Episode 31 - Tom Hart

Summary

Interrupted by Matt Jones – Episode 31: Tom Hart

Released: Feb 20, 2026
Guest: Tom Hart (ESPN/SEC Network play-by-play broadcaster)
Host: Matt Jones

Episode Overview

Matt Jones sits down with acclaimed ESPN and SEC Network broadcaster Tom Hart for a lively, candid conversation on sports media, the inner workings of broadcasting, building connections with fanbases (especially Kentucky fans), and navigating the changing landscape of college athletics. Their discussion weaves in personal anecdotes, a behind-the-scenes look at sports commentary, lessons on authenticity, and deep dives into Kentucky basketball — all while maintaining a loose, relatable, humorous tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sports Media Personalities: Authenticity, Frauds, and Evolution

[02:11–05:45]

• Personal relationships and changing opinions: Matt and Tom discuss how getting to know people in sports media makes it harder to be critical of them, realizing that most people are complex rather than purely good or bad.
• "Frauds" in the industry: Matt singles out Clay Travis as someone he views as inauthentic but acknowledges his transformation may now be genuine.
  • Matt Jones: "He is not the person he says he is...maybe he's not a fraud anymore. He's just a jerk. You know, I don't know." [05:12]
• Career pressure and “filter down” effect: Tom explains that as college sports has become more lucrative, some move into it as just a job, not out of passion, which can make broadcasts feel less genuine.

2. The Power of Fan Connections and Local Flavor

[06:43–12:17]

• Maintaining passion amid career success: Both reflect on how being constantly recognized for one thing (sports talk) can be draining, but how showing interest in others’ opinions builds genuine connections, especially during isolating periods like COVID.
• Tom Hart’s strategy: Tom actively talks to locals at each game site to capture the true “feel” for broadcasts.
• Universality of sports energy: Both share stories about feeling game-day electricity, whether at Rupp Arena, Missouri, or even a rivalry soccer match in South Africa.

3. Inside Baseball: Building Rapport on Broadcasts

[12:17–18:14]

• Integrating local references: Tom shares he intentionally adds in-jokes for Kentucky (and other fanbases) during telecasts, strengthening his bond with fans.
  • Classic example: The “Free Matt Jones” shout-out during Matt’s ESPN suspension, which was particularly meaningful to Matt. [16:11]
• Handling mispronunciation mishaps: Tom recounts mispronouncing Bam Adebayo’s name four ways in one game and how accountability from Kentucky fans even followed him to a funeral. [12:12]
  • Quote: "We had worked together for a couple of years...and he goes, really? Adebouyah, Adebubu, Adebodom? You can't figure that out? ...He goes, yeah, it matters to us." [13:12]

4. The Need for Personalization and Personality in Broadcasting

[18:14–22:55]

• Why fans want more than “generic announcers”: Personalized touches lead to stronger loyalty and “grace” from fans when mistakes happen.
  • Tom Hart: "If I would have made that same Adebayo mistake five years later...I would have been given an enormous amount of grace." [19:11]
• Importance of local/national dynamic: Matt compares his own “fanboy moment” on meeting Hurricanes announcer Tripp Tracy to why people are excited to meet him or Tom; radio and local TV create deeper, more lasting connections than national TV.

5. The Broadcaster’s Toolbox: Adaptability and Saying Yes

[24:44–34:32]

• Tom’s versatile career: He’s called everything from swimming and diving with Rowdy Gaines, to Korean baseball (“learned how to read Korean weather reports”), to lacrosse, and had to learn new sports rapidly.
  • Tom emphasizes the importance of humility, preparation, and when it is fair to say “no” for the good of the players/fans.
• Korean baseball during COVID: ESPN’s only live sports at the time meant an early-morning scramble, contract oddities, and major on-the-fly adjustments—including learning rosters only minutes before air due to rainouts.
  • Quote: "There was only so much information you could even find on these guys...but the night before, I did all this prep...then, 30 minutes before game time, they switched me to two brand new teams." [33:53]

6. The Value of Entertainment Over Expertise

[35:27–44:05]

• Why Matt Jones “works” on ESPN: Matt credits his relatability and passion for KY/UK, not encyclopedic knowledge. Myron Medcalf complements him because he can have fun; most former players take themselves too seriously.
• The shift to personality-driven sports media: They credit the success of Pat McAfee, Pardon My Take, etc. for changing the expectations at ESPN—entertainment and authenticity now matter more than expertise alone.
  • Quote: "There’s an inverse relationship to being good at sports and being someone who’s really entertaining, talking about them." – Matt Jones [41:12]

7. Play-by-Play Skills and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

[44:05–50:58]

• Matt’s first national broadcast and panic: Matt describes the fear before his ESPN radio football play-by-play debut, confessing he called Tom “in a panic.” Tom assures him “say what you see" is the key, helping Matt center himself.
  • Quote: “Say what you see—sounds so basic…throughout the game, Tom, when you’re good at this, you feel when it’s not good…‘Say what you see,’ and that’s all." – Matt Jones [47:28]
• Learning through failure: Tom shares his own early-career blunders, including the infamous “hand job out in right field” slip-up when he tried to blend lingo live (“in on the hands” + “jam job” = hand job). [53:13]
  • Memorable moment: Tom nearly walked out of the booth laughing and feared he’d be fired. “For better or for worse, not a soul heard it.” [53:58]

8. Embracing Your Mistakes and Staying Human

[59:19–61:28]

• Handling on-air screw-ups: Tom insists he wants partners to immediately call him out (“please call me out on it”). When no one does, you sound isolated and less authentic.
• Importance of camaraderie: They reference Jason Witten’s struggle in the MNF booth: mistakes are easier when acknowledged and laughed about as peers would.
  • Quote: "If my...nothing against my partner...but if somebody would have said...did I say Butch Davis? By the way, Butch Davis lost 73 to nothing today...It gives you a chance to play it off, and you look human, which we all are. And I think fans appreciate that." – Tom Hart [61:28]

9. Kentucky Basketball Deep Dives

[61:29–68:07]

• Best Kentucky player (2012-present): Tom says Oscar Tshiebwe for college dominance, but notes most fans wouldn’t pick him.
• Behind the scenes stories: Tom discusses his decision to share Oscar's plane premonition story on air, balancing newsworthiness and sensitivity.
• Coaching transition—Calipari to Pope: Tom describes Mark Pope’s relentlessly positive approach vs. Calipari’s intensity, the challenges of roster construction in the transfer/portal/NIL era, and why the “vibe” around UK feels off this year (point guard play, lack of “bad cop,” less time to build relationships).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On sports media “frauds”:
  "Clay Travis is probably my least favorite because I know he's full of it." – Matt Jones [03:21]
• On changing perspective after meeting people:
  “It's harder when you meet people...I guess as I’ve gotten older, I think less people are bad people. I think people are like, complicated.” – Matt Jones [04:37]
• On building fan connection:
  “When a fan base knows who you are...if the fan base feels like they know you...you get grace for when you make those mistakes that are going to happen.” – Tom Hart [18:14]
• On behind-the-scenes laughter:
  “We had a Johnson hand job.” – Matt Jones, after Tom’s infamous play-call slip [53:30]
• On broadcasting style change:
  “[The greatest] people that have been legends...they understood entertainment...I think there's an inverse relationship to being good at sports and being someone who's really entertaining, talking about them.” – Matt Jones [41:12]
• On supporting fellow broadcasters:
  “If I screw something up, please call me out on it. That’s the way to do it. You don't want a jerk...but...it gives you a chance to play it off, and you look human, which we all are.” – Tom Hart [60:06]
• On the new UK basketball era:
  “What impacted me the most when I first went to a Mark Pope practice was how relentlessly positive he was...” – Tom Hart [66:22]

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Key Timestamps

• 02:11 – Introduction to Tom Hart and early discussion of sports media personalities
• 06:43 – The isolating effect of national attention and joys of local/fan connection
• 12:17 – Tom’s use of KSR and other local references in broadcasts
• 16:11 – Story of “Free Matt Jones” on national TV
• 18:14 – Why personalization in sports media is crucial
• 24:44 – Adapting to new sports as a broadcaster; Korean baseball in COVID
• 41:12 – Entertainment vs. expertise in sports media
• 47:28 – “Say what you see”: Tips for play-by-play newbies
• 53:13 – Tom’s “hand job” on-air blooper story
• 61:29 – Reflecting on best UK players & sharing the Oscar plane story
• 65:17 – Contrasting Calipari vs. Pope’s coaching styles

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers rare transparency about the pressures, pitfalls, and joys of sports media — and the delicate dance between authenticity, entertainment, and local connection that makes announcers beloved. Whether sharing slip-ups or explaining why fans love what’s local, Matt and Tom revel in what sets Kentucky fans, KSR, and enduring broadcasters apart.

A must-listen for anyone interested in sports media, Kentucky basketball, or understanding the humanity behind the microphone.

Transcript

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[Tom Hart]

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[Tom Hart]

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[Matt Jones]

It is episode 31 of Interrupted by Matt Jones and we are excited to have one of my favorite people, maybe my favorite person in sports media. Now I could say outside of my crew, probably the person that I get along with the most is Tom Hart of espn and I realized you hadn't been on here yet, which kind of surprised me. So thanks for joining us this week.

[Tom Hart]

Happy to do it and happy to know that somehow I leapfrog Dan Dockage for that honor. Thank you.

[Matt Jones]

Are in front of Dan Dockage. Although I will say Dan Dakotch said something nice. Has checked on my. Has checked a couple times on my dad, which is nice. I saw him, I saw him at the super bowl. And I don't think I'm speaking out of school to say this, but he came up to me and he said, I said, you know what? Thank you very much for what you said about my dad. And he goes, you know, a lot of people don't realize this, but, you know, life is more important than politics. And I was like, I feel like most people realize that. Like, I don't. I feel like, I mean, I feel like that goes without saying. I would hope, but he was, he did have nice work.

[Tom Hart]

Who was your least favorite person in media? In sports media. Oh, now see, who would be on your Mount Rushmore?

[Matt Jones]

Well, before he said that about my, about my dad, he would have been towards the top. I now can't say that I think my least favorite of the people that I think are frauds. Like, in terms of people. I don't want to make you have to comment on this, but, like, people I know are not true versions of themselves. So Clay Travis is probably my least favorite because I know he's full of. Full of it. I don't know that there's anyone. I can't think in sports. You know, the thing is, Tom, by not knowing anyone, it makes it easy. Like, you know, you know more people than I do, so you probably dislike more people.

[Tom Hart]

You're insulated. I actually remember one of the first times we had an in depth conversation. Matt was in Omaha at the College World Series and Kentucky wasn't playing.

[Matt Jones]

I just went as a fan. Yeah, right.

[Tom Hart]

And one of the discussions we had was that you guys as a group and maybe you specifically had this. And this was kind of the barstool guys back in the beginning. Like, you could attack authority.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

And then the more successful you get and the closer get the authority and the more money that comes in, you go, oh, but that guy's a buddy of mine. Or I run in those circles and maybe I shouldn't offend.

[Matt Jones]

Well, for me, it's not the money. For me, it's not the money. It's just. Well, first of all, I had this conversation with pft. You know, they used to attack everybody and now they have all those people on their show. It's harder when you meet people because you start to learn that, like, no one's perfect. I still feel like I will attack almost anyone if I think they're a bad person. But I guess, Tom, as I've gotten older, I think less people are bad people. I think people are like complicated, so they have good traits and bad traits. You know what I mean?

[Tom Hart]

So even the frauds and hypocrites, like,

[Matt Jones]

like Clay Travis, like Clay Travis is an interesting example because I think his entire public Persona is fraudulent. He is not the person he says he is. But at the same time, I don't. When I knew Clay, I didn't think he was a bad person. He was just obsessed with money and success to the point that he created a new version of reality. But like, he may be that guy now. He just wasn't original. Sure. You know, so. So maybe he's not a fraud anymore. He's just a jerk. You know, I don't know.

[Tom Hart]

I. I see that to an extent. On the game calling side and some of the sports I'm involved with that there are people who kind of filter down to the college sports landscape. I grew up a huge college sports fan. Like, I love my job. I think you know that about me. Would I say no to the NBA or NFL? No, I'd go do it. But I love going to the places I go because that was my dream as a kid. There's so much opportunity now involved specifically in the sec, but throughout college football that people kind of filter down to it and it's a job instead of a passion. And there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people have jobs that they're not truly passionate about. But it's all I'm going to put on this face and make this a performance as opposed to having this passion for real. And that kind of annoys me sometimes when I'm sitting at home watching a game that I would love to be at and hear these people that are just kind of faking it or going through the motions or just reading off the game notes.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I understand what you mean.

[Tom Hart]

Just showing up to get a check.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, Like I still have the passion for the job. So I still love the two hours a day I'm on the radio. I still love interacting with the KSR guys. I've grown to really love my time with Myron in that show. So my passion for sports as an entity probably has gone down a little bit just because it used to be a part of my life and it now is my life. I'm sure this happens with you. It is tough to. Every time you meet someone, they only want to talk about one aspect of your life. You know what I mean? So, like, I consider myself a multifaceted person, but most people only want to talk to me about a facet that is important to me but is not the most important thing to me. And so that part has been an adjustment that has probably made me, you know, I can only have people say to me so many times, so much. I mean, how you think the Cats are going to do this year? You know, it's like. I mean, I think about it every day.

[Tom Hart]

You need, though.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Maybe that's a buffer that you need. Like, if some stranger comes up to you in the Kroger produce aisle, if you ever spend time there, and they start talking about, let's say, politics. Yeah. And they're on the totally opposite side. And. Because, honestly, when you meet people in public, they generally want to tell you just what they feel. Asking about Kentucky basketball.

[Matt Jones]

Yes. And I'm okay with that.

[Tom Hart]

Just to tell you their opinion.

[Matt Jones]

I totally agree. I learned the best trait you can have, I think, to make friends is a trait that I was really bad at for a long time, which is, like, wanting to hear other people's opinions, because I didn't really want to hear anyone's opinion, but people. I realized, like, a few years, like, probably around Covid, like most people, no one ever asks what they think about anything. Right.

[Tom Hart]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

And so if you take a genuine interest in someone in their opinion, they actually. It really is meaningful to them. And I realized that during COVID because I had all these people. Tom. Writing me. And you listen to our show, so, you know.

[Tom Hart]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

Like, I had all these people writing me with very deep, emotional things they were writing, and I'm a stranger. And I started to occur to me, like, these people are lonely, and if I am kind back to them, that's valuable. And I did that a lot. And it helped me some during that. And I agree with you. I think that's. That's a good lesson to. You're great at this. You're a great listener. I watch you do that with people.

[Tom Hart]

Well, it's. It is sometimes hard, but I. I'd like to tell myself, like, when I'm in Starkville or Lexington or Athens, it helps me get a feel for the place that I'm in for that day or for those three days. And. And I think that's one of my strengths is relating what it's like to be there, because as a fan, when I'm at home, I want to feel what it's like to be at that game. I Can't be there. I'm watching it two dimensionally on tv. Help me understand what it's like on campus, what the feeling is in the building. What were the nerves like before the game? We all know when you walk into a big game, whether you get there five minutes before tip or two and a half hours, you can feel that nervous energy in the building and that electricity. God, that was my favorite feeling as a fan. Right. You walk in Miss to go to games at Hearn center. At Mizzou was their old arena. It was really steep, it was loud. And I remember specifically being there for it had to have been a big Monday game. I know, it was a weeknight game.

[Matt Jones]

This is at Missouri, right? Is this Missouri?

[Tom Hart]

Missouri? Yeah, yeah. And the concourse, like, you know, the concourse was closed off so you had to walk through the vomitorium to get to the arena. And I just remember I was probably middle school walking through the concourse. And you could feel the band playing from the concourse. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Jones]

No show, right? Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Like this is big. Like this place is buzzing. And it was probably 30 minutes for tip. And I'll never forget that feeling. And I love it when I get that feeling, you know, when I go into work.

[Matt Jones]

Like, that's RUP Arena. That's RUP arena at its best. And it happens handful of times a year. There's a. Nobody understands the implications of a big game like Kentucky fans. And so even though we lost the 45 minutes before Cal's first game back in Rup, I. I will always remember the emotion and just what was happening in that bill and how it felt. And I like, that is a really, really cool thing. That's what sports gives you. But see, you can have that in places where you don't have a personal connection. So like when I was in South Africa, I went to a soccer game where these two massive teams were playing each other and there was a rivalry and I didn't even know who was what. But was that same feeling. It's universal. Like the, oh, this is about to be something. And I really like that now you have a big connection with Kentucky fans. I think from our friendship and from you listening to ksr, I'm sure nowhere are you more popular than with the Kentucky fan base. Would you agree with that?

[Tom Hart]

Yes, but it hasn't always been that way. You know, before you guys probably got to know me and you and I got to know each other, I would did a couple Kentucky games. Games where I didn't get off to a great start. I mean, I think I've shared this story with you before, but you know, my Caliperi history goes way back to his Memphis days, but my Kentucky history doesn't have that much depth. And I was in there to do a game pre Christmas non conference game. I said, you would have known, you would know what year this was. But Bam was on the team. And I pronounced Adebayo four different ways.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, I. That was you. I remember. Actually, I didn't know that was you.

[Tom Hart]

I knew the right way. I couldn't figure it out.

[Matt Jones]

You said Adebayo. Right? You said Adebayo.

[Tom Hart]

Well, I'm schlissing. I wasn't the only one to screw it up. It's not exactly Smith, but I screwed it up.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Finally at halftime I was like, Tom, you gotta get this right, like figure it out. And I figured it out. Okay. So you know, it's kind of hard to have a whole lot of self confidence when you know you've screwed something up. I'd forgotten about it. I literally go to a funeral two weeks later and this guy sidles up to me. We had worked together for a couple of years, we're really good friends as a huge UK fan, and he comes up to me at the funeral and we're going to talk about our dear friend Mike, our former boss, who's in a casket, you know, 30 yards away and he goes, really? At a booyah. At a boo boo. At a bottom. You can't figure that out? I was like, dude, we are, we're in the back of the church right now. We. And he goes, he goes, yeah, it matters to us.

[Matt Jones]

It does.

[Tom Hart]

I get it, I get it. Yeah. And it should, and it should. And I felt horrible. But yeah, it wasn't always. So give people.

[Matt Jones]

So you do these KSR references in these games. Okay, so you, you're, you're a reg. I mean you're a regular listener to the show. Clearly. Sometimes you, you text me. I think you listen to them a lot on your trips because you'll listen to a bunch back to back and you'll text me sometimes and you, you make the decision. Okay, I'm going to try to get these three or four things in. When you work with Dane Bradshaw or Jimmy Dykes or whoever, do they ever know what you're talking about?

[Tom Hart]

That's a great and fair question. One point of clarity here. I do this with a lot of different fan bases. It just happens more often with Kentucky because of your show and because of the community that you guys have created. I mean it's really interwoven until the. Into the fabric of the fan base and it's received well. Like, if it wasn't received well, I would have quit doing it a long time ago. But I have references for Starkville and for Columbia and, you know, Columbia, South Carolina, which is famous for getting stuck behind trains. So sometimes I'll mention, you know, getting stuck behind a train. I'm doing a game in South Carolina. And their fan base goes, oh, yeah, this guy gets it. Like he's been here, he's driven around this town. I get some confusion from my partners generally. Like, Dane gets it and he knows where I'm going. And there have been a time or two where I've said in advance, hey, listen, there's a very specific line I'm going to use tonight and it references something random from this radio show. You don't have to comment on it. You don't have to, you know, be involved. And you don't have to look at me like I'm crazy. Sometimes it just happens naturally where it makes sense anyway. But my favorite, you know, my favorite was when I was working with Andy Kennedy and this was during the free Matt Jones era.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Hart]

And I think I remember I brought it up with AK and there's a big dunk. I. I had thrown it out there earlier in the broadcast. He glommed onto it and we're going to. There's a big dunk going to break. And he goes, oh, what a dunk.

[Matt Jones]

Free Man Jones. You know how much. Okay, that was.

[Tom Hart]

Can I finish this?

[Matt Jones]

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

[Tom Hart]

Yeah, yeah, real quick. So then we. That's going to commercial break. We go to break. We've got three minutes. He takes his headset off, I take mine off. He looks at me, he goes, so who the hell is Matt John? And I go, I go, well, you know, as much as I can tell you in 30 seconds. And he goes, I didn't just make like some massive political comment with that, did I? And he goes, ah, I don't care. Whatever. You know, we move on. Because that's how.

[Matt Jones]

He doesn't seem like a guy who would have strong worries about that stuff. You know, he. I remember when that happened and that was during the part that I actually was not allowed on air. And I remember watching that game and I was watching it with my then girlfriend in New York City because I was there, I was writing my book and I was suspended. I was not allowed to be on the radio. And actually that meant a lot. You know, I laugh at all the Ones you do because you do them almost every game. But that one really felt like. Like, that one felt like to me, you know, you had to really want to do that because that was like, specifically my name. Because, like, when you do the quarter zip thing with Billy, like, if somebody doesn't know, they probably. They don't even like, register that, that, that that's something. But it does. Does make people feel like you're connected. And you said you do that with other teams. I do wonder, Tom, you know, as we get closer and closer in AI and these sort of like, everything is personalized. Your algorithm is personalized. Everything is so individually tailored to you. I would argue doing things like that maybe matters more now so that people feel like, I don't want to just hear a broadcaster, I want to hear Tom Hart. Because Kentucky fans, I think, would choose you to do every game. Do you agree with that? Do you think those connections to the listeners may matter more as you keep going?

[Tom Hart]

Oh, I think they absolutely matter. Yeah. And your friend Ian Eagle and I talked about this. I saw him in November and we talked about the Kentucky fan base and, and the weight that it carries. And he brought this up just before I did. When a fan break, a fan base knows who you are. This goes back to the beginning of our discussion. It's hard to be critical of someone that you know personally.

[Matt Jones]

Yes.

[Spinquest Announcer]

Right.

[Tom Hart]

And if the fan base feels like they know you, which, by the way, the number one thing is to make a connection. And usually that only happens in local broadcasts. Right. When you're watching the Reds, you know the history of those guys and you want to list to Barry Larkin.

[Matt Jones]

And I don't. I don't want to listen to Barry Larkin. I want to listen to. I want to listen to Jeff Brantley, and I want to listen to. What's his name. There's a couple, but Barry L. Nice guy, but Barry Larkin's a bad announcer. But. And I'm not going to make you comment on that, but go ahead.

[Tom Hart]

No, but Brantley is a great example. That. That would be a much better example. Right. Like, he. He's a guy that everybody would love to have a beer with, and many probably have, but what it does is if I would have made that same Adebayo mistake five years later, I'm not saying people still wouldn't been bothered by it, but I would have been given an enormous amount of grace. And so listen, nobody is perfect, and I'm certainly not, but what I truly appreciate is when people know that you're invested in Something that matters to them, then you get grace for when you make those mistakes that are going to happen. I despise generic announcers. I despise announcers that can't have fun on that, can't entertain that, that don't seem like they want to be themselves. So what are you doing it for? Like, I have an amazing job, but there's a lot of sacrifice that goes along with it. If I didn't love what I was doing, I wouldn't be on 6am flights four times a week to go do it right, so. And, and the Kentucky fan base is the largest in this regard, but there's nothing wrong with being ingrained with the largest college basketball fan base when I'm a college basketball fan myself.

[Matt Jones]

And the sec, I do think, feels a connection to its conference announcers. I mean, like, you know, even Jimmy Dykes, people get frustrated with all that. But we've. We've heard him for 15 years. Like, he is the SEC, an SEC guy, and so are you. You know, that connection with local announcers. This is the best example I can give you. Me. All right. I don't. I don't get excited about meeting anybody in broadcasting anymore. There'd be. Tony Kornizer would be the only person that I would get excited to meet in broadcasting. But a few weeks ago, I was in Newark. I was in Newark to watch the Carolina Hurricanes play, playing the New Jersey Devils. And I watch almost every Carolina Hurricanes game. And their announcers trip Tracy. And all of a sudden, I look up, and he's right in front of me. He's Tripp Tracy. Not one person listening to this knows who Tripp Tracy is. I kind of freaked out. I kind of freaked out, and I was like, tripp Tracy. And he looked at me and he was like, who are you? And I go, I listen to you. I. Like, I. I couldn't. I couldn't even believe myself. I'm like, why am I going crazy for this man? I'm a foot taller than he is. Like, what am I doing? But I got really excited, and then I. It made me think, okay, that's how sometimes people feel when they talk to us. And I need to remember that excitement I had for Tripp Tracy, because he was very nice to me in that moment. And that's what, that's what radio. Tom, you have done radio in your life. That's what radio does. And local tv, that national TV will never do is make you feel that.

[Tom Hart]

Yeah, well. And I, I, I, I keep trying to make it happen right and, and I think, I think our college football crew, like, we've been doing it long.

[Matt Jones]

You and Jordan and Cole. Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

And it's. Listen, I think those guys are amazing analysts and, and so good at what they do, and I think we make a good team. But I think it's that familiarity that people kind of know what they're getting, that they're, they're comfortable with that. And I think that you, you rise to a. You rise in stature not because your talent gets any better or because you execute better. It's because people get more familiar and more comfortable with it. I just want to follow up one thing you said earlier, how it meant so much you to hear your name when everything you were going through and you're sitting in an apartment in New York. It's one of the most powerful things we can do during a broadcast. And it's, it's mentioning somebody by name.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Who's going through something significant. It could be, could be the birth of the child. Right. And you're able to throw that out there. And, and it takes four seconds to

[Matt Jones]

do, man, it makes a huge difference. Huge.

[Tom Hart]

And, and it's. I don't want to say it's easy, but it's the easiest thing I can do to impact someone's life. That takes nothing except for being aware and being considerate enough to mention it in that moment. That's my favorite part. That, that moment when I can do that, it's great. That's part of my job.

[Matt Jones]

Clayton and Chrome was founded on a simple idea. All leather goods should last a lifetime. They make everything from bags, belts, wallets, and much more. And the best part, they're doing it right here in Kentucky. You can check them [e-mail] C R U M or visit one of their retail stores in Louisville, Charleston, and now open in Nashville. Clayton and Croon Quality goods Built to last. Yeah, so I play by play is a real skill, as I learned when I did my ESPN game, which we'll talk about in a minute. But I want to talk about part of being a play by play guys. You have to do a lot of different stuff. So I'm just sitting here thinking what I've heard you do do. I've heard you do college basketball and college football. Obviously you've done a lot of stuff over the years for the Braves. So that's baseball. I know during COVID you did Korean baseball, which had to be like a wild experience. What else have you done? And then tell me about getting ready for Korean baseball. What's that? That, like,

[Tom Hart]

I learned how to read Korean weather reports, which I'll get to in a second. One of my first TV jobs was first opportunities was swimming and diving, which I knew nothing of.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

But I got to work with hall of Famer Rowdy Gaines, and I was at least smart enough to get out of the way.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, right.

[Tom Hart]

I mean, Rowdy had already been doing the Olympics for years. And so, hey, here are the competitors. Here's the world record. Here they go. And I told Rowdy, I said, listen, we're watching the. Whatever race it is. I said, I don't know swimming well enough. I don't. I can't see that moment when swimmer B gets a kick and is therefore going to catch swimmer.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

I was like, I got no chance. I mean, yeah, we could see in the 100 meter dash when you see a guy closing. But, like, in the pool, I got no shot. I was like, please, just lean on you. Yeah, yeah, take it. Take it. You tell me, because that's your job. Also, like, tell me what I'm seeing, because I can't see it. I'm a. I'm a viewer. I'm a. I'm a fan in that regard. Swimming and diving, softball, all these other college offshoots. I got asked to do lacrosse one time. Well, I asked to do the NCAA hockey postseason. Okay, and you what? I tell kids all the time who look for advice, don't ever say no to it.

[Matt Jones]

I totally agree. Just say yes.

[Tom Hart]

However, there are times where you can be honest about it. And the guy who called me, I was in a fairly decent position at espn, but still climbing my way up. I said, listen, I'm happy to do hockey if you'd like. Not only have I never called hockey, I've been to two games in my life, and they were both St. Louis Blues games. I don't know a thing about hockey except what I see on tv. Now, I've got time to prepare, and I'll get the nuts and bolts down, and I'll get the names right, and I'll have the rules in front of me. But I don't think it's fair to the players, coaches and fans. The biggest time of the year, the NCAA tournament, to have me calling hockey. If I was a basketball fan and some hockey announcer came in to call the sweet 16, I'd be pissed. Right? So I explained that to him, and he kind of stroked his chin. He goes, huh? I never thought of it like that. Okay, I'll call you back if I need you. And luckily I didn't have to. Same thing with lacrosse. I was asked to do Ohio State lacrosse game, I think against Navy. And it was played at noon before the Ohio State spring football game. This was when I worked for the Big Ten network. It was Urban Meyer's first spring football game.

[Matt Jones]

So it was going to be a lot of people.

[Tom Hart]

Yeah, it's a big deal. And so I tried the same tack with, with that boss. I said, listen, I'm happy to do lacrosse of show up, but I've never been to a lacrosse game in my life. Yeah, I said, so I, you know, I would recommend finding someone else who would better be better suited for it. And I'm happy to do the football game. And he goes, do you want to do the football game or not? So of course it's Urban Meyer, it's Ohio State, it's springing. And he goes, whoever's calling the spring football game.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, they're doing the lacrosse game. So you did it.

[Tom Hart]

And I went, well, I can't wait to call across. What am I going to say?

[Matt Jones]

That's great.

[Tom Hart]

So there's a handful of, of minor sports like that.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, my moment.

[Tom Hart]

You just want to make sure you do my moment.

[Matt Jones]

Like that was my start with ESPN where I'd been trying for three years to get to do something on espn. And my agent calls and says, ESPN would like you to do the college football wrap up show at mid, at 11 o' clock Eastern for, for, for the, for the games this year. And I said, I'd love to, man, but I have this new Kentucky thing. And if we, and that was the. When Mark Stoops was kind of rolling, we were playing a lot of Saturday night games that you were doing. And I was like, I just, I can't. I'll have to miss like half of them. My agent was like, this will be, I mean, you might not get asked again. Like you got to do it. And I said, I just can't. I'm sorry, I like, I can't. And he goes, all right, next, like 10 minutes later, calls me and goes, all right. They said they didn't, they understood. And he goes, I can't believe this tactics work. But now they've offered the NFL pregame show the next morning. And I go, well, that's better. But I don't watch the NFL and I like watch like the super bowl and that's it. And sometimes the Bears. And he goes, figure it out. And I had two weeks to prepare and learn the NFL and we Were opening our bar and there are pictures of me sitting at the bar while we're doing construction. I had a book I wrote, bought the Football Outsiders football yearbook and just wrote long notes about each team, which seems funny to me today because I wouldn't use any of that now. But, but I was like, you got to learn because I don't know if I'll ever get a chance like this again. And it worked out. But. So tell me, the Korean baseball.

[Tom Hart]

Yeah. I didn't want to do it because

[Matt Jones]

nothing else was on espn. Right. That was the only thing they were going to be. That was the only sports going on.

[Tom Hart]

Yeah, yeah. And, and ESPN at the time had gone to a lot of its announcers, a lot of its talent and said, hey, we want you to take a pay cut.

[Matt Jones]

Yes.

[Tom Hart]

Because we're in the middle of this, you know, once in a lifetime deal and everybody's losing money and they didn't ask me to take a pay cut. Luckily, I've made so little that they didn't.

[Matt Jones]

That's the way to be at espn. I'm there too. They don't.

[Tom Hart]

I remember I, we'd gone to visit my in laws and we're on the drive back and this particular boss called and he said, hey, I gotta be careful how much I share here. But he was like, hey, I need guys for Korean baseball. And he goes, but the way we're going to redo your contract and we're basically, I'm going to use you for about 30 games, but we're not going to pay you for half of them.

[Matt Jones]

No.

[Tom Hart]

And I said, that doesn't make any sense. He goes, well, we're going to backfill this contract from this year and flip it over here. And I, I was very honest with him. I said, I'm not sure if, I'm not sure if that's a great idea. Certainly on my behalf. I was like, let me talk to my agent about it. And he goes, you can talk to your agent all you want. Here's the deal. He goes, I've got one box of remote equipment that's going out and if you don't say yes right now, it's going to the next guy on the list. And by the way, I knew the next guy on the list and I knew where he stood in relation to where I stood. And this boss knew exactly the position he was putting me in. Yeah, right. Because if you get leapfrogged, you're not leaping frogging that guy again. Yeah, it's done. And so I Said, all right, yeah, send the box, send the box. And so once we were doing it, once I got past that frustration, it was amazing. And how did you learn how to

[Matt Jones]

pronounce everybody's name

[Tom Hart]

there? The funny part is there were already guys calling the games. And I reached out to every one of them. I said, hey, help me out. But nobody got back to me. Nobody responded with, you know, here's how you say this one, here's. And so the day before, and there wasn't much prep to do like you. There was only so much information you could even find on these guys. Even in the Internet era now, every team had, I think, two Americans on it. And so you could find plenty of information on those guys and you would kind of lean into that. But the night before, I did all this prep for these two teams. And listen, the best way you can call a game is to have your prep done and not need it, right?

[Matt Jones]

Yes.

[Tom Hart]

Kentucky basketball. I could parachute in and call whatever. I don't need that stuff. I know who's a good shooter, who's not. I don't need the specific numbers.

[Matt Jones]

This.

[Tom Hart]

I was like, I better be prepared. Yeah, Matt. I went to bed that night. My idea was I'm going to go to bed early, which I never do. I went to bed as early as possible. I laid around. I had to get up, I think 4am, get up at 4, come down, make some coffee, get. I'm sitting in this right at the same desk, get everything ready, get logged in. And I noticed there's a tarp on the field and it's raining.

[Matt Jones]

Oh no. You had to fill a rain delay.

[Tom Hart]

And no, I asked, I said, well, what do we do? What are we going to do here? And I think, I think the game started at 5. Yeah, they generally went 5 to 8 at Eastern AM and they said, well, AM yeah. So you know, you got to be up early, you got to be connected early. So 5 to 8am you're calling a baseball game. So this was at about 4:30, I go, what? Hey, the tarp's still on the field, what are we going to do? And they go, hold on a second, we're double checking something. And at like 4:35 they said, okay, we're not doing this game anymore. We're going to do this game.

[Matt Jones]

Oh my God. They switched game good games. Two brand new teams. That's great.

[Tom Hart]

And now I don't have my lineup card filled out. I don't have any idea who anybody is on either one of these teams. I'm In a full panic mode. My partner was like, dude, don't worry about it. Nobody's expecting us to be Vince Gully. Like, they only want these games to be on A, as a diversion and B, to give them something to gamble on. And then thankfully that game got rained out. I went back to bed at like 5:30 in the morning. And then my routine then on is I would go to sleep, I'd be in bed and I'd pull up my phone and I would check the weather forecast for the next day in Korea and I could pull it up and see I learned to read the weather forecast and the weather patterns coming out of the sea.

[Matt Jones]

So you were reading Korean weather. That's great. Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

Well, that's such a weird time. You know, everybody at espn, like so many people got fired. So I was on like a part time contract. Pretty much everyone got fired that was part time. What was weird though was Covid gave me my opportunity at ESPN because the skill set that I had, which was he doesn't know much about sports, but he can goof off, which was seen as a negative for my first two years, became a positive during COVID because I could fill all that airtime, right? So I've often said if Covid doesn't happen, ESPN probably doesn't renew my contract because I knew the least about sports of anyone at espn. I mean, I think that may still be true. Outside of a couple of knuckleheads that yell a lot, I probably know the least about sports of anyone that works at espn.

[Tom Hart]

But okay, why do you think, why do you think it works? Like, why do you think you're successful at it?

[Matt Jones]

That's a good. Well, okay, So I think it's two different issues. Locally, it works because I think people feel the passion I have for this state and the University of Kentucky, and it overrides the other things they might not, like my lack of knowledge, my liberalness. They're like, he is ultimately, even with all his faults, one of us. And I do think radio is an intimate medium where you can love someone even if you don't like part of it them. Right? Like, I always talk about Bill Simmons. He drives me crazy. But I also love listening to him. Even though I sometimes want to just throw him off a cliff. I also do love listening to him. Espn. It only works because I found Myron. If I had anyone else, it would have been over. Like, you know this. And I don't say this to be mean. Everyone takes himself so damn seriously at ESPN because it's their job. And like they've been like most of like people who played Tom, you know when people played, they can't laugh at themselves unless they were like not good. Right?

[Tom Hart]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

So like Dan Osky was great because he wasn't that great so you could laugh at himself. But the dudes that are good, you know this, they don't. They take themselves seriously. Right? Don't they?

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[Tom Hart]

You are going to be amazed at this parallel, but we had a college basketball seminar years ago. It was the it was the year the Cubs won the World Series, and your best friend Dan Dakotch was up late watching the Cubs. And I remember specifically we're all at the hotel bar in the Doubletree and they wanted in seven, right? And I think it must have been game seven. And he came in to watch the game and he thought he was going to be watching the game with a bunch of, like, baseball fanatics. Reality is, we might be college basketball announcers, but generally most people in the room are just casual baseball fans. He got mad. He told everybody, screw up. He bought a six pack, he went up to his hotel room. He was, I gotta watch my Cubs. I can't have these distractions. Fast forward to the next day. And he was a little foggy, but I'll never forget the message that he gave. We split up into these breakout groups and everyone's talking among themselves, play by play. Guys over here, analysts over there, reporters over there. And at some point, I wasn't at the table, but at some point he said exactly what you're saying. He said, you guys take yourselves too seriously.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I agree.

[Tom Hart]

This is about entertainment.

[Matt Jones]

Yes.

[Tom Hart]

We've got to entertain. We can't just talk ball screens off. And he kind of went. He called people out, maybe not by name, but certainly by, you know, eye contact. And there were some people in the room that got very uncomfortable. And it was. Dan didn't care how uncomfortable it was, but he delivered a message. And I think, I think it's what makes Herb street great at what he does. Like, he doesn't have to, and he's great regardless, but he doesn't have to be dialed into every analytical trend. But he can tell you how this backfield matches up with that backfield matches up with that back and talking generalities and entertain you and keep the, Keep the ball moving. And he's a fan, too. Let's go further. Goes a long way.

[Matt Jones]

Let's look at the greatest people to do this on the college side. Lee Corso, not a particularly good coach. Dick Vital, not a particularly good coach. Herb Street, B level quarterback. Right. These people that have been legends, they understood entertainment. Pat McAfee is a punter for West Virginia and then the Colts, but he understands entertainment. And I actually think there's an inverse relationship to being good at sports and being someone who's really entertaining, talking about them. There are people like Charles Barkley who were both, but I think in general, like, it's an inverse relationship. And I think what happened at ESPN and this is, this is good for me, even though I'm not a huge McAfee, like he doesn't speak to me. He has given me a chance there because now they're more open to things than they were before and pardon my take, having national success I think has opened that. And I think, Tom, you're just going to see more of that. So I would argue the way you call games and the way Iron calls games are going to be the way more and more people have to do it. Bill Rafter, he's calling the Final Four. I mean like he's, he's fun. Billy Packer would not make it nowadays, right? Like it wouldn't work.

[Tom Hart]

No, but John, but John Madden would.

[Matt Jones]

John Madden would. Al McGuire would. And John Madden's unique because he was great at everything. He was a great player, he's a great coach and he's a great announcer. That is like epically rare, right? But, but yes, John Madden wood, he might be the pioneer of that kind of stuff, right?

[Tom Hart]

And I think it's knowing your audience like Ian Eagle's the best. He, he is so good. He has an incredible sense of humor, his timing is impeccable. But he is a different announcer on college basketball or versus the Nets, which he does, you know, 90% of their games versus the NFL. And, and I've studied broadcasting for a long time. I've studied the guys who are great and I've said to the guys who I don't, I don't ever use the word emulate because you shouldn't copy somebody, but you can pick and choose, you know, copy aspects of what they do. And he and I talked about it one time and he said, listen, there is no fun to be had in the NFL. People don't want to hear fun that during. They want to hear down a distance and time remaining.

[Matt Jones]

That's probably right.

[Tom Hart]

J.J. watt has proven that you can have some personality, right? It's, it's tilting a little bit. But the games are so important in every single aspect matters. And that's why I love him on college basketball because he has this great enthusiasm and he can fun with it and can work in a couple of one liners like it's, that is what it's supposed to be is entertainment. Very rarely do you have a game where every single thing absolutely matters. Every single play, every inch. Like no, it's, we got two and a half hours to entertain people and get them away from whatever frustrations they have in their life. They just want to sit on the couch and enjoy this game.

[Matt Jones]

And when it comes to radio, people don't care if you know, anything or not. They really don't. I mean, they. They may think they do, but they really don't. As a matter of fact, I always tell Myron, who cares, right? Like. Like, at the end of the day, this is kids throwing a ball. This is kids throwing a ball around. Like, this is a distraction from life, and let's enjoy it, and let's try to make it fun for people. And I think that's. That's worked. Now, with that said, I want you to show the world, like, everybody always thinks I'm so confident. You got to see a different side of me, hear a different side of me. When I got assigned to do the bowl game in New Orleans, I've really never had this experience in my life. But just a couple days before I was supposed to leave for New Orleans, I realized that I was in over my head. I was like, I can't do this. I sat down to watch the college playoffs, the quarterfinals or whatever, sweet 16, whatever it was. And I was like, all right, let me see what I'm going to be doing here in a few days. And I go, oh, no. Like, I can't do this. Like, I started trying to call the game, and I was like, I can't. I can't do this. This is not my skill set. I can't remember these people's names. And I called you in a panic. I was like, who do I know? I was like, I'll call the Toms. I'll call Tom Hart, and I'll call Tom Leach. I called you, and then I didn't end up calling Tom Leach. Explain. Like, I'm driving around Louisville panicking about the fact that I'm going to have to do this. And then I called you, and you can take it from there.

[Tom Hart]

Well, I understand the panic, because I think a great motivator in life, especially as a performer, which is what you're doing in that moment is the fear of failure, Right? Or the fear to be, you know, exposed as fraudulent. Not that you really had to worry about it that much. Like, your bosses understood what role they're putting you in and how different it was. But you're gonna make mistakes the first time you do it. The only difference is you happen to be the first person in ESPN history. The first game you can. The first game you call is a national broadcast.

[Matt Jones]

I don't think that's ever happened before.

[Tom Hart]

No, man. I spent nine years calling minor league baseball.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Nine years. And they're like, hey, let's put Matt Jones on that ballgame. Yeah. National radio. Let's see how. Let's see how he handles it.

[Matt Jones]

I'd never even called a high school game ever. Like, ever. I'd never called anything. I hadn't called. I've never called anything. And then they said, and it's like when I was on the phone with you right before then I was like, it hit me, oh, no, this is a horrible idea. This is like when. When. This is like when Coppola put his daughter in Godfather 3 for her first acting moment and. But she'd never even been in a high school play. This is horrible.

[Tom Hart]

And in the end, was it really that bad?

[Matt Jones]

No, in the end, but I was scared to death and it was bad. It was bad at first, but I got my rhythm and then it was okay. Right.

[Tom Hart]

And. And I think. I think the. This. The simplest you can make a task, right. Is the easiest way to accomplish it. And. And I think my biggest piece of advice to you was, hey, just. Just talk about.

[Matt Jones]

You said, say what you see. That was four. This is partially what I wanted to thank you about. Those were four words. Say what you see sounds so basic. Sounds so obvious throughout the game. Tom, when I got. You know, when you're good at this, you feel. When it's not good. Okay, you can feel it. You can. That's the. The curse of being talented at something is, you know, when you're not good. If you're a world class singer, when you hit a bad note, you feel it. Whereas a lot of people are tone death and can't feel it. I knew when it wasn't great, and I would just, in my mind go, say what you see, and that's all you like. You would get me back on course.

[Tom Hart]

Well, I'm glad it was helpful because it's really hard for such an intricate job. There's so many things, by the way. Sidebar. But one of my favorite things to do is when I have friends visit me, say, at a football game, and there's room in the booth, the first thing I do is say, hey, you got to put on the spare headset. Oh, can I do that? Yeah, yeah, put the headset on them. And then they hear all of the voices. Yeah, we hear during the game, and they see the interaction with the stats guy and the spotter, and they. And their mind is blown. Right. It's. It's spinning plates. Right. They just think you're spinning one plate, and there's five others you got to worry about. So it can be hard. I am a horrible teacher because I think of all the minutiae, and I was like, okay, Matt doesn't need the minutia. He just needs the basics. Like, how do you. Where do you start? Where do you start calling a game? Yeah. Say what you see. This is the one example, by the way, where there's this great philosopher. I have his book somewhere around here.

[Matt Jones]

Philosophy. Wow.

[Tom Hart]

Oh, yeah. I've got many of them.

[Matt Jones]

Are you a philosophy guy? I don't think I knew that.

[Tom Hart]

Well, well, I'll use a line. I think you'll sound familiar. But this is the one area where it doesn't work. Which is anything works if you work hard at it. The harder you work.

[Matt Jones]

You set me up. You set me up. Oh, goodness.

[Tom Hart]

You thought I was going with talent?

[Matt Jones]

I thought you were seriously into philosophy. And you're Ryan Lemon. Good grief.

[Tom Hart]

The harder you try to work at play by play, if you don't know what you're doing, the worse off you're going to be. It's going to be unnatural. You're going to get tied up in knots. So just kind of let it go, man. I, I, I made so many. I still make a lot of mistakes, but I made so many mistakes when I first started out that my, I was lucky in that, you know, my first job was calling minor league baseball, and I could have a horrible game on Tuesday. And to your point, you hear it, you feel it. Once you get really good at it, you know it when you screw up. And once you get really good at it, you have this internal filter that keeps you from mispronouncing that name. Or I better get this right. Or you know what? I'm not even. I'm just gonna call him Bam. Because I did that.

[Matt Jones]

I had a guy for one of the. One of the names. I couldn't pronounce it. Oh, what. What's your quarterback's name? Billy for Western, the backup. Maverick. I could not remember. MacGyver. I kept wanting to call him because my grandfather used to. To say McGovern as mix, McGoverner and McShriver. And I couldn't remember what he was, and so I just kept calling him Maverick. And I was like. Because I don't want to screw up the name.

[Tom Hart]

So the beauty of it is, if you do it regularly, you can, you can sand down the imperfections. Can I. How family friendly is this broadcast? Can I share one of my biggest mistakes?

[Matt Jones]

Do whatever you want. We can, we can beep it if, if we put it on the. This part.

[Tom Hart]

It's not a bad word. But when you put two words together, then it can be bad. So. So be. Be ready for this one, Billy. I was calling minor league baseball, and it was my first night and it was a doubleheader in Charleston, South Carolina. And my boss at the time loved the restaurants in Charleston. He said, I'm going to come along and I'm going to call the first game with you, and then my wife and I are going to dinner and you have the second game.

[Matt Jones]

That's funny.

[Tom Hart]

Great. That's very professional. Sure, I'll do it. And Matt, I knew nothing. And I wasn't really a big baseball fan, like a huge college sports fan. Season tickets to Missouri football went to the basketball games. I like the Cardinals and Royals, but, you know, I wasn't Die Hard. Like I was the other stuff. And I realized on the bus ride that I didn't know baseball lingo. Like, I didn't know the language. So I had this Sony Walkman and I was listening to Chip Carey and Pete Van Wearing, Call of Brazil.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, my gosh. Chip Carey and Pete Van Weiren. Yes.

[Tom Hart]

Good guys to learn from. And I just remember particular at bat being impactful to me with Chipper Jones. Got jammed with a fastball and, you know, Skip said something like the. In on the hands, you know, whatever.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Then they called it a jam job or something like that. I was like, I wouldn't think about in on the hands. I wouldn't think about any of this stuff. I've got to work this in. And that night we, our team had this tall, rangy outfielder. I'm going to remember his name in a second. Oh, man, Johnson. His last name was Johnson, which probably added to it.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

And this is how my call went, Matt. Here's the 20 pitch. You hear the crack of the bat. And so what, what happened was the two oh pitch was here and it little flare out in right field. Right here's a 20 pitch and there's a little hand job out in the right field. And I started laughing. I mixed up in on the hands and jam job. I started laughing so hard I literally took my headset off. I walked out of the back of the booth.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, you had a Johnson hand job.

[Tom Hart]

I was bent over the railing laughing hysterically. And then I had this. Then this panic sent it and I went. I kind of said to myself, well, I guess that's my first and last game, you know, like, what's going to happen here? I guess you just kind of go on. And I walk back in one on one. Out. Here's Thompson. And I just pretended like it never happened. And for better, for worse, not a soul heard it.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

So you just move on.

[Matt Jones]

You just move on. So when they. When we did that game, it. The Louisville game ran late. So the Louisville game was going into ours. So you've probably done this. When you start the game, no one's listening. It's not over the radio because the other game's still on. But they still want you to call the game in case a big play happens for them to use on the highlights. All right? So it's weird. You're getting your Sam self amped up, and you're doing a game, but no one's going to hear it except the producers. And I'm working with the staff that doesn't know who I am. And that when we told them the day before we had never done a game, we're like, you've never done a game. Why are you here? Like, they all had a look of. Okay, so we start. And thank. Thank God the Louisville game ran late, because when we started, I was the worst person that's ever been called a game. I was stumbling over my words. I was awful. And I was in a panic because, weirdly, only talking to these four people made me nervous than. More nervous than if it had gone over the whole radio. So we hit our first break, and Tom, I look back over my head and look at the producers, and they don't. They couldn't hide it. I could see. They were like, oh, no, this is going to be awful. Like, I could tell. And I was like, sorry, I know that wasn't great. And they were, like, trying to reassure me. Oh, yeah. But I knew they were lying. I knew they were lying. And I was like, oh, my goodness. Then I got into a rhythm, and then by the end, they were giving me compliments that I knew were compliments, but at the beginning, you know, and one of the things my strategy is in life is just say. You just say you screwed up. Like, right there. I just knocked the microphone out of my hand, like. But I didn't feel like I could do that on espn. If I did it now, I'd just be like, yeah, what's that guy's name? You know, I actually think people appreciate that. That's what McAfee does. McAfee doesn't try to be something he's not. I think more announcers should do that, actually.

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[Jenna Kim Jones]

Not everything is terrible. I repeat, not everything is terrible. The ripple effect with Jenna Kim Jones is proof that the Internet, it hasn't ruined humanity entirely. Author and member of the church Dave Butler looked at what had happened and realized that there were other victims in this tragedy and did something completely unexpected. He set up a fundraiser for the family of the shooter who had left behind a wife and a child.

[Tom Hart]

I think what people recognized is that the 10 year old son of the shooter is also a victim. The widow is also a victim. So it is 9,500 people and a lot of them are giving $5, $10 $20.

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[Tom Hart]

No, I agree. I agree. It's. It's. And there's a difference between. And this is the most frustrating thing as. As a announcer, I think, is we're going to screw up stuff all the time. Butch Jones was coaching at Tennessee, and I accidentally called him Butch Davis.

[Matt Jones]

Okay.

[Tom Hart]

Right now, I had done more Tennessee football games under Butch Jones than anybody else. They'd done their spring game. It was like my fourth game of the year, and I start getting blasted for screwing up his name. Yeah, I screwed it up. I should have gotten it. Right. But sometimes your brain has this word association that just takes you certain places. Right. And I wanted to say, like, I have a relationship with this.

[Matt Jones]

Give me a break. Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Like, I know the man. Do you think I don't know his last name? You really think that? I think that that's somebody totally different down on the sideline. I was with him for three hours yesterday. But listen, either you get the grace or you don't. And. And you can roll with it or not. I always tell my partners, by the way, if I screw something up, please call me out on it. Yeah, that's the way to do it. Yeah. And. And you don't want a jerk being like, hey, dumbass, like, you got that one wrong. But if somebody would have said, if my. Nothing against my partner at the time, and this isn't the type that you would, like, jump on. But. But Butch Jones. What? Of course. But did I say Butch Davis? By the way, Butch Davis lost 73 to nothing today. You know, blah, blah, blah. It gives you a chance to play it off, and you look human, which we all are. And I think fans appreciate that. I. One of Jason Whitten's biggest complaints when he was in the Monday Night Football booth and he talked about this is he. He made a mistake one day. He's trying to say, you know, he's trying to use some idiom. And he totally screwed it up.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

And he said, nobody corrected me. If they would have corrected me, we would have had a big laugh about it. Instead, I didn't even know I screwed it up. I really look like an idiot. And we didn't look like we had any community.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, that's a great point, because you

[Tom Hart]

would correct your friends. Right.

[Matt Jones]

That's a really interesting way to look at it. All right. Before I let you go, let's do a couple Kentucky things. You've been calling Kentucky games Since what year? 20. How long?

[Tom Hart]

Probably 12.

[Matt Jones]

2012.

[Tom Hart]

Probably 2012.

[Matt Jones]

Best Kentucky player during that period of time in your mind, while they were at college.

[Tom Hart]

This is really hard for me because the while we're at college thing really makes it stand out. Like, it. I. I don't think I've seen somebody dominate like Oscar dominated. Right.

[Matt Jones]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Like, you leave the nation and rebounding, you're the player of the year, like that was. But nobody would pick him, perhaps because of the. The team struggles.

[Matt Jones]

You told that story about the plane on the show. You were the person who put the. He wouldn't get on the thing. Did you have to sit?

[Tom Hart]

That was a weird story to try to work into a broadcast, but I. I really wanted to find a way to share it.

[Matt Jones]

What was the ramification of you sharing that? Did anybody say anything? Because it would make a bibs a lot of news here.

[Tom Hart]

No, I. I knew. I had known about that story for months, and I found it so interesting. And I asked multiple times. I knew it was impactful, but I wanted to make sure I had all areas covered. And so I asked multiple people, hey, can I share this? Can I share this? And it was. The timing had to be right, and he had to be playing well, and the team had to be playing well because otherwise it looks like you, you know.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Kerosene on the fire. Yeah. And you're picking on everybody. But I thought it was a really a. It was a really unique story. Nobody else had it right. I mean, Oscar told me others corroborated it and talked about the mechanics of everything that happened, where he refused to get on the plane and because of this vision that he had had that the entire plane crashed and he was the only survivor. And I thought it was really interesting from a basketball perspective. Like, he felt like he was carrying the weight of the entire team, which was another part of it. So that was pretty impactful. And the. The 12 team. Tyler Ulis was on that 2012 team.

[Matt Jones]

No, no, 2012 was Anthony Davis. 2013. The next year, which would have been your first year, was neurlands, when Tyler US was 20. That was 2015.

[Tom Hart]

2015. Okay. So. And I didn't. I didn't do any good Kentucky games those early years. Right. And so the. The first, like, good Kentucky game I got was at South Carolina when Cal got tossed 38 seconds into the game.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Tom Hart]

Kenn, can you. One side of the court, Tyler Ulis ran, the other side of the court. And that was.

[Matt Jones]

Murray got an amazing dunk in that game. Murray got like the dunk of the year that game.

[Tom Hart]

I was, I was so appreciative of Tyler Euless as a player. And they get once again, like nobody would. He was player of the year in the league. Right. But nobody would say, oh, yeah, over the last, you know, 15 years of Kentucky basketball. Tyler Lewis and Oscar she. But, but those are the guys who, you know, resonated with me. And that's fan.

[Matt Jones]

Let me, let me finish you with this, with this question. You've been around Kentucky a lot this year and last year. Mark Pope, obviously, great guy, Mark Pope. Talk to me about what you see in your. You're at shoot around. You're, you're, you're around. Why do you think it feels like there's just been something a little bit off this year with everything. I mean, they've played, but they've played better recently. But that you were at the Georgia game. They lost. Like, why does it just feel a little weird this year, or do you not agree that it does?

[Tom Hart]

I agree that it does. And I think it's. It's real simple. And this isn't being hypercritical, anything that people don't already know, but it's roster construction with this team is. Is flawed and it becomes exposed when you have players that you count on be lost for the season. I mean, point guard play right now is a real issue for this team as. As big a leap playing the point is still not what you need to be a winning team. Ortega away is a good guy to lean on, but if you're not a 50, 40, 80 guy in terms of your offensive efficiency and you're taking a lot of shots, it's going to hurt. What impacted me the most when I first went to a markpot practice was how relentlessly positive he was. And contrasted especially to Cal. Yeah. Where every other word out of what. What, you know, and he's screaming at everybody the entire practice. That doesn't mean he doesn't pat him on the back sometimes. But totally different approach. Right. And Pope would stop practice and put his arm around a guy and say, man, I love that drop step. I love the way you did that. That's.

[Matt Jones]

Do that again.

[Tom Hart]

That is so good. And so I think all of us last year were just like, whoa, like, we got whiplash for how different the program was year one, you know, Cal to Pope. I don't know. I think one thing that adds to it is then when your team is Losing. And you need good cop, bad cop. Is that good cop, bad cop coming from two different people or is it the same person? And I don't think Mark Pope has a lot of bad cop in him. But, like, when he gets mad, we see him when he gets mad at the officials. But when he's not getting what he wants, how does he get it out of him? Like Caliperi would get it out of him just by brutal, brutal honesty. And I think that's. I think that's a little bit harder. I also think I'm just a bigger picture. And the drum tang criticism kind of reinforces with me. We get on staffs for having poor roster construction, and I think it's a fair criticism because they have general managers now, generally speaking, or the coach acts as one and they put together the roster. What's hard to understand is the time crunch that they face to put together these rosters. They're not recruiting these kids like they did in high school for four years at a time. But they don't get to know the family as well as they used to in depth to get to know where the red flags are with a particular kid or how to handle them. They don't know how to handle them sometimes midway through the season. Look at Kansas and Darren Peterson right now. And that's not to let these coaching staffs off the hook, but it's to understand this is way more complicated from a management perspective and managing people than it's ever been. Because you're all thrown into this like it's speed dating and that's hard to do.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, we. You and I could have a full conversation about that because it's a different set of skills that you now need. And so, like, you have to sit there and think, okay, well, who has those skills? Well, thank you very much for taking the time to do this. We will do this again at some point. And I hopefully, you know, you've hosted ksr, but you've actually never hosted it with me. I don't think so. Maybe, maybe this summer we'll try to do a day where it's like me and you, because we could. We could do this the whole time. Thank you and Tom Hart, appreciate it.

[Tom Hart]

Thanks for having me.

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