Episode 38 - News & Questions

Summary

Interrupted by Matt Jones

Episode 38 – News & Questions
Date: May 14, 2026
Host: Matt Jones
Co-host/Guest: Billy

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging episode, Matt Jones—joined by co-host Billy—dives into several pressing political and social issues dominating recent headlines. Framed as an open, accessible conversation (with Billy representing the “average voter” perspective), Matt addresses recent events in U.S. foreign policy, gerrymandering, upcoming elections, and listener questions, aiming to break down complex topics while inviting different viewpoints.

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Main Discussion Topics

1. The Iran War: Motivation, Outcome & Fallout

(Segment starts ~03:18, ends ~20:10)

• Background: Discussion opens with a critique of the Trump administration’s military actions against Iran. Both hosts examine the shifting rationales for the intervention—denuclearization, regime change, oil security, and more.

• Moving Goalposts: Matt and Billy highlight the confusion and inconsistency in reasoning for the war.

  “Every time he talks about it, he says a different objective. Was it to get rid of the nuclear material? ...Was it to disarm Iran? ...Was it to create regime change?” – Matt Jones (05:06)

• Economic Impact:

  • Both are frustrated by soaring gas prices:

    “To fill up my car is now over $100, which is kind of striking, you know, when you actually…” – Billy (06:33)

  • War’s tangible effect on Americans, especially fuel costs.

• Moral Case for Intervention:

  • Regime’s brutality, especially towards women and protestors, resonates with both hosts.
  • Skepticism:

    “How does this not become Iraq again?” – Billy (07:43)

• Decision-Making & Lobbying:

  • Trump’s war room reportedly split, with J.D. Vance allegedly opposed to bombing.
  • The role of Israel and Netanyahu in influencing U.S. action is debated.

    “We shouldn’t be getting into wars based on what other countries think, what Israel wants.” — Billy (09:21)

• Strategic Miscalculations:

  • Misjudged the Iranian public’s willingness to revolt.
  • Deadly collateral—tragic mistaken bombing of an orphanage:

    “We killed an orphanage full of young girls, 120 kids, I think, and we didn’t get to…” – Matt Jones (19:03)

  • The economic pain is deeper for Iran, but their population is more accepting of sacrifices.

    “They are a lot more willing to die for this stuff than we are.” – Matt Jones (15:12)

• Political Fallout & Exit Strategies:

  • Concern over the war’s endlessness and impact on upcoming elections.
  • Trust erosion toward Trump and the difficulty of salvaging the situation without America losing face.

• Memorable Moment:

  “Once again, in the Middle East, we bit off more than we can chew. When are we going to learn?” – Matt Jones (17:22)
  “No one takes over the Middle East and it works.” – Matt Jones (17:37)

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2. Gerrymandering and Democracy

(Segment starts ~20:10, ends ~38:34)

• Definition & Practice:

  • Billy explains basic gerrymandering (manipulating district lines).
  • Matt illustrates the tactic's impact using Kentucky and national examples, explaining “stacking and cracking.”

• Supreme Court Shift:

  • Recent Court ruling no longer allows race-based districting even to protect minority representation.

    “They’ve basically said no more considering race even to help.” – Matt Jones (23:42)

• Partisan Abuse:

  • Both parties gerrymander, but Republicans see greater national advantage now.
  • Texas sets precedent for mid-decade redistricting to aid Trump (“They just say, we want to help Trump.” – Matt Jones, 29:35).
  • Maryland and Virginia quickly follow suit—“race to the bottom.”

• Negative Consequences:

  • Fewer competitive districts—only 55 out of 435 are truly in play.

    “There are 435 members…in 2024…55 were considered competitive…The other 380 literally have no power at all.” – Matt Jones (27:02)

  • Creates extremism: safe-seat politicians only worry about their party’s primary, fueling polarization.

    “Be as liberal as possible or be as conservative as possible, because the only way you’re ever going to lose is if somebody in your party challenges you.” – Matt Jones (25:47)

• Technological Precision:

  • Modern gerrymandering now uses street-level or AI tools for precision.

• Practical Illustration:

  • Kentucky’s “ridiculous” District 1 boundaries designed for Rep. Jamie Comer’s residence (33:11).

• Economic Ramifications:

  • States with no competitive districts may receive less federal aid.

    “The moment we don’t have a Democrat district, the state will suffer.” – Matt Jones summarizing a South Carolina Senator (32:08)

• Big Picture:

  • Democrats tried “independent commissions,” but now face self-imposed disadvantages.
  • Prediction: only 10–15 competitive districts soon, with massive campaign spending and extreme partisanship.
  • Matt repeatedly calls gerrymandering “the worst thing for democracy.” (24:45, 24:57, 25:00, 30:51, 36:54)

• Quote:

  “We are making it to where…for the House of Representatives, only, like, 10 districts matter.” – Matt Jones (34:27)

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3. 2028 Presidential Prospects: Listener Q&A

(Segment starts ~38:34, ends ~45:54)

• Democratic Side:

  • Dismissal of Kamala Harris despite polling (“That would be a huge mistake. I hope they don’t do that.” – Matt Jones, 39:07)
  • Matt’s favorite: Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro (for winning swing states, especially Pennsylvania); Andy Beshear as another “pragmatic, popular” Democrat.
  • Criticism of Gavin Newsom: “He’s becoming more and more like Trump… All the things I don’t like about Trump, Newsom is the same, just on our side.” – Matt Jones (39:16)

• Republican Side:

  • J.D. Vance, Marco Rubio, RFK, and others mentioned.
  • Rubio seen as “least crazy” and potentially most electable:

    “He comes off as the least crazy person in a cabinet full of crazy people…” – Matt Jones (43:03)

  • Trump said publicly: “How many of you like JD Vance?... How many of you like Mark [Rubio]?” (41:47)

• Other Names & Reflections:

  • Billy: “I think entertainment is what captivated them in 20[16].” (44:25)
  • Andy Beshear described as “a little vanilla ice cream without sprinkles” but improving—“He’s gotten better. I think he’s gotten a lot better, actually.” (43:59)
  • Both wish for less “entertaining,” more substantive politics.

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4. Kentucky: Upcoming Senate & Congressional Races

(Segment starts ~45:59, ends ~54:32)

• Democratic Senate Race:

  • Charles Booker vs. Amy McGrath again.
  • Prediction: Booker favored this time due to increased support in Louisville.

• Republican Primary:

  • Andy Barr vs. Daniel Cameron.
  • Barr predicted to win (“Barr's going to win, I think. I think it'll be closer than people think, but he'll win.” – Billy, 50:58).
  • Criticism of Barr’s “It’s not a sin to be white” ads as “embarrassing” and shameful:

    “That was plain to the worst of people going, hey, I'm white and it ain't sin to be white… You’re too good for that.” – Matt Jones (49:03)

• Massie’s Race:

  • Thomas Massie—a rare anti-Trump Republican—expected to narrowly win thanks to strong local support and authenticity.
  • Praised for integrity even if ideologically opposed:

    “He stands up for what he believes in and he is true to his ideology.” – Billy (53:42) “You can’t expect everybody to agree with you, but you should be able to expect everybody to stand up for something and do what they say.” – Matt Jones (54:03)

• Observations:

  • Dismay about voters having little information about Congressional candidates, which can result in “yard sign” votes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On War & History:

  “No one takes over the Middle East and it works.” – Matt Jones (17:37)
  “Once again, in the Middle East, we bit off more than we can chew.” – Matt Jones (17:22)

• On Gerrymandering:

  “Gerrymandering is literally the worst thing in politics.” – Matt Jones (25:00)

• On Modern Politics:

  “He comes off as the least crazy person in a cabinet full of crazy people…” – Matt Jones (43:03)
  “[Beshear is] a little vanilla ice cream without sprinkles take. But he's gotten better.” – Billy (43:54)

• On Campaign Ads:

  “That was plain to the worst of people… You’re too good for that.” – Matt Jones on Barr’s ad (49:03)

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Timestamps by Segment

| Time | Topic/Highlight | |-------------|---------------------------------------------------| | 03:18–20:10 | Iran war: rationales, mistakes, impacts | | 20:10–38:34 | Gerrymandering: mechanics, effects, Kentucky map | | 38:34–45:54 | 2028 presidential forecast & party futures | | 45:59–54:32 | Kentucky elections: Senate, Massie, local politics|

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Tone & Takeaways

• The conversation is candid, at times humorous, and filled with real-world analogies and personal reflections.
• Matt leans into accessible language, often breaking down dense political topics into digestible arguments.
• The episode is shaped by skepticism of political extremism and a desire for institutional reform—especially regarding U.S. foreign policy and election fairness.
• Both hosts value authenticity in politics and are wary of the entertainment-driven, hyper-polarized climate.

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For Listeners

If you missed this episode, you’ll come away with sharp insights and pointed skepticism about U.S. foreign policy, the hidden dangers of gerrymandering, shifting party dynamics, and a preview of Kentucky’s vital races. Matt and Billy keep the tone light yet urgent, making challenging topics feel approachable without losing analytical depth.

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End of summary.

Transcript

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[Matt Jones]

This is Interrupted by Matt Jones on Newsradio840. Now here's Matt Jones. Welcome to episode 38 of Interrupted by Matt Jones.

[Billy]

It is a beautiful day here in

[Matt Jones]

Lexington, Kentucky, and I thought for this episode we'd kind of check in with what's going on in the world. You know, on my regular KSR show, I try not to give opinions too

[Billy]

much about specific issues because it gets derailed and people get mad and they,

[Matt Jones]

and you also just don't have time

[Billy]

to go into detail.

[Matt Jones]

So I thought I would do that. And I have five sort of issues,

[Billy]

things that have kind of come up in the last few months that I thought would be good to discuss.

[Matt Jones]

And you know, we're going to do this in the spirit of open conversation and if you disagree, that's okay. I'm glad to hear your other opinion

[Billy]

if you do it in a nice way. 772-7745254. That's our text machine. 772-774-5254. Billy is with me. And Billy is going to just, you

[Matt Jones]

know, maybe give some of his thoughts or ask questions. Because Billy, you said, you know, you

[Billy]

follow the news a little bit, but you don't go into great detail. Am I right?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

That's right. Yep. Great to be with you today.

[Matt Jones]

But now people sometimes get mad when we do this.

[Billy]

They go, you know, how does Billy not know this or that? I'm going to defend you on this

[Matt Jones]

because I think you are kind of

[Billy]

like the average voter or average, the

[Matt Jones]

kind of person that listens to political news or political podcasts. Their strong opinions may be very Informed. I think you represent what the vast majority of people are, which is you kind of know what's going on, but

[Billy]

you don't follow it in detail. Is that fair?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah, I'm very average. Good way to.

[Matt Jones]

Well, I'm not saying you're average. I think you're above average intelligence. But you just, you know.

[Billy]

You like sports, right? Golf?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

What do you like.

[Billy]

What do you do when you're done? Like, what do you.

[Matt Jones]

What do you like to read, look at, watch?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I do a lot of golfing. That's my. Probably my biggest hobby.

[Billy]

That's a rich man's hobby.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah, a lot of sports. A lot of live tv. I don't watch live tv.

[Matt Jones]

What are we watching live tv?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Well, we talked about Storage wars the last time we did a show together. Kind of that. Like trash.

[Matt Jones]

Still doing that. Still doing Storage Wars.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I gotta be an auctioneer, so I gotta.

[Billy]

Okay, well, good.

[Matt Jones]

All right. So I thought we'd go through five things.

[Billy]

Let's just get started. Number one, Iran.

[Matt Jones]

So if you remember, Donald Trump bombed

[Billy]

Iran and said, billy, we would be done in two weeks.

[Matt Jones]

One of the interesting things, if you

[Billy]

watch Trump, everything's always two weeks.

[Matt Jones]

No, I mean, pay attention sometime. And look how many times he says

[Billy]

something will be over in two weeks. Two weeks, I think, is the magical amount for him.

[Matt Jones]

Where he thinks it's not immediately, it's in the future. It doesn't seem like a long time, but I don't have to deal with it today.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Kicking the can down the road.

[Billy]

Two weeks.

[Matt Jones]

And now we are seven or eight weeks in.

[Billy]

Gas prices have exploded to probably the second highest they've ever been absent that time right after Covid.

[Matt Jones]

And it doesn't look like there's much

[Billy]

of an ending inside.

[Matt Jones]

And as a matter of fact, this

[Billy]

week, a writer for the Atlantic wrote and said Donald Trump has kind of checkmated himself on Iran, that there's really no way for America to win this. Absent getting into a war like a real war that we don't want to do, with boots on the ground, et cetera.

[Matt Jones]

And I think it's fair to say.

[Billy]

I mean, again, as an average voter, I'd be interested in what you think.

[Matt Jones]

I think it's fair to say this

[Billy]

has kind of been a total failure in the sense of a. I'm not sure what the objective was, because every time he talks about it, he says a different objective. Was it to get rid of the nuclear material? Well, we haven't done that.

[Matt Jones]

Was it to disarm Iran?

[Billy]

Well, Some recent reports say they may have lost only, like, 10% of their missile capacities. Trump will say 97. But there's some stuff to suggest that may not be the case.

[Matt Jones]

And then, was it to create regime change?

[Billy]

That didn't really happen either.

[Matt Jones]

And the really, the one biggest legacy

[Billy]

is Iran has taken over what was the Strait of Hormuz, which at one point was open and ships could go

[Matt Jones]

in and out freely.

[Billy]

And they've basically taken it over and said they control it, and they've essentially shut it down. The only boats they let through are ones that they decide presumably have paid them off to let them through.

[Matt Jones]

So, just as you know, what do you think?

[Billy]

Have you watching this? Do you think this was a good decision in hindsight?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Well, initially, you hit the nail on the head for me about why did we get into this war? Because I've heard all three or even four of those reasons as a reason why they did it, but I'm not sure exactly what that reason.

[Matt Jones]

He said them all at some point.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah. So. And what impacts me the most is gas prices. So the gas prices are crazy, and it's unbelievable. I mean, I've got to think about going to Louisville a little differently if here in Lexington, just because.

[Matt Jones]

Do you do that? Do you, like, sit and think? Like, I can understand that.

[Billy]

I mean, I.

[Matt Jones]

To fill up my car, I have

[Billy]

to use premium, and it's now over $5, almost 550.

[Matt Jones]

And so to fill up my car

[Billy]

is now over $100, which is kind of striking, you know, when you actually, like.

[Matt Jones]

Because it was like, for the cheapest gallons of gas, they were like $2.40 six months ago, five months ago. And now it's, I think, in Lexington, 430 now. That's a huge rise quickly.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

And I was on board about regime change. That seemed to strike a chord for me, at least.

[Matt Jones]

Why?

[Billy]

Why was that?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Just because the things that that regime was doing was. Were things that I found unacceptable.

[Billy]

Like which of the things?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Like the treatment of women.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, so you're the way they treated their own country, correct? Yeah, I think that's fair to say.

[Billy]

I mean, the ayatollah and that regime, not just women, I mean, they, by some estimates, killed 10,000 of their own citizens in protest. You know, there were protests like a year ago, and they basically turned the Internet off, so it's hard to even know what happened. But most estimates, I think I saw the UN and said 10,000 people killed, which is just horrendous. So I have no love loss for the regime.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

So I was, I was all on board about that. But what is the exit strategy? How does this end? How does this not become Iraq again? This war that just prolongs goes on and on and on. And people have harsh feelings about.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, so there's like a few ways

[Billy]

to look at this. One is how did we get into it?

[Matt Jones]

The New York Times had a huge

[Billy]

story about the decision to do it.

[Matt Jones]

Now I take these things with a

[Billy]

little bit of a grain of salt. Cause they're not in the room. Right.

[Matt Jones]

But I did notice that with the

[Billy]

exception of Trump, who I don't believe one word he says ever. So like there's nothing he can say that changes my mind on anything. He's lost that trust with me long ago.

[Matt Jones]

But I've noticed that the other people

[Billy]

involved have not disagreed with this story,

[Matt Jones]

which makes me think there is some

[Billy]

sense of truth in this story, that

[Matt Jones]

they were in a room full of

[Billy]

people, the Trump war room, essentially trying to decide whether or not to start this.

[Matt Jones]

And there were people for it, including

[Billy]

Marco Rubio, Pete Hegseth and a couple of other people.

[Matt Jones]

And then there were people against it.

[Billy]

J.D. vance being the primary one and some of the generals going, we can do what you want here, but is this a good idea?

[Matt Jones]

J.D. vance?

[Billy]

Now that story could have been leaked from J.D. vance to make him look good. We don't really know. Right. But let's just assume that's true. The assumption a lot of people have is that Israel kind of was the country that pushed them to do it. If that's true, does that bother you?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

A little bit. We shouldn't be getting into wars based on what other countries think, what Israel wants. Right. So that's what I've heard as well is Netanyahu was the one that kind of pushed America into this war for his own reasons. Not for the good of us, but. But for the good of Israel.

[Matt Jones]

Yes, because they feel like they are

[Billy]

always potentially under attack there, which may actually be true, I don't know.

[Matt Jones]

But so the question becomes, okay, if they decide to do it, what are

[Billy]

they trying to do?

[Matt Jones]

I mean, I think here are the

[Billy]

various goals, whether or not I think they.

[Matt Jones]

I think making sure Iran cannot get

[Billy]

a nuclear weapon is a valuable goal.

[Matt Jones]

And I actually think that would be

[Billy]

a goal that would be worth some measure of strikes. Right.

[Matt Jones]

The problem is we were told a

[Billy]

year ago that they had done bombings that got rid of that, saw the

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

camera or the video of it when it happened.

[Matt Jones]

And that clearly was untrue. Cuz they Couldn't have rebuilt their ability

[Billy]

to have a nuclear weapon in a year.

[Matt Jones]

Obama had a deal in place to

[Billy]

keep them from doing it, and Trump ripped it up.

[Matt Jones]

And, you know, I think I saw

[Billy]

it had gotten rid of 97% of Iranian nuclear capacity. He ripped it up. As I understand it, and I'm by no means an expert, the uranium that they can use for nuclear weapons is underground.

[Matt Jones]

And you can't simply, like, bomb it out of there.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

You would literally have to go and get it. Yeah. And you can't do that without boots on the ground. And I don't think anybody, myself included,

[Billy]

wants boots on the ground.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

You think that's the next step?

[Matt Jones]

I mean, I just don't think America will stand for it. Even Trump's own party, I mean, there are people that want it. Lindsey Graham, I think, wants that.

[Billy]

Maybe Marco Rubio, I don't know. But, like, I don't think the average American want.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, no war in the Middle

[Billy]

east where we've put boots on the ground has worked.

[Matt Jones]

No, none of them. Because that's not what we're built for.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

And people are going to die.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Do you still think that America should be, like, the protector of democracy and this police of the world?

[Billy]

It's a great question.

[Matt Jones]

I don't think they can do it alone.

[Billy]

I think there are things that America and the United nations can do.

[Matt Jones]

I do think, you know, if you

[Billy]

find out that a country like Somalia is killing their own people, you can go in and try to take out that regime.

[Matt Jones]

But there's also a react like a real part of this, which is Putin's awful, but we don't try to take him over.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

You know, there are some things you just can't do. You can be a police force, but,

[Billy]

like, you can't police everybody.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

Because some people are too strong.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

They punch back.

[Matt Jones]

And I think what we've realized with Iran is we've continuously underestimated how strong they are. They can't beat us in a war, but they can put us in a war where we have to make losses

[Billy]

that we don't want.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Billy]

You know what I mean?

[Matt Jones]

And I think that's what we've done here. Then the second thing is the oil part. So, as I understand it, I'm going

[Billy]

to give Donald Trump, like, the best possible motives, which I don't believe he

[Matt Jones]

has, but I think it's a good, like, thought exercise to think about. Like, what's the smartest person with Trump's opinion? What would they argue they thought if they bombed the leadership, if they got rid of the ayatollah and his family, that because there was so much discontent

[Billy]

with Iran, with the leadership in Iran,

[Matt Jones]

the people would rise up and create a revolution.

[Billy]

That's what they hoped.

[Matt Jones]

And then they saw this thing, this meeting where all the leadership of Iran

[Billy]

was in one place. And as I understand it, the decision

[Matt Jones]

was, here we go, we can kill

[Billy]

70 of them at once, and the country will now have no leadership and the people will rise up.

[Matt Jones]

I think that's what they thought was going to happen. Well, they bomb it.

[Billy]

They kill all of those people.

[Matt Jones]

But a lot of the people that they killed, there were people who could have been the people to take over. They essentially killed all the underlings.

[Billy]

And then the people didn't rise up.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Didn't work.

[Billy]

It didn't work.

[Matt Jones]

And so the same people took over. And as I understand it, some of whom were even harsher than the ones they blew up.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Oh, that was not the goal. How did they not see that, though?

[Matt Jones]

Like, how is that not great question? I don't know enough to. Somebody looked at that and said, there's, like, you know, because we've done that

[Billy]

in our history before, we've taken out a leader thinking that the people will then take over. And sometimes it's worked. And then in this case, it didn't.

[Matt Jones]

So that was mistake one. We took out. All these people, including potential Democratic reformers,

[Billy]

got taken out, too. And then the oil situation, it sounds

[Matt Jones]

like if you read the reporting on it, they just never thought that Iran

[Billy]

would cut off the oil supply because

[Matt Jones]

so much of the Iranian economy is from oil. They're like, they'll never do that.

[Billy]

They're essentially starving themselves. But then they did.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Could all this be about oil? I mean, with all the world's oil or a lot of it going through the Strait of Hormuz? I mean, we.

[Billy]

I think it's. It's all about.

[Matt Jones]

I think what we underestimate every time

[Billy]

we go to the Middle east is

[Matt Jones]

how much those people.

[Billy]

I don't know how to say this exactly.

[Matt Jones]

In some ways, they're a lot more

[Billy]

willing to die for this stuff than we are.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Okay. Could see that.

[Billy]

You know what I mean?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

It's their home, too.

[Matt Jones]

It's their home. And they also have a religious viewpoint

[Billy]

about martyrdom and things.

[Matt Jones]

I just don't know that, like Westerners, we are inconvenienced and angry about the price of gas. A lot of those folks are willing

[Billy]

to sacrifice for the thing.

[Matt Jones]

So, like, I just feel like they're willing to go more to the mat than we are. So their economy is getting tortured right now, like they, they, they are. From an economic perspective, this war is

[Billy]

hitting them much harder than it's hitting

[Matt Jones]

us, but I think they're much more willing to deal with it. Whereas we're upset if our iPhone doesn't work, but do you know what I mean by that?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

But I'd also understand if the war was on our soil, you know, there would be some concessions made. I'd be into it just like they are.

[Matt Jones]

Yes,

[Billy]

I agree, but they are like that. And so they are much more willing to handle it.

[Matt Jones]

And so now how high does the gas price have to get before the

[Billy]

American people say get out?

[Matt Jones]

If it gets to $6 a gallon.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah.

[Billy]

Then what happens?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Well, he can't run again. So, I mean, there's.

[Matt Jones]

But the other people in the party, J.D.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

vance, gonna be running.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, remember they just did a

[Billy]

vote about giving Trump the power to continue this in the Senate. And I don't know if you saw it only passed by one vote.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

It did pass.

[Billy]

Yes. But three Republicans voted against it.

[Matt Jones]

And the only reason it passed is

[Billy]

that John Fetterman voted for it. The Democrat.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

Otherwise it would not have passed. You gotta think, as the longer it

[Billy]

goes, there are gonna be more and

[Matt Jones]

more Republicans defect because they all have

[Billy]

to run for election here in a few months. Yeah, he doesn't, but they do.

[Matt Jones]

So I think it's awful. You know, it's tough because I'm not like, I don't think I understand the

[Billy]

desire to get rid of the nuclear capability, but once again, in the Middle east, we bit off more than we can chew. When are we going to learn?

[Matt Jones]

I mean, this goes back to Napoleon. What?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

In the Middle east area?

[Matt Jones]

No one takes over the Middle east and it works. Yeah, I mean, the Russians in Afghanistan found their. That demise. You know, we learned in Iraq, we learned in Afghanistan.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Well, it goes back to that moral superiority. And you.

[Matt Jones]

I think we just. I think we think that, like. And we never learn the lesson. We never learn this lesson. And it happens over and over and over, and yet we never learn it.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Cal would say, you win or you learn. And we haven't been learning about this.

[Matt Jones]

We never learn about this. And then you throw in. Now Trump knows he's gotta end it, but he doesn't know how to do

[Billy]

it and save face.

[Matt Jones]

And the problem is, if you were to end it today, Iran is going to. They've realized their only leverage now is

[Billy]

the Strait of Hormuz.

[Matt Jones]

So they're not going to give that up.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Why would they?

[Matt Jones]

Why would they? And what's.

[Billy]

So you can make a strong argument, Billy. This is what I think is ultimately true. You can make a strong argument that not only did we not fix the problems, we might have made it worse.

[Matt Jones]

We actually, we.

[Billy]

We literally may have made it worse

[Matt Jones]

because now we have more fundamentalist people in charge

[Billy]

and we've closed the oil.

[Matt Jones]

And we've also. I mean, we can't skip over. We killed an orphanage full of young

[Billy]

girls, 120 kids, I think, and we didn't get to.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, it was a mistake. I don't think anybody did on purpose,

[Billy]

but it still happened. Those are still human beings.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Mm.

[Billy]

You know, and we didn't.

[Matt Jones]

It doesn't sound like we even got rid of the nuclear. So what did we accomplish?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

And so how much longer does this war last?

[Billy]

You know, I don't know.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

You think it's a long draw thing?

[Matt Jones]

I think they're just going to. I think right now they're just going

[Billy]

to have to give up.

[Matt Jones]

And the question is, how bad are

[Billy]

we going to look and give it up?

[Matt Jones]

That's the point of the Atlantic article that they wrote, was essentially Iran.

[Billy]

Now, they're not going to lose.

[Matt Jones]

So the question is, how does this end?

[Billy]

And we've put China closer with Iran. We've put Russia closer with Iran. That's why Trump, by the way, right now is in China.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah, right now.

[Matt Jones]

Right now, as we speak, he is in China. Because they got to find a way

[Billy]

to get out of this and not lose face. And we'll see what happens. All right, next one, let's do. Have you been following, Billy, the gerrymandering?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Kind of like, I know about it. I don't know many specifics. I knew the Louisiana stuff. Tennessee.

[Billy]

Do you know what gerrymandering is?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

It's like the moving of congressional lines.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Billy]

So this comes from. I think it was some guy who. Congressman, like in the early 1900s called something Jerry, and he learned that, like, if you draw the lines correctly, you can completely change how many congressmen you win in each state.

[Matt Jones]

Right.

[Billy]

So you.

[Matt Jones]

You could take a state that's like

[Billy]

40% Democrat or 40% Republican and has nine congressional seats. And if you draw the districts right,

[Matt Jones]

you can make it to where you win all nine or you win eight, because people tend to live with people

[Billy]

of the same political ideology.

[Matt Jones]

So you can draw it to where. I mean, let's take Kentucky. Most of the Democrats in Kentucky are

[Billy]

in Lexington or Louisville. Not all, but most.

[Matt Jones]

So the way they used to do it is they'd go, Louisville gets a congressional seat. Lexington in the surrounding area gets a

[Billy]

seat, and then we divide the rest of state.

[Matt Jones]

A gerrymander would be, let's take little part. Let's divide Louisville into three different zones, and there'll be just enough Democrats in

[Billy]

each one that it's not enough to beat the Republican. Does that make sense?

[Matt Jones]

So you. You spread them apart. The other thing you can do is you can say, okay, most of the Democrats are in, say, Atlanta, Georgia. Let's just make one seat that's all Democrats. They get one, and then we'll take

[Billy]

all the rest of them.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Okay. Confided into that.

[Matt Jones]

Confided. And I think it's called like, I think stacking and cracking or something.

[Billy]

Each of them have a different term.

[Matt Jones]

So they've been doing this for a long, long time. Then along came the Voting Rights Act. And the Voting Rights act basically looked at the south and said, okay, if you keep doing this, black people are

[Billy]

not going to be able to have any representatives.

[Matt Jones]

So they create a law that said if you use race to either split people up or pack them together like that, if the goal is to limit

[Billy]

black representation, then that's illegal.

[Matt Jones]

And since so many black people vote Democrat. But it became, you can't really do that to Democrats there specifically, because if you do, you're essentially doing it to black people.

[Billy]

Because in the Deep south, almost all the Democrats are black. Does that make sense?

[Matt Jones]

So Virginia, Georgia, Louisiana, South Carolina, they've been under a court order for many, many years that they essentially couldn't gerrymander because they had a history of discriminating

[Billy]

against black people in congressional districts.

[Matt Jones]

Well, the Supreme Court this year overturned

[Billy]

that part and said essentially they've basically said no more considering race even to help.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Okay?

[Matt Jones]

Not only can you not consider race to harm, you can't consider it to help.

[Billy]

Now we can talk about whether that's correct or not. I would argue it's not, but it's

[Matt Jones]

not a ridiculous theory.

[Billy]

Okay?

[Matt Jones]

So now all of a sudden, the south can be gerrymandered too. So there were these handful of districts

[Billy]

that were predominantly for black representatives, and

[Matt Jones]

they are now states are considering taking

[Billy]

them away and gerrymandering them out.

[Matt Jones]

So they're. They. So Tennessee took the city of Memphis

[Billy]

and divided it in the three.

[Matt Jones]

It used to have one seat that

[Billy]

was theirs, and they've divided it now to where there is no Memphis seat. They're split amongst three different groups. It's pretty blatantly discriminatory in my mind, but they're able to do it, and they did it. I think, Billy, gerrymandering is the worst thing for democracy in America.

[Matt Jones]

Across the country, it's the worst when Republicans do it, but it's also the

[Billy]

worst when Democrats do it.

[Matt Jones]

It literally is the reason we have

[Billy]

such polarization in this country.

[Matt Jones]

I think it is. Honestly, I'll go so far as to say I think gerrymandering is literally the

[Billy]

worst thing in politics.

[Matt Jones]

The worst, number one. And I'll tell you why. When you live in a gerrymandered district, you have no incentive to be bipartisan. None. You have no incentive. As a matter of fact, if you live in a district that's all Republican or all Democrat, you know you're never

[Billy]

going to lose to the other side.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

You know you're never. If you're in a plus 30 Trump district or a plus 30 Biden district, you're never going to lose. So what's your only incentive? Not losing a primary. And how do you keep yourself from

[Billy]

losing in a primary? Be as extreme as you can.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Oh, be like, as liberal as possible.

[Matt Jones]

Be as liberal as possible or be as conservative as possible, because the only way you're ever going to lose is if somebody in your party challenges you. That's the only way you'll ever lose. So think about Thomas Massie here in Kentucky. He's in a district that is very Republican.

[Billy]

It's not as Republican as it used

[Matt Jones]

to be, but it's very Republican. He's not gonna lose in a general election. So the only way he can lose is if he loses in a primary. Which means when he wants to morally stand up against Trump, he has to consider it might cost him his job.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

That's why Trump has backed his opponent.

[Matt Jones]

Trump has backed his opponent. And so if Massie loses, it will only be because he wasn't conservative enough. And Massie has no incentive to reach out to the 40% of his district that's Democrat because he can't lose unless

[Billy]

he loses in a primary.

[Matt Jones]

And that's true, by the way, for Democrats, too. So there are 435 members of the House. Do you know how many of them in 2024 were in races that were considered competitive, meaning either side could win?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Not a lot. It's probably going to shock me how little it is.

[Matt Jones]

380 were not. So there were 55 races. Basically, there are 55 districts in America that decide who's going to be in charge of Congress. The other 380 literally have no power at all.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

They're either so red or blue. It's a.

[Matt Jones]

If your side wins, you have power, but if your side doesn't. Sorry.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

So. And this has gone back years. Honestly, the most powerful districts in the country are the ones that have competitive races, because if you're a Democrat or Republican, you want to protect your congressman. So for a while, Lexington was one of those.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Really? I didn't know that.

[Matt Jones]

Lexington used to be one of those 55. And then the Kentucky legislature redistricted it, and now it's a safe Republican seat

[Billy]

because they basically have Lex just.

[Matt Jones]

They basically kicked out Frankfurt. So Frankfurt used to be part of this. They kicked them out, put them in a district that's all Republican. And so now that's why Andy Barr kept his seat. But back when it used to go back and forth, the government would give Lexington area a lot of stuff to protect whether or not there was a

[Billy]

Republican or Democrat in office.

[Matt Jones]

So now what they're doing is they can. With AI.

[Billy]

They can gerrymander.

[Matt Jones]

They can gerrymander to perfection.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

By the household?

[Matt Jones]

No, by the street. They literally do. In some states, they do it by the street. And by doing that, they can create. Like in California, there are 56.

[Billy]

56 districts.

[Matt Jones]

I have read that they would. They. That if the California Democrats wanted to push it to the extreme, they could gerrymander it where it was like, 515 Democrat.

[Billy]

Wow.

[Matt Jones]

That's how good they could do it. I think now it's just like 48

[Billy]

or 47 and whatever.

[Matt Jones]

But they could make it even better

[Billy]

if they wanted to.

[Matt Jones]

And what's happened is Texas decided, so they used to always gerrymander every decade when the census came out, but Texas decided this year because Trump's worried about losing the House. Let's do it mid decade.

[Billy]

Nobody's ever done that before.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

How do they justify doing something like that?

[Matt Jones]

They don't even try.

[Billy]

They just say, we want to help Trump.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Wow.

[Billy]

That's. No, that's what they've said. I mean, they.

[Matt Jones]

To be fair, they don't even try

[Billy]

to justify it, like, you know, with some sort of logical reasoning. It's just like, we want to help Trump.

[Matt Jones]

And they changed it to where now

[Billy]

there are four more Trump districts. Well, when that happened, Maryland and Virginia were like, all right, well, you're gonna do that now? We're gonna do it.

[Matt Jones]

And there's a race to the bottom. Okay, There's a race to the bottom because now every state has an Incentive to gerrymander as much as they can. Republicans are better at it because Democrats for a while had the. They. They were trying to have independent commissions

[Billy]

in states, which, by the way, is

[Matt Jones]

what every state should have, but really

[Billy]

it was mostly only Democrat states that passed it. So they cut their knees out from themselves. So, like, New York has one of those. There's a handful of states that have them. Well, they're all going to get taken away.

[Matt Jones]

And I think we're headed, Billy, in a few years to where there's going to. There's only going to be, like, 15

[Billy]

competitive districts in the country.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

That doesn't seem right.

[Matt Jones]

It's not right. It's the worst. It is the worst development for democracy. Like, it's helping Trump right now, but one day it won't and it shouldn't. Like, what. What people don't realize is they're only hurting themselves. So let me tell you about the

[Billy]

debate in South Carolina.

[Matt Jones]

There are eight Republican districts in South

[Billy]

Carolina, one Democrat, James Clyburn. They created basically a predominantly black district. When the Supreme Court decision came,

[Matt Jones]

South Carolina's Republican leaders were like, all right, let's make it nine.

[Billy]

Oh.

[Matt Jones]

Won't be hard.

[Billy]

Let's make it nine. Oh.

[Matt Jones]

And the leader of the Senate, who's a Republican, got up and said, no, because when a Democrat's president, South Carolina gets stuff sometimes because we have one Democrat district, and they mention all of this stuff over the years that has been given to South Carolina. He was like, the moment we don't have a Democrat district, the state of South Carolina will suffer. And that is actually exactly right, because if you get to a point where a president, let's say the Democrats elect

[Billy]

a president that is as partisan as

[Matt Jones]

Trump, and by that I mean only

[Billy]

wants to help the states that voted for him.

[Matt Jones]

You're hurting yourself.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yes. I just don't see the reason why you're able to do it.

[Matt Jones]

You shouldn't be able to.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

It's like people want to stay in power. So they, they redistrict these.

[Matt Jones]

Of course, Jamie, we redistricted Kentucky so that Jamie Comer could live in Frankfurt.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

That's.

[Matt Jones]

Pull. Pull up the. Pull up for yourself the Kentucky congressional map and go look at District one. I want you to look at District one right now.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

All right, look.

[Matt Jones]

Look at, look at District one.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Okay?

[Matt Jones]

It goes from the far western tip circles down by the bottom of the state, and then crawls all the way up to. What's that top county? Franklin to Franklin County. Look at that.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

It's Egregious it's ridiculous. I just don't know how you did that.

[Matt Jones]

For two reasons. One, to move Franklin county away from Lexington because the third most Democrats in

[Billy]

the state live in Franklin County. So they wanted to split Lexington and Franklin.

[Matt Jones]

But two, Jamie Comer, that's his district and there's a rule you have to live in your district. He wanted to move from Monroe county to Frankfurt. You think I'm kidding?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah, I'm looking at it.

[Matt Jones]

This is true. So by doing that, he could move from Monroe county to Frankfurt. So that district is ridiculous looking. But by the way, all across the

[Billy]

country there are other ones like this.

[Matt Jones]

Illinois, the most egregious one for Democrats is in Illinois. Illinois, if you look at theirs, it's got the same stuff. Ohio has got a terrible one for Republicans. The new California one is going to be like that for Democrats. And the thing is, everybody's thinking about this in the short term of trying

[Billy]

to win the 2026 elections.

[Matt Jones]

But long term, we are making it to where the entire. You know how in the presidential race, only five states matter?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

We're about to make it where for the House of representatives, only, like 10 districts matter.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

To see who has the majority.

[Matt Jones]

To see who has the majority. And you're gonna end up with these districts where like, imagine if in the

[Billy]

Lexington Congressional district

[Matt Jones]

people spent $100 million on ads. That's what's gonna happen.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Because they have to win those districts.

[Matt Jones]

Cause they have to win those districts.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Well, they're making decisions not based on logic, it's just based on, oh, we wanna help Trump or we want to help Democrats. Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

So look at the Kentucky one. All right, so the one in eastern Kentucky has always made sense to me.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

It's all kind of.

[Matt Jones]

It's all kind of together. It's eastern Kentucky. Right. Like they have sort. But look on the. In the top of the eastern Kentucky, you see how that one county is split? Some of it's blue and some of it's green.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah. What does that say? Carter?

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, that's Carter County.

[Billy]

No, no, no, down. Scoot your thing over right there. To the left.

[Matt Jones]

To the left.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Okay.

[Matt Jones]

Right there. Yeah, yeah. What county's that?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Bath County.

[Matt Jones]

Bath county is split into two different districts.

[Billy]

Why?

[Matt Jones]

Why? What is it about Bath county that it needs to be split in half?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Well, that one side's too valuable to the middle of Kentucky. And then the one right now that

[Matt Jones]

go to between the, the, the Lexington district and the yellow district, what's that

[Billy]

county split in half right there?

[Matt Jones]

Anderson, Anderson is split in half. What is it about Anderson county that makes it need to be split in half?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

It doesn't seem logical.

[Matt Jones]

All right, now I want you to look at Jefferson County. Jefferson county, is it home? But you see how the edge of Jefferson's in a different one. Well, guess who lives there. That's where all the rich white Republicans live in Louisville.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

So they want their.

[Matt Jones]

They want to be with people. They want to be with Brett Guthrie because they agree with him more. Now, if Kentucky wants to really get rid of all Democrats, they'll just take

[Billy]

Jefferson county and split it in half.

[Matt Jones]

And if they do that, then we'll

[Billy]

have six Republicans instead of five and one.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Oh.

[Matt Jones]

So the thing I'm showing you there is that can happen in every single state in America and that will be bad for democracy. Then there's the practical impact, which is when you do this, the Republicans get about three extra points, meaning if the election was divided 50, 50, the Republicans

[Billy]

will win because they have about a three point advantage when you gerrymander.

[Matt Jones]

So anyway, I think it's awful. I think it's.

[Billy]

Now the one counter to this is

[Matt Jones]

if you gerrymander too aggressively, you could

[Billy]

shoot yourself in the foot.

[Matt Jones]

So like in Texas, they gerrymandered so

[Billy]

aggressively for the Republicans.

[Matt Jones]

But now Trump is becoming less and less popular. There may be some seats that used to be safe. So what you'll do when you gerrymander is you take a Trump +20 state and you make it Trump +12.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

You'd still win, but then those not

[Matt Jones]

as much go somewhere else. But if things get bad for you, you could take a district that was

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

safe and lose, but wouldn't they just change it again?

[Matt Jones]

Well, you used to only be able

[Billy]

to do it every 10 years.

[Matt Jones]

If you can do it every two years, then yes, they will. And imagine if your representative just changes every two years because you get put in a different district.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah, a lot of people.

[Matt Jones]

So it used to be there was, there was just a consensus we only do it every 10 years. But now they might do it every two years.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I mean, it just, it's jarring to look at some of these maps and see where the dividing lines are.

[Billy]

That map of Kentucky.

[Matt Jones]

And by the way, Kentucky is much

[Billy]

less egregious than some states.

[Matt Jones]

But that District 1 in Kentucky is ridiculous. And it's literally so Jamie Comer can live in Frankfurt.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah, like Graves county and Boyle county are in the same district in that. Crazy.

[Billy]

So anyway, that's why I think gerrymandering is, is awful.

[Matt Jones]

All right.

[Billy]

I had a couple questions people asked. Okay. One person wrote in and said, matt, who do you think will be as of today, the Democratic nominee for president in 2028? Just as long as it's not common layers.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I would be surprised if they ran her back out.

[Matt Jones]

Well, if you look at polls, she wins.

[Billy]

Winning now, but that's just because most people only know who she is. They don't know the other kids candidates. That would be a huge mistake. I hope they don't do that.

[Matt Jones]

I think if you were betting, you'd

[Billy]

probably say the favorite is Gavin Newsom.

[Matt Jones]

But I would tell you, Billy, next

[Billy]

to Kamala Harris, he's my least favorite candidate.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Is that because he's becoming more and more like Trump?

[Matt Jones]

Partially. All the things I don't like about

[Billy]

Trump, Newsome is the same, just on our side. Right. Confrontational, rude. I don't like the way he demeans.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Does his politics, maybe.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, he does.

[Billy]

I mean, he's not, in my opinion,

[Matt Jones]

as bad as Trump, but he does

[Billy]

the same stuff and I don't like it.

[Matt Jones]

My choice today, people would want me

[Billy]

to say Andy, but I think if you made me pick today, I would say Josh Shapiro. Because if you pick him, you win Pennsylvania. And if you win Pennsylvania, you win the presidency. And if the most important thing is to win, you might win it with Andy Beshear, you might win it with

[Matt Jones]

a lot of people, but you would

[Billy]

definitely win it with him.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

He's a lot less profile, though, than he is Newsom.

[Matt Jones]

And, you know, there's a lot of

[Billy]

people that have become on both parties, but especially in the Democratic Party, anti Israel, he's Jewish. That will have an impact on him in the primary.

[Matt Jones]

But what I would say is he has like 63% approval in a state

[Billy]

that's a swing state.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Mm.

[Matt Jones]

You gotta be doing something right.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Gotta win those important races. We just learned in the congressional.

[Matt Jones]

And I would argue Andy Beshear, the reason he's the second choice is the exact same reason andy Beshear has 60% approval in a 20 plus Republican state. So to me, those are the two most obvious choices. But I worry we're going to end

[Billy]

up picking Gavin Newsom because it makes everybody feel good and that's a good way to lose.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

You probably see J.D. vance on the other side.

[Billy]

Well, I think Marco Rubio is becoming really.

[Matt Jones]

Because what's happening to J.D. vance is all the things people don't

[Billy]

like about Trump are rubbing off on him.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I could see that.

[Billy]

And for some reason, they're not rubbing off on Rubio. People are acting like he's the stable guy. You know what I mean?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah, I remember DeSantis was a popular name a few years ago. Is he not the same anymore?

[Billy]

I don't think people hear about him as much anymore.

[Matt Jones]

I think the Republican one will either

[Billy]

be Rubio or Vance. It'll probably be whoever Trump decides. I don't know if you saw a week ago he was doing something and he goes, all right, how many of

[Matt Jones]

you like JD Vance?

[Billy]

How many of you like Mark?

[Matt Jones]

Like, he's gonna love playing them against

[Billy]

each other for the next two years. Yeah.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

And let's hope he doesn't run as vp.

[Matt Jones]

And I think the reason that story

[Billy]

leaked about JD Vance and Iran is because he's gonna.

[Matt Jones]

He's trying to set himself up as

[Billy]

Rubio's the one that sent us to war. I tried to stop it.

[Matt Jones]

You remember I said that two years from now.

[Billy]

That's.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

That's interesting that two years from now,

[Matt Jones]

you're going to see J.D.

[Billy]

vance saying, the mistakes Trump made, it was Marco Rubio's fault, not mine.

[Matt Jones]

That's.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I just. I don't see a lot of the same Trump voters voting for JD Or Rubio. I think there's a phenomenon.

[Matt Jones]

Well, that's. The other thing is. You think there's like a Tucker Carlson or somebody like that?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

No, I think he's a little too extreme.

[Matt Jones]

So who. Who would. The people that you're talking about, who would they like?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I don't know. I think they're, like, torn. I think, you know, maybe some don't vote in that case.

[Matt Jones]

Well, it will be interesting to say, if I was there, if I were

[Billy]

the Republicans and you made me decide today, I would tell them they should nominate Marco Rubio. He would be the candidate that, as a Democrat, I'd be the most worried

[Matt Jones]

to see because he comes off a

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

little bit more presidential.

[Matt Jones]

Yes. He comes off as the least crazy

[Billy]

person in a cabinet full of crazy

[Matt Jones]

people, which isn't hard when the other ones are Pete Hegseth, Ash Patel, rfk, you know.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah, they all may be fired by the time the next election comes through.

[Billy]

I would expect all those people we just mentioned will not be in their place by the time of the midterms.

[Matt Jones]

RFK is tough because there are people

[Billy]

that really like him, the Maha people. But we'll see.

[Matt Jones]

Of those. Of those candidates on both sides, who

[Billy]

would be the one that Billy was most likely to vote for in either party?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I mean, Bashir, I'm a little Biased about. I think he would do a good job. You know, I've related to your vanilla ice cream without sprinkles take.

[Matt Jones]

But he's gotten better.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

He's gotten a little better.

[Matt Jones]

I think he's gotten a lot better, actually.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

But you know, I don't know a lot about Gavin Newsom or Shapiro, but

[Matt Jones]

doesn't he just come off to you as kind of.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Ugh. Newsom? Yeah, yeah. Like the slicked back hair. Kind of like there's just something about

[Billy]

him that makes sense.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I want to get away from the kind of Trump politics of just, you know, shouting over people or demeaning.

[Matt Jones]

I agree. And I think most Americans do. Do you?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I think most Americans are brainwashed to. I think entertainment is what captivated them in 20.

[Matt Jones]

But that's why I would love to see like Marco Rubio and Andy Beshear because they're not entertaining.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

So opposite.

[Matt Jones]

Yes, but it. Wouldn't that be good for America to. For it not to be like that?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yes, I would like to see a return to that. But I don't think.

[Matt Jones]

But if you get Gavin Newsome and J.D. vance, we're still doing the same stuff. Right.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

It goes back to like, you know, short term attention spans and TikTok videos and who's going to go on the bro podcast. I mean that I feel like.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, the fact that Spencer Pratt

[Billy]

has a chance to be the mayor of Los Angeles.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah.

[Billy]

He can't win that, can he?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I think he can. I mean, I don't know.

[Matt Jones]

He's getting a lot of stuff. Did you see that from. But from who?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Republicans.

[Billy]

But there ain't that many Republicans in.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right, that's the problem.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Billy]

I mean, there's a few.

[Matt Jones]

But I mean that mayor in la,

[Billy]

it seems like to me has done a pretty poor job.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

So let's just vote in all the actors to our presidential office.

[Matt Jones]

Which actor would.

[Billy]

If you had to have an actor as president, who would you think would be a good one?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Well, the first one comes to mind is DiCaprio, but I think he'd be bad.

[Matt Jones]

You want DiCaprio? You want DiCaprio and his 24 year old girlfriends in and out of the. Can you imagine, like every. Every two months he's got a new first lady.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yes, I would love that. That aspect of it.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

That's my answer.

[Billy]

It would certainly be the most entertaining of all those. All right, last one.

[Matt Jones]

Somebody asked

[Billy]

the Kentucky races that are next week, what do we think happens?

[Matt Jones]

So I think the big race is the Senate and you got The Republican

[Billy]

one's the bigger one because the Republican's probably going to win the general. But let's just talk first about the Democrat. You've got Amy McGrath running again, Charles Booker running again, Dale Romans, the horse guy. And there's somebody else whose name. I'm sorry, I can't think of who

[Matt Jones]

it is, but it's going to be

[Billy]

Amy McGrath or Charles Booker. There's only been one poll, and in that poll, Booker had a lead.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Oh, he did?

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

I kind of think Charles Booker's going to win.

[Billy]

That's just my guess.

[Matt Jones]

But it's hard to know because, like,

[Billy]

there are no ads.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Billy]

None of them. Neither one of them can raise any money.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Felt like he was a lot closer the last time that he ran than Amy McGrath was. I felt like Amy was blown out. Was that not the case?

[Matt Jones]

Well, Amy won the primary last time.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Amy McGrath.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, she won.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I mean, she beat Charles Booker and then lost.

[Billy]

Did you not remember that?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I had that flipped.

[Matt Jones]

I believe Charles Booker was much closer than people thought. He made it close.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

That's what I remember.

[Matt Jones]

Then Booker ran the next time against Rand Paul. So he won the nomination.

[Billy]

She won it against McConnell, the one that I thought about running, and.

[Matt Jones]

And then he won it two years later. So they've both lost.

[Billy]

But I'm not sure if Booker was

[Matt Jones]

closer to Paul than she was.

[Billy]

McConnell. I'm not sure. I think Booker will win because I think he'll get most of Louisville to vote for him, and I think that will make him probably win. And maybe Amy McGrath can keep running.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

She's not going to stop.

[Billy]

But neither one of them, I think, can win in general.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Billy]

I mean, I like. I like Charles, but I don't. I don't think he can win in the general election.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

It's what makes Andy Beshear so interesting. A Democrat.

[Matt Jones]

Well, now, if he had run, I

[Billy]

think he could have won the Senate, but he decided not to.

[Matt Jones]

So the Republican, it looks.

[Billy]

It's now down to woke. Nate is gone. So it's Andy Barr and Daniel Cameron. Andy Barr has all the money and he's got Donald Trump's endorsement, despite the

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

ads having somebody else. A picture of somebody else. Did you see that?

[Billy]

No. What was it?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

There was an ad for Andy Barr and it was not Andy Barr. It was one of those generated ads online, but.

[Billy]

Oh, it was like a different person.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Yeah. That's kind of funny, you know, Credit to him to coming in here and doing the interview with you a few months back.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. But as a human Being, he's.

[Billy]

He's fine. Like, he's perfectly nice. And I, I think his ads were despicable. I think his ads about, like, it's

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

not a sin to be.

[Billy]

Not a sin to be white.

[Matt Jones]

Like, there would have been a time

[Billy]

in America that you would have been like.

[Matt Jones]

Like, he.

[Billy]

I'll say this to him when I see him. That was embarrassing. He's too smart for that.

[Matt Jones]

That was plain to the worst of people.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

To the woke ideology.

[Matt Jones]

No, that's plain to the worst of

[Billy]

people going, hey, I'm white and it ain't sin to be white.

[Matt Jones]

Like, you're too good for that. Andy Bars and I disagree on politics,

[Billy]

but I think he's a good man. But, like, that was ridiculous.

[Matt Jones]

And they pulled those ads pretty quickly, remember?

[Billy]

I mean, they only ran for a couple days.

[Matt Jones]

But that was embarrassing. And it was embarrassing because one of your opponents is black. You know, that's just an embarrassment.

[Billy]

Andy should be ashamed for that. And I would say it to his face.

[Matt Jones]

That was.

[Billy]

That, that was ridiculous. Now, with that said, Daniel Cameron can't raise any money.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Lost Trump's endorsement.

[Billy]

Lost Trump's endorsement.

[Matt Jones]

He found a way to, in the Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump feud, make them both mad.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

He seemed like handpicked by McConnell.

[Matt Jones]

McConnell wanted him to wait and run

[Billy]

for this spot, but he chose to

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

run for governor and that was jumped in too soon, you think?

[Matt Jones]

I think he chose to run for governor.

[Billy]

I don't think anyone else wanted him to do that. He did, and then he lost.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Made Trump

[Billy]

embarrass Trump, see him as a loser.

[Matt Jones]

You know, they had him speak at the Republican Convention and then he went lost.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

Embarrassed. Trump embarrassed. McConnell took a governor's race that was winnable, lost it.

[Billy]

So I think he was done then at that point.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

So Barr, then probably.

[Billy]

Barr's going to win, I think. I think it'll be closer than people think, but he'll win. And. Yeah, and then Barr will probably be the senator now, then you have. His spot here in Lexington is open and no one knows who's.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I was gonna say. I don't know.

[Billy]

I mean, you're gonna have to vote. Are you registered Republican or Democrat?

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I am an Independent.

[Billy]

So you can't vote.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

I don't get to vote.

[Billy]

Yeah, I'm a Democrat. I'm registered in Louisville, so I can't vote in this race. But I don't know who. I don't know these people. It's crazy to me. This is a congressional seat.

[Matt Jones]

Like, somebody's gonna win this and have

[Billy]

this job for 20 years and nobody knows who's running.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Guess you better see a yard sign on your way to the polling place.

[Matt Jones]

I guess I would vote probably for

[Billy]

the dimbo guy, but that's acknowledging I don't know anything about him.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Well, that's a problem, voting for people you don't know what they're about.

[Billy]

Yeah, no, I agree, but I don't live here so I can get away with it. I'll vote for Morgan McGarvey, and I do know him.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

So what about Massey, what do you think happens there?

[Matt Jones]

I think he wins. I think he wins, but I think it's going to be close and I think it is going to get a

[Billy]

ton of attention next week, no matter what happens.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, this would be. If Massey wins, it would be really the first Republican that has completely bucked Trump in one. And it would be a testament to what a skilled politician he is to be able to be in a district, have tens of millions of dollars spent

[Billy]

against you, the president targeting you, and then you win.

[Matt Jones]

And I think Trump thinks he's gonna

[Billy]

win or else he'd be here.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Oh, you think he'd be campaigning?

[Billy]

Yeah, he's not here cuz he's worried he'd lose. You know what would be better for Trump than to show up night before the election, campaign for this guy then beats his biggest critic in the House.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

But if he thinks it goes the

[Matt Jones]

other way, but if it goes the other way, it's an embarrassment.

[Billy]

Like it was when Matt Bevin lost here.

[Matt Jones]

Remember he came here the night before.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Now my opinion on Massey's changed quite a bit since then. Like I kind of saw him as like a fringe, you know, you know, all the food and eggs on his own farm. He was very talked about a lot about that a lot. And you know, him standing up to authority like that and I think it opened up the eyes for a lot of people.

[Matt Jones]

I

[Billy]

have a lot of respect for Massie. I still couldn't disagree with him on most things more. But he stands up for what he believes in and he is true to his ideology.

[Matt Jones]

He's anti corruption and all this and

[Billy]

he's true to it.

[Matt Jones]

You can't expect everybody to agree with you, but you should be able to

[Billy]

expect everybody to stand up for something and do what they say.

[Matt Jones]

And I think he does or not

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

flip flop on issues based on.

[Matt Jones]

And I think he does. So I don't know how you can't

[Billy]

have respect for him.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Right.

[Billy]

So I hope he wins. We'll see. We'll find out. It's what, Tuesday? Tuesday, yeah. All right. Well, thank you all very much for this.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

Hope you enjoyed my average commentary.

[Matt Jones]

It was. It was stunningly average.

[Billy (Listener/Guest)]

That's what I was aiming for.

[Matt Jones]

And that's what. And that. That means it was a success. We will see you all next week here on Interrupted.