Interrupted by Matt Jones

Episode 23: Jeff Goodman
Date: November 7, 2025
Host: Matt Jones
Guest: Jeff Goodman

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging conversation, Matt Jones welcomes veteran college basketball journalist Jeff Goodman for an honest and energetic discussion about the state of college basketball, shifting dynamics with Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL), roster turnovers, the evolving role of coaches, conference revenue sharing, the promise and pitfalls of incoming freshmen, and candid insights into personalities around the sport. The discussion is lively, blending inside stories, expert analysis, and backstage details, especially relating to Kentucky and the national landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of College Basketball & NIL (02:58–10:45)

• NIL's Impact:
  • Matt argues NIL has been a net positive for basketball, increasing player retention and quality play by keeping talented players in school longer.
  • Goodman agrees that there are positives, but points to concerns about “rosters turning over at such a rate” (04:25) and challenges with fan connections as kids leave frequently.
• Quality of Play:
  • Matt thinks veteran rosters are improving quality; Goodman points out that while elite programs are used to turnover, now "some of these kids, it's their fifth school in five years" (05:38).
• Portal and Offseason:
  • The transfer portal has made “April and May now…relevant for college basketball” (05:04).
  • Coaches, media, and fans are adjusting to higher roster volatility.
• International Influence:
  • Goodman: “You’ve seen such an influx [of internationals] this year like we’ve never seen before…more coachable... less money to bring in” (09:04).
  • Matt and Jeff discuss the idea of NBA teams “draft and stash” in college (11:11), reflecting nostalgia for older developmental models.

Notable Quotes

• “When the games start, I know that I’m seeing better basketball when I’m seeing juniors and seniors playing than what I was seeing before.”
  — Matt Jones (06:13)
• “Some of these kids, it’s their fifth school in five years, Matt. How is that good?”
  — Jeff Goodman (05:45)

2. The Changing Job of College Coaches (12:11–15:06)

• Transition in Coaching:
  • Matt and Goodman agree being a “great recruiter” isn’t as valuable now; roster management and staff makeup are more crucial.
  • Goodman admires Nate Oats for “going all in on NBA guys” as staff, emphasizing the trend toward specialized staff (14:17).
  • Coaches must adjust staff roles rapidly with the expectation they might only have players “for eight months” (13:31).
• NIL & Competitive Edge:
  • Matt and Goodman note that in high-stakes recruiting, “if you go with $1 million and show up at the doorstep, you’re going to get that kid” (14:28).

Notable Quotes

• "I think a great recruiter years ago isn't quite as valuable."
  — Jeff Goodman (12:55)
• “You have a million, I have 500 grand. You're going to get them...You could be my dog, and if you go with $1 million and show up at the doorstep, you're going to get that kid.”
  — Jeff Goodman (14:28)

3. NIL Revenue Share, “Real” NIL, and Conference Disparities (15:06–18:12)

• New Revenue Model:
  • Matt prompts discussion on the new “rev share” model, offering teams around $3–4 million.
  • Goodman warns this may cause conference imbalances, especially with “real NIL” schools like Kentucky, Duke, (and maybe Kansas) able to add true endorsement deals, unlike others reliant on orchestrated collective funds.
  • Potential for the Big East to have disproportionate resources for a year before rules change.

Notable Quotes

• “Kentucky and Duke have real NIL. Maybe Kansas. There’s a few schools that have real NIL…guys…can get actual endorse opportunities.”
  — Jeff Goodman (16:43)
• “Do you really think Greg Sankey is going to allow this for more than a year? No.”
  — Matt Jones (16:32)

4. The Future’s New Faces: Pipeline and the Lifespan of Modern Coaching (18:12–21:06)

• Changing of the Guard:
  • Matt: Most of college basketball’s historic coaching icons are retiring; who’s next?
  • Goodman and the group predict fewer “lifers,” as future coaches burn out or retire earlier because “it’s going to wear them out. Like, it’s never worn them out before” (19:01).
  • Nate Oats is named as someone poised for sustained success, but Goodman notes the field will be less stable.
  • Goodman recounts his complicated relationships with leading coaches, including a rift with Dan Hurley over “how he treats refs” (21:22).

Notable Quotes

• “They're making so much money. Number one, it’s going to wear them out.”
  — Jeff Goodman (18:58)

5. Potential Changes: Summer Ball, More Games, and NCAA Rulebook (22:29–24:45)

• Summer Basketball & Expanded Season:
  • Mark Pope and others advocate more summer games and exhibition opportunities, both for player development and revenue.
  • Goodman is skeptical most programs would benefit, saying “adding the games, adding the summer games is only going to benefit a dozen teams. That’s it.” (23:51)
  • Consensus: The NCAA rulebook needs a total overhaul. Goodman: “The rule book should be shredded…” (24:17)

6. Freshmen & Competitive Landscape in 2025 (24:51–29:20)

• Freshman Class Strength:
  • This year’s freshmen cohort—AJ Dybansa (BYU), Darryn Peterson (Kansas), Caleb Wilson (Carolina), Cameron Boozer (Duke)—is described as “one of the best groups I've ever seen at the top” (25:13).
• Bluebloods, Retention, and Who’s Good:
  • Goodman thinks Duke is the safest title pick due to depth and high-end talent, with Purdue and Houston lauded for program continuity.
  • Matt questions Purdue’s athleticism (“they look so unathletic to me” [29:05]), but Goodman defends their “retention”—veteran teams fare better in March.

Notable Quotes

• “This is one of the deepest classes I’ve ever seen in my 25 years of doing this.”
  — Jeff Goodman (25:34)
• “If you go up against the wrong team…they’re going to hit one of those on the way to a national title. I don't think they can win six [games].”
  — Jeff Goodman regarding Purdue (29:15)

7. Behind-the-Scenes: Coaching Personalities & Insider Tales (32:31–40:38)

• Calipari vs Pitino:

  • Goodman and Matt share inside stories of the rivalry, how both perceived themselves as the "good guy" and disliked comparison.
  • Goodman recounts that much of his personal tension with Calipari was due to his critical reporting: “There were a few things that I wrote…he had Derek Kellogg call me, like, three days before, and he goes, yeah, Cal wanted me to pass along a message that you’re not welcome in Memphis.” (35:39)
  • Discusses attempts by Calipari to have journalists—including Goodman and Matt—removed from access or even fired.

• Kentucky’s Prospects & Mark Pope:

  • Goodman believes Kentucky will always be a contender owing to resources: “There’s going to be two constants, and that’s Duke and Kentucky are always, always going to be at the top of the food chain.” (45:13)
  • On Mark Pope: Open questions remain about his ability to recruit and coach elite national recruits not from Kentucky; his team this year is “perfect for Cal” due to better guard play.

• Notable Coaching Characters:

  • Among the "best hangs" in college basketball: Andy Kennedy, Bob Huggins, Frank Martin, Tom Izzo (“there’s no bull with Izzo” [50:01]).
  • Goodman explains his philosophy toward critiquing coaches: he “goes after” those who treat staff poorly or are notorious bullies (Seth Greenberg, Tom Crean, etc).
  • Matt and Goodman discuss the difficulty of keeping professional distance when personal relationships form with coaches.

Memorable Moment

• “I wrote a column…I was at Fox saying, like, hey man, you got a chance to win the national title here. Like, you better figure this out... Cal wanted me to pass along a message that you’re not welcome in Memphis. I said, well, you can go tell him, like, you can’t ban somebody from a city. I’ll see you there Saturday.”
  — Jeff Goodman (35:26–35:56)

8. Field of 68, New Media, and Coverage Philosophy (54:02–57:57)

• The Field of 68:
  • Goodman reflects on launching the Field of 68 podcast/stream—how it began with laid-off media friends, how it’s evolved into “shows every night as a wrap up” with former players and media voices.
  • Matt praises the concept and suggests bringing the opening day event to Kentucky, which Goodman says is plausible, especially with a high-major team involved.

Notable Quotes

• “You gotta have the local teams. Yeah, but I want to get a high major matchup.”
  — Jeff Goodman (57:02)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• "Some of these kids, it’s their fifth school in five years, Matt. How is that good?"
  — Jeff Goodman (05:45)

• "I think a great recruiter years ago isn't quite as valuable."
  — Jeff Goodman (12:55)

• "If you go with $1 million and show up at the doorstep, you're going to get that kid."
  — Jeff Goodman (14:28)

• "There’s going to be two constants, and that’s Duke and Kentucky are always, always going to be at the top of the food chain."
  — Jeff Goodman (45:13)

• "When the games start, I know that I’m seeing better basketball when I’m seeing juniors and seniors playing than what I was seeing before."
  — Matt Jones (06:13)

• "It’s going to wear them out. Like, it’s never worn them out before."
  — Jeff Goodman (19:01)

• “This is one of the deepest classes I’ve ever seen in my 25 years of doing this.”
  — Jeff Goodman (25:34)

• "I love Izzo because there’s no bull with Izzo. Like none. Like, he doesn’t care."
  — Gary Parrish (50:01)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & Guest Welcome – 02:11
• State of College Basketball & NIL – 03:06–10:45
• Coaching Changes, Staff Building, and NIL Environment – 12:11–15:06
• Revenue Share, Conference Disparities, “Real NIL” – 15:06–18:12
• Next Generation of Coaches & Burnout – 18:19–21:06
• Summer Ball, Rule Changes & NCAA Critique – 22:29–24:45
• Freshman Class & Early Season Landscape – 24:51–29:20
• Bluebloods, Coach Comparisons, and Personal Rifts – 32:31–40:38
• Goodman’s Coaching Stories & Relationships Philosophy – 50:01–54:01
• Field of 68: Media, Coverage, and Growth – 54:02–57:57

Tone & Style

The conversation is open and direct, alternating between deep basketball nerdiness (“stat-head talk,” as Matt calls it), reflections on industry change, and irreverent memories of the sport’s characters. Goodman brings an old-school reporting edge—honest and occasionally combative—while Matt guides the discussion through Kentucky-centric concerns and national trends. The dialogue is peppered with sarcasm, personal anecdotes, and clear camaraderie.

Summary Takeaways

• College basketball is simultaneously thriving in fan engagement but struggling with player retention, rampant transfers, and increasingly complex recruiting.
• NIL benefits “bluebloods” and has shifted program strategies, with the coming “revenue share” likely to create new forms of haves and have-nots.
• The archetype of the “career” coach may fade, as burnout and industry pressures mount.
• The incoming freshman class is elite—a highlight for the coming season.
• Kentucky, under Mark Pope, stands at another program crossroads: offensively innovative but still needing to prove national recruiting and competitive success.
• The ongoing evolution of coverage, with platforms like Field of 68, reflects the sport’s generational turnover on and off the court.

Recommended for:
Anyone interested in understanding the shifting realities of college basketball—from fan, coach, or media perspectives—especially those following Kentucky and wanting insider analysis on the game’s business, culture, and personalities.