]

But can I just say one thing about that? When I was asked by my constituents why I voted after there were election contests, after there was certifications the reason why I ultimately voted to certify the election was because I don't think Congress. I think Congress has a pretty limited role in the Electoral College process. I think states have a very large role. And what I said, especially to my disappointed constituents who voted for President Trump and who really felt like there was too many irregularities in the election, was that, you know, and it's exactly why I did it, was because I didn't want in 2024, when President Trump won for Maxine Waters in California, to be able to be empowered in Congress to invalidate the Electoral College votes of Kentucky because of whatever reason she wanted.

[Matt Jones]

But I will say, Congressman, I'll look in the camera. Donald Trump won the 2024 election. Can you say Joe Biden won the 2020 election?

[Andy Barr]

What I can say is that I certified the election results.

[Matt Jones]

So is that a yes?

[Andy Barr]

Because. Because there was. Because there were. Because there were, there were contests in the states, there were lawsuits in the states and there was a cert, and Secretaries of state certified it. And so as a member of Congress, I have a limited role because nobody sent me two slates.

[Matt Jones]

What disappoints me, Congressman, is why can't we just say that When I sit here and think of why I think you are a fair minded. You and I talk privately sometimes and I always like listening to your thought process. I won't go into what it was, but one time I kind of couldn't understand something I called you. You really did a good job of explaining it to me and you changed my thought process slightly on it. But if we can't look in the camera and say Donald Trump won in 2016, Donald Trump won in 2024 and Joe Biden won in 2020, how do we expect constituents who know much less than you to believe it? Why can't you just say that?

[Andy Barr]

Well, because. Why can't Americans on all sides acknowledge I'm saying it, the massive irregularities of the 2020 election?

[Matt Jones]

But I still think if you take all those into consideration, he still won.

[Andy Barr]

The conduct of the election was so aberrational, so unusual, it gave all of us a lot of legitimate questions about the legitimacy of the.

[Matt Jones]

So you have questions as to whether Biden won.

[Andy Barr]

I have massive questions about the conduct of the 2020 election, whether Biden won. We need massive, massive changes to the way that we conduct elections so that we never have an election like that. Same with. And by the way, it's not the first election where you had that happen in 2020. We had that problem in Florida with hanging chads. We had that problem in the.

[Matt Jones]

But Al Gore conceded the election. And Al Gore still says to this day that George W. Bush won.

[Andy Barr]

Well, actually, that's not true. Al Gore and his defenders believe that they won. They just heard this, well in my.

[Matt Jones]

Interview just the other day, say George W. Bush is legitimate.

[Andy Barr]

Well, the president. Well, the bottom line is we do have. We have in our history, we've had messy elections. What we want to do is avoid them. And that's why we need electoral reform, so that we never have and so that Americans, American voters on any political side of the fence doesn't ever have legitimate questions about the integrity of our elections. I like what our Secretary of State has said about the way we should conduct our elections. It should be easy to vote, but hard to cheat. And nobody really knows about the election of 2020, you know, the scale of the problems or the fraud or what.

[Matt Jones]

We have one president in the history of America that has not conceived in a race. And I think that it strikes me that if we can't. Here's what I actually think it is. I think you feel free to correct me, because I don't want to. Just, I think, you know, he lost. I think, though, you all have a political incentive that you cannot go against Donald Trump. You just can't. And that worries me because let's say it was a Democrat, and you just like, let's say, because here's the thing, we're gonna end up electing in my party someone like him because it's effective, and I'm gonna watch my Democratic congressmen and senators do the same thing. And that's not.

[Andy Barr]

Can I tell you what I think? Most of your listeners and most of my constituents and frankly, most of the voters of the commonwealth and Kentucky really think about this. They really don't think. I know you care a lot about this issue. I. I think most of my constituents and the voters of this country, they care about inflation, they care about the cost of groceries, they care about whether or not their kids can go to college, what the national debt means, the threat from China, what the geopolitical situation looks like. I think they care about the border being secured. They care about those things a lot more than looking.

[Matt Jones]

Totally agree with you.

[Andy Barr]

Four years, five years in the past, and relitigating that, I totally agree with you.

[Matt Jones]

So let's go to some of those. I'm going to do something that I wish politicians would do more. I'm going to give credit to President Trump for something I'm going to Say, I think Donald Trump has done a very good job of keeping the border secure. I think the, the border itself has been significantly more secure. But so he, that was one of the three or four things I think that were the core constituents of what he ran on. I think one of the other things though was lowering prices. Things that sometimes the President really doesn't have control over, but they say they do. I have to think, knowing Andy Barr's political philosophies pre Trump, you have to be, I would assume, against tariffs in the abstract. Am I right about that?

[Andy Barr]

So I'm for free trade. That's what I'm for. And that's exactly why I'm actually for the President's trade policy. Let me explain why. Because we don't have free trade. We haven't had free trade in this country and in the world. We have a system, frankly, that's full of unfair trade. And it's not just China. It's not just China. And it's not just because we have trade imbalances with allies and partners. It's because there's so many of our trading partners that have tariff and non tariff trade barriers that are closed to American exporters. But we've opened up our markets to them. And it's both in terms of trade, it's also in terms of capital flows. We open up our capital markets, we allow foreign companies to list on our stock exchanges, but that we get no reciprocal treatment. So finally we have a president, the first president in my lifetime who's actually trying to reorient the rules of international trade. And when is it a good time to do that? When can you do that, such a massive undertaking and not have some uncertainty, some turbulence? Of course there's going to be some turbulence in that process, but look at the results.

[Matt Jones]

Look at, look at the costs haven't gone down. I mean costs. I understand the argument for long term tariffs. I disagree with them. I think it's actually a Bernie Sanders argument that he's made for years. It's actually a far left argument, to be honest. But in the short term, we've got a state full of people that haven't seen their prices go down. When should they expect that they will?

[Andy Barr]

Well, I think they, first of all, inflation is one of these things where once the cat is out of the bag, it's hard to get it back in or the toothpaste out of the tube. Inflation, remember, is the rate of price increases when inflation is under control, so called price stability. And I've been given the privilege of having oversight over the Federal Reserve and interest rate policy. And price stability, what they say is price stability, what the Fed says is price stability is 2% increases in prices. So it's not that prices, when prices go down, that's called deflation.

[Matt Jones]

Correct.

[Andy Barr]

Okay. Price stability, they define it as 2% increases. What we saw with rampant runaway inflation, 40 year inflation under the Biden administration and unified Democratic control of Congress, overspending which caused 9% inflation.

[Matt Jones]

And a lot of that was Covid. I mean, let's be fair. Some of it, the whole world, I just want to be fair, fair about the conversations. I'm not Biden, I do think, made some decisions that led to higher inflation, like the second stimulus bill, which you could argue was. Shouldn't have been done. But let's be fair. There was inflation in every western country in the world and ours was one of the lowest. Is that fair?

[Andy Barr]

Well, no, because it was not just the overspending which created excess demand. Inflation is always a function of supply and demand. And you had not only excess demand, but you also had fiscal policy errors that included constraining the supply of labor, paying people to not work, constraining the supply of energy. So you had constrained supply. You had excess demand. That supply, demand mismatch pushed prices up. And then it was compounded. You're right. Beyond the Biden administration and Democrats, it was compounded by the Federal Reserve, which was parroting this narrative that inflation is transitory. In fact, it was not. And the Fed was slow to raise interest rates. Now they're slow to cut them. So the Fed has been wrong twice now. But the bottom line is it was a toxic policy mix that made the cost of living soar and made it very painful for Kentuckians. Now we're back to my question.

[Matt Jones]

When do you think Kentuckians should expect the tariff policies that you say you're for? Which surprises me that you're for. When should they expect the prices to go down?

[Andy Barr]

Well, what we've already seen is movement towards price stability. We're almost at price or slightly elevated over price stability. And all we've seen, we've heard more about predictions of inflation from President Trump's tariff policy than we heard about actual inflation under President Biden. The reality is we've seen maybe arguably a one time small, modest price increase as a result of tariffs, but we've seen a lot of disinflationary policies counteract that. For example, the tax cuts reduces the cost of business. That allows businesses to lower prices. Deregulation, both in Energy, financial services and in other areas lowers the cost of business. That is very disinflationary. And then I would say beyond the power of me and mother policymakers or President Trump or anyone is innovation. Innovation is very disinflationary. Whether it's the innovation on the blockchain, it's AI it's going to increase productivity. And I think you're going to start to see as long as we unleash and not overregulate this innovation that's happening, you're going to see a lot more productivity and a lot more decrease in prices which will allow the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates and the cost of borrowing.

[Matt Jones]

Let me give you some because I don't want to keep you too long. Let me give you some like yes or no. To the extent you can give yes or no answer, I understand like, I understand like sometimes that can be misleading. So I don't want to. Did you agree with the decision to fire the leave aside all the issues people might have with the way the statistics are calculated, did you agree with the decision to fire the person? Yes. As the jobs.

[Andy Barr]

Yes.

[Matt Jones]

You did?

[Andy Barr]

Yes, I do.

[Matt Jones]

Okay.

[Andy Barr]

Because for years, for years you think.

[Matt Jones]

It'S her fault what the system was.

[Andy Barr]

I think that that office is broken. That office needs to be totally overhauled because in both Republican Democrat administrations there is wild swings and corrections that make it, if it's not actually politicized, it makes it look politicized and it's lost all credibility.

[Matt Jones]

And you think firing her will fix that?

[Andy Barr]

Well, I think remaking the whole office and incorporating a lot more data and a lot more and frankly new leadership that would implement the reforms that would give that, that office more credibility.

[Matt Jones]

Business owner knowing that they fired people the day after low numbers came out makes me not trust whatever they do next. I mean that seriously, put aside partisanship. The day people fire people, the day after bad numbers come out, how am I supposed to believe.

[Andy Barr]

And there have been bad numbers out of that office for many, many years. I mean we saw in the, in the run up to the election you had very bad, you had very positive numbers. And then, and then of course they have to revise these numbers after election.

[Matt Jones]

There's clearly a lot of.

[Andy Barr]

And so this is not like a one off problem. It's a, it's a consistent problem.

[Matt Jones]

Do you. The Epstein files, I have to tell you, I've always thought everyone for two years has made probably more of this than it actually is. I've always believed it's probably a bunch and Lot less than people think. But we've gotten to this point.

[Andy Barr]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

Do you support the release of all of the Epstein files to the public?

[Andy Barr]

So I've always known to a certain extent. Okay, there's this really bad guy, Epstein, and it's kind of gross. And actually, my wife and I watched this Netflix episode recently, this Netflix series of who Epstein really was and the absolute depravity of this guy. It's just awful stuff. So I actually gained more appreciation for the facts and what was going on there. So, yes, for the sake of the victims, for the sake of our society, there needs to be transparency. And I support that. I also recognize that the release of these files needs to be done the right way. In other words, to the extent victims need to be protected, their privacy needs to be protected. So, yes, release, yes, transparency. But there is an interest in victim privacy here, so it has to be done the right way. Let me say one other thing, though. The reason why I think this seems really, really political is that I think Epstein committed suicide in jail. What? In 2019, the Biden Justice Department had these files for four years. Why is all the clamor and the uproar now?

[Matt Jones]

Let's be fair, Congressman. There are people, including Cash Patel and Dan Bongino, who made their career on this issue and are now in charge. And it is a fair argument to go, well, why didn't the Biden people release it? I'll accept that. But I also think it's fair to people to go, okay, if you made your career being mad they didn't release it, how have you not released it? You know, summertime means hot days, hard work, and fighting to find time to slow down. That's important. Thankfully, we've got Cornbread Hemp. They're here to help. Their lineup of natural hemp based wellness products are designed to help you stress less, move more, and sleep better. I use them. They help me to feel great. And whether you're looking to swap your evening cocktail for something without the hangover, if you need relief after a long day of work or you just want to find a moment to chill, they got you covered. Infused seltzers are light, refreshing, and perfect for those moments when you want to feel good but not feel guilty or have a hangover. Plus, their full spectrum gummies and oils are made with USDA organic ingredients that work. Go to cornbreadhemp.com Matt Jones and go ahead and use my code. Matt Jones. It's 30% off your order, by the way. There are other places you can get this, but this is a better deal. Cornbread Hemp.com Matt Jones and the code is Matt Jones. Cornbread Hemp. This is the good life. You're a religious man, I think it's fair to say, right Presbyterian, Episcopalian. Episcopalian. I. I think my mom would be okay with me saying this. My mom went to seminary and is very, very religious. And I think a lot of the president's actions drove her from the party and drove. I've heard a lot of religious people who are Republicans say, I'm sad to see the movement, the Republican Party has gone from the Moral Majority, Newt Gingrich, era of Republicans to whatever this is now, I'm not gonna put it just on Trump, but I think it's part of it. But this own the libs and a lot of the sort of soul of morality of the Republican Party, while I'm not saying it's gone, it doesn't seem to be as important. Important. Do you agree with that?

[Andy Barr]

Yeah. I can't speak for anyone else's theology or religious journey or whatever. I can just speak for myself. Is one of the things that draws me to Christianity is this parable from the Scripture about the speck in your eye versus the log in the other's eye. You know, we're all sinful by human nature and we all are fallen. And, you know, who am I to judge the speck in your eye for the law and not recognize the log in my eye? And, you know, the Episcopal Church of which I belong. I got a lot of negative feedback for a controversial post I made on social media when an Episcopal bishop was very confrontational with President Trump on immigration at the National Cathedral right after and politicized a sermon, really right in front of him. And, you know, one of the, I think, wonderful, very Christian things about the Episcopal Church. Is the motto of the Episcopal Church. All are welcome here. Well, it didn't appear that the president was welcome in the Episcopal Church that day. And I think, look, I think the church should be open to all of us. The church is not Republican or Democrat. The church is not liberal or Republican or liberal or conservative. The church is supposed to welcome all. And so I think instead of judging other people all the time about, you know, gosh, the president shouldn't have said this, or the president should have said, or this. Democrat shouldn't have said that or whatever, just focus on yourself. Just be the best person you can.

[Matt Jones]

Do you think the religious members. Okay, so let me do the criticism of my party first. I think for a number of Years, my party has not done a good job of being welcoming to people that they think are different than them. In this case, often people with just different views, people maybe not as educated. And that's really annoyed me. A lot of the people that are my, you know, people I care about. Right. People I went to school with, et cetera. Rural America. Do you think your party, the religious members, especially what you just said, which I totally agree, we should be open to everyone. Do you think you guys are getting away from that? Like. Like in. In having your policy beliefs? Do you think sometimes you all are demonizing immigrants even while trying to keep the border secure, which I support people who are different, whether it be homosexuals, transgender, whatever. Do you. Do you wish sometimes that, especially with those vulnerable people, there'd be less harsh rhetoric?

[Andy Barr]

I think there's intolerance in a lot of different places in American life. It's on the left. It's on the right. The way I lead my life is I try to focus on myself. Now, I will tell you that I think we need a restoration of common sense. And I'm so grateful for this president that he feels that I think he is embodying that restoration of common sense. I was just telling you I have two daughters, and I have daughters who are in athletics, and I think we need to keep biological men out of the private spaces of our daughters.

[Matt Jones]

So you've won that battle. So you've won that battle, and I'm for that.

[Andy Barr]

And I don't think that's intolerance. I think that's.

[Matt Jones]

I didn't say that was intolerance.

[Andy Barr]

I think that's common sense.

[Matt Jones]

Transgender people should have rights in general. Maybe they shouldn't play sports, but should they just have regular.

[Andy Barr]

Let me tell you, I just want common sense back.

[Matt Jones]

So can you say they should have rights?

[Andy Barr]

Everybody in America has rights. That's the great thing about our country. Our country is I'm for limited government. I'm for freedom, but I'm also for common sense. And I want to protect the private spaces of girls. And it's really. The extremes of our culture have gone way beyond just what the average person thinks is appropriate. And that's why I've worked really hard on this protecting girls and girls sports issue.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. I would argue, while I agree with you on that policy, I think people talk about it a lot more because it helps not talk about the things that matter.

[Andy Barr]

Well, can I tell you, it's not a specific speculative or hypothetical issue. There have been over 600 cases, Matt, and you.

[Matt Jones]

Do you win on that issue?

[Andy Barr]

Well, no, we haven't, actually. We haven't because of that ban now because in. Well, the president, thank goodness, has issued an executive order. The problem is that he's been sued by California, Washington state, Maine, Minnesota. And you've had documented cases like in the softball championship in Minnesota where you had a biological boy pitch 12 shutout innings or the triple jump state champion in California was a boy. And girls triple jump. There have been 600 cases where female athletes have been denied their championships or their awards. I think this is actually a real problem.

[Matt Jones]

I agree with you on the policy. I also think it wouldn't be too hard to say transgender people deserve equal rights to.

[Andy Barr]

I think all men are created equal. And obviously the, in the, in the Constitution that means all people are created equal and we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That applies to everybody.

[Matt Jones]

Okay. Clayton and Croom was founded on a simple idea. All leather goods should last a lifetime. They make everything, bags, belts, wallets, and much more. And the best part, they're doing it right here in Kentucky. You can check them [e-mail] that's C R U M E.com ClaytonandKroom.com the retail stores in Louisville at 216 S. Shelby St. In Nulu. Quality leather goods built to last. If you're listening all around the country. If you want great leather goods. Clayton and Kroom C L A Y T o N and kroom.com just a couple questions that people wanted me to ask when I brought this up on the show. I have mixed emotions about town halls because I think they're very good in theory and I think they should happen especially for representatives. But I also don't think you should just have to stand there and have people scream at you from the crowd. So I do. I have mixed emotions on it. Can you. Do you think you can think of a way? Because you're not doing town halls right now. At least not one's open to the general public. Can you. Is there a way to do that where someone who's not Matt Jones who might. Would like to say their opinion to you could do it, but you also don't have to sit there and listen to and then somebody screaming.

[Andy Barr]

Yeah, absolutely. So we've been using technology to do that and we've also been doing it in smaller groups. So my accessibility to my constituents is very important to me. I've even taken one on one meetings from people who are very, very Opposed to the president, very upset with what's going on in the country, upset with my votes, what have you. And I will take those meetings in small settings where there's civility, where I can listen, where I'm not being drowned out with shouting. Now, obviously the disadvantage of that is that you can't meet with as many people because you only have so much time and you're meeting with smaller groups. The other thing that we have done to avoid these very uncivil shouting matches where nobody gets anything accomplished is tele town halls. Now, some people criticize the teletown hall and they think we screen out hostile calls. The fact of the matter is I actually prefer a question in some cases like this back and forth, which is much more interesting than just a softball interview where you have questions from people from either the right or from the left who maybe disagree with you on a particular vote. And it gives me an opportunity to explain myself, to maybe persuade. And even if I don't persuade, at least I'm offering my point of view on a point of difference.

[Matt Jones]

And I think it's valuable for people to just hear. Like, I think it's valuable to hear you, even when you first. My answer might frustrate. No. To hear you articulate it, because I agree with you. You go in on Fox News or AOC going in and say MSNBC and what's. What's. That doesn't help. It really doesn't. It really doesn't.

[Andy Barr]

And by the way, you will see me on cnn.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, I got Scott Jennings on there now.

[Andy Barr]

So Scott, he does a great job, by the way.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, no, he does it. But part of the thing with Scott though was a perfect example. What I was talking about, about how like he had got. People talk about each other like they're the worst, but then they all hang out together and it's like there's a little bit of just showmanship that kind of drives me crazy.

[Andy Barr]

My point is that I'm. I'm never afraid to kind of run. By the way, I don't. You might. Might want to ask him. I, I think he does a great job on stage. If he runs, he's like five, five on one, right?

[Matt Jones]

Well, no, if you should. I will say this. We agree better on CNN than if you run. You do have a competitive primary here. Daniel Cameron, Nate Morris in. Now, Nate Morris has clearly sort of targeted you in this. I don't really know anything about him except that he's a. He's a business guy. How do you. If you Were to make the case to Republicans watching this, why they should vote for Andy Barr instead of Nate Morris or Daniel Cameron, what would you. Well, not just why you should be elected, why over them.

[Andy Barr]

I mean, I think both of my opponents say that they support President Trump and his agenda. I'm actually the one candidate in the race who's doing it day in and day out. I have a record, I have a record in Congress. You can look at it. And that record is one of supporting border security, of leading the fight in the Trump first term, defending the legality of President Trump, building a border wall infrastructure, of writing major portions of the legislation that rolled back the Dodd Frank law that President Trump signed in office. I was the chairman of President Trump's campaign in Kentucky in 2024. I voted for the one big beautiful bill. They talk about it. I actually helped to write parts of it and pass it.

[Matt Jones]

Do you think he will endorse you?

[Andy Barr]

Well, we have to earn the endorsement every single day. But the good news is that I don't have to talk about supporting him. I'm doing it. I'm doing it every single day. President texted me the other night. He was very appreciative of the fact that I gave him the right, just credit that he deserves for bringing all those jobs to my district in Mercer County. The announcement of Apple because of his policies and because of the Made in America tax cut that I got a chance to vote for. Apple's decision to bring all of those jobs and all of the iPhone gorilla glass being made in the corning plant in Harrisburg.

[Matt Jones]

How many jobs is that? Just I'm for it.

[Andy Barr]

So I think it could, I think it could double the jobs that are there now. It might be more. There's 400 jobs there, by the way. Have you been there? It's amazing. It's very, very cool. It's very cool. So for your listeners who don't know the hard glass that's on your iPhone, a good chunk of that is made in Harrodsburg, Kentucky. But there's also plants in China, Asia. And all of those jobs, all of that manufacturing capacity is being onshored back to the United States. We know that's going to happen in Kentucky.

[Matt Jones]

They're not just saying it, they're going to.

[Andy Barr]

Oh no, it's Apple made the announcement. And by the way, I serve on the Select Committee on the Strategic Competition with China. This is not just an economic story for Kentucky, it's a national security story because we have dangerous dependencies on China when it comes to Our supply chains. And you laugh. Oh, well, maybe iPhones aren't critical to national security. They actually are.

[Matt Jones]

Of course they are. Yeah.

[Andy Barr]

And if, God forbid, there was a cross strait invasion of Taiwan, one of the first things that, that China would do to retaliate is stop producing the component parts of iPhones. That would, that would make a big. That would be a big problem in the United States.

[Matt Jones]

One thing I think both parties should agree on is on the Chinese issues. And I actually, you and I have talked some about that and I, I'm, I'm, I generally agree with that.

[Andy Barr]

And can I say that the, the select committee on the strategic competition of China is some of the most meaningful and purposeful work that I've done in my 13 years in Congress. And I would not call it bipartisan. I would call it nonpartisan. It has been the most nonpartisan experience of my time in Congress. And it really, you know, it's cliche to say not red, not blue, but red, white and blue. In this case, the United States is facing a generational threat and we need to come together as a country to deter that threat.

[Matt Jones]

On that question, because I know people will ask TikTok, you guys passed a bill saying they gotta sell it. They still haven't. Should the president enforce it?

[Andy Barr]

I think the president supports the idea of divestment requiring. And in fact, the president has been trying to orchestrate, by the way, with Mr. Wonderful and Frank McCord, who is a businessman with a lot of liquidity to actually buy TikTok out of Chinese ownership. Because TikTok, let's face it, is very important, not just for entertainment, but for a lot of small businesses. They've used that as a platform to market their goods and services. Mario, back over there.

[Matt Jones]

Job from TikTok.

[Andy Barr]

So we recognize, and I've got constituents who are TikTok promoters or what have you. So the key is not to ban it. I'm a first amendment advocate. The key is to divest it so that it's not a Chinese communist surveillance tool. And so they can't throttle up misinformation through TikTok.

[Matt Jones]

Last question, just a personal one. So in 2015, I guess the Democratic congressional campaign committee came to me and said, you know, we'd like you to run in this district against Andy Bar. And I went through their whole process. I went through their boot camp. I went up there, decided it was not for me. I think the House would be good decision. I think the House would be such a boring job. But I do wonder with you, so. And I'm not. When you hear the news, Matt Jones is thinking about running for you against. In your. For the office. What was your thought?

[Andy Barr]

I said, Matt Jones. He's. I love Matt Jones.

[Matt Jones]

I listen to Matt Jones, the newspaper about it, about something like, he should stick. And I was like, come on, man. But what did you think?

[Andy Barr]

Well, look, listen, you've got a ton of fans, and for good reason. You do a great job on ksr. I'm a fan, for goodness sake. And so if you ever seek public office, you'll have a natural following and you've got a lot of offers. You love Kentucky. I'll tell you this. We have disagreements politically, but there's one thing that you and I share, and that is a deep passion, not just for Kentucky basketball, which we clearly do, but also our commonwealth. You grew up in Middlesborough. You grew up in southeast Kentucky. I love eastern Kentucky. Frankly, eastern Kentucky is what motivated me to run for Congress to begin with. I remember getting criticized by Lexingtonians and my opponent, Ben Chandler, for, you know, running in the wrong district because I was focused on the coal miners in eastern Kentucky. But the point is, I love Kentucky. And when I see people struggling in Kentucky, I want to make a difference to help them. I know you feel the same way.

[Matt Jones]

I do. I do. And when Trump ran, the one thing I did say is, well, I'm glad he's, like, acting like these people matter, because I think there'd been a lot of years where people stopped acting like these people matter. I think his policies have had mostly the opposite effect. But I did like that he brought it up. And. But I also worry that we're going to get through eight years of somebody who at least claimed to really be on their side. And are things any better?

[Andy Barr]

Well, let me tell you what. Let me tell you what's better for the waitress in eastern Kentucky. No tax on tips. But their medical, for the. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not true. If you, if you, if you are illegal citizen, if you are disabled, if you are dual eligible, elderly, if you're indigent, if you're a mom and kid in poverty, nothing is going to change.

[Matt Jones]

Do you worry about the hospitals?

[Andy Barr]

I am glad that we were able to include in there a rural health transformation program that will plus up specific assistance to rural hospitals. We're going to monitor the implementation of that. But I want to say something about the rural hospital changes. Medicaid was originally designed as a federal state shared program, and the way that Kentucky and other Expansion states expanded Medicaid under the aca, under Obamacare, was that they put on these provider taxes and these state directed payments to basically make the federal government pay 100% of that. That's really not the original design of Medicaid. Even after our changes, 90%, 90% of all of Medicare will be paid for. I don't think they're going to close. I think that's very hyperbolic. I do believe that there could be some services that would be altered and that's why we created this $50 billion fund and why I'm going to monitor that fund and if we need to plus it up to make sure that we keep rural hospitals not only open, but providing services like obstetrics. You know, it's a big deal if you've got to, if you live in Harlan and you got to drive to Lexington if you're pregnant or Middleboro, you know, you've got a hospital down there, but you know, Pikeville, whatever. We want to make sure that those critical services remain open. And so I'm confident that this $50 billion fund will do that. We'll monitor it to make sure we protect those rural hospitals.

[Matt Jones]

Well, I do want to say thank you for not just doing this interview, but you have always, you've always been accessible to us, even after criticisms, which I think is, I do think that there is a lot of positive to say about that. Someone who will come in and take disagreement. I wish you luck on the, on the Senate race and thank you very much. And real quick, are we going to win a national championship this year?

[Andy Barr]

Of course. Number nine. Come on, bring it.

[Matt Jones]

Do you ever find yourself. I guess Louisville's not in your district, but if you become a senator, are you aware of Louisville Hat.

[Andy Barr]

You know, I've always been. Ls down, man. I've always been Ls down.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, okay.

[Andy Barr]

And so listen to listen. I, I think, listen, Authenticity.

[Matt Jones]

I agree with you.

[Andy Barr]

Authenticity. And so listen, my friends in Louisville, the Republicans in Louisville who are Cardinal fans, you got to understand, I was born and raised in Lexington. I, I, and I'm, and listen, Daniel.

[Matt Jones]

Played for U of L. Come on.

[Andy Barr]

I know.

[Matt Jones]

Ray and Paul went to Duke.

[Andy Barr]

I know.

[Matt Jones]

So thank you.

[Andy Barr]

Hey, great to be with you. Thanks a lot.

[Matt Jones]

Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

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[Matt Jones]

Whoa, this thing moves.

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[Andy Barr]

Song stands about an obsessed fan who's.

[Matt Jones]

Taken me too literal from Eminem and the producers of 8 Mile. Never seen anything like Eminem fans. This is the story I of a fan base. I had to look in the mirror.

[Andy Barr]

And be like, am I one of.

[Matt Jones]

These crazy Stans that created a culture?

[GoDaddy Representative]

I do have an addiction to Eminem.

[Matt Jones]

I traveled the world for him. Without Eminem, I wouldn't have the life.

[Lenovo Representative]

I have right now.

[Matt Jones]

What's your first question? Stan's new documentary, streaming August 26th on Paramount Plus, I'm Gwen Washington, the host of Snap Judgment from KQED. Every week, we don't just tell stories. We drop you inside them. Real people, real voices, real moments that split a life in two. What do you believe? What do you risk? What do you want? Snap Judgment New episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast.

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