Podcast Summary: Interrupted by Matt Jones
Episode 22 – Noam Weissman
Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Matt Jones
Guest: Noam Weissman (Host of Unpacking Israeli History Podcast)
Main Theme & Purpose
Matt Jones hosts a wide-ranging, thoughtful conversation with Noam Weissman, an educator and podcast host focused on Israeli and Middle Eastern history. The episode seeks to demystify the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by exploring its historical roots, emphasizing the importance of understanding complexity, and discussing the humanitarian, political, and personal aspects of the ongoing crisis. The tone remains accessible, occasionally self-reflective, and marked by both intellectual honesty and sincere curiosity.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Personal Background & Aspen Institute Context
- Matt & Noam’s Friendship (00:41):
- They met at the Aspen Institute Fellowship, a gathering described by Matt as “the nerdy thing that pulls me away from the show four times in the last two years.”
- Noam praises Matt as “the MVP of the Aspen Fellowship” (01:50).
- The Power of Listening:
- Matt admits he previously had little knowledge of Israeli-Palestinian issues, and Noam reflects on being surprised by this:
“Wow, I am living in my own little bubble that I think that this is what's on everyone’s mind ... and then I had no idea what that word was.” (melungeons) (04:13)
- Their initial conversations underscored the importance of stepping outside one’s information bubble.
- Matt admits he previously had little knowledge of Israeli-Palestinian issues, and Noam reflects on being surprised by this:
2. Historical Primer: Roots of the Conflict
- Complexity over Simplification (06:54):
- Noam stresses, “It’s okay for things to be complex. And when people try to make something that is complex simple, they’re doing a disservice to the world.”
- Summary of Competing Claims (07:00):
- Both Jews and Palestinians claim the same land for historical, religious, and political reasons.
- Jewish connection through ancient temples, ongoing religious ties; Palestinian/Muslim connection through centuries of conquest and residence.
- 1947 UN partition as a milestone, with rejection by the Arab side and acceptance by Jewish side.
3. Key Historical Turning Points: 1948 & 1967
- Creation of Israel (10:34):
- After WWII, British mandate, and the UN’s vote, Israel is established.
- Neighbors attack; Israel wins, but Gaza goes to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan.
- Pre-1948 context:
“There was no Jewish state. That region was known as Palestine, governed by the Brits (1917–1948), and Ottomans (prior to that).” (11:25)
- 1967 Six Day War (12:50–19:00):
- Israel, facing existential threats, launches a preemptive strike, seizing new territory.
- Land Grab? Matt pushes this point; Noam says, “Definitely not a land grab ... I believe they did it because they had major concerns about Egypt from the south and Syria from the north.” (19:01)
- The concept of the “Three Nos” (Khartoum Resolution): “No peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel.” (21:03)
- Returning Land:
- Israel later returned Sinai to Egypt through peace accords (1970s/80s) (24:04), and “gave up Gaza in 2004–05.”
4. Contemporary Flashpoints
- Oslo Accords (1990s):
- Steps toward Israeli-Palestinian mutual recognition and Palestinian autonomy (25:05).
- October 7 Attacks (2023):
- Hamas carries out a mass attack on Israel, killing 1,200 people and taking 250 hostages.
- Noam: “It was the worst day in Jewish history that any of us can remember, the worst day since the Holocaust.” (26:24)
- He explains why this was a foundational trauma for Israelis and the meaning of Zionism.
5. Hamas, Palestinian Authority, and Different Palestinian Voices
- Nature of Hamas (27:59):
- “No, they are nothing but a terrorist organization. ... Read their charter. They want to kill the Jews.”
- Distinction: Hamas ≠ All Palestinians (31:16–31:53):
- Noam highlights Palestinian moderates and the lack of elections in Gaza:
“Over 50% of Gaza’s under the age of 18, which means that none of them have ever voted in Hamas.”
- Noam highlights Palestinian moderates and the lack of elections in Gaza:
- Governance:
- Gaza is run by Hamas, while the PA (Palestinian Authority) governs parts of the West Bank.
6. Israeli Response and International Context
- Retaliatory War & Humanitarian Concerns (32:43–35:16):
- Matt asks whether Israel “went too far.”
- Noam: “Over 60,000 Palestinian people killed ... that is a tragedy.”
- On humanitarian aid: “If it is the case ... that Israel did not allow certain aid to come in ... that is not a position I would stand by.” (35:16)
- Complexities of Blame:
- Noam notes Hamas often stole humanitarian aid, complicating aid delivery.
7. Deeper Philosophical Questions
- Collective Blame & Governance (41:03):
- Matt: “What if [Palestinians] democratically elected a Hamas-type government?”
- Noam: “A democracy is not merely the right of people to vote ... It’s also a free press. It’s also not murdering people because they are gay like Hamas does ...” (41:31)
- Historical Parallels: South Africa and Israel/Palestine (38:20–39:55):
- Matt draws comparison to apartheid; Noam distinguishes based on historical and ideological differences.
8. The Media, Narrative, and Empathy
- Algorithmic Sympathy (44:33):
- Noam attributes Western sympathy for Palestinians to social media exposure:
“Algorithmically, on TikTok and Instagram ... it is being served up to you in a way that you don’t even realize.” (44:33)
- Noam attributes Western sympathy for Palestinians to social media exposure:
- Dehumanization & Team Sports:
- Noam: “We have to stop treating them like they’re team sports ... We should be team positive future for everyone.” (43:47–44:59)
- Reunion of Hostages & Prisoners:
- Matt is moved by families reuniting on both sides, “on a human level of parents seeing their children again.” (48:14)
9. Toward the Future: Peace, Leadership, and Hope
- Key Players for Peace (52:53–58:54):
- Regional Arab countries, US officials (e.g., Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff), and education seen as vital for a better future.
- Noam: “The leaders of the United Arab Emirates matter ... The Saudi leadership cannot be understated.”
- Role of the US & Trump (58:56–60:28):
- Reluctantly, both Matt and Noam credit Trump (and his team) for leveraging relationships to push peace plans:
“They did a damn good job here and I’m so, so happy ... One of the mistakes that we all make in life is that we’re not willing to root for the person that we oppose.” (60:14)
- Reluctantly, both Matt and Noam credit Trump (and his team) for leveraging relationships to push peace plans:
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- Noam on Complexity (06:54):
“It’s okay for things to be complex. And when people try to make something that is complex simple, they’re doing a disservice to the world.”
- Noam on Human Cost (33:52):
“When you have over 60,000 Palestinian people who are killed, that is a tragedy. That is an absolute horrific tragedy.”
- Noam on Empathy and Narrative (44:59):
“We shouldn't be Team Israel or Team Palestine. We should be team positive future for everyone.”
- On the Limits of Narratives Post-October 7 (29:05):
“October 7, 2023 is a moment that is not about multiple narratives. ... Hamas showcased to the world ... we are here to kill all the Jews and Israelis.”
- Noam on Hope (54:09):
“What Israelis and Palestinians need to do is their futures are tethered to each other. … What are you all going to do to figure out this future together?”
Important Timestamps
| Timestamp | Segment | |:----------|:---------------------------------------------------------| | 01:31 | Introduction of Noam and background on Aspen Fellowship | | 06:54 | Noam’s core summary: “It’s okay for things to be complex”| | 12:50 | 1967 War and its consequences | | 21:03 | The “Three Nos” of Khartoum | | 26:08 | October 7th, 2023 attack explained | | 31:53 | Who governs Gaza & West Bank? The role of Hamas and the PA| | 33:52 | Palestinian casualties and tragedy | | 35:16 | Israeli allowances and blockages of humanitarian aid | | 39:05 | Distinctions between Palestinians and Hamas | | 41:31 | Democracy and governance, limits of majority rule | | 44:59 | “Team positive future for everyone” | | 48:14 | Emotional impact of hostage and prisoner returns | | 54:09 | Pathways toward peace; regional leadership | | 58:56 | Credit (grudgingly) given to Trump and team | | 60:40 | Noam recommends Unpacking Israeli History episodes |
Episode Tone & Takeaways
- Tone: Collegial, candid, often reflective and sometimes challenging in a friendly, open way.
- Primary Takeaways:
- The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is deeply complex; easy binaries are misleading.
- Empathy for both sides’ suffering is vital; collective blame should be resisted.
- Leadership, education, and a willingness to listen (including to uncomfortable sources) are key.
- Social media and algorithms deeply influence what narratives Americans see.
- There is room for cautious hope, built on learning, dialogue, and cooperation, rather than antagonistic “teams.”
Podcast Recommendation
If you’re interested in going deeper:
“Listen to the first episode about Palestinian statehood [of Unpacking Israeli History] and then if you’re hooked, continue listening.” (60:52 – Noam Weissman)
For new listeners:
This episode is a model for how to discuss divisive global issues: with humility, patience, personal openness, and a relentless commitment to clarity and nuanced thinking. It’s rich for those wishing to understand—not just react—to one of the world’s most contentious conflicts.