Episode 6 - LA Protests

Summary

Podcast Title: The Matt Jones Show
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Episode: Episode 6 - LA Protests
Release Date: June 12, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 6 of The Matt Jones Show, host Matt Jones engages in a candid and in-depth conversation with Billy Rutledge, known as Billy R Sports. The discussion navigates through pressing social and political issues, including immigration, transgender athletes in sports, the recent protests in Los Angeles, and the role of the military in domestic affairs. The episode offers diverse perspectives on these topics, blending personal opinions with broader societal implications.

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Discussion on Transgender Athletes in Sports

Timestamp: [04:09]
Matt introduces the topic by highlighting a recurring issue in sports: transgender athletes competing in categories that may not align with their biological sex. He shares a notable statistic, stating, "High school sports in Kentucky has only one biological male competing in women's sports," to underscore the rarity of such cases.

Billy Rutledge: Agrees with Matt's perspective, emphasizing the minimal number of incidents: "It's happened one time."

The conversation delves into the specifics of the Riley Gaines controversy, where Riley Gaines tied for fifth place with Leah Thomas. Matt argues that the uproar over a fifth-place finish is disproportionate, questioning the significance of the issue given its rarity.

Notable Quote:
Matt Jones at [07:54]: "I think Democrats are stupid that we make this a big issue because we're on the losing side of the issue."

Billy concurs, pointing out that the media sensationalizes such events:
Billy Rutledge at [08:02]: "It's also to be able to control people's perceptions and opinions in some ways."

The duo reflects on the public feud between Riley Gaines and Simone Biles, viewing it as emblematic of why political issues often become so divisive over relatively minor incidents.

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Immigration and Its Impact on the Economy

Timestamp: [10:00]
Matt shifts the conversation to immigration, presenting his stance on border control and the necessity of immigrants in various sectors of the American economy. He posits that while border security is essential, the sheer number of immigrants (estimated between 30 to 40 million illegal immigrants) poses significant challenges.

Billy Rutledge: Supports Matt's view on the importance of immigrants, stating, "Our workforce."

They discuss the hypothetical scenario of deporting all illegal immigrants, illustrating the potential economic fallout. Matt argues that removing such a vast number of workers would lead to skyrocketing costs and economic collapse, given the dependence on immigrants in industries like agriculture, construction, and retail.

Notable Exchange:
Matt Jones at [13:23]: "What do you think? Would that [economic crash]?"

Billy Rutledge: Agrees, emphasizing the impracticality of such an action:
Billy Rutledge at [15:05]: "Yeah, not. Not at once or really at all."

The conversation concludes with mutual agreement on targeted deportations for violent criminals, rather than a blanket approach.

Notable Quote:
Matt Jones at [15:22]: "Should we deport the violent ones? Do you agree with that?"
Billy Rutledge at [15:37]: "I do. Get him out."

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Los Angeles Protests and Military Involvement

Timestamp: [19:00]
The discussion transitions to the recent protests in Los Angeles, focusing on the deployment of the National Guard and military presence in domestic unrest. Matt criticizes former President Trump's unprecedented move to deploy the military without state governor approval, deeming it a dangerous politicization of the armed forces.

Billy Rutledge: Expresses concern over military involvement, highlighting the potential for abuse:
Billy Rutledge at [21:06]: "If it's a state. Right. Normally, then is that good? I wouldn't want a president to run the military. Do you want the commander in chief?"

Matt underscores the historical precedent that the military should remain apolitical and exclusively under state control during domestic issues.

Notable Quote:
Matt Jones at [24:07]: "Military seems extreme."

They both agree that the military's role should not extend to policing civilian protests, viewing such actions as a slippery slope towards authoritarianism.

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Political Polarization and Media Influence

Timestamp: [34:48]
Matt and Billy explore the landscape of political talk shows, noting the dominance of right-wing perspectives in radio and podcasts. They contrast this with the scarcity of left-leaning shows, arguing that the incentive structures favor extreme viewpoints to capture and retain audiences.

Matt Jones: Criticizes the lack of moderate voices, stating, "there's no incentive, because the moderates and liberals aren't listening."

Billy Rutledge: Agrees, highlighting the echo chamber effect:
Billy Rutledge at [40:54]: "It's usually an echo chamber."

The conversation touches on prominent figures like Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro, discussing their influence and the reinforcement of partisan beliefs among listeners.

Notable Exchange:
Matt Jones at [41:02]: "They don't have any incentive... the only way they can get people to listen is to be as far right wing as possible."
Billy Rutledge: "That's a bigger issue. We've got a bigger issue when it comes to our structure of politics in general."

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Vaccine Opinions and Public Trust

Timestamp: [42:31]
The dialogue shifts to public perceptions of vaccines, particularly in the context of COVID-19. Billy clarifies his stance, affirming that he is not anti-vax, having received the COVID vaccine himself. However, he expresses skepticism towards government messaging and acknowledges the complexities faced by officials during the pandemic.

Matt Jones: Discusses the potential consequences of widespread vaccine misinformation, pondering scenarios where public health directives could have life-or-death implications.

Notable Quote:
Matt Jones at [43:22]: "I think the government, Fauci and some of those people in encouraging people to do it, act like it would do more than it did. But I also think that the encouraging people to do it was the right thing because I think there would have been many more people die without it."

Billy reflects on the uncertainty and the psychological impact of the pandemic:
Billy Rutledge at [44:35]: "It's just unfortunate there's a mental health crisis."

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Remote Working and Social Dynamics

Timestamp: [44:48]
Matt advocates for the importance of in-person work environments, arguing that remote work diminishes societal bonds and reduces opportunities for healthy interpersonal conflicts. He believes that face-to-face interactions are essential for building community and fostering diverse perspectives.

Billy Rutledge: Supports the notion, emphasizing the value of community connections formed through physical workplaces.

Notable Exchange:
Matt Jones at [45:07]: "We need to form bonds, sense of community, connections."
Billy Rutledge at [45:07]: "We."

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Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

In wrapping up the episode, Matt and Billy reflect on the pervasive nature of political tribalism and the influence of media on public opinion. Matt emphasizes the importance of maintaining belief systems and the dangers of falling into complete skepticism.

Notable Quote:
Matt Jones at [46:57]: "No, I'm serious. You got to believe in something. Like I always hear people say, you know, I do my own research. Well, but you're stupid."

Billy adds a cautionary note on misinformation and the challenges of discerning credible sources:
Billy Rutledge at [49:36]: "Yeah, I do that often."

The episode concludes with a brief promotion for Cornbread Hemp's wellness products, seamlessly integrating sponsorship into the narrative.

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Conclusion

Episode 6 of The Matt Jones Show offers a robust discussion on contentious social and political issues, presenting a blend of personal anecdotes, statistical insights, and critical viewpoints. Matt Jones and Billy Rutledge navigate topics ranging from immigration policies and transgender athletes in sports to the role of the military in domestic protests, all while highlighting the challenges posed by political polarization and media influence. The conversation underscores the complexities of modern societal debates and the importance of nuanced dialogue in bridging ideological divides.

Transcript

[Matt Jones]

Welcome to episode six of the Matt Jones Show. We are presented now by Cornbread Hemp, this is the Good Life. Thanks to our folks friends at Cornbread Hemp, who have decided to sponsor this show and podcast. I very much appreciate it. They've been with us for a long time. I'm gonna have to get used to saying this is the good life, but Cornbread Hemp, I use it. You should use it to gummies. They now have these seltzers. Thanks to Cornbread Hemp. They are the good life. It is episode six. And you know, we've done. We've done four episodes where I've interviewed people. We're going to do more. We did one episode where we kind of did Drew and I with a top 10 list of news with Billy, and we're going to do that. That seemed to be a big hit. So we will do that again. But I was trying to think with this show, part of the reason I wanted to do it is on Kentucky Sports Radio, which I do. We will often go in depth on topics. But I've kind of had a rule that I wasn't going to go in DEP on politics because I don't want KSR to become like a show that divides people. I want to give a show that everybody can unify politics. Unfortunately, some people are just, they're so rigid on it and they don't want to hear the other opinion. But here's the thing. I do have opinions, and I actually think they are much more reasonable than some of the more critical people to me are. And I don't get a chance to really express them in long form because we just don't do that on ksr. So I thought it would be good with there's a lot of news going on to sort of use this today as an opportunity to talk about a couple of these things that are happening. Sort of where my opinion is, I think most of the time on talk radio, especially on this station in Louisville, whas. But even on podcast, right wing opinions tend to sort of far outweigh left. In mainstream media, it's probably the opposite, but in radio and podcast, it's probably right wing. So I tend to come at it from a different perspective. So I was thinking, how do I share that without just being the guy who's lecturing people on the radio? Because I hate that the best that that was Rush Limbaugh many years ago, but he's dead, rest in peace. And also who just wants to sit to somebody and just listen to them, lecture them. So I have with me Billy. He's Billy Rutledge. You all know him as Billy R Sports. And I thought Billy would be a good person to kind of have in as I'm doing this because Billy, I would say is someone educated, follows the news like a normal person, but is not like ingrained in it, is not an expert on the subjects. Would you, Billy, agree with that as a description of you?

[Billy Rutledge]

Yes. And that's maybe the nicest description of me you've given. So thank you, Matt.

[Matt Jones]

That's not true. I'm nice to you, but you. I think you're an educated person, but you don't sit and read or watch political news regularly. Would I. Would you.

[Billy Rutledge]

You know, I'm not in the weeds on it, but you know, I regularly listen to 8:40 WH.

[Matt Jones]

But maybe that's. But, but you understand that's like opinion and it's tends to lean pretty right wing opinion.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. And news stories, you know, Paul Miles and all the guys in the newsroom.

[Matt Jones]

Are bringing local things nationally. That's not as much.

[Billy Rutledge]

Nationally. Yeah, not as much.

[Matt Jones]

So where would you say, how would you describe yourself? Do you think you are a right winger? Are you a conservative?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, I would not describe myself as a conservative. I would say I lean more to the right every day, but I initially.

[Matt Jones]

You lean more to the right every day?

[Billy Rutledge]

I think so. I think as I get older, I feel like I'm becoming more conservative.

[Matt Jones]

Why do you think that is? Like, give me an example of something you're. You've become more conservative on.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, you know, like humanitarian issues. I don't know.

[Matt Jones]

You're not a humanitarian?

[Billy Rutledge]

I'm not for saving the world, I guess. I don't know. We need to be the protectors of other countries at all.

[Matt Jones]

So give me an example of what. So like you, but is that what are those the issues you care the most about?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, no, I'm just saying, like in general, like here are some of the things that I feel like I've. As the days go on, I feel I find myself more and more to the right. Like, you know, trans and sports.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, so let me, let me stop you with that right there. Yes, the trans and sports thing, I think a lot of people have an issue with that. Obviously Riley Gaines from Kentucky in the news a lot. It's interesting to me though, of all the issues that I brought up, why does that one, the first one that comes up.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, you're talking to Billy, our sports here, Matt. So sports is.

[Matt Jones]

But if it was really something you have you really care about, you know.

[Billy Rutledge]

It'S not like I am going to live or die if a man competes in a swimming competition.

[Matt Jones]

But how many men do you biological men compete in women's athletes?

[Billy Rutledge]

Not many. Not many at all. Like, just give me like a number or a percentage.

[Matt Jones]

Give me like how many, let's put it like this. High school sports in Kentucky. How many biological men you think have competed, people born a boy have competed in women's sports in Kentucky?

[Billy Rutledge]

I mean, double digits maybe. I mean, even on the level.

[Matt Jones]

What if I told you it was just one person?

[Billy Rutledge]

One person in the entire state?

[Matt Jones]

1.

[Billy Rutledge]

I'd be surprised by that number.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, well, that's. That's the correct number. I don't think a lot of people realize that because we talk about it a lot. And by the way, I'm, for the most part agree with you. I'm 95% with you. I think it's an unfair advantage for people who were born a male to compete in women's sports. A lot of Democrats won't say that sentence. I just said a lot of them will, but a lot of them won't. And I agree with that. But I think it's fascinating to me this is an issue because. How often does it happen?

[Billy Rutledge]

Only according to you. One time. In this entire state with it, only.

[Matt Jones]

Of happening One happened one time. I don't understand why people care so much. It's happened one time. And do you know in the context.

[Billy Rutledge]

Of when it happened, the Riley Gaines.

[Matt Jones]

Is what you're saying, that's college?

[Billy Rutledge]

Yes.

[Matt Jones]

In high school?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, I do not know the context.

[Matt Jones]

It was once. It was an 8th grader who started a sports team and then, and then once they started playing, they said that they couldn't play anymore. The team didn't even exist until the young person.

[Billy Rutledge]

No medals won or anything like that.

[Matt Jones]

Riley Gaines, perfect example. Do you know what place Riley Gaines came in?

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, it was like sixth.

[Matt Jones]

Riley Gaines came in fifth. A lot of people don't realize that. A lot of people don't realize Riley Gaines did not come in second and lose to. What was the person's name?

[Billy Rutledge]

Leah Thomas. Was it Leah Thomas?

[Matt Jones]

I think, you know, Leah Thomas and Riley Gaines tied for fifth. Did you know that?

[Billy Rutledge]

I mean, I've heard Riley say that she finished fifth.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, yeah, she tied for fifth with Leah Thomas. And the whole controversy stems from they only had one fifth place trophy and.

[Billy Rutledge]

She didn't get the.

[Matt Jones]

I don't think a lot of people know this. They had the three medals and Then for the NCAA gives fourth place a trophy and fifth place a trophy. And they only had one trophy and they gave Leah Thomas the trophy instead of Riley Gaines. Now, looking back, they should have just given the trophy to fifth place trophy. It's funny to see how the world would be different if they had just given Riley Gaines the trophy.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

You know what I mean? But I do note it was a fifth place trophy, which means, Billy, four women beat Leah Thomas. I don't think a lot of people know that. Does Riley Gaines have a point that maybe Leah Thomas shouldn't have been in it? Sure, I'll give her the point. But do you think we all should have been this worked up about a fifth place trophy?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, not at all. No, it's. And, you know, it's been such a talking point that I think it's more of an issue than it is.

[Matt Jones]

Why do you think it's a talking point?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, I think that there is an importance to, you know, keeping young women safe and having men in women's locker rooms is a real issue. But at the same time, it's also to be able to control people's perceptions and opinions in some ways, I'm sure.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. I would say to you, get people riled up. It's a talking point because it gets people riled up. Yeah, that's why it's a talking point. I mean, I. I think. I think I saw a poll that 80% of Americans generally believe that biological males should not compete women's sports. Now, I think Democrats are stupid that we make this a big issue because we're on the losing side of the issue. But I also think that the reason Riley Gaines is popular and the reason it's talked about so much is because people want to make you mad. And you know what? It works because, Billy, I asked you what you lean right on, and it was the very first thing you said.

[Billy Rutledge]

It's also in my mind because Simone Biles and Riley Gaine had a very public feel.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, so let's use that for an example. First of all, I thought Simone Biles shouldn't have made the comments that. I think she said something about Riley Gaines being big or something like that. She shouldn't have said that. Also, though, Riley Gaines, I think, mocked Simone Biles for what, quitting in the Olympics or something?

[Billy Rutledge]

Yes. Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

What I don't understand, I think both of the. I think that their interaction is a perfect example of why I hate these political issues. They may both be really good people. I don't know if they Are. I don't know either one of them, but they were both really nasty to each other. Why? Over something, a fifth place trophy?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, there's a bigger issue at hand.

[Matt Jones]

Is it though. But is it a big issue?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, I mean, think about the mindset of the country though, because it feels like a lot of left leaning people have a mindset that they would want trans athletes, sports. And there is a warped view of really. Okay, let's say they do what America was.

[Matt Jones]

How many people do it?

[Billy Rutledge]

Not a lot. Not a lot.

[Matt Jones]

So I don't know why it's as big. There's a lot of people that have warped opinions on things that I don't think are important. Let me tell you what I think is important. Much more so than that you've been following what's happened in Los Angeles. Okay. So let's take immigration for a minute. What is your position on. If I were to. Well, let me give you my position on immigration, see if you think any of this is, is, is irrational. Okay. So we have, depending on who you ask, anywhere from 30 to 40 million illegal immigrants in America. Nobody really knows for sure, but that's just a guess. Okay. My guess is that number's more towards the 30, but we don't really know, to be honest with you. And it is with certainly the case that especially since COVID the border was way too open. We didn't do a really good job of policing our border. And you know, let me give Trump credit for something.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, hold on, let's take a moment here.

[Matt Jones]

I'm gonna give him credit for policing the border. I think the border, the border is safer now than it was. The border was actually pretty much police the same during the Trump, Obama years, Biden years. It fell off. So let me give him credit for that. But so to me, the question of should we control our borders is a yes. Do you agree with that?

[Billy Rutledge]

Yes, I do.

[Matt Jones]

Yes. Do you believe in the idea of immigration in general, that we should have immigrants into America legally?

[Billy Rutledge]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, so we're now we found so far you and I agree on everything. I think 98% of the people listening agreed with both those stats.

[Billy Rutledge]

Sure.

[Matt Jones]

The question then becomes what do we do with the 30 million people that are here now? What would you. Well, I'm not. Before I say what you would, here's a fact. I don't think people get to hear a lot. We need a lot of these people, the immigrants, even the illegal ones, we need them. Why do we need them?

[Billy Rutledge]

Our workforce.

[Matt Jones]

If we didn't have illegal immigrants. Our food would cost twice as much as it costs now. We're in Kentucky. The horse industry down here. What percentage of the horse industry you think are illegal?

[Billy Rutledge]

90%.

[Matt Jones]

I don't know about 90, but it's a lot.

[Billy Rutledge]

It's a lot.

[Matt Jones]

I don't know if it's 90, but it's a lot. What about the tobacco farms that are left?

[Billy Rutledge]

Not sure about that one.

[Matt Jones]

A lot. What about farmers in the Midwest? How many of them you think employ illegal immigrants?

[Billy Rutledge]

Probably a few.

[Matt Jones]

A lot. How much construction in America you think is done by illegal immigrants?

[Billy Rutledge]

Most. A lot.

[Matt Jones]

You ever been to like a Home depot at like 5am they all line up.

[Billy Rutledge]

There are waiting for people to come.

[Matt Jones]

By, people standing at most local Home Depots early in the morning, waiting for someone who's doing work to come and pick them up and take them. My point is, let's say theoretically, we kicked all 30 million of those people out, right? Would that. What do you, you know what would happen?

[Billy Rutledge]

Society? Would our economy crash? Yeah, we don't feel it.

[Matt Jones]

It would crash. No. Who's going to do those jobs? Do you want to work. Do you want to work at a. In the horse farms?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, no, I like horses.

[Matt Jones]

Do you want to work at a chicken factory?

[Billy Rutledge]

No.

[Matt Jones]

Do you want to work picking grapes in California?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, no. AC is where I'd like to be.

[Matt Jones]

Here's a little. Do you know what our unemployment rate is right now?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, I don't.

[Matt Jones]

Very low. I don't know what it is, but it's like 3 or 4%. It's like. And it was low during the binding. It's been low for a long time. So let's say we kicked all 30 me of those people out. Who's going to do those jobs?

[Billy Rutledge]

We'd find some people. We'd have to eliminate some of the cushy jobs like KSR pre show hosts because we need real jobs.

[Matt Jones]

Seriously, who would do them? No, but you're not going to leave to go do that, are you? What's the, what would it take to get you to leave the KSR pre show to go work at a horse farm?

[Billy Rutledge]

Hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Matt Jones]

So they'd have to pay you more, right?

[Billy Rutledge]

A lot more.

[Matt Jones]

And then what would happen to the cost of things?

[Billy Rutledge]

Everything.

[Matt Jones]

Everything would go up.

[Billy Rutledge]

Everything would go up.

[Matt Jones]

So part of the reason food, food is more expensive now, but part of the reason we're able to afford it is we have illegal immigrants working at these places. And if we were to get rid of all of them, we either would not be able to fill the jobs or we'd have to pay enough that the billies of the world go and do it. So the economy would crash. So you would. Would you then agree with that information that we shouldn't deport all 30 million people?

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, Not. Not at once or really at all? All of them.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, so let's stop right there. Okay, so now we've agreed on three things. Close the border or not close it, but we should police it. We should have immigrants, and we shouldn't deport all 30 million.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, it's an impossible thought to deport all immigrants in the country. Yes.

[Matt Jones]

Fair enough. So now we're left with the decision of should we deport the violent ones? Do you agree with that?

[Billy Rutledge]

I do.

[Matt Jones]

So do I. We've now got four things. We agree if somebody's been violent or has committed crimes in America and you are here illegally, you should be gone.

[Billy Rutledge]

I agree. Get him out.

[Matt Jones]

Get him out. Okay, now, what about everybody else? That's probably. Let's say we get. Let's just say it's a million people. I bet it's not, but let's just say a million of them are violent. Now we're at 29 million illegal immigrants. What are we doing with those people? Well, I would argue. Would you argue that the ones that are working.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yes. No, I don't want. I need to see a plan. I want to see how you are impacting this country for the better.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, so here's where my problem is. When we get to Los Angeles, I'm for deporting everybody that has done something illegal. Do you agree that those people should get due process to show that whether or not they've done something illegal?

[Billy Rutledge]

As an. Illegal. Yeah. In this country? Yes, I think we should show that.

[Matt Jones]

So now, immediately, you now disagree with the Trump administration on one thing. They don't believe those people deserve due process. You can see why that would be a problem, because what if they get it wrong? What if they say that Billy committed a murder, but it was actually Sam, and they accidentally got Billy?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, that'd be a tragedy. I mean, and that has happened for that person that is essentially trying to work towards citizenship, and that has happened.

[Matt Jones]

So do you agree that. And by due process, I don't mean they get a full trial like an American would, but they go in front of a judge, the courts, the American.

[Billy Rutledge]

You know, the right to an attorney. I mean, things like that. Right.

[Matt Jones]

And they just say. And the judge goes, are you here illegally? Yes. Did they do this? There's enough evidence that suggests it does. You're gone. You good with that?

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. The legal system, I think, works in.

[Matt Jones]

This country, but they weren't giving those people.

[Billy Rutledge]

Some of them, they were just deporting them.

[Matt Jones]

They were just deporting them without it. You think it's okay to deport them to countries where they did. Where they're not from, just like, to.

[Billy Rutledge]

Get rid of them?

[Matt Jones]

Yes, they were. Is it okay to send them to the Sudan if they're from Mexico?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, that really puts them in a spot to fail. I mean, if this single mother and her three kids gets deported to a country that she's not from.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, So I think so now, I've just given you two things that the current administration has done that. Billy, our sports disagree. So when I see this stuff happening in la, I just say, give these people due process and let's not prioritize deporting the people that happen to be working. Stephen Miller, Trump's head advisor on immigration, gave a. Apparently gave a quote where he said, go to the Home Depot and get all of them. Isn't that a terrible message? Let's take the ones that are actually working.

[Billy Rutledge]

Round them up like that.

[Matt Jones]

Round them up. By the way, they have wives and kids at home. Are we going to tell them they're gone?

[Billy Rutledge]

See, this is tough. I mean, is it just because you cross an imaginary line?

[Matt Jones]

You're imaginary, it's real.

[Billy Rutledge]

You're granted all of the rights that American citizens have.

[Matt Jones]

It's not all the rights. They just get a right to due process.

[Billy Rutledge]

Right to due process.

[Matt Jones]

And is America better off if the ones working at the Home Depot aren't there?

[Billy Rutledge]

No.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, so immediately now we've got another thing you disagree with. So that gets me to la. Here's my problem with what's happening. First of all, you should never be violent in a protest, ever.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. Like throwing rocks at cars and things like that.

[Matt Jones]

How many cars got set on fire in L. A, do you know?

[Billy Rutledge]

I don't. I don't know.

[Matt Jones]

I don't know the other either, but I keep seeing the picture of the same one.

[Billy Rutledge]

That's the media for you.

[Matt Jones]

I'm not. No violence. Anytime a protest is violent, you're losing the American public. I also think it's really bad for my cause for people to be waving the Mexican flag around, because that's not an image you want to show. Right. These people want to be in America.

[Billy Rutledge]

They're trying to leave that country that.

[Matt Jones]

You'Re the flag but by the way, do we have that same view on Irish American Heritage Day when they have the Irish flag? How many politicians right now are flying the Israeli flag?

[Billy Rutledge]

I'm not sure.

[Matt Jones]

But to take up for Israel.

[Billy Rutledge]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure there's some.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. But I still would say, you know, if I was the PR advisor for these protesters, maybe not the Mexican flag.

[Billy Rutledge]

And don't block the roads, dude, don't block the roads.

[Matt Jones]

The worst thing you can do is block a road. I'm telling you, I don't care what the issue is. If I see people blocking a road, I'm against that issue, whatever the issue. No, I'm serious. Like when I see people, when I'm driving, as people say, oh, honk if you don't like Trump, I might honk. But if you're in the road, I'm honking at you.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, no, I'm with you. It's crossing the line out of the road. Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

Okay. So I think we get rid of the violent immigrants, illegal immigrants. I think we don't block the road. We certainly don't have violence. But you want to know what troubles me the most about la?

[Billy Rutledge]

What's that? The military being there, the National Guard getting called up.

[Matt Jones]

First of all, do you know where the National Guard. The National Guard exists to be called up by states when they need help. But it has been always the principle in America that the state governor has to call them up. For the first time in history, Trump has called them up and ignored the governor. That's worrisome to me. Do we want to give a president power to call up the National Guard no matter what, whether the local people want it or not? We've never done that in our history.

[Billy Rutledge]

If it's a state. Right. Normally, then is that good? I wouldn't want a president to run the military. Do you want the commander in chief?

[Matt Jones]

But the military is supposed to be about protecting the country, not turning on people in the country.

[Billy Rutledge]

I think some people might look at that situation and think that military involvement would be protecting people in LA business.

[Matt Jones]

What if I told you that the American military has never been used for that? Never since the Civil War?

[Billy Rutledge]

I would not have known that.

[Matt Jones]

So when I see this, and I see military people holding weapons in front of Americans, I'm troubled by that. And guess what? I think the people on the right would be troubled if it was the other way around. Do you think Americans in Alabama would like to see a Democratic president call the military out on a protest of an abortion clinic?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, not at all. But that's where my mind was at, too, because it's gotta be very political, with Gavin Newsom being so far left leaning and Trump.

[Matt Jones]

You think Trump is not far right leaning?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, he is, but I'm saying, like, Trump is doing this.

[Matt Jones]

The military is supposed to be the one institution in America that's not political. Right. Gavin Newsom and Donald Trump are, by their very nature, going to be political.

[Billy Rutledge]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

But the military. Ask anyone who's been in the military, they tell you, you are not political. The generals are not supposed to be appointed by the president. Right. They're not political. But when you use the military because you're mad at the Democratic governor.

[Billy Rutledge]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

You're making our military political.

[Billy Rutledge]

And that's a slippery slope.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, it's a very slippery slope. Back to my abortion clinic thing. Do you believe if Christians are out there saying, no, I'm gonna protest abortions, that we should send the military to point guns at them?

[Billy Rutledge]

Not in that instance, no.

[Matt Jones]

Then what's the difference?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, back to my point, I think you have. You should protect the businesses in an area.

[Matt Jones]

But isn't that what the police and the National Guard are for?

[Billy Rutledge]

You would think, yes.

[Matt Jones]

Have you seen anything in LA to suggest we need the military? No.

[Billy Rutledge]

No. Military seems extreme.

[Matt Jones]

Military seems extreme. So that is my problem when I see L. A. Have we had riots before? Yes. Are they bad? Yes. Should they be doing them? No. Do I think the United States military should be walking the streets of la? No. It also puts those military members in such. What if they have? Do we want our military to have to shoot our own citizens?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, but the inverse is Kyle Rittenhouses are crossing state lines to try to protect people that he thinks deserve to be protected.

[Matt Jones]

And was that good?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, not at all.

[Matt Jones]

And was it good that he was invited to the White House?

[Billy Rutledge]

No.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, so now you see my issue with la. Do you know what's happening Saturday?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, I don't. What's happening?

[Matt Jones]

We're having a military parade.

[Billy Rutledge]

Oh, I did see this headline, actually. Yes.

[Matt Jones]

Trump's birthday.

[Billy Rutledge]

Perfect time, then.

[Matt Jones]

And the 250th anniversary of the army unluckily or unluckily coincided to the same day, and we're having a military parade through the streets of D.C. how often.

[Billy Rutledge]

Do we have those?

[Matt Jones]

Never. Never that I've ever seen. You ever seen a parade of tanks in the middle of a city? I haven't.

[Billy Rutledge]

No. And I only hear it from countries that are a little insane.

[Matt Jones]

Exactly. When is that? When you think of A parade of tanks down the street. What do you think? North Korea, Russia, Iraq.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

Do you like that we're doing that?

[Billy Rutledge]

Shows a force. Yeah, generally.

[Matt Jones]

Shows a force to who?

[Billy Rutledge]

The world.

[Matt Jones]

Are we about to be invaded? Did I miss something?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, no. But Trump does like to puff his chest and make sure that people don't test him.

[Matt Jones]

And do you think having a parade down the street is gonna make people. How did those parades work out for the Soviet Union?

[Billy Rutledge]

Not great. I mean, when you prioritize and continue to agree with Rand Paul.

[Matt Jones]

I heard Rand Paul on TV say, I'm against it. That's what countries like North Korea do. We're not supposed to be doing that. So what worries me about Trump is not that he and I disagree on politics. Trump probably wants less immigrants to America than I would. That's fine. He won. He gets to decide. You know what I mean? I'm good with that. But I hate that Trump's doing these things that are completely changing what it is that America does. It was interesting when we started this. You said you lean more and more. Right. And the thing you said was trans stuff. But part of what I think they do with that issue is make it to where we all fight about that, or we go see whether or not Elon Musk called Trump a name or Trump called Elon Musk a name or all that. And we're, like, missing the fact that our. In that, like, part of the bedrocks of America are kind of getting withered away while we all argue about whether or not Riley Gaines should have gotten her trophy for fifth place.

[Billy Rutledge]

And we're distracted while meanwhile, Trump is selling 20, 28 hats. And, you know, maybe once upon a time that there is a He runs.

[Matt Jones]

Again that he's create like, well, I don't want to just turn this into. But that. That to me, is an.

[Billy Rutledge]

The changing of American bedrocks. It's an interesting argument.

[Matt Jones]

I'll tell you what is a bedrock. Clayton and Croom.

[Billy Rutledge]

Oh, very good.

[Matt Jones]

Founded on a simple idea. All leather goods should last a lifetime. They make everything from bags, belts, wallets, and more. And the best part, they're doing it right here in Kentucky. Check them out. Clayton and croom.com that cr u m e.com or visit their flagship retail store in Louisville at 216 S. Shelby St. Located in Nulu. Quality leather goods. Built to last. Do you like the. Do you like the Elon Musk Trump fight? Now that we've been serious, do you like watching them go at each other?

[Billy Rutledge]

I do. You know, Elon kind of apologized, I think, and said he went too far.

[Matt Jones]

Too far? Yeah.

[Billy Rutledge]

You think you went too far ahead. And I think that was good of him to say that as his, you know, his stocks collapse and his holdings in Tesla, but bizarre that, you know, Trump had Teslas on the lawn.

[Matt Jones]

And you think that should have happened?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Matt Jones]

You know, it's amazing how much he gets his. We're, like, letting him take his business interests and just make him part of.

[Billy Rutledge]

The government and an immigrant himself. Right. Not originally from America, even though he is all on board now.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. And Musk, by the way, is pro immigration because all of his engineers, a lot of them, are immigrants. No, I mean, Musk is pro immigration because he knows. And by the way, at his space, at his AI places, you know, I bet a lot of the people that work there are illegal immigrants.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. He's not a big fan of the budget Bill.

[Matt Jones]

What's interesting to me is I don't understand how Musk thought. Basically accused Trump of the Epstein stuff, and now he's cool with it.

[Billy Rutledge]

And Trump. Oh, Elon's cool with him or Trump's cool with him, is what you're saying.

[Matt Jones]

No, if Elon thinks he's in the Epstein, then how's he now cool with him?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, he knows that for the betterment of his companies over the next four years, he needs to kiss and make up.

[Matt Jones]

Very moral.

[Billy Rutledge]

I think there's an argument that Elon is more influential than Donald Trump in the next 20 to 30 years in America. And so him being so close to the presidency is almost a little concerning.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. I find Elon to be extremely unlikable. Like, with Trump, there's at least this charm. It doesn't really work on me, but I can see why people find him charm. Right. Like, he's. He's funny. You know what I mean? He says crazy stuff. He's been on television, so he knows how to entertain. I just find Elon to be a weirdo.

[Billy Rutledge]

He doesn't have any social skills.

[Matt Jones]

All these billionaires, they want to be cool.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

Which.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, it's the one thing they don't have.

[Matt Jones]

That's exactly right, Billy. Our sports, it's the one thing that they do not have. So back in the day, it feels like rich people were just cool being rich, and now they also want to be cool.

[Billy Rutledge]

That's tough. Watching Tiktoks and Instagrams all day.

[Matt Jones]

If you had that kind of money, would you want to. Would you want.

[Billy Rutledge]

I wouldn't care. I wouldn't care dealing with my things.

[Matt Jones]

You do not. I would not need. If I make like, a little bit more money, I'm ready to be done.

[Billy Rutledge]

Oh, now you're thinking about how much.

[Matt Jones]

Elon Musk is worth. He's, I think I saw, worth $430 billion.

[Billy Rutledge]

Wow.

[Matt Jones]

It's like, dude, I mean, he tweets at 3:30 in the morning. It's like, do you not just want to go to bed and hang out?

[Billy Rutledge]

He may have a mind that never goes to sleep.

[Matt Jones]

He's online too much, right? He's online way too much.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, yeah. Him buying Twitter, you know, a platform for terrible freedom of speech, Matt.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, but he doesn't believe in that.

[Billy Rutledge]

He lets the box run wild.

[Matt Jones]

One thing the right and the left are the same on. They say they're for freedom of speech. They're lying.

[Billy Rutledge]

They're not.

[Matt Jones]

Both sides are lying. No, but they're not true. First Amendment people have no party to. No. Did you. I mean, I saw Trump said if anyone protests his speech, his parade on Saturday, they will be arrested.

[Billy Rutledge]

Oh, you can't. I did that. Can't arrest peace, peaceful protesters.

[Matt Jones]

Well, you can't unless somebody stops them. Like, what if he does? Who's going to stop him?

[Billy Rutledge]

I don't know, the judicial system?

[Matt Jones]

Well, they probably will, but then they'll have already been in jail. Yeah, I mean, nobody really believe, like, Elon Musk doesn't really believe in the First Amendment. He bans accounts that, that don't criticize him. That criticize him. Which, by the way, if I own Twitter, I would do too. But that doesn't mean you believe in the First Amendment. Andy Beshear, you think he the next candidate. So it's looking to me like Andy Beshear is going to run for president. Which is, which is amazing to me because when I, I've known Andy Beshear for a long time, I used to say he was like vanilla ice cream without sprinkles.

[Billy Rutledge]

Oh, come on. I mean, I, I get what you're getting at.

[Matt Jones]

Why are you laughing at that?

[Billy Rutledge]

Without the sprinkles.

[Matt Jones]

Without the sprinkles. What about him is sprinkles? He wears quarter vest or quarter zips. He's got the hair that is, you know, and he's very nice. But when's the, When's the last time Andy Beshear made you laugh?

[Billy Rutledge]

Probably when he called out Tupac Shakur for not.

[Matt Jones]

He called out Tupac Shakur. Tupac's been dead for 30 years.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. Yeah, it was During COVID if you remember that he did those weekly or daily briefings, and he was Tupac. It was. It was something like, he hasn't collected his money or he's. He's done something. And they flashed his name several times.

[Matt Jones]

Because there was a. No, that was because there was a real person named Tupac Shakur.

[Billy Rutledge]

And it was a real person. And he laughed at it. And he was like, oh, we got a jokester here, or something like that. And the next day he was like, there is a real person named Tupac Shakur. But.

[Matt Jones]

Well, I was the one that never thought that Andy Beshear could run for president. But I do think that he's done a pretty good job. Like, when I watch his interviews now, I think he's better than he was. I don't think he can get the nomination because. No, because I think the Democratic Party does not reward moderates. I don't think the Republicans do either, but specifically in the context of the primary. So part of our problem in America is the political incentives are not to go after people that are moderate. Like, think about it. Most issues, we act like there's two positions, right? You're either pro this or anti this. But most people are in the middle. Right? But when you vote in a primary, it's the extremes that vote. And I don't. You know, you go vote to a Democratic primary, who tends to show up? The people who care the most. And the people who care the most tend to be the most liberal. Right? Yeah, Same thing on the Republican side. Who shows up? The maga Be.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, the right wing.

[Matt Jones]

And so I think it's hard for Andy because, like, how is he going to be the person who gets those far left people? I may have told you the story, but when I was thinking about running for Senate, I went to Louisville. So I went to this group and I said, I want you to find the most liberal people in Louisville.

[Billy Rutledge]

Okay?

[Matt Jones]

And I want you to put them in a room with me and let them ask me questions. True story. So I went down in Louisville to this facility, and There were about 75 people there, and they represented all of Louisville's liberal interest groups. Some of you all might even be listening right now. If you were in that room, you can acknowledge it went terrible for me. No, Billy, they grilled you. These people yelled at me. They yelled at me. And to be fair, I started getting mad back at them in this thing where I'm trying to convince them to like me. I was, like, arguing with them because they were sitting there Saying to me, well, what's your position on this? Well, it should be this. And I. Coal. They were big about coal.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

They wanted me to say that coal should go away. And I kept saying, I'm not going to say that. I don't believe coal should go away. My people in eastern Kentucky, that's what sustains our economy. I'm not going to say. And then they were like, but it kills the environment. And I said, well, I'm. By the way, I can't. First of all, I don't believe it should go away. And secondly, I can't go into eastern Kentucky and tell all these people I'm going to take their jobs. You think I'm going to win if I do that?

[Billy Rutledge]

Not if you want to stay true to yourself. You're not going to do that. No.

[Matt Jones]

And they just yelled at me. And next thing you know, like, I'm getting worked up, as you've seen me do often. And it hit me like, I don't know if I can run because I don't know if I could win a Democratic primary.

[Billy Rutledge]

So was it they couldn't find common ground with you, or they were so worked up on their extreme issues and thoughts that they couldn't see.

[Matt Jones]

I think the Democratic Party, when it comes to the primary, the interest groups, okay. So the people who feel really strongly about an issue have way more authority. Does that. So, like, when you talk about education, if there's an education bill, who feels the strongest about education? Usually it's the teachers unions.

[Billy Rutledge]

Okay.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I can see that because it's their job. And I generally agree with the teachers unions. But the thing is, if you have a position that's different than the teachers union, you're in trouble because you're not on that. Because they care the most. Now magnify that to everything. The people that care the most, and they tend to be the most extreme. So it led to the Democratic Party, for instance, taking the position in 2024 that you should be able to be transgender and play sports.

[Billy Rutledge]

Right.

[Matt Jones]

That was an. To me, that's an extreme position. But it got to the point that the party couldn't articulate a different position than that.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. It's almost like the extreme views of the left became the basis of.

[Matt Jones]

And the people on the right, like the Clay Travis's of the world, they magnify that because they want that to be who it is.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

And by the way, the Republicans do the same thing. We were talking about illegal immigrants. I don't think most Americans want all 30 million people deported. They do not want their local Mexican restaurant closed.

[Billy Rutledge]

That's the one thing you better not take away.

[Matt Jones]

No, but they will. Cause a lot of people that work there are going to be illegal immigrants.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. There's not a lot of left leaning political talk shows either, right? I mean, what is the biggest left.

[Matt Jones]

Leaning political talk show?

[Billy Rutledge]

Okay, so PR and that got defunct.

[Matt Jones]

That's not a. That's Rachel Maddow on. That's on television.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. Radio. I don't even know.

[Matt Jones]

Do you think. Is there any voice on WH in Louisville besides the one you're hearing right now that leans left?

[Billy Rutledge]

Maybe Nick Coffee's a little bit.

[Matt Jones]

He didn't talk about it.

[Billy Rutledge]

No, no.

[Matt Jones]

Terry Miners. I love him. But his leans a little right. Dwight. Whit is.

[Billy Rutledge]

They're right. Dwight is right.

[Matt Jones]

Tony has become right. Didn't used to be, but kind of has become right. Clay and Buck.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, there's.

[Matt Jones]

And then don't even start when you go into the nighttime.

[Billy Rutledge]

Glenn Beck. Gosh, I don't know who's in the Alien show.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, you got, well, Glenn Beck and the Alien show. Basically the same thing.

[Billy Rutledge]

Oh.

[Matt Jones]

So my point is just like the right wing dominates radio. What are the biggest podcasts now? Joe Rogan.

[Billy Rutledge]

That's true.

[Matt Jones]

The. Oh, right.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. I mean, even like Shane Gillis has. I feel like, I feel like he's.

[Matt Jones]

A little more moderate. Like, I think he's more about being funny than he is about being right wing.

[Billy Rutledge]

I definitely agree with that.

[Matt Jones]

You know, whereas I think Rogan is more about being right wing than he is about being funny.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, the right wing has a lot of them.

[Matt Jones]

Ben Shapiro, Charlie, Kurt, Tim Pool.

[Billy Rutledge]

I mean, Tim Pool.

[Matt Jones]

That dude wears a beat. That's a guy.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, all the time.

[Matt Jones]

When's the last time you seen him?

[Billy Rutledge]

I mean, the left has Howard Stern. I mean, he's carrying a.

[Matt Jones]

When's the last time you listen to Howard Stern?

[Billy Rutledge]

Just in clips.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I mean, Howard Stern. I love Howard Stern, but I. I love you. I haven't listened to him in 30 years.

[Billy Rutledge]

Are you that voice?

[Matt Jones]

No, no, because I, I. But my point is just to say the incentive structure is to always be, like, the reason Clay, Travis and Buck have success. Have you ever heard them ever articulate a liberal or moderate point?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, it's usually an echo chamber.

[Matt Jones]

They don't have any incentive, though, because the moderates and liberals aren't listening. So the only way they can get people to listen is to be as far right wing as possible.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, that's a bigger issue. We've got a bigger issue when it comes to our structure of politics in general.

[Matt Jones]

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[Billy Rutledge]

Oh, so different. Matt Jones Correct.

[Matt Jones]

Com Matt Jones the code is Matt Jones. It's Cornbread. This is the good life.

[Billy Rutledge]

You asked me topics that I lean more to the right of by day. You mentioned the environment. That's probably one of them.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, you hate the environment.

[Billy Rutledge]

I'm just not for saving it anymore.

[Matt Jones]

What?

[Billy Rutledge]

Just pass that problem down the road. Let my grandkids deal with it. Like, I was full. I was all about it and then I had to drink through a paper straw and I just, I'm not for that anymore.

[Matt Jones]

I hate paper straws too. But you would agree that like, if you don't save the environment, none of these other things will matter?

[Billy Rutledge]

I mean, eventually, Matt. Like, yes, eventually.

[Matt Jones]

How much longer you think we got? You don't believe these people who say we only have like 20 years to turn it around?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, no. Like, yeah.

[Matt Jones]

And you base that on what scientific knowledge that you have?

[Billy Rutledge]

None. Just my tick tock feed, I guess. And my general knowledge of the ice caps.

[Matt Jones]

Are you anti vax?

[Billy Rutledge]

No, I got the COVID vaccine.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. So you haven't gone down that path yet?

[Billy Rutledge]

No. Many people in my, you know, close to me personally may have that opinion. But, you know, that doesn't mean I don't love them or see them as a human being.

[Matt Jones]

You know what worries me about those opinions is what if one day we have a virus where if you don't take the vaccine, you will die?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, I was told.

[Matt Jones]

I'm very concerned by that.

[Billy Rutledge]

When I got the vax, it was under the assumption that we're was going to stop Covid.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. But they never said that. That was not. I mean, I think.

[Billy Rutledge]

I do think you misled a little bit.

[Matt Jones]

Well, that's on you. I mean, it's ultimately up to yourself to. I do think the government, Fauci and some of those people in encouraging people to do it, act like it would do more than it did. But I also think the encouraging people to do it was the right thing because I think there would have been many more people die without it.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, I have a lot of sympathy for. You know, we were in the moment. We were not sure what was going to happen next.

[Matt Jones]

Me totally. Me too.

[Billy Rutledge]

And I don't think everybody has that sympathy.

[Matt Jones]

And I think that's easy in hindsight to say, whatever. Like, it's okay. So imagine you. Let's. Let's say. Let's say they had been wrong about the vaccine in the other way and they didn't tell people to take it, and then millions of people died.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

You think we might have criticized them for it? I mean, I give all those governors a lot of leeway because they didn't know this is the first time we were doing it. You know, I think we probably left things closed a little too long, but I give people the grace because they didn't know.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. It's just unfortunate there's a mental health crisis. I think that's evolved without question, and that has amplified social media's impact.

[Matt Jones]

But it had a huge effect on. I mean, there are studies that say that the kids who had to learn at home have done worse.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, I guarantee it.

[Matt Jones]

Guarantee it.

[Billy Rutledge]

You can't just have. It's not the same learning experience in a classroom.

[Matt Jones]

And I'm a big. I'm like Elon in the sense that people should have to go to work. I don't think remote working. A lot of liberals get mad at me about this, but I don't think remote working on a regular basis is good for society. I think we need to form bonds, sense of community, connections.

[Billy Rutledge]

We.

[Matt Jones]

One of the good things about work, you deal with people you disagree with, which I think is important in this world, rather than just sitting at home and only listening to the people you agree with. So I'm with you all that. But I'm also with you that I give them grace because they didn't know.

[Billy Rutledge]

Didn't know what was going to happen next.

[Matt Jones]

And how would you like to have been the person having to make that decision? They come to you. If you're Matt Jones, governor, and they Say, Matt, do you want to keep these restaurants open or closed? What happens if I keep them open? We don't know, but there might be a ton of people die. What happens if they close them? Well, we don't know, but we think it might save lives. I'm going to lean towards, let's close them.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, but I disagreed with the church's one. Well, I agree with the logic of this could impact the lives of the people that show up and are there. I think the religious aspect.

[Matt Jones]

Okay.

[Billy Rutledge]

So much more of a choice than a restaurant.

[Matt Jones]

So let's say, though. Let's say we end up with a vat, with a disease that if you pass it, the other person dies. You. Would you close the churches then?

[Billy Rutledge]

I mean, I'd want to, but, you know, you can't fix stupid. A lot of times. I'm not calling people stupid, but, like, if you say, go to church, you're telling people it's. It's going to kill you if you show up somewhere and you still do. I mean, there's almost. What more can you do? I guess what more is you shut.

[Matt Jones]

Down the church when we get to the next one, which will happen hopefully not in our lifetime, but in somebody's lifetime when we get to the next one. Nobody's gonna listen to anything the government says. And at that point, you know, I'm a big believer and be skeptical, but you gotta believe in something.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

No, I'm serious. You got to believe in something. Like I always hear people say, you know, I do my own research. Well, but you're stupid. What are you talking about? You do your own research. We don't have time to research everything. I was telling you about how I, you know, I have a restaurant. I brought in a person today who's an expert in the restaurant industry to help teach me some things about the restaurant.

[Billy Rutledge]

Your own little bar rescue.

[Matt Jones]

I didn't want to do my own research. I needed an expert. You know what? The people who genuinely think the way for them to do their health is to do their own research. First of all, doing your own research, Billy, just means you're listening to someone else's opinion. I mean, you're not in the lab doing the science.

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, hold on, I got to go test some of these.

[Matt Jones]

But you know what I'm saying, like, so they'll say, they'll hear a government person go, you know what? You shouldn't. You should take this medication. They go, let them do my own research. They go on the Internet, they Google, and then they hear someone Else, tell them not to.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah. What was it? Ivermectin or something like that. The horse medicine.

[Matt Jones]

When you, quote, unquote, do your own research, you're only hearing other people's opinions. You're not in the lab doing the research.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, I guess I would argue, you know, is the government the authority on everything? Is there not a different opinion by somebody that's the authority?

[Matt Jones]

And I know the government is wrong a lot, but you know who I know is not the authority? Tim Pool and his beanie?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, yeah.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, Robert Kennedy sounds like a frog. And you're telling me I'm supposed to listen to him about health?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, no. I mean, he's somebody with experience. He's trying to change things.

[Matt Jones]

He doesn't even have a medical degree. Wait a minute. Seriously, when you say his experience. Give me Robert Kennedy's medical experience.

[Billy Rutledge]

I don't know his medical experience.

[Matt Jones]

And how can you say he has experience?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, he's somebody that's, I'm sure, more experienced in the topic than I am. And so I default to him as an expert.

[Matt Jones]

How about you default to someone who actually has credential?

[Billy Rutledge]

Well, here's the thing. It's hard to tell who's an expert and who is an AI or who is a bot or who is somebody that is just trying to rile somebody up. For a while there, you heard that voice and you didn't know what to think of it.

[Matt Jones]

But, like, there are a lot of people that feel like you. And that. That does worry me, because there's a lot of people that see all the different voices and they go. They just throw their hands in the air and go, I don't know.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, I do that often.

[Matt Jones]

And I. That's why I still believe in, like, authority figures, because they're gonna be wrong, but they'll be right more than they're wrong.

[Billy Rutledge]

Yeah, I guess the problem is I'm skeptical now. Like, I am not going to just take whatever the government says as fact.

[Matt Jones]

So how are you gonna decide whether to take it?

[Billy Rutledge]

What the next vaccine is?

[Matt Jones]

What you're saying, how are you gonna decide?

[Billy Rutledge]

Do my own research, Matt.

[Matt Jones]

Which means you're just gonna hear somebody else's opinion.

[Billy Rutledge]

I listened to Clay and Buck that day.

[Matt Jones]

Well, that's who will tell you. Or you can listen to the Matt Jones Show. Thank you to Billy for sitting in here with me today. Next week, we've got a couple guests lined up. That should be a lot of fun. I appreciate you tuning in for us every Thursday night or those of you that listen on podcast. This has been the Matt Jones Show. We'll see you later.