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- [00:00]
Rob Gronkowski
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- [00:47]
Andy Beshear
Talk about stepping up. It's time to level up your game. Introducing the all new ESPN app. All of ESPN all in one place. Your home for the most live sports and the best, best championship moments. The electricity is palpable. Step up your game. With no annual contract required. It's the ultimate fan experience. Level up. For More on the ESPN app or at stream.espn.com sign up now. This is Julian Edelman from Games With Names. Football is back. That means it's tailgate time. And this season the only meat I'm going to grill is deets and Watson. I'm loving the Black Angus Dietz dogs. They're flavor packed and you can tell they are made with the highest quality ingredients. Sundays just got a whole lot better. Visit deetsandwatson.com the right way to learn more about the deets difference. This is Interrupted by Matt Jones on Newsradio 840 WHAS. Now, here's Matt Jones.
- [02:01]
Matt Jones
It is time episode 21 of Interrupted by Matt Jones. And I am honored to have as our guest for this our governor in Kentucky, Andy Beshear. I'm going to call you Andy because I feel like the whole state calls you Andy. Are you good with that?
- [02:15]
Andy Beshear
By the way, it is my name still Andy, so no worries at all. Hey, thanks for having me on.
- [02:20]
Matt Jones
Of course. It's interesting. I think part of your success as a governor has been in the fact that people feel like they can relate to you. And I think the fact that they just call you Andy, I think in some ways kind of exemplifies that. Do you think that that sort of connection that allows people to call you Governor Andy or whatever is part of what's gone?
- [02:43]
Andy Beshear
Well, I do. I think it's a couple things. First, it's loving the state, loving our people, and working my Tail off every day to try to make life better, not just for people of one party or one area of the state, but to make life better for everybody. And then the second piece is not letting the job change you, because the job can come with some grandeur or a lot of pomp and circumstance, but at the end of the day, you're still the same person. And for me, I had two things that have helped me do that. Number one, parents who went through this job knowing that they were still the same at the end of the day. And number two, a wife and kids who don't let me get too high on myself when I come home. So I think what I've always said is if you think this job makes you smarter, taller, or better looking, then it's going to eat you up.
- [03:33]
Matt Jones
Sorry it didn't make you taller, but I do think it made you. I do think it made you to where you, you showcase an empathy in this job that I think has been, at least on my personal opinion, your best talent. And part of that was because you really got thrown into it. I mean, you had just taken the job. Covid hits and then, of course, soon after all of these tragic natural disasters.
- [03:59]
Andy Beshear
14 of them.
- [04:00]
Matt Jones
14 of them start with just Covid for a second. You've been in the job six weeks. Do you remember the first time you got a report about the possibility of something happening?
- [04:10]
Andy Beshear
Well, our first case was March 6th of 2020. I actually had a different report that came in before that. That looking back, is wild to think about. I'm sitting at a meeting in the governor's office probably a month in, so January, and somebody comes and hands me a card that says, we have our first case of Ebola, right? And I'm looking at this saying, wait, wait. And I get up and I walk over to my desk and then I walk into the side room and say, follow up on this. This has got to be wrong. And it was. Somebody had absolutely misdiagnosed something to the worst.
- [04:47]
Matt Jones
Or like a doctor in Kentucky that you can imag.
- [04:51]
Andy Beshear
But to think back on that now and then, we do get hit by a pandemic. It was really you started hearing at the end of January and certainly February, we were out talking about it, certainly not every day.
- [05:07]
Matt Jones
But did you think there was any chance it would be what it was? I mean, when was the moment you said, wait a minute, this is going to be a life altering thing for people?
- [05:17]
Andy Beshear
People? I'd say that happened for all of us. Not at the beginning of March, but by the End of March, and certainly when we went from our first death to maybe 10 deaths to having 100 deaths on a day. And as you know, I read that list every day for a year and a half, mainly because I didn't want anybody else to have to. It was one of the hardest things that I've ever done. But certainly it. There was the moments that the stores were running out of things, and as a new governor, I was saying, please don't take more toilet paper.
- [05:52]
Matt Jones
I remember you doing that.
- [05:53]
Andy Beshear
But what the pandemic proved to me in every natural disaster is, at their core, people are good. That in many ways, Lord of the Flies is wrong. Left to our own, stripped of everything else, we don't gang up on each other. We support each other. You saw people be willing to share and not take too much in the pandemic, light their homes up green so other people would see it after natural disasters. Take eastern Kentucky. I'm in February of this year. I'm in pike county after that flooding, and I'm standing next to a woman who had a beauty shop and had worked more than a decade to do it. And everything's destroyed. Mud's halfway up. And she looks at me and says, where do I start? Well, there were 12 people standing around us, and every single one of them looked at her and said, start with us.
- [06:43]
Matt Jones
I saw. You know, we went to Mayfield. We went to Breathic county in the. And then I was in London.
- [06:49]
Andy Beshear
And you raised money to help, and I appreciate that.
- [06:51]
Matt Jones
Well, it was our listeners. It was the people listening to you right now. And in all those places, I got that exact sense that you saw the best of people.
- [07:01]
Andy Beshear
Absolutely.
- [07:01]
Matt Jones
During those circumstances. And how much do you think your governor's ship, or just the way you've shaped politics has come from those disasters? Has come from. Because I think even your harshest critics would say, he's good at that. He's good at comforting people in those moments.
- [07:19]
Andy Beshear
Well, we. We've sadly had a lot of practice in how you respond to tragedy and adversity. Part of it is preparation and execution. The. The aftermath of all those disasters could have been a lot worse. Certainly our most recent flooding and how we were able to preposition the boat teams and the helicopter teams meant we've saved thousands of lives that otherwise might have been lost. So part of it is that preparation and always afterwards asking, what different should we be doing so that we can be ready the next time? I mean, our response to these last two floods has been some of the best. I think that the country's seen because sadly we've gone through a lot. But the other piece is if you care about people and you've been around people that have lost a lot, then you know that one of the most important things is to be there for them, to make that promise that you're going to help not just in those immediate days after, but in the years after. I'm heading down to Mayfield next week and we still have more houses. We're almost through that wait list, though. We are almost yes to everyone who has needed a house getting one, which is pretty special, you know.
- [08:30]
Matt Jones
So I was telling somebody that works with you just a little bit ago. I've, I'm blessed to get to do the opportunity to, to meet a lot of people from other places. And I, the folks that I work with, I'm in a fellowship with the Aspen Institute with people from all over the country. And so they all want to talk to me about you. Like they all. Because I think the fact that you are a Democratic governor in a Republican state, there are really only three governor. I think there's only three governors in the country that are governors of a non swing state, but from the other party. I think it's like you, Kansas and Vermont. Kansas and Vermont. It's also interesting, you and Vermont, the governor there are the two most popular governors in the country by the polls. It's rare. Why do you think it's worked here and do you think there are lessons that can be transitioned to other states in for Democrats or even Republicans in states where they're not in the majority?
- [09:29]
Andy Beshear
Well, I think for me it's three things that I think have helped me be successful as governor and successful politically. First, I'm laser focused on people's everyday needs. I'm recognizing that when people wake up in the morning, they're not thinking about politics and they're probably not thinking about me as governor. They're thinking about their job and whether they make enough to support their family. They're thinking about their next doctor's appointment for themselves, their parents or their kids. They're thinking about the roads and bridges they drive each day, the school they drop their kids off at and whether they feel safe in their communities. It's the idea that if you can't check those boxes, if you don't feel good in those areas, you don't get to anything else.
- [10:07]
Matt Jones
Do you think we've gotten away in our party from that? Like, I feel like a lot of the conversations we have are significantly less about that day to day stuff than it is something else.
- [10:18]
Andy Beshear
So I believe that the Democratic Party has good policies towards them, but spends a whole lot of their time talking about other stuff about other stuff that doesn't impact everyone. So the idea is, let's spend 80% of our time talking about things that are important to 100% of Americans. And I've stood up for my convictions. I've done things that could have been unpopular in Kentucky because of my beliefs. But the next day, I'm opening that next factory. We're cutting the ribbon on the mountain parkway, on the newest section. That's four lane. And the hope that that's going to bring. And I think that that gives me. It gives the space for people to disagree on this or that, but say, well, he's creating jobs. You know, I'm making more than I did five years ago. So I think that's number one. Number two is we got to get back to talking like normal human beings.
- [11:08]
Matt Jones
Okay, let's. Let's talk about that for a second. Because I. I talk for a living. Right. And I have to talk like a normal human. If you're going to have my political beliefs and get people to listen to you, you're going to have to talk like a normal human being. I think most of our party is awful at that. You and I talk differently. You are not quite as outrageous as me, but we both, I think, share.
- [11:30]
Andy Beshear
We have different jobs.
- [11:31]
Matt Jones
True, but we both share that conviction. You have to speak as a normal person. How do you see that?
- [11:37]
Andy Beshear
Oh, it's. It's important to talk to people like you would talk to your friends. Ensuring that. That we're not caught up in advocacy speak. Right. When you get caught up in all the sanitized language, it sounds like you're talking down to people or you're talking.
- [11:52]
Matt Jones
So it's the same, dad, say unalive or something like that.
- [11:56]
Andy Beshear
I mean, the idea that in Kentucky, you and I have both seen what the opioid epidemic has done, and we've all lost people that we love and care about. I mean, I think I can count at least 12. And that's probably normal. Sadly, just people, you know, Kentuckians. Yeah.
- [12:13]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [12:13]
Andy Beshear
I didn't lose one to substance use disorder. I lost them to addiction. You know, addiction. When you. When you say it, you hear it and you feel it. It's mean, it's nasty, it kills people. And it. And that word has the emotion of the trauma that it's caused all this state and so many people. But also think about the people that are in recovery that have done the hard work to try to overcome it. They deserve. When you say that they're in recovery from addiction, something that was really hard to beat, and they put in the work and look at where their life is now. The term food insecurity drives me crazy because when people don't have enough food, they're hungry.
- [12:53]
Matt Jones
They're not insecure, they're hungry.
- [12:54]
Andy Beshear
Right. They have the hunger pains. They have the difficulty. How do the kids learn that are going through hunger? And then the newest term is justice involved population.
- [13:03]
Matt Jones
I've never even heard that.
- [13:04]
Andy Beshear
Those are our inmates.
- [13:06]
Matt Jones
Justice involved population.
- [13:08]
Andy Beshear
And when you look at what we're trying to do, we've got some of the lowest recidivism rates that we've had in a long time. We're teaching a skill in every prison. I believe in second chances. But our inmates call themselves inmates, and we should, too. And then I think the last piece, and I think it's about authenticity, but also about respect, is Democrats are very good about talking about the what we're really good about policy. Right. Point two, bullet point three. I, I, I. But we almost never talk about the why. Why are we making a decision that we make? For me, that's my family and my faith that's trying to live by the Golden Rule and the parable of the Good Samaritan, There have been a number of bills that I've vetoed simply because they're mean. And my faith tells me that we should be reaching out with kindness.
- [13:54]
Matt Jones
That's interesting. I'm a person of faith, too, and it's very easy for people. Like a lot of people say, how can a Democrat be a Christian? I hear that. I'm sure you've heard that. Sometimes it drives me insane. I remember growing up this idea that you shouldn't be mean to people. And it seems like meanness has been the goal of some politics recently. Do you agree with that?
- [14:19]
Andy Beshear
I do. Or cruelty. Cruelty.
- [14:20]
Matt Jones
Cruelty. That's.
- [14:21]
Andy Beshear
I mean, out of the Trump administration, we are seeing cruelty. Even if there's a tough decision that some people think that the country should or should not make, you can approach these issues without that meanness, without that cruelty, without the intention to create division. I constantly hear this president say that people of the other party are the enemy and that don't like America. Or listen, I mean, we say the Pledge of Allegiance when we're kids every day. And in that pledge, we pledge to a flag and to a country, not a person. But we also pledge to keep the country Indivisible. So the idea that we would have people pushing cruelty or intentionally turning Americans against each other I just think is wrong.
- [15:04]
Matt Jones
I agree with that. When you talk about your policies are driven by faith, give some examples for what do you think are some examples of policies that are tend to be supported by the Democratic Party that are faith driven policies. A lot of people think of faith driven policies and they'll think of Republican social issues. What are things you think that are faith driven for you?
- [15:25]
Andy Beshear
Think about health care. In the Bible, Jesus says the doctor's for the sick. Yet these cuts in that big ugly bill are going to make it a lot harder for the sick to see a doctor. It's that idea that healthcare is a basic human right, that when somebody is ill they should be able to see the doctor in their home area and hometown that they need to. I mean, that's one look at the SNAP program, which is food assistance so that people don't go hungry. The miracle of the fishes and the loaves is one of the only miracles to appear in every book of the gospel. Yet the national Republican Party just significantly cut how much food is going to be available to hungry Americans all over the country.
- [16:09]
Matt Jones
I want to give you a chance to answer something that I get said to me. So for people who are listening, other places I travel all over the state, I'd say next to a couple public officials, I'm probably out in the state as much as anybody. People pretty much universally respect you. But when I hear a criticism of you, inevitably it often comes back to like things you did during COVID where somebody will say something about like, he shut down the churches. When you. I know you've heard that. What's your response when people say he shut down the churches, he made people get tickets for going to church, etc. What's your answer to that?
- [16:45]
Andy Beshear
The incredible part of COVID and it's hard to say there's an incredible part of dealing with a pandemic is how many people came together. We had eight churches that didn't voluntarily close during the scariest period of time when the virus was spreading, when we did not have any treatments. In fact, how we were treating it may have made it worse. There was no hope of a vaccine at that time. And if it had spread faster that early, we would not have had enough beds and the hospital system would have generally collapsed. I'd like to think that strong leaders make really tough decisions.
- [17:23]
Matt Jones
Is there anything that you did during that time that you regret or not regret? Regret's not the word. But is there anything, looking back, you say, well, I wish we had done it this way instead of that way.
- [17:31]
Andy Beshear
Well, definitely the Tupac Shakur incident.
- [17:34]
Matt Jones
Remind me.
- [17:35]
Andy Beshear
So we open up unemployment to help people, and early on in that, somebody comes in and says, we're already seeing the fraud. And I said, what do you mean? They said, well, there's this guy named Tupac Shakur who applied for unemployment benefits. And so I go out all upset and say, I can't believe someone's taking advantage of. Of us. Well, turns out there was a guy named Tupac Shakur. There's a great gentleman named. Who changed his name to Tupac Shakur. That was in the hospitality industry. And one of the reporters that was at that press conference knew it. So he told me afterwards. I called him that night, and I apologized. I said, it's all on me, and I'm so sorry. I mean, I was governor, and I basically threw this guy under a bus, and it's just wrong.
- [18:23]
Matt Jones
Are there any, like, bigger picture?
- [18:25]
Andy Beshear
And I was just saying, I came back the next day.
- [18:27]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [18:27]
Andy Beshear
And I told the commonwealth I'd made a mistake. And I think that's important in our leaders. I mean, I did it because it was the right thing to do. And I felt so bad about what I'd done. But just being up front with people, they can forgive a mistake or two. But how few people in these positions will say, I shouldn't have done that and I shouldn't have there. If I went back, I mean, I made every decision, and these are battlefield decisions, because I'm getting that death list every day. What we know about the virus is changing. And certainly we had great access to information, actually, under the first Trump administration and then under Biden, where we made the best decision on the science each and every time. Now, if we knew today, if we knew then everything we'd known about the virus, would it have been nuanced? Sure. But I think we made every decision based on the information we had to protect the most number of people.
- [19:27]
Matt Jones
I give leaders. I've said this a lot on my show. I give all the leaders of that era, I give you all a lot of grace, because I can't imagine sitting there and looking. Even people who made decisions I disagree.
- [19:39]
Andy Beshear
With, people didn't know in just about every decision I made, every other governor was making the same decisions at that time. People forget the person who told me to shut down the state.
- [19:53]
Matt Jones
Ohio guy, right?
- [19:54]
Andy Beshear
No. Was President Trump on the phone to all the governors, all 50 of us were on there. And he says, I wish we didn't have to do this, but this is the scientific advice that I'm getting now. Later, he would argue with the reopening and speed and different pieces like that. But it was President Trump on the phone that told us all that these steps needed to be taken. We were able to open up or encourage worship faster than the federal government did. But again, some people want to find a reason to be upset, and that's okay. It was a tough, stressful, difficult time. What I'd say to those people is, I'm glad you're still with us. I'm glad you're okay. You can disagree with me, but I'm glad you're here.
- [20:37]
Matt Jones
I can't imagine. Okay, so I think about the various points I've considered public service, and one of the things I think about is I actually think I would have a hard time because of guilt, slash second guessing myself, right? Like just myself. I think I would have a hard time sitting there and thinking, what if I did this and it didn't work and, and, and how that would bother me. You're sitting there and you're seeing these reports of people dying. Did it weigh on you? I mean. Oh, yeah, it had to. I would think that would have just.
- [21:09]
Andy Beshear
Been one of the hardest experiences of my life. And then because it was the right thing to do, eulogizing people every day, understanding how much their family misses them and loves them. But what I also would hear is how deeply meaningful that was for the family. And so I wanted to do it. And even for those that didn't send in the information, just hearing that their loved ones were recognized and were counted was important. And that's why when we look back on different statistics or the rest, I tell some people, take some of it with a grain of salt, because some states stop counting very intentionally early. I wanted everyone that we lost to be counted. And we don't talk about the pandemic a lot now, but it was a deeply traumatic experience for a lot of reasons. The one we don't talk about is the main reason why it was so traumatic. Because so many people died in our commonwealth in such a short period of time. You know, we've been through more loss than World War I, World War II, Vietnam and the Korean War put together. And I worry sometimes about whether we've processed it enough that we need to talk about it a little more.
- [22:18]
Matt Jones
Clayton and Croom was founded on a simple idea. All leather goods should last a lifetime. They make everything, bags, belts, wallets. And much more. And the best part, they're doing it right here in Kentucky. You could check them out@claytonandkroom.com that's C R U M E.com ClaytonandKroom.com the retail stores in Louisville at 216 S. Shelby St. In Nulu. Quality leather goods built to last. If you're listening all around the country, if you want great leather goods. Clayton and chrome. Clayton and chrome.com. let's switch gears for a second. So I got to ask you, like, are you going to. Are you running for president in 2028? I mean, that's what everybody say. Everywhere I go, I hear, hey, you know, I look the list of candidates. I see Andy Beshear. Is that something on your mind?
- [23:00]
Andy Beshear
I've heard that question before, and I give the same answer each time.
- [23:04]
Matt Jones
Oh, no.
- [23:05]
Andy Beshear
Come on. What's interesting is sometimes I'll use a different synonym, okay? And it'll be reported like I'm breaking news. So right now I'm traveling the country trying to speak reason into chaos, trying to make sure not just Democrats, but Republicans get back to common sense, common ground, and getting things done. That idea that if both parties would spend 80% of their time on those core issues that 100% of people care about, if we actually depoliticize those issues, we're nonpartisan instead of bipartisan, what we could do.
- [23:35]
Matt Jones
That's not really an answer, though. Is it fair to say you're considering it?
- [23:39]
Andy Beshear
I'm still next year. I'm the head of the Democratic Governor's Association. And so my job there is to win as many of those races and to change the map. And then at that point, I'll sit down with my family and we'll talk about it. I would have told you right after reelection that I was done, that I was going to go out on top because this is enough for me. I love this state. I love the gains that we've made these last five and a half years. I'm. This is a special job where you can really make people's lives better. And at that point, I was done. As I sit here today, I'm committed to not leaving a broken country to my kids or anyone else's. And so what I'll look at is whether I'm the candidate that can heal this country, that can bring it back together, or whether that's someone else. Because what's most important to me is a positive future for this country where my kids don't have to get up every morning, run to the news, say what the heck happened last night? And is our democracy going to continue?
- [24:39]
Matt Jones
So is it fair to say, by the way, one of those governor's races, good friend of mine from the fellowship is in, Jason Estevez in Georgia. So shout out to him. You're good.
- [24:48]
Andy Beshear
Thanks.
- [24:48]
Matt Jones
Yeah, he's a great guy. Is it fair to say you're at least considering it?
- [24:53]
Andy Beshear
Right now I'm focused on both the work I'm doing for the country as well as those Democratic governors races. It's after that that I'll sit down.
- [25:03]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [25:04]
Andy Beshear
And Brittany and I will take a look.
- [25:05]
Matt Jones
So, people, that's the other question I get, is, do you think he could be someone that could be a nominee for president? And it's an interesting. Because I want to hope that someone like you, our party, could still nominate. But I sort of look at the Democratic Party and I see three types of people really sort of stepping to the forefront. One are people like Gavin Newsom who are, like, throwing bombs like Trump does, kind of trumping back to him. Then I think there's like, second, like, a group of people like Zoran Mondami in New York who their policies tend to be a little bit more socialist, getting young people who are disenchanted with capitalism. And then I think there's a third of people who, for whatever reason, people think fit the part because they like various parts of them, whether it's demographic or just the way they speak, et cetera. And what's interesting is I don't know that you obviously fit into any of those three categories, but I also think you're like a ton of Americans that are just sort of average, everyday Americans. So do you think someone who's like you, I think you've done a great job governing Kentucky. Can you win a national Democratic primary?
- [26:20]
Andy Beshear
Well, you ask anybody in my seat whether they can win something, we'll always think the answer is yes. Yeah. But I think what people are craving right now is someone who is committed to helping them in their everyday life. The pressure to pay bills right now, the young couple that can't afford a home in or around the same time that their parents could. The American dream. And is it still possible for some right now, and the Trump administration making it worse. Tariffs adding about $2,600 in costs or will on the average American family per year. The big ugly bill shutting down health care all over the country to where you're gonna have to drive several hours just to see a doctor. I think I'm someone that's always focused on those nonpartisan day to day issues. And by the way, I think that's the reason both we have a President Trump and Mandami won that primary. I think it's that they convinced the last group of undecided voters that they were more focused on those everyday issues than their opponent. And so what that tells me is the American people need help. They want help. They're willing to vote for somebody they think can help them, even if they're cruel in terms of the president or even if they call themselves a socialist. They want someone who they believe is committed to trying to make their life better. That next bill right now is, is so hard. It's that idea that you may have a social issue that you care about so much, but if you can't pay for your next child's prescription, you'll vote for anybody you think can help you.
- [27:51]
Matt Jones
Do you you may know the number of this what's the percentage of people that voted? You think Trump?
- [27:58]
Andy Beshear
BASHIR well, Trump won Kentucky by 30 points and I won it by five.
- [28:03]
Matt Jones
The different electorates though, in his governor and presidential race, but 15 to 20%.
- [28:08]
Andy Beshear
You also have more Democrats that come out in a presidential in Kentucky too. OK, yeah, probably.
- [28:14]
Matt Jones
All right, so let's say it's 15.
- [28:15]
Andy Beshear
Or 20%, maybe more.
- [28:16]
Matt Jones
For people around the country who are wondering who are those people? Who do you think those people are that vote Trump?
- [28:22]
Andy Beshear
BASHIR I think those are people who look at me and see somebody who's committed to this state, who's committed to creating those jobs. And we've got a good track record. We've brought in the most private sector investment, the most new jobs, the highest wages, the most exports, the biggest impact for tourism in the history of Kentucky. It's been really exciting. And so I think there are some who say I agree or I disagree with them on some of these things, but the state's moving in the right direction. They might not feel that way necessarily about the country. And when you can have a personal relationship, which I think is where we started with a lot of the state, you can push off some of that national politics. And people say, well, I really don't think how they're describing him is who he is. What I see is that new jobs announcement. What I see is him celebrating that new road that takes 20 minutes off my commute each way and Now I have 40 more minutes with my family.
- [29:22]
Matt Jones
I think you're right. I think people in Kentucky, back to our first point, think they know you. Have you thought about how you're going to make people in the other 49 states, if that were to happen, know you, because I do think I, I will say this, like I said, I know very few people who know you who don't like you. But do you think you're able to get people in New Mexico or Pennsylvania to know you like that?
- [29:49]
Andy Beshear
That's a slightly different question than I've gotten asked before. What I've gotten asked before is, well, you win in Kentucky. Do you think you could win in a swing state?
- [29:57]
Matt Jones
Yeah, you could.
- [29:57]
Andy Beshear
And what I keep saying is, wait, I can win in a Trump +30 red state, but you can't win in a swing state. But can I win in a state that regularly or somet votes for a Democrat?
- [30:07]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [30:07]
Andy Beshear
And I always think that's this fascinating question.
- [30:10]
Matt Jones
I don't worry about you in a general election. I would even argue, I've said to people if I was dictator of the Democratic Party, which we shouldn't have. So I'm glad we don't. I would say you have the best chance to win a general election for all the reasons we talked about. I just worry if people like you can win primaries. I want to believe that, that they can, but I don't know.
- [30:33]
Andy Beshear
I think the two things that have to be most important to the Democratic Party for their candidate in the future is first, the country feels like it's been whiplashed, rightfully or wrongfully. They feel like it was too far one way and now they feel it was too far the other way. For the sake of the country, we need people to feel like that pendulum has stopped swinging and that they can get back to their normal life. And then we need somebody who people feel that they can trust. Because we're all glued to the TV right now and the news is hitting us too many times a day. It's creating way too much stress on people. I think people are having even similar reactions on a mental health side than they did in the pandemic. And I think they're going to be looking for stability and competence. And those are two things I definitely think I can bring to the table.
- [31:29]
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- [32:33]
Andy Beshear
His FEMA response in the February floods. That's the ironic part. So his FEMA response, both in February and then in March. February and March were the two floods, was some of the best I've seen. The people on the ground in eastern Kentucky, where we had seen some tough relationships in 22, we saw really positive relationships in 25. And so I think that they deserve credit there. Some of those improvements probably happened under the Biden administration, but when you're president, you get the blame, so you ought to get the credit, too. So I've spoken very publicly about that because I only have the credibility to criticize the Trump administration if I can also admit when I think they're doing something right.
- [33:18]
Matt Jones
Is there a policy of his that, like, for instance, I'll just use myself while I'm anti. Well, I don't generally like tariffs. I do think Trump has highlighted the problem of American industry declining. I don't know that he's done a ton about it, but I do think that was something that needed to be pinpointed. Are there policies of his that you think are possible?
- [33:39]
Andy Beshear
How about concept?
- [33:40]
Matt Jones
Okay, concept of plan?
- [33:43]
Andy Beshear
Yeah, exactly. Conceptually, him talking about reshoring. Yes, it's critical. Going back to the pandemic, we did not make the things we needed to be safe. And so these last several years, Kentucky has seen the reshoring of manufacturing in amazing ways. Huge investments and doing so many things. Look at GE appliances, making refrigerators where they claimed we'd never make them in the United States again. Now bringing a line back over from China. But we were doing that especially under the Biden administration, when we had different incentives, when we had the carrot. Well, the Trump administration on tariffs has exchanged the carrot for the stick. But the problem is it doesn't work. And the reason it doesn't Work is he wants to have these big tariffs that say, okay, you can't afford to import things, so now you have to make them in the United States, except you can't build the new manufacturing facility because your costs could float 30%. Why? Because of tariffs? Because you do have to import a lot of those materials. You do have to import machinery. If we're not making things currently, and because the tariffs are immediate, there's no ramp up. I mean, there's no two year period where you can get that done. So what I see is a slowing of projects. I see a slowing of that reshoring that his method is preventing his goal.
- [35:05]
Matt Jones
Couple more and then I'll let you go. Since it is heading into a weekend.
- [35:11]
Andy Beshear
What is a weekend when you're governor? That's a different concept.
- [35:16]
Matt Jones
I'm sure that's true. I am from eastern Kentucky and I grew up in Middlesboro. I would say to you, when I was a young kid, there was still the remnants of a vibrant economy in eastern Kentucky. I can still remember what Middlesboro was like in the early 90s when it was a vibrant downtown, et cetera. It's a different. It's different now. And I have watched as going back to George W. Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden, a lot of things have disagreed. But when it comes to eastern Kentucky, honestly, very little has changed positively from any of them. If you're someone in a place like that in eastern Kentucky is close to my heart. But there are places like that all over the country. I mean, what can places like eastern Kentucky do? I mean, not theoretically, like practically. How does it get better there?
- [36:11]
Andy Beshear
Let me first say that I recognize how eastern Kentuckians can feel left behind or betrayed. I mean, eastern Kentucky mined the coal that powered the industrial revolution, that helped create the strongest middle class the world's ever seen, that powered us through two world wars. Yet when the energy economy changed, the new jobs didn't go where the old jobs were, didn't get a thank you, didn't get credit for helping to build America, and all of a sudden all the jobs are gone. Because this concept of environmental justice came a lot earlier than economic justice.
- [36:49]
Matt Jones
And they were vilified.
- [36:50]
Andy Beshear
And I think if we could go back in time and every means of new energy production took place where we mine the coal, then we'd be in a different place right now. That it's more of a concept of caring about a people that have done such hard work. And I agree that we have not seen the help from federal administrations that are needed. The real Help. But what I will say is on the state side, we are working hard. That's everything. From the new high ground communities where we've got eight new housing opportunities to move people out of the floodplain up onto high ground. We're spending tens of millions of dollars in it so that people can be safe. I'm finishing the four laning of the Mountain Parkway, the first real interstate railroad going into Appalachia. It is. We just broke ground on the last section. We've been to every part of the Mountain Parkway. The four landing is now complete or under construction and we're going to finish it right by the end of my term. So you know Jean Hale, who is the head of a big bank or was in Pikeville. We recognized her today at the Soar Summ. She said, I'm going to see the four landing of the Mountain Parkway in my lifetime. But there's more work. It's also getting broadband deployed. You look at Whitesburg where we've got a lot of entrepreneurs now because they've got good broadband. It's always finding that next opportunity. But I tell you, the biggest threat to Eastern Kentucky is a threat to the fastest growing part of its economy, which is health care. You look at the fact that Pikeville Medical center opened up a pediatric autism center, which is never been in Appalachia. Now there's one in Floyd County. You look at how ARH has all those regional hospitals. Each of those hospitals is the highest biggest payroll in those counties, the second largest employer in most of those counties. But they are all going to get hammered by the big ugly bill and the cuts to Medicaid. So if that rural hospital shuts down, it's not just the hospital, it's the restaurant.
- [38:51]
Matt Jones
Yeah, oh, for sure.
- [38:52]
Andy Beshear
It's the coffee shop. It's probably even the local bank because the amount of money that's gone. And so the crazy thing to me about this big ugly bill is it's an attack on rural America. The people who are getting the big.
- [39:04]
Matt Jones
Tax breaks, the people that elected him.
- [39:06]
Andy Beshear
Live in a blue city. The people who are paying for it, who are going to lose their jobs, who are going to lose their health care or the ability to see a doctor in their community, are in rural, typically red America.
- [39:18]
Matt Jones
We've talked on this show a lot about the health care bill and what it can do.
- [39:22]
Andy Beshear
But in terms of like industry, regardless of how they voted, I don't want people to lose healthcare. I don't want them to lose those jobs in that community. And my job is to be. And maybe the reason that I am popular and successful here is I truly believe my job is to be the governor of all Kentuckians, whether they always voted for me or never voted for me. And so eastern Kentucky is really important that we continue to push. Now we're already seeing some new opportunities with the four laning, because that's been the biggest challenge. You know, if you're going to manufacture.
- [39:51]
Matt Jones
Something, you got to get it in and out.
- [39:52]
Andy Beshear
You got to be able to ship it. And so this will help with the logistics. McGoffin county is already seeing opportunity. The former Thunder Ridge property, which was a horse track in Prestonsburg, we've now been able to purchase for the county. We've cleared it. That's 50 acres of flat land that'll have access to a four lane road that's everywhere. We're investing in other sites that are there to make sure we have the water, the sewer, all the rest, so that when a company says we, we'll go there, we get it up and running and the jobs there as fast as we can.
- [40:22]
Matt Jones
Are you optimistic?
- [40:23]
Andy Beshear
I am more optimistic today than ever. And part of that's we just got great county judges and great mayors, too. There's more cooperation in eastern Kentucky regionally than I've ever seen. And probably most of them Republican.
- [40:38]
Matt Jones
Right.
- [40:39]
Andy Beshear
And some Democrats. And then mayors are typically nonpartisan. But now if we have one big opportunity, say we're, we're trying to land something in Boyd County. The county judges for six other counties will come and support Boyd county because they know it creates jobs for everybody surrounding it, too. And it's just great to see county judges and mayors showing us how it's supposed to be done. Right. A job ain't Democrat or Republican, and so they're not going to bring that into it either.
- [41:06]
Matt Jones
I'll finish with this. I remember when you were elected, you were the attorney general. My mom is a prosecutor. I thought you gave my mom the prosecutor of the year award.
- [41:21]
Andy Beshear
Your mom, your mom earned it.
- [41:23]
Matt Jones
Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I was there. There's a picture of me standing behind you as you're. As you're giving that award. And I always appreciated how kind you were to my mom. But also she would praise how serious you were about the job. She really valued somebody who was serious about that job. And she used to say you and Ben Chandler were the two people that really took that job as serious as she believed it should be. But I remember when you ran for governor, I sort of would describe, I would Describe you to people. And I am a little embarrassed by this. In hindsight, I would say you were like vanilla ice cream without sprinkles. But I've watched you over the last six years.
- [42:04]
Andy Beshear
Didn't you earlier say you say outrageous things?
- [42:06]
Matt Jones
Yeah, but I thought that was a nice outrageous.
- [42:09]
Andy Beshear
Because everybody likes Menon.
- [42:11]
Matt Jones
Everybody likes menopause.
- [42:12]
Andy Beshear
Quite popular.
- [42:13]
Matt Jones
Yeah, but I've watched you over these six years and I actually. I think you've really grown into. You feel more comfortable. I feel like doing things like this. Would you agree with that?
- [42:24]
Andy Beshear
Well, when you've gone through what we've gone through, you show who you are to the people that you serve. I mean, you can't hide anything about yourselves in a pandemic where you give a press conference every single day. And in all the questions you ask, I am who I am and I'm comfortable with who I am. And if that's what you're looking for, then good. But I don't want to sell myself as anything different. I care about people. I work hard at this job, and that's just always who I'm going to be.
- [42:54]
Matt Jones
And do you now that you move on? I mean, you've still got two years, a little over two years left of being governor, whether it's running for president or whether it's something else. Do you still see yourself when it's over as. As having public service in your. Not. And I don't just mean like going and working in the community, but like some sort of thing. Because public service in your life.
- [43:16]
Andy Beshear
I always want to find a way to help this state because I love it. I love where we're from. And I think we're all bound together by our love of Kentucky. And for far too long, people look down or have looked down on us. I feel that that has changed nationally. And so it's. It's been, you know, the honor of my lifetime to serve in this role, to see some really positive change happening. With that said, I never intended to be governor. I intended to run for attorney General. It's a great job. I thought I'd go back into law practice. And then we had Matt Bevin, and I didn't think he was the right governor or the right example for our kids. And so I don't have to continue public service. The only way I'll do it is if I'm convinced that I'm somebody that can bring value and in this instance, heal the country. And we can't continue to constantly have this us versus them. We can't have People telling us that our neighbors are un American simply because they have some different views. And I feel like in Kentucky, we're further along that healing. That last election, you didn't see many signs. You didn't see neighbors yelling at each other. I don't like the way that people voted, but they still care about their neighbors and their neighbors kids. And the temperature is just so much lower in Kentucky.
- [44:33]
Matt Jones
I think Kentucky is different, and I think there's a variety of different reasons for it that probably could be a conversation for a neighbor.
- [44:40]
Andy Beshear
But if you went back to 20, the difference between the election in 20 and 2024 was significant. And I just think it's that we've been through a lot. We banded together, We've had great success. Our state's feeling optimistic when the rest of the country's feeling pessimistic. And we've moved past this. Us versus them. It's just an us.
- [44:59]
Matt Jones
Are we winning a national title this year, though? I mean, like, I know you're a Kentucky fan. I mean, there's a lot of money on that roster. Are we going. Are we going to win it?
- [45:07]
Andy Beshear
There's a lot of money in the era of nil.
- [45:10]
Matt Jones
Well, it matters.
- [45:11]
Andy Beshear
That stuff matters.
- [45:12]
Matt Jones
Now you're a Kentucky fan, right?
- [45:14]
Andy Beshear
I am, but I will say when.
- [45:16]
Matt Jones
No, don't say something good.
- [45:18]
Andy Beshear
When you're the governor of Kentucky, you got two jobs to root for your in state schools. Are you ready? And to root against Duke.
- [45:24]
Matt Jones
Okay. All right. I'm good with that. But, like, it's okay to say like, Mitch, those the L's up. You're still a Cats guy, number one, right?
- [45:32]
Andy Beshear
I grew up being a big UK fan.
- [45:33]
Matt Jones
Okay, good, good. You like Mark Pope?
- [45:36]
Andy Beshear
I do like Mark Pope. I've gotten to know him well. Very nice family. I think he goes about his job well. He's a great example and seems like just a great human being. In fact, he came to one of my son's basketball games because he was there for Malachi.
- [45:50]
Matt Jones
Yes.
- [45:52]
Andy Beshear
My son is now about 6:3 and was the backup center and.
- [45:56]
Matt Jones
Oh, so he's in high school.
- [45:58]
Andy Beshear
Yes. And Moreno, of course. Seven seven one. Dunking on everybody. I kept hoping they wouldn't bring Will in the game.
- [46:06]
Matt Jones
You didn't want your son to get dunked on?
- [46:07]
Andy Beshear
He's mainly a baseball player and I think done with basketball. But both. Both him coming over and texted me and the way he treated everyone in that gym was special. You know, there's only one person in that gym that was potentially going to Play for Kentucky. But he was talking to all the players and all the parents, and I just think that shows.
- [46:30]
Matt Jones
I think he gets the community thing we're talking about here.
- [46:32]
Andy Beshear
The women's coach. I'm also really impressed by Kenny Brooks.
- [46:36]
Matt Jones
You like?
- [46:36]
Andy Beshear
Yeah. I think he's not only an excellent coach, but from the one meeting I had with him, just an impressive human being.
- [46:43]
Matt Jones
Do you. The nil thing you got. You were like. Weren't you, like, the first governor to do the executive order or something?
- [46:48]
Andy Beshear
I was at least one of the first. And that was Coach Cal spearheading a lot of that. But we had all the coaches in together. We had Darren Horn.
- [46:56]
Matt Jones
I remember that.
- [46:57]
Andy Beshear
And the rest. It was pretty. We had Ryan Howard there from the women's team, who was wearing heels, and thus I looked tiny. Six, one. But that day, like five, eight.
- [47:10]
Matt Jones
On a personal level, I want to say, just as a citizen of the state, I have watched how, you know, on almost all of those tragedies we mentioned, I've been there, like the next day or two days after I saw you in London, the day after at the airport, you know what it's like. I mean, I still remember driving up there in London and seeing that area. I mean, you saw it. I mean, I'll never forget it. And the way you have shown humanity to those folks. I don't care if I disagreed with you on every political issue. There are some things that are more important than I see you with Robert Stiver standing there, because I know he would probably say the same thing. Just as. I just want to thank you for that, because I don't think you people realize the effect that has. And in a purely political sense, I remember looking at the 2023 map and you could see your vote total different in the areas where the tragedies were. And I think that was a reflection on how you treated those people and handled those people. So just as a citizen, I very much appreciate you for that because I think there are things that transcend politics. And then on a personal level, everybody who listens to me knows I love my mother.
- [48:30]
Andy Beshear
Yeah.
- [48:31]
Matt Jones
And you have always been so kind to her. First elected prosecutor, female in Kentucky. And so I do appreciate both those things, and I wish you the best of luck.
- [48:40]
Andy Beshear
Thank you very much, and thanks for having me on.
- [48:42]
Matt Jones
Appreciate it.
- [48:43]
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- [49:29]
Andy Beshear
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