Episode 5 - Ross Dellenger

Summary

Podcast Title: The Matt Jones Show
Host: Matt Jones
Guest: Ross Dellenger
Episode: Episode 5 - Ross Dellenger
Release Date: June 6, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 5 of The Matt Jones Show, host Matt Jones engages in an insightful discussion with Ross Dellenger, a prominent figure from Yahoo Sports, on the rapidly evolving landscape of college athletics. The conversation delves deep into the recent settlement affecting athlete compensation, the anticipated Rev Share distribution, and the broader implications for college sports programs across the nation.

---

The Rev Share Settlement and Its Implications

Matt Jones opens the discussion by highlighting the significance of the upcoming college football season in light of recent changes. He introduces Ross Dellenger as an expert well-versed in the national landscape of college sports.

Ross Dellenger explains that the 2025 season is poised to undergo what might be the most tumultuous changes in the history of college athletics. He states:

“College sports doesn't run or jog, but it crawls. But we've been moving a little faster lately, and the changes have come much quicker than they have in the past.”
[02:58]

The centerpiece of their discussion is the Rev Share initiative, a component of a recent settlement aimed at providing athletes with increased benefits and compensation. Scheduled to commence on July 1st, this initiative allows universities to receive up to $20.5 million, although participation is voluntary. Ross elaborates:

“The rev share is permitted, but it's not required. And I think you'll probably have 60 to 70% of the Power Five conference schools reach that 20 million mark.”
[04:15]

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Impact on Conferences and Individual Schools

Ross provides a breakdown of how different conferences and schools are expected to handle the Rev Share funds:

• SEC and Big Ten: Likely to fully utilize the Rev Share, with most schools in these conferences receiving the maximum allocation.
• Big 12, ACC, and Group of Six Schools: Expected to receive lower amounts, typically ranging between $3 to $5 million, with a few exceptions nearing $15-17 million.

Matt Jones raises concerns about the discrepancy in funding:

“That's a huge, huge discrepancy.”
[06:12]

Ross acknowledges the imbalance but remains optimistic that most schools will find ways to secure the allocated funds, either through revenue generation or budget cuts.

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Legal and Legislative Considerations

The settlement stemmed from antitrust lawsuits filed by athletes seeking greater compensation. Ross emphasizes that while the settlement addresses current issues, without federal legislation, schools remain vulnerable to future legal challenges.

“The settlement is a step down the path of reaching eventual solutions and stability in college athletics.”
[08:29]

He outlines the NCAA's hopes for Congressional action, highlighting three key legislative objectives:

1. Preemption of State NIL Laws: Establishing a nationwide standard to replace varied state laws.
2. Anti-Employment Clause: Maintaining that college athletes are students, not employees.
3. Codification of the Settlement: Ensuring long-term enforcement and stability.

Ross also discusses the political dynamics in Washington, D.C., noting the divided nature of Congress and the challenges in passing comprehensive legislation.

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Financial Strategies and the Future of Athletic Programs

The conversation shifts to how universities plan to manage the Rev Share funds. Ross suggests that while many Power Five schools are well-positioned financially, others will need to explore innovative revenue streams, such as:

• Naming Rights: Selling corporate sponsorships for stadiums and facilities.
• Corporate Partnerships: Expanding and enhancing existing sponsorship deals.

Matt Jones brings up the possibility of universities taking private or investment money into their athletic programs. Ross agrees that this trend is likely inevitable, citing models like private equity investments and loans as potential avenues for financial support.

“It's too prevalent in too many conferences... somebody is going to complete the process and do it.”
[17:27]

He also addresses potential fan backlash against such investments, emphasizing that while initial reactions may be negative, the financial pressures on athletic departments may necessitate these moves.

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Conference Realignment and Future Prospects

Looking ahead, Ross anticipates significant conference realignments between 2030 and 2032, driven by upcoming contract expirations related to the College Football Playoff and major TV deals. He predicts:

• Further Expansion: Conferences like the SEC and Big Ten may seek to add more teams to bolster their media and revenue standings.
• Impact on the College Football Playoff (CFP): Potential elimination of the Group of Six's automatic access, leading to a more consolidated power structure within college football.

Matt Jones voices a fan's perspective, expressing concern over the diminishing opportunities for smaller schools in prestigious tournaments. Ross concurs, noting that:

“The NCAA tournament as it exists right now is a pretty awesome event. Probably shouldn't be touched... I think the conference commissioners have said pretty firmly that they want to keep some sort of access for the little guys.”
[40:03]

Despite these intentions, Ross believes that the Rev Share era will limit the chances of underdog teams making deep tournament runs, as evidenced by recent seasons where all Sweet 16 teams hailed from major conferences.

---

Key Players Influencing the Future of College Sports

When discussing who will shape the future of college athletics, Ross identifies several influential figures:

• Greg Sankey: SEC Commissioner, a pivotal leader in guiding conference policies.
• Ted Cruz: A U.S. Senator actively involved in legislative discussions around college sports.
• Donald Trump: Although more controversial, his potential involvement through executive actions could impact future legislation.

Ross also touches on the paused efforts to establish a presidential commission on college sports, which could have otherwise introduced significant reforms aligned with super league concepts.

---

Conclusion and Future Outlook

As the episode wraps up, Matt Jones and Ross Dellenger reflect on the complexities and challenges facing college athletics. They acknowledge the delicate balance between maintaining competitive fairness and accommodating the financial imperatives of modern sports programs. Ross emphasizes the importance of monitoring the distribution and impact of the Rev Share funds over the coming year, suggesting that infighting and strategic allocations will shape the next phase of college sports.

“You are hearing about this stuff, have no idea what they're talking about... but Ross, you really do do an awesome job on this.”
[47:26]

The episode concludes with both hosts expressing anticipation for the ongoing developments in college athletics, underscoring the transformative period the industry is navigating.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Ross Dellenger: “College sports doesn't run or jog, but it crawls. But we've been moving a little faster lately, and the changes have come much quicker than they have in the past.”
  [02:58]

• Matt Jones: “That's a huge, huge discrepancy.”
  [06:12]

• Ross Dellenger: “The rev share is permitted, but it's not required. And I think you'll probably have 60 to 70% of the Power Five conference schools reach that 20 million mark.”
  [04:15]

• Ross Dellenger: “Greg Sankey actually said recently that, you know, we get into a room and we, we make political decisions referring to sort of that access spot.”
  [37:44]

• Matt Jones: “You really do do an awesome job on this.”
  [47:26]

---

This episode of The Matt Jones Show offers an in-depth analysis of the seismic shifts occurring in college athletics, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the factors driving these changes and the potential future landscape of college sports.

Transcript

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[Matt Jones]

All right, it's Matt Jones show, episode five. And you know everybody listening. Kentucky fans, Louisville fans, college sports fans, you know that the college sports environment is changing by the minute. And Ross Dellinger might be the best person. Might be? He is the best person at knowing what's happening in the national landscape of college sports. I'm not sure there's any story that that breaks, Ross, that you're not the first one to have said it. Thank you very much for coming on and sort of catching us up on this.

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, no problem, Matt. It's going to be on.

[Matt Jones]

So, Ross, let's Just start with this. Going into the 2025 college football season, how. Where would you say college athletics is going into? Would you say this will be like the most tumultuous change in a year of all time?

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, yeah, probably so. And we've. That's, that's saying a lot because we've certainly had a lot of changes the last few years. You know, I like to often say that college sports doesn't run or jog, but it crawls. But we've been moving a little faster lately, and the changes have come much quicker than, than they have in the past. When you look at, you know, they're all, most of these changes are. Are all driven by athlete groups, advocacy groups, by state lawmakers and by court court rulings. And they're all based around providing athletes with more benefits in compensation. And the biggest one yet, obviously, has been this onset of. Of rev share that will start, expected to start at least on July 1st.

[Matt Jones]

So July 1st, as I understand it, and if anything I say here is wrong, please correct me. $20.5 million each university they can, but they don't have to do. Am I correct about that?

[Advertiser 3]

That's right. It's a. It's kind of permitted. The rev share is permitted, but it's not required. And I think you'll probably have, I don't know, probably 60 to 70% of the power conference schools probably get to that 20 million mark.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, you don't think it'll be all of them? Only 60 to 70?

[Advertiser 3]

I know, I know for sure it won't be all of them. They just, you know, financially, there are some schools that won't get there.

[Matt Jones]

Can you give me an example of one like that won't or maybe you can't. But are there schools, you know, that can't or won't?

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, there's schools I know that will not and they haven't announced it yet. And I hate to hate to say it, but there's plenty that that will not. And I would say, you know, it's as many as 20 to as few as 10. I guess maybe they probably won't get there now. They'll probably get close. 15, 17 million, but they probably won't get to 20. 21 million, but I think the vast majority will.

[Matt Jones]

SEC. Do you think everyone in the SEC does it?

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, it'd be surprising if anybody in the SEC wasn't able to get to 20. And the same goes for the Big Ten probably, too. I would think most or I would think all, if not a large Large group will in the, in the Big Ten will be able to reach the 20 million. It's obviously the Big 12 in the ACC and certainly all those schools below it. Right. The group of six schools. You know, I, I doubt there be any school in the group of six that gets to 20. Only one I could think of is maybe like a Memphis, maybe like maybe Boise gets close to there. But it would, it would kind of surprise me if any, any of those schools would, would get to 20 because I think the average is probably in the 3 to 5 million range for those schools that are below.

[Matt Jones]

That's a huge, huge discrepancy. Okay, so this all starts because of a court settlement. At least that has as of this taping has not been approved yet, but is expected to be I think where you know that this is part of a player suing for Rev share and this is part of the settlement. But as I understand it, Ross, I mean this, it still is the case to me looking at it from a legal perspective that this doesn't foreclose like a court could still say down the road like this. Okay, yeah, you had this. But we don't think this actually this class represents future athletes. I mean and without congressional legislation, aren't these schools still vulnerable no matter what?

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, very much. You know, the settlement, it is as you said, it's a settling of three antitrust cases that are all over more athlete compensation. And so instead of going to court and losing as the NCAA has done quite a bit lately, and it costing them probably 10 plus billion, they settled for 2.8 billion in back pay to former athletes that are suing. And then the Rev Share is part of the settlement going forward. And so they've settled these three lawsuits. But while the settlement I think it's best described, I think the settlement as kind of a step down the path of reaching eventually solution in stability in college athletics. And I think the, one of the big reasons this settlement was made outside of that a loss in court would probably bankrupt everyone. One of the other big reasons is that they, they being the college executives and leaders and commissioners and the NCAA executives thought that settling and then starting to pay athletes through, through this Rev Share would trigger Congress to act in the passive.

[Matt Jones]

Their hope is that Congress will see this and say hey, these terms of the settlement were good for some athletes. Let's make this the basis of the legislation going forward. Is that their hope?

[Advertiser 3]

Right, right. And they, they're hoping, you know, there's really three or four things they want in federal legislation. Number One, they want a preemption of all these other nil state laws. All these other.

[Matt Jones]

Yes.

[Advertiser 3]

Different nil state laws. Number two, they want an anti employment clause where college athletes are deemed as students and not employees. And in number three is they want kind of a codification of the House settlement.

[Matt Jones]

Yes.

[Advertiser 3]

That protects them for the future. Enforcement, right. Yeah. Having rules and regulations and so they're hoping to get those things through Congress right now. You know, I live in D.C. my wife's a political reporter. There's nothing I didn't know.

[Matt Jones]

Where does she work?

[Advertiser 3]

She works for the Hill. Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, that's the most like nerdy political. So there's nothing. So that's what I was going to ask. I mean ultimately, again, it's been a while since I've been a lawyer, but in order for settlements to kind of deal with the future, part of what the reason, for instance Major League Baseball, the Players association can rule, can settle for future picks is because they do collective bargaining. Obviously the NCAA doesn't allow collective bargaining. So just from a legal perspective, I have continued to think if they don't get a federal legislation out there, this settlement is not going to save them in the future. So there are they just praying, hey, Cory Booker, Ted Cruz, please pass something. Is that kind of where the NCAA is?

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah. And that, that's, that's part of the reason why they settled is because they thought that this agreement would convince lawmakers to pass federal legislation that, you know, does all those things I just mentioned. The problem is, is it's though one party, you know, has control of Congress in the White House, which is usually easier to get legislation through. And that's the case especially when it's Republicans on this issue. Specifically though, despite all of that, you know, it's a very divided in kind of a divisive time in Congress with a lot going on. So right now, although the five, five U.S. senators, as we reported a couple of months ago, have been seriously talking and negotiating over the last probably four months. It's Cory Booker, it's Richard Blumenthal, it's Chris Coons, those are the three Democrats and then it's Ted Cruz and Jerry Moran, the Republicans. And they've been talking and it's been serious discussions I think would be best described. But there's been nothing reached. And lately I would say that they've reached a few hurdles. And so I don't know that I would expect anything to happen anytime soon. Which means is with the point you're getting at is the settlement is open to more lawsuits being.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, that's what, you know. So what's, what are the hurdles? Like what, what are the things you're hearing that are making it hard?

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, you know, an anti employment clause in a contract is something that Democrats, many of who are backed by union labor unions are pretty hesitant to agree to. So that's, that's probably number one. Number two is, is giving the NCAA or whatever entity antitrust protection to enforce rules. Many of those rules the courts have deemed illegal. So that's also a problem. And in the bigger problem there is what entity to bestow those antitrust powers to. I think NCAA, this new Power 5 conference entity or enforcement entity, some other government entity that would manage all this. So it's kind of like that's a question mark. And then the third kind of hurdle is kind of this medical trust. And this has been an issue now for like five years. And Democrats want a medical trust fund for the lower levels of Division one and they want the power conferences to pay into that medical trust fund when.

[Matt Jones]

People get hurt or something. Is that what you mean?

[Advertiser 3]

Correct, Correct.

[Matt Jones]

Okay.

[Advertiser 3]

Yep.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. That seems like just a lot of complicated factors. Talking to Ross Dellinger, the expert on college football and college basketball and just college sports realignment or just the restructuring. Let me ask you, how did you end up, I mean you work for Yahoo. How did you end up becoming in on this? I mean, how you're, you're, is it because you've got these like government sources and like you are my go to person on it. How did that end up happening?

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, it's, I, I don't really know. You know, I obviously I moved up here with, with my wife again who's, who's in politics and about six years ago and it was pretty like good time to move to D.C. it was just before the NCAA began their lobbying effort up here. So it's been about five years, five and a half years of their lobbying effort. And so that, that did kind of coincide with my move to D.C. so that helped. But I've got just kind of a news background in general. One of my first jobs out of college was working for the Associated Press and News and not sports actually. So I just have a news kind of background and a lot of these off the field issues, you know, caught my interest and in their historic. Right, their historic changes to an entity that's evolving very rapidly.

[Matt Jones]

Well, and you understand it, and I don't say this to be rude to most sports reporters, but most sports reporters when they talk about this stuff, have no idea what they're talking about. And as a former lawyer, it makes me cringe to hear the things they say. And that doesn't do it with yours. Okay, so let's do some practical things for listeners who care about college sports. All these big schools are trying to add $20 million to their budget. Do they have it?

[Advertiser 3]

I think they'll get it. Right. I think we're seeing them get it. And it, you know, you can only do that with one or two ways. You can either generate more revenue or cut expenses. I think there's probably a little bit of both going on. I think there's probably plenty of schools. You know, there's 70 power conference schools. So if we just take that group, there's probably 10 to 15 of those who already have it. Probably. Right. They don't.

[Matt Jones]

That would be like your Texas.

[Advertiser 3]

Texas A and M. Right, Right. So they. They already have a big enough pool of donate, don't donors that they probably already have that. That money. I mean, Texas A and M fired a football coach and paid him $76 million. So I think they'll. They're fine. They'll do it. Now what's funny about that kind of is, you know, their new athletic director, Trev. Trev Alberts has cut significantly, you know, and so that's been interesting. So he's doing it two ways, too. He's cutting expenses as well. We've seen that around the country. Now, you know, the other power conference schools outside of that 10 or so that probably already have it do have to find ways to get it. And we've seen a lot of cuts in staffing. We've seen a lot of cuts in salaries and just budgets in general. But what we've also seen is a lot of new ways that schools are generating revenue, which is, for instance, naming rights stuff. Right. On stadiums or fields or things like that. You know, just the enhancements of corporate sponsorships and new corporate sponsorships. You're. You're seeing quite a bit of that as well. So they'll. They might not all have it right now, but. But they'll find a way to get it, most of them.

[Matt Jones]

So I had someone who I'm pretty close with who is involved with a university, not in the sec, but a major one who is. Is trying to figure this out. And, and they said to me, I don't know if it's going to be our school, but it might be, but there's another school at least, and maybe a bunch that will Start to basically take private money and basically take investment money. And I think that's inevitable that these universities are going to basically sell shares in their sports programs to private investors. Do you think that's going to happen? And if so, is it going to happen quickly?

[Advertiser 3]

I do think it's going to happen, yeah. It's, it's too prevalent in too many conferences in schools have gone so deep on it that at some point somebody is going to complete the process and, and do it, you know, and there's different, you know, I've seen different models, PE models. You know, there's a model where, as you mentioned, it is private equity and so an entity would buy 10, 20%, whatever and have control of. Of part of a school athletic department or a conference's athletic revenue.

[Matt Jones]

How do you think fans will deal with that if like the University of, you know, I'll just pick A random one. Vermont were to be 20 owned by Toyota. I mean, like, or, you know, whatever. Like, do you think fans are going to be cool with that?

[Advertiser 3]

No, not at all. I do not. And it's part of the reason that it hasn't happened, you know, but there's another model too, you know, where it's private capital and it's basically just a loan. And we've seen that when we've seen some conferences go pretty deep, including the Big 12, that about a month ago that kind of came up for a vote, I believe, on a private capital plan. And it just didn't. Wasn't able to get across the finish line. Big Ten is looking at more of an equity model that I mentioned earlier. So on the conference level, I don't know that it happens as, as quick as it may happen on the school level. First because everybody is in a financial crunch.

[Matt Jones]

It's going to be fascinating to me because politics and the need for money are gonna. Gonna equate. So what if a Saudi investment fund a la Live decides they want to invest in Auburn football? I mean, there's nothing that stops them from doing it. But then there might be people in Alabama who are like, I don't wanna have a Saudi investment in the Tigers. Like that's coming in it rally. Like those questions are coming.

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, maybe. But you know, I think there was a story maybe like a year ago where a Colorado football assistant had gone overseas to. Allegedly it was not at the behest of the school, like he did it on his own, but he went overseas to Dubai or wherever and was trying to, to get emails had surfaced about that. So, you know, School staff members have gone to that length already and it's because of the need for money. And you know, there's a lot of people who say, well these schools have plenty of money, right? These athletic departments have plenty of money. They pay their coach $8 million a year and their facility renovation they just built is $100 million. Well, guess what, that's why they don't have money. They pay their coach $10 million. They've done this 100 million dollar project. This is why they don't have money.

[Matt Jones]

You think those salaries end up going down? Like I've wondered. Those ten million dollar deals are done.

[Advertiser 3]

It'S going to be like, I think more so. The, the salaries might not go down. They may plateau off. But what will disappear is these guaranteed long time, long term guaranteed buyouts in a contract. These, these guaranteed contracts. That, that will probably not be something we'll see in, in the future. But Sal, it's hard to, to drop salaries. I, but I think they may be somewhat plateau a little bit but in football into a degree. In men's basketball, you know, I wouldn't necessarily say that coaching salaries will, will drop or even to a degree even plateau. But in Olympic sports you're probably going to see a drop or a plateau. And you're, you're not even at the highest level. I think you're not going to see as much as of these guaranteed contracts.

[Matt Jones]

So let me ask you a question from Kentucky and this would even affect Louisville basket. So, so we're basketball schools in some ways and in Kentucky's place case playing in a football conference. And Mitch Barnhart the AD said this week that they were going to be quote flexible year in and year out as to how much of the 20 million they allocated to each sport. I know Georgia has given set percentages they were going to, but Kentucky, Mitch was like, well there might be years that we have to do this and do this. Do you think schools like Kentucky or North Carolina or schools like that are going to have to decide do we sacrifice part of our football program to stay elite at basketball?

[Advertiser 3]

Yes, to a degree. I think that when you, you know you got, you got three different buckets coming here for athletes as far as compensation. One is the one they've had for a long time which is scholarship. 2 is this school rev share and 3 is outside non school nil. The deals they kind of get in a way now. So if you're at a school with a big brand, especially a basketball brand like a Kentucky, like a Louisville, like a Kansas Duke, that third bucket, that outside nil. You should be able to generate real corporate brand type of business deals for your athletes or their. They could generate it for themselves in, in all this outside.

[Matt Jones]

But it has to be real now, right?

[Advertiser 3]

Like it has to be real is.

[Matt Jones]

That in theory it now has to be real. Like a real endorsement, right?

[Advertiser 3]

It, it probably you won't see that much any longer. It coming from like a collective, a booster at least a booster run collective. These booster deals, they all will have to go through a clearinghouse to be vetted to, to make sure that they fall into a fair market value compensation range that that Deloitte which is running the clearinghouse has come up with. Not only that, people forget too is that the second part of that these deals have to be for business purposes as well. So the businesses have to show that they are basically getting some kind of benefit, that this is for a purpose for them.

[Matt Jones]

And you think that's real? Like that's going to get enforced?

[Advertiser 3]

Sure. That's. You know I think you mentioned earlier about, about lawsuits, right? Other lawsuits. This is one that will probably see legal challenges to this fair market value. A logarithm in this clearinghouse. Okay, so Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. The message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway.

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[Matt Jones]

Right, so let me tell you another worry I think of when I look at this money. All right? So in theory, if you're St. John's or Villanova or Yukon, you don't have to worry about the football side. Is there anything that stops St. John's from spending all 20 million on basketball? And like a Kentucky or a Duke can't compete with that. Is there anything in place beyond just the market that keeps that from happening?

[Advertiser 3]

No. No. So I wrote about that during March Madness because it was a lot of that was getting back to me that this was a real issue that the power conferences were were concerned about. Is the non football playing or the very low resource football schools spending, you know, as much as, yeah, sure, 20 million. I don't know that anybody's gonna be doing that but they probably will get to 10 and of Rev. 10 million of Rev share and 10 million of Rev share is going to be more than pretty much all of the power conference basketball programs will have at their disposal because you know, average wise your football program is going to get between 13 and 16 million for its roster at the power conference level and then your basketball is going to get in between 2 and 4 million probably maybe some basketball schools might get to 5 to 6 in direct rev share like a Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, and then everybody else is going to get the excess maybe a million to women's basketball, maybe 500,000 to baseball. That's kind of how the average is going to be broken up. So if you're looking at the average being around three or four million dollars for a basketball program, the power conferences and in St. John's is going to spend 10 to 12 million dollars because they don't have a football program. That's a problem, right? That.

[Matt Jones]

That's. Yeah, it's a problem for us. We're not going to like it here. I don't.

[Advertiser 3]

Now, there's a lot of. You can try to make up with that with the outside nil. But that's where it goes back to how real and restrictive is the clearinghouse going to be.

[Matt Jones]

That's fascinating because you could see how a Yukon or St. John's could just become an absolute dominant powerhouse if they. If they really wanted to do that. I. Do you think there will be any school that says, I'm just punting on football, I'm Vandy, I'm Northwestern, I'm just not going to care and I'm going to. I'm Northwestern and I'm going to punt on football and then I'm going to make it to where I got the best women's basketball team, I've got the best baseball team I could see. Vandy, because they like baseball so much. Is that. Is that possible?

[Advertiser 3]

Probably not. And I think because, number one, right, football is generating most of the revenue even at basketball schools. I think football is generating more of the revenue. And I think if you, if you do it too much and you skew the numbers too much compared to some of your conference colleagues, I think you run the risk of real dissension within the conference. Right.

[Matt Jones]

I wondered about that. If there's any. Like you have to spend this much on football in any of these deals.

[Advertiser 3]

The SEC had actually gone down the road on doing that. They were going. And I had some of the figures. I can't remember. I know, I know football was at least 13.5 million.

[Matt Jones]

Okay.

[Advertiser 3]

I can't remember any of the other figures. Basketball may have been like 2.8 million and the SEC had set some of those standards, but you're not going to be surprised by this. But Kentucky did not in some others, too. But Kentucky basketball specifically was a pretty big voice in the room to make sure that those standards weren't set as a policy because Kentucky Obviously wants to spend more.

[Matt Jones]

Breaking some news. So they, that Kentucky was like, I mean, do you think at a school like Kentucky, are you going to have a situation where the basketball and football coach are fighting each other for how much money is going to go into the program?

[Advertiser 3]

I think that that's very possible. And we see it now, even with NIL and even before NIL just resourcing to a program. Right, we've seen that, but it's only going to be exasperate, Exacerbated.

[Matt Jones]

Right.

[Advertiser 3]

And it wasn't just, you know, Kentucky that wanted to spend more in basketball, so raised concerns about the, the, the standards that the SEC was talking about setting. Think about South Carolina women's basketball. Right. They wanted to spend Arkansas baseball, LSU baseball. Absolutely. So there were plenty of programs that wanted to spend more than the standards, sort of the maximum standards that the SEC was, was talking about doing. And so they kind of bailed on it for now. And I've quoted Greg Sankey in a story or two about that, about how they could come back to that, you know, and they could. That is still a discussion topic so that everybody would be on more of a. Even playing field.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, you know, I, I just, I, I think about. Okay, well, let me put it a different way then. Do you think there are schools that if they don't punt on football, they punt on something. For instance, do you think there will be schools that punt on men's basketball?

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, I mean, I, I think that you can't, you're not gonna, in this new kind of era, you can't be good at everything. Yeah, you're not going to be able to, to be good at at. Or you're not going to be able to invest highly for rev share in really to a degree, for scholarships too, because now we have kind of unlimited scholarships up to the new roster sizes. You're not going to be able to do that beyond like three or four sports, maybe beyond two sports. You know, you're not going to be able to do it. It's going to be hard. Now, the cap 20.5 million does raise, right? It increases every year. A lot of folks think it going to get to 25, 28 million within three or four years. So you're going to have more money to play with. So you're going to be able to.

[Matt Jones]

Invest everybody else, though. I mean, like, you know, if, yeah, you can get up to 40, but if the other guy's got 100, you're still kind of. Well, I said that's going to be fascinating to me. Well, let me, let's switch gears for a second. Ross Dellinger here. Yahoo Sports. Let me ask you about is realignment over or to put it another way, if I am in the SEC and I have 16 teams, am I going to have 18 at some point? Do they still want, and if so, Clemson, Florida State, Duke, Carolina, Virginia, like what, what, what is the sec? Do you think they still have a glimmer in their eye for anyone?

[Advertiser 3]

I think that when you look at the years 2030 to 2032, there's a span of three or so years there that are probably pivotal to the future of college athletics. You have several contracts that come up over that span that could lead to more expansion in changes. And so the College Football Playoff contract comes open, the NCAA Basketball tournament contract comes open. Then the Big 12 TV deal comes open, the Big 10 TV deal comes open. You know, so it's, it's a really important stretch there where you could have, you know, the, the schools you mentioned, certainly in the ACC, get out of the acc. And we know that the exit fee now is dropped because they settled this lawsuit, which seems like more of a temporary solution for the ACC and not a permanent one that you could see those schools move on and leave for the SEC or the Big Ten. It doesn't strike me that the SEC presidents are really hungry to add any more. More schools. Yeah, but during that span of years where all the deals come open now the SEC's doesn't come open, but, but the Big 12 and Big Tens do. And again, you have all these championships that's also come up and could be remade in a lot of ways. And you could have sort of a split of the power conferences or even of the two. You know, that's always been, been talked about. You could have a reshuffling where, you know, even if you don't want to, you kind of have to. You're going to have to take schools or your competitor. The Big Ten may take the schools that you, you want. So I think that almost certainly in that time frame we will have more conference realignment.

[Matt Jones]

I sort of, I look at it as a, as a fan, not so much. I try to not just look at it as a business deal, but as a fan. And I think the average fan is kind of okay if college football doesn't include the little guy because the little guys never really had much of a chance in college football. I mean, I've the idea that parody will get worse. It's always been bad in football, but in Basketball. I think part of what makes the tournament is you've got to have St Peter's you've got to have Oakland, or else it's not the NCAA tournament. Even in baseball, you've got to have Murray State having the opportunity. Do you agree with that? And if you do, do you think the powers that be in the SEC and Big Ten in the power four conferences agree with that about those two sports?

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, I think that in football we'll probably eventually see the access from the group. Group of six in the CFP be eliminated. Yeah, the CFP deal runs through 2031. It's again, it's in the span of years where it comes open. And so it would kind of surprise me if the group of six kept its access spot.

[Matt Jones]

And I don't think people will care. Do you? I mean, like, do you think the average college football fan will care about that?

[Advertiser 3]

Well, I think, you know, Greg Seki actually said recently that, you know, we get into a room and we, we make political decisions referring to sort of that access spot. So you, you think about it from a politics standpoint. We just talked about how the NCAA and the power conferences are lobbying for congressional legislation. Well, if you do cut out that access bot, that could certainly impact decisions from senators and congressmen went to those schools. Yeah. When schools are disadvantaged. So that's always something to keep keep in mind, you know, for the basketball tournament. I think the conference commissioners have said pretty firmly that they want to keep some sort of access for the little guys. As you mentioned there, the. Their issue is they probably don't want to keep as much access for them as they have now. Right. Which is one automatic qualifier for each of the 32 Division 1 conferences. And so, and I think this is a conversation going on with tournament expansion that's happening right now too, is do you pit, you know, those AQ teams that earn the lower level, the 16, 15, 14, 16 seeds, you pit them against one another in play, in games, and that way you create more spots in an expansion for power conference teams. I think that that's probably where we're headed.

[Matt Jones]

See, I, I get that. I know that it makes sense from a, from a business perspective, but like, nobody wants to see the 13th place team in the. I mean, they just don't. I mean, they want to see. It's weird because I think in the NCAA tournament, Ross, everybody loves the little guy until the sweet sixteen and then they want them out after that. But I do think though, that first weekend, if you, if you got rid of those teams, you would screw it up somewhat. Do you agree?

[Advertiser 3]

I do. Yeah. I do. You know, the NCAA tournament as it exists right now is a pretty awesome event.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Advertiser 3]

Probably. Probably shouldn't be touched. I, you know, I mean, do, do you need more than, what is it, 34 or 36 at larges maybe. So maybe in some kind of small expansion, the ones they're talking about right now, maybe you can add and you know, six to eight at larges. But what makes the tournament great and the, the tournament's first two rounds great are, are these schools you've kind of never heard of that pull. Pull upsets. But here's the thing about that. In the rev share era, I don't believe we'll see as many of those upsets as we have in the past. And I think we saw some of that this past year as a pretty good example of. For the first time ever, I believe every six Sweet 16 team was from a power power league.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. I do wonder though if that was uniquely, you know, there was also the COVID part of that where guy where teams had fifth and sixth year guys. I wonder if that'll still be the case. But I remember two years ago we lost to Oakland.

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Jones]

Like that wasn't that long ago we lost and Auburn lost to Yale. And I mean it wasn't like the rev. The nil was going then. I often wonder with the rev share Ross, if it'll actually. Okay, so you mentioned, let's say $2.8 million was the basketball number. I mean a school like Oakland, maybe they can't find 2.8, maybe they can find 1.5. And right now Kentucky, there are reports they're spending 10 on this year's roster. Maybe it actually brings the amount of money down in college basketball a little.

[Advertiser 3]

Bit, you know, maybe. Yeah, I, I think, you know, one of the big things this past year that really came to light, I feel like was all the players on SEC teams and other teams, but SEC specifically actually that were admin majors the year before or the two years before. Right. And it's just like a graduation up to the next level that probably won't stop and probably will only get more popular and increase more with the, with the rev share era. So that's the kind of the concern is, you know, is that. But you're, you know, you're right. Money doesn't, money doesn't just buy obviously championships and wins. And we've seen that. Right. We've seen that through, through the years that you can spend. I mean look at you know, honestly look at some of the things that Boise State has done just even before the pre NI the NIL era and the resources that they had and they.

[Matt Jones]

Were able they Gonzaga in basketball has created to where they're basically a power program. All right, I just want to give you Ross Dellinger, Yahoo Sports. I'm just giving you a couple things before you get out. If, if you were an average fan like what are you. What do you think is the storyline of the next year from the big picture college sports thing? Is it watch this settlement. Watch how these schools do with the $20.2 million. What are you watching for over the course of the next year of news?

[Advertiser 3]

You know it's certainly the rev share and how it is distributed among schools is really fascinating to me and that you mentioned it earlier. How much coaches are. Are going to be kind of infighting with. With one another.

[Matt Jones]

I think that's gonna be.

[Advertiser 3]

And. And I think. I think some of those could be fights that are taken publicly. Press conferences. You know you can imagine in a football game and I'm just throw out random SEC teams if Kentucky right pulls an upset or I'm sorry if Kentucky loses to Auburn in a game football game. You could see maybe Kentucky's coach just casually mentioning in the post game news conference that Auburn pays its football roster $4 million more than we do.

[Matt Jones]

Al was here still you can guarantee they would have been going he and Stoops would have been going at each other. I don't know if hoping Stoops will but Ross, if Cal was here that would have definitely happened.

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah and that's. And that's why the SEC had spent so much time on having a maximum sort of standard of red shift per sport. But again it was kind of kind of derailed and so now it's kind of anything you want.

[Matt Jones]

What's the coaches. What's the team with the most likely to do that? I'm going to just off the top of my head say Bruce Pearl versus Hugh Flynn freeze. I could see that wouldn't being one where they are fighting over. Can you think of one that makes.

[Advertiser 3]

Well I look at some of yeah I look at some of the programs with that we've kind of discussed already that have really big kind of historic success championship level success in a really aggressive coach at sports that aren't football in. In basketball. So again like a baseball program at LSU or women's basketball program at South Carolina. You know those sports are going to have to you would think to stay competitive have to get a pretty large majority of the revenue share, which then takes away from other sports. You know, Mississippi State just hired Virginia's coach, Brian o' Connor, and part of the hire was certainly a promise of significant revenue share for the baseball program. Well, that comes at the sports. It has to.

[Matt Jones]

That's interesting because Mississippi State is another perfect example. You could see them skimping on, on one of the other sports. And the SEC dynamic of it is, is, is fascinating. So who do you. And then maybe my last question, who are the forward thinkers? Like, you know, who are the people. If you were to say this is the Ross Dellinger, these are the five people that are going to have the biggest impact on what college sports look like in 2030 and are kind of the leaders of the pack. They could be college presidents, it could be conference commissioners, it could be senators. Who are the people that you think are really going to be deciding where we are in 2030?

[Advertiser 3]

Well, certainly one is Greg Sankey. Yeah, SEC Commissioner. He's probably, he's probably the top one. You know, if you had to pick somebody in politics, you know, there's obviously there's one person who's been more outspoken on, on this stuff, which is Ted Cruz.

[Matt Jones]

Why do you think he cares so much?

[Advertiser 3]

I, I'm guessing just in a football sports type of state like Texas, I think it's probably also good for your constituents to, to stick up for athletics and sort of preserve college athletics. So, so I would say his colleagues hate him.

[Matt Jones]

Of all this, he's like the least popular senator. So it's weird that he, if he's the one saying it, I wonder if it makes people just want to argue with him just because.

[Advertiser 3]

Well, another, another politician, I would say is the president. You know, that's interesting.

[Matt Jones]

What role do you think Donald Trump will have in it, if any?

[Advertiser 3]

Well, he's toyed with the idea of obviously issuing executive order and potentially creating a presidential commission over college sports. And right now I think that stuff's on pause, but I would expect him to, to take a re interest in it soon enough. So I think, I think he would be potentially on that, on that list, you know, of folks that could really influence going forward. And then, you know, you look at the other commissioner from the power conference power to, you know, is Tony Petitti of the Big Ten and the influential maybe presidents in his league in, in Greg Sankey's league as, you know, moving the, moving college sports forward in a different way.

[Matt Jones]

The Trump factor is an interesting one to me because I feel like he would be much more of a hindrance than a help, no matter what he does. Because since he is such a figure that people either line up for or against, if you're trying to create consensus, which I think they're going to have to pass 60 senators in the filibuster. That's why I thought the Ted Cruz, Cory Booker thing was an interesting idea, because you get the two of them together, you probably can get it passed. I wonder if Trump weighing in would only make things worse.

[Advertiser 3]

Well, there's a reason that the presidential commission that they had thought about launching is now paused.

[Matt Jones]

Okay. You think that's why?

[Advertiser 3]

I think that's part of the reason why, yes.

[Matt Jones]

Interesting. Yeah. I can tell you have more to say on that, but you may, you may have to be careful because Nick Saban was supposed to be in charge of it, and then he said they didn't think they needed it.

[Advertiser 3]

Right, right, right. I'll just, I'll say this. I'll say that the leader of. Who was supposed to be the leader, the presidential Commission, a man named Cody Campbell, was a big Texas businessman and a Texas Tech board member. You know, his ideas were a lot of similar ideas to a lot of the super league ideas that you've seen kind of floating around, which is a consolidation of media rights for all the FBS or all the, the power conference schools in spreading the distribution, spreading the revenue out a little more evenly. Well, if you're the SEC in Big Ten and you have an advantage in revenue, you have an advantage right now, why would you want to blow all that up? And so I think the SEC and Big Ten probably didn't quite like the idea of Cody Campbell, this, this man running the presidential commission when he had these, these ideas. And so I think partly that and partly the impact that the President's involvement would have on the Senate negotiations, like we talked about earlier over a bill, are reasons why it probably got paused.

[Matt Jones]

Mitch McConnell is probably the reason Louisville is in the ACC. So sometimes it can be one senator or one whoever in the right spot that makes, makes the difference. Ross, you really do do an awesome job on this. And if you're listening, Ross Dellinger on, on Twitter, or I'm not calling it X, but on Twitter you can follow him and his writing on Yahoo. Keep it up. And every time your one of your things comes up, I go, oh, what's the next thing that's. That's happened? And, and I do wish Cal. I do think it'd be funny to watch Cal. Mark. Stupid fight over revenue. Appreciate the time. And your cat, your big cat guy.

[Advertiser 3]

I know my cat is lurking around there.

[Matt Jones]

All right, well, thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

[Advertiser 3]

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Matt.

[Matt Jones]

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[Matt Jones]

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